I apologize for the multiple post copies. I would delete them if I could.

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I wish I could help more with specifics about Bogata, but we haven't been to that part of Colombia yet...a bit cold for us, but sure we will do the tourist thing eventually.

What I did think of was a book to read "Walking in the Clouds", about a Journalist who did what you are describing with his family during some of the darker times in recent Colombian history. Things are far better (safer) today, but the insights into the cultural differences largely probably true today.

If you felt Panama safe enough, I think you will be OK in Bogata.

Bogata probably better than Medellin, Cartagena and Santa Marta, but learning some Spanish is probably necessary.

Taxes are an issue, you can subtract your US taxes paid off your Colombian tax bill. You will be taxed separately from your spouse, there isn't anything like a joint return. The only way to really estimate is speaking to a tax professional.

Good Luck!

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You have much consider! Schools are private and curriculum is in English. Nueva Granada and the British schools are considered the best.

El Chico is one of the best neighborhood and very central to shops, restaurants and entertainment. Also, gorgeous spacious apartments!

Chia is a suburb with nice gated communities, but a bit of pain to commute because of traffic and lacks the convenience many people want.

Taxes are complicated and if you do a search on this forum, you'll see many threads on this topic. You need to consult a professional to asses your particular situation. If your husband is going under the USG then there is no problem!

Conclusion: Regardless of any issues, your kids will learn Spanish fluently by the time you return to the U.S. Many of my friends had kids same age as yours and all became fluent in Spanish (The gift that keeps giving!).

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Thank you all for the information! I'm relieved that nobody has said that this is insane to consider. Here at home a lot of people seem surprised that we would take children there, but it seems like the precautions of any large city would keep a family safe.

We felt very comfortable in Panama, so I appreciate the comparison.

Recently traveled to Costa Rica with only my daughter to work with an animal rescue and felt safe enough as long as we were smart.

I speak a little Spanish (better than I listen to Spanish!) but am excited about the possibility for my daughters to gain some fluency. We would plan on all of us studying Spanish to take advantage of being part of a Spanish speaking community.

If anybody has stories to share about moving/living there with children I would very much appreciate hearing them!

Are there any places to roller skate in most neighborhoods?

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Shinedalgam, you really need to visit Bogota before seriously considering the decision. In the meantime envision Houston with more traffic and pollution (but a much better climate).

We visit as often as we can (I have two step-sons there) and I feel very comfortable in the better neighborhoods but I worry about what I am breathing. But (full disclosure) I had the same thoughts when I worked in those refineries in Pasadena and Deer Park.

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For me it's the sh*tty attitude toward everyone (think NY City) and the permanent headache from the bad air and altitude.

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@shinedalgarn

I'm don't know under what circumstances your family is relocating to BG, but if it's through your husband's job, I assume you have the benefit of a relo package. If this is the case? It would be insane not to go!

I recommend that you contact American Citizen's services at the U.S. Embassy and inquire about events and activities that they sponsor. Your family's social calendar will be very full.

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Yes, it would be a relo package with my husband's company.

Even if we don't LOVE it, we think we can handle most circumstances for 2 years.

I really would love for my children to have the opportunity to live outside of the United States. Also, it is a very good opportunity for my husband.

Sadly, there will not be an opportunity to do a pre-decision visit, so we are relying heavily on information that we can find here and other places on the internet.

From what I can find, if we are living in a nice neighborhood, particularly in one of the large apartment complexes the security should not be an issue. I just want to make sure there isn't something I'm missing regarding that.

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I recommend to go to usaquen to eat they have very good restaurant's for example
La Mar it's great, good lock.

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Ok, here is my take on you situation...

Your relo package will afford you to live very well in the best part of Bogota in a secure building with a semi-private elevator.

You will live walking distance to "La Zona Rosa" and "Parque 93" which is the hub of tourist activity in Bogota and has a European feel.

Your kids will make new friends in their elite school and their parents be will professionals, politicians and diplomats that will become you social circle.

You are very concerned with safety because of the negative press that you have heard over the years, but BG is like any other major city and common sense is your best defense. I live in NYC and I don't go for walks in the south Bronx. Same principle applies to BG.

Your family will travel throughout Colombia and get to know all the regions which is a fantastic experience!

Colombians are extremely welcoming and your transition will be easy providing you don't get hung up over silly things.

