Mvisnaw
11/21/2012 09:15 EST
My wife and I will retire in late 2014 and intend to travel, and consider residing in South America. Based on all I've read and heard, the most economical place to retire is Ecuador. I am a little leery of the political stability of that country. I visited Mendoza AR many years ago for a couple of months and have nothing but positive memories. I recognize much has transpired, politically and economically over the years, in both AR and the US, but I really want to look hard at AR as retirement approaches. I intend to avoid BA, would consider Mendoza or a similar sized metro area, but would prefer something a little more rural, either a small community or the fringes of a larger town or city. Very concerned with the availability of internet and/or English language TV. Have some Spanish, but we're both studying to improve. Does anyone have any ideas?
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TomP
11/21/2012 10:30 EST
My wife and I are two Americans who have lived in Argentina, Mendoza and San Rafael where we have a 108-acre vineyard development, since 2008.
In those four years we have seen a lot happen and most of it is not conducive for newcomers, e.g. cost of food, gasoline, utilities, materials, the inability to buy US Dollars, draconian Import Laws, restrictions on Foreigners owning Argentine real estate, the list goes on.
Fortunately you are waiting until "late 2014" so a lot can happen between now and maybe, just maybe, Christina can come in out of the fog and do things that are pro investment and pro Foreigner etc.
Do we like Argentine, Yes? Do we intend on staying, yes?
Do we recommend you come and take a look, yes?
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Jay4
12/10/2012 14:39 EST
I lived in a southern South American country for over a year and I spent quite a bit of time in Argentina and Uruguay, so I am familiar with that part of the continent. I still have multiple friends in that part of the world that I keep in close contact with. I will tell you where I lived after I make my case.
Yes, Ecuador may be a cheap place to retire, but do more research. Being happy and retiring is not all about living cheaply. You have to love where you are living, the geography, the climate, the system, and the people and culture. I have a very good friend that lived in Ecuador for nearly two years with his wife, she is from Quito. He enjoyed his time there and he speaks often about the standard of living that they enjoyed while in Ecuador. He always had positive things to say about the people in general. Keep in mind that while that sounds really great, it is all relative. It depends on how adaptable you are to living standards and different cultures. Yes, you can rent a great place for $500-600 US a month and dine out cheaply, but there is more to it than just the cost of living. Ecuador is way behind the ball when it comes to current development.
Politics - if you are concerned about the political stability of Ecuador, then I would be very wary of Argentina. Look at the transparency reports that are out there and all of the other socio-economic information of the S. American countries. What country is at the top and who is at the bottom?
Argentinians are a proud people, bordering on arrogant, and they tolerate corruption and I never felt comfortable doing business with many of them. I'm not just talking about the politicians either. I'm talking about many of the people that I had dealings with in general, whether it was servicing my car, negotiating a price, trying to set up a rental contract, etc. Why did I have these interactions? I retired to that part of the world for a brief period, less than two years and I thought about splitting my time between one country and Argentina. After spending time in Argentina, I quickly decided against that and the other country was the clear option. If you aren't planning on being in a big city, you don't plan on doing any business with the locals, and you keep your bank accounts in the U.S., then Argentina is a great place, especially near the Andes.
If you want the best place to retire, then look at Chile, second is probably Uruguay. I lived in Santiago and loved it in every way - people, climate, geography, business, political stability, economic stability, etc. The cost of living is higher, but if you get outside of Santiago, then you will find it comparable to Argentina. There are English TV channels in Chile and Direct TV can set you up with the same deal as in the U.S. The Chileno's are a great people, fairly conservative, honest, Christian, friendly, and respectful. They are not corrupt in general, although there are always those people, the political system is democratic and not corrupt, the police are not corrupt, the country is transparent and stable, and the economy is solid. They have billions of dollars in surplus. Think about those things when making a decision.
I only spent a few weeks here and there in Uruguay and although it is not as developed as Chile, or Argentina for that matter, it is a relatively cheap place to live with great people and culture.
Shoot me a private message if you want to speak more about this topic. All the best in your retirement.
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FarSouth
12/10/2012 19:45 EST
I have been here for 8 years in Buenos Aires. Being outside the city certainly lowers the effects of inflation. Sure, come and look. But don't consider moving until CFK (who is the fog and won't be coming out of it) is nothing more than a bad memory or you will not have a happy experience. Chile is a much more rational country.
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Mvisnaw
12/10/2012 19:56 EST
I appreciate your input. I do not intend to do any business in SA after
I retire, but you never know. I've heard and read about Chile and fully intend to check it out. Peru, Paraguay, Uraguay and maybe Bolivia, too. If I had to decide, sight unseen, I'd have a problem deciding between Ecuador and Argentina. Fortunately, I don't have to do that. I've got some time and no deadlines.
