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Leaving NYC for SP... am I crazy... advice pls!

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papazcol
  1/31/2011 01:53 EST

Some friends tell me I’m crazy when I told them that I want to leave NYC for Brazil. Well, so now I’d like to ask you guys for some reasonable advice about my plans: I’m Colombian, my wife is Brazilian (BH) both in our mid 30s. We’ve been in the US for almost 12 years but still waiting for our green cards. My wife has a good job in a furniture company, I’m a supply chain professional with experience in Imports/Exports, but can’t get a decent job because my work permit expired, instead I paint apartments, do catering and other sub-jobs. Although she makes a ok money, we still and will continue paying rent for our whole life, her company doesn’t offer benefits such as health insurance or sick days (is legal in NY state), so we purchased a plan because we’re expecting a baby, it costs us $600 monthly. Since her salary is over 20K she didn’t qualify for public health.
We’re quite frustrated with our life, seems like working a lot just to pay the bills, I dream with buying my house, having a garage, parking my car in my own spot and not fighting for a space on the street, having a dog and of course a decent job in which I can use my skills. It’s important to mention that we love NYC, but we can’t live out of that.
So we’re thinking about moving to SP or any other industrial/steady economy city where I can find a good job while our papers’ process runs thru here in the states (5 years). We believe that with the oncoming Olympics things may change for good especially in the tourist and transportation industry.
Any thought is appreciated.

aneill42
  1/31/2011 09:03 EST

Hi there!
The NY area is one of the most expensive places to live in the WHOLE WORLD!
But, if you want to move to Brazil and have some money in the bank rto provide income while you search for a job in brazil, the only place to be really is Sao Paulo.
It's where the headquarters for big companies are, with some being in Rio.
But SP is less expensive.
Import/export is a very busy area to work in and you'll have to fight for a niche.
The coming World Cup and Olympics will definitely increase the economy...are already in fact...but you need something that will survive AFTER that.
Everyone now is looking at Brazil so this is good...and bad! It means the competition here is more intense than ever.
But you are young enough to overcome small reverses...just so you work hard to make sure you have as few as possible.
If you are actually married to a Brazilian, then you should be able to get a visa here relatively easily.
Any documents will have to be officially translated, but you have a Brazilian consulate in NYC. This makes it easier.
You might want to drop in there and ask them about your documents.
You will need passports that have more than 6 months on them and you may need a visa as well to get into Brazil. I'm not sure about a Columbian citizen but the consulate can tell you about that.
Any questions please email me at [email protected]
Moving like this is a pretty major change but it CAN work if you have all the pieces in place beforehand
Regards,
Andy Neill
Fortaleza, Brazil
Good luck!

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papazcol
  1/31/2011 21:58 EST

Hello Andy,
Thanks for your opinion. I’ve done some research about moving, as far as I know my wife and I have to apply for my CPF and my resident visa once we touch Brazilian territory. I’ve that advantage in terms of Brazilian papers.
I agree with you too, I really hope I have more acceptance there than in the US. I really love this country but as I said I’m quite upset for my green card process, it’s taking for ever and is not guarantee. Seems that the Gov prefers adjusting status for illegal people rather than professionals. But that’s a different story.
My wife is a little scared due to the violence there. When she lived in Belo Horizonte, she was robbed several times, so we appreciate the safety that NY offers, although that’s relative; Bronx may be similar to the Alemao favela in Rio.
Anyways, I’m excited to go and work things out. I have a question though, I have the feeling that people speaking English take for granted that will get a nice job, but seems that they end up teaching ESL (which is not a bad job) and earning jus the basic. What would you think it’s the best path to apply for a position, someone told me that finishing an MBA, or applying through a head hunter… etc.
Thanks!

