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Banking Concerns

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HunterBourne
  9/11/2014 18:47 EST

Greetings All,
I am new and literally just moved to Buenos Aires from USA (California) 2 days ago. As you can imagine, I've already dealt with adjusting to the new areas, learning the buses and Metro, buying electric plug adapters for USA plugs, and also walking to Central to get the "Blue" exchange rates of 14.5 versus the 8.5? Is the 8.5, the Gringo rate?

I've gotten some good feedback, but my still real issue now is trying to figure out the uncertain banking situation in Argentina. Many people on other Expat sites said I should NOT open an Argentina bank, but maybe open one in safer Montevideo? All of my money is back in the USA and I have to figure out where to move it as I cant keep paying ATM fees and need to get an apartment, plus most banks here seem really skittish over giving anything more than 1,000 pesos through ATM.

I know that there is that rule about only moving $10,000 at a time, but cant you move it all over to an International Trust (like Belize or Singapore) and not have that problem. I'd still need a local bank to pull funds from or does everyone else here just "Stuff it in their Mattresses"

Thanks in advance for all advice,

Hunter

Mendocina
  9/11/2014 20:06 EST

If you do not need all your money at once and your main concern is paying ATM fees, move your money to an account that rebates the fees. You can do this at Fidelity and I have also heard Schwab offers the same deal. And/or you can check with other companies that offer similar cash management accounts.

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TomP
  9/12/2014 08:45 EST

I would leave my money in the USA and maybe twice a year while renewing my 90-day Argentina Visa, I would go to the USA and return with US$10,000.

Think about it, if you have already converted your money you will receive about AR 8.5 pesos to 1 US$. If you go blue you get AR 14.5 pesos.

Now take US$10,000 at AR 8.5 and you get AR 85,000 pesos. At the blue rate your US$10,000 gets you AR 145,000 pesos for a spread of AR 60,000.

The spread from one trip alone could pay you rent for the year.

HunterBourne
  9/13/2014 07:48 EST

Would is be safe to say that ANY American money I'd have wired here either by a bank, a person, or through one of these cash management accounts that they would be converted into pecos at the 8.5 rate versus the 14,5 rate or would I actually be able to,get US dollars and convert them myself at the 14.5 rate? It's a huge loss in value (money) it's freaking 42%, which means I'm giving away $4,200 for every $10,000 I get over here to live?

TomP
  9/13/2014 07:58 EST

Welcome to Argentina!

If you wired say US$10,000 the bank would give you at AR 8.5 pesos about AR 85,000 less bank fees. If you then took your AR 85,000 pesos and wanted to buy US Dollars you would pay ..., yep, AR 14.5 pesos per dollar.

There is a company called Xoom that will give you a better deal but it requires a lot of paperwork including a bank statement where the money came from.

There is an arrangement where you wire, for example US$5,000 to a Hong Kong Bank and if then swaps into AR pesos at about the current Blue Rate and charges about a 1/25 fee so you still come out netting around AR 13.75 pesos per US dollar.

Again, I say just plan of traveling back to the USA twice and year and bring back Ben Franklins with you.

HunterBourne
  9/13/2014 08:18 EST

Thanks Tom. Looked into Xoom and their exchange rate is 12.95, a bit lower. Is this the same Hung Kong Bank you discussed at the 13.75 rate or is it a different bank entirely? I'd if so, do you know the name of the Hong Kong bank?

Also, there appears to be a wiring limit amount of less than the $10,000 allowable amount. Everyone is scared of complying with FACTA. In fact, I heard even Singapore just announced they will now comply with FACTA. Not sure if Hong Kong does or will be next?

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SaintJohn
  9/13/2014 08:19 EST

Argentina is exactly as TomP writes.

The blue dollar and Euro (and Chileno pesos, Brasilian reais, ...) exchange rate is about 70 percent higher than the official rate.

Yesterday 2014.09.12: US$ 8.42 Blue (you sell/you buy) 14.25/14.35 : € 10.68 € blue18.06/18.58

If you travel as a couple and each carry US$ 10,000 then it is healthy to split before you reach immigration and aduana (customs).

SaintJohn
  9/13/2014 08:23 EST

Don't worry about opening an Argentine bank account. It used to be possible some 3-4-5 years ago, but today you will find it almost impossible unless you have residence in Argentina.

If you somehow get the opportunity to open an Argentine bank account, abstain. The government has promised that there won't be another devaluation in 2014, so there probably will be.

HunterBourne
  9/13/2014 08:48 EST

I've looked into the Xoom service and they limit the wire transfer amount to $2,999 as well as only giving 12.9515 so they'll make more money on the spread 14.5.

This equates,to,an overall fee of 11.67%. Is this reasonable or is their a cheaper way?

