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Shocking if true Now nothing surprises me.

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soystar1
  1/18/2013 10:39 EST

As you know, I have retired early and I am living on the North side of Armenia.

As I speak Spanish but with an American accent according to the locals, I am still able to make quite a bit of so called friends. One of the biggest warnings that they tell me is the low grade moral standards of some women and men and how they salivate towards single or married foreigner's presumed wealth. It is no doubt based on the low pay rate and all other variables.

But I defer. my recent conversation with a local regarding a new low of values here. I was informed that Colombian men if you they deserve to be called men, will actually allow their so called girlfriend or wife to entertain men. As this guy told me, money is the factor here. They have none; so, they figure if a woman can obtain gifts or money from a foreign man, why not? As it benefits the partner of the woman.

It is without a doubt a new low for even men here if this is true. Live and learn and do what you have to do to protect yourself.

Please keep in my that not all men and women here are that treacherous and the majority are nice people all the way around.

As always,

C

aconcepts
  1/18/2013 11:18 EST

How long have you lived in Latin America??? I am surprised that you are just learning about this and that your expectations of moral superiority according to your standards still exist after living in Latin America among people of lesser means... really not all people are like that but many are. Instead of judging them why not try to understand why they do what they do and then you will find all is as it should be. And why> Because if it should be different - IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT! I am surprised that someone who chose to retire in a poorer part of Colombia is that offended.

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masterita
  1/18/2013 11:54 EST

Most Colombian and women around the world in general prefer men from more "1st world / modern" countries because we tend to treat women with more respect then men from their own countries and cultures. (I am speaking in general and do not mean to offend anyone).

Yes, SosStar1 statement is true but mostly so in the poor regions / areas and certainly doesn't include all Colombians. If anything it is a small percentage that would stoop that "low". But it is not just limited to Colombia or South America. There was plenty of that in the USA and the rest of the world too. Most expats (not all) are from middle to upper income in their own coutnry and never really experienced the lower income living. (again, not all)

There are plenty of "opportunists" around the world. One just needs to look at any strip joint or area with prostitution / call girls. However, most women (excuse or not) will say they are doing it to support their children or single mother, more so then their own husband. Realistically they can make more in 1 night then a "legit" working man can make in 1 week.

In more "modern" countries the majority want their children to be able to support themselves and never need to take care of their parents or family. Everyone should be self sufficient. In some other cultures the children are raised and programmed that they need to support their family with any means necessary. These are the morals that they (not all) instill into their children. But this is their way of survival because prosperity and opportunity have yet to reach their corner of the world.

It is obviously nothing for us to judge until we have walked a lifetime in their shoes, but good for expats to be aware of; so they are not taken advantage of or in our eyes, take advantage of them.

Most of us are not used to this, because in our own country we are not "rich". Here we might be considered "rich" which means a possible chance at a lifetime of comfort, ease and support for them and their family. This doesn't mean the partner you are with, is with you for this reason. It is something just for you to aware of so you don't risk more then a broken heart.

ElinglesLoco
  1/20/2013 07:41 EST

Soystar. Welcome to the human race. Its the oldest profession ever, and dates all the way back to Adam and Eve.

Even when it isn't done for money directly, its done by almost every girl in the world, to try and pick a man for what he can do for them, for the home he can provide, or car, or yacht, or just a good lifestyle.

The fact thay they often have a man/husband/boyfriend/pimp is not relevant in their eyes, only what they can get out of it.

But come off it man, you are not so innocent either. Most men, and probably me, you, and every other guy out there, picks a girl for what we can get out of it too. Most times its just to have a pretty girl on our arm, like a trophy, or some hot chick we can have s*x with whenever we want. Others look for a more domestic fulfillment, like a maid, to cook, clean, wash your shi**y underpants and socks. Or like in the first case scenario, a hot rich young widow, and you end up with a nice expensive lifestyle too.

Are you really telling me you have only just found this out?

aconcepts
  1/20/2013 09:01 EST

Greta post ElInglesLoco - some people think things are the way they should be rather than how they are. People have been marrying for status and wealth and things and been having sex for the same reasons. Soystar I think is experiencing the reality of poverty when he is repulsed that a chick with a boyfriend. husband is bringing home the bacon and he knows how she does it and condones it.

The real perversion or abuse is these US women that divorce their way to wealth, The Colombians at least don't fake long tern love and commitment, They do the deed and move on. US big game hunters dupe men into thinking they Looove them and then set the hook and divorce them. Now that is really sick,,,

Do you live in Colombia?

soystar1
  1/20/2013 09:35 EST

Good observations. As I become aware of more social tidbits, I will post from my Colombian friends.

The next game is the one regarding buying your girlfriend gifts and giving the receipt to them. You guessed it. Swap for money.

I recently met some other men here who traveled to meet some beautiful ladies in Colombia, in fact, they are friends of a friend. This person has informed me that FB is one of the biggest draws to entice men. Although she did not call herself to be a prostitute, she felt no remorse at running pseudo love affair for American and British men. As my Cololmbian friend has informed me, where do you think she got the laptop and the nice furniture from?

This might be some of you and I hope this message will assist you before handing over large sums of cash.

By the way this group of female friends are all teachers in respected areas. As previous writers have posted it is an age old game and is run both ways.

Stay safe,

C

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aconcepts
  1/20/2013 10:22 EST

Lets call a spade a spade. Men have an incredible sexual apatite and women take advantage of it.... period.

It is always the man portrayed as the user,,, the deal is that women use men and always have and always will. But the male ego cannot handle that women use us. Its like when a woman physically abuses a man. He is ashamed to report it because of his ego. Women are very abusive emotionally, they use their emotional superiority to break down men and its never recognized as abuse. Yet when men use their physical superiority over women they are punished drastically.

Who is to blame... men, We do not band together like we used to and we have bought into the idea that having a group of male friends to enjoy life is less than ideal - because women are not involved.

e have come not to love but to worship women. That is just wrong.

Women have been made into the ideal. But its a false ideal that is very destructive as women have become overtly honor-less, Before many women abandoned honor in private, Now they display their dishonor, their prostitute like behaviors openly.

Men like sex but men don't like prostitutes, Would you want a prostitute for a wife? Why do you think that marriage is falling out of favor? yes there are still honorable women but many now if not most use their emotional and sexual advantage in ways that men find dishonorable.

Unfortunately dishonorable women are the majority and men are left no other alternative but to mate and have children with them, because of our need to procreate and have sex.

You may think that I am disillusioned and women will say misogynistic, but the truth is that women are losing their softness and femininity and becoming like men, and then abusing laws set up to protect feminine women, but as women lose their femininity the laws no longer apply to them because they are feminine in genitalia only.

The relationship plight for men has never been worse. Female immorality supported and applauded by many men, has created a small pool of honorable women. We, men, are at fault for this because we encourage slutty behavior.

The way we have handled our need for sex, by approving of women that are part honorable and part hooker has polluted the marriage pool.

This hybrid woman is like genetically modified wheat. Something we thought was improving the situation but later to find it is ruining it.

brson
  1/20/2013 10:32 EST

What a product of muddled thinking! What you'd expect from an octogenarian.

mawdsjeff
  1/20/2013 10:34 EST

I have had "discussions" with my daughter who is half-Colombian, but was indoctrinated at Universtity in London it seems. She doesn't believe in ironing men's shirts, men must do half the housework, and really women don't need a man, they can bring up a child on ntheir own! I think that children need a father as well. You can hear the single mum Traceys, Keeleys and Debbies on the bus in England telling their son "shut up Darren, and don't ask stupid questions!!" This is because he asked her why these buses are one colour and the others are another or somethingt hat boys ask. Here in Colombia, the women don't mind ironing shirts because they want to be proud of how their man looks, and to show how they are looking after their man. Geoff

aconcepts
  1/20/2013 13:36 EST

There is a difference between being a feminist and being feminine. Feminist are not feminine. They really should be called "masculinist" because they seek masculine traits and the expense of their femininity. This discussion has every thing to do with the natural gifts that both genders have. men at protecting and leading. Women at nurturing and child bearing.

The gender blur generation is confused and mostly unhappy. Yes men don't need women and women don't need men. So what! and... how sad that the genders think they have something to prove to each other. The thing is IDEALLY you want a mom and dad in the home because a Good father can challenge the kids to be better naturally (yes all you feminist a woman can do it too but men are naturally better at it) and a mother can comfort and sooth a child better and yes a man can do that but women are naturally better at it, What is the women with large chips on their shoulders and something to prove, Those day are over. Gender blur is screwing up relationships - just look at the divorce rate, When will women find femininity fashionable again, instead of emulating men. Isn't trying to be like a man only proving that men are better than women. If you feminist really believed that women are superior than you would act like women rather than trying to prove that you can do what men do. You can - the question is why and so what! Is it better to have harmony in a home or have a ball busting woman always contending that she knows best and that she's the "man"! a proud to be defined as a bitch! weird world we live in.

