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What is the cost of a tax accountant?

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fecherklyn
  10/1/2015 11:03 EST

I use a tax accountant to prepare and submit my tax declarations in Colombia……but I suspect he is overcharging me.

So I thought, why not ask other Colombian forum members what they pay. Thus we would have some form of evaluative tool.

My accountant prepares tax declarations for my wife and me. Nothing complicated: Local casa, car, cuenta de ahorros, determination of incomes in Colombia and abroad. This year, a little research on how to declare global foreign incomes (all pensions). How much for all that? Three million peso for 2015 declaration, up from two million five hundred thousand in 2014.

Seems very expensive to me, but he is a formally registered accountant with offices and staff who do all the legwork.

Can you tell what you pay so we can see how wide the margins are?

canpandave
  10/1/2015 11:08 EST

I am just getting started in Colombia and would appreciate knowing this also...Is it necessary to pay an accountant by the month if your affairs are relatively straightforward?

leo8530
  10/1/2015 12:20 EST

http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/?utm_expid=17245902-20.jfrhKY8HQaqiaXKKCS30Yw.0

I use greenback tax service for all usa taxes. They are good and reasonable.

fecherklyn
  10/1/2015 12:51 EST

Sorry, perhaps I need to clarify. I was talking about the need to have a tax accountant in Colombia to help us expat foreigners residing here.

To the best of my knowledge, tax accountants preparing tax declarations for private persons only charge an annual fee payable after submission of the declaration.

saiid20
  10/1/2015 13:33 EST

We did all the legwork, research etc.
Lady charged 500.000 (250.000 for each return).

fecherklyn
  10/1/2015 16:01 EST

Thank you Saiid20.

Can you please advise if that was for the "standard" formulaires 210 (Privada).

Just to compare legwork, I am thinking about ME requesting/chasing for all the bank/savings account certifications and other support documentation, and THEM putting it all together in the right places in the declarations and filing it with the DIAN.

saiid20
  10/2/2015 13:50 EST

Both returns were standard. And regarding the legwork, wife knew what offices to get in line in. The bank we were able to on line. Copy of w-2 and 1040 US return were accepted without need to apostalize.

Exbury
  10/2/2015 17:47 EST

The accountant that the family uses (formally registered and has an office with staff) charges $150,000 per filing, although that doesn't include overseas income. Standard file, house, car, accounts etc. Have to visit him in Chia though. $3million.....seems like a lot.

fecherklyn
  10/2/2015 18:35 EST

Thanks Exbury,

Invaluable info for me. I am clearly being ripped off.

bigjailerman
  10/2/2015 18:37 EST

That is pricey, even in the USA 1K....SHEESH
I hope he saved you alot

ColombiaGringo
  10/2/2015 20:20 EST

in Medellin, Colombia Legal & Accounting starts at 300,000 pesos for declaring taxes for foreigners receiving salary income overseas. This is just the Colombian tax return. Cases vary depending on the client profile.

444-6634 / 301 337 1881
[email protected]

fecherklyn
  10/2/2015 20:46 EST

Hi Bjm,

Unfortunately, he has saved us nothing.

You already know most of the story as a regular contributor to the "Yes, or No...." thread. We retained him because he came with a big reputation, but at the end of the day he knew absolutely nothing about the 2013 Tax Reforms and we had to inform him about the exoneration of foreign pensions issue.

Finally, he managed to get the DIAN to admit their internal decision to canx exonerations from Colombian taxes of foreign pensions, even though the verdict does not appear to have published anywhere. Our 2014 declarations have been filed with the DIAN showing 100% of our global foreign pensions and entering a 100% deduction of incomes in respect of exoneration. In this way, we leave it up to the DIAN to make the material action of challenging our declaration. We understand other expat pensioners are doing the same thing with a view to shaming the Colombian Government/DIAN. In our case, we risk paying extra taxes of over 100 million because of this over the period 2014/2015.

It really is shameful what the DIAN intends to do. In effect, it represents a retroactive, significant increase in taxation for foreign pensioners residing in Colombia. The retroactivity is now two years, as the exoneration kicks off from 2014 and we expats have now spent more than 183 days in Colombia in each of 2014, 2015; the entire period without meaningful notification of the changes.

rafapark
  10/5/2015 14:24 EST

I am a Colombian America, living in NY and was planning in retiring in Medellin next year. I even bought and furnished an apartment. Now DIAN is changing all the rules. Accountants in Colombia are mostly inept. They do not know the laws it seems. I had to informed my accountant of a few changes he was not aware. Oh, I did not know that was his answer.

