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Wiring money to Colombia to buy a property

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briloop
  5/18/2014 09:31 EST

My wife and I plan to buy property in Colombia. How easy (or difficult) is it to wire or transfer the money in to buy a property? I signed up with Xoom to transfer money, but they have limits. Thanks

masterita
  5/18/2014 17:33 EST

How difficult or easy and only be told by the stars in the night sky. Basically if you have a bank account here in Colombia you need to give permission for the initiating wiring bank in the states to wire the money into you account in Colombia by filling out the forms in perfect detail. After you can TRY to arrange the wire before it is sent or just do it after. You will need a legal house purchase contract to show cause for the incoming wire transfer.

Try Xe.com as their rates are usually more competitive for larger transfers.

You will have about 24 to 48 hours until your transfer arrives. You can try to negotiate a rate before or as the transfer arrives. But you will have about 5 business days to claim the transfer before it gets out into bank limbo.

... That is the basics. The details might change with each bank roe you speak with.

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ElinglesLoco
  5/18/2014 23:28 EST

One important aspect would be, are either you or your wife Colombian? It makes a difference. If one of you are, then it helps. If a non-Colombian brings in money, you have to declare it is for buying a property, otherwise they may suspect it is for a drug shipment. But when you declare it is for buying a property, then you may find that you have to pay a higher rate of tax if/when you sell it. You may also have problems taking the proceeds back out of the country again if you don't declare it.

But if either of you are Colombian, then this will by-pass the "gringo tax", as a Colombian will not be subject to the same high investment tax on the sale of the property.

The above was the current information when I first invested here. It may have changed in these last few years, so I would check with the tax authorities, just to make sure of the current facts today.

ColombiaGringo
  5/19/2014 19:49 EST

if you use a 3rd party like xe you have to make sure they have a colombian office to comply with registering the foreign investment in property or you will be fined very heavily by the SUPERIVSOR OF FINANCES that overseas banking transactions. they usually show up at your doorstep a couple years after you purchase property. if the purchase isn't registered correctly your going to have a hard time taking the money out of the country as well.

Foreign investments should always be registered with the formulario 4 at the bank if your purchasing property, with the proper codes for real estate purchase.

James Lindzey
www.colombiavisas.com

briloop
  5/27/2014 13:49 EST

I should have mentioned that my wife is a Colombian citizen.

paladino
  5/29/2014 19:53 EST

Without boring you with too many recent interactions with the banking system of Colombia which can be most easily compared to taking a rasp and inserting into the backside of your shorts and running up and down quickly....it's a pain in the trasero. I totally backup what masterita is forshadowing... let me explain. It's easy to wire money to a person with a bank account in Colombia... BUT that person will not be able to actually receive/use the funds in Colombia until the bank Gestapo has seen all of their and your papers and the papers from anyone who has ever touched the money you sent. If you are confused.. you ain't seen nothing yet! Colombia will not release the funds into anyone's account UNTIL a couple of things have been presented to the Banking Gestapo of Colombia [an unseen all-powerful technocrat somewhere in Bogota]. One, all paperwork and electronic documents MUST include include consistent, yet accurate explanation of where that filthy money came from and WHAT IS IT INTENDED USE. Example: 'Money to purchase family home' or 'Funds to purchase commercial business in Medellin' If the money is claimed to be from 'savings' then the banking system is going to expect to see up to six months of bank statements from the SAME bank account the funds were wired from. If gosh forbid the funds come from more than one source you will need to be able to provide documents from all sources including docs of the transfers from said sources. Example: you wired 30K from your saving account and 100K from your investment account VIA your bank account. You will need to have proof [PDFs work just fine] of every step and every account. I suggest you do this at the same time your prepare the transfer cuz you is going to need it cousin. I could rant for an hour on this subject. The way to explain everything is to imagine you are [in a deleted scene of Casablanca] trying to enter a WWII Nazi occupied country and you wish to position the funds ahead of you for your arrival. 'We must see your papers! Papers Please!' Note: the same will be required on the Colombian side .. Example: a purchase contract, intent to purchase, contract to purchase, etc.

The banking system of Colombia can really wear you down if you need to do much banking which is the reason I suggest you create and fund an offshore bank account with a bank that cares about their customers opinions. Just my long-winded 500 pesos worth.

