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Some coming, others going (part 2)

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meincolombia
  9/12/2016 12:07 EST

I got tired of scrolling through pages of messages to get to the new posts on the old thread so I´m starting a new, similar one.

I agree wholeheartedly that Medellin is better than Panama, and better even than Costa Rica, but to say that Medellin is OMG YOU GOTTA GO THERE is a big stretch of imagination. It is a typical Latin American city, with congestion, crime, contamination and pollution, polluted air and rivers, grimy streets and homes, shoddy construction and so forth.
However, there are friendly people, and the cost of living is less, maybe even 1/2 less, than a similar size city in the US. The climate is excellent. Decent health care is available and health insurance is not terribly expensive as it is in the US.

Yes, there are many reasons to live in Medellin or any part of Colombia.

Still, some of us are happy to be returning to US.
Both countries have petty everyday annoyances but they seem to be magnified in Colombia. The pollution is really starting to annoy me. Trash everywhere, rivers stink, breathing the air hurts my throat, dog sh!t all over the place, people parking their car over the street grate to change their oil.......just some of the things that have grown more and more unpalatable for me.
People rave about the beauty of Colombia, but when you look more closely its an illusion. The place is filthy, gritty, smelly, polluted, over promoted.

Beautiful for me is a sugar sand beach along the coast of Florida, or the state and federal parks and forests in New England, or clean rivers where you can swim and kayak without fear of hepatitis. Where you can hike for days along wilderness trails without fear of guerrillas or paramilitaries or narco gangs or just plain ordinary robbers.
In my opinion there are lots of good reasons to live in the US even with the extreme climate changes and extreme cost of living.

livinginmedellin
  9/12/2016 13:14 EST

A plant that is key in the effort to decontaminate the river in Medellín opens next year.

The plant is reportedly 76% complete. With the new plant 95% of wastewater in the Aburrá valley will be treated next year.

See: http://www.eltiempo.com/colombia/medellin/planta-que-limpiara-el-rio-medellin-operaria-en-el-2017/16685604

Hopefully as a result we'll see a fix to a downside with a major improvement in the Medellín river next year.

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jonrod888
  9/12/2016 13:32 EST

This could be a start for a new business venture ... trout fishing in Downtown Medellin. Fits right in with the tourist boom/theme. Maybe a catch and eat restaurant right on the banks of the beautiful Río Medellin.

jonrod888
  9/12/2016 13:49 EST

Seriously, I don't know how a couple of plants will clean the river. There are at least a hundred drainage sewer pipes that empty into the river between Itague and Bello and numerous streams that are so polluted that there are unknown bacteria living in them. I saw a guy taking a dump into the stream under the Metro near the Stadium the other day. The plants may help down stream but I doubt they will help much in Central Medellin. Stop the people polluting the river then it may have an effect. Trout will get one smell of the river and die.

mtbe
  9/12/2016 13:58 EST

In Pereira, the main water source is a river ...forget the name. But upstream of Pereira there is a corredor along the river that limits the type of construction around the river that is suppose to reduce/prevent run off/pollution and reduce water usage as well. However, these are also the prettiest areas.

We found out that the rules don't apply if you have money. The rich are buying up the property, and even though the 'law' states you can't put a home on the property, they are doing it anyway by paying off someone to change the rules....

imorcombe
  9/13/2016 21:50 EST

I am from Bogota but have lived in the States for 35 years and just came back from Bogota and Pereira and I just couldn't agree with you more. Everything you said is right on the mark. Thank you!

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Panabud
  9/14/2016 00:32 EST

The OMG response typically come from expats who have given up on their home country and are fed up with Panama and are desperately looking for another option. So along comes Medellin and bingo... OMG let's move there. Everything is relative. I can understand Canadians giving up on Canada due to the cold winters. But the U.S. has some mild and tropical states. The OP gets it and has the most realistic viewpoint.

A lot of you on here don't differentiate traveling with being an expat. I'm all for traveling and exploring exotic places outside of one's comfort zone. That's the whole point of traveling. But to give up on your home country for another one that has inferior [fill in the blank] just does not make logical sense. But to each his own. If you want to do that then go for it. Be happy. But please don't have a chip on your shoulder against people who say WTF this place sucks I'm out of here.

8901
  9/14/2016 03:15 EST

IMHO the OP has articulated very closely my own sentiments.

All we here on this board, are an exclusive set of individuals whom are not afraid to step out of our comfort zones and many of us whom are middle age or more are in an even more exclusive subset whom have not capitulated on our dreams with age and just conformed to what is the established norm.

We did not settle to buy a house in Florida and stay put venturing out only as far as to the supermarket once a week and passing each day sitting in front of the garage waiting for deaths advance.

For me there is a special beauty in South America I enjoy immersing myself in the culture, exploring -- keeps me young,

That said I am a thinking, intelligent, and honorable individual and after a time of immersing myself in a society where lying is the norm, ones word means absolutely nothing and life is cheap I do not feel at home there.

The problem is that as the dumbing down of America continues with these same individuals being imported along with these revolting traits. these behaviors stand out even more to me when I witness them on home soil and I detest it even deeper when I witness it here.

It is harder and harder to insulate oneself and exist in a society that functioned as the U.S. did 50 years ago. In the last 50 years the U.S. gone steadily backwards instead of forwards in many regards and is morphing slowly into a culture that I also feel less and less a part of as well.

Panabud
  9/14/2016 08:15 EST

Florida has tons of parks and recreation and amenities to keep one entertained for a while. If you get a little bored take a road trip or hop on a cheap domestic flight to anywhere. It's ironic how the same people who criticize others for not embracing other cultures are the same who won't embrace their own. Not everyone is dumbed down in America. There are plenty of smart people there who get it. And those who don't still are good workers and get things done. So America is still a great place to live.

SkyMan
  9/14/2016 09:18 EST

Panabud, I agree with your post. There are many factors that determine if one is a "happy expat" or not. The ability to accept the differences of living in a Latin country vs. all the conveniences that the U.S. offers. to be able to adapt to
a new life as an expat involves many, small changes to one's lifestyle. favorite foods, etc. etc. ?Good Weather is my thing, After living in SW Florida for 17 years, I
just do not want to be in 19 degrees in January anymore. That's why I'm moving to Medellin.
Having lived in Cuenca, Ec. for
1 1/2 years(too cold/rainy) here.
I do speak espanol fluently, so there is no language barrier for me.
Each person has certain "requirements" for their lifestyle, and finding that "sweet" spot is the key. For some it's Panama, Costa Rica, Belize, Mexico, or wherever. It just has to feel "right" on a daily basis...not just at a festival. That "good fit" may be out there, or maybe not...if not=they return to the U.S. These are just my thoughts, as an expat.

guestuser
  9/14/2016 09:27 EST

You learn something everyday on this forum. If you choose to live outside of your native country 'you won't embrace' that culture? So many, many years ago - when I was working for an American company in London and they asked me to move to the NY to take up a position there effectively I was rejecting my native British culture? Strange - I thought it was just a great job opportunity.

Panabud you seem to think that in choosing to live in Colombia people are rejecting the US, or don't see it as a good country. My experience is that ex-pats are often the most patriotic people you'll come across. If nothing else spending time on this forum and seeing the long running discussions about where to get Chicago deep dish pizza in Colombia should encourage you to think that perhaps all the ex-pats down here don't spend their Friday evenings burning the Stars and Stripes.

