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news flash medellin

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soystar1
  6/22/2016 17:03 EST

Just read this:

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2016/06/22/killing-3-foreigners-past-2-weeks-causing-alarm-in-colombia-medellin/

livinginmedellin
  6/22/2016 18:27 EST

Almost a week old news.

The Mexican killed in Belén was trying to prevent a motorcycle being stolen.

The Israeli killed in La América reportedly was involved in taking Israelis to an establishment in the area where they would consume drugs and contracted the services of women working in prostitution.

The Dane killed in Provenza near Parque Lleres was apparently waiting for someone. Minutes later, the witness said, another man came to him and spoke to him for a couple of minutes, before pulling out a gun and shooting him. Speculation that this one may also have had something to do with drugs or women.

Bottom line don't try to resist or prevent a robbery and best to stay away from drugs and prostitutes...

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bigjailerman
  6/22/2016 18:50 EST

Wow 225 murders six months into the year...

Suprisiing fact..

guestuser
  6/22/2016 19:28 EST

Talking of news I was kind of interested in the dilemma the government had in confirming the ceasefire with the FARC

a) announce it today when all everyone is focused on is the semi-final tonight
b) announce it tomorrow with the risk that if Colombia win tonight no one will give a rats about anything else other than the upcoming final

BrandonBP
  6/22/2016 21:27 EST

Whew, it's glad to hear that they all deserved getting killed. For a second I was worried that perhaps they were victims. But now I can rest easy knowing that those miscreants were using drugs and talking to whores.

8901
  6/23/2016 01:46 EST

Yeah especially the guy who tried to prevent the motorcycle from getting stolen that f**ker really had it coming.

And the guy who was seeing prostitutes ( which is legal ?) was really just asking for it.

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bigjailerman
  6/23/2016 02:05 EST

Their stupid move was mixing the prostitutes and drugs.. Keep them seperate and you won't be viewed poorly after you are murdered. . I thought we all learned that in gringo 101.. You poor dead guys brought poor light on us.

8901
  6/23/2016 02:50 EST

Let's remember this talk of drug involvement is all nothing but speculation. No arrests have been made with witnesses or perpetrators revailing such. No drugs found on the scene. ????

Drug involvement is a common label some individuals attach to occurrences such as these.

When the reality of just how dangerous everyday life in Colombia can be for an expat smacks them in the face it can be very unsettling for them and they get scared out of their wits by it .

By labeling victims "drug users" it makes them - them- and by default-not me- which is a comforting form of denial and coping mechanism.

If their them - and therefore not me- then I'm safe.

Police departments especially ill equipped and over burdened ones such as Medellin will also jump on this "drug user" bandwagon as it is can quickly clear a case, calm public anxiety, and hide their own ineptness to truly solve a case.

BrandonBP
  6/23/2016 07:32 EST

I'm with 8901 in this one. I have absolutely no trust in the Colombian police. For a bit, I thought they were great. They'll happily give you directions if you're lost, or have smiling photos taken with you.

And as long as there's no trouble in your life, they're happy to assist. But when you actually need anything, it's the typical Colombian way. They don't want to have anything to do with the matter. That would require effort.

I grew up in a family where most of the males were in some sort of law enforcement. And the cops in the USA may very not want to deal with your spat with your girlfriend, or your stolen i-Phone at the Walmart. But they at least have the decency to act like they are concerned and will file reports and review the surveillance videos to see what they can find out. The Colombian police have nothing to offer or even a modicum of concern or professionalism.

If the Colombian police can clear their books by saying the victim was deserving of being killed or robbed, I have no doubts they'll slander the dead guy so they don't have to do any actual police work. Because conducting an investigation would be a hindrance in their pursuits to shake down gringos for La Mordida.

bh2
  6/24/2016 10:12 EST

Criminal acts tend to attract other criminal acts. This isn't a surprise. It's predictable. Everywhere.

BrandonBP
  6/25/2016 03:04 EST

Criminal acts tend to attract other criminal acts. This isn't a surprise. It's predictable. Everywhere.
==================

So, if someone smokes weed or speeds on the interstate or hires a hooker or drinks beer in a public park, we can all rest easy knowing he deserved to get murdered?

I don't smoke dope or hire hookers or do anything that might be construed as criminal, but I know people that smoke weed and sleep with prostitutes. And they're NOT criminals by any means. And very fine gentlemen that I'm glad to know. Does their weed smoking warrant a death sentence?