Here in Costa Rica there are plenty of educated, economically well of professional women that still dress feminine. Not like Americans that go out dressed frumpy looking man. They also are very aware of their home and family and many live near there office or employment so they can keep an eye on their kids. They don't keep score like two women with their calculator dividing the lunch bill to the cent, they actually define their success by the time they spend with their kids and the happiness in the home - not by the time their husbands spend changing diapers--- "I made my husband change the diapers and do the dishes, now I bought him some cute panties and he is my best gal pal..." what the hell is wrong with you women that want to feminize men. Do you really suffer from such a bad case of penis envy or this this just brought on by insecurity with being a woman and staying true to your yin power, Which by the way and ironically is the most powerful force - but a force that many women have abandoned in search of being like a man.

Now if you have something intelligent to say than please chime in but if you have only snide remarks it just proves that my points are accurate and beyond your capacity to rebut intelligently.

brson
  1/20/2013 14:38 EST

Perhaps we could stay on topic for the Colombia Forum, yes? If you must use labels, style yourself: "Clap-Trap"

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mawdsjeff
  1/20/2013 15:44 EST

WHO ARE YOU to tell us to keep "on-topic"??? You aren't in your air-conditioned office in the States telling people what to do now!
Look, its not supposed to be serious is it this group? Isn't it a part-time interest/hobby? If you start letting the members make rules and boss other people about that is the time for people to get out! By the way, are YOU bossed about at home, and have to be aggressive on a group?? Geoff

ElinglesLoco
  1/20/2013 16:34 EST

Ok, I'm not into fights where it gets personal, so will not interfere. But there is one very important point that aconcepts has made, and I think it should be thought about. And that is that it is often us, yes, we men, who are to blame for a lot of the ways in which we are now being exploited by women.

About 14 years ago, I was very friendly with a girl who happened to run an introduction agency in Bogota, specialising in matching American men with Colombian girls. Now the American men found it easy to fly down for a dirty weekend, trying out all the girls who were starstruck by the thought of marrying and moving to the USA. Yes, back then they were still a bit naive, and believed that the American guys were serious. But it turned out that a big proportion of them were (happily?) married, and led the girls into believing they were single and looking for wives. A lot of agencies even marketed the trips as sex tours (they still do), offering a different girl every night. They were hugely popular, and planes were full, bringing hundreds of men every week to Colombia, simply for sex. No intentions at all of marrying, and of course, most of them were already married anyway. It is therefore not surprising that when the girls woke up to the fact that they were being used, that they decided to turn the tables, and use the guys too. It became common for a lot of these guys to receive letters, "Help, I'm pregnant. Send me some money for an abortion", or even get me a visa so I can come to live with you, or as most of them did, simply send me maintenance for evermore. Of course, I need a million dollars a year to pay for schooling, medicines, etc, and the men got stung. Really stung. Very often a dozen men all got the same letter from the same girl, and they claimed maintenance from them all simultaneously.

How many men do we read from on these Colombian websites that are in that very position .... paying maintenance for a child in Colombia, either divorced soon after, or maybe never even having got as far as marriage. There are many, believe me.

Its called "Payback" !!!

I have a strange feeling that if the girls weren't exploited in the first place, they wouldn't have started ripping off any guy who seems to have a few dollars in his pocket.

On the other hand, perhaps the girls started it by being starstruck about living in the USA? I suppose that was a natural thing, bearing in mind the aforementioned poverty, so maybe we guys taking advatage of them had something to do with the way we had the tables turned on us?

Just something to think about.

aconcepts
  1/20/2013 19:17 EST

Some people do not have the intellectual capacity or the are on the wrong side of the issue to argue it successfully. So they play the "Foul" card or resort to name calling. Both of which indicate a weak position.

I appreciate the discourse and you make some good points about what came first - the chicken or the egg. The way I look at it is that if a woman wants a long term relationship with a man she should not be quick to jump in bed with him

Ah but remember what i said about honor and women?

Honorable women are not quick to have sex. Its called chastise. But men are encouraging this. So is western culture and other factors.

However it is always the woman's choice.

A man usually will not think that a loose woman is marriage material. At least not an educated man.

But mens values seemed to have changed however it is women that exert a sort of checks and balance regarding cultural behaviors.

Men are going to want sex, and traditionally there are two kinds of women. One you marry and one you have sex with, The archetypes are the madonna and the amazon.

One is the lady in the parlor that you value and respect and the other is the woman that you have wild disrespectful sex with

The problems comes when the amazon woman is seen as the madonna. Worse yet now gender blur makes it acceptable for a would be madonna to act out as a amazon. even further confusing things.

I am dating a 31 year old madonna. Lives with her mom and has never lived with a man never married and no kids, and is finishing her doctorate. Now she to me is marriage material. Until if and when I chose to marry, I will seek out amazons to satisfy my cravings. I have no intention of marrying them.

Its the amazons pretending to be madonnas that you have to watch out for, Because of loose sexual behaviors Madonnas are under social pressure to be part amazon. Even if they really don't want to. Sluttyness is seen as normal. Now a right of passage. Sleep your way across Europe kind of thing. Women acting like men.

So its now very hard to tell womens character.

Why is it important that women have honorable character: It is because they are the object of a man's life. Therefore a man will do what he has to do for what he thinks is a madona (honorable woman). But the acid test is the woman's behavior, If she craves sex and puts out easily she is an amazon - no doubt.

They are great for fun, but don't marry one...

I here Colombia is full of them and so is Costa Rica. Its great for fun, but not so great when deciding who to couple up with.

ElinglesLoco
  1/20/2013 19:52 EST

And that is indeed a great contributary factor, of that I am certain. People tend to marry the loose woman because she is easy, and great in bed, then wonder why she is playing around.

"Amazons" are great. Everyone should have one, but are not to be married, for she will always be an "Amazon".

So many men fall over themselves when they meet a sexy young thing, big boobs, exposing lots of flesh, tight short skirt, legs that wrap around your neck, talks dirty, moans a lot, and is a horny bitch, free with it, and wants endless nookie ....... in fact a slut ...... and that is exactly what they get. A slut. Can't really complain when she does the dirty.

But as I said, they are great fun, boosts the male ego and morale, and and every single guy should have one. :)))

Apologies to our many lady participants on the board. Absolutely no reflection on any of you ladies, but I am sure you are aware of the "other sort of lady", and know full well that us mere male mortals are driven by that which is between our legs, whereas you ladies are driven by purer thoughts, ambition and deeds. ........ Aren't you? :)))

ElinglesLoco
  1/20/2013 20:01 EST

Hmmm, that's a point .... we haven't heard from our fairer gender on the subject. It might be interesting to hear some views from them too.

spank12
  1/20/2013 20:10 EST

Hello Everyone,, I was going to sit on the sidelines,, but what brought about all this bad attitudes???? Yes,, by american standards,,I am probably thought of being crazy,but I found a very pretty young lady. I hope for her to become my wife in about a year. I am older but not dumb,,life is a give and take. I will give and I will also receive. This is no different, if I met someone from any country. She is willing to sign a prenuptial here in the states,,she of course could gain some, but stay with me until my death,, benefits are greater,,, just like any relationship.

paladino
  1/20/2013 21:05 EST

Hmmmmm. I don't think that I can be 100% supportive of this simplistic categorization of Madonna's and Amazons. Yes, I guess I am only pointing out that which is said many times even on this forum.... that being 'generalizations are not entirely accurate'. I have known and even been the benefactor of the charms of some very hot blooded ladies.... yes ladies and I cherish to this day those times. For my entire life I have refused to adopt the Madonna complex in trying to pigeon hole women... and men for that matter. I just don't buy into the claim that 'all' women who might choose to engage in sex with a willing partner are somehow ... less qualified to be a partner in a relationship. Yes, I will admit that if a person, women or man, is so casual or entrepreneurial in the use of sex that it is done for gain rather than for personal fulfillment then I can admit some fullness to your claims of Amazon. Yet I personally choose not to apply morality to sex unless both partners choose to apply said conditions. Men and women have been doing 'it' for a million years or so and most of that time had no knowledge of morals nor religion. To apply such modern inventions to me seems short sited. Different peeps have different motivations and investment in sex and I have never found one morality that applies with versatility to all types of persons. Morality if in invention of society and it obviously has value or we as a species would not spend so much time and hot air on the subject. I accept that. Sorry for a round-in-a-circle critique. The short of is that I just don't judge a person much on their sexual needs. of course needs are not to be confused with running a business. AJAJAJ

sensualspirit
  1/21/2013 05:27 EST

@aconcepts - while I agree with you that too many women are becoming like men (already have), I find the opposite to also be true.

