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Bogota mess?

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dliss62
  5/19/2016 14:35 EST

I had dinner with a friend visiting from Bogota, who complained about the city being a complete mess! Specifically, the traffic, crime and unpleasant quality of life.

I have not been down there in a few years, but I thought all the infrastructure improvements that were being implemented would have improved the city by now. Also, I understand that there is urban sprawl happening in the area of Cajica north of Chia, which is one of the locations I was contemplating retirement. Any opinions from “boots on the ground” are appreciated!

timllowe
  5/19/2016 14:41 EST

Sounds like the Bogota I know. What's new about that?

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cafetero
  5/19/2016 14:45 EST

In my opinion your friend is 100% correct. I only lived there for a month before I bolted. It´s a huge city, 8 million people, with worn out infrastructure, corruption endemic throughout the system, insufficient annual budget, ad infinitum.
Crime is a problem because there isn´t enough money to hire and train police, and not enough money to pay police a decent salary so they don´t go taking kickbacks all the time. And because the judicial system is completely swamped. It takes a couple years to get a case heard. That results in probably half the crimes aren´t even reported and 95% of the murders go unsolved.

I liked that area around Chia quite a bit a few years ago. But like all cities in Colombia, the urban sprawl in Bogota is relentless.
A similar small town outside Medellin called Sabaneta, was a beautiful pueblo 7 years ago, with the most beautiful central park I´ve ever visited in all the dozens of towns and villages I´ve been.
Now there is a 20 story high rise on every corner and blotting out the skyline. Traffic is at a standstill many hours of the day as people try to get to work in the morning and back home in the evening to their skyscraper apartment.
Quite frankly, I wonder where are the people coming from to fill these new buildings?

dliss62
  5/19/2016 15:15 EST

Cafetero, interesting take. I'll add...not only are where the people are coming from, but where is money coming from?

SkyMan
  5/19/2016 19:31 EST

It seems that Bogota has not changed from 30 years ago.....
life goes on..."Bogota-style"
Too large, with too little infrastructure, plus all the minuses.
That's the Bogota that I know.

BrandonBP
  5/19/2016 23:12 EST

I just spent 3 months in Bogota. It's a dangerous cesspool with graffiti and trash everywhere.

Even their monuments have spray paint on them. I was riding mountain bikes with a girl and we passed the statues of Christopher Columbus and Isabella, and the statues were grafittied and filthy. Even if you don't give a sh1t about your poor in the barrios, at least have some prisoners clean up your monuments honoring your heroes.

Bogota has many redeeming qualities. I love the weather and the abundance of things to do. I had fun there, but if I were giving advice to a first time traveller flying into Bogota, I'd tell them to catch the first bus out of town.

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thelocogringo
  5/20/2016 07:11 EST

The city is a reflection of the people who live there.

Leelet
  5/20/2016 12:53 EST

I am a 70 year old single female who just returned from 3 months in Bogata. During my stay, I found Bogata to be a charming, sophisticated city filled with warm and lovely people. Bogata offers culture, excellent restaurants, nightlife, and helpful friendly residents.

As a solo woman traveling to Bogata, I was pleasantly surprised by the city. So much so, that I am now packing for permanent relocation to Bogata.

I went to Bogata with no preconceptions. I went to all neighborhoods and walked La Candeleria frequently alone.

True, traffic is a nightmare but I am from Southern California so I am accustomed to traffic congestion.

Aside from the traffic, I had no negative experiences and feel quite comfortable about moving to Bogata.

(Regarding crime, use the same good sense you would in any large city anywhere in the world. Crime is not unique to Bogata.)

timllowe
  5/20/2016 13:46 EST

There ARE good restaurants and the Candelaria is charming. But other than that...

If you think the people in Bogota are friendly, you need to get out into the rest of the country. They are Colombian New Yorkers.

thelocogringo
  5/20/2016 14:00 EST

Even a broken clock is correct twice per day.

cafetero
  5/20/2016 15:36 EST

Believe it or not, for what its worth, Bogota has a similar, within 10%, crime rate as Washington DC.
Here´s one website to scan:
http://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Colombia&city1=Washington%2C+DC&city2=Bogota&tracking=getDispatchComparison

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novato1953
  5/20/2016 16:21 EST

Say what you will about Bogota, but the level of excellence routinely reached in municipal services means the city has only rarely been gridlocked by paralyzing blizzards, at least in recent years.

BrandonBP
  5/20/2016 19:58 EST

Yeah, I walked around Bogota, too, for a couple of months without any problems. Everything is kittens and rainbows until you wake up in a Bogota hospital with no passport, wallet, cellphone, money, or credit cards and no place to stay because you have no money or any way to get more money.

The difference between D.C. and Bogota is that every second taxi in D.C. isn't going to divert me to the barrios so his buddies can rob me.

I've been to five continents. I've been to some truly sh1tty sh1tholes in my life - some places that rank much higher than Bogota in the World's Most Dangerous Cities list. But I've always been able to take care of myself and get out of situations when I sensed trouble.

But Bogota finally got me. And they got me good. It only takes one time to change your perspective.

LaPiranha
  5/21/2016 00:32 EST

I travelled to Bogota for up to 2 months every year for 15 years, and have now been living here in Bogota for just over two and a half years. Not once in all that time have I ever felt threatened or intimidated, or suffered a crime. The people I meet on the streets are some of the friendliest I have met in the whole world, and i have travelled to well over 30 countries.

I can't agree with your description of Bogota as a "dangerous cesspool", and think maybe you are biased because you got robbed? Did that really happen to you? If so, I would say you were very unlucky, just like a person visiting New York or London, who also gets robbed.

Yes, there is traffic, but come on, its the capital city of Colombia, and in any capital city you're gonna find traffic. Lots and lots of it. Are you trying to say there is no traffic in NYC or Washington DC, or London, or Rome?

Of the thousands of taxis I take, and yes, I hail them on the street, not once has any driver taken me to the FARC as a kidnap victim for a massive ransom, and the same goes for all my friends and family too. Yes, it did happen (very rarely, many years ago), but these past few years it has become pretty safe.

And yes, there is graffiti too. Again, I ask if there is no graffiti in NYC or any of the other capitals.

And when I last visited Detroit a few years back, when it was still thriving, the iron bars at all the windows, the streets knee-deep in sh1t and garbage, the violence, the robberies, the pure stink of the place puts Bogota on a pedestal as a paradise on earth. And Detroit has really deteriorated since I last went, so heaven knows what its like today.

Ok, maybe you were unlucky, or maybe you were wearing your wealth on your sleeve, or simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, or even just dropped your guard momentarily, I can't answer that. But my own experience over 17 years is the complete opposite.

Sorry, but I have to give an alternative opinion, for no-one's experiences are all the same. There are 2 sides to every story. This is mine.

pocopelo
  5/21/2016 08:01 EST

You are correct Piranha, there are two sides to every story. It pays to take care of yourself no matter where. I always enjoyed Bogota for walking (often faster than taking transportation depending on the time of day!). But there are plenty of cons on the street there. And whenever I hail a taxi I take a photo of the plate and the driver's ID and make sure that the driver knows I'm sending it on.