Every year Colombia changes the rules and I know for a fact that more changes are coming so they can finance this peace thing with the FARC. You need to be prepared to be screwed. In my case, I already placed my apartment in the market and will take out all my money out of Colombia. I will loose money on this deal but heck, I refuse to pay 33% taxes on rental income ( they changed that rule too. If you are a Colombian living overseas, you need to pay 33% outright from any income or renta presuntiva if you don't have income) Being a Colombian, what they are doing, is motivating people not to invest in Colombia. And if you are a Colombian living abroad, you pay more taxes than a Colombian living in Colombia. Absurd. Suggestion: don't buy anything in Colombia. In my case, I will not invest one more peso in Colombia. No way.I will invest in Miami instead where at least you see your taxes at work.

fecherklyn
  10/5/2015 17:00 EST

@rafapark,

Nice to hear from someone else who seems to understand this problem. Isn't it incredible how many others don't know, or simply do not want to know.

I am on the point of doing a formal letter to the DIAN accusing them of extortion. What else can you call it when they are effectively giving retroactive application to rules that will penalise foreign pensioners in Colombia. I would never have chosen Colombia for my retirement if they had disclosed what they are doing.

The problem is, I hear everyday about other foreign pensioners who are planning to reside in Colombia. "Extortion" really does not exaggerate what the DIAN is doing.

ColombiaGringo
  10/5/2015 17:51 EST

The DIAN is desperate. Many Colombians as well are finally just realizing they have to pay taxes for the first time in history. THe new law change of 2013 is screwing everyone. They also chased out alot of big companies, like MAZDA for example. the new tax laws are really stupid. all these multinationals hauled ass and left close to 100,000 without jobs last year. thats just the big companies.

for expats it sucks. but their ways around the system for sure. they still rely heavily on what passes through colombian bank accounts as the number 1 method for audits. people that bring in monthly wires show up more as earning incomes. large wires are easier to declare as having paid taxes on in the past. if you pay taxes on income over seas then they will not double tax you.

taxes are a bitch no matter where you live. i still prefer colombia, but not because of tax shelters :)

if you own a company as a sole proprietor you can declare lots of expenses. get a chamber of commerce as a persona natural/sole proprietor, and save your receipts.

:)

fecherklyn
  10/5/2015 20:02 EST

@ColombiaGringo

You have stated ..."if you pay taxes on income over seas then they will not double tax you." I really do not see where you get this from as it is NOT the case as I understand it.

I pay income taxes in the UK and France, and then double them up in Colombia (where I am a tax resident and HAVE to declare my global incomes) because there are no ratified double taxation agreements in place at present.

If you can really explain to me how you can achieve what you are saying, then I shall be very grateful to you.

rafapark
  10/6/2015 16:45 EST

I undestand that there have to be a double taxation agreement between Colombia and specific countries to let you deduct taxes paid overseas. Not sure that Colombia has any of those agreements in place yet. I know at least in the US I can deduct taxes paid for my Colombian income when I report it to the IRS. I can't understand how a foreigner would want to live in Colombia with those stupid tax laws. Again, hold on to your seats. More taxes and new rules will come soon!

bigjailerman
  10/6/2015 17:15 EST

This is all relatively new..

thelocogringo
  10/6/2015 19:41 EST

Rafa, the boob headed legislatures that enacted these laws are the same ones that later go to jail for corruption, drug dealing, paramilitary conections and so forth. They just do not know what they are doing.

Later, the bureaucrats that run the DIAN, just ignore the laws that are counterproductive.

That is the reason I believe for a law to be valid, it must be inforced. Just writing it on a piece of paper does not make it valid.

Another thing, we are guest in thier country, never anything more.

Live big, enjoy and do not get too attached......

The Martin Plan.....

fecherklyn
  10/6/2015 20:09 EST

@Loco,

You may be right Loco....."for a law to be valid, it must be inforced".
This is exactly what I, and others are doing.......We have submitted our 2014 tax declarations including the full exonerations as usual, and now it is up to them (DIAN) to face up to what they are threatening. I and a host of others are readying ourselves to leave if they do rule our our exonerations (before incurring a similar liability in 2016) and make as much stink about it as possible.

rafapark
  10/7/2015 10:37 EST

That the law to be valid must be enforced statement is so true. But I would not risk playing with the laws with the hope that they are not enforced. The DIAN burocrats could be inept but DIAN has the technology to go after you here and abroad if they red flag you or you are chosen for a random audit. They have an information exchange agreement with the US that they signed this year I believe. I know somebody who already had problems with the DIAN because of checking account movements from foreign accounts. They might not go after you and you might be lucky, but you might not. I would not risk it.
What fecherklyn is doing is the right thing. I asked a DIAN agent a couple of months ago and she insisted that people would not get double taxed and that you can deduct your foreign taxes. Hopefully she is not one of the inept ones. So I believe it is correct to include foreign taxes as exceptions on lines 50 or 51 in the form 210. This will lower your taxes, unless you have renta presuntiva which does not get impacted by deductions.

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