Men no longer act like men.

Show me 10 men that you know who are gentlemen & secure within themselves for the most part (no one is ever 100% secure).

You either get men who are soooo insecure that they lash out with their ego, use women ONLY for sex (they feel they have conquered them by all the notches they have on their belts), or they are the opposite. They are the nice guy who's boring, has no drive, is quite content to sit at home & watch a movie OR stays at home & plays video games ALL DAY hiding behind the computer.

And of course they let the woman run his life b/c he's so out of it he can't even make decisions on anything let alone come up with a great night out for the 2 of them.

Where I feel you are wrong, is your theory that ONLY men have a sexual appetite. Most women do too. Sure, there are some that don't b/c of health or emotional reasons, just like there are more & more men who have a failing libido too. Again like you said, you just don't hear about it unless you look online at how many married women seek out affairs. But affairs aren't always about sex.

I agree that men need to bond with other men as friends. I learned many years back from a guy who taught men how to be MEN that men actually DON'T have friends.

Of course I argued with him, but he clarified what he meant by that. Men hang together to drink or go for sports, but they do NOT have good male friends that they open up to & confide in. All of those relationships are superficial in nature.

And somehow that correlates to how they treat women badly.

As for women abusing men, sure, I agree women have been known to do that. Again another man MANY years ago taught me that the statistics are hidden by how many women physically abuse men, but you didn't bring up ALL the men who have & STILL do physically abuse women. And they don't just do it physically, many do it emotionally too.

In this vast social scene of men & women, men actually have the upper hand - why? Because there are more women on earth than men, so a man has a larger pool to choose from than a woman does. Then if you eliminate all the gay men & men who are on the download & are married & WOW, there's nothing left LOL

PLUS, take into account how many men have their midlife crisis & divorce the wife & run off with the chick who's in her 20's. Insecure men can't be alone & take a break after a breakup. I've seen man after man (boy after boy) who rushes from one relationships to the next & YES, females do it too, but they do it when they are in their 20's. Show me a 40-60 y/o who can rush from one relationship to the next.

So women who are 40-60 are left stranded & alone not knowing where to go for companionship.

I think a shift is occurring where more men now are realizing that dating or living with a bimbet who's in her 20's (not saying all females in their 20's are brainless), isn't all that it's cracked up to be & they want REAL companionship so they are looking for women closer to their age so they can relate.

But those men are probably more in the minority as I'm only starting to hear about it more now.

And what about all those men who are divorced & decide NOT to have any relationship (I find this crazy) b/c they don't want to confuse the kids, so they take a break from women for oh let's say 10-15 years while they raise their kids.

From a woman's perspective, more & more older women are turning towards younger men b/c the older men are very jaded now.

They've been divorced 1-3 times & so they paint ALL women with the same brush.

I learned a few years back that it shouldn't be about the age, it should be about the person, but I'd much rather have a man around my age than someone in their 20's or 30's. That's only logical that we would mesh more.

I used to be an ageist before, but I then realized that I shouldn't put limitations on the person who may be perfect for me in every other way.

It's a shame that society in general has reached this point.

Before, women were stuck at home & treated like 2nd class citizens.

Now women work so hard to bring home the money AND raise the family.

Not that fathers aren't doing this way more now too, but I think women just feel the pressure a lot more.

I think the only time a man REALLY feels it is when he's a single dad.

And men don't know which way is up, so they are totally lost on what they should be like as a modern man.

I personally can't stand weak men & I DON'T mean men who cry as that's a sign of strength, I'm talking men who are just wusses.

As I always say, it takes a village to raise a child. We've lost that whole dynamic with broken home after broken home that affects NOT just the children, but the adults/parents too, so here we are, just one f*cked up society.

That's why if I could find an Intentional/Eco Village I felt comfortable with, I'd move there. Not b/c I have children or want them anymore, but b/c of the feeling of unity within a small family type area.

Sorry for the long post.


Michelle

sensualspirit
  1/21/2013 05:43 EST

@aconcepts - Oh boy, you REALLY triggered me with this one.

I know that most men don't admit to this way of thinking, but they still do think this way & it's TERRIBLE. This is probably one of the reasons for the state of how things are that you hate so much.

Why should a man get to go around having sex & yet if a woman shows interest in sex she's a slut.

This is called HYPOCRISY.

I for one believe that men are just scared of women's sexuality & have been for thousands of years. This is why men like to keep women stifled when it comes to their sexuality.

Nothing irks me more than the double standard men play out in society.

So the woman is good in the bedroom & that makes her a WHORE???? LOL, your logic astounds me.

So you want the Madonna & then what do you do. You cheat on her with the women who know what they are doing.

It happens time & time again.

I'm NOT saying I agree with the extreme looseness in society now, but it goes BOTH WAYS. I don't like it when a guy is a "player" & is commitment phobic.

Just b/c a woman embraces her sexuality does NOT mean she is a WHORE!

Michelle

ElinglesLoco
  1/21/2013 07:24 EST

Wow, we've really aroused (maybe I shouldn't use that word) some passionate debate here.

Michelle, you make some pretty valid points in both your posts, but your second post hits the nail right on the head. Yes, its true, that most guys are hypocritical. We want the great sex, and as many bimbos as we can fit in, but we don't want our wives to be like that too. And you know why? It goes back thousands of years too, I am sure, in that the guys are afraid of their women having sex with another guy, because the girls get pregnant. I doubt there is any guy out there who would be happy to bring up a child which is the result of his wife having a fling with another man. In todays (sad) world, the guy usually gets off scott free, and doesn't have to face the consequences. Ok, maybe a bit of maintenance which they eventually wriggle out of, but the woman has to bring up that child and its a constant reminder "in your face" of your wife's affair, that breach of trust, the humilliation that will always be there to humilliate you further until you die.

Yes, double standards, but its probably why we try to brainwash our womenfolk to believe that if a man does it, its not too serious, its what men do. Its simply a matter of broken pride. Get over it. But if your woman does it, she's the worst thing in the world. A slut indeed. A whore for just thinking about it.

Ok, I stress I am not at all like that, and I talk not from personal experience, but I do know how men feel. I am one. We talk, just like women talk. I also hear the locker room chat, and how each man will be the upstanding pillar of the community before his wife, but you hear them in the gym, the locker room, and you'll see how many guys are not at all what their wives believe them to be. I think to myself "Total fools. Gullible.Blind. Get real".

And the sad thing is that unbeknown to their women, the vast majority of men are like that.

I do confess that in my younger days, I used to be similar, but eventually I grew up. I still think "wouldn't it be nice ....." but nowadays there's not many women of 20 who would like to get off with a 150 yr old man. Otherwise, yes, I am sure I would be sorely tempted. lol

chilango
  1/21/2013 11:52 EST

Hello. :)
I am a man who is 45, have a business, healthy, kind, easy going, but avg looking. and really, i cant find anything in USA. when i was 18-25 I had a few dates. but a lot of women want TOM CRUISE looks, and they can pick and choose who they want to be with. When i am in colombia, i can pick and choose from to whom ever I want to be with. the reason I think men go around to many women, is because they are getting attention that they havent had in a long time, or never had. so when they are in bogota, cali, medellin, walking around the streets or at the mall, they get many eyes on the with SMILES. something that DOESNT happen in USA when you are 35, 45, 55, 65 or 75. I love Colombia, and really, I dont think I will settle down with anyone. it is too hard to choose from. And it isnt because of having lots of money. i believe it is that we do have some money to take women to the movies, dinner, laughing, and just being nice and KIND. here in usa, family and friends think these women want to come to USA. maybe 20% is true. but what these women (most of the ones that are going out with gringos) want to be with someone who can take them places and do fun things. if a guy is making 500,000 a month, how can he do fun things night after night? and a woman doesnt want to bring home a taxi driver to her parents. but of course this is my opinion and this is how i feel. I love the attention i get when in colombia and have been over 30 times. when i come back to USA, no one looks at me, says good morning, have a nice night, or just very KIND. :(.

psorensen
  1/21/2013 13:21 EST

@ Chiango

This is totally true in my case I am 35 average looks dated a bit in the states couldn't find anything there on the personal side. Life and cheaper college credits bought me to Colombia and I was treated different. People were friendly would say hi and actually had a real interest in your well being, while in the states not even a hi or hello and I spent much of my time in Bogota a huge city so you can't blame the unfriendliness of the people because of a big city.