aneill42
  2/1/2011 12:47 EST

Hi there!
There are some good questions here.
First, crime exists everywhere and if you have had no problems living in one of the biggest cities in the world, then consider yourself fortunate.
I don't know too much about BH, except it is home to my favorite Brazilian rock group, Jotoquest.
In my coty, Fortaleza, I live in the best area in the city and here the crime rate is pretty low. There is some petty crime to be sure because of all the people with money who live here, but I can walk the streets here at night feeling pretty safe.
A couple of my teen neices here were robbed of their cell phones at gunpoint one night but it was in a working class area, not near here, although I can't say it has never happened around here either.
I have told many people that moving here and living on Reais is very difficult because it prevents you from living in the best and safest areas.
If there is something you can find that is done by computer and your clients are in North America or europe so that you get paid in THEIR currency and take advantage of the exchange, then that is the way to go.
There are English teachers here and they pay you but it's not much and you both would have to bring in the best income possible to make it.
I'm not sure about the VPF thing. I have been under the impression that you can do it from where you are, but I amy not be up on current information.
I think you are right about the visa though. it may have to be done from here and you will need a tourist visa to get in the first time. It gives you 3 months and then it can be renewed for another 3 months.
I think more education is always better but does not guarantee anything unfortunately. Maybe in the future, once you have made some business connections, it would be a good thing to have.
That's about all I can tell you at this point, but ask any questions you wish. I will attempt to answer.

movingsoon
  2/1/2011 15:06 EST

This is going to sound negative, but I'm just telling you info that you need to know.

First of all, if you are having doubts about moving here, you don't want to and shouldn't. Even though you are both from South America where things are different, you have lived in the US long enough that everything you do here will be a comparison. PLUS you are expecting a child-added expense and responsibility.

Get your Perm Visa from your consulate in NY. Its MUCH easier and MUCH faster than doing it here in Brazil. Your CPF you can get in Brail in three days. But your perm visa you can get in the US, with all the proper docs, in a couple of months. Her in Brazil its going to take over a year.

Don't come to Brazil without a job. Have one lined up before you land, or you'll end up going back to the US. Have some savings or you won't last. Headhunters in Brazil are worthless are they are on a different system than in the US. Neither of you are gringos so you'll have a better chance, but you still have to rely on friends, relative, or networking. Jobs aren't advertised nor are they easy. Thats why thousands here are without, even with Masters' degrees. Minimal jobs pay minimal money. Teaching English will buy the groceries, but not pay the rent, bus, or anything else. If you both come without income, you are doomed for failure from day one.

The Bronx is no favala. Crime is bad, but you just have to live with it and be street smart. Blend in and you'll be fine. But also have eyes in the back of your head. There are lots of people without anything that will take whatever you have without any regard to the value of life here.

The Olympics are changing Brazil for sure. In the past six months rent and buying real estate has gone up 20% in Rio and is also affecting SP. Brazil has changed a lot in the past three years. Its not near as cheap to live here. Inflation is roughly at 11 percent right now, and looks like its creeping up. Everything here cost more: Electronics, cars, gas, food. The US is MUCH cheaper in just about everything- we fly back and forth and always bring back stuff from Walmart, Bestbuy, etc.

It aint easy here for sure. But you can make it and I personally love it here. But you must be ready for the change in culture, losing a lot of comforts, and have income. But my best advice is to apply for the perm visa in the US (you can't work without one here and no employer will even talk to you without it), and then get a job lined up before you step foot here.

And always have a plan B...

L2Design
  2/1/2011 16:35 EST

I concur with this last post... I'm so happy to be back in the USA!!! Brazil was a disappointment. I personally know of 6 muggings at knife or gun point in the oil city of Macae. One was a 16 yr old teen expats son that was mugged. They are very racist against gringos or expats. My husband could not get his SIM card even though we had our CPF cards. A car alone costs $60,000US for a small ugly FIAT. Save yourself a lot of anguish.. stay in USA. Hugs and hope all goes well.. im happy to be back in America the beautiful where its a quilt of people from all over. --L

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movingsoon
  2/1/2011 19:04 EST

While I did say a lot of negative things, I also said I love it here and don't look on going back - except to visit!

I know its Rio and not SP, but today's paper said that Rio's murder rate last year was the lowest in 20 years. A LOT more police presence now, and will continue to be up to the Olympics since the world loves to hear about the bad stuff.