BrandonBP
  5/21/2016 08:24 EST

"Did that really happen to you? If so, I would say you were very unlucky,"
------------------

I was almost "very unlucky" with taxis two other times during my most recent three months in Bogota. The case officer at the US embassy who conducted my interview for an emergency passport told me that taxi robberies against US citizens happen daily, especially in Chapinero where I took an ambulance ride after being robbed by a taxi and his two buddies and then dumped out on my face unconscious onto the sidewalk.

I had already had a close call two days earlier with another taxi in Chapinero. He kept saying he was taking me to a party with hot chicas and wouldn't stop or turn around. I was screaming at the driver and finally yelled that I was going to hit him as hard as I could if he didn't stop the car. He then stopped and said I owed him 20 mil for taking me 12 blocks in the wrong direction. I didn't pay him and he drove away as I was calling 999 to ask for the police.

The very next time I took a taxi right after being robbed was in Fontibon to, ironically, go to the big Fed Ex center to pick up my package containing my replacement MasterCard and ATM card. He got onto the highway, which didn't seem right, but I don't know Bogota well enough to know for sure. He was texting someone the whole time which I didn't like because I was already on edge about having just been robbed 9 days earlier. When he got off the highway, I could see the addresses. We were 42 blocks farther away from Fed ex than where we started. I got him to let me out at a busy intersection. I then hailed a new cab with an older, sort of timid man. He took me all the way back to Fontibon the exact route I had just come with the other guy. I told the old man what had just happened and he started shaking his head. I asked if he thought the other driver was lost, and he gave me a sad look in the rearview mirror and said, "No senor. I don't think he was lost."

Truly, if you live in Bogota, I'm more than a bit incredulous at your incredulity. You live in that city and talk to Bogotenos every day of your life and watch the local news, yet you find it dubious that a gringo got robbed by the local caspas? Your reaction is as if I claimed I came to Bogota and a unicorn attacked me.

We're on the internet, and anyone - even I - can make up stories. But I have nothing to gain from concocting anything I've said above. And for someone that lives in Bogota, ESPECIALLY someone who lives in Bogota, to convince future visitors in this forum that Bogota is just like walking through Miami, is just plain dishonest and irresponsible.

Remember this story? I was in Medellin and it was big news because the gringo victim happened to be a US agent.

"Seven Colombian taxi drivers extradited to U.S. in DEA agent's death"
http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-colombia-extradite-dea-agents-20140701-story.html

novato1953
  5/21/2016 10:43 EST

Slandering Detroit can be dangerous. Consider yourselves warned.

thelocogringo
  5/21/2016 10:48 EST

Well, having actually lived in Bogota, Lived in Cartagena and now living in Uraba, the heart of the red zone, I can say with out a doubt, in regards to the personal safety of a foreigner, Bogota is a mess.

To compare Detroit, a failed city and an embarrassment for all Americans to Bogota, well that is a fair assesment.

To compare Washington DC to Bogota, one of the most crime ridden citys in America and the only city I know of where a Mayor is caught on video buying crack, goes to prison, is released and then is re elected, well that is a fair comparison to Bogota and its nefarious Mayors.

Bogota is the only city in Colombia where I have been personally threatened, face to face to face with boldly harm, in full public view while I asked for help and the people around just ignore my request for help.

Is every Bogotano a coward and or thief, of course not, just most of them.

There are 10 million people there, perhaps there is a million or so that are not scum bags.

I have been to most every corner of this country and only have to ask for police help in Bogota.

All this considered, I still make my way there several times a year, they have some great resturants, plenty of girls and if you need somthing special, you can find it.

When in Bogota, I am double carefull, trust no one, try not to be out alone, never go any where alone at night, never have anything of value on me, try not to be noticed as a foriener, keep my voice down so my bad spanish does not give me away, only go to known safe areas, always know where I am, keep aleart as to who is close by, always have an escape plan and make sure some one knows where I am and checks in on me twice daily to make sure I am safe.

Just follow some simple rules and for sure your visit to Bogota will be some what, kinda safe.

This is my Experience........

GringoPaisa
  5/21/2016 11:41 EST

I am not a fan of Bogota either, its WAY to much like Los Angeles, if you are from LA i could see why you would like it, lol. One time me and my wife(Ex now and she and the step kids are Colombian but we met in the US) got a hotel. It was 100 bucks a night, As soon as they saw the "gringo" it went up to 150. There was no negotiating, it was 150 or go somewhere else, well, i will never go back to Bogota for that reason. Medellin is a much nicer friendlier place. After many years traveling there, i consider myself a "Paisa". In 15 years or so when i retire, will be a permanent Paisa.

jonrod888
  5/21/2016 12:47 EST

Two different people can look a pile of dog crap and one saying it smells like sh*t, the other says it smells like roses. Comparing it to other piles of dog crap doesn't make the smell any better. Many parts of Bogota stink and dangerous and getting worse. Not 100% get robbed or killed but it's a high probability.

LaPiranha
  5/21/2016 13:06 EST

Brandon, thanks for sharing the details. Yes, I do believe you, and have absolutely no doubts whatsoever about the legitimacy of your posts. It will indeed serve as advice and warning to anyone who is considering coming to not only Bogota, but Colombia in general too.

You were truly unlucky, not only once, but for all the occasions you describe, and I do feel for you.

But by the same token, there are countless people that have had similar experiences to mine, too. I am not denying there is crime, for we all know that you'll find crime anywhere, and Bogota is no exception. But maybe if we look deeper into those situations, we might find clues as to why you were targeted so many times.

It could be that you just happened to be in the wrong areas. There are many areas that you simply don't go to, especially in the south of the city, and some areas towards the south and west too, including Fontibon. Chapinero is also a hotspot for mugging tourists, but as many of the city's attractions are around Chapinero area, its a risk that many of us decide to take, but knowing those risks so that we can be careful. Maybe the travel guides don't give sufficient advice, maybe you weren't aware that there are areas to avoid if you are an obvious gringo. It is much safer in the north of the city, and there are many areas where street robberies are very rare. Maybe this should be highlighted, and folk who are considering coming to Colombia or Bogota should be made aware of the bad areas.

Its like the first time I ever went to New York City. I decided to walk all the way up, from Battery Park, through Chinatown, Times Square, Central Park, and up through the Bronx. Of course, no-one ever told me the Bronx was one place you just didn't want to go. At that time, it was dangerous, but I didn't know. I was lucky, After they told me, I decided the next time I went up that way, I would take the subway, so late one night I took the subway, and I was witness to a gang robbing everyone in the carriage at knifepoint. Luckily before they got to me, it stopped at a station, and they all ran like hell. Again I was lucky, but it could have been so different. But I didn't know. Maybe its the same in Bogota? You should maybe ask people's advice, (friends, girlfriend, or people you are staying with) before you plan to go places, just to check out what its like?