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JohnnyD
  5/29/2014 21:24 EST

You've hit it right on the head. Colombians are onto their ways and often use offshore accounts to avoid the Bank Gestapo as you put it. Colombian banks are among the wealthiest enterprises in Colombia as they siphon off millions each month from checking or savings accounts, do not pay interest, and charge for everything.

briloop
  5/30/2014 06:58 EST

Should we hire a Colombian lawyer to get us through the house purchase process?

On the topic of banking in Colombia: it would seem to me that if one should avoid dealing with Colombian banks, wouldn't it be rather inconvenient and risky to make ATM withdrawals on a regular basis (i.e. daily, every other day, etc.) just to have money to pay for living expenses, clothing, etc.?

paladino
  5/30/2014 09:32 EST

First I want to say that 'to each his own way' because I am not an expert at anything in Colombia. I just have fresh experiences and thus more likely to express my opinions. There are veterans on this forum to give you the best answers to your first question as I have not bought a home yet so I am not anyone to say.

As to your second question about using the banks it really is your choice. You probably do want to have a bank account since it will help and is cheaper than using an offshore debit card etc. My 500 pesos worth is to keep the bulk of your money in an offshore bank and keep a year or 6 months worth of cash in a Colombia account to use for cash withdrawals. Some people have commented about having a credit union account in the USA and avoiding ATM fees altogether. I don't have so I cannot attest to that. There are many comments on the site about ATMS including a recent and ongoing battle I have with Davivienda wth an ATM withdrawal the ATM did not complete yet Davivienda can't seem time to reverse the charge in almost 6 weeks of wrangling with them over the issue complete with my ATM receipt that clearly says the funds were not paid.

briloop
  5/30/2014 10:16 EST

My plan was to have a Colombian bank account with a balance that never exceeded one month's worth of expenses. However, there could be times when the balance would exceed one month's worth of expenses in order to purchase large $ items that could only be purchased in Colombia. I have to have accounts in the U.S. in order to receive retirement money.

JohnnyD
  5/30/2014 13:16 EST

On ATMs" Use ATMs inside banks that have armed guards. Some outside ATMs also have armed guards but I prefer the inside one. In El Rodadero I have used ATMs exclusively for paying for monthly needs. Never had a problem. In Bogota too, esp. in the large malls, there are inside ATMs with armed guards. Fairly safe place to withdraw money but hide it well.

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soystar1
  5/30/2014 14:33 EST

Don't ever be lulled into a false sense of security by saying I took money out in a mall an so, I think it's safe. Far too many people think this way. As a, matter of fact, a robbery took place here in North Armenia just last week. A Colombian man took out a large sum of money from a bank that was located inside a mall and yep, you guessed it robbed at gunpoint getting into his car.

I remember this advice in Santa Marta too. Never take money out without a lookout. I'm talking large sums here.

If you do get robbed just hand over the money, better to fight another day.

Like we have always said: We are already stereotyped as being rich gringos compared to Colombianos. I really do think we are pressing our luck when we are driving the nice shiny car, flashing that new watch or cell phone. We are like walking advertisements. In addition, I 'm sure you will also make a lot of new friends, Geez I wonder why?

Stay safe everyone.

JohnnyD
  5/30/2014 19:27 EST

You are right, of course, that there's no ultrasafe way to get home safely with your cash withdrawal before being robbed. Guard protected ATMs inside or outside of a mall is still safer than no protection. I always withdraw in the morning, use no car, and usually have a lookout. A trick my bank in the states taught me is to have two debit cards, one for a small amount and the other for your stash, checking and investments, etc. Never carry the "big" debit card on your person, only the "small" one if you have to carry it at all. That way, if you are forced at gun or knife point to withdraw funds, you'll never be totally down and out.

paladino
  5/31/2014 13:46 EST

I want to concur with most of what's been posted above. If I could roll it up into a list here it is.

Wiring money is expensive, so you don't to have to do any more often than you are comfortable with. Xoom for USA bank to Colombian bank is the cheapest way I know of but you have to the Colombian bank already set up. Problem with Xoom is you are limited to several grand per month but it works great and is very safe IMHO.