In Colombia there is more of a since of belonging to something even if it is just to drink something at a shop after work or lunch.

I don't have a lot of money and I you can tell if a girl just wants to go to the states soon or to buy her alot of things. I never seem to attract those people. I'm the JOE trying to move to Colombia because I am treated better. Yea will buy a house and car and finally life my life in like 3-5 years

It is the little things that Colombian woman do like cooking, caring, and being genuine feminine are what make Colombia such a catch and where I'm from only a good place to work

CourtClarisse
  1/21/2013 15:01 EST

Wow, all I can say is that I am shocked and dismayed by some of the attitudes and assumptions about women that are made throughout this message string. Here are just a few choice examples from various posts:

"Men have an incredible sexual apatite and women take advantage of it.... period."

Quick response to whoever posted the above: it's possible to have a fulfilling sexual relationship that exists because BOTH parties desire it! That's the best kind, and it does exist.

"It is always the man portrayed as the user,,, the deal is that women use men and always have and always will."

Quick response: Guess what? Humans sometimes use humans, whatever their gender! That's not a gender thing one way or another.

"Before many women abandoned honor in private, Now they display their dishonor, their prostitute like behaviors openly."

Quick response: I understand feeling like prostitution, in whatever form, is reprehensible, but why is this talk of honor directed only at women? Doesn't it go both ways? And if prostitution isn't involved, it is not okay for women to express sexual desire the same as it's okay for men? If your answer is no, that's a helluva double standard. We should all strive to be honorable people. And we should all be able to have a healthy sexual appetite and sex life expressed in positive and appropriate ways.

"Here in Colombia, the women don't mind ironing shirts because they want to be proud of how their man looks, and to show how they are looking after their man."

Quick response: Well, that's great for those women - some women really do enjoy that, and I see nothing wrong with that for those who do. But don't kid yourself... not all women like it. Some are just making the best of their own crappy situation and were they to have the opportunity to pursue career goals or other life desires in lieu of ironing their men's shirts, they probably would. As for me, I hate ironing, as does my husband. So we buy clothes that don't need to be ironed - problem solved. We both have better things to do with each other's time than iron each other's clothes. As for your daughter expecting that men should do half the housework, more power to her. It doesn't work for all people or all couples - and again, I don't judge those for whom a more traditional division of labor does work - but PLENTY of couples these days do share household duties so that they can both pursue careers, etc. It's not terrible of a young woman to want that type of thing, any more than it is terrible for a man to want a woman to share in the housework.

"There is a difference between being a feminist and being feminine. Feminist are not feminine. They really should be called "masculinist" because they seek masculine traits and the expense of their femininity. This discussion has every thing to do with the natural gifts that both genders have. men at protecting and leading. Women at nurturing and child bearing."

Quick response: OMG. Do you really believe that feminism and femininity are mutually exclusive? If you do, then you sure as heck haven't met me or tons of women that I know. As for natural gifts, surely you do not believe that women cannot also be protectors and leaders. And surely you do not believe that men cannot also be nurturers. Yes, there are some actual gender-based divisions and natural tendencies. Yes, a traditional division of labor works well for some people. But geez louise, PLEASE stop trying to foist your narrow world view on all the rest of us. Some women are natural leaders, some men great nurturers, etc. etc. Let people find what they do best and do it! If women don't have as strong a track record as men in the leadership area, my gosh, it is because men got a tiny bit of a head start, don't you think??? And if our generation is unhappy sometimes, that's because huge changes - like more than half the population (women) finally having the opportunity to find and fulfill their life callings - can tend to cause some discomfort until the dust settles.

"The way I look at it is that if a woman wants a long term relationship with a man she should not be quick to jump in bed with him Ah but remember what i said about honor and women? Honorable women are not quick to have sex. Its called chastise. "

Quick response: So let's turn this around. How are men on chastity? How are men on jumping into bed quickly? What does that say about men's honor? Just pointing out the continuing double standard. Applying the honor thing to women is dangerous. Taken to the extreme, we've seen where it can go. It's the women who end up dying in order to protect the family's honor.

"...while I agree with you that too many women are becoming like men (already have), I find the opposite to also be true..."

Quick response: What does this even mean that too many women have become like men? How? I certainly didn't stop fixing my hair or doing my nails. I still dance, and I even still know how to cook (although it's not my favorite thing to do and I avoid it if possible... does that make me like a man?). If women are becoming like men, are you referring to the fact that they have career aspirations? Guilty. That they sometimes misuse the power that they have over others? Yep, everyone in the human race sometimes does that, though there's no excuse for it. That they expect their partner to share in household work? Guilty. That they want to make some money on their own and have some money of their own over which they have control? Guilty. Are these your definitions of becoming like a man? If not, what is? If so, exactly why should men get to have career aspirations, make money, etc. and women shouldn't?

I firmly believe that there are challenges to being born female AND there are challenges to being born male. I don't think that women have born all the suffering and men have born none of it. Both genders have their share. But good God, both genders deserve their freedom... freedom to aspire, freedom to make mistakes and suffer the consequences, freedom to think for themselves. I for one won't be made to feel that I have lost my femininity, become dishonorable, or anything else because I have not limited myself to my "natural talents" of child bearing. Now I have to get back to work before spending time with my wonderful family this evening. Thanks for listening.

Courtenay

soystar1
  1/21/2013 15:28 EST

Great banter. However, is time to close the thread. I ask myself how wonderful it is to have the freedom to express ones self openly and without taking it beyond ideas and individual attacks.

This forum proves the passion that each one of us has when we are moved, touched and feel the need to act on a specific issue.

I hope we can always feel that we can express ourselves with out censoring but as long we don't wish harm to anyone for having the ability to have and state their beliefs.

As someone once told me regarding a life lesson regarding a channel that really makes them angry. Their child tells them daddy or mommy, if it makes you mad, why don't you just turn the channel. Aren't kids wonderful.

Love to everyone.

C

masterita
  1/21/2013 15:59 EST

I find most women in Colombia and typically outside the "modern" countries generally stick the the traditional gender roles of the man working outside the house (hunter) and the woman taking care of the house hold (gatherer). Also I am told that most women prefer American men because they treat their women with more respect and are less likely to be unfaithful (as with Colombian men it seems to be exceptable). The fact that Americans typically have more money then the average guy in their country is an added bonus. These qualities also make them more of a target.

But Colombian women don't seem to prioritize looks where most American women do. I actually see many of my high school friends married to girls that wouldn't give them the time of day from the ages of 15 to 30. I think most American women start to realize that they would rather be in a relationship with a stable man that will treat them well then the hot guy that fools around or is immature.

I have also noticed that out of almost all of my friends that have remarried, the ones that are the most happiest are the men that married European or South American women (accept Brazil). Including myself.

Society forces it's views on us all making our relationships more complicated. This reminds me of a great story:

On the 100th birthday of an Amaerican Indian Chief was asked his view of what went wrong with the culture of America. The Chief thought for a moment and said:

"Before the White Man came, young braves went hunting together for many days. Talked around the camp fire and brought food home to women. Women stayed home, took care of the children, the home and prepared the food. Every week was a celebration among the people to give thanks to one another. Then the white man came and wanted to make things better."

ElinglesLoco
  1/21/2013 18:16 EST

Soystar. I know you started the thread, but how can you seriously call time on it, and suggest we close it?

I think this thread has been marvellous, in that it has provoked real debate, good sound arguments on both sides, and has stimulated the minds of many, inspiring them to contribute some pretty damn good and well thought posts.

I look at all sides of the debate, and you can see some very valid points made, some that you would never have thought you would agree with, but made in such a way, you can appreciate the others' points of view.

Ok, the initial post (yours) brought out some great responses, and the thread has taken its own path from there, forging its own identity, and encompassing some pretty good side issues, yet keeping the interest high.

But, and as all good threads should be, it reflects real issues of the day, and I think all who love Colombia can relate to a lot of the circumstances raised.

Yes, we do find a totally different attitude between American/English women, and their Colombian counterparts. In England/USA, a lot of women, as Masterita says, have rigid criteria that any male must fit into, to be considered as a mate/partner/husband. A tight age band, looks, income bracket, type of car, potential for buying a home in the right district, the list is endless. When they find the impossible, someone with every single attribute, they marry them, only to find the man is a pig.

Colombian girls actually take the trouble to find out what is in your heart, get to know you as a person, and its what you are on the INSIDE that is important to them, whether you are 20 or 75 years old. You could be 80 years old, grey hair, no teeth, deaf, blind, and stupid, but if you are a nice person, they like you, and want to get to know you for what you are.

