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Is it really so bad??

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concreteman
  9/22/2013 20:28 EST

Really? Nearly every post has someone telling you about how you will be screwed out of everything you own. Are Dominicans such bad people? I lived in Mexico for 6 months a ways back and loved it. meet many great locals and really don't recall a bad day there.
Does anyone have a good life there or are you all there loving the weather and hating the country? I hope not, it would ruin my plans for the future.
I have been searching the Caribbean via forums and other reading sources as to where a good place to live may be and have it down to 3 or 4 choices. The DR is one of them. In the next 2 years we will start traveling to these areas to see what we think.
Someone give me some hope please...but be honest.

Thx

Ltindal
  9/23/2013 10:56 EST

just rent for the first two years in different sectors of the country, for six month lease's. this will help in formulating your own opinion. my expressed opinion,were intended to save future gringos from my experience.

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zferrell
  9/24/2013 17:58 EST

I have lived in Paraguay and Ecuador, and for the last almost three years in the DR.

I'll be honest about my experiences. You can take them for what one person's experience has been.

It's quite one thing to visit, and quite another to live somewhere. I meet a lot of tourists in Cabarete, and they are typically enamored with the climate, the ocean, and what they know of Dominicans.

It's also very different if you are essentially going to isolate yourself from Dominicans, live among and socialize with other English speakers, or if you speak Spanish and are going to spend your time, live among, and make your relationships with Dominicans.

I have found Dominicans (and we are speaking in generalities) to be different, even by Latin American standards. I live by two rules when it comes to Dominicans.

Rule #1 - Everything is a lie.
Dishonesty is the norm. I simply now take it for granted that Dominicans lie as a matter of course, even when the truth would serve better. Lying is an art form among Dominicans. You can't take it personally, or because of the country you might be from. They lie to each other as well. It's like nothing I have ever seen anywhere else.

Rule #2 - Everything is for money.
You will be lucky if you ever meet a Dominican where everything about your relationship with them will not be based on money. Even what are very small amounts of money to us, are enough for a Dominican to lie, steal, or cheat for.

I would advise you to be very cautious if you think Dominicans like Americans. They may give that impression, but my experience is that Dominicans feel that whatever an American gets, they deserve. However little remorse they might feel about lying to or stealing from a Dominican, they feel none when it comes to Americans.

I would also caution you to think this is simply the way it everywhere, to one degree or another. In one sense that is an obvious truth. However, the DR is different, if it is a matter of degree, the degree is enormously different in the DR.

It is a beautiful country, it has easy access to the US, despite what anyone may try to tell you, you don't need residency to live here. It's relatively inexpensive, the weather is perfect by my estimation, and the ocean could not be more beautiful.

But it's dangerous to live here.

Corruption is systemic, which means the horror stories you hear about having your Passport held ransom over some ridiculous charge are normally true.

The murder rate is higher than Mexico, but it's almost all Dominicans killing other Dominicans.

Traffic deaths are the highest in the world, per capita.

There is really no meaningful law here. The police, the lawyers, the judges, the entire judicial system is corrupt from top to bottom.

95% of adult Dominicans are functionally illiterate, and that percentage may be generous. It is a very uneducated country. A University degree in the DR would not be as good an education as my daughters had coming out of high school.

Attorneys and Doctors and other professionals normally do not have college degrees before they study law or medicine or dentistry. Anything that is not a narcotic can be purchased over the counter without a doctor's prescription.

It's a VERY, EXTREMELY third world country. You have to accept that.

I often try to tell my friends who are so critical of the US. that if they want to see what life without government is really like, they need to live in the DR for a while. That argument has never persuaded anyone, but I keep making it.

