Garpy
2/28/2017 15:00 EST
Hi All
I've been reading these forums for quite some time now as a non-member but needed to join to ask a question that I just can't seem to find an answer to. (and another question I'm unsure of the answer)
I'm looking at buying a property through auction. I've already placed my tentative bid which was accepted. It still needs to go to auction and my bid could be beat but this is as I understand the first part of the process.
I understand that I can have an agent place my bid for me BUT I need to physically be there in person to sign. That's question 1. Hate to fly down for the auction only to sign if my bid is beaten.
Does anyone know if that is in fact true.
My bigger question is, the property is listed as a LEASEhold property. (It's regular land and a house not in any development)
My realtor says I can simply get the paperwork changed to FREEhold after buying it. I was told elsewhere that only a Belizian can do that.
I'm a little nervous about that. Does anyone in the know have the answer?
Thank you in advance
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terrific
2/28/2017 16:09 EST
You need to know who holds the lease. If it is a government grant held lease i personally wouldn't try to buy it. It is not a simple process to change the tittle, and many have found that they can never own outright that land they purchased.
You say your realtor is claiming it is a simple process.
Land grants are given to Belizeans to keep the lease they have to 'improve' the land within a certain time frame. once improved after a set period the leasee can for a small payment to the government change the tittle to freehold, after that and only after that is done can the original leasee sell the land. If he sells the lease to you it is still government land.
On the other hand it could be a 'person' holding the freehold who then leased out part of his land so it may have to be a subdivision of a larger lot.
But it is always the freeholder only that can change that with the land authorities. How long is the lease on the property for? if a substantial amount of time then you have to decide if you are happy to just buy the lease for x years and then hand it back to the freeholder at the end of it.
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mgammo
2/28/2017 16:18 EST
You should be nervous. If I were you, I would seek the council of an attorney on this one. Emil Arquelles or Estefan Perrera are both top notch and in Belize City. There are ways to navigate the waters and buy land down there but you really have to know all the ins and outs. In your case, I would seek the advice of an attorney... A consultation fee is only 250.00 Blz......it would be well worth it...
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bobbyveee
2/28/2017 18:03 EST
Dont buy anything unless youve seen it are there to buy and have had run by an attorney and even that doesnt mean you own it. Belize is over run by scams and the gov. is as bent as a dog's hind leg. unless you own outright with all the correct paperwork walk away, met so many that said they had bought but ended up with useless paperwork, if you want to lose your shirt go ahead. In wouldnt buy from a Belizean , i know that sounds bad we only bought from those that dealt thro American banks and had paperwork verified by non locals. ie banks and others could substantiate what we were buying . But in the end its your money and your risk. Take care and good luck.
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toddwinston
2/28/2017 18:15 EST
..we used Rodriguez and Son land consultants out of Corozal Town. They ran about the cost of a lawyer in Canada in a land transfer ($850 CAD). The local lawyers wanted 3% of the purchase price, which was highway robbery. It was hard not to use a lawyer; but we met with Adolfo and felt it was a safe bet. He handled all the paper work. I guess the Canadian equivalent would be a para legal.
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mgammo
2/28/2017 18:22 EST
BEWARE is right. I have been rooked on a land purchase through a crook's cronies at The Lands Dept. I was stupid. I have had people try to sell me land that was not theirs. I have had people try to sell me gov't owned land. Those deeds and titles can get crazy. I will say again, it is best to get a lawyer....
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Mikxx
2/28/2017 18:32 EST
I would also be very carefull on that one. Definitly get a lawyer involved. You should do wires only into escrow accounts, check if the seller had problems in the past with the courts, the existance of the titel of the property, etc.. The prices lawyers charge can be negotiated down.
Some real estate people advise to hire a paralegal as it s cheaper but that s something I would definitly not safe money on.
As people said here already there are multiple scams when people sell land they do not own or land that is not subdivided yet, etc..
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Garpy
3/1/2017 09:52 EST
Hi
I have a lawyer in mind who has stated the fee they charge is 2% or $750 US minimum for the legal works. They also state 12% GST which I'm unsure of as I though t that didn't apply to "Used" homes.
Do you have contact information for
Rodriguez and Sons?
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Garpy
3/1/2017 10:15 EST
UPDATE.
Hope this is the way to update my original post.
Great advice from many and thank you.
I just thought I better ad some more info. I'm aware of the scams. A "person tried to sell me land last year and went away after I told him it all sounded great and as soon as he gives me the paperwork I'd send it to my lawyer. Lol
Anyway. In this case it's an auction through the banks. I've physically been through the home and property and I have done as much research as I can on the realtors involved. Both coming up as legit and can't find any complaints. Further, Of course I would never commit without legal help. My hope with posting this question is that someone "In the know" "lawyer?" can save me some money before I commit to the expense of a lawyer
.
Sidenote: My realtor stated that after the sale the only difference is that because it's a leasehold the government may re-assess the value to a higher amount and is rare but happens and is usually only slightly higher.
So the only question was, can I actually end up owning this and/or without abnormal legal difficulties.
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terrific
3/1/2017 15:36 EST
I can tell a story that may help or muddy your plans. I have a Belizean friend who is a land owner, a piece of land was advertized for a coming auction one of his sons suggested going to the auction to try to buy it. His fathers advice was go but if you see any of these people at the auction, or any close members of high ranking officials you will never own it. He gave him a list of several Bellizean agents. It is a small population his son would recognise these people easily enough. Asked what he meant his father told him, it is leased land these agents and family members all have enough connections to buy the freehold you do not. If you buy that land it is a lease you still have to buy the freehold which is not a given that you can, and without the right connections it will either be unavailable to you because the government may need the land at a later date, or the price of the freehold will be the same or more than what you pay for the land.