I consider myself to be fairly reasonable in most ways, yet I would never get a second glance from a 60 yr old in England, or even a first glance, come to that, yet I only have to walk down the Septima or a mall in Bogota, and they stop, stare, jaw falls open, tongue drops out, and they try to catch my attention, talk to me, smile, even chat me up, and thats from teenagers upwards.

Chilango, psorenson, and a few more also share that experience between American women, and the Colombian. Such a noticeable difference.

Yet Court Clarisse also throws some useful thoughts into the mix. She, of course, is right in many things she says, although I personally feel her attitudes are more American than Colombian, and so give her her due, but we should also look at it from the Colombian viewpoint too.

Sensual Spirit too, throws in some very useful thoughts. But what I believe this thread has done, is to open up the sheer hypocracy and double standards employed by BOTH men and women, and it is good that they are debated.

So lets keep this thread open. You don't often see a thread with vigour, passion, and the ability to make us dig deep to express ourselves as we seem to have done here.

brson
  1/21/2013 18:35 EST

Welcome, CourtClarisse, to contributing some honest response to this channel, while many have perhaps been holding their breaths. Granted, there have been some interesting insights given on this topic which may be helpful to some. However, gross pseudo-labeling, pseudo-sociology, pseudo-psychology and 19th-century posturing about both men and women are nothing short of insulting to those free-thinkers living 21st century realities. Those labelers and generalizers of the ilk holding forth here at disgusting lengths are the ones who with little prompting would generally label blacks as lazy, Jews as greedy, etc ad nauseum and distract us who value the forum to learn valuable lessons and information about Colombia. If you consider the characterization of your bigotry as claptrap, I am guilty. My humble suggestion (not direction, mind you) is to eschew, not encourage, this negative and destructive contribution and to have the courage to call it what it is.

ElinglesLoco
  1/21/2013 19:28 EST

brson. I will say again that I'm not into personal attacks, and that goes for either party, and I try not to take sides, but I think maybe your reading of aconcept's posts that prompted your initial riposte was a little misguided? To compare his thoughts with racists, antisemitists, etc is a little over the top.

He does make quite a few comments which I might suggest are pretty commonly held views by a lot of people.. I may not agree with all of them, but take just a few:

1. Men have an incredible sexual apatite and women take advantage of it.... period.

Pretty true. A lot of men are like dogs sniffing round bitches on heat. And the women are no angels either, a lot of them using their sexuallity as bait.

2. It is always the man portrayed as the user,,, the deal is that women use men and always have and always will. But the male ego cannot handle that women use us.

Again, its a widely held view that men are the ones who use the women, but the reverse is often the case.

3. Its like when a woman physically abuses a man. He is ashamed to report it because of his ego. Women are very abusive emotionally, they use their emotional superiority to break down men and its never recognized as abuse. Yet when men use their physical superiority over women they are punished drastically.

As I am in the "crime trade", I can verify that this is only recently being taken seriously. It does happen - a lot.

4. Who is to blame... men, We do not band together like we used to and we have bought into the idea that having a group of male friends to enjoy life is less than ideal - because women are not involved.

Some guys are even thought of as gay, simply because they spend quality time with male friends, whereas society expects us to spend our time with girls.

5. We have come not to love but to worship women. That is just wrong.

You have to admit, girls have been put on this pedestal by the media, and we are expected to fall at their feet and worship the most pathetic shallow mindless bimbos, just because their are showing their bits in a tiny bikini.

6. Women have been made into the ideal. But its a false ideal that is very destructive as women have become overtly honor-less, Before many women abandoned honor in private, Now they display their dishonor, their prostitute like behaviors openly.

Again, I can't argue with that. Girls in England, and I am told in the USA too, now think its fun to drop their knickers for any drunken slob who passes by. They all leave school with the highest of their ambitions being to appear on a celeb reality show, and even have sex in front of the cameras, hoping this will give them their 5 minutes of fame. That is the extent of their pathetic lives in many cases.

7. Men like sex but men don't like prostitutes, Would you want a prostitute for a wife? Why do you think that marriage is falling out of favor? yes there are still honorable women but many now if not most use their emotional and sexual advantage in ways that men find dishonorable.

Seems pretty accurate, if you ask me.

8. Unfortunately dishonorable women are the majority and men are left no other alternative but to mate and have children with them, because of our need to procreate and have sex.

In the education field, it is well known that by the time kids leave school (aged 16 in the UK) some 75% of girls have had sex, even though it is illegal until they are 16, and some 40% had lost their virginity by the time they were 14.
I would call that "the majority", and would agree that there aren't enough virgins to go around. Therefore with the male urge to procreate, they will be forced to get with "dishonourable" women, if such promiscuity can be called "dishonourable".

9. You may think that I am disillusioned and women will say misogynistic, but the truth is that women are losing their softness and femininity and becoming like men, and then abusing laws set up to protect feminine women, but as women lose their femininity the laws no longer apply to them because they are feminine in genitalia only.

Again, you can't argue with that.

10. The relationship plight for men has never been worse. Female immorality supported and applauded by many men, has created a small pool of honorable women. We, men, are at fault for this because we encourage slutty behavior.

Agreed, every boy wants to get laid as soon as he learns what its for. So if they all have the sex that they crave for, who the heck are they all going to marry, if they want to marry a virgin? The pool is getting smaller each day that goes by.

11. The way we have handled our need for sex, by approving of women that are part honorable and part hooker has polluted the marriage pool.

Same thing as item 10, really.

This hybrid woman is like genetically modified wheat. Something we thought was improving the situation but later to find it is ruining it.

How true.


So you see, your labelling of his comments to be akin to those racist and antisemitism descriptions surely isn't justified. He may not write what you like or believe, or would like him to write, but he is entitled to paint the picture as he sees it.

aconcepts
  1/21/2013 23:16 EST

Lot of good stuff was written by all… If you cannot add insight to the topic and you are threatened by it, then just criticizes it, debase it, and it will go away. Because women are afforded the legal protection of the laws in the US they adopt this attitude - and do so to men in their face in public. It’s a great strategy to use because it works. Its called the best defense is a good offense. They cannot defend their point of view so they attack others point of view. In the part of the US I am familiar with, if a man spoke to me in the same "in your face' way I see some women talking to some men, there would be a fist fight. Many Western women have clearly crossed the line regarding civility: respect and humility….

ElLoco thank you for carefully considering my points and reasoning them out. My intention is to have an honest discussion, I find that many men are so intimidated by their women that they will not partake in this kind of discussion. They just look at you with their mouths closed while their female partner scowls and shake their head in a "not me" way. Why? Because women can upset the emotional equilibrium of a home the moment they do not get what they want. Another common tactic that is not seen here in Costa Rica. Women here have a sense of fairness when it comes to men and family. In the US there will be hell to pay emotionally for the entire household if mom does not get her way in many cases. So to keep peace men cave. That is sad and illustrates how far men have sunk…..

You want double standard accepted and even enjoyed? How about when a man is kicked in the groin and the sitcom laugh track goes off. First, do you ever see a man kicking a woman in the groin and the laugh track goes off? Someone please answer that question. If women are so into being equal why do they tolerate laughing at anybody being kicked in the groin by anybody else? Men certainly don't find that funny. So to whom are the writers appealing? Women obviously…..

Regarding double standards, some poster address these issues from the point of view that only genital differences separate men from women. That we are equal in every other way. We are not. Physiologically we are different and years of evolution has also created difference, but the progressives gender blur set wants immediate equality and genders blurred to the point of being indistinguishable, do not take this into consideration…..

Also one point that no one has addressed is why are women seeking to be aggressive and sexual hunters like men. Should not women be perusing the art of femininity or should I say the lost are of femininity in the US – and the lost art of masculinity in the US. I don't mean washing clothes and cleaning, like you progressive "change everything now "types always cry in defense….

"Hey this guy wants to keep women barefoot and pregnant, subjugate them." That is an extreme attitude that I do not support. But what about moderation. What about supporting traditional femininity where women support men in a nurturing way rather than compete with them, not as men and women competing but rather as men and men competing. And where men dignify women by standing up for them because they behave honorably…..

Poster have commented how enjoyable it is to feel that women actually like and respect men in Colombia, I can say that is true in Costa Rica as well. However, the extreme western feminist view point is so pervasive it almost obligates women to dislike men and view them as the competition…

Finally something about tradition: "Well, that's great for those women - some women really do enjoy that, and I see nothing wrong with that for those who do. But don't kid yourself... not all women like it. Some are just making the best of their own crappy situation and were they to have the opportunity to pursue career goals or other life desires in lieu of ironing their men's shirts, they probably would." This represent the disdain progressive women have for traditional women. A not so subtle dislike for a women that chooses to find her fulfillment in the home. These women are seen as dinosaurs and alienated by nontraditional women…..