Funnily enough I think we're on the brink of getting a lot more ex-pats. The upcoming US election, whichever way it turns out is going to be unpopular with a lot of people. Democrats if they lose won't want to stay in a country that they think is going to morph into a rerun of Germany in the 1930s. Republicans if they lose won't want to stay in a country that they'll see as on fast track to some sort of Marxist regime. I'll guess that there are going be a fair few retired people who'll figure that somewhere warm and cheap might not be a bad place to see out their days. Even on this forum recently there have been several 'newbies' asking about good places to live. Perhaps they're just the front runners in the new invasion.

Some will look at Costa Rica, Panama, maybe Argentina and of course Colombia.

Now perhaps those 'new' Gringos might be rejecting the culture, or at least what they believe the future political culture may be.

Somewhere out there in the future after the election I anticipate news stories about the number of Americans choosing to retire abroad increasing.

The downside of this is of course is what the politics of the new neighbors are going to be. For example if you want Hilary to win then if she does then the outflow is likely to be Republicans and the converse if Trump wins. Like most things in life, the perfect solution rarely exists.

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Andresen
  9/14/2016 10:42 EST

People have different reasons to leave the US and come to Colombia. In my case I left the US for purely economic reasons. I chose Medellin because of its low cost of living, beautiful weather and beautiful women. It doesn't hurt that Colombianas appear intrigued by American men.

Bobfrozen1
  9/14/2016 10:56 EST

Andersen;

Exacto!!

livinginmedellin
  9/14/2016 15:04 EST

@Andersen said “People have different reasons to leave the US and come to Colombia. In my case I left the US for purely economic reasons. I chose Medellin because of its low cost of living, beautiful weather and beautiful women. It doesn't hurt that Colombianas appear intrigued by American men.”

Good post. I agree with those being the main reasons I chose Medellín.

But I’ll also add good and cheap medical care, proximity to the U.S. and same time zone as U.S. (important if you have a U.S.-based job) plus cheap and reliable Internet.

SkyMan
  9/14/2016 15:56 EST

Paradise, great post ! Election years in the U.S. are normally flat(biz wise) & a time for people on the brink...to dip that toe in the water of an expat.The key factor of an election year is the uncertainty...of what might be ? or What if ? Adaptation to life in a new country is the key to being happy here...your favorite foods, spices, beer, wine, TV, etc. It is NOT the U.S. so understand that going in. My belief is that you need to spend a month in a few countries, to see what everyday life is. When you spend a week somewhere=you're a tourist. If you want to know about Cuenca, Ec p.m. me and we'll talk
as I've lived here for 1 1/2 yrs. and am now moving to Medellin. Very different cities & I prefer Medellin
greatly, especially el clima.

guestuser
  9/14/2016 16:07 EST

@skyman

It's great to see a positive vote for Medellin. They have been few and far between recently. We did kick around the idea of Cuenca perhaps to buy a holiday place, but at the moment it's not top of the thought queue. Thanks for the offer though.

If I can be of any help in your MDE adventure let me know.

cafetero
  9/15/2016 09:40 EST

@Andersen said “People have different reasons to leave the US and come to Colombia. In my case I left the US for purely economic reasons. I chose Medellin because of its low cost of living, beautiful weather and beautiful women. It doesn't hurt that Colombianas appear intrigued by American men.”

@livinginmedellin said ¨Good post. I agree with those being the main reasons I chose Medellín.

But I’ll also add good and cheap medical care, proximity to the U.S. and same time zone as U.S. (important if you have a U.S.-based job) plus cheap and reliable Internet.¨

I agree, cost of living, excellent climate, easy going lifestyle, beautiful and friendly women, inexpensive health care.....all are excellent reasons to live in Colombia.
However, I do agree with the OP that Colombia is polluted and not likely to every improve given the attitude of the government and of the people. I live on the outskirts of a city and have watched when new homes get built outside town that they use septic systems that are guaranteed to fail and will overflow to the nearest creek.
Entire watersheds are polluted with septic systems and water treatment plants that are woefully inadequate.

The comment about dog crap everywhere really is true....no leash laws, no concern for other people, first thing in the morning doors open and they turn the dog out for its morning crap.
This is a small symptom of a huge problem with under education and lack of government leadership.

That´s just the way it is here, so I ignore it as best I can, but I do sometimes yearn for one of those sugar sand beaches or a wilderness trail or clean river where you can relax and enjoy and don´t have to have an armed guard to feel safe.

Panabud
  9/15/2016 10:37 EST

Britain and U.S. are not far apart culturally, both first world, same language, easy lateral shift. Expats are patriotic? An oxymoron. So you run away until things get fixed or the dust settles. Patriots stay and duke it out. No one is knocking your decision to expatriate. If it works for you then great. But the minute you suggest anyone who loves and stays in the US is somehow faulty because they chose not to adapt to a different culture then expect a rebuttal. I've done a decade in third world and will say categorically that first world is a more pleasant and enjoyable experience, hence my return home.

meincolombia
  9/15/2016 11:09 EST

@Panabud said ¨I've done a decade in third world and will say categorically that first world is a more pleasant and enjoyable experience, hence my return home.¨

Amen brother, de acuerdo mucho :)

jonrod888
  9/15/2016 12:01 EST

Colombia GDP is a little less than Florida. Colombia's govt. revenue is about the same as Florida but has to pay a large amount for military. But Colombia has more than 2x the population and 6x the land mass of Florida. So don't expect much from the Colombia govt. ... Barranquilla floods every rain season and numerous house along hillsides throughout the country are washed away from rain every year ... disaster relief virtually none, social programs are limited, infrastructure definitely needs more, So yes this is a developing country while Floridians enjoy more state spending per person in addition to many Federal Govt. Programs, support and dollars.. Cheaper living here but in times when help is needed, you are on your own.

Bobfrozen1
  9/15/2016 12:25 EST

Expats are patriotic? An oxymoron. So you run away until things get fixed or the dust settles. Patriots stay and duke it out.
=========================================

Panabud,

I really had to read your post a few times before I could understand what you were trying to say and still may have gotten it wrong.

Expats are not patriotic?? I hope I took your statement out of context.

On my part I served my country for over 30 years and am a disabled US veteran who chooses to live in Colombia. War, humanitarian relief both in the US and other countries. I have proudly sacrificed much in my life for my country and others.

I take your statement as an insult that I run away until the dust settles and then return.

There are many veterans like me who have served their country and decided to live elsewhere. I saw them in Germany, United Kingdom, Dominican Republic, and Colombia just to name a few.

For me I love Colombia and Medellin. The climate, cost of living, friendly people, beautiful women and the list goes on and on. I love living here, one of the best places I have lived in and the list is long.

With that said I am proud of my country and proud to be a citizen of the greatest country in the world. I am a patriot and I vote.

I respect everyones right to an opinion but take exception to those who insult others.

I sincerely hope I took your statement out of context.

BlueSeas
  9/15/2016 13:13 EST

Jonrod, did you consider some of us feel the government does too much?

jonrod888
  9/15/2016 13:39 EST

I assume you're talking about the US ... but this is only a comparison for those who took for granted the good roads, schools, disaster relief, help for elderly, etc., etc. and find there is very little in Colombia including basic police protection. US is way too Big Brother for me and way too easy with spending the people's tax money. Sure, less govt. is better.