If we are going to areas where you feel it may not be safe, then we should also look at ourselves too. Dress like the locals as much as you can, jeans and an old tee-shirt will blend in with the locals much better than fancy shirt and Chinos or shorts, wearing a nice watch. And try not to talk too much (or loudly), for our accents are a dead giveaway. Don't wear one of those money belts that all tourists seem to wear. What do people keep in a money belt? Money, of course, and not only do they know you are a tourist and carrying money, they also know exactly where it is. I always keep a few small notes and coins in one pocket, and the bulk of my money in another pocket. I don't carry my debit cards on me if I won't need to draw cash, and I always keep the money I won't need, at home, so if I do get robbed, they won't get everything. At night I rarely ever carry my cellphone when out on the street. But I don't get intimidated, and love to go walking around the streets at night. Its so beautiful. I don't let security dominate my life, and so far I have been lucky. Maybe it will happen one day, but I keep the risks as small as can be, and if it does happen, they won't get much.

Good luck, and I hope your next visits are more successful.

LaPiranha
  5/21/2016 13:16 EST

Gringo Paisa. Don't worry, you're not alone. You get ripped off everywhere.

In London, its well known that if you stop and buy an ice cream, offer the guy a £50 note. He will give you a couple of pennies change. Like £50 (US$75) for an ice cream? Thousands of tourists get stung wherever you go.

In Paris, I was charged £8 (US$12) for one cup of coffee. I refused, and gave him about £3, and walked out. Did he call the police? Hell, no.

In Rome, in St Peter's Square, they wanted to charge me £38 for 2 coffees and 4 croissants. Did I pay? No way. What did they do? Nothing.

You have to walk away, like in your hotel, simply walk out and get another. But why say you'll never go back to Bogota again? It happens all over the world. You don't let things like that control your life, you simply say "No".

GringoPaisa
  5/21/2016 13:21 EST

This is all true, there are dangerous places no matter where you go. A couple truly amazing places to visit in Bogota that are a must are Monserrate and the gold museum. They are plenty more places to add to a bucket list in Bogota. But, when locals chase off tourism by doubling prices just because you are a foreigner, i stay away. I don't understand that way of thinking, to chase off the very thing that is making you money.

GringoPaisa
  5/21/2016 13:30 EST

In response, the Hostel was set up previously before we even left the US. It was midnight when we got in and there was nowhere else to go. You pay in advance and there was no, not paying the price, they wouldn't let us to the room unless the 150 was paid. I guess i just like the flavor and culture of Medellin better and i guess having 1-2 dozen of my "Colombian" family around me at all times make a huge difference as well.

LaPiranha
  5/21/2016 13:52 EST

Yeah, I guess they had you by the balls, arriving at midnight, leaving little option to go somewhere else. I guess I would feel pretty sore too, I hope you didn't leave a tip? Haha

Yes, its sad that they do that, killing the goose that lays the golden egg. They rely on tourism, but they don't realise the damage they are doing to their own industry.

jonrod888
  5/21/2016 17:29 EST

Yes, just say "No". That's why I only go to Bogota when I have to. There are plenty of other places to spend my time in Colombia where I can relax and enjoy ... Bogota is a "been there, done it, not worth the trouble for a return". And yes, Bogota ranks with the best of the world scam cities ... fake money, fake gold, extortion, ruthless, scopalomine, etc.

BrandonBP
  5/21/2016 19:42 EST

In a city with 8 million people, I was at least expecting to find decent cheese. I was wrong.

LaPiranha
  5/21/2016 23:24 EST

Ha, so you are a cheese addict too, Brandon? Yeah, its horrible not having anything you can call cheese. Love the real matured stuff, the type that bites you back when you eat it.

The nearest I've found is in Exito and Carulla, they do one, called Borden, American sharp Cheddar. Its nowhere near perfect, but its the best I've found so far.

chilango
  5/21/2016 23:26 EST

go to pricesmart. many american cheeses from wisconsin.

BrandonBP
  5/22/2016 03:12 EST

I did like Carulla. I bought a blue cheese and a wine one night. I never saw any Monterrey Jack or colby which puts a damper on making Mexican food. Ever tried making quesadillas with waxy shredded mozzarella?

I never could find any basil or okra or chili powder either. I know it's not home, and that's why I travel, because it's NOT home. But sometimes you miss certain things you're used to. Like public toilet options... :)

Here's another random thought... Why do Colombian shops call themselves cigarerrias but only have a single flavor of a single brand of cigarette?

I see so many things that make me scratch my head when I'm down there. I tried to buy some data minutes for my phone at a Claro store in Bogota. Not a tienda that also sells cellular minutes on the side, mind you, but a CLARO store. No es posible. Can you imagine going to a Verizon store and them saying, "Nah, we don't sell Verizon sh1t here."

I love the place and the people, but dang they so crazy.

cafetero
  5/22/2016 10:00 EST

All that stuff is available at Price Smart, except chili powder which I haven´t found anywhere recently. Once I found it at Exito in small packets.
The Claro stores sell plans but not minutes. Every other store on the street sells minutes though, so you never go lacking.
What makes Colombia unique is the oddities. Otherwise it would be like every other country, boring.

Andresen
  5/22/2016 10:03 EST

Oddities? How about an Exito restroom with the large toilet paper dispensers mounted OUTSIDE the stalls!

timllowe
  5/22/2016 10:33 EST

Plan ahead.

LaPiranha
  5/22/2016 10:46 EST

Andresen, ..... you are joking? Surely?

LaPiranha
  5/22/2016 10:48 EST

Cafetero. Chili powder at Jumbo.

(They are the people who bought out the Carrefour chain in Colombia).

Andresen
  5/22/2016 11:47 EST

I'm not joking about the toilet paper dispensers.

timllowe
  5/22/2016 11:49 EST

And I'm not kidding about the need to stick to your Boy Scout roots. BE PREPARED. It's more important in Colombia. ;)

Andresen
  5/22/2016 11:51 EST

Yep, that's the motto of the Boy Scouts. Kudos for not forgetting!

timllowe
  5/22/2016 11:55 EST

Of course! I'm trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrift, brave, clean and reverent too. Well, 10 out of 12 ain't too bad. ;)

Andresen
  5/22/2016 12:02 EST

And, do you remember the Boy Scout slogan?

timllowe
  5/22/2016 12:03 EST

Do a good looking trick daily?

Andresen
  5/22/2016 12:14 EST

Lol. That sounds like the adult version!

cafetero
  5/22/2016 12:49 EST

Ah, but that´s normal in Colombia. If you need paper you get it on the way into the stall. You can also use it on your way out after washing your hands.
Usually there isn´t ANY paper, and often not even a toilet sit, you sit on the rim of the bowl.
So I got in the habit of carrying my own TP in my backpack or belt pack.
I also use toilet paper as ear plugs on the city buses that are so freaking noisy, especially when they are blasting that god awful reggae.

cafetero
  5/22/2016 13:05 EST

freaking spell check is horrible on this site......I meant to say ¨no toilet seat¨......