Thanks advance as I need to get these,funds ASAP,so I get an apartment. Knowing what I know now, I should've taped,cash to my body...lol

TomP
  9/13/2014 09:02 EST

Hunter,

If you brought US$10,000 or less there would be no need to "tape" any cash to your body unless of course you are referring to bringing more than US$10,000 which I totally discourage you to do.

No that I understand your whole story and why returning to the US isn't an option maybe you could open an account in Uruguay but what you need to know is once your US dollars have been wired from Uruguay can you expect to receive in Uruguay USA dollars and if so at what rate.

Also, you mention an apartment, remember many Argentine landlords do discriminate and expect an Argentine co-signer on the Lease and or the full amount of rent paid up front.

SaintJohn
  9/13/2014 09:09 EST

To open an account in Uruguay these days you must have residency in the country, same as in Argentina. All Mercosur countries have tightened the rules in the last couple of years.

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TomP
  9/13/2014 09:24 EST

Saint John,

Thanks for the info but can that residency requirement be met by having a mailing address what we use in the USA, for example a Mailbox Etc. that provides a street address and box number?

HunterBourne
  9/13/2014 10:02 EST

All good points. Thanks. Maybe a bit more info on my situation might shed some light. I moved from the USA 2 months ago, traveled through Central America for 2'months and have now decided that I want to make Argentina BA or Uruguay,my future home. I was going to.sign a 3-4 month lease on apt while I figured it out.

The issue is all of my $100,000 is back in a,USA Wells,Fargo bank account. I have to figure our how to get it here the most cost effective way possible.

So, you can only transfer upto $2,999 per wire from the Zoom service Tom mentioned and now it looks,like I won't be able to open an Argentina or Uruguay bank account. Am I stuck paying Zoom's 12% fee and only doing $2,999 at a time or is there another way?

What kind of fees do those cash management companies offer to wire funds?

Thanks in advance

HunterBourne
  9/13/2014 10:02 EST

All good points. Thanks. Maybe a bit more info on my situation might shed some light. I moved from the USA 2 months ago, traveled through Central America for 2'months and have now decided that I want to make Argentina BA or Uruguay,my future home. I was going to.sign a 3-4 month lease on apt while I figured it out.

The issue is all of my $100,000 is back in a,USA Wells,Fargo bank account. I have to figure our how to get it here the most cost effective way possible.

So, you can only transfer upto $2,999 per wire from the Zoom service Tom mentioned and now it looks,like I won't be able to open an Argentina or Uruguay bank account. Am I stuck paying Zoom's 12% fee and only doing $2,999 at a time or is there another way?

What kind of fees do those cash management companies offer to wire funds?

Thanks in advance

SaintJohn
  9/13/2014 13:55 EST

Your problem is not to wire money to Argentina, that's as easy as falling down from a chair.

Your problem is to either receive the money as US$ or get an exchange rate as close to the blue as possible.

Using e.g. Forex, MoneyGram or Western Union will skin you of 5.8 AR$ per US$ at the official exchange rate of pt. AR$ 8.42 per US$.

I personally would never move e.g. € 50K or 100K to Argentina under the present conditions, IMO a better way to spend them is to buy the Eiffel Tower
from the trustworthy man in the worn suit.

SaintJohn
  9/13/2014 16:49 EST

In 2010 the requirements from Banco La Nación for foreigners to open an account were:

1. Original identification document (e.g. passport) + a copy of same.

2. Your CUIL or CUIT or CDI.

3. Proof of domicile (gas bill, telephone bill, etc.)

4. money.

As you'll notice, # 3 precludes a mailbox - except, of course, if it is one of those mailboxes you can cook in :-D

As far as I am informed, the stricter rules are part of the battle against money laundering.

TomP
  9/13/2014 16:55 EST

The new law is to keep pesos from being converted into dollars that flee the country.
We used to have three Bank accounts with Bank De La Nacion but they are all closed now. Our Argentine CPA handles our money transactions and every time we visit we bring IS$10,000.

MendozaHomes
  9/14/2014 15:26 EST

Open bank occount in Uruguay, not in Argentina. You can move your money without problem 10.000. I recived money of Canada and American in my Bank Account, and I don`t have a problem. I think is the best options.
Tom write about Xoom is also fine.
I know about Argentinian pay in blue if you transfer your money to their US Bank Account, pay cash in Argentina. The same paypal.
Good luck

JerryinBA
  9/24/2014 09:46 EST

It is my understand that one cannot open a bank account in Argentina without a DNI.
In probably every aspect of one's life, Argentina is the antithesis, compared to other countries.
I think that you you must do a lot more research, before you put down your roots.
Are you aware that you are required to leave Argentina every 90 days ?

Nelmi
  9/24/2014 09:50 EST

I agree with JeryinBA. You cannot open a bank account in Argentina without a DNI. You can try but I don't think you will be successful and this I can speak from experience. I have been living in Argentina for almost 7 years now.