Kee
  9/15/2016 15:28 EST

I've just been "balanced billed" for x-rays my wife had in the USA five months ago. Luckily "only" a few hundred bucks, but a nice reminder of one of the main reasons I moved to Colombia.

Yesterday I paid 27,000 Col pesos for a series of blood tests and I will NOT be receiving another bill. I received the results the same day.

Epicatt2
  9/15/2016 16:28 EST

Kee,

I enjoyed the post about your medical experiences comparing the US & Colombia. Good for you.

That's the sort of thing I experienced in Costa Rica that fairly quickly soured me against the Medical systems in the US where it now seems to take forever plus three appointments, set for god-knows-when down the road, just to be seen by my doctor.

I was most impresssed with the fact that I could walk into a clininc in Costa Rica and often not even have to wait, but instead pay for the test, have the test done and go back to my apartment and get a call two or three hours later letting me know that the results were ready.

Then I could opt for them to A ] -fax me the results; B ] -email me the results as an attachment or; C ] -go back and pick them up myself at the clinic.. Thanks to HIPAA in the US there's very seldom any way to have results emailed to you. (Hopefully this will change soon with everything 'going digital' more and more.)

I had my blood INR done at that clinic for the equivalent of US$11.00. I also had them do 3 Ovum & Parasite (O&Ps) at US$4.00 ea. plus a stool culture for US$12.00. These latter two tests are a wise precaution on a twice per year basis when living in the tropics since you never know what you might pick up as a matter of course.

So there are some useful things about liivng abroad in, say, Colombia or Costa Rica. Many usual tests at local clinincs are quite reasonable. The above tests in Florida –and even with my insurance, mind you– for the co-pays alone, would have cost me at leat three to four time as much as they did in Costa Rica, plus in Costa Rica I had the results almost immediately.

Cheers!

Paul
==
Que no demos pábulo a los duendes.
==

Exbury
  9/15/2016 17:26 EST

At the end of it, its a lot about personal choice and location even in Colombia. I tried Bogota, probably had too high expectations, tried to get a professional job in Bogota, over 60 applications in last 5 months (I was there 2.25 years), inverviews with agencies, family contacts.......nada. Eventually took the decision to try again in the UK. Lined up 5 interviews in 2 weeks back in the UK, told my family I would see what it was like, got a job offer 14 hours after arriving and a second within a week and far happier to be back in the UK. 5 months later wife is moving back, she is going to miss Bogota as she is from there and flies the 'flag' daily....but even she admits working there was not fun, the traffic, pollution was all getting her down.

On the way back on the plane Avianca changed our pre-booked tickets to another row without the baby cot, she politely asked the people seated if they would mind helping us out as we have two boys under 4 and swapping back the seats. The brit said sure, the colombians told her to jump......

Suffice to say its going to be a headache in winter (and the UK sure is not perfect) but I am far happier to be back near London than Bogota (even London traffic seems so easy now). I miss the daily fruit juices, family finca and not having to iron but thats it sadly......I would like to say I miss more but I don't.....maybe it was just Bogota for me.

On the other hand I have friends who have moved to Colombia and are loving it and others who are not sure, and others who have returned to Europe.

Personally, and while I dont regret the experience which has been valuable in many ways, I have learned that each stage of life is different, we all have different wants and needs and each part in Colombia suits some people but not others (and often you only find it out when you actually live there for a while) and may only suit you at some points in your life (I can see the benefits of being retired in Colombia)........but am far from there yet.

BrandonBP
  9/15/2016 18:12 EST

Panabud: "Expats are patriotic? An oxymoron. So you run away until things get fixed or the dust settles. Patriots stay and duke it out."

==========================

Duke it out? With whom? The U.S. government? I was a infantry Marine, so I might be able to singlehandedly take down some small African republic. :) But the USA has too many agents and too much power for me to do anything besides stand in front of city hall with a picket sign to protest. And then I'd likely get a fine for not having a permit to protest.

The USA was built by people fleeing oppression. They boarded rickety wooden boats without the ability to know about hurricanes or storms and sailed for months in squalid conditions to come to a scary foreign land to build a log cabin and hope to survive the winter.

I don't think those people were p*ssies, I think they were the bravest. Same goes for expats in Colombia. You say goodbye to your comfy townhouse in Florida to come to a place with fewer amenities and strange laws and customs compared to what you're used to? That's not cowardice. It's adventurous.

But I can see your point of view. As a young man, I used to say the same about illegal aliens in the US. Why not fix your own country instead of fleeing? But a Mexican farmer has no more chance of fighting his government or the cartels than I do of changing anything in the US.

Our last hope was Ron Paul, and we blew it. Because an honest man that has never flip flopped on any topic in his life is somehow considered a kook.

I have hopes that Hillary's health makes her drop out, and Gary Johnson gets into the debates with Trump. Then people will realize there's another option. But Gary still ain't Ron Paul.

Panabud
  9/16/2016 10:15 EST

Duke it out as in make a good life in your home country regardless of the situation. There is no reason to flee to another country that is far more corrupt and broken. I meet so many gringos who fled to Panama because they did not want to pay taxes, believed the infrastructure was falling apart there and it was a police state. Let me tell you all the truth that in the third world you also pay taxes but have nothing to show for it and infrastructure is a complete POS to begin with and it is a police state here where cops setup check points everywhere and detain you without probable cause mainly looking for a bribe. Third world is a complete disaster and makes the U.S. seem like utopia even in its current state. That is the honest truth that most expats refuse to believe. Denial and rationalizing are a powerful drug. Say what you want and do what you want, it matters not to me. I am in first world now and all across the board it is superior. Absolutely love it here. Would never live in third world again. Visit yes, relocate to, no.

Bobfrozen1
  9/16/2016 11:41 EST

Panabud,

I am very happy that you are much more comfortable now that you have left Colombia. To each his own.

I did some research on "third world" and found a short article I thought you may be interested in.

=========================================

'Third world country' is a rather poorly defined term. The origin of the term is Cold War era, when 'third world' meant not aligned directly with the Soviet Union of the US. Over time it came also to mean countries that were politically and economically less 'advanced' than Europe and the US.

In finance the term used more often for countries that are less wealthy, less industrialized, and have less complex systems to manage capital is 'emerging markets,' which suggests they will some day be more like the US and Switzerland than like themselves. This includes vastly different places, so Cambodia would be considered an emerging market just as would Paraguay. That term, then, glosses over a great deal of regional and cultural difference in one phrase.

Colombia is not a great fit for any of these terms. During the Cold War and until today Colombia has always been a more pro-US country than many of its neighbors. It has never seen a major socialist/communist revolution, and has a military that has been less directly involved in politics than in many of its neighbors. Economically, there are parts of Colombia that feel every bit as wealthy and cosmopolitan as any city in Spain or Portugal, and other parts that are hard to distinguish from how they operated before the conquistadores arrived.

So, to put it all together, I would say Colombia has an emerging economy and is located in Latin America. Inside Latin America Colombia shares a great deal of culture and language with Andean South America, and inside of the country there is a somewhat astonishing degree of diversity in economy, culture, and geography depending on the region where you happen to be. I'll leave whether that makes it a 'third would country' to you.

So the author makes a good point, its really about where you live in Colombia. Where I live the quality of life I have is comparable to and exceeds many places I have lived in the US and at about a third of what it would cost me there.