Back on topic, here´s an article that shows how bad Medellin and Bogota USED to be, but now that level of violence is playing out in several states in Mexico instead....
https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-soldiers-swarm-mexicos-acapulco-killings-continue-040340266.html

GringoPaisa
  5/22/2016 13:34 EST

Dont forget, most public restrooms you will need 600 pesos to use them,

8901
  5/23/2016 18:45 EST

Holy Christ !

Cafetero Does everybody in your barrio walk around with toilet paper or do you just dump allot ???

I mean if I retired to a place where I had to walk around with toilet paper to clean my rectum and my hands with then I'm on the next bus back home to the U.S.

What barrio are you living in ?????

cafetero
  5/23/2016 19:21 EST

8901 since you´ve never been to Colombia let me enlighten you. With the exception of only a few places, you either bring your own toilet paper or you use water from the bowl to clean your butt.
In a few places, like big bathrooms like bus terminals and airports there is, as others have pointed out, a large roll on the wall outside the stalls.
I can´t recall ever seeing toilet paper rolls inside the stalls of a public bathroom.
As pointed out, there is a charge for using the bathroom, ranging from 300 pesos to 1 mil. Sometimes the attendant gives you a little plastic wrapped toilet paper, maybe 2 or 3 pieces, not more.
Since this is the way it is in Colombia I suggest you stay home.
And, since your tone is rather accusatory and aggressive I´ll not explain it further to you.
I´m always happy to share information and knowledge with anyone who asks politely.
But some people aren´t really interested in sharing, they just want to fight. Nuff said.

BrandonBP
  5/23/2016 19:38 EST

Toilet paper costs money. And Colombians don't give away free stuff. Just carry tissue with you. It's the solution that any civilized person would employ.

JasonWriter
  5/23/2016 19:44 EST

Yeah now that it's being mentioned, I remember that was the first thing that blew my mind about South America (Peru and Colombia): regular lack of toilet seats on the toilets, usually no toilet paper, and the need to pay to use the restrooms. Well the first thing that blew my mind was the drive from Medellin airport to Medellin, the gorgeous, hilly landscape. But at some gas station on the way there I encountered the bathroom situation, and that was number 2. Puns galore there, eh? In traveling with more world-weary people, it turns out there are a lot of places in the world with no toilet seats and a requirement to pay to use the washroom. And as for toilet paper: we all know about bidets, etc, so toilet paper is optional in many places around the world, clearly.

BrandonBP
  5/23/2016 19:45 EST

Actually I misspoke above about Colombians not giving away free stuff.

Guaro is sometimes free. Plus, in Medellin and Bogota the free guaro also comes with free scopolimine.

8901
  5/23/2016 20:39 EST

Thanks for the enlightenment but coming from a man who cleans his whole with water from a toilet I think I'll pass.

I got to admit you make my day sometimes with the sh_t you come out with (pun intended).

Call me a prude but I just opt to pay the toilet lady an extra 500 pesos ( 20 cents) and get enough paper to do the job like I learned in the civilized world.

If we ever meet in person I hope you understand if I don't shake hand but I'll gladly buy you a roll of Charmin so you can party hardy !

Andresen
  5/23/2016 20:45 EST

Some restrooms have a vending machine where you can buy a package of TP for 200 pesos to use then or carry with you.

thelocogringo
  5/23/2016 20:48 EST

8901, I always travel with my own supply. This is third world for christ sakes.......

Go to India and eat in public with your left hand, then you will understand.

TheLocoPooper

Andresen
  5/23/2016 21:24 EST

I recall paying a few rubles to a babushka to use a restroom in Gorky Park in Moscow. Behind curtains I saw footprints in the floor where you are to put your feet and a hole in the floor. Sure glad I only had to pee.

cafetero
  5/23/2016 21:41 EST

Same thing in many places in Asia, a hole in the floor with a place for your feet on each side. Sometimes there is a little tank of water on the wall and you pull the chain to let the water splash into the hole and wash your hands at the same time.
More recently in Japan I saw a very clever toilet that when you flushed it the fresh water coming in to refill the tank came through a faucet in a little sink on top of the tank. As you washed your hands the dirty water went on to fill the tank for the next flush. Very clever idea.
Yes LG, you are correct. It´s a third world country and not likely to change much in our lifetimes. Some foreigners who have these fake sensibilities really should stay away. Imagine if they came face to face with a chicken head floating in the soup, or a fish head complete with eyes! They´d probably crap their pants.

guanamby
  5/31/2016 04:25 EST

As a Bogotana I'm so so pleased you have had wonderful experience in our "sufrida Bogotá.
Good luck with your relocation.

scumbuster
  5/31/2016 21:54 EST

I lived 1.5 hr outside Bogotá for 2 years with regular excursions into Bogota. If it wasn't for the traffic it wouldn't be half bad. I like the Usaquen area north to Chia. Climate it to my liking. Colombians are not great about throwing trash out. If there eating a candy bar they don't think twice about just tossing the wrapper on the ground. There is lots of graffiti and trash around. If you don't need a car and can walk to most things you need, with an occasional bus or taxi its not bad. I would want to have things I needed to do within walking distance. Chia is getting quite congested during rush hours and the autopista in the morning and mid afternoon to evening is horrific. We just sold our place outside Bogota and will be trying Bogota for probably a year to see how we like it. I will also want to be near a decent size park for jogging. The city on a whole isn't great but there are some nice areas where I think someone would enjoy living. I have owned a car since I was 16 yrs old and never thought I could live without one. We sold it and I would not own one in Bogota.

scumbuster
  5/31/2016 22:04 EST

And I too carry toilet paper with me. I didn't read every post here but did anyone mention they don't make toilet seats in Colombia.. LOL
I guess its become normal to not have a toilet seat so much that I don't even think about it any more. I imported one from the states for home ;-P

Andresen
  5/31/2016 23:02 EST

Anyone else occasionally receiving emails with no content?

8901
  5/31/2016 23:51 EST

I feel Bogota and all of Colombia is dangerous. Not so dangerous that it prevents me from going often and wherever my whim takes me within reason of course.

I got to admit I sometimes press the envelope by being out later than I should and alone. That said I of yet have never in more than 10 + years have had an incident but I know that can change in an instant.

The one thing that irks me is the guys that want to deny the reality of the situation and when members come forth with and share their mishaps the other members who attempt to blame the victim with statements like " Well maybe you were wearing your wealth out on your sleeve" or "Well maybe you were in the wrong part where you shouldn't of been " As if to infer that the perpetrators of these incidents would never had committed these crimes had it not been for the victims actions and thereby assigning him .. the victim the blame

I assure you the perpetrators were out to commit a robbery and choose the best target they found within that window of time that they determined they were going to execute within.

If they did not encounter the member the target could of just as randomly become an older poor woman, a housewife, a regular Colombiano etc. The only fault the victim can be assigned in 9 out of 10 of these occurrences is the random bad luck of his path crossing with the perpetrators.

SkyMan
  6/1/2016 08:39 EST

8901, I have traveled to Colombia
many times on biz...and I totally agree with your post. There are things each person can do to lessen their chances of being involved in a violent crime, but where you are and when you are there...are two(2) very important factors. Your words were well-chosen and should be received
as the truth.