If you are never going to need more than a few grand a month, period then this works pretty well. If on the other hand you need to spend more then you will be stuck with doing something else.. the most expensive thing having to fly back to the USA to wire funds... Now if you are a big fish then maybe you have the clout to get your funds wired from the USA by your private banker....jajaja not in my house....I just wanted to chime is that having a safe, legal, offshore bank account where you can usually get money wired within 24 hours to anywhere in the world. The problem is it cost $100 USD per wire. Yet it's one of the best decisions you will make IMHO. There are many, many of us who believe that capital controls are just around the corner in the USA, once those are in effect it will be a real pain getting anything over lunch money sent outside the USA. Call me crazy, I am not ashamed of my opinion nor offended by yours.

I definitely believe that having 2-3 bank accounts with separate ATM cards is a must and NEVER carry them both around on your person. Keep your spending money in one account and periodically move some of your other capital into the spending account aka 'staging' for your daily ATM withdrawals. If you get robbed and they force you to extract money, they will see the balance and get what they can get..not much and I hope let you go. If you have a big balance they may hold you at gunpoint for a day or two or three until they have emptied the account. So you get our point about the different accounts now? I believe another tact is simply to always walk around with 40-100 USD and now cards or even a passport. I just carry a photocopy of my passport and some cash whenever possible. The cash is enough to get me through almost anything per day and if I get robbed that's enough cash they will probably just let me go. BTW: I really want to say that I am not an expert and in my travels in LA; I have never been robbed...well not by gunpoint cuz there was that one taxi driver in Caracas back in 1999..yaddy yaddi. Jajaja. That's just my opinion but I apologize for getting too off topic but this board is about sharing knowledge and opinions.

ColombiaGringo
  5/31/2014 13:59 EST

yeah but remember its not the moment your using the ATM but when your a few blocks away walking home or in a car that they people watching will rob you. Usually they are working with bank tellers, police or security gaurds that tip them off on large withdrawls in cash. yep i said the police. ATMs are much better than taking out cash with a real bank teller since then your dealing with a person. the ATM machine isnt going to send a message or call the theifs.

use the atm in the grocery store and walk around and buy some food before leaving...

James
www.colombiavisas.com

Patricio
  5/31/2014 14:31 EST

paladino always find your posts informative and wortwhile. I am getting ready for my big move and just moved from a local bank to Chase and am thinking of opening a second checking account there with a second ATM/debit card for just the reasons that have been suggested. Seems solid. Thanx all.

paladino
  6/3/2014 13:05 EST

Thanks for the compliment Patricio. I am a bit of a nut on the subject of travel security for two reasons. One my parents were common, country folk who grew up during the Great Depression and WWII and they pounded into their children personal responsibility and because we lived out in the sticks, take responsibility for your own security. Back in my youth I did a bit of adventure travel in some especially rotten places like Venezuela and I did a large of amount of travels by myself or with strangers to exotic mountains, remote beaches, jungle rivers, etc. Not Nat. Geo stuff but you get my point. I have developed deep feelings and opinions about security in LA. I also am still learning because times change, tech etc.

zak023
  8/30/2014 09:39 EST

Yes ..Charles Schwab does. I have an account with them.. I used it in Medellin at Citibank and Ban Colombia and the ATM fee was free..

You need to open an account here in the USA and have a Valid Drivers License to open the account...

ColombiaGringo
  8/30/2014 10:13 EST

The only problem with purchasing property with money from an ATM is that your investment will not be legalized. So if you still toe property and want to remove money from the country in the future you will have to carry it out in bags. Max 10,000 at a time. All transfers would come in with a form 4 from the banco de República.


Www.Colombiainvestorsvisa.com

thelocogringo
  8/30/2014 10:42 EST

I am certainly no expert and rules change here on a daily basis. I have purchased and sold several propertys in Colombia. I have paid with pesos from the ATM, transfering funds to my colombian bank account, writing checks from my USA bank account to be deposited in the sellers Colombian account, so on and so forth. Never had any problem filing form 4 and claiming my foriegn investment status.

ColombiaGringo
  8/30/2014 13:03 EST

The problem comes later if you get to justify the money you made here and get to take it out of the country. Lots of people do this and everything goes fine except if you try to remove the money then gets tricky. The other situation is that if you want to get a visa you can't qualify with investments like this.

Of course if you can show you earned money in Colombia with a job then your fine then your fine.

MushroomMike
  9/2/2014 00:37 EST

briloop,
Have you tried USForex for transferring money to Columbia? I have used them for ACH (SWIFT) trans. to Australia with no problems.