HunterBourne
  9/24/2014 13:05 EST

Thanks for all the advice. I was able to find a solution. An investment bank based in New York that has a trust setup in Uruguay. I get full Blue Rate exchange with only a 4% fee. It works out better than XOOM. I was able to find the connection with the realtor who helped me get an apartment.

TomP
  9/24/2014 13:24 EST

Good for you but there are still other possible issues.

If you want to bring serious money into Argentina, e.g. over US$10,000, to maybe but a condo or .... how do you intend on getting the money into Argentina?

Are you saying the exchange rate from US Dollars into Argentina pesos conducted in Uruguay would be the Argentine "Blue Rate"?

It appears you would be holding Argentina pesos in a Uruguayan Bank?

I can't imagine if the Argentine "Blue Rate" went up, Uruguay would raise the value of your pesos.

The longer you held Argentine pesos in Uruguay or Argentina the worse off you would be.

You might consider leaving your serious money in the USA until you absolutely need it, who knows in may be AR 50 pesos to a dollar by then.

HunterBourne
  9/24/2014 13:48 EST

It's kept in Uruguay in US dollars. I can exchange out any amount at the current by Blue rate. They only get their 4% fee when I convert from US. Dollars to,pecos when needed. I did, however have to fill out the wonderful FACTA paperwork.....

HunterBourne
  9/24/2014 13:49 EST

In terms of me getting the money into Argentina, I simply walk into the investment bank office in central as ask for how much I want. Maybe I lucked out...

TomP
  9/24/2014 14:05 EST

Okay, now I understand. So of when you converted the "Blue Rate" was AR 14.5 per 1 US dollar you would receive AR 14.5. However, if the rate went up to AR 20 per 1 US dollar you would get the AR 20 and conversely if the AR peso "Blue Rate" went down to AR 10 you would get AR 10.

I am still curious how you intend on bring serious money, over US$10,000, into Argentina????

HunterBourne
  9/24/2014 14:09 EST

Was able to do $15.000 and only take out $7,500 to get started. The other half is their when I need it.

TomP
  9/24/2014 14:29 EST

Sounds like you have it under control, the best of luck to you. Where will you be settling?

My wife and I in 2007 bought 108-acres of prime vineyard land and stood there looking down 1 mile of blanco property asking ourselves: "What in the hell did we do"?

Almost 7 years later we are producing 240,000 pounds of grapes that produce AR 382,000 pesos. And each year it is getting better in spite of Queen Christina's antics.

HunterBourne
  9/24/2014 15:31 EST

That sounds amazing. I'm assuming Mendoza? Which I want to visit. Right now, a got. 2 month apartment in Recoleta and to be honest, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. I guess it's the "culture shock" they talk about. I'm 45 and really haven't been out much at all as,I've been a bit shell shocked by the whole experience. I start Spanish classes on Monday at. Vamos and I'm going to a couple Expat,functions tonight and Friday. I'm hoping these events with like-minded people,will help...I,was so excited to make the move but now that I'm here I'm struggling a bit to get some sort of routine going. Joined a gym today and am just trying to make each day more active than the last....

Katerina
  9/24/2014 16:33 EST

Tom,

Please check your private message. I met you and your wife at an IL or LIO conference years ago. Isn't your wife's name Yvonne or something similar?

My husband and I are planning a trip from Belize to Argentina next March and it would be fun to hook up and see your vineyard. I remember when you had just started and were telling us about it. We moved from California to Belize, so were already missing the selection of wines... Must have been around 2009 or 2010 when we met.

MendozaHomes
  9/24/2014 17:56 EST

Tom
Let me ask you, is a problem for you has AR$ for your production in San Rafael? Maybe is this problem for expat who have business here in Argentina? What do you think?

TomP
  9/24/2014 19:05 EST

You must understand that if I sell my grapes to an Argentine Bodega (Winery) I will receive AR pesos, that's just the way it is.

If I ship grapes to the USA, something I am seriously considering, then I run into a whole new set of Argentine rules and regulations that include having to bring back a minimum amount of US dollars I am paid to Argentina.

MendozaHomes
  9/25/2014 10:50 EST

Thanks Tom. I try to find a opportunities for expat in general Real Estate. I think is good moment to invest, because the next year price is high.

TomP
  9/25/2014 11:45 EST

I agree and don't forget my vineyards in San Rafael.

Check out my web site:
www.lavidabuenavineyards.com

cjamesgo
  10/6/2014 09:02 EST

g

cjamesgo
  10/6/2014 09:06 EST

great information thanks..----if i understand --i can fly into mvd and buy arg pesos at legal black market rates .. then head over to b.a.. arg with pesos... thanks james

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