"But geez louise, PLEASE stop trying to foist your narrow world view on all the rest of us."….

I take offense to this. I am stating my opinion and when a man stands up for men women get very defensive – as illustrated by that statement. Foistering on you? Narrow world view? You have a narrow feminist view if you want to plat=y that game. And feminist have been shoving this men are bad attitude down the public's throat for several decades now. Personally, I am sick of it. In addition, "the rest of us?" Implying that your point of view is in the vast majority. That is a case of bigheadedness. A common symptom of the modern women. What I refer to as overconfident and under accomplished. But equally opinionated about thing of which they understand and of thing they know nothing about.

"Are these your definitions of becoming like a man? If not, what is?"….

Becoming like a man? Being mouthy in public, gaggling in groups at the restaurant. Going out drinking with their friends on "Girls night out." Cussing like sailors, being "cougars." Insisting on doing everything a man does and being allowed in places that men feel secure such as locker rooms and specific military duties. Bodybuilding to the point of being muscle bound. Dressing like slobs. Here in Costa Rica I cringe when I see affluent American women dressed like men and Ticas with limited budgets shopping at "Ropa Ameicana" store (used US clothing stores) looking totally sexy.

In Costa Rica you can approach a young beautiful woman and sincerely say "You are very beautiful" and you will get a kind "Muchas gracias" and a smile. Do that to a woman even seven years younger than yourself in the US and you will be flipped off or hear a crude remark, as they hide behind the skirt of the law. Here women respect men and would never say some smart butt remark to a man – no matter what. Why? Because they are feminine. They have no desire to act like men. US women want to act like men. Why is that? What is so wrong with being feminine,

"What does this even mean that too many women have become like men? How? I certainly didn't stop fixing my hair or doing my nails." Reply - That was actually sad. And doing your hair and painting you nails is a perfect example of what western women view as feminine. Being feminine is a behavior, a personality - it is not merely a fashion statement. Western women have forgotten that completely…

Finally, If I was a woman bring up these points I would be seen as a progressive equal rights leaders and applauded, but because I am a man saying that men are now devalued and women are overvalued and western women have huge bigheaded problems I am called archaic and out of touch with the modern way...

Well maybe I am avant guard and at the cutting edge of men's movement – maybe I am modern in my belief that it's time for men to stop silently let women emotionally abuse us and that we have a voice and that its not wussy like to stand up to feminist bullies that apply many double standards like expecting men to pay for dates, open door for them, take out the trash, and fix the cars. That men should send women flowers but they never send us things. That men should buy women expensive jewelry and huge diamonds for engagement rings. When was the last time you saw a woman buy a man a $5000 wedding ring. Oh no! But its traditional you progressives scream. Face it you want it both ways, just as a man wants some things both ways…..

Men did these thing to show respect for a woman's honor. They would give up their seats, allow them to enter the life boat firs because women were seen as honorable and feminine. I would say I would give up my seat for about 1% of the women I know in the US. The other 99% can swim or sink. I wouldn't give up my seat for them because they have no honor. I consider myself more honorable than most of them and therefore they should give up their seat for me. Men traditionally have been less honorable and that is why they traditionally see their wife as the apple of their eye and defend her. My things have changed,,, and in my opinion in the US not for the better culturally.

ElinglesLoco
  1/22/2013 05:11 EST

Spot on !!!

But isn't that one of the main reasons that many American/English men are now looking to Latin American/Colombian women as potential wives/partners? Because of the vast difference in attitudes? Because of the decay in the fabric of society in the States/UK?

I know from experience that Colombian women retain values which we "civillised" westerners lost many years ago. I personally would now never want to marry an English girl ever again, nor an American. Maybe this progressiveness/anti feminism is really coming to the fore because they feel threatened by our straying to the charms and values of the Chica Latina?

All I hope is that the Latin girls never try to emulate the actions or aspirations of these "progressives", for they would surely lose of lot of their unique qualities for which they are renowned the world over.

incagold
  1/22/2013 07:43 EST

wow!! interesting reading...i wont add more comments as well covered by others....besides that my 26 old colombiana chica will be arriving this am and i need a bit more rest, i am 69 years young...in canada a woman looks at me and sees a balding head, here my chica looks at me and says i have the most beautiful eyes she has ever seen...in the year i have known her she has never asked anything...she did ask why i had 2 computers, and when i left colombia i only went with one, the next trip here she asked why i had 2 cameras, same again i left with one...i only used my ipod when travelling, but she travelled to university by bus 5 days a week, now i have no ipod but it sure gets better use now...ps i love her dearly

aconcepts
  1/22/2013 08:30 EST

It a matter of respect. Many western women have lost respect for men and them selves. They now longer hold themselves to a higher standard than men but still expect to be treated as if they do.

I have no problem accepting and acknowledging that men are geared genetically to spreading the seed around, but women are part of the natural checks and balance system that keeps things in check and balance, Many no longer see that as valid. Its "if men can do it I can do it" Why? because you are a man? Your are not a man. women are women and men are men. They are not the same. But extreme feminist would have you believe they are the same. That is why you have men like me leave the US. I love women. Just not Western women. They treat men like crap. Look at the hostility in some of these posts written by western women. Very masculine and challenging and contending - but in a masculine way...

Challenging and contending is one thing, everyone wants what they want, but doing so in a masculine way when you a woman is like being a cat with the head of a dog... its some Frankenstein invention.

Many professional women here challenge me in work but they do saying a way that at the end of the day even though they have prevailed I still want to open the door for them.

That is what being feminine is about. Being confident in your softness, winning like a woman, not winning like a man.

Then there is the motherhood thing. The extreme feminist would have you think its a second class job.

face it women bear children. That is just the way it is, But they want out of mothering the children, and I do not mean that in a biological sense. That is the part they cannot get out of, but they want men to mother. Men should resist mothering, We are not built to be mothers. The more we mother the more we become feminie, Men should father, That furthers masculinity and set good example for boys.

Women are making their son wimps, and like sensualspirt says, show her a real man. They are few and far in between because mothers have made them in wimps by emasculating the fathers. Emasculated father. Emasculated son. Can't have it both ways girls.

So look at what is happening. Women extreme feminist behavior in the end is making them unhappy because they cannot find masculine men.


Bob Marley has a great song called Midnight Ravers, the lyrics: you can't tell the woman form the man, they dress in the same pollution, their minds are confused with confusion. Happiness is just an illusion...

Women will never by happy with feminine men and men will never be happy with masculine women. Its unnatural.

ElinglesLoco
  1/22/2013 18:11 EST

IncaGold. You enjoy it , mate. To many people it seems odd, nay, even wrong. But if you both enjoy your relationship, who has the right to pass judgement?

I too, am married to a Colombian girl 30 years younger than myself. In England, many people think of me as a "baby snatcher"or some kind of other creep, but she was a full adult when I first got to know her, and is certainly not in need of advice or protection, and knows her own mind better than most.

It has been a good 14 years, and we have 2 lovely children. I went into the relationship with the attitude that if it only lasted 6 months, then those 6 months would be better than a lifetime without knowing the happiness it has brought. I also recognised that one day, maybe she wouldn't find me so attractive, as I got older. Maybe the fact that neither of us has been screwed up with fear, jealousy, paranoia, and have been quite relaxed about life and our relationship, is the reason it has worked so well for so long.

I am sure that one day she will find that dementia is something she will not want to deal with, or whatever else might happen as one gets older, or I might simply fall over with a heart attack. So I have prepared their future, with commercial property rented out to provide an income, a brand new penthouse being built this year, so she and our kids will always have somewhere to live and a bit of security if the unknown should suddenly strike.

But at the end of the day, I have been extremely happy, whereas I had been married twice before, and both were nightmares.

IncaGold, I wish upon you the same happiness that I have found, and if you do have that happiness, you are indeed a lucky man.

aconcepts
  1/22/2013 19:09 EST

El Loco

great post. I feel you. I respect your choices and i understand that its better to be hot than warm, I see such passionless unions that remind me of drudgery, So like John Lennon says - what ever gets you through the night..

A woman heart should be her family and home, Security, Men provide that and should not be frivolous in that area, and women should not be frivolous when choosing a mate. The modern US woman is very frivolous and applies male criterion to choose a mate. Being a good provider is no longer respected by western society. The big hotheadedness has got to such a point that many western women truly believe that there is a Tom Cruise for each one of them and further more believe that they deserve one and that if every aspect of their life is not just right, they are dissatisfied and contentious,,,,

I am super happy for both of you and for Gold as well.