Again very happy for you now that you are back in the US.

germuno
  9/16/2016 12:28 EST

I find a lot of u.s. expats who are strongly patriotic & think it's the greatest country in the world. When asked why they don't live in the states anymore they reply that they can't afford it.

Andresen
  9/16/2016 12:35 EST

Germuno. That's why I'm no longer in the US.

cafetero
  9/16/2016 13:25 EST

@Germuno said, ¨From: Costa Rica
9/16/2016 12:28 EST

I find a lot of u.s. expats who are strongly patriotic & think it's the greatest country in the world. When asked why they don't live in the states anymore they reply that they can't afford it.¨

Bingo, that....and the women:)

My girlfriend and I live a comfortable middle class lifestyle for about $1000 month living on the outskirts of a small city in Colombia. I am able to sock away a good bit of money for vacations and trips and rainy day fund.

In US I would need $1000 just to pay health insurance for the two of us, never mind the other costs of living such as food, transportation, housing and clothing.

How is it possible for a couple to live a middle class lifestyle in the US anymore unless you have a $50,000 annual income, something most retirees don´t have?

Panabud
  9/16/2016 14:03 EST

Bob, I never set foot in Colombia but may visit one day. I'm referring to Panama your next door neighbor. Third world is an attitude more than anything. There's a ton of money in Panama due to money laundering and that translates into mega construction. But with all that money there is no concern about improving publuc schools and basic infrastructure. Consider Coronado a rich beach town and the roads are atrocious and water outages for days are common. The residents just let it go and don't care. Expats are pissed but deal with it. Been like that for a decade.

LaPiranha
  9/16/2016 14:13 EST

For me its not about money, or third world v first world, nor is it about the horrible bad things here, or the good things.

For me its all about the people, the culture, climate, and the values that people hold, which we in first world lost many years ago. Things like the importance of family, religion, and morals. compared with the decadence and decay in the moral fabric of society back home.

Of course, if you don't or can't embrace the culture here, you'll never know what I am talking about. You'll miss so much that you'll go back home not knowing the most important aspects of the country and its people, You'll never understand why some people love Colombia and want to stay for ever.

There is so much that we can learn from the Colombian people, but not many want to even get to know them properly. They prefer to stay in their American enclaves in El Poblado, not venturing into the Colombian way of life, and isolating themselves from the community, and what Colombia is all about.

I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but it becomes apparent from discussions on forums like this, that there are many who come here for the wrong reasons, or with the wrong attitudes.

If you move to a new country, don't try to bring America with you, don't try to change them to an American way of life, or you will lose the very things that attracted you here in the first place. You'll end up with neither an American life, nor a Colombian life, and many will go back home disappointed.

I think some of the most successful transitions are when you marry a Colombian, and you then integrate with your Colombian family, and immerse yourself in their culture. That's when you learn what Colombia and the people is all about.

Just my opinions of course, and not everyone will agree. We are all different, and we all look for different things in our lives.

But I'm very happy here, as are many others. You don't always hear from the contented ones, and many don't even use these forums. But they do exist.

timllowe
  9/16/2016 14:24 EST

@Piranha - I wouldn't say we are exactly on the same page but we are sure in the same chapter. I can't understand people in gated communities. I think it's insulting to the country and the people I have come to admire and love.

Panabud
  9/16/2016 14:28 EST

Morals and ethics in Latin America? Importance of family yes, but American culture embraces independence so it's a different way of life. You propose an interesting double standard. Immigrants flock to the U.S. and retain their culture and language yet we Americans can't do the same when we expatriate. Glad you are happy in Colombia and identify with their culture.

Panabud
  9/16/2016 14:31 EST

Gated communities are for safety. It's not a gringo thing because locals need a safe place to live too.

timllowe
  9/16/2016 14:44 EST

@Panabud. Then I have to ask, WHY do you live there? I live in a town where I am "el gringo." The only one. The people are warm and friendly. I walk the streets day and night without a thought about my safety. They know me in the grocery stores. The bartenders know my drink. Random people stop me on the street to ask me about Trump. OK. It's not all good...

canpandave
  9/16/2016 14:59 EST

Can't compare Panama and Colombia, the worst thing Panama ever did was separate from Colombia, while each may have some of the spanish tendency for corruption, it is on a whole different scale in Panama, whole communities have no water, schools are falling down, no medicine, no new doctors so the existing ones can keep everything in check and their wallets full. Through all of these crisis the Government of Panama has had lots of money to host an elegant banquet to celebrate the opening of the new canal expansion, the head of the supreme court and the president fly off to exotic places nearly every week while the population waits to hear what the next excuse is why they have no water, no garbage pick up, no teachers, no doctors, no repairs to infrastructure. I maintain a home there because it suits my particular needs but Colombia is everything that Panama is not.

Panabud
  9/16/2016 15:03 EST

Tim, I'm there for business.

timllowe
  9/16/2016 15:10 EST

I don't see your reason for being here any indication of where you choose to live. Unless you are west of the western range or east of the eastern range, there's got to be a normal community within a commute from where ever you do business.

This attitude that Colombia is a dangerous and violent place necessitating gated living really bothers me. I'm from Chicago. There are neighborhoods where no gate would be high enough for me. But there's only one reason to live in those neighborhoods and that is the lack of any other options.

dogo
  9/16/2016 15:15 EST

I retired early and wanted to get out of the Stateside Grind. I'm also a disabled veteran and didn't want to abandon my free health care benefits either. During my working career I had multiple assignments in Puerto Rico. It's a laid back Latin culture on a beautiful tropical island. Not being fluent in Spanish isn't really a problem, most islanders are bilingual to a large degree. There's very little "gringo bias" because we're all citizens of the US. Respect the culture and you'll do just fine. Personal safety is much higher than in SA and most large cities in the US. Access to the States is easy. Fly to Miami in 2 hrs., Houston or NYC in 4.

Puerto Rico is different, but not foreign and we have the absolute best weather, hands down. Flip-flops, shorts and a tee is standard attire. Winters don't exist down here. Definitely worth a peak.

Bobfrozen1
  9/16/2016 16:56 EST

Panabud,

My friend,

You really should visit Colombia especially Medellin. It is a world apart from Panama (lived there before).

I think it would change your mind about "third world".

If you came with an open mind I would even wager you may end up staying here.

Visit the Rosarios, Bogota, Eje Cafetero, Boyaca. Colombia has so much.

Oh yes in Medellin and Bogota you can drink the water out of the faucet.

I wouldn't do that in Flint Michigan.

And watch out for the beautiful ladies!!!

cafetero
  9/16/2016 17:35 EST

I live in gated community for one reason, sleep.
I´ve lived in tiny pueblos full of roosters and dogs and dog sh!t all over the sidewalks and unmuffled motos, and in cities with buses and trucks and unmuffled motos, and in larger pueblos with roosters and dogs and dog sh!t and buses and unmuffled motos.

I prefer to live in the gated community because there are no roosters, and the dogs have to be on leash and picked up after and the buses are three blocks away, and my neighbors have enough money to put mufflers on their motos.

germuno
  9/16/2016 17:36 EST

No doubt you're correct with the first world is easier & better to live in due to many things...if you can afford it. So it isn't the best for everyone. I picked up a couple of viruses more than a year ago & I much rather recoup here in San Diego on a university campus with medicare & all the goodies to make my sick time comfortable. But I'll be gone asap...because...
I liked living in Colombia & many other developing countries as it fits in with one of my hobbies: a very unscientific study of expat americans living on limited budgets...usually a disability or social security check.