BrandonBP
  6/1/2016 11:54 EST

8901,

I appreciate what you said. It makes me ill also that I got robbed and it was my fault that I was giving away my "papaya." I don't wear any jewelry in Colombia or pull out my smart phone in town.

But that's what some people, even expats, think. That it must have been MY fault that some dirtbags were looking to rob a gringo and got me. The girl I was dating even said that later; I thought she was playing at first, but she wasn't.

I asked, "So, I deserved to get robbed because I was a white guy walking around Bogota?"

She said, "Si. Everyone knows that if you're a white middle aged guy walking around Bogota that you're asking to get robbed. You should have had a Colombian with you and no one would have messed with you."

So, I told her that that's asinine as hell. That's like telling a rape victim, "Well, you shouldn't have been wearing makeup and a skirt and looking so damn pretty and no one would have raped you."

I also told her to stop making excuses for her scumbag parceros. If you'll click on the link I left above about the DEA agent that was knifed to death by a taxi robbery gang, you'll read that they took down 8 more taxi robbery gangs right afterwards. The taxi robberies are RAMPANT in Bogota to the point of absurdity. The only reason that case got any action from the Bogota policia was because it was a U.S. agent. The police that interviewed me at the hospital didn't give a single f+ck about me getting robbed. They only showed up because the hospital staff called them. They took my name and birthday and then left. They didn't want to know the locations to find surveillance videos or nada. The police in Bogota are lazier, more rotten scumbags than the taxi robbers.

If it sounds like I'm still angry after 3 months, I am. The robbers in Bogota operate with impunity. The police don't give a flying f+ck, and neither do the Bogotenos living there. I was just another dumb gringo that was stupid enough to be white in Bogota. Yes, it's my fault for being white.

BrandonBP
  6/1/2016 12:04 EST

Here's another story to show that even the Colombians know how f+cked up the crime is.

I had to travel by bus from Bogota to Medellin to catch my flight back to the States. The airport in Medellin is about an hour outside the city. I went up front to ask the driver if we were close to the airport, and he said we'd already passed it. God forbid they tell me when to get off. They knew they had a Gringo on the bus going to the damn airport because I friggin told them twice.

So I told him to let me out and I'd find a taxi to take me back to the airport. He said no way, Jose, I'll drop you off at the bus station. So people keep getting off this bus, and I'm like, "Why can't you just let me out like everyone else that's getting off?"

So the driver said, "Senor, if I let you out on this highway, these taxis will rob you. You're white and alone and it's the middle of the night. I promise you, you'll get robbed."

So I told him I'd already been robbed in Bogota by a taxi and that I appreciated him taking care of me. The conductor got off soon after to walk home and he stood with me until we found a small van going back to the airport that he deemed safe for me. I was glad they helped me, but it showed that my paranoia wasn't unrealistic. Even they knew that the taxis were going to screw me sideways if I hailed one on the highway.

dliss62
  6/1/2016 14:35 EST

Brandon,

Your experience with crime is truly unfortunate and you have my sympathies.

Your “gringo” appearance may make you a more viable target, but know that the crooks in Bogota are equal opportunity axxholes!

You are correct about the DEA Agent because the Agency works closely with the Colombian CNP and are able to monitor and direct the progress of the investigation. I know this because I worked at the embassy for many years. I also personally know many Colombians (including my wife) that were victimized.

The embassy has rules that employees are mandated to follow, but unfortunately, some choose not to and the result can be dreadful.

Embassy rules:

1.Employees are forbidden to take public transportation (buses & transmileneo).

2.Taxis only to be taken if taxi is requested and trip recorded by dispatcher or hotel/restaurant concierge.

3.Hailing a taxi on the street is a NO NO!

4.Employees are periodically restricted from traveling to other cities via terrestrial routes and must make trip via aircraft.

5.Manny rural areas in Colombia, especially to the south and west are off limits because of insurgent presence.

I was not happy with these restrictive rules when I arrived, but soon realized that they made sense and fortunately I was never victimized. I’m sure luck played a role, but I always planned my “comings and goings” that helped me to stay safe.

The crime factor in Colombia, especially Bogota, is our number one concerning issue in considering retirement in Colombia.

Epicatt2
  6/1/2016 14:54 EST

So after the remarks about not hailing taxis on the streets and only using one if is it a radio taxi dispatched per a phone cal to a taxi co., then how about Uber?

Is Uber availalbe & reliable in Colombia & is it safer to use than radio taxis? I'm actually referring here to Uber in Medellín, not Bogotá...

Just curious after the above discussions.

Paul M.
==

scumbuster
  6/1/2016 17:04 EST

I have never tried Uber in Colombia, but another forum I visit has several members that use Uber and like it. The biggest discouragement in using in in Colombia is the violence from Taxi drivers.

GringoPaisa
  6/1/2016 23:21 EST

There was recently some striking in Colombia over Uber and Taxi drivers complaining about competing with uber. As far and the toilet paper thing(gross subject) I go right from the toilet to the shower every morning when i am there, eliminates the need for TP. You can program your body to go at a certain time every day.

SkyMan
  6/2/2016 08:46 EST

I'll be arriving in Medellin on June 15th and need some "boots on the ground in Medellin" info on the taxistas. Am I correct that only a
radio-dispatched Taxi is safe to use ? Any help will be greatly appreciated. It's my first trip to Medellin an a few years, so I need to know about how it is today.

Andresen
  6/2/2016 09:35 EST

I've been in Medellin a little over 3 years and I don't ever remember using a radio-dispatched taxi. Maybe I've just been lucky but I'm often with a Colomniana if that makes a difference.

guestuser
  6/2/2016 09:43 EST

If you've cell phone coverage using one of the local apps like tapssi a reliable and safe way to get a cab, However you'll need to know the address of where you are and where you are going to. During the day hailing a taxi in the better parts of the city shouldn't result in any issues. Being in a less safe place at night, being less than sober and walking over to a cab that's just standing there might produce a different result.

BrandonBP
  6/2/2016 10:50 EST

I never had any issues with taxis in Medellin, but I wouldn't take it for granted. Taxi robberies are rife in Bogota, but they still happen frequently in Medellin.

It's very easy for them to take you off into the barrios for their buddies to rob you because they know you have no idea where you are or where they're taking you. Watch the addresses on the streets to make sure you're going the right direction. If you're getting farther away, then get out of the taxi. And don't even pay his ass. I'm serious about this, DON'T pay him. Stand on the sidewalk and tell him to call the police. He's not going to because he was just caught trying to rob you.

A good rule of thumb is don't hail taxis off the street. There's a reason that bus terminals take your ID info and assign you a taxi - because of the rampant robberies. When your hotel calls, there's a record. You'll be fine. And when your hotel gives you the taxi registration number, use it. Just because you're standing out on the sidewalk waiting on your cab and one stops to pick you up, doesn't mean that's the right one. Maybe he just noticed a gringo waiting on the curb and stopped to get you to take you to Bello and rob you. Oh, and stay out of Bello at night. Nothing good happens to gringos in Bello after dark.