Cars and electronics are 2-4 times more expensive, but you get by IF you have the income. You give up some stuff and gain some.

The main thing for the original poster is the job and perm visa... and a full committment!!

kross
  2/1/2011 21:04 EST

Hi there - I just got back from São Paulo today after a months' holiday and to do some research on moving to the city. My partner is Brazilian and lives in SP which would make my move a little easier. My experience was amazing (if you go...check out the Museum of Portuguese Language - very very cool). I will say though it is very expensive in some ways compared to Canada. I was a little surprised but very much in agreement with the sentiments posted below regarding cost of living. I personally did not witness any violence - although I know it exists - there is a very strong police force. I was mostly in the north of SP but spent a lot of time downtown, site seeing, eating in restaurants, and touring various areas of the city - as well as the costal areas of Marisais and Peribe (sorry, spelling is terrible). At no time did I feel threatened nor did I feel that being a gringo was a handicap. I have basic Portuguese and I found everyone very helpful - everyhwhere I went. There is no doubt I want this to be my home. I think the sentitments ring true below. Keep your head up, eyes open but really, it is truly a beautiful city with so much to offer and the people are incredible. I wish you great luck and strong conviction with your decisions!

aneill42
  2/2/2011 06:15 EST

Hi there!
The poster who talked about all the muggings must have lived in a bad place. I've lived in a city of 3.5M for 7 years and have not in all that time heard of 6 people I know being mugged.
There is petty crime for sure because there is a great disparity of wealth, but it can be handled in a sensible way...it's being blown out of proportion by the poster, who has a really negative view of Brazil, and not one that is widely held!
I work with Gringos and tourists from the south of Brazil and his views are not reality for most people.
That being said, inflation is alive and well and running at 10% or better right now.
It's a change from when I first came here in 2004, and of course the exchange has a lot to do with it for people living on North American pensions and so on. In 2004 the exchange with the US$ was 2.85. Now it seems to hang around 1.7, although a NYC investment banker who is renting next door says he expects it back to to at least 2 and maybe more by later in the year.
The Brazilian people are very resilient and it would be hard to out-do them in terms of business. They have street smarts that most North Americans don't have. Someone told me a long time ago that if you start a successful business here, very soon you will have a number of others doing the same thing all around you.
In summary, Brazil is a very good place to live, but it's not as inexpensive as it was 10 years ago...or even 5 years ago.
As long as you think it out and are prepared if things don't go exactly as you planned, you should be OK.

aneill42
  2/2/2011 06:29 EST

Hi there!
By the way, speaking of cars...you can get a Gol, Fiat Palio, Peugeot 207 or other small car for around R$22,000. That's not a new car...they have too much tax on them...buy one a couple of years old, but DO have it checked out completely by a trusted mechanic first. And that won't be by THEIR mechanic!
I also agree with finding out about the process for your visa there instead of here. A visit to the consulate, as I suggested above, is almost a necessity. Make a list of questions.
The CPF is not a big deal and can be done here in a couple of days, maybe even one, and cost R$65.
It took about two and a half years to get my permanent visa! That's here.
Now you will be issued a protocolo after a certain point in the process, which "stops the clock", and you CAN find work with that, because it basically says you HAVE your visa, it's just paperwork after that.
I talked with my American friend here woh teaches for the largest Catholic private school in the city...they have 3 campuses...he is teaching several different subjects now, does not have a teaching credential and gets paid a salary...it's not bad but you could not live on that alone here...you would need more than one income.
He says finding that type of job is difficult obviously, but can be done, with the proper outlook, hard work prospecting and some luck at being in the right place at the right time. By the way, you don't have to be Catholic to teach at these schools, but it would help I'm sure.
SP must have the same kind of schools so pick the bigger ones that can afford to pay salary.
Ask any questions you want. My email is [email protected].

movingsoon
  2/2/2011 14:06 EST

Just to further explain the permanent visa process a little further (been there, done that>