Where are you living now? Still in SA?
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TomP
12/11/2012 05:10 EST
I think that one considering a move to a foreign country can be so close to the trees he/she does not see the forest. People make up a country's cultural glue and overall Argentines are a group of fun people.
In our opinions, all one has to do is cross over to Chile or Uruguay to witness the joie de vie dissipate.
My wife and I are two Americans who came to Argentina in 2007 to begin the development of a 108-acre vineyard.
Four years later with 50-acres of grapevines and the beginning of a healthy income we have seen many changes in Argentina and candidly none of them are good; 25% inflation, a severe restriction on buying currency, import tariffs and restrictions, rural land laws that affect how a foreigner may buy Argentine real estate and more. But we still hang in because we believe when Christina is gone it will get better and we truly love the vineyard life for it has introduced us to a lot of people, Argentine and foreign that have become associates and friends. Are we staying in Argentina, yes. Do we like Argentina, yes. Do we believe in its future, yes.
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Nelmi
12/11/2012 05:54 EST
Argentina has gone through a lot of changes in the 5 years since I have moved here. We don`t live in the city and that helps a lot because we don`t have 10% of the stress that people have in the big cities.
My husband and I work in the tourism industry and believe me in the last year we have seen a huge decline in foreigners visiting Argentina. Why? Simply because Argentina has become too expensive. and people are travelling to other countries. It is sad because Argentina is a beautiful country.
In the 5 years I have seen the good and bad in Argentina. We do business with local people and became so self-relient because it is difficult to find people that you can trust, that are not vindictive and want to squeeze every penny out of you.
Many people are looking at Uruguay or Chile to settle.
I don`t like the restrictions that the government is imposing. It is impossible to import goods. Inflation is not 25% how Tom said. That is what the government want you to believe. I have paid in 2008 for a bus ticket from Cordoba to Buenos Aires 98 pesos. The same ticket cost me a week ago 416 pesos. I can give you many examples because we keep record of all things.
Christina will either run this country into the ground or some revolution will make her step down, which I hope will not happen. The workign class is not happy but she cares only about the poor people because that is where she is getting her votes from.
In a nutshell. We have invested a lot of money into this country, time and energy. We love Argentina and what it has to offer. We don`t like the current restrictions,economic climate,inflation or how the country is being run but we stay to see it through.
Interesting, my husband and I went to Russia for 3 months this year and we couldn`t believe how cheap electronic things were over there. From ventilators to you name it! Here we pay a fortune! We asked ourselves why? Why are things so expensive in Argentina?
I hope the information helps but that is my honest experience of Argentina in 5 years of living here.
Nelieta
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TomP
12/11/2012 11:21 EST
I think Nelmi brings up a lot of good points and the Argentine Government has never admitted to a 25% inflation rate, rather it tries to convince us it is around 9 - 10% not the average of 25% - 30% I feel exists.
Regarding Bus tickets, subway fares and utilities etc., the Argentine Government has been subsidizing these for years.
Now that the artificial prices are no longer in effect coupled with 25% inflation a year people are more apt to complain.
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Jay4
12/11/2012 11:39 EST
Again, you are talking about countries that are way behind the ball in Peru, Paraguay and Bolivia. Make sure you spend plenty of time there before committing to a big move. Do your research, Paraguay and the tri-border area is a bad idea for sure, especially being American.
Remember, by business, I mean be very careful with any type of business or transaction in Argentina.
I still spend time in Chile. I was just there in June and July and I am currently working on purchasing a city and country dwelling for my permanent retirement in the future. I currently live in Napa, CA.
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Nelmi
12/11/2012 11:43 EST
Hi Tom,
Reagrding the subsidy I am afraid that only the big cities benefit from subsidies. We live 2kms from the centre and pay 7.80 pesos to get into town. I think we have reason to complain and have been complaining for years and the only answer that we get it that the government doesn`t want to subsidise us more because we are from the interior and don`t pay as much taxes as people from the big cities.
I am referring to bus companies like Chevallier,PlusUltra,Urquiza and San Juan Mar del Plata. As fas as I know they have never been subsidized by the government.
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dirtwolf
1/5/2013 05:20 EST
Jay4...
I am in Taxifornia, just So of you in Sillycon Valley. How could I hook up to speak with you privately by phone... I want to travel to those areas soon...
You have had boots on the ground & have those priceless 1st hand real experiences...
Please respond with a suggestion on how to speak...I appreciate your candid perceptions w/out the rose colored glasses...
Ciao
Ronnie
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