Your husband's company/agency will probably give you orientation regarding day to day living.

YOU WILL HAVE A MAID! I really miss mine...

It will be hard to come back because of the friends and fun that you will have.

" The only risk is wanting to stay"

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Thank you so much! Your 'take on' our situation is what I've been researching and hoping to hear reassurance of.

If it were just us, and not the children, we would feel less concern, but with them coming we want to be as sure as we can be that this is the type of situation we are getting in to.

It sounds like a great 'big city living' experience and I think they will learn a lot from it and enjoy it.

So will I!

I really appreciate everybody taking the time to post answers and provide input. We are becoming very excited to spend a couple of years learning about Colombia.

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"For me it's the sh*tty attitude toward everyone (think NY City) and the permanent headache from the bad air and altitude." -timllowe
===========================

I found that in a group sort of setting, like a soccer match or a bar, the Bogotenos are as friendly as anywhere else in Colombia. Very welcoming and fun.

But yeah, just walking around the city or visiting a park or riding the bus, they can seem pretty cold if you say anything to them. I'm from the Southern USA, so I have a tendency to say hello to people. And the Bogotenos many times seem nervous, like, "Why are you talking to me? I don't know you."

But I guess it's to be expected in Bogota. The people are a bit suspicious as in a huge city like New York. Perhaps they're worried that you're about to run a scam or take something or beg for money.

I can relate. I'm also suspicious in Bogota when some guy gets chatty. And I was a bit standoffish to one guy that just needed directions. I thought he was gong to beg for cash (gringos get begged for cash a lot). And I always find it a bit humorous that Colombians will ask me for directions. Like I can possibly know where anything is. I suppose I have an honest look. But I was so proud of myself one day in Medellin; I was actually able to tell a guy where something was. :)

The Bogotenos seem to have a danger radar that is on alert. The girl I dated in Bogota would grab my arm and make me cross the street occasionally when we were about to cross paths with some guys. So I'd ask why.

She'd say those guys are ladrones (thieves) or caspas (nere-do-wells).

I'd say, "How do you know? Do you know them?"

And she'd say, "No, they just are."

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Going with a relo package should make a world of difference. Lived there with two young children and only wifes income and I grew to dislike Bogota but more for personal frustrations I think.

With a job (or two) Bogota should become much more feasible and the children are older so probably have a bit more sense than my 3 / 1 year olds. Schools apparently are good, plenty of things to do and beautiful parts of Colombia to visit within easy flight or drive distance.

Main downsides, Chia is generally too far to commute unless working on outskirts. Chico is nice enough, certainly will be a big city life. Traffic is terrible, worst still on Saturdays, if you want to get out of town leave early. Make a list of to-do and to-see things near and around Bogota and 2 years will fly by.

Your situation sounds like a perfect match to Bogota, I would jump at the opportunity.

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Is it safe to travel around Colombia? I do not mean to seem naive, but I've read in multiple places to stay in the city to avoid being kidnapped, do not go to any remote places, etc etc....

Can you give me an example of things we would be able to and see safely while we are there so I can talk to my family and help get them excited?

I think living anywhere with children that young would lead to frustration! You've got that right! :D

We believe we will be able to work it out so that I will be able to keep my remote job that I currently work from home. It will be great to have two incomes still, I think going to only one would of been uncomfortable for us.

I understand that housekeeping services are super affordable there, are there similar things for personal car services?

One of my worries about apartment living (Even though they appear really large and modern) is that I have a dog that will need to be taken out to potty. Do most places have green spaces or dog runs? How hard is it to find a dog sitter or dog sitting if we want to go somewhere for a weekend?

Thank you all again! I'm really excited!

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Yes, it's safe to travel around Colombia. In-country flights are cheap and if you don't mind 5-10hr bus rides, you can go by land. Again, use common sense and do not go off somewhere in the middle of the jungle on a nature walk!

There are plenty of travel/tour services that offer pre-planned guided tours or give you safe destinations of places to visit with no hassles.

Kidnapping in Colombia is mostly a thing of the of the past, but crime is still factor you need to keep in mind. Don't wear expensive jewelry, use expensive smartphones or count your money on the street. Simple rules that will prevent much unpleasantness.

Regarding your dog...

I adopted/rescued several dogs in Bogota. If you live in Chico you can walk your dog in a nearby park like every other dog owner or you can hire dog walking service like may people (very cheap!).