Applying for the Perm Visa in the US: After submitting all the proper paperwork to the nearest consulate, it takes less than 30 days to have their part done. Once you pick up your passport from them with the proper stamp, you have 90 days to enter Brazil. Once you enter Brazil, you have 30 days to register at the Federal Police and complete the process. (Is you miss any of the deadlines, you start over)

Once the FP are done with you, it will take anywhere from 6-12 months before you actually get the RNE Card. However, they will issue a protocolo (a thin long strip of paper with your picture and number) that basically says you have a perm visa and you have all rights. That will let you leave and enter Brazil as a permanent resident. However, some bank will not let you open a bank account until you actually get the plastic card!! Its Brazil, go figure!!

Some consulates may have a slightly different process for the first stage, but they will explain it. Most are VERY helpful. IF you apply in Brazil, you will have a house visit, a few more documents, and it will take from 12-24 months. MUCH easier in the US!!

Your CPF: Walk into a Bank of Brazil with your passport and say you want to apply for a CPF, pay around R$5.00 (not R$65), and then pick it up downtown at the government office. You'll need a CPF for just about everything...it the formal way of identification. You need it for a cell phone, utiilties, long term rent lease, buying property, etc.

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papazcol
  2/2/2011 16:26 EST

ANEILLE42:

We are checking on SP, BH, Curitiba and cities in the south,. I have heard beautiful things about Fortaleza, however I’ve to tell I’m not used to the heat too much. Even here in NY, the summers are way too hot. I know we may have hot summers in SP but the transition to the cool winter should give us a brake. About the inflation, it’s reported in 6%, of course the real one must be around 10%. Very agree with your view about starting a business there, in my visit to BH and Rio last year my mind was spinning with new ideas to start. A good thing that I learned here from the gringos is starting simple businesses with clear mission and vision, most of the multinationals and bog companies started in a simply way; Although I’m aware about the employees’ protection is much stronger than in Brazil here in NY. Here legally any company can fire an employee without reason at any time, that’s why many companies want to settle in my area.

About cars, it doesn’t scare me, I’m not into cars too much so I’m sure about getting a national good car for a good price. Thanks!

papazcol
  2/2/2011 17:28 EST

To MovingSoon: In terms of getting a job, I’m planning to go there by myself before the bog move, I’m very interested to check companies and jobs. You’re right about going there already with a job, I’m taking Portuguese classes but for me the transition from Spanish to Portuguese shouldn’t be hard. Good to know about headhunters! Thanks.
I know crime is everywhere and all depends on one’s care. I’m from Colombia I never got robbed there, when I moved to NY (Queens) I got approached by two teenagers trying to rob me after a month of being there. So I guess all depends where do you want to live and what kind of live you want. As I said to Aneill, we’re putting our eyes to SP, any suggestions about reasonable and safe area there is welcome.
Something that you really would help me with is this: I actually got married with my Brazilian wife in Canada (I spend there 1.5 years doing my masters). We registered our marriage here in NY in the Brazilian consulate. However we were told that all the procedures to apply for the perm visa is due once we touch Brazilian soil, nothing can be done from here. I don’t need any visa to enter Brazil because I’m Colombian, that’s why I guess the consulate told me to do everything in Brazil, however you mention that I could apply for a visa (spouse visa) here and then travel within 90 days. Do you know any site with this information so I can confront the Brazilian consulate, they’re quite lazy and very bureaucratic all, so at least I could show them the real info. Thanks