I live in the DR because of the weather, the ocean, the ease of access to US, the fact that I don't have to deal with residency requirements, and because I can ride a motorcycle without a helmet ;)

That's enough for me. :)

lasterrenashomes
  9/25/2013 10:30 EST

OK, I'll start with something good) A lot of personal freedom, reasonably low cost of living when you know where to shop, taxation is almost non-existent as the government has no resources to control it. There are still some honest, hardworking people here and there, but unfortunately they're close to being extinct in tourist areas. Lots of great, fresh fruit, vegetables and fish.
Bad stuff: if you're white, you're not a person but a bag of money to a vast majority of locals. Difficult to have an intelligent conversation with people because of education level. No rules on the road. When we moved here, the best advice we were given by one of the Americans living here was "When you come to DR, leave all logic behind and just go with the flow". We've been here for a couple of years now and still like it, but most of the great experiences had to do with nature and most unpleasant ones had to do with people.

concreteman
  9/27/2013 23:17 EST

Well thx to all who replied on and off the forum. I got several very candid replies from people and I am grateful for them. I will still visit and makeup my mind when the time comes.

Thx again

Kiskeyanos
  4/9/2014 14:44 EST

Wow. That was harsh. I am glad I am married to a Dominican and Puerto Rican myself. Maybe that is why we are treated so well when we visit. When we do go to mainly expat areas you can feel the condescending disdain towards the locals by the expats. It's unfortunate people feel this way about their HOSTS. Remember this is their country you are enjoying.

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Sereno
  4/9/2014 15:50 EST

After reading, thinking and reading again.

I think that all the posts above have some amount of truth and should be thought about. And individual expats will have different experiences due to why they came here and expected. Expectations are usually higher then reality.

Dominicans don't lie, they just don't know the truth and will never admit that they screwed up "It's not my fault". lol. If two Dominicans have a problem and a Gringo is around... the Gringo is to blame and the two Dominicans will make the problem the Gringos problem just because. ?? (Not all the time but I've seen it happen.)

Cost of living in the D.R. IS very expensive if you try to live anywhere close to how you did in your home Country. Cost of electricity alone puts most into financial shock.

NO TAXES? We pay 1% of the value of our properties. They are in a Dominican Corp. to protect our personal assets. We have no say on the value that they assign but we do have a good Dominican Lawyer that helps but then we have to pay her too with the 18% tax on top of her fee.

18% tax on everything. Food, cloths and services.

We ship in items from the U.S., items over $200. can get up to 58% of the cost of the item. Shipping, customs and that 18% tax on all of it.

A new U.S. $45K car will cost you over $70K in the D.R. Gas and diesel are around $5.50 a gallon.

Corruption? An understatement. I'll leave it at that.

Being a guest in the D.R. we follow the rules. Residency, Cedula, gun permits, car stickers and taxes. Many of these requirements have changed and we find that we have to go to S.D. from the North coast much more often and of course pay more fees to keep us as legal guests.

This has been our full time home for over 15 years. We had to learn and adapt. It was NOT easy but we are still here.......... and still learning and adapting. I don't jump up and down screaming like a chicken nearly as much anymore. I've changed to just rolling my eyes and walk away.

And Kisheyanos. Even your Dominican husband raised in the U.S. will have to learn quickly and be very careful. Even with his own family here in the D.R.

:) Sereno

Kiskeyanos
  4/9/2014 16:20 EST

I plan to get my citizenship for myself and the kids before we move (apparently the wife and children of a Dominican citizen man can do this, but not the other way around) is all these rule changes as difficult, as you describe, for a citizen? .

Sereno
  4/9/2014 16:32 EST

As I said in your other thread.

Go to the Dominican Consulate near you and get the current information first hand while still in the U.S.

Don't be afraid to ask questions to clarify if you or your husband don't understand fully.

Relying on me or others telling you what your Dominican husband needs in order to repatriate with you and children is most likely going to get confusing with different/old/not applicable/wrong information.

If we from the U.S. can do it.... so can you. Maybe a lot easier. We can hope. LOL.