Many times you can't avoid hailing a taxi from the street. If you must, then take a photo of the taxi's registration and tag and then email it to a friend. Let the driver see you do it. He'll understand, because he'll know the danger you're in being a gringo in Colombia.

And since it happened to me in Medellin, I'll tell you this, also... If some plain-clothes "detectives" approach you, just walk away. Say "No speakie speakie Spanish" and just leave. They're likely not detectives, but rather scammers that will seize your "counterfeit money." On my third day in Medellin they almost got me, but I called 999 (like our 911) and was explaining to the police that I wanted some uniformed cops to come to my location. While I was on the phone, these 3 "detectives" hauled ass. They look very professional and are dressed like plain-clothes police and had credentials with their photos and all.

I was told by another American expat later that the Medellin police have cracked down on these scams, and they're rarer now. But they still almost got me, so don't fall for it.

So, not to scare you, but the danger is still real in Colombia. I spent a good bit of time down there and got complacent. I felt safe after a while, and I shouldn't have. I've talked to too many other expats that have told me that robberies and druggings and pickpocketing and scams are very real, and still, I let my guard down. Colombia is a very gorgeous place, and you're making a great decision to go visit, but you have to watch your ass.

BrandonBP
  6/2/2016 11:03 EST

I was just watching youtube vids about Colombia, and the poor hipster guy using his GoPro got pickpocketed in Candelaria, Bogota while filming his travel video. He felt something on his hair and then some ladies bumped into him, and then he realized his wallet was gone.

Poor guy, he said he had all his money and credit cards in his wallet. I know that feeling to suddenly find yourself in a foreign place with no money and no way to get any and trying to figure out how you're going to eat and survive until you can get cash sent.

But the comments below the video really p1ssed me off. Of course it was his fault he got his wallet stolen. They were saying, "That's a dumb place to keep your wallet, in your back pocket. You should have known better." And on and on. This is why thievery is so rampant, because Colombians figure if you got robbed then it was your own fault. What an attitude to have about crime.

scumbuster
  6/2/2016 13:01 EST

When I leave the house I only carry a little more than I think I will need in a day. Never take my debit card or CCs. I only have cash and my cedula. Big bills in one pocket if needed and small bills in the other. Then if I pull money out its all small bills. It seemed odd at first not carrying a wallet but now I am used to it and it feels normal.

mtbe
  6/2/2016 13:36 EST

I never carry a wallet in Colombia.

- Like others: carry money in separate front pockets, zipped pockets if you have them. I've used a safety pin to 'lock' the pocket too (when traveling to Europe...haven't done it in Colombia...yet).
- credit cards/cedula/license/etc...wrap in a rubber band or two and keep in front pocket. The rubber band makes it more difficult to remove.
- Keep the phone number and account #s of your cards somewhere else
- be careful of the mustard/bird poop/ketchup on your shirt. Somebody will squirt it on you and then 'help' you clean it off...while pick pocketing you. Same thing if someone drops change or a roll of bills...just keep walking.

I've had problems in Spain with these nuisances more than anywhere else. Have not had problems in Colombia...knock on wood.

Never get in a standing taxi. When ever we leave a place, we always will call for one, or walk a few blocks and get one driving by (less chance, but still a risk).

dliss62
  6/2/2016 14:24 EST

Great safety discussion!

Let’s not forget the cute chicas that think you are the bomb and put scopolamine hydrobromide (scope) in you drink! You then find yourself practically naked and disoriented in a bad part of town.

During my tour at the Embassy, I had to rescue several guys that were victims of this scam. The criminals usually operate in groups and the objective is not only to take you money, but to get you debit card pin number as well. Sometimes, they will hold you overnight till the next banking day so they can withdraw the limit again before letting you go.

If hot chicas are all over you, take a minute and go the bathroom (with your drink) and look in the mirror. Do you see Brad Pitt there?

The safer bet is the chicas YOU approach, but always keep an eye on the booze!

Here is more background on scope…

“One common and particularly dangerous method that criminals use in order to rob a victim is through the use of drugs. The most common has been scopolamine. Unofficial estimates put the number of annual scopolamine incidents in Colombia at approximately 50,000. Scopolamine can render a victim unconscious for 24 hours or more. In large doses, it can cause respiratory failure and death. It is most often administered in liquid or powder form in foods and beverages. The majority of these incidents occur in night clubs and bars, and usually men, perceived to be wealthy, are targeted by young, attractive women. To avoid becoming a victim of scopolamine, one should never accept food or beverages offered by strangers or new acquaintances or leave food or beverages unattended. Victims of scopolamine or other drugs should seek immediate medical attention.”

HelloFromAndrew
  6/2/2016 14:32 EST

Brandon. Yes it is a dumb place to keep your wallet. How many times do I walk down the street and see bulging wallets in some dumb-ass pocket, often hanging out, so perfect for taking. And you can bet your life that everything he owns of importance is in that damn wallet, credit cards, money, cedula, ......


There is none so blind as he who will not see.

WhoaNellie
  6/2/2016 18:05 EST

Also it's best to have in one pocket, preferably a front pocket, paper bills of small value - only 1000, 2000, 5000 and maybe 10,000, and some monedas for change - many places on the street can't even give you change (or don't want to) if you present a 20,000 or higher, plus that marks you as someone who's got money.

If you have zippered pockets, use them. Don't keep everything in one pocket where it's ripe for the picking.

So many crimes in Colombia (and the US too) are crimes of opportunity - so don't give them any opportunity if you can avoid it.

Andresen
  6/2/2016 21:30 EST

I use a fanny pack so no one can see how much money I have or which denominations. It's also much easier for me to pick out the specific bill I want. (Even in the States, for the past few years, I didn't carry a wallet mainly because I don't like sitting on the bulge.) Keeping large bills in one pocket and small in another isn't a bad idea either.

8901
  6/2/2016 22:49 EST

Yep and remember the old trick that if you are a victim of a robbery throw the money in your pocket with the small bills on the ground immediately.

It will startle the bandit(s) giving you a window to escape as they will go to retrieve the monies now strewn about on the ground.

Of course every scenario is different but it is best to have as many of these type of strategies at the ready and at your disposal to choose from.

drdirt
  6/4/2016 20:25 EST

There are several good cheese shops across from Carulla @ 125th. One is around the corner on Av 21

guanamby
  6/5/2016 17:26 EST

Lapiranha, thank you so much for giving the other version "the good one" of Bogotá. No need to be sorry.

Entirely agree. As any other city it has whatever problems. I know of various in incidents and know of a particular one, someone I know went to NY and at the airport went to get the hired car from a reputable company and it was robbed of money, watch and anything of value, this is NY. For what we know it can happen anywhere.