LaPiranha
  9/16/2016 21:11 EST

Tim, yep, we are actually in agreement more often than you might realise. There are a few times I don't post because you've already said the exact same thing that I would write. But we are bound to disagree on some things, and if we can agree to disagree, that's good, and I respect your sincerity.

Although I also agree with your view on gated communities, I think there is sometimes a good reason to be in one, if your area isn't too safe, then its probably a good idea. Some folk are maybe not as confident as you and I, and maybe quite nervous of the crime stories. My own reason to be in a conjunto is because its the only place I could find close to where I wanted to be, with a pool. (my passion). But what I do think is wrong, is for some folk to shut themselves inside, only integrate with their fellow expats, and make no attempt to integrate with the locals. I even know some who rarely ever come out of their conjunto. That to me, would be like living in a prison. Not only is it, as you say, rude to our hosts, but they actually miss out on Colombia. They might as well be in the US, Europe, or the far east, and they would never see the difference, as they all look the same from the inside. I think integration is the key to being successful or unsuccessful in expatriating.

Your next post is exactly as I would have written it too. Walking the streets day or night, knowing everyone, and them knowing you. the friendships are so wonderful, the respect both ways, and they are genuine in their warm welcome. Their saying "My house is your house", ..... they actually mean it.

Panabud, you question morals and ethics in Latin America. Yes of course, some societies have poor ones, some have high ones, but again you have to live here and integrate to know the morals and ethics in the country where you live. As you say, you have never set foot in Colombia. Maybe it would be a good idea to visit, and you might see how those qualities do stand out from many other Latin American countries, and even our own values back home. I certainly don't propose that double standard, for we have the same problem in England. Many immigrants come, and live in closed communities, and many live there their whole lives and never ever learn English, speaking only Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, Arabic, etc. No I don't condone this, for the same reasons as I describe above. It works both ways.

I wish I had time to write more, but I have to go. Whatever you choose, and wherever you live, the most important consideration is that you have to be happy. Otherwise, what's the point?

BrandonBP
  9/16/2016 22:05 EST

Panabud, I think it's unfair for you to come into this forum and lecture about Colombia when you've never set foot in Colombia.

I've been to Panama twice, and I would never compare Panama to Colombia. They're not the same. They don't even speak the same dialect. What is that crazy accent the Panamanians have? Don't they call it Chumbo or something similar?

I had a GREAT time in Panama, but I didn't see it as a place I ever wanted to live. The climate isn't the same, The people aren't the same. The culture isn't the same.

Aussies speak English, but I've never been there. And it would be ridiculous of me to tell people in a forum my beliefs about living in Australia. I've met a ton of them and hung out with them, so I'll comment on the Ozzies themselves and how I feel about them (I like them). But I won't offer advice on living there.

cafetero
  9/16/2016 22:56 EST

The economic advantages of living in Colombia should not be ignored. I got a haircut today and it cost $5 and took about 20 minutes. I recall the last haircut I got in US several years ago cost $20 and took 5 minutes. Just one example, there are hundreds more.

LaPiranha
  9/16/2016 23:06 EST

Cafetero, ...... you were robbed. $5 ???? That's 15,000 COP. I have tried many different peluquerias in my barrio, just to see which ones I like, and its always 7 or 8,000 COP maximum. Never ever got charged more than that. :)

Jarmstrong
  9/17/2016 05:08 EST

Lapiranha, so happy to read what you had to say about the Colombian people. I was there a few years ago -Cali - and loved the people and the music and the lovely manners, I am distressed by the many who just seem to want
America everywhere and miss the bigger
Point the only bad experience I had was being
Driven around in circles by the New York cabbie running up the bill on the way in from JFK

Exbury
  9/17/2016 06:52 EST

Always paid $11,000 in Cedritos for a basic haircut, which include wash and cream. My wife would end up paying around $300,000 for a professional haircut/colour........same as the UK. However I would disagree that Colombia (well Bogota lv4+) is cheaper......compared to the UK at any rate (cannot compare US). Before the Children (2 boys) entered school, assuming both working and earning a salary of $15million each (which was far from reality) we would have been slightly better off financially in Colombia compared to the UK. With the Children in school, making salary assumptions with both working in the UK and having an au pair, and cost of living, mortgage equivalent, food, activities etc. the UK will be around £900 better off a month, or around $3.5million. I ran the calculations against variable exchange rates, taxes, but the reality was, financially we were worse off in Bogota. Admittedly some stuff is cheaper, but taking mortgages for example, the base cost of the house is cheaper, but the interest rate offsets this. In both countries you end up paying back around double the original cost.

Of course, other items can fluctuate, its very dependent on circumstances, e.g. I based my UK salary estimates, then found a job paying 20% more. When Brexit occured the peso rose against the £, wiping out that gain. Still works out better. However our friends who were teachers from Germany were financially better off in Colombia than Germany (even with children) because their wage equivalent in Germany was less than in a private school in Bogota.

I bought a Mazda 5 here, cost in Colombia around $35million, cost in UK $7million equivalent. One example of a cost comparison, to get the car oil changed in Colombia however is around $100k, here its the equivalent of $350k, but I do it myself in an hour for the cost of materials at $100k.

I will agree that there is a lot of things cheaper in Colombia than the UK (especially outside of Bogota and mainly service related), but I disagree it can be cheaper overall, although I cannot compare it to the US. Again, very dependent upon circumstances. Plus it depends if you have children, they are a big expense anywhere, but schools in Bogota are expensive.

If you can earn in US $, no children, then you would probably be really well off in Colombia.

Besides which, morally I dont like the idea of such earnings disparity, while people can live on $1million a month in Bogota, it keeps the people down, where do the majority get the opportunity for a good education as the government does not provide it; when was the last time they were able to take an overseas holiday; how many have to work 6 days a week just to try to get things a little better for their family but then miss out on their family. Hey life is not perfect, a lot of people earning $1million are probably very happy and dont need the bother of a car or overseas holiday.......their is no easy answer that suits all.

timllowe
  9/17/2016 08:08 EST

@LaPiranha

We are even singing from the same hymnal,

Here's where I'm coming from on "gated communities."

I live in an incredibly safe, friendly, fun, lively little town outside Cali. We have one of those walled off neighborhoods set off from the town, up by the foothills. I'm told there are some gringos there but I have no evidence of this.

But I do know when I'm walking by the parque del cholados, and I see a big black Mercedes or (god forbid) a shiny new Land Rover, parked there, that I can spot the owners 100m away. They are the ones, sitting off by themselves, looking over their shoulders, talking with no one. They eat, pay, leave (in a could of dust if they can manage it) having done their slumming for the month.

What kind of way is that to live? Their isolation is born from snobbishness and not safety. To think that an expat would live this way REALLY offends me. Go live in Miami.