Apparently, you think so. I'm sure you're Mother Teresa.

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bh2
  6/25/2016 09:23 EST

Climb down. I said criminal acts tend to attract other criminal acts. Because they do. I did not suggest they dispense justice. Because they do not.

BrandonBP
  6/25/2016 10:19 EST

Colombia has a crime problem. Perhaps it's gotten better than 20 years ago, but there's still a problem. And the police don't seem to care.

It's a touchy subject for me personally because I was robbed in Bogota my last trip. I wasn't smoking weed or buying coke or looking for whores. I was hanging out with nice European visitors from my hotel at a nice bar in Chapinero. I was minding my own business and not seeking out anything nefarious. But I was out drinking, and some will say it's my own fault. Actually some Colombians DID say it was my own fault for being a gringo and drinking in a bar in Bogota. They gave me the speech about my papaya. It seems that the attitude is that if you're white in Colombia, then just stay indoors rather than have the temerity to go enjoy anything. Otherwise, it's your own fault.

And they're wrong to blame me for that mess. I didn't deserve it. So, if I seem touchy, I am.

bmcb
  6/25/2016 22:15 EST

Read the semana news story on this murder. http://www.semana.com/nacion/articulo/danes-asesinado-en-medellin-vinculado-a-turismo-sexual/478104

It starts out Americans are picking up young woman and partying therefore this Europe man must've been doing the same. It seems a lot of people are blaming the victim. Even the mayor said every murder is serious then went on to imply the guy deserved it. There is a definite uptic in anti tourist (gringo) sentiment in 2016. Besides this and talking with people, the police have started stop and fisking me on my own block where I own my home in poblado. 2015 was a great year for crime and the police, but 2016, I'm wondering what's going on.... Was this guy an innocent tourist shot in the face on the street during prime time? Or was he a drug trafficker, or pimp involved in high risk business? If regular tourists are getting shot in the face and blamed and no one's looking into it, then this is not good.... the older new Yorker killed last year I was ready to assume he was into something, based on some basic info, but this, I need to know more.

bmcb
  6/25/2016 22:15 EST

Read the semana news story on this murder. http://www.semana.com/nacion/articulo/danes-asesinado-en-medellin-vinculado-a-turismo-sexual/478104

It starts out Americans are picking up young woman and partying therefore this Europe man must've been doing the same. It seems a lot of people are blaming the victim. Even the mayor said every murder is serious then went on to imply the guy deserved it. There is a definite uptic in anti tourist (gringo) sentiment in 2016. Besides this and talking with people, the police have started stop and fisking me on my own block where I own my home in poblado. 2015 was a great year for crime and the police, but 2016, I'm wondering what's going on.... Was this guy an innocent tourist shot in the face on the street during prime time? Or was he a drug trafficker, or pimp involved in high risk business? If regular tourists are getting shot in the face and blamed and no one's looking into it, then this is not good.... the older new Yorker killed last year I was ready to assume he was into something, based on some basic info, but this, I need to know more.

dumluk
  6/26/2016 11:18 EST

Have visited and traveled and even dabbled a bit 5times in Colombia without a problem. One close encounter in Cali, but bluffed my way out of it........But have never lived there.....differnt story......sounds like Medellin has taken a turn for the worse.......Big cities especially in Colombia or Brazilcan be ruff.......Not my cup of tea.......Im country all the way.....cities are just places to visit for a short time or fly in and out of........I know Medellin has its charms and seductions, but I wouldnt livethere if you paid my rent and light bills..............As bad as Panama can be now, it still sounds about 10x better, safer, and easier than Colombia..........so is Ecuador..........just stay out of the e.q. impact zone..........Colombia just has too much violence and treachury in their history. Layer upon layer of it..........all visitors should be warned to be on their best behavior and well guarded when they get off the plane there........Too bad, but true!

bmcb
  6/26/2016 17:23 EST

Through out 2015, I would've said your post is an exaggeration focusing on history not the current state. At the moment I am uncertain and looking for more information... looks like right now, married couple with child safe, single man possible target.... hoping this is aberration and not new normal.

bigjailerman
  6/26/2016 17:40 EST

That post about how bad crime and violence isn't far from fact. There are allot of things that go unreported. Don't be lulled into complacency that it only happens to a single guy, having a couple drinks in a bar and looking for female action, prepayed or not. I love it here but have no allusions either.