There are a ton of dog resorts/kennels where you can board your dog that are very good. They're mostly located in an area called "LA CALERA" in the outskirts of north Bogota and their prices are terrific compared to the U.S. Many kennels in Chia as well.

DO NOT TAKE YOU DOG TO HOT WEATHER CLIMATE TOWNS OUTSIDE OF BOGOTA. He/she will get lime disease and it's a long, costly and arduous treatment.

Check out the dog resorts yourself for cleanliness, vet access and talk to neighbors and fellow dog owners about recommendations. I used one called "DOG RESORT" in La calera. They picked up my dogs every morning, took them to day camp where they played all day and dropped them off around 3pm. The cost is about $100 U.S. per month per dog for this day camp service, and terrific for single people who don't want to leave their dog at home alone. Overnight boarding was about 12 buck per night.

Parasites are a problem for dogs in Colombia and it's important to have your dog's stool tested periodically. Vet services are excellent and very affordable. My one dog costs more in the states than my 5 dogs did in Colombia.

Bogota buildings are very dog friendly, but never let your dog off the leash!

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Yes: it is safe to travel around Colombia. There are a few places in/around Bogota to see. If you chose to drive, it's no worse than any other Latin American country...lot's of honking, passing around corners on mountains...so yes...be vigilant and careful. Better yet...just take taxis around Bogota. Rent a car for the few days to go to the locations outside of Bogota.

A quick plane trip can take you to several other cities/areas to explore. Check out TripAdvisor for things to do in Colombia, and areas to explore.

Don't worry about having only one income....you will do very well with only one.

Housekeeping is very affordable, but DO NOT hire a person directly. ONLY hire through a company/service. It may come with your rental if it is being done though a relo package.

You will see dog poop on sidewalks..people don't pick up. I'm not familiar with the areas you discuss, but I imagine there would be lots of green space. There are also several dog breeds that are not allowed in Colombia...I've seen the list somewhere. Some airlines also won't fly dogs overseas or in hot climates.

It would be easy to find a dog sitter, but again, try to find a company or service to do it and avoid hiring direct.

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You can goggle "dog resort Bogota" and their face book page comes up where you will see photos and a full description of services. Good luck!

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This is all such good info and I'm feeling very much like Bogota will be a fantastic decision for us!

I appreciate all of the info you have all taken the time to share with me!

I'm excited to know that we will be able to take some side trips and see more than I planned!

I'm so glad that the conditions will be great for my dog!

She's a small shiz tsu mix so is okay on the list of dogs that aren't allowed.

Really good info here and it's unbelievably nice of you guys to share what you know with me!

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I think the safety issue in Bogota is being downplayed in here. I know I've harped on it much recently, but I had a lot of trouble with the taxis in Bogota. Taxi robberies are rampant. Scopolamine druggings are rampant. There are people here that will tell you they've been in Bogota for 10 years and never had a problem. And that's good. I wouldn't wish that sort of anguish upon anyone. I think perhaps it's just random luck and maybe mine is bad. But it happens A LOT in Bogota. Many taxi robberies go unreported and many never make the news. But it's not difficult to google crime in Bogota and see what goes on.

If I can stress this advice... Find a few few drivers you trust - ask some neighbors - and use them every time. My three separate incidents were all from hailing them off the street. When you call for a taxi, there's a dispatch log. When you take a taxi from the bus station or airport, there's a record.

But when you're alone and hail a taxi off the street, there's no record, and they know if you're new that you won't even know if you're traveling in the right direction.

A Colombian girl I know in Bogota fussed at me after the third incident saying, "STOP taking taxis by yourself off the street, dummy!"

So, if you HAVE to take a taxi off the street, take a photo of the plates with your phone and email it to a friend, spouse, etc. Let the driver see you do it. I think this is very important, because it only takes once to run into the wrong driver. And I can attest that it causes a world of hurt.

I'm sure you'll be fine, and I don't want to sound dire or to rain on anyone's time in Bogota. But I think if you take the steps above, you can cut out most of the danger.

Salud!

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Just use:
easytaxi
tappsi
uber

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In Cali, Uber goes "surge" at 6pm. Every day. Is that common elsewhere?

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I saw Uber surge in Medellin at afternoon rush hour. We used them a few times the last couple weeks on our visit with terrific service. The long term question is if the government will push them aside, and out of business.