Good luck. Sereno

Ltindal
  4/9/2014 19:20 EST

In my previous reply, I stated that there is much more you will need to know, knowing that others in the exchange would try as I did to help you. It is best that you find my comments harsh in advance, rather than being here and discovering the truth, which is what Sereno and I were telling you. Good Luck.

srp511
  5/15/2014 20:44 EST

For the most part you are being told the truth. If you speak Spanish don't let anyone know and just listen and learn.
You are a mark to be overcharged, steal your deposit if you rent and the otheer things your reading This site has much to say dominican watchdogorg others won't

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William Russell's private medical insurance will cover you and your family wherever you may be. Whether you need primary care or complex surgery, you'll have access to the best hospitals & doctors available. Unlike some insurers, we also include medical evacuation and mental health cover in our plans (except SilverLite). Get a quote from our partner, William Russell.
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familyman2014
  5/27/2014 18:59 EST

Is it really so bad? Lots of friendly people, beautiful beaches and women.
But I was FRAMED for an assault that I didn't commit so the "enviados", jealous neighbors, could try to get some money from me and the Policia Nacional are all thieves from the top down and only want to get as much money from you any way they can. It's all about the money man, and you are the gringo target. Most people never have this problem, but always always beware...This ain't America and the police want to empty your bank account.

familyman2014
  5/27/2014 19:03 EST

Touche', this man has hit it exactly. DEPENDING on where you live, it is a dangerous country. When they come to rob you, they kill you and search your pockets. And a gringo American is the best target and it is all about getting your money either by the knife or the ink pen you are the target. Be careful where you are at all times...it looks nice but the Policia Nacional want to get your money...

Planner
  5/28/2014 10:58 EST

You must learn how to live here because this does happen.

I am sorry you have had to deal with this. Maybe there were things you could have done to prevent it and maybe not. Sometimes you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time and I am so sorry you have had to handle this.

For others - live under the radar as much as possible. Be very very careful who you associate with! Don't flash anything of value. Leave the flashing to Dominicans, they know how to handle it.

Yes you learned the hard way some of the biggest criminals here are in law enforcement!

Sereno
  5/28/2014 18:35 EST

Yes and no.

Once you learn how "things" work you work around them. Keeping in mind that an Expat is .... it's not easy.

How an expat enters a new home in a 3rd world place,the expectations, desired living standard and reality normally collide; and do so big time.

Those that have lived in other 3rd world places understand and recognize that some just do not adapt nor adjust at all expecting that they brought there home with them.

Lot's of negative comments recently that has me "shaking my head and walking away" as I have many time for over 12 years full time here and another 5 years before and living in other 3rd world places. geez?

Some of us have a nice life here and we don't complain; we discuss.

My wife wants to buy this. Boon Island Light House off the coast of Maine.

Might be fun and get us away from... ?

YC
  10/29/2014 14:33 EST

I have been travelling to the Dominican Republic for the last 7 years. Most frequently has been the last 3 years or so. On average I typical fly down there twice a month. I have stayed upwards of two months at a time. I recently had an apartment there.

I agree mostly with all that zferrell stated. I have personally witness much of what he indicated. The one point I would disagree on is that the Dominican Republic is a very extremely 3rd world country. To be honest, the DR is actually a 2nd world country. A 2nd world country is a developing nation. A 3rd world country is an underdeveloped nations. Most 3rd world countries are in Africa. The only countries in the western hemisphere that could be categorized as 3rd world would possibly be Haiti, maybe Honduras and Nicaragua.

With that said, a case could possibly be made that most Dominicans have a 3rd world mentality. It could be said they do not produce and export much in the way industrial or technology products like a 1st world country. Most exports are primarily agricultural produce.

So what make them a 2nd world country? The DR has one of if not the most advanced telecom infrastructure in Latin America. Tricom SA and Claro Codetel have deployed LTE mobile services. Tricom SA is deploying FTTH (Fiber to the Home) services in certain areas. Did Dominicans themselves build out these modern technically advance infrastructures. No! They contracted and paid American, Canadian and European companies to come in to do the installation, build-out and setup this infrastructure because their education system are not producing graduates with sufficient skills. Go to any major electronic outlet. You can find and buy HDTV (the 1080p variety). You can even find the latest cutting edge 4K UDTVs. When grocery shopping, I find a wide variety of foods to choose from. I love Almond milk. I did not expect to find it in any of the supermarkets. I was amazed to find it in La Sirena and Bravo (a major Brazilian grocery franchise) supermarkets. Cable TV, home phone service offering is about the same as what you will find in the USA. They are a developing nation - a work in progress. Will they ever become a 1st world nation? That remains to be seen. They still have a ways to go. And in some aspect a very long ways to go.