BrandonBP
  6/27/2016 02:03 EST

"single man possible target"
============================

When I was at the US embassy getting my temporary passport after getting robbed in Bogota, the case officer said that middle-aged men are the normal targets for robbery and scams in Colombia. The caspas assume that you're well-to-do if you're a mid-age white guy. The DEA agent that was taxi robbed and stabbed to death was about 40.

That's why it annoys me a bit when some lady expats in Colombia (I still love you) think that since they've never had trouble that I must be making the s++t up. Men are the targets. In their Latino sexist minds, women don't have any cash to steal.

Oh, and do you know the word for "target" in Spanish? It's a bit ironic.

8901
  6/27/2016 03:04 EST

bigjailerman

new message
6/26/2016 17:40 EST

That post about how bad crime and violence isn't far from fact. There are allot of things that go unreported. Don't be lulled into complacency that it only happens to a single guy, having a couple drinks in a bar and looking for female action, prepayed or not. I love it here but have no allusions either.
======================================

WORD .......... Bigjailerman is spot on.

I love Colombia and things aren't that bad to prevent me from going but gentleman lets not delude ourselves. There are eyes on us at all times so we must have eyes wide open at all times too.

bmcb
  6/27/2016 03:51 EST

Hi, I'm wondering if you two could elaborate what you think happened here?

I lived in gentrifying ghettos in the us for years before moving to medellin, and while there were murders and gang violence, generally, if you didn't mess with anyone they wouldn't mess with you. You sleep with a guys girlfriend, or borrow drugs and not pay, you may get killed. But if not you're good. Could get robbed if not careful, but not killed. If at any point neighborhood new comers were being killed because of hate, I would've been out of there. But it's mostly friendly people and a handful of dumb kids fighting each other.

in this case... Do you think this guy, slept with someone's girlfriend /wife, was robbed and killed, or killed by a social justice warrior who thinks single male gringos are bad? Two of three of these are applicable to single males solely (sjw is highly dangerous situation), the other robbery you would think would be avoidable. Or do you think some other reason, and if since other reason, how would one avoid it with eyes open?

jonrod888
  6/27/2016 08:49 EST

I won't speculate on why this person got killed (unless you did it you won't know for sure) but in Medellin anyone at any time could got killed ... stopped at a red light, walking down the street, in a crowded park, sitting in a bar, etc. You say you lived in a ghetto in the US but the difference here is that if you live in "barrio populares" trouble is just waiting for you and eyes are always watching. Innocent or gang member you could be killed at any moment. If the barrio doesn't know you, then you are only asking for trouble. Go walk Doce Octubre, Santo Domingo, Castilla, San Javier, Belén Rincon, Bello at 10:00/11:00 at night and tell us about your experience. And there are worse áreas.

bmcb
  6/27/2016 15:13 EST

I would not walk in a comuna of medellin, besides the cable car. But I disagree that the reason is not important. In my own neighborhood of poblado, the muder rate is less than the us ghetto I came from. In the us ghetto it was mostly gang on gang violence though. If the gangs started killing white yuppies, then it's time to go. The murder rate here while less could be more dangerous if I am in the target population. People are normally killed for money, women or hate. Not no reason. Crime characteristics are local. The majority of murders in medellin continue to be in comunas of gangs and right and left wing groups. It is very important to know why each of the 4 recent foreigner killings occurred. No one just kills some one at a stop light at random.

bigjailerman
  6/27/2016 16:03 EST

I have a news flash for you, with respect of course. There is NOT a murder rule book.
The biggest problem is a the total lack of respect of life and zero fear of law enforcement and jail time. The trend of overall crime rate here, including violence is rising. You can almost feel it on some of these streets.
Also be reminded that in the USA, crime statistics are constantly monitored and reported and the vast majority of crime is reported. In Colombia including all cities, towns, and neighborhoods many go unreported due to a lack of police.

bmcb
  6/27/2016 16:27 EST

Probably we'll have to agree to disagree here. I agree with you that more fear of law enforcement would reduce killing for all these reasons (and a fourth I forgot of self preservation), but, I've made a career out of analyzing data and predicting events, so I generally believe no trend is random, and most other things not to be random either. But I understand your view now, so thanks for clarifying.

testolas
  6/27/2016 16:49 EST

My feeling are if there was more jobs for people living in Medellin the crime would be less. Not having any money drives people to make poor decision.