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I've used Uber exactly once in Cali as there were two of us and a lot of luggage. It was great. Fast, cheap, zero hassle. I have had easytaxi on my fone for more than a year and never had occasion to use it. Taxis are so plentiful in Cali.

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I find the opposite here. Uber less, Easy Taxi more and more available drivers are available in Monteria. Never had a problem with Easy Taxi and use the app mostly. Only used Uber in Cartagenaa couple of times was fine and more comfortable rides using the Duster mini SUVs Than the tiny taxis. Barranquilla I find them 50/50 slit but taxi drivers seem to tally try to force the Ubers out.

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I've got no problem with easytaxi. I've just never needed it. Stick up your hand and a cab appears here. And CHEAP. My god, it's cheap. If there's two of you it's usually cheaper than the MIO unless you are going really far.

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Good information on taxi's. Thank you. We will be very mindful of which ones we use. I'm really surprised there are not more 'private driver on call' type agencies or options.

For example, I understand it is a long commute probably to the school for my children. The school provides door to door transport, BUT what if one becomes ill in the middle of the school day? Do parents get a taxi and use that to go get them if they don't have a car?

It's sounding that way!!! Thank you for the responses.

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@shinedalgarn ,

Don't sweat the car issue!

One of the major benefits of living in Colombia is the cost of living and very affordable personal services.

I had a car that I rarely used because of the parking hassle and other issues. I established a relationship with a few taxi drivers who would take me anywhere and wait for me until I finished my business. Uber was not yet around, but you can also hire a car service company that will be at your disposal anytime you need them.

Other wonderful personal affordable services are beauty
care, massages, medical, pet grooming, torturing and many more!

PS
I got rid of my car after 2 years because it was easier not having one. The only thing I don't recommend in Bogota is taking the buses. Too many pick pockets and just not the way to go fro gringos. The U.S. Embassy prohibits all employees from taking public transportation (buses) for a reason.

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Does the US Embassy have any rules about its employees taking advantage of affordable torturing?

I must admit I never have asked how much those Bogota 'Chop-Shops' charge.

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That is really interesting about the buses and good to know, thank you.

Can you give me some ideas of the costs of the services you mentioned? I think/hope torturing was a typo:D HEH:D

I do realize I will figure all of this out once we get there, but we are still in the decision making process and this information you are providing to me so graciously is so valuable to our process.

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yes, I meant "tutoring". The costs of all these services are a fraction of the cost in the U.S. For example, the average cab ride will cost about 2 dollars and a massage at home will cost you 10-15 dollars for an hour. My wife would get her hair and nails (feet too) done at home for about 16 dollars. Just to give you idea.

When you get there, you will meet many people who will recommend various service providers.

I don't know your situation, but know that it's usually easier when one spouse goes down first and preps the arrival for the family. It takes much of the stress and anxiety off the table.

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Wow!!! I thought massages here were inexpensive! Those are great prices for services!! That's very exciting!! Sign me up! I'm ready to go now! :D

The car info was really good, we have been wondering if we really 'need' a car at all and were hoping we could get by without one.

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@PL

Yup, made a typo sorry. No "chop shop" sold my car to ex girlfriend:-)

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I'd personally have much more trepidation and unease if I were moving to Houston, than were I moving to Bogotá.

Nevertheless it can be a dangerous city, do a search for 'bogotá bronx' for instance.

But mostly as gringos you may be a target for street robbery - the same as are many good citizens of Bogotá.

Do not be fearful, but always be aware of your surroundings and what's going on.

numbeo.com has some comparisons:
http://www.numbeo.com/crime/city_result.jsp?country=Colombia&city=Bogota

http://www.numbeo.com/crime/city_result.jsp?country=United+States&city=Houston%2C+TX

It's almost a wash and Bogotá in my experience is much more pleasant than Houston (albeit much less pleasant than many other places in Colombia).

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Having a family may create a greater need for a car, especially for weekend road trips to Melgar, Villadeleiba, Giradot and other terrific areas outside of Bogota.

If need be? buy a junker and sell it on your departure, but you can reach all these places via tour buses.

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WN said, "Bogotá in my experience is much more pleasant than Houston (albeit much less pleasant than many other places in Colombia."

Amen, brother.

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I'll start off with some of the costs - I'm in Medellin, not Bogota, but it should be comparable.