His son went to the auction and saw 3 agents from the list and 2 known family members of politicians. These people were all chatting together before the auction. He put in his bid early and one agent raised it by a tiny amount, Another bid by am expat this time and a second agent raised it by a tiny amount. After a total of only 5 bids the third agent won the auction. That land within 6 months had been subdivided and was for sale as 12 lots, Each costing about the price paid by the agent. My friends son wanted it for stables and a horse stud operation.
Land purchase in Belize is a complete minefield. Maybe you have one of the agents from my friends list and will be lucky.
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bobbyveee
3/1/2017 16:46 EST
I know it sounds bad, but i wouldnt consider buying land or most properties from any Belizean person or agency, only from recognised people outside the country with clear ownership and title and money transactions done thro banks in US or Europe. Belizean law is totally corrupt, they can change the rules anyway they wish and they do and you have NO recourse in any court. You may think youve a bargin until down the road you find the papers are worthless.
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toddwinston
3/1/2017 17:26 EST
,,adolfos contact is 660-7023
I am not sure, buy why not search a property out that is freehold?
Seems like there is enough of them.
todd
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toddwinston
3/1/2017 17:56 EST
..i would ignore that post. Another example of fear mongering. If you are going through an established real estate agent, using an established paralegal (better yet lawyer) then you are well safe guarded. Laws are based on "common law" and similar to Canada. You definitely have recourse to legal action (as long as you did not go crazy and do business with a fly by night)
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bobbyveee
3/1/2017 22:17 EST
Todd you obviously havent a clue whats gone on before or even now about the Belize legal system, its supposed to be based on British law , not Canadian, but its been twisted to suit the powerful families that run Belize , buyer beware as always. You might be fine, but >>>>
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Garpy
3/2/2017 08:59 EST
Thanks everyone.
It's taken us two years to find the right place within our budget while fitting our needs/wants. But of course it turns out to have a catch.
I'm not quite ready to give up on it yet and will have to bite the bullet and pay for legal advice on this. I'll come back and post my answer for the benefit of everyone who has waded in on this.
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belizelenny
3/2/2017 10:32 EST
Auctions are cash..suited to anyone with cash..I buy at auctions in Belize..Bobby why dont you spend more time posting where you live as you are out of touch in Belize...I am am expat and A Belizean.
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bobbyveee
3/2/2017 11:35 EST
Good for you Lenny. But so what , lived there 16 yrs and only left a yr ago, still very much intouch. Trust you dont suffer too much in the impending financial crash.
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Kenubelizeit
3/2/2017 15:34 EST
Buying leasehold land is a no no the amount of red tape youwill go through is a nightmare however whoever is selling will tell you to the contrary. Do not trust anyone a lot of frauds are being committed by expats who have gained a lot of trust particular one that is selling lots that no subdivision has been granted in Corozal waterfront close to Serenity.
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Garpy
3/3/2017 10:14 EST
Hi
Last post on this matter as I think I now have all the answers. Thanks to everyone who helped and maybe this information will help others.
The following is straight from a fantastic lawyer I found in Belize who answered all my questions.
(name available privately)
Can I actually buy a leasehold property and own it outright?--- only Belizeans can own lease hold property . Government grants the lease to the leaseholder even in auctions and it will ask for a copy of your passport
Is this a simple matter to change to freehold.--- no. government must issue written approval of the purchase of the leasehold property. And then provide you with the purchase price details. Once you pay government then it will change property to freehold and issue a land certificate or minister’s fiat grant
Are properties sold at an auction free and clear of liens etc after the auction? --- normally yes
Would I actually need to be there at the auction or could it all be done by my realtor or a lawyer in trust? You cannot own leasehold unless you are Belizean.
HMMM. All this leads me to wonder what would have happened had I gone to the auction and bid. Would the auctioneer/bank have refused my bids as I could not own the property or let me buy it only to find out later I could not not own it and lose my money.
Did my realtor just not know this or Should she have known all that as a professional and then told me, or did she know and didn't care?
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belizelenny
3/3/2017 11:05 EST
All attorneys are good on the phone.. The rest .. well you will see.. Real Estate is currently not regulated..
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bobbyveee
3/3/2017 11:09 EST
Hi Garpy . Well done, but i think it proves my point , be awful careful of buying anything in Belize more holes than a block of Edam
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bobbyveee
3/3/2017 14:09 EST
Lorraine look up gruyere it is a cheese from Switzerland but americans havent a clue about the real name . and its full of holes , bit like ur knowledge lady.
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mgammo
3/3/2017 15:46 EST
My Belizean friend always says, ' Mommy, don't trust your own five fingers.".......Trust me. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure....
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LorraineWard12
3/3/2017 17:20 EST
Hey Bobby, take a chill pill Dude! How does someone go from LOL (you realize that means LAUGH out Loud, right?) to throwing insults over a few comments about freaking CHEESE???
And for the record, I'm all over my cheese's Sport, Gruyere is a hard cheese that when well aged has cracks, not holes....check it out
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruyère_cheese
And finally, this is Brad, Lorrie's partner, so if you wish to throw further insults, you direct them at me. I'll make sure this is the last posting to you on any thread, it seems from most of your posts, you're more interested in negativity than offering good natured advice, and heaven forbid, a little bit of HUMOR!!!
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terrific
3/3/2017 19:57 EST
Well at the auction I am sure the bank would have taken your money. it wold be off their books and they do not own that lease either.
At the bigining you said they accepted an initial bid before auction. The building would have been yours (probably the money owed to the bank is a Mortgage on the buildings) but not the land it sat on.
As i mentioned earlier the lease still needs Purchasing from the government and as an expat you cannot do it without a middleman who is Belize. As I said my Belize friend is not interested in buying Leased land as the red tape is long and
very tangled.
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