As a postscript I'll add that I answered your post last night. As I was enjoying my evening martini, I hit some button. I don't know which one. And everything was gone. I had to decide, "Retype that or make another cocktail?" Guess which won. ;)

cafetero
  9/17/2016 08:14 EST

LP lighten up for chris sake, stop being hysterical and obsessive about how other people spend their money.
I didn´t get ROBBED,
Quite the contrary, I got an excellent haircut, shampoo and a rinse and a little pampering from a very nice lady in a salon.
Of course you can get a haircut for 7,000. Shop around the campesino galleria and you can even get it for 5,000. If you´re that cheap you can even do it yourself for free.
You can also get a cheap plastic cup of coffee in your barrio for 600 pesos.
Or you can do what I do and go to a nice café bar with a pretty barista and pleasant ambiance and good conversation and get an excellent cup of coffee for 1,500. It´s your choice.
Me? I prefer excellent over cheap, every time. It´s my money and I´ll spend it the way I want.

timllowe
  9/17/2016 08:33 EST

So, Cafetero...

I have to ask. Why do you live some place that you need to wall yourself off to avoid being robbed? By definition, an expat is living somewhere by choice.

I'm not arguing, nor do I thing the dangerous fish is arguing, that people live a life of deprivation. Far from it.

The point is, if you can live IN a community, you're just in the wrong place. Or at least you are the wrong person for that place.

I live in a town where I am "el gringo" to everyone. And maybe I am the only one. In 5 years I've run into no others and it's not a big town. I'm just a few minutes from Cali and I have to say, I don't know too many gringos there. I hear people speaking English on the street (or more likely, in PriceSmart) and I have to stop and chat. It's so rare.

People here are incredibly friendly to the old gringo. I'm constantly engaged by random strangers. Oh! You live in Jamundi? You like it? Wow! Nice!

Lately the impromptu conversations turn to Trump. It's not all good. But I have not felt the need to wear maple leaf t-shirts yet. ;)

Panabud
  9/17/2016 09:14 EST

So Medellin and Bogota are better than Flint, Michigan or a bad area in Chicago? Not very inspiring, The main incentive for me living in Colombia are the paisitas and/or low cost of living. As far as being the only gringo in town, no thanks. Been there done that. Where I live now in the U.S. have got it all. Walking distance to a safe and vibrant historic downtown with great night life and entertainment and a bike ride to one of the nicest beaches in the States. Everyone speaks English here but there are tons of immigrants from Latin countries, Colombia included so the place has international flair. It's a great place to live and there's no reason for me to expatriate to another country. Cost of living is cheap for what you get. Rent is on par with Poblado but there is no beach near Poblado so I got a better deal. Plus the dining options here are more diverse and better quality. No worries about security and no gated communities in the area. No bars on windows and you can walk up to any house or apartment and knock on the door. Love it here,

Panabud
  9/17/2016 09:30 EST

Brandon, Chumbo is the N word used in Panama, Their dialect is hard to understand because words are slurred and they use a lot of slang. Panama has a lot of Colombians and Venezuelans and they don't like each other, As far as posting on this forum I am referencing third world which most of Colombia is. Panama was once a province of Colombia before the canal. So my commentary is fair game.

timllowe
  9/17/2016 09:44 EST

@Panabud - I'm a Chicagoan. Clearly the greatest city on the western hemisphere. I've never had a problem there because I'm not stupid enough to hang out in neighborhoods no one would ever be in unless they are without other options. Same is true in Bogota and Medellin (and Cali which is better than either, IMHO.) Bogota suffers from lousy climate, bad air, Capitol city attitude, high prices and did I mention the attitude? Medellin is a fun city with as many options as Bogota minus the downsides. I personally don't like it because it's a bit gringofied. But a lovely town to visit. I choose to live near Cali because I like the climate, love the people, has all the commercial virtues of any major city in the world. It has a reputation for danger stemming from a time, long past, when it was a war zone between guerrillas, the army, the police and the REAL authority in the area, the drug cartels. Those times are long gone and it is a fun place with a rich variety of things to do, places to go, people to meet.

We don't have:
a decent IPA
root beer
decent thai and mexican.

Seems a small price to pay for living so well and so cheaply and without a goddamned Republican in sight. ;)

cafetero
  9/17/2016 11:18 EST

Tim I live in a gated community for one reason....sleep!
I´m just as much a part of the community as you are. I just chose to separate myself from the households that have roosters and barking dogs all night long, and from the streets that have buses and trucks all day and night.

timllowe
  9/17/2016 12:00 EST

I live on a quiet residential street 3 blocks from the Panamerican Highway and 4 blocks from the main drag of town. But I can tell you this, a good rooster crow carries a long long way. ;)

cafetero
  9/17/2016 13:20 EST

I absolutely cannot believe, especially those little foockers, about the size of a coffee mug but they can burst your eardrums at a hundred paces.

I lived near the Pan American for six months, in Popayan, and I darn sure don´t miss that racket....especially the night the guerrillas blew up the bridge north of town.

timllowe
  9/17/2016 13:31 EST

I love Popayan because I'm a landscape photographer. More than 2 days there and I go crazy with boredom.

Yes, I'm far enough away from the highway that I can't hear it except very faintly on a really quiet night.

There is some sort of little eagle that lives in the huge Norfolk pine (or that's what it looks like to me) across the street. He make a real racket.

Kee
  9/17/2016 16:04 EST

Timllowe, practically everything outside the very poor barrios in Armenia is gated. I get your point about the upscale developments advertised to well-off gringos (not my kind of place) but there is gated and there is "gated".

I don't see any downside. The cost added to la administracion is not much more than a rounding error. And added security (which may or may not be needed) is just one of the advantages of having porteros.

Just for context I spend more of my waking hours outside the gate than inside. And my biggest safety concern is crossing the streeet.

timllowe
  9/17/2016 16:15 EST

Well. My apartment building has a door man and a gate to enter the underground parking. But that's not the same as "gated" in my mind.

Kee
  9/17/2016 16:28 EST

Tim, just wanted to know if I understood your point. It's the attitude, not the gate, that's important.

timllowe
  9/17/2016 16:42 EST

Right. My objection is to people who live apart from their community. And particularly expats. I mean, why bother? You're saying, "I hate or fear this place. I just behind the wall."

Bobfrozen1
  9/17/2016 16:57 EST

Panabud,

Got to laugh a little. How on earth do you compare Poblado to wherever you are living when you have never even been there?

I will tell you Medellin has everything you described except a beach. A short flight to Cartagena is easy and cheap (although I prefer the Rosarios). But I guess thats a little more than a bike ride away. But then I can ride a bike in spring like weather all year around so maybe thats a push.

I will not debate the quality of life you have for the price because you have not said where you live. I may have been there or lived close by at one time in my life.

I guess the important thing is you are happy where you live and thats great!!
And I am very happy where I live if I wasn't I would live somewhere else. Hmmmm Maybe I will go to Chicago??? I heard somewhere it is the greatest city in the western hemisphere and maybe it is??

timllowe
  9/17/2016 17:47 EST

Everything but root beer and a decent IPA.

Yeah, Chicago is the greatest city in the western hemisphere. Gringos are ruining it though. ;)

I go there for root beer, IPA, film and chemicals and get back to Cali before the show flies. I'll keep doing that until we get the above in Cali or the beginning of a Trump administration. At least I can have film and chemicals shipped.

timllowe
  9/17/2016 17:50 EST

That would be "before the SNOW flies"

Bad fingers. Bad...

Bobfrozen1
  9/17/2016 17:58 EST

Tim,

I did have some IPA in Medellin. There is an outdoor shopping area when you enter Arvi park One of the kiosks had microbrew or home made IPA it was good!!. Expensive though 6000 pesos :)

I will get some maybe we can share after the show flies in Chicago?? :)

timllowe
  9/17/2016 18:03 EST

Bob, I will overlook the fact that you didn't overlook my typo.