On maids the service we use charges COP65,000 a day - that's from around 7:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. It's cheaper to hire directly, but as others have mentioned it can be a real pain - and you need to worry about issues like paying retirement payments on their behalf.

It's surprising how many staff some families have. There's a working couple in our building and they have two young children. They have a cook, a couple nannies and a cleaner. Most apartments have maids quarters and many families have live in help. That's a personal decision.

I've worked in Colombia either visiting, or as a resident, for several years. One of the tasks I've had was bringing ex-pats to live in country.

One thing that I think is important is whether your husbands company has other ex-pats in Bogota or whether he's the only one. Unlike other countries I've been to Colombia doesn't have a really strong ex-pat community. In reality there aren't a huge number of ex-pats working even in a city like Bogota. If there are other ex-pats in the company you'll have a ready made 'network'. If not, it's a little bit more difficult.

Working days for your husband will be long. The days generally start early and then get extended by long lunch breaks. Add in the traffic and the commuting and your husband will likely be out of the house for a pretty long time during the day. For some wives that can be an issue as it tends to keep them house bound. It looks as if you'll be able to keep working which will dissipate that somewhat but it's a complaint I've heard more than once.

On weekends Bogota is a vibrant city but it's pretty common for people to head out of town to the country for the weekend. Many will tell you a car isn't needed - but getting out of the city at the weekend is more problematic without one, in particular if you want to drive around during the weekend.

A lot of the feedback you'll get here is that Colombia is very, very cheap. That's true - many people earn around COP 600,000 a month. Even a salary of the equivalent of $10-$15,000 for a professional is considered 'good'.

However, just in case your husband's company pushes the 'cheapness' of Bogota you might want to push back a little. Living as an ex-pat and keeping some of the standard of living that you're used to in the US isn't cheap. For example it's possible to rent very cheaply, but the sort of apartment an ex-pat with family is going to want is going to be rather more premium priced. Anything imported (and there are things that you'll want) are more expensive. That's everything from US jeans, computers, cosmetics etc. In the same way if you do have a car they're more expensive here - both new and used - than in the US.

Many years ago, when I travelled for a major US company in the region Colombia had the highest 'hardship' allowance in the region. Colombia has improved significantly (and personal risk has improved out of recognition) but it's a long way from a truly International city. You will be surprised how few international food items there are in the shops and you'll quickly get bored with the limited amount of meat options in the shops. Equally you'll wonder why the place recommended to you as a 'great fish shop' only has frozen goods.

All of which sound negative. Actually I think that the posting should be attractive for you and your family. Your husband will be busy, your kids will be happy at their school. Perhaps the person more at risk is yourself and not getting bored.

But watch the details of that relocation offer. Often US HR departments have little awareness of what living in Colombia is like - and the feedback they get from the local site might not really reflect the needs of an ex-pat. I remember a US HR person showing me the costs she had been quoted for a two bedroom apartment in Bogota for an assignee and me pointing out just how small the apartment she was considering the benchmark. It's amazing how many companies want a decision without offering a look around visit. Personally I'd pay for one yourself - just a long weekend - but it'll give you a much better idea.

In terms of your monthly spend (excluding the apartment and the school fees which I presume the company will pick up) my guess is that your monthly spend will be somewhere between $3-4,000. If the apartment isn't included that could easily be another $3,000.

Most foreigners who live here spend a fraction of that, but if you have a pretty busy social life, travel in Colombia a reasonable amount and try to live a 'comparable' life to your home location I'd guess it's accurate.

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I'm really loving all of this input, even the opposing views to give me insight in to the pros and cons of living in Colombia!

So many well thought out and really informative and interesting posts.

I appreciate and consider every single comment! Thank you!

Yes, one of our concerns as we wait to get all of the finalized details from his business is that here in Texas very large houses are relatively affordable. Our current house is quite large and even the large apartments will be a downsizing for us in space. We also think this could be a positive thing as we sort of 'clear out the old'. A chance to really reboot! We are very anxious to hear the more specific details from HR, and the waiting is murder.

We do know that we will want an unfurnished place and they will ship our household goods. We do not even want to think about renting a furnished place because our cats have their claws and love to show off with them.....on our furniture. We do not want to get in to trouble for that, so we want to just have our own (preshredded) stuff.