AC

sensualspirit
  1/25/2013 21:58 EST

Hi Loco LOL,

I'm not so sure it's just about the woman getting pregnant, I think it's more about insecurity & his ego.

Really there's no statistics out there (how could there be) about how many men raise another man's child, but I have heard story after story that they do & they do it unknowingly.

Unless the child comes out a totally different race, most times the woman can slide it by him as it being his.

And if you think this is just about how things are today, think again, this has been going on for ages.

I once watched a documentary (I watch a lot of those) on how women are vilified in society for being sexually open or expressive about their feelings.

That's where I learned that there's at least 15-25 different ways to call a woman a slut & ONLY 2-3 ways to call a man a slut or man whore.

I personally don't talk crudely, but I do swear as I don't consider that crude, & I can't use those words, they offend me.

Saying that, I've always been very open minded, but in the last 10 years I became more settled. The problem is, most of society can't conceptualize anyone being open minded AND wanting a committed relationship. In their small brains, it's either ONE or the OTHER.

It can make for a very lonely world to find others of like mind, but things are slightly better now.

I too have a problem with people (that's both men & many women) who have a problem with the word LOVE.

When I read online that it's considered a 4 letter word, I was shocked.

I feel like a prude even though I never was one before to say that I'm ashamed by the direction that society has gone in.

It's all about sex, sex & more sex, flaunting the looks (we all like to look good) & one upping everyone else. It's all fake & there's no depth.

And if I find someone of depth, generally they have no sense of humor or are very boring.

But I haven't given up : )

What's it like being 150? : )

aconcepts
  1/25/2013 22:38 EST

"That's where I learned that there's at least 15-25 different ways to call a woman a slut & ONLY 2-3 ways to call a man a slut or man whore."

That is because its ultimately up to the woman regarding to whom she spreads her legs...

The more partners she has the less chastise she is and therefore referred to as a slut.

Because you see things as gender neutral, women like you no longer want the responsibility of filtering potential mates.

The invention of the birth control pill crested the sexual revolution and absolved women from choosing carefully with whom she has sex .

That may be true for the physical aspects of sex such as child bearing, but it does not absolve women from their cultural responsibilities such as nurturing and being honorable, which means carefully choosing her partners and cultivating a family so families have an emotionally healthy home.

That means being there for the husband and children. That means sacrifice, and it is that sacrifice that women no longer want to do, that men find honorable.

sensualspirit
  1/26/2013 00:24 EST

Great response Courtenay.

It seems that both genders still have a lot of issues we still need to work out.

I've heard (this is not my choice) that many women wish they didn't have to work. They feel they have to b/c of living expenses.

They would rather stay home & raise the kids.

Again, not my cup of tea, but it just shows everyone that we should all do what's most comfortable for us so we can be happy.

Michelle

aconcepts
  1/26/2013 07:35 EST

Children do what they want to do. Adults do what they have to do.

Happiness pales in comparison to being responsible which brings satisfaction. Happiness is as fleeting as an orgasm. Satisfaction lasts.

I am not happy when I sacrifice for my children. But I am satisfied that is did the right thing. That is being honorable.

I am not happy when i have to nag my child or discipline her but I am raising a child with character. That is honorable.

Putting happiness before doing the honorable thing is exactly what many if not most western women value. Look at their role models in the media. Kardashians, lady Gaga, Katy Perry - all sluty looking for happiness without responsibility to those that look up to them.

The bottom line is who are you living for? - if you are living for yourself than most likely you are selfish and lonely. A taker.

If your are living for others or a cause outside yourself you are most likely well accompanied as people like to be around givers, They are inspiring and genuine.

Of course there is a balance to be struck in giving and taking but the general principle applies.

As far as the "have to work." most do so because they want the family to have a newer car or a vaction or have enough money to buy what the Jones have, rather than having a loving mother at home teaching and caring for the kids.

Its an excuse for many to shuck the doldrums of parenting the children that they birthed...

Wanting more "material things" at the expense of being there for your children is dishonorable. Children want Mommy, they don't want things!

Absent mothers use things to placate kids and ease their guilt for not being there.

What is portrayed as the modern woman in the western world is for the most part dishonorable - proud to be known as a bitch and a ball breaker, childless and out to get all she can even if it means sleeping her way to the top,,, Where is the honor or sacrifice in that? Where is the softness, the femininity?

ElinglesLoco
  1/30/2013 20:17 EST

Hey, I go away for a couple of days, and the thread stops!!

Michelle, I have to say, your post of 25th Jan is so true. I agree with almost everything you say.

Whats it like being 150? Ha Ha. I do that because of what I mentioned earlier, about women today having a totally rigid criteria for choosing a man. You mustn't be younger than 34 and a half, nor older than 34 and three quarters. You mustn't be shorter than 6ft, but no taller than 6ft 0.25 inches. Its so stupid. It even applies, not just to choosing a date, but I have experienced it just chatting on a bulletin board. I don't see what difference it makes if you have no desire to even meet, and certainly not marrying the girl, but they still do it. It also takes no account of whether the guy is a decent bloke, or a total a**hole. So 150 rules out most of the women like that. The ones that do stop and chat are usually ok.

sensualspirit
  1/30/2013 20:56 EST

LOL, you keep the thread going, what can I say? We can't live without you : )

I've missed a few responses I'm sure, but I'm just swamped with work & tons of e-mails, so I don't have time to go back & look.

I have to admit I'm one of those women, but for me it's not about age although I used to have an age range, but it was quite wide. And I wouldn't be so stupid to stop at an age if the person had almost everything else I was looking for.

The attributes I look for are: intelligence, intuitiveness (I know, asking a lot) LOL, spiritual development (not religion), a sense of humor (again, sometimes asking a lot), someone who's fun (ditto on asking a lot), honest, no comment on my dittos, has a good heart, but isn't a pushover. Secure within themselves, very open minded, likes to learn.

There could be more, but those are the character traits that can be make or break its for me.

Physically I only want clean shaven which rules out 75% of the male population these days & men with facial hair are SOOOOO difficult that it's like they will die if there's even a suggestion of them losing that crutch. Makes me wonder.

I don't even suggest it & they get angry at me for wanting to kiss someone with NO hair going up my nose & in my mouth.

Why men want to look other than they are is also something I will never figure out.

But anyway, I know men don't like women with a list. I understand their point of view on this.

I think the problem is that women are so used to not getting what they want, that they organize what they do want & write it all out.

For the women who talk about height & how many cars he should have & to be a millionaire, I feel sorry for them. Not that any woman wants someone who is broke, but men don't want a broke woman either. I want to be happy & well off, not give up one for the other.

And there are plenty of men who require the woman to be gorgeous, have a gorgeous body, but 18-25, be passive so he gets whatever he wants, etc.

My belief is this... If a man is TRULY a secure man (not a little boy hiding in a man's body), & he treats the woman with respect & adores her, assuming he hasn't chosen a conniving bitch, she will reciprocate & make HIM feel like the man of the house.

That's my pov, but while I'm very modern, I'm old fashioned in certain areas, so what I think & what everyone else things are usually at odds.

Welcome back from wherever you went. : )


Michelle

spank12
  1/30/2013 21:00 EST

You folks always make me smile. This debate is any country,,,,lolol When you realize men are men,,no matter the age.....

ElinglesLoco
  1/31/2013 16:34 EST

He He. You can only have a good conversation if you have equally as good a conversational partner, so don't blame me alone for keeping this one alive. :)

Spank. True, all these points can be any country in the world, for I think its about men and women rather than a subject unique to Locombia. But as long as we enjoy the chats, then I'm sure we won't get lambasted, for aren't we all Locombians at heart anyway? (So we qualify).

Michelle ... You include Honesty in your list? In a man? Ok, now although I appear highly critical of women in my posts, I do believe you are asking the impossible. I'm afraid if you keep this one in your list, you are doomed to spinsterhood for the rest of your life (or disappointment). I have to say, as I mentioned in an earlier post, that of all the men I have had acquaintance with, there is the merest chance you would find one. To your face, maybe, but when you catch them in groups of men, you do see another side to them. Its a fact that women either don't believe, or prefer not to believe, I'm not sure which. But aren't women the same? I don't personally hang out in girls' locker rooms, but I think I can imagine the scene, and the chat. Tell me I am wrong.