Bogotá and it's wonderful people offer much more than other cities: friendship, humility, kindness. You don't find this in other cities

jonrod888
  6/5/2016 18:49 EST

Below article from a few weeks ago states that 65% of Bogotanos were pickpocketed or mugged in 2015. I don't think 65% of New Yorkers were robbed. And 80% of Bogotanos feeling unsafe in their city.

http://thecitypaperbogota.com/bogota/mass-muggings-in-bogota-raise-security-concerns/12987

8901
  6/5/2016 22:22 EST

Good find jonrod888

LaPiranha
  6/5/2016 23:23 EST

Jonrod. Thanks for sharing that info and the link.

Whilst I have to say I do not doubt your sincerity or concern, I find the article totally misleading and contradictory. I do not believe those figures at all, and they only serve to compound the fears of people, especially expats who are already filled with stories of horrific crimes.

If we look at figures they quote earlier in the article, they tell us that over a 12 year period, (from 2003 til 2015), there was an increase from 102 cases per 100,000 citizens of Bogota in 2003, which is 0.102%, or one tenth of one percent of the population, rising to a figure last year of 337 cases per 100,000 citizens of Bogota, which is 0.337%, or a third of one percent of the population.

Then later in the article, they claim the figure last year is 65% of Bogota citizens were robbed in the first 6 months of last year. So in a full year that would represent every single person in Bogota would have been robbed, and a third of them would have been robbed twice. Absolute poppycock. I think they either made an unbelievable and massive error, or someone is just peddling hysteria and lies, or simply incompetent, and the article should never have been printed.

Ok, now going a little deeper, we look at the incident of that group of 12 hikers walking up through the Eastern Cerros Orientales. That is right up through the shanty towns in the hills, which are known for violence and crime, and it was extremely foolhardy to go walking through that barrio. Whoever planned or recommended that walk needs to account for the advice they gave, Again, as I said in an earlier post, there are some areas where you simply do not go, and surely, as they progressed on their walk, their instincts should have told them they were in a pretty foul place, and should have turned around and came back down.

I am the first to agree, that there is crime here in Bogota, the same as there is anywhere else in the world, but to ask us to believe those figures, that 65% of the population robbed in the first 6 months of last year, well, really, it doesn't help the reputation of Colombia one bit, and overshadows all the good things that you'll find here, and the generous and good nature of the people that you will meet here.

jonrod888
  6/6/2016 00:31 EST

The 65% robbed and 80% feel unsafe in the article are figures from the Bogota "Chamber of Commerce" survey done in Jun/Jul 2015... you analyzed the article but only read what you wanted to disagree with. I guess the "Chamber of Commerce" wants to paint a picture to discourage business/tourists or just tell the truth not a fable. The hikers "may" have been locals who knew the area and been there often ... the article does not say. I noticed you did not mention the situation in the Bronx section of Bogota. Below is some reading.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-police-crackdown-on-bogota-crack-den-exposes-children-used-as-sex-slaves-2016-6

jonrod888
  6/6/2016 00:32 EST

The 65% robbed and 80% feel unsafe in the article are figures from the Bogota "Chamber of Commerce" survey done in Jun/Jul 2015... you analyzed the article but only read what you wanted to disagree with. I guess the "Chamber of Commerce" wants to paint a picture to discourage business/tourists or just tell the truth not a fable. The hikers "may" have been locals who knew the area and been there often ... the article does not say. I noticed you did not mention the situation in the Bronx section of Bogota. Below is some reading.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-police-crackdown-on-bogota-crack-den-exposes-children-used-as-sex-slaves-2016-6

jonrod888
  6/6/2016 01:00 EST

Bogota has chased the drug addicts from the Bronx section ... but where do they go next and what affect will it have on other areas. Read below.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2016/06/03/bogota-must-deal-with-exodus-drug-addicts-after-bronx-district-closed/

jonrod888
  6/6/2016 08:18 EST

Mob lynchings in Bogota ... 1 every three days. This doesn't sound like a nice environment to me but one that is out of control and people tired of crime.

http://colombiareports.com/bogota-residents-average-lynch-1-person-every-3-days/

jonrod888
  6/6/2016 09:06 EST

Today's news story ... chop-up/torture houses are still used in Colombia.

http://colombiareports.com/keep-colombias-homicide-rate-low-dismember-dispose-victims-remains/

LaPiranha
  6/6/2016 09:46 EST

Jonrod. No, I read the whole article, but commented on the things I felt needed to be said.

Don't you see the contradiction? They state in the 10th paragraph, that in the whole of 2015 there were 337 robberies per 100,000 population. That is one third of one percent of the population. Then in the 17th paragraph, they state that in the first 6 months of 2015, 65% of the entire population were robbed. Which is it?

The claim that 65%, 2 out of every 3 people in Bogota, were robbed in the first 6 months of 2015 is utter cr@p. Not only that, but the previous year, 3 out of every 4 people in Bogota, (75% of the entire population) were robbed in the first 6 months of 2014. Rubbish, Just plain fantasy. But you should note that the first figure, of one third of one percent, was compiled by the district authorities, who have records of every crime reported. The second figure of 65% was compiled by the chamber of commerce, who do not have access to the figures. Of course, its perfectly possible that the chamber of commerce wanted to paint the picture, so that they could obtain more funding from the authorities for their members? Or any other ulterior motive.

But you are absolutely right about one thing. I did not mention the situation in the Bronx, where kids are drugged and used as sex slaves. But the article which you referred to, only related to robberies, and didn't mention that topic, and so I could neither agree or disagree with anything. But as you now mention it, yes, I am happy that at last the police have taken action, and also worry that it will simply shift somewhere else.

But there is one thing I don't quite understand. You appear to be quite vociferous in your attempts to spread fear and horror about the crime in Bogota, yet I understand you live in Medellin? You don't live here, and so I wonder exactly how much experience of living in Bogota you actually have? My own experience stretches over some 17 years here, and I think I know the capital city pretty good by now. Surely with your experience of living in Medellin, your time would be better spent detailing all the horrific crimes of the late Pablo Escobar, and how his legacy has left a culture of violence and crime in your own area? A city where the influence of the cartels on the local population has brought almost the whole local population of Medellin to a way of life which sees violence, robberies, murder as the norm, Where even some of our own members of the Colombia forum have been victims, and have paid the price of believing all the hype about how nice and peaceful a destination it is for people to retire in comfort, safety, and luxury. Its a myth. Don't believe all you read in the newspapers, or advertising brochures for exclusive properties for potential expats.

jonrod888
  6/6/2016 11:55 EST

You don't seem to understand or simply refuse to accept the truth. Let me put it so that a kindergartner and you will learn something. If someone puts a gun to my head and demands my cash/cell phone, I will give it to them. It happens in 30 seconds and he is gone. Will I then call police in Colombia ... of course "NOT" so there is no official statistic. Most Colombians will tell you the same. I have no cell phone to call from, the person is long gone, and the police may respond in over an hour if at all. It's just petty theft and it happens every day in Bogota on the Transmilinio, in buses, on bridges and in the street. All unreported to police since they can do nothing nor want to do anything about it. Ever hear of extortion of homeowners, car owners and business owners, even street vendors, in the form of paying a security fee. It's robbery and has become a normal way of living for most Colombians. So yes the 65% and earlier 73% robbery figures are accurate in light of 80% feeling unsafe. These are Survey/Poll numbers and are not manipulated to your satisfaction. People will report the crimes to pollsters on the phone or in the street or mall. The topic is "Bogota Mess" and yes I will respond and tell what I think of it. Like I stated earlier, I do not like going to Bogota for the high probability of problems ... robbery and possibly life threatening issues. I will not defend any problems in any part of Colombia ... You can defend Bogota all you want and even attack the messenger but the fact still remains that Bogota is a mess and getting worse. You can paint a beautiful lagoon for swimming but people need to know what dangerous creatures may be below the water's surface like flesh eating fish, piranha.