I've had a couple "double" IPA's in Bogota and they were so-so. Too much caramel. There is a brewery in Buga called Holy Water that does a decent IPA. But let's face it. Modelo and Grolsch are what passes for premium beer here.

Bobfrozen1
  9/17/2016 18:08 EST

Tim,
jajajajjj great!!!.

Thanks for the info on the beer and apologies for not overlooking your typo :):)

BrandonBP
  9/17/2016 20:13 EST

"Panabud, I think it's unfair for you to come into this forum and lecture about Colombia when you've never set foot in Colombia." -BrandonBP

"Panama was once a province of Colombia before the canal. So my commentary is fair game." -Panabud

========================================

Well, then let me tell you all about Northern Ireland since I met a guy from there and we had beers one night, I can tell you all about it since there are lots of Irish in Boston and since I'm in Mississippi, from the USA, I can relate and tell you whether or not to live in Northern Ireland. Because I met a dude once.

See how reliable that info sounds? There's certainly the same nexus that you have about Panama and Colombia. Panama is close to Colombia, so you must know all about Colombia since you lived in Panama.

That reminds me... I spent a few hours in Calgary, let me tell you all about Canada...

Kee
  9/17/2016 22:15 EST

Luckily the nearest grocery store sells Belgian beer cheaper than I could get it in the States. But it seems awfully expensive when the price is in pesos.

When I get organized I will be brewing my own, but will have to change my methods (brew small batches) and use different yeast.

cafetero
  9/17/2016 22:30 EST

Yeast seems to be a problem here. i´ve tried several kinds and still can´t get my pizza dough or bread to rise properly, even with double dose of yeast.

BrandonBP
  9/17/2016 23:14 EST

"Brandon, Chumbo is the N word used in Panama, Their dialect is hard to understand because words are slurred and they use a lot of slang. Panama has a lot of Colombians and Venezuelans and they don't like each other, As far as posting on this forum I am referencing third world which most of Colombia is. Panama was once a province of Colombia before the canal. So my commentary is fair game." -Panabud
========================
You keep offering advice on Colombia. And you've NEVER BEEN TO COLOMBIA.

Don't you find that odd? I've been to Panama twice, and Panama and Colombia don't resemble each other in the slightest.

So, again, why are you lecturing everyone here about Colombia when you know NOTHING about Colombia?

BrandonBP
  9/17/2016 23:20 EST

Yeast seems to be a problem here. i´ve tried several kinds and still can´t get my pizza dough or bread to rise properly, even with double dose of yeast.
=======================

It seems that Colombian yeast, like Colombians, just doesn't want to work.

BrandonBP
  9/17/2016 23:23 EST

"Beautiful for me is a sugar sand beach along the coast of Florida, or the state and federal parks and forests in New England."
============================
I was thinking of coming to Colombia permanently to grow scopalimine. They're beautiful plants. And the Bogotenos will buy it daily to rob the gringos.

I have a few thousand dollars to invest in a scopalimine farm. Anyone wanna team up?

SunsetSteve
  9/18/2016 06:27 EST

As a Canadian who has been to Florida countless times over the years, I equate retiring there as a living death. Manicured parks filled with Trump voters and mega malls don't do it for me. To each his own, eh?

Lots of chatter about the pros and cons of Medellin, but more about the pros and cons of smaller towns with a moderate climate would be good.

timllowe
  9/18/2016 08:53 EST

@SunsetSteve - I've always liked Canadians. Never understood the "Snowbirds" though. I know it gets cold in the winter but going to Florida never made any sense to me for exactly the reasons you state. They call it God's Wating Room but I like Living Hell better.

Smaller towns with a moderate climage: Depends on your definition of "moderate." I love where I live so I guess it's moderate to me.

Panabud
  9/18/2016 09:37 EST

You expat ninnies crack me up. So judgmental toward your own people yet tolerant of those who lie and cheat you. If you can't appreciate living in Florida which has warm weather, first world amenities and infrastructure and would rather live in a third world dump then the joke is on you. Have a nice day!

timllowe
  9/18/2016 09:47 EST

"You expats?" Lord. Lord. What's the name of this forum?

Thanks for reinforcing the image of the ugly American. You are why many of us live abroad.

Chao.

Jarmstrong
  9/18/2016 09:52 EST

Florida is a great place to die, Colombia is for
Living

Bobfrozen1
  9/18/2016 09:53 EST

Been a long time since I was called a ninnie.

Panabud you live in Florida?? OMG. I have all the first world amenities in Medellin at half the cost. Why would I ever want to live in Florida with all the crime and violence.
Oh I bet you live in a gated community

timllowe
  9/18/2016 10:05 EST

@Bobfrozen -

You are forgetting all the other great things in Florida:

- old guys driving 20mph in the left lane with their turn signal always on.

- above but also with a big hat.

- the evening stampede at the Early Bird Special.

- The KKK

- Python infestation in the everglades

Oh the list just goes on and on! Where's Dave Barry when you need him?

pocopelo
  9/18/2016 10:10 EST

Now the poor fellow has resorted to name calling. You do come across as a miserable sort.

SkyMan
  9/18/2016 10:10 EST

Cafetero, your comment about dogs barking & roosters crowing, loud cars, cycles...reminds me of a place that I stayed in Puembo, Ecuador. Nice hotel, nice pool/food, but the noise from the barking dogs kept me up most of the night...and had to get up at 4:30 for the early flight back to the
U.S. It is just a fact of life in Latin American countries that the dogs, roosters, etc. are running free & loud. On my last trip, I did not stay
there & slept like a baby.

timllowe
  9/18/2016 10:16 EST

@SkyMan - (As there seems to be no real topic here, I'll ask this. ;)

How did you find Ecuador? I have so many Colombian friends who tell stories of hostility and outright shakedowns at the border. I would like to see Quito some time but I'm frankly afraid of hostility. Maybe not because I'm a gringo but because I have a passport full of Colombian visas.

guestuser
  9/18/2016 10:41 EST

Never had any issues going into Quito either for work or for pleasure with a passport full of Colombian stamps or a residents visa.

timllowe
  9/18/2016 10:44 EST

Crossing by road or arriving in the airport. The stories I've heard (and I've heard quite a few) were about crossing the frontier by car or motorcycle.

germuno
  9/18/2016 10:52 EST

Same same Paradise...always wonder where these people come up with these unfounded statements.

timllowe
  9/18/2016 11:07 EST

@germuno - I don't believe they are unfounded. This seems to be a common thing with Colombians crossing the frontier. And it's not so hard to believe given the animus between the Colombian and Ecuadoran governments. My question was whether this extended to US/UK/CA citizens. I think the answer here is "no."