But I totally agree about facial hair. I can imagine kissing with it going up your nose or into your mouth, complete with crumbs or the sauce from last night's dinner. Yuk! If I had to kiss a moustache or a beard, I think I would ask her to shave too.

Why do men want to look other than they are? They do say its because they are hiding behind something, but you have to find out "what". Some say they have a sexual problem, maybe inadequacy. Other think its an insecurity thing. Or do they think they look like Don Juan? I cannot answer that one, I'm afraid.

I can understand that a woman doesn't want a broke man, for broke is often a sign of failure, and lets face it, women want to be able to look up to their man, rely on him, look for protection by him, and a failure doesn't often come up with those things. But I think a lot of men don't care whether their girl has money or not. Some are intimidated if their girl is more successful than he, others think that the woman will be more dependent on him, offering him more security if he is one of those insecure chappies. Personally I am one of those that think it is the man's job to provide, so although the woman having money of her own gives her a freedom and independence, and she can maintain her individuality, I do not demand that she pays her way. Quirky? Or just a little old fashioned?

Ok, I am away again for a couple of days, so I will expect to read a hundred insults (mostly from guys for exposing them) when I get back. :))

Chao.

aconcepts
  1/31/2013 20:47 EST

Michelle - you make my and other's point - look at that list! Get real... mick jagger on American girls:

French girls they want Cartier
Italian girls want cars
American girls want everything in the world
You can possibly imagine

You girls are famous for it, Then the funny thing is that its like shopping - once you get it you don't want it or you want more. American women are the least satisfied least happiest women I have ever met - that really should read Western women. They have really little intentions of satisfying any one but themselves... but they cannot even do that! very confused and sad because they are masculine and the US men are now feminie and the minds are confused with confusion....

Glad I don't live there any more and have not even visited for years because all my friends wives hate me because I have an affectionate young adoring Latina that respects me as a man. Western women stopped respecting men ever since they became one.

soystar1
  2/1/2013 08:40 EST

I have just read your reply. Perhaps, you read more into my perceptions than I do. I have not thought of myself as being moral superior. Your insight here is incorrect.

I am not judging anyone. Here again, your incorrect aconcepts.

If you re read the comments these are comments and information from Colombians themselves as warnings to foriengers.

I hope next time you judge others as you yourself hate people who think judge Colombians take the time to think about your responses.

Why and where I choose to live should mean of little importance to you as I respect your choice of where you live and the way of life.

I do respect your comments as it creates dialogue but please refrain from judging until you actually become the monster that you hate.

aconcepts
  2/2/2013 08:13 EST

Soy star - are you sure your are responding to my posts?

I never mentioned anything about where you lived,?

I do not hate western women... I only feel sorry ofr them and cannot tolerate most of them.

I feel sorry for men that lose their masculinity as well.

Plenty of feminine women where I live and that is good with me.

As far a warnings go - those warning apply to any where you find poverty. That is not a reality peculiar only to Colombia.

Is English your first language? Just curious...

aconcepts
  2/2/2013 08:52 EST

Just so readers know. I think women are great if not superior to men because they give birth and are not as agressive. But mothering and passivity, the traits I admire in a woman along with emotional strength and endurance, are the things that extreme feminism destroys in a woman.

I dont think you can fault a woman for wanting a masculine man, just as sen spirt indicated, and a man for wanting a feminie women.

To me, western women have been fooled, bought into something that is bad for the world. I don't mean equal pay or the right to vote blah blah blah - I mean women being agresive and using masculine way of thinking to choose a mate.

Yin is more powerful than yang. many western women have abandoned developing their yin characteristics for yang style power. To me its unattractive. Sad actually as parents are models for their children.

I think women are great and men are also great if they stay true to their gender disposition, other wise to me it starts to be a confused, freak show.

AC

youcantoo
  1/28/2016 09:50 EST

This happens all over the world. To them it's a job.

novato1953
  1/28/2016 10:02 EST

Dame una dama en la calle y una puta en la cama, por favor.

augieman
  1/28/2016 11:29 EST

Are you aware You responded to posts three years old.
Yes so I just did as well.

drdirt
  2/1/2016 17:55 EST

You need to find a better class of friends in Colombia. I've owned in Bogota over 30 years, and never heard anything like that.

themedellingringo
  2/15/2016 19:39 EST

I am entertaining a girl, weekend night...11pm, everything going well.

Her cell phone rings.

Caller: (Screaming at her for 30-40 seconds)

Her: Si, si, si, claro, si, ok ok ok

She hangs up.

She speaks fluent English and tells me it was her Dad and he is in the hospital very sick.

I ask what all the yelling was about and she says that he is very upset that he is "sick" and "poor" and bla bla bla.

Feeling a bit like she is a liar and up to no good, I ask her to go ahead and leave, that she should "Go be with your sick Dad."

She says "No no no I want to be with you."

So we hang out and I have some drinks in me and some, eh hum, male enhancement vitamins so I didn't want to waste the night.

To the end here to make this quick. On her way out she asked for the bottle of cologne I was wearing and a shirt she saw hanging in the restroom, some cash....said she would like to go visit her "sick Dad" and take him a gift.

This was not a hooker either. This was a girl I met at a restaurant where she worked and I had a good 3 weeks of time invested. We even met a few times for coffee before this night.

Poor ol' Dad. She loves him so much!!! At least she asked and didn't steal it!

Yes, these "men" pimp their girls out and the girls are dumb enough to go do it.

She left empty handed BUT I did give her a Tarzan-like experience. One for the Gringo's.

JasonWriter
  2/15/2016 23:42 EST

Why doesn't someone just publish this thread as an ebook already.

COLUMBIA EXPAT FORUM PRESENTS:

MEN ARE FROM MARS WOMEN ARE FROM MEDELLIN

or something. Good god so much effort has been put into this thread people deserve to get paid

LaPiranha
  2/16/2016 22:02 EST

Agreed. I just read the whole thread, yes, from 3 years ago, There are some great posts there. And quite a few people we never see today. Shame, for they brought something good to the forum.

soystar1
  2/17/2016 19:36 EST

Well, as this post has dust all over it we can see that these shenanigans are recurring everywhere. I am not surprised by today's news that the whole police depart is under investigation for a prostitution ring. Go figure? Welcome to Colombia.

timllowe
  2/17/2016 19:42 EST

Go figure, indeed.

soystar1
  2/20/2016 11:33 EST

I personally would not take advice from Harvey a stand up comic. Oops, that's what my teleprompter said and not me. Sorry Columbia I meant philistine.

The latest on the scan is that it was not a female prostitution ring but a homosexual one within the entire pd. It is now known as the "Anillo ring" referring to anus.

Several people have become threatened and have left the country and / or resigned their jobs. A very serious matter.

It now begs the question on who exactly are the bad guys in Colombia? Marxist groups , liberation groups, guerrilla groups, law, politicians, drug traffickers, etc...

I would expect President Santos to clean house but he has thus far only appointed a new chief to lead the pd . Scandal's like these only further put the spotlight on the country's leader.

bigjailerman
  2/20/2016 11:42 EST

I have to laugh about this.. :0

themedellingringo
  2/21/2016 17:34 EST

AMERICAN-BORN COLOMBIAN WOMAN?.....I disagree. No man NEEDS an American-born Colombian anything. Maybe a Colombian born native woman, yes, that I would agree with.

American woman are disgusting Bigfoot's walking around pounding their chests and don't know if they are a man, a woman, or where they even belong in society. They did this to themselves. Maybe Opera W. had something to do with it or LA Law started the trend.

American women are so confused. "Am I a woman, am I a man. Hmm, I am not sure so I'll slug down some Yager bombs and wear my hat backwards and maybe even get some more tats. Or, maybe I'll just walk around like Bigfoot and scare men away because no one ever taught me how to be a lady."

Not sure how this thread ended up with a disappointed man and the realities of prostitution to an American female Bigfoot attempting to assert her pseudo dominance place in society. No one cares about your "mix of feminism" lol. My lord.

Go back to Kansas Toto. This is Colombia.

bigjailerman
  2/21/2016 18:55 EST

I understand what you ate trying to say but they aren't all the same... Number two, most of us have U.S. Born mother's, sisters, amd daughters amd none of them are Bigfoot our anything close.
Maybe you should reel it in a bit.

suadel
  2/22/2016 15:35 EST

Quite an insult to American Women!! Man, you are so rude.
I bet you've never been to California!!

JasonWriter
  2/23/2016 19:54 EST

Yeah...that was a slightly odd outburst from MedellinGringo there, there's just no doubt about it. That escalated. Fast.

bh2
  2/24/2016 10:19 EST

Someone recently made the observation that when it comes to sex, women need a reason, but men only need a location.

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