JasonWriter
  6/6/2016 18:26 EST

As someone headed for a 6 month stay in Medellin soon, I have to admit this thread sort of killed whatever desire I may have had to see Bogota. haha. I didn't have too much of a desire to visit it anyway, but I figured I'd get around to it. Now I think I'll just hold off for a while. Although my friend and former roommate, an American born in Bogota, is going there in September and invited me. I told him about this thread and he said, "We'll be good because I'm from there and know the ins and outs." We'll see

LaPiranha
  6/6/2016 22:04 EST

Jonrod. So you think that """ IF someone puts a gun to your head, you will give them your cellphone """, and you won't report it, that means that its proof that the 65% of the population have been robbed? Come off it. That's just pure Bo11ocks. It doesn't have any bearing on whether the figures are true or not. It just means that you'll roll over and hand over your stuff 'IF' it ever happens to you. Its got no bearing on the figures of actual incidents at all, merely what you personally would do in the future. I guess I might even do the same if I thought it was the better option, but to say that it corroborates the figures is simply cr@p.

The population of Bogota is officially about 7 million people. There are estimated to be about another 1 million who don't appear on the figures, some street dwellers, some displaced by the violence in other parts of Colombia, so we are talking 8 million approximately.

65% of the population got robbed in the first 6 months of 2015? so that means 5,200,000 people got robbed in 6 months? How utterly stupid can you get? There aren't even enough criminals in the place to do that.

Yes, there is crime, just like anywhere else in the world, and I have always agreed on that, and what you say is true, that you can get robbed in the Transmilenio, on a bus, in the street, or anywhere at all. But that still doesn't prove that 5 million two hundred thousand people got robbed in the first 6 months of last year. And even more ludicrous is that six million got robbed in the first half of 2014 too. (A million a month).

If we look at the recorded figures, 0.337% (337 people per 100,000 people) out of 8 million population, that works out at approximately 27 thousand robberies. That's a darn sight closer to the truth. Like a thousand robberies a week in the city. But a thousand a week, in a population of 8 million people says that the chances are you won't experience it, unless you are extremely unlucky. Yes it does happen to some unlucky folk, but 5,200,000? Thats pure fantasy.

I'm not having a go at you personally, but I sure am having a go at the people who compiled those figures. All they are doing is making people scared sh1tless to even come to the city. That's wrong, so, so wrong. And if I believe its wrong, then I should stand up and say so.

I hope you will re-think on whether its even possible.

LaPiranha
  6/6/2016 22:11 EST

Jason. Ask your friend if its true that 5,200,000 people got robbed in Bogota in the first 6 months of 2015. Or would 27,000 be nearer the mark? And that another 6 million got robbed in the same period of 2014. He's a Colombian. See what he thinks. It might be enlightening.

dliss62
  6/7/2016 14:21 EST

Gentlemen, all this arguing about statistics and percentages of how many people get robbed in Bogota takes away from the issue.

The fact is when walking out the door in Bogota; you have to be security conscious, particularly in stratus 6 neighborhoods. I love Bogota, because it’s a large metropolis and offers great restaurants, theater, and many things to do. I was disappointed with my friend’s recent sentiment that I posted at the beginning of this thread, and was hoping to hear that the city is getting better.

Unfortunately, that does not seem to be case, and living with insecurity really puts a damper on things. Yes, crime happens everywhere! I live and work in NYC, but feel much safer here than in Bogota. I also know that if someone tries to do me wrong, cops here respond in reasonable time and usually manage to catch the perp. It was not always like this, NYC was a cesspool in the 1970s and now it’s a tourist heaven.

I believe that Bogota has gotten so big that it’s simply unmanageable and the city government/police is always plagued with corruption and other issues.

jonrod888
  6/7/2016 15:03 EST

Unfortunately, this trend started 2 years ago and is getting worse throughout Colombia. With oil and coal tanking over the past year and half and China cutting back on raw materials, the economy is struggling and unemployment will follow. The only thing driving GDP is priice/inflation and I haven't heard of any strong/new economic areas for growth. With lack of police enforcement and over crowded jails, more people will turn to criminal activities to eat. Bogota use to be the go-to place to make money for Colombians but those days are over. What foreign investments have come into Bogota recently??

dliss62
  6/7/2016 17:38 EST

Good points jonrod, worldwide economic slow down is a problem for latin countries and Colombia is not immune. Crime in Bogota has always been a problem and seems like it will continue.

HOWEVER, take a look at the amount of wealthy people that live in Bogota and the very expensive real estate in the north of the city!
It appears that regardless, of the crime problem, many wealthy Colombians and foreigners opt to live there.

jonrod888
  6/7/2016 18:29 EST

Of course, in almost any city the rich will stay rich despite the economy. Bogota is the center of commerce for Colombia and wealth will be there. You notice that expensive restaurants once successful never close due to economic conditions since the rich will not stop going out to eat. The crime and robbery is growing among the middle to poor which is probably 90% of the population. Those that can afford to will shield themselves from crime and Bogota has it's normal percentage of affluent.

jonrod888
  6/7/2016 19:21 EST

Piranha, I 'm sure you will disagree with these numbers also ... but a little dated and probably higher now, 4,000 cell phones are estimated to have been stolen/robbed every day in Bogota in a report dated 2013. That's nearly 1,500,000 in a year. Cell phone robbery alone hits a large percent of the population. Another report stated that only 18,000 were reported to police.

http://colombiareports.com/bogota-mayor-responds-to-cell-phone-backlash/

SkyMan
  6/7/2016 19:37 EST

Isn't it about time to close out this topic ? Bogota has not changed in the past 35 years, and I have traveled to Bogota on business for many of those years. It is what is is...and what it has always been...for many, many years. Topic=Poof & you're gone !

LaPiranha
  6/7/2016 19:53 EST

Jonrod. I'll stay pending on this subject. I queried the figures with the citypaper, and even the editor agrees those figures are very strange, and 65% (5,200,000 robberies in 6 months), and 75% (6,000,000 the previous year) seems extraordinarily high, so they are checking out their sources and will report back. I'll let you know when I receive it.

Saludos

LaPiranha
  6/7/2016 20:00 EST

Skyman. Sorry, no chance. When a piranha get his teeth into something, ......... jeje

BrandonBP
  6/7/2016 22:59 EST

Anyone else find it odd that someone who doesn't wish to read about Bogota crime pops in to tell the rest of us to close the thread?

Just don't click on it anymore, mate, and we won't bother you.

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