As a basic list do you guys have things you absolutely would NOT bring and things you absolutely MUST bring??

Easier to sell our cars here and buy a junker there it sounds like.

Washer and dryer? Bring or store?

Things like that.

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Moving stuff to Colombia is extremely expensive and often has problems. You're much better to persuade the company to give you money to buy stuff and ship as little as you can. You will probably find that unfurnished places at least have stoves and refrigerators (fitted kitchens). US electrical goods will work here in but equally why drag a TV down here when you can buy a new Samsung for not much more than the US price
.
Furniture here isn't the greatest quality and isn't always cheap. One trick is to pick up some antiques. There's some really good old pieces down here. Equally there are an increasing numbers of design studios that will make you a really pleasant dinner table and chairs for a fraction of the US cost (and probably less than it will cost you to ship it). Beds down here aren't too expensive and a reasonable price.

If you're a cook bring your pans and knives. You can get good quality US, French and German cookware here but it's much cheaper in the US.

Bed coverings are much better quality in the US. I'd suggest bringing sheets, duvet covers and duvets and buying pillows down here.

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@Shinedalgarn's

Your relo package includes the apt, THAT IS HUGE!

I had the same and no rent or mortgage allowed me to save a very pretty penny when I was down there.

Also, you are allowed household goods which means no need to buy creature comforts in Colombia (NICE!). Periodic shopping trips to Miami/Houston will give you the opportunity to bring back the must haves!

Bogota has a huge expat community tied to the U.S. Embassy. That is why I previously recommended that you contact American Citizen's Services for excursions, tours and activities where you will have the opportunity to meet them and expand your social network.

They are a great reference point for all the questions that you have asked and most of them live the Chico and Rosales area of Bogota.

If you own your home in Houston? consider renting it and hiring a management company to look after things. Many relo packages pay for this. Being rent/mortgage free is so nice:-)

I don't know what school your kids will attend, but "La Nueva Granada" is where all the embassy kids go. If you can get the company to send them there? You will definitely be plugged in to the embassy community.

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You cannot bring your cars anyway...well, you can, but they are highly taxed, unless you are US Gov't. If you find yourselves traveling a lot on weekends, buy a safe junker. Or rent on the weekends.

Repeating others: Might be easier to keep your items in a rental space in US, and purchase household items in Colombia...especially furniture.

If your company is offering furnished rental, do it. It will take months to get your items shipped to you, and it is a huge hassle going through customs. I can't imagine the headaches to try to ship them back.

If you don't get a furnished rental, be prepared to get a hotel for 4-8 weeks (or furnished rental) until you receive the items you sent or purchase in Colombia.

The logistics of trying to send is a nightmare. You have to live without for a while wherever you are...then you have to live without for a while in Colombia.

Most places in Colombia only have washer (or space for one)...no dryer. Everything is hung dry and the apartments will have a space for that. Get use to doing a few clothes by hand too!

Closets are generally smaller, so fewer clothes...

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Your relo package will allow a max household goods weight. Use it! it's free!

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What we've heard so far is that we would be given a 40 ft shipping container for household goods and yes we would need to stay in a hotel while we wait. This seems mind boggling to me with our kids/pets! A hotel?! For a month? Eep!

Their stuff arrived about a month after they did and they used that time to apartment hunt (this is all hearsay, kind of second hand too from my husband lol!)

I'm sad now about the dryers, LOL:D

I like the idea of renting cars on weekends that we need one. That seems like a very good idea!

Yes, I recognize the name of that school as one of the ones we were looking at. I will for sure keep that one in mind. I think it will be a difficult choice!

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I will politely disagree with all that tell you not ship your stuff to Colombia. THIS IS TRUE IF YOU ARE MAKING THE MOVE ON YOUR OWN, but your company is paying for it and makes life real easy to have your own stuff follow you.

The shipping companies will pack you up, take care of any issues with customs and unpack you in Bogota. Been there and done it!

You're going first class and not paying out of pocket. The return is actually easier because U.S. customs is more efficient and you will sell most of your old stuff on your return. It takes an average of 30-45 days for your goods to arrive and ask if your relo company provides "basic" temporary furniture for your unfurnished apartment pending the arrival of you shipment. They did in my case.

If you where thinking of buying new stuff, do it now!

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Forgot to mention...the shipping company carefully details your goods and pay/ replace for anything damaged. I had minimal damage and they took care of it immediately.