papazcol
  2/2/2011 17:28 EST

L2Design: I’m sorry to hear you got miserable in Brazil. Probably you missed my point: I’m Colombian married to a Brazilian girl. Therefore our Green Cards are still in process and will take some five more years. My wife works in a big design company, she’s not designer though, her salary is good, but doesn’t allow us to buy a property for example. I work in catering, painting, and whatever it comes, I don’t have work permit and that screws me up. I guess you did right marrying an American citizen as everybody does even though most of those marriages are fake which not your case is. That being said, I got really tired of this place I feel I’m wasting my time. I see Brazil with a long term view, I don’t mind the price of cars or violence, I can deal with that. It’s sad that Obama prefers giving papers to illegal immigrants who don’t provide much to the economy and development of this great country, but turn professionals away and people who cares about the wellbeing of the US. As an example my wife couldn’t get any Gov help for his pregnancy, instead we’re paying $600 every month for a private health insurance. But go and check the public hospitals, they are packed with immigrants who don’t have any paper, education or English, they birth kid after kid for free because they don’t pay taxes and affirm that their incomes are less than 15K to get free health services.
My wife works in a interior design company, very recognized in NYC. However life inside there is a hell, her boss seems to have a peanut instead of brain, she once said Brazil was a continent and talks bad about you guys, but takes advantaged of her business: the company manufactures wood furniture in BR and sells it here 4 times more expensive. So if you’re in the designing industry I guess you know what I’m talking about. Thanks for your comments anyway.

papazcol
  2/2/2011 17:29 EST

KROSS: As I said before I spent a couple of years in Toronto, very expensive city but super safe. do you spend most of your time in the north of SP the city or the satate? If so in the city, is the north of the city a better place to live? I love the rest of your comments seems very positive. Thanks

movingsoon
  2/2/2011 17:31 EST

It was 92 here in Rio today..and SP is pretty much the same.
In Florida, it would cool down to the 40's in the winter...here in Rio, which is going to be the same for SP, the coolest it got last 'winter' was around 55 at night...

Its harder than hell to fire anyone in Brazil. And they get a months vacation after a year besides all the holidays-and I mean there are a LOT of holidays!!!!!!

barzeroti
  2/2/2011 21:10 EST

I concur 100% with you.
I was working with heavy politics in Brazil early 90's even get a cell phone (star tac back then) with no CPF !!, got a 500 Mercedes with armed bodyguard, I was very influent, but when you turn your back to them, anything is good to blackmail you and get you. In Brazil when $$$$ is involved, your life is at stake simple as that.
Laws? there none for US expats, price of life up there RS 100 (Matar pra prazer!) kill for pleasure!. That's it, for anybody who believe that's paradise, think twice, unless....you loaded and your $ are NOT in Brazil, don't show off and keep your mouth shut, then it may work.
Otherwise welcome to hell on earth for the dreamer borke expat!
This is real as it gets !

barzeroti
  2/2/2011 21:10 EST

I concur 100% with you.
I was working with heavy politics in Brazil early 90's even get a cell phone (star tac back then) with no CPF !!, got a 500 Mercedes with armed bodyguard, I was very influent, but when you turn your back to them, anything is good to blackmail you and get you. In Brazil when $$$$ is involved, your life is at stake simple as that.
Laws? there none for US expats, price of life up there RS 100 (Matar pra prazer!) kill for pleasure!. That's it, for anybody who believe that's paradise, think twice, unless....you loaded and your $ are NOT in Brazil, don't show off and keep your mouth shut, then it may work.
Otherwise welcome to hell on earth for the dreamer borke expat!
This is real as it gets !

aneill42
  2/4/2011 14:14 EST

Hi there!
Back a couple of posts, I mentioned the CPF and R$65 in the same sentence...I have no idea why...probably brainfart!
The other poster is correct...it's a LOT less than that. Here, what people do is go to a post office and get an application. It has your CPF number on it but you will still need to go to Receita Federal and show your cods, like passport, visa, birth certificate.
THen the card is sent and it can take longer than a couple of weeks so don't depend on that. Very few things happen on time here. It's not a knock on Brazil, you just have to slow down and deal with it. You learn to build in the extra time after you've been here a while.

movingsoon
  2/5/2011 10:16 EST

Actually as of October of last year Brazil don't send the plastic CPF card out...all you get is a printout on paper!!