jonrod888
  6/27/2016 16:52 EST

You missed my point ... you're comparing US Ghetto statistics and crime to your "neighborhood" of the upper 2% rich of Medellin living in Poblado. What's the crime rate in Beverly Hills and compare it to Poblado. Nearly every day, there are robberies at stop lights and if things don't go the way of the robber someone will get killed. Random in the sense of being at the wrong place at the wrong time, and worse are the planned/insider robberies. Remember the Gringo husband and wife tortured and killed in Poblado a few years ago for their money in the house safe. Happening more often in Poblado ... and more often with tourists.

bigjailerman
  6/27/2016 16:57 EST

jonrod is on target with his assessment.

bmcb
  6/27/2016 17:18 EST

Well it's from the nicest neighborhood in a more dangerous city vs more violent neighborhood in a safer city. In 2015 my old neighborhood (bedstuy) had a murder rate of 13 per 100,000. Medellin is listed at 26 per 100,000. In poblado 2015 I don't have stats but as far as I see it's 1 per 100,000. Old neighborhood and poblado are about same size, but normalized then anyway. Both numbers have come down significantly. Technically poblado is safer, unless gringos start getting targeted by sjw, or police stop enforcing crime.

bigjailerman
  6/27/2016 17:21 EST

Revisit the topic of unreported crime vs Usa.. Bedsty, huh.... Another Brooklynite..kudos.
Sunset park here

bmcb
  6/27/2016 17:40 EST

oh really was just over in gowanus last week, I try and get to bk every couple months.... for unreported... for a murder to be unreported they would have to at least be missing persons I would think, or suicides, I can add those into the numbers on both sides. It's possible in bedstuy some murders are otherwise classified as well.

jonrod888
  6/27/2016 18:00 EST

Unreported murders in Colombia, you need to read up on the Bronx area in Bogota which was just recently cleaned out by police. Expected hundreds of bodies disposed of in the chop house ... chop house found in Medellin last year with more around.

bmcb
  6/28/2016 00:10 EST

Well, although this is particularly gruesome,... I see one article that says it's anticipated 24 were killed in medellin in this manner in 2015, so this would only move the number approximately from 26 per 100,000 to 27 per 100,000. That was from a justice for Colombia site or something like that. Do you have a number higher per year than this? Didn't look at bogota, but that s a whole different story.

JasonWriter
  6/28/2016 00:57 EST

Awesome info from all corners here. Well, as easy as it would be for me to be nervous about moving to Colombia given reports of violence, I have to say that the very fact that there are a bunch of Americans living in Colombia debating this topic online isn't the worst thing. There is no debate about safety in the Somalia forum, or the Ethiopia forum, or the Haiti forum, because there is no conversation there at all

jonrod888
  6/28/2016 08:55 EST

You again are wrong in that I am not here to debate the "deniers" of violence in Colombia because it is a never ending debate. And Medellin is your utopia and yes you are "moving on up" from your NY Ghetto project to live among the rich because of exchange rate and abundance of poor in this developing country. The article that you are asking for is below and it states that the chop houses in Medellin have risen from 10 to an estimated 15 in the past year and only 24 bodies have been "discovered" in the streets but out of the 15 houses no one knows how many bodies have been disposed of and not placed in the streets. 15 houses and 24 bodies is a low count. Just remember that Colombia is developing and lacks many comforts but if the time comes for you to need the assistance of police even in your rich neighborhood, you may get a response time of 30 min. while other areas get police to respond in 2 hours or more if at all ...but as you say this is utopia and there is no violence.

http://www.justiceforcolombia.org/news/article/1938/chop-houses-exist-in-medellin

jonrod888
  6/28/2016 09:47 EST

Another article on chop up and dispose of parts.

http://colombiareports.com/keep-colombias-homicide-rate-low-dismember-dispose-victims-remains/

jonrod888
  6/28/2016 09:56 EST

And another article.

http://colombiareports.com/medellin-gangs-use-horror-houses-to-torture-and-dismember-victims/

BlueSeas
  6/28/2016 20:13 EST

No disillusion here, many crimes go unreported. But how many murders in Poblado go unreported? Especially of foreigners? I don't think too many, but maybe I'm naive?

I think if you don't do anything stupid, your chances are pretty small of any significant harm. That said, you might lose a wallet or cell phone sometime. It stinks, but just the way it is.

bigjailerman
  6/28/2016 20:27 EST

Well, if the gringo.travels alone, and he/she is killed, who would know... and who reports it? There is no way to count that stat.
Hail a cab on the street, get rolled, you aggravate the gun/knife wielding POS, kills you and dumps you in an unpopulated area and poof, you are are gone. Missing isn't dead by the books. After a few days it is forgotten here.
Maybe I am skeptical.