USForex also has a limit on amt. of transfer, but I do not know if that applies to me anymore after three Aus. transfers.

enretiro
  9/5/2014 07:49 EST

I opened an account with Bancolombia completed from # 5 and give to the bank a letter with the statement about your intentions and the origen of your money. Once you have the account your bank transfer the money to your account in Colombia and you can negociate the exchange rate. It is easier to transfer the money to the seller once you have the purchase agreement registered or if the person has an account in USA

soystar1
  9/5/2014 08:14 EST

You're correct. Sadly, as in the case of wells, you have to initiate the first transfer from point of origin before doing it here due to security measures. What this means is traveling to Miami to do do a fast Giro if it has not been done prior to living here.

They also informed me on several options e.g. Writing a check or a cash advance (too costly)to pay for a new residence.

As xoom has limited options on amounts and places to send money, yet another option is to use this service to send money to your bancocolombia act with a higher limit of 9mmor someone that you trust.

Best of Luck my place is not ready until next year.

ColombiaGringo
  9/5/2014 12:31 EST

Form 5 is for expenses and not for registering investments. You will have to filer a correction.

Www.Colombiainvestorsvisa.Com
James LIndzey

Patricio
  2/15/2017 17:45 EST

I am a US citizen living in Colombia for 3 years on a retiree visa. I want to transfer funds here to buy real estate in my name as a single person.
Am I allowed to register this as a foreign investment, form 4, or do I have to use form 5 because I have been here that long and am considered resident in this matter, but different than resident after 5 years or buying or investing a large amount.

If anyone has an answer, it would be appreciated mucho!

canpandave
  2/15/2017 17:57 EST

Pretty sure you can use formulario 4, if the investment is enough to qualify for RE Visa.

Best advice, pay a professional for advice....

a1adiver
  3/25/2017 11:48 EST

If you are a legal resident. I would suggest you open a bank account. Also you will need to file with the back a form called Formulario 4. It is available as a pdf download. Fill it out and present to the bank. This form will allow you to bring money into Colombia and more importantly, take it blackout of Colombia without taxation, if you ever need to move the money back to another country. I would also suggest you get a good accountant. I will be living in Cali in the next few months. I have a great accountant who knows the in's and out's of taxes, property purchases etc. If you would like I can refer you to them. She also has a son in the import / export business who speaks english.

tubes
  3/25/2017 13:45 EST

As I understand it, you only need to register a formulario 4 if you intend to sell the property again to a non-Colombian.

I imported the cash for my purchase through my bank, who wanted to see some documents to verify the purchase. Normally you are limited to import $10,000,000 per month.

cccmedia
  3/25/2017 14:36 EST

When I bought a condo in South America, I did not have a bank account on the continent.

I wired money into the seller-company's account in the pre-agreed amounts.

This avoided two problems...

1. FATCA reporting issues.

2. The obstacles to opening -- and wiring into -- a foreign account.

cccmedia in La Zona Cafetera
USA bank customer

SunsetSteve
  3/25/2017 14:43 EST

Makes total sense.

Kee
  3/25/2017 15:13 EST

The biggest drawback I found when transferring money to buy a house in Colombia is that my bank in the USA (Bank of America) wanted my physical presence on the sending end.

Which pleased my wife, since we made a short vacation of it.

GRINGO1459
  3/25/2017 15:49 EST

Here is the question I have.
I have an Colombian bank account at BBVA if I transfer small amounts lets say $500.00 to $2000.00 a month what problems can I expect to see the money is not for investment. The money is just to have in the account.

tubes
  3/25/2017 18:09 EST

Colombian banks have to declare to the authorities if you transfer more than $10,000,000 in any 30 days. This is supposed to prevent money-laundering.

If you can prove a special need (house purchase, medical expenses etc.) they will generally approve it.

Kee
  3/25/2017 20:31 EST

Gringo, you won't have any problems transferring said amounts. I think that my BanColombia account limits me to $7,000 per month. I recommend that every resident open a local account for the convenience, security, etc. I don't see any downside.

GRINGO1459
  3/25/2017 20:54 EST

thanks for the replies all the talk about the bank police and money getting lost in limbo had me worried

Kee
  3/26/2017 10:37 EST

The first money transfer you make to a new bank account in Colombia is the one that may have a hold put on it until you go back to the bank (or call).