One major problem I see there which affects the quality of their roads, buildings, bridges, sanitation services etc etc, is that Dominicans have a very lackluster attitude when it comes to maintenance of these infrastructures. They is little regard for the environment. I am not an environmentalist by any stretch of word. I would consider it a offence to be referred to as one. But I do consider myself environmentally conscious, in that I believe in taking care of the immediate and near space the I live in.

So moving on, Dominicans do lie - almost incessantly - to themselves, to other Dominicans, and especially to foreigners. Not all are like that, but many are if they can benefit from it.

As far as the danger goes, let me put it into context based on my personal experience. If you exercise the same caution you would in any major city in the U.S., you will be okay. I have walked the streets of Santiago and Santo Domingo at night without problems. But I was in a reasonably good areas. My apartment in the El Dorado II division of Santiago was in a decent area. I was a gated community. All visitors had to be buzzed in. The units main doors were steel constructed. The locks consisted of 7 bolts (3 at the mid-level, (1 at top and bottom, 1 going straight up and 1 down into the floor). It was a spacious apartment with 3.5 baths for approximately $350/mo. I have gotten on the highway in the middle of the night between 1am and 2am to drive from Santiago down to the capital of Santo Domingo and over to Punta Cana on eastern side side of the island without event. But I stayed mostly on the well beaten path with little deviation. The same as I would do if I was in Chicago, LA, Houston, NYC or anywhere.

YC
  10/29/2014 14:39 EST

I have been travelling to the Dominican Republic for the last 7 years. Most frequently has been the last 3 years or so. On average I typical fly down there twice a month. I have stayed upwards of two months at a time. I recently had an apartment there.

I agree mostly with all that zferrell stated. I have personally witness much of what he indicated. The one point I would disagree on is that the Dominican Republic is a very extremely 3rd world country. To be honest, the DR is actually a 2nd world country. A 2nd world country is a developing nation. A 3rd world country is an underdeveloped nations. Most 3rd world countries are in Africa. The only countries in the western hemisphere that could be categorized as 3rd world would possibly be Haiti, maybe Honduras and Nicaragua.

With that said, a case could possibly be made that most Dominicans have a 3rd world mentality. It could be said they do not produce and export much in the way industrial or technology products like a 1st world country. Most exports are primarily agricultural produce.

So what make them a 2nd world country? The DR has one of if not the most advanced telecom infrastructure in Latin America. Tricom SA and Claro Codetel have deployed LTE mobile services. Tricom SA is deploying FTTH (Fiber to the Home) services in certain areas. Did Dominicans themselves build out these modern technically advance infrastructures. No! They contracted and paid American, Canadian and European companies to come in to do the installation, build-out and setup this infrastructure because their education system are not producing graduates with sufficient skills. Go to any major electronic outlet. You can find and buy HDTV (the 1080p variety). You can even find the latest cutting edge 4K UDTVs. When grocery shopping, I find a wide variety of foods to choose from. I love Almond milk. I did not expect to find it in any of the supermarkets. I was amazed to find it in La Sirena and Bravo (a major Brazilian grocery franchise) supermarkets. Cable TV, home phone service offering is about the same as what you will find in the USA. They are a developing nation - a work in progress. Will they ever become a 1st world nation? That remains to be seen. They still have a ways to go. And in some aspect a very long ways to go.

One major problem I see there which affects the quality of their roads, buildings, bridges, sanitation services etc etc, is that Dominicans have a very lackluster attitude when it comes to maintenance of these infrastructures. They is little regard for the environment. I am not an environmentalist by any stretch of word. I would consider it a offence to be referred to as one. But I do consider myself environmentally conscious, in that I believe in taking care of the immediate and near space the I live in.