kross
  2/5/2011 13:17 EST

Hi Papazcol. My partner lives in the north of São Paulo city. He works on Paulista Ave. While I was there, we did some regular tourist things so I could see the city and be sure I was making the right decision. I have a 4 year old daughter as well so we visited some schools (she stayed in Canada for this trip). She will need a private bilingual school. My partner's family all live in SP area so we spent some time getting to know each other. We also went to Japanese Liberdade, Paulista Ave, the market (bloody huge) and to Augusta Ave. The zones of Pompeii and Madelena (I apologize for the spelling) to see apartments for future consideration. Again, the cost is high but also it is a big city, which is to be expected. My first day I was a bit nervous because of everything I have read but then, my own street smarts kicked in and I was fine. As always, anywhere you go, you need to keep your eyes open - even in sleepy Ottawa. I took the subways without any problems. I spoke with so many people. I believe it was such a positive experience because I was with a Brazilian and he is very familiar with the city and loves it - his enthusiasm was contagious. The coastal drive as well was beyond antyhing I can describe. It is with full intention that I will be living in SP by Christmas. My partner is coming to Canada from May to September where we will marry. I can only say positive things because, well, I didn't experience anything negative. I lived in Toronto for 5 years and loved it. I've been to NYC several times and loved it so SP is very appealing. I look forward to seeing what you and your family to be decide.

aneill42
  2/5/2011 15:25 EST

Hi there!
I didn't hear about Brazil not sending out the plastic cards anymore...Where did you hear this?

movingsoon
  2/5/2011 17:00 EST

It was issued as a press release by the government office that did it. I remember reading it at the time, but can't find the link...

Not sure why. I guess to save a few dollars/reais. Kind of dumb to me...Brazil puts such importance on the CPF number that I would have thought it would be a natural thing to have a permanent card.
But its Brazil!!!

aneill42
  2/5/2011 18:45 EST

Hi there!
I think you are exactly right. I would think they would want a piece of plastic in your pocket you could just haul out...paper seems so easy to "clone".

JungleJoe
  2/9/2011 02:24 EST

I know the feeling , I have had to give up Brasil because we could not afford it any more, with 2 kids at school 2 x 700R$ = rent 2000R$ health plan 1000R$ not counting ballet, judo, horse riding etc.
Brazil has become outrageously expensive for what it offers (no safety, health etc) Just have been told by a good friend that rent has gone up 102% probably since we left about 8 months ago !! You need to garantee at least 12K/month to live ok with a family of 4.
Live ok means similar to European norms.Sorry to give you this bad news, but its reality! A supermarket cart full costs the same here in Belgium than it does in Sao Paulo or Salvador ! Make sure you know how much you will be making before you throw away what you have ! I love Brasil and dream to go live there again soo, but unfortunately it does not look like reality right now, afther living ther for almost 30 yrs.......

aneill42
  2/9/2011 07:09 EST

Hi there!
Are you speaking of life in Sao Paulo or another southern city?
I always understood it was more expensive to live in the south than here. For one thing there is more employment there and the wages are higher than in the Northeast, for example.
I think rents have gone up all over...I know we have put our rents up on our properties 2 times in the past year.
But the valuations have also increased. I think you have to own to live here.
I know food has gone up but that is the case all over the world. There are shortages of many things and it will get worse before it gets better.
Scientists are blaming Le Ninia.
I am retired so it is different for me but I know people who deal with tourists and travel is down because most people in Europe or North america seem to have no money now.

JungleJoe
  2/9/2011 07:53 EST

I have lived and have property in SP, but last time I was living in SSA, However school fees are the same all over and unfortunately you cannot avoid them as public school teachers and employees are so underpaid they have no other option but to go on strike, and are demotivated by their low salaries. Safety has become a disaster, last week friends (Brazilian middle class) have been held up (again)at gun point a 3 pm in a decent neighborhood .
If you compare the cost of living with places like Thailand for example, you will realize that Brazil , which was once a destination with a very attractive cost of living ,has prices now comparable to many countries in Europe , but lacks the infrastructure , safety, education and health facilities. If you make enough dough however its a great place to live !

movingsoon
  2/9/2011 09:49 EST

JungleJoe...you are not talking about the general look of things.
I'm in Rio and things have gone up in the past year or so, but not that much. I own and rent out several places and rent has gone up about 20% in the best places. Our health plan, for a family of three, is only R$300-less than in the US.
If you buy the best, yes its awful, but if you watch the food you buy and who teaches your kids in after school programs (sometimes sponsored programs are more expensive) it isn't bad. But we watch our money in the US also. You do the same here...
You don't need 12K to live...