BlueSeas
  6/28/2016 20:39 EST

You are right to be skeptical. However if the average respectable foreigner from anywhere disappears in Medellin, it's likely to make news and get reported. And not be easily forgotten. But like I said...this may be naive.

Should be some records of this? We all follow the news pretty closely and don't see this kind of thing frequently for foreigners. Most of the reports are Milennial back packers that go off grid for awhile and eventually show up.

I'm not making light...but this stuff happens everywhere. In my neck of the woods, we had 4 shot, 2 fatally in the last 7 days. In an area bigger than Poblado, but way smaller than Medellin, In SW Florida.

bigjailerman
  6/28/2016 20:47 EST

..."However if the average respectable foreigner from anywhere disappears in Medellin, it's likely to make news and get reported...."

Respectable or not (depending on who assigns that tag) dead is dead and adds to the statistics. Medellin is not only Poblado.
A question though .. again, how does the gringo travels alone, "disappears" .. who would know and who reports it.
In any event it is what it is, and will be what it will be.

BlueSeas
  6/28/2016 20:56 EST

A single gringo who travels alone isn't much different than my wife and I staying in our apartment in Poblado and frequenting the malls and restaurants. Someone at home probably cares and would know the person(s) were in Medellin and seek closure.

Now if they are druggies or sex tourists, maybe not.

Yes, the end is the end, no matter where. I'm simply saying sweeping lots of law abiding visitors untimely deaths under the carpet needs more data to support the assertion it's happening frequently.

bigjailerman
  6/28/2016 21:41 EST

...and thus, due to its very nature, there is no data for that, hence the conundrum..

BrandonBP
  6/28/2016 23:04 EST

I travel alone, and I truly believe it to be significantly more dangerous to be a lone gringo in Colombia.

After dealing with the US embassy in Bogota, I have no doubts that no one would care if something happened to me in Colombia. We already know the Colombian police don't care, but you sort of think that your own embassy with hundreds of officials, many of them law enforcement attaches, would at least wish to get involved to help out their own. But they don't.

And we all know that if a single guy is visiting Filandia, Villa de Leyva, Salento, and hiking and seeing the mountains, then he surely must be a sex/drug tourist, so he asked for his demise. No one is going to care. And if I'm dead, I don't care either. It's just when you're alive and you need help - it'd be nice to have it.

HelloFromAndrew
  6/29/2016 00:05 EST

theres been quite a few threads on crime, 2 or 3 people stand out in all those threads , brandon and jonrod espessialy. Id like to ask if you are so afraid in columbia, why the heck are you here? if you are so afraid of your own shadow, then it cant be much fun being here in this country if your sh...ting your pants all the time. please tell us. yes weve all had bad experiences, and been robbed too. But for heavens sake, man up, and get over it. But why are you still here if its so bad?

jonrod888
  6/29/2016 07:42 EST

Hi Andrew. Never said that I was afraid but only relating my experiences and posting "actual" news stories (not opinion) ... not here to defend but to show the real world. Why do all the "this is a beautiful country with loving people" foreign dreamers become so enamored with Colombia? When they don't like what they hear, it's always ... why are you here, get out. We all have our reasons for doing what we do and have the right to do so. You say that I should have no voice and leave ... do you take the same position with foreigners in US? Colombia is Colombia and the trend now is hatred ... yes hatred ... for foreign males who are seen as sex predators and drug addicts. Visitors were first viewed with curiosity and respect but now with experience Colombians don't like what they see and read about in the news ... tourists dead in the streets of Poblado ... shot, heart attack after sex with 2 young girls in his room, dead in his room from drug overdose. And it's happening more frequently.

jonrod888
  6/29/2016 08:00 EST

The Colombian govt. is finally taking some action against sex tourists in Poblado. Hope this is just the beginning.

http://www.minuto30.com/video-9-establecimientos-del-parque-lleras-han-sido-cerrados-en-operativos-contra-la-explotacion-sexual-infantil/490982/

BrandonBP
  6/29/2016 23:37 EST

Andrew,

Thanks for your thought post.

Have you ever had a girlfriend that was very beautiful and wonderful and made you very happy, yet she had a lot of personal problems and issues that made you lose sleep at night?

Colombia is like that girlfriend.

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