So moving on, Dominicans do lie - almost incessantly - to themselves, to other Dominicans, and especially to foreigners. Not all are like that, but many are if they can benefit from it.

As far as the danger goes, let me put it into context based on my personal experience. If you exercise the same caution you would in any major city in the U.S., you will be okay. I have walked the streets of Santiago and Santo Domingo at night without problems. But I was in a reasonably good areas. My apartment in the El Dorado II division of Santiago was in a decent area. I was a gated community. All visitors had to be buzzed in. The units main doors were steel constructed. The locks consisted of 7 bolts (3 at the mid-level, (1 at top and bottom, 1 going straight up and 1 down into the floor). It was a spacious apartment with 3.5 baths for approximately $350/mo. I have gotten on the highway in the middle of the night between 1am and 2am to drive from Santiago down to the capital of Santo Domingo and over to Punta Cana on eastern side side of the island without event. But I stayed mostly on the well beaten path with little deviation. The same as I would do if I was in Chicago, LA, Houston, NYC or anywhere.

StevenBarr
  10/30/2014 14:57 EST

I live in Santiago area, Camp david. I have lived in Santiago for 3 years with no events.
I lived in a boating comunity in Luperon for another 5 years with no events. Life is safe here if you watch were u go and when, I did the same when I lived in Miami. A nice city but it can be dangerous at night in the wrong areas. I live a family life and I am usually at home before dark and up at 5 AM getting the kids ready for school. Private schools can be expensive here not like the US but the cost range in the $3000 US to $8000 a year for kids in the Santiago area. the people r friendly but will tell u what u want to hear, not the truth. gov is slow electric is off a lot for repair or black outs in the poorer areas to save fuel. Poor areas don't pay there bills.
Water is good in most areas in Santiago, I n Luperon the water has been off for 3 years, they shut the tourist hotel down and the water also.
Common areas by definition r areas that belong to everyone but no one cleans, repair, fixes. Look at the condition of most condos and u will see what I mean. Earthquakes are common here. Small and mostly unintursive. Many things are available here at La sirrena (wal-mart). there r some better stores Bravo, and National. There are a few low paying jobs for foreigners if u will work for $100 a week. Medical situation is good here u can buy health insurance if your 60 years or younger for about $60 a month or less. Family coverage is available and cheap. My brother in Miami pays $19,000 a year for family coverage. Medical doctors are vary similar to US doctors, the help maintain ur Diseases. Alopathic drs.
The food is fresher and more healthy her in the dr, most of my friends lose weight in the first year and keep it off. HOMS is the new hospital, my wife and child both had operations that were successful. Come visit you will love it, a lot of foreigners get tired of the 3rd world living in 10 or less years. they get bored!!
by for now

steve in dr

Ltindal
  10/30/2014 19:23 EST

Replying to StevenBarr's post; I will start by warning every new comer to this site to be very careful about any and all advise that you are given by commenters about moving here and living conditions, etc. There's absolutely no evidence that the said commenter is an Expat. With that said, I'm retired from USA and I have my health insurance plus medicare in the USA. I return to the USA for all medical visits and to purchase my medication. The reason for that is, during my first 3 months in DR (2012) I went for a scheduled visit to a kidney doctor at Cedimat (the largest new hospital in Santo Domingo). When making my appointment, I asked, " does the doctor speak English?" I was told yes. When my fiancé, who's a registered nurse, and I sat in the room with the doctor; we discovered that he did not speak English. He also was clueless as to what questions to ask me, as my fiancé told him in Spanish, that I had a kidney transplant 6 years ago. I would have been better served speaking to doctors Moe, Larry & Curley. He did give me a prescription to get filled. The following day, I took the prescription to my primary DR. from Cuba, who opened the medical books and showed/told me, if I had taken this medicine, I'd be dead in a week. Therefore, the other commentor, was correct; you will be told by Dominicans what you want to hear, but it will not be true. Being bored here is an understatement. It's not the place, it's the people. I'm just blessed that I can fly from this place whenever I want. As for the other things, it would take 10,000 more words to explain.

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