If you need to make a large transfer to buy a property, talk to the bank first. If you have a compra/venta agreement and both accounts are in your name it should not be a problem, but they may require additional information to show where the money comes from (or not). The money will only go into your account (at least this is my experience) when you go to your Colombian bank and sign agreeing to the exchange rate.

On our multiple trips to the bank we got some conflicting information. First we were told that I could transfer money into my wife's account and that we were lucky the account had been opened for more than six months because they required that. Then the banker decided I should open an account in my name to make the transfer easier and the six months didn't matter.

It all worked out, but it took several trips to the bank. (The small regular transfers from Xoom are no problem).

Elexpatriado
  3/26/2017 14:56 EST

I used Alianza Fiduciaria several years ago with little hassle and small payment.Dont know how they are now.

On a separate note..bringing wife to Colombia?

Thats like bringing sand tonthe beach.

Elexpatriado
  3/26/2017 14:59 EST

They y completed the Formalario 4 forma for me.
That was in 2011. With all the money laundering and other tax rules now, may have gotten more complicated.

Elexpatriado
  3/26/2017 15:17 EST

Ohh..didnt need a Colombian bank account
.

fecherklyn
  3/26/2017 21:45 EST

@ numerous posters.

A number of persons have said "use formulario 4". I am sorry, I think this is the wrong answer.

To my understanding, Formulario 4 is intended to be used for "FOREIGN INVESTMENTS", thus those acquisitions made from monetary sources OUTSIDE Colombia by persons who do NOT HAVE A COLOMBIAN TAX RESIDENT STATUS. So, if you are already a resident in Colombia (More than 182 day rule), then you do NOT qualify for making a "Foreign Investment".

Accordingly, if you are already a "RESIDENT, and you want to bring money into Colombia to buy a property, then you must use Formulario 5, the form used by thos holding a Colombian tax residency status.

Don't take my word for it. Ask a qualified lawyer, or real estate agent with experience of dealing with foreign buyers.

Elexpatriado
  3/26/2017 22:32 EST

In my case I wasnt a resident at the time.

Anyway, theoreticlly the same thing. If you dont fill it out, you would theoretically (and emphasis on the word theoretically because the law and reality are often different in Colombia) be charged tax at ahigh rate when you decide to sell and move your money back out of the country.

8901
  3/26/2017 23:09 EST

How much of a hassle would it be if you wanted to wire say $ 6,000.00 U.S. for a car purchase ?

bickmed
  3/27/2017 07:43 EST

fecherklyn ,I think you are correct. I was informed of the exact same point from Allianza as they were aware I have a resident visa; they said I should be using a form 5.

After I explained / proved I was a non tax resident with a resident visa (in county under 183 days a year), they were satisfied and continued with my form 4 registration.

Kee
  3/27/2017 12:07 EST

8901, to save time and hassle (but not money, there was a fee) I bought a car with my credit card (actually I put 1/2 the purchase on a credit card, the other half on my debit card).

8901
  3/27/2017 18:39 EST

Tnx Kee good idea but what if its buying from a person. I got someone I trust that I can wire the money too but I'm wondering if $6000 USD is something that will raise flags and become a hassle.

Kee
  3/28/2017 10:03 EST

8901, the banks and DIAN just want documentation on where money comes from and where it goes. I'm not sure exactly what would be required when buying a car from an individual.

mtbe
  3/28/2017 12:39 EST

When wire transferring a large amount of money (I don't know the level) at least from the US, you need

-a copy of your last tax return
-statement from employer of your current income and employment status...or other income declaration like SS.
- copy of latest bank statment
-document to show what the money will be used for...in Spanish

Plan to spend some time negotiating the exchange rate.

8901
  3/28/2017 20:43 EST

How would just pulling say 600 USD a day on the Schwabb card and the 600USD a day on the Citibank card for 10 days ?

Any problem with that ?

bigjailerman
  3/28/2017 21:09 EST

That's my move usually.. Free withdrawals.

mtbe
  3/29/2017 08:02 EST

No problems moving small amounts (max withdraw) from ATM each day.

8901
  3/29/2017 18:32 EST

What banks have the highest ATM withdrawal amount ?

Andresen
  3/29/2017 19:08 EST

For me, it's Citibank, Servibanca and Bancolombia.

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