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I had to live in a hotel for 60 days prior to getting my apartment. I stayed at LA FONTANA in the north of Bogota because they have apartments and no pet restrictions! Very comfortable, but a little out of the way from the tourist area. No problem since cabs are cheap and the hotel has a fleet for their guest.

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00abuse

check them out on the web, you can get a preview

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00abuse

I do think that your situations that you describe dliss sound very much like what ours will be. Waiting for the 'details' is killing us with anticipation. Apparently we should have 'in writing' in a couple of weeks from now, but knowing things like how much apartments cost and about the cars and furniture etc etc.....these are the things that will help us do the math and make sure we make the right decision and be prepared.

I can say that I really want it all to work out. This sounds like a very great opportunity for our family and it's right up our alley.

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00abuse

Moving to Colombia is not easy, but a corporate move is much easier and a great opportunity. I speak from my personal experience and the experience of my colleagues who most have large families. It was a rewarding experience and would not hesitate to do it again! Good Luck!

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00abuse

One more thing...Apartments in El Chico or Rosales are luxury buildings and are equipped with maids quarters and laundry rooms with large washers and dryers. Some also have saunas or steam rooms.

Clothes lines in these neighborhoods is not something that you will see.

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Check out http://www.exito.com this is like Walmart in Colombia and would give you a idea of the prices of thinks you might need. Also try living with out a car first and see how you like it. I know coming from Texas you need a car for everything very different here in Colombia.

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00abuse

La Fontana looks like a great place to stay!

Thanks for the exito link, that is very helpful for price comparisons!!!!!

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00abuse

Doesn't Exito have combination washer/dryers? I thought I saw them so you might want to check.

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Someone posted about it being dangerous to take buses. That was not my experience while I lived there. Granted, most of my bus rides were between Alto Chapinero and Chico. From what I gather it's the Transmilenio buses that need to be avoided. That's where the majority of pickpocketing takes place. The regular run of the mill buses and the Transmilenio are two different kettles of fish. I learned to avoid the buses during rush hour though. It was actually faster to walk! Always quite a logjam near calle 100.

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DLISS definitely has the experience here...

In the relo package...make sure there is a return shipment included. I had a coworker come to the States from overseas, and when he returned, he found out a return container was not included.

On what to bring: if you have large furniture...that king bed or table for 8...consider leaving them. They may work...but just be cautious you may not have anywhere to put it.

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@ pocopelo

I posted the advice regarding the buses.

The U.S. embassy in Bogota prohibits employees from taking city buses to include trans-mileno due to the crime on board the buses. This includes pick pocketing and in some cases the entire bus being held at gun point and passengers robbed (sometimes the driver is in on it).

Chances are that if you take a bus nothing will happen to you, but as an obvious looking gringo it's best not give "papaya".

The embassy looks out for the safety of it's employees and views the city buses a risk. It also views taxis a risk and only condones taxis that have been radio dispatched with a code or Uber type services.

Hailing cabs off the street is prohibited in lieu of the unfortunate murder of DEA Agent Terry Watson in 2013.

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Prior to my arrival in Colombia I was told that my goods did not meet the weight and had room left. My colleagues all requested TOILET PAPER! I did not understand, but went to Costco and bough a pallet a toilet paper. I got many stares from people and it seemed that I was on that line forever! Turns out that at time, toilet paper in Colombia was rough and poor quality, while U.S. paper is smooth and has a soft cloth feel. Colombians that used my bathroom would sometimes take the roll with them!

Been away for a few years and don't know if this is still holds true? Has the quality improved?

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00abuse

It's certainly not true in Cali, but in Bogotá - ¿quién sabe?

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00abuse

In Medellin we have Suave Gold that I like. Recently I saw Charmins but haven't tried it yet.

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00abuse

I didn't have any trouble on the many Bogota buses I used. But I usually keep my pocket buttoned and my hand resting on it in case someone tries to fish out my wallet.

I didn't enjoy the Bogota buses a lot. I would try to convince my date a lot of times that I'd just pay for a taxi, but they're used to the bus and they want the bus because it's much cheaper for longer trips across the city.

Why don't the camionetas have any shock absorbers? The shuttle looking buses will jar you to death. It's like they're trying to hit every pothole.

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We have recently moved to Bogota with a teenager who is going to Colegio