Razial
  9/18/2016 11:09 EST

SunsetSteve,

I do not live in Medellin or any big city. But I do live in Colombia and have for the past 10 years. Big cities have their advantage but are not to my taste. Have traveled and lived in more countries then I can remember.
I live on a Colombian Island 400 miles of the coast of Colombia. We have two very distinct cultures living here. One the original native population who where brought here by the Puritans as slaves. and the Colombians from the mainland. The original native people consider themselves as Raizals first with Creole English as there native laugage and Colombians and Spanish second. We have a small amount of crime, 80F weather all year clean sea, and friendly people , We have are own Governor and are not required to follow several of the laws that apply to the mainland. We are a tourist Island but have many places that tourist will never get to visit. Life is slow. I fish, dive and just hang out. If you live like a Native costs are low. We are a duty free Island so single malt whiskey sea food and fruit are cheap Many fruits are free from the bush. Not the life style for all but for me paradise.
Just a different view on Colombia..

guestuser
  9/18/2016 11:14 EST

No issues for my wife with her Colombian passport on our travels to Quito by air. She also had the faster 'Andean' Community passport line to enter as well.

Having said that land borders in my experience are generally more difficult presumably because of the opportunities to hide contraband in more places in a vehicle than in airline luggage. For example as I remember it the border experience driving between New York and Montreal was always more protracted than arriving at the airport.

BrandonBP
  9/18/2016 15:42 EST

"How did you find Ecuador? I have so many Colombian friends who tell stories of hostility and outright shakedowns at the border. I would like to see Quito some time but I'm frankly afraid of hostility." - Timllowe

------------------------

I loved Ecuador. I spent three months there in 2013. As a gingo, I felt very welcome. The Ecuadoran president had kicked out the US Airforce and had just offered to give Snowden asylum. But the Ecuadoran people just wave it off and say, "That's government stuff." They treated me very well.

I was walking around Quito one day and saw an Avenida Thomas Jefferson and an Avenida George Washington. I thought it odd, but the Ecuadorans love freedom, so they've named streets after US Founding Fathers.

The Ecuadoran police were very nice. More so than the police in the USA for sure. I was sitting outside my hostel reading a book and drinking a beer one day in Banos, and two federales rolled up in a truck. They approached me and shook my hand and said, "I am officer Pena and this is my partner Officer Gonzales. Welcome to Ecuador. We are here to check passports, will you go get yours please?" Very polite police.

I did have a bit of trouble at the airport with customs. I entered Ecuador the week that Ed Snowden was stuck in Hong Kong trying to get to Ecuador for asylum. I had told my best friend that I hoped they Ecuadorans wouldn't think I was coming to Ecuador to interdict Snowden (I look very government).

Sure enough, a single American male traveling alone.., I was secondaried for hours. But I have to say, the customs guys and army? (the second lot of guys never told me who they were), they were very polite during my interview.

Ecuador is worth a see, no doubt. There's hostility between Ecuador and Colombia. But gringos are welcome.

SunsetSteve
  9/18/2016 19:34 EST

@ Razial: Thanks for the tip. Now to start the search for islands off the coast! :)

timllowe
  9/18/2016 19:56 EST

Have you ever lived on an island? Some love it. It drives me f*cking crazy withing a week.

timllowe
  9/18/2016 19:58 EST

WITHIN. I blame the martini. ;)

Kee
  9/18/2016 20:42 EST

I lived on St. Croix for six months and couldn't wait to get on a larger land mass. And if you think Colombia is dangerous, try walking around Frederiksted after dark, although this was in the 90's, maybe everything is all good now.

germuno
  9/18/2016 20:44 EST

Sort of with you tim on island living if a plane is needed. But I really like island living if there is a daily boat to the mainland. And then every place drives me crazy after a time.

timllowe
  9/18/2016 20:54 EST

@germuno - Yeah. It's just an individual thing. Some people love it and some people (me!) go nuts after a week on an island. God bless 'em. Just not for me, thanks.

meincolombia
  9/19/2016 07:04 EST

I worked on several Caribbean islands back in the 90´s and after a year of it I had had enough. NO more islands for me.
I remember one time doing a five week course in Monserrat, (before it blew up - twice) and wishing it would just rain, or even get cloudy. That freaking sun is harsh, relentless and after you get over the excitement of the ocean and the sunrises and sunsets and a few meals of fresh fish there´s really not much to do except drink rum.
One of my co-teacher´s made up a line, ¨nothing good ever comes from drinking rum in the hot sun¨.

SkyMan
  9/21/2016 20:34 EST

"How did I find Ecuador ? Well, I first "fell" for the bs that Int'l Lying preaches..."eternal Spring", etc. then We made two(2) exploratory tripes...10 days each...in January and March(summer in Ec.) and the weather seemed nice "enough". We compared condo rents/supermarket price, etc. then moved. then we froze out butts off for 3 months(no heat in condos & lows of 42 and highs of 55 during the day-ouch !), and discovered the shopping is not real good. dining in Cuenca is so-so...hence the Move to Medellin=and a great decision it was. The Ec. people are mainly of indian extraction and are shy and stand-offish, whereas the Colombian are from European extraction & definitely more friendly. In life...if you make a mistake=correct it !

meincolombia
  9/21/2016 20:44 EST

jajajaja, when you make a mistake and correct it is called failing forward. Been there and done that a bunch of times.

BrandonBP
  9/21/2016 23:11 EST

The Ec. people are mainly of indian extraction and are shy and stand-offish, whereas the Colombian are from European extraction & definitely more friendly.
===========================

I agree with this. The Ecuadorans are definitely more conservative and a bit shy sometimes. Not all of them. I was approached a few times and some elderly man would ask our group if we were having fun and he'd tell us some good places to go see. But they sort of mind their own business and they may act a bit shy and nervous if you try to talk to them.

Ecuadorans and Colombians are very different, which I find odd since they used to be the same country. But Colombians can know you for 30 minutes and invite you to a party, whereas Ecuadorans will invite you to do things only after knowing you for a few weeks. But when you get in with just one Ecuadoran, his friends will welcome you and be very good to you. And I'm of course generalizing. I met three Ecuadoran army guys in Cuenca one night and they treated me like a brother. We had a huge time.

I enjoy both places.

8901
  9/21/2016 23:14 EST

Glad to hear in the end things worked out for you SkyMan.

Leelet
  9/25/2016 07:56 EST

Oh, by the way, let's be realistic. Florida is not perfect. It almost annually suffers from hurricanes. And I just moved from near Palm Springs, CA where I lived on the old Bob Hope golf course; in it's day the place for all the movie stars to build. Over half the houses have septic tanks, because when that area was developed there were no public utility lines. So did Lucy and Desi and Clark Gable live in a third world. No place is perfect. California has earthquakes, the Midwest has tornados, the East coast has hurricanes AND snow. Pick your poison and don't complain.

SkyMan
  9/25/2016 11:59 EST

Tim, the smuggling of American liquors is the main reason for problems at the border crossing. Ecuador taxes booze hugely, as they know mostly...the gringos drink it & with the economic state in Ec. now the Govt. need all the tax $$$ they can get. The Ec. economy is in rally bad shape now...the airport in Cuenca has only 2 airlines Latam & Tame(who cancels many flights) *it's state-owned) and the hotels here are singin the blues, restaurants too.

SkyMan
  9/25/2016 11:59 EST

Tim, the smuggling of American liquors is the main reason for problems at the border crossing. Ecuador taxes booze hugely, as they know mostly...the gringos drink it & with the economic state in Ec. now the Govt. need all the tax $$$ they can get. The Ec. economy is in rally bad shape now...the airport in Cuenca has only 2 airlines Latam & Tame(who cancels many flights) *it's state-owned) and the hotels here are singin the blues, restaurants too.

SkyMan
  9/25/2016 12:02 EST

sorry about the double post...computer's acting up right now
it's switching back to aol...all by itself=?

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