swede1284
  3/1/2011 11:50 EST

Hello

To some points I agree with Andy but I want to tell you about a few drawbacks about living in Brazil as well. At least you are thinking about more southern places than where I live ( I am in Fortaleza, earlier Recife and Campinas SP. If you where thinking about North or "Nordeste" I would definitly tell you to think twice about moving here. First of all, Brazil is a VERY expensive country if you compare income vs prices...All imported goods, cars clothing, electronics are outragously high priced. I bought a harley ( for more than double US price) in SP and I now paying over $900 !!! yearly in vehicle tax. In US I would pay around $100 per year. gas price is double from US. Now the worst I see in Brazil, especially in North East is the nearly total lack of understanding what is right or wrong. The word dishonest gets a whole new meaning here. When it comes to rob, steal, cheat nothing is tabu. Collegues at work steal from other collegues, fahers steal from children, Police rob anyone they can get their hands on, your housekeeper that you took so good care of will many times clean out your house litterally... soon chances are that you feel like a walking bank, ready to hand out all you have, a Santa Claus whom every predator will study with hopes of a quick grab. I can count ENDLESS freinds, both foreigners and locals who has been victims of crime. The majority of people dont even bother to call for police after you been victimized. That would only create more problems. I watched a poor woman a few weeks ago PAYING $400 the local Ronda Police to grab some criminals who robbed. without payment they would not lift a finger. I live in a 5 star condominium and 75 yards from the condo gates small children RENT handguns to go out and rob tourists and foreigners...What I am trying to tell you here is simply, the crime is out of control. I have lived in 5 countries including Asia, Europa, Caribbean and nothing compare to what I seen these 5 years in Brazil. There is some positive things with living in Brazil but to bring my children here to this insecurity and fear, very expensive private schhols of poor quality, no... sorry. Needless to say, I am leaving Brazil, most of all for the thoughts of my wife and 2 children's safety. To me, just a piece of safety and security, to not have to worry when I go to the ATM or parking lot, to know that I can let the kids out playing and be safe, this is worth more than anything else. If I had a lot of money and could live in a secure fortress with walls, armored car and armed guards and not worry about living on a Brazillian salary, welll maybe, but then again, what life would this be. Dont get me wrong, there is many wonderful people in Brazil but I know that nobody in his right mind would disagree when I say, Brazil is dangerous, very dangerous place to be. I suspect that your Brazillian wife would recognize some of this words. Now if you have desided to come to Brazil no matter what, try areas in the south where some civilization exists and work ethics and standards are slightly better.

I also want to mention that I am NOT a person known to be scared or worried. I have been working in war zones such as Iraq !! I just have responsibilty for my family. Their security comes before anything.

Good luck and all the best

Stefan

aneill42
  3/1/2011 15:47 EST

Hi there!
Swede, if you are in Fortaleza, why don't you give me a call. I'd like to sit down and visit with you one afternoon or on a weekend.
Please email and I'll give you my call number. The email is [email protected].

papazcol
  3/1/2011 20:42 EST

Oi meninos,

Thanks Swede & Andy for your comments, Yes, I know about the safety issues, my wife faced few pickpockets' thefts during her childhood in BH. As far as cost of life, it seems that everything in everywhere is going up, here in NY food and taxes are slowly rising as we speak, so that's a general problem in the world, the dollar price is worthless now.

I think we are going to take a trip maybe in July-August and I'll stay there for a month or so to check things around.

By the way, do you guys know what do I need to open a bank account? any good bank to make transactions between the US and BR?

Thanks,

PA

aneill42
  3/1/2011 20:53 EST

Hi there!
The best way to handle getting money here is to have a debit card and use that on your US account. You have to cautious where you use your card but that's the best way to handle getting money here.
You can use Western Union but it's more complicated and might have more fees attached.
For instance, if you have a Citi account or HSBC, they both have branches here so you can go there and use your card without incurring too many fees.
That's the best way...if you don't have an account at either of those banks, it might be an idea to open one and before you leave put enough in for your trip, and then tell the bank where you are going and that you will be using your card in Brazil.
If you have more questions please ask.
Where do you think you might be going when you visit?

kimbo47
  3/2/2011 06:09 EST

Thanks Swede.
Your post sounds very realistic and close to what I have found in other countries in SA. Can you provide me specific info on Fortaleza and its surroundings?
Thanks!

kevin53
  3/17/2011 23:19 EST

I strongly suggest that you move to Chile instead. Do some research on the net about Chile and you'll see why I recommend Chile.

aneill42
  3/18/2011 19:08 EST

Hi there!
What the poster says about the crime situation, to some extent is true...but only if you took all the bad things that have happened to all the people over a period of years and put them all together...
I have been living full time here since 2004 and have never been assaulted! If you blend in and are not foolish, you should be fine.
There is a disparity of wealth for sure and that is one of the main problems but if you live in the main area of Meireles for example, where I live, you should have few if any problems.
I go out at night and walk around without any trouble. My son plays within the condo area but I take him outside as well and I walked home from his private school...which is pretty good, by the way...the other day with no problem.
It's in the eye of the beholder i guess.
If I had been held up at gunpoint, I might feel differently. But that has not been my experience.

aneill42
  3/18/2011 19:09 EST

Hi there!
Chile has earthquakes and tsunamis!!!
We don't!!!!!

lfsett
  7/5/2011 12:05 EST

Brazil realy is a pain sometimes, you have to get used to it, or you won't survive here, but once you are settled, it is a decent place, but don't come here without a plan A & B, and a bank account to support while you don't have a steady job. Remember Brazil is a nice place to live and there are great schools here for your soon, but it is realy expensive and not as clean and organized as USA. So if you come to Brazil I wish you good luck, and I'm pretty sure things will workout for the best. In case you need any tax advise on both american and brazilian tax , please let me know.

chizzoro
  7/11/2011 00:25 EST

The crime is bad there. I know as I was a victim by the boys in blue who are supposed to serve & protect. Never was I stripped-searched in the states at a checkpoint; nor 2nd time had to pay off a traffic cop at a checkpoint to Galeao where he says my int'l license is no good with the rental car. Rental car agency said he is a corrupt cop. Anyway, that is RJ. An in-law moved from Macae RJ b/c crime is bad up there. A friend's nephew got killed by a stray bullet at a beach concert . I am not a flashy guy by any means and I am from L.A. and have gone through rough neighborhoods there w/o a problem but RJ ..sigh....just problems. The good part is I never had problems in Sao Paulo strolling home on Av Paulista at night or Vila Madalena. An Aussie colleague of mine in SP did have his 3rd floor secure apt broken into though. The story is always the same for robberies. Somebody who is an acquaintance knows your patterns & sets the guy up. A American's wife's brother was killed in RJ. The person's whole family was tied up twice in their home and robbed; and that was in Tijuca. Rio is enchanting by site yet distubrbng. IDK, I just really liked the other places better; Vitoria, cities in Minas, SP capital, and even Maringa better than RJ. The people are some of the friendliest you'll ever meet too. Forget RJ.

aneill42
  7/11/2011 08:38 EST

I have been telling my clients at Fortaleza Adventure the same thing for years...go, have a look...go up and have a look at the statue, see the beaches, and then leave! Even then I've heard of buses being stopped on the way to the airport and all the passengers robbed!
Andy Neill
Fortaleza, Brazil

papazcol
  7/13/2011 16:08 EST

Thanks! Yes I know, RJ is a no no place to go.

For now I'm putting my eyes to SP, BH, or Curitiba. SP seems to be too expensive, but rather good market place to work. If in one year things don't work in Brazil I go to my home country Colombia, the economy is getting much better, for sure is safer (in the cities) than some cities in Brazil, and the inflation is under 2%, so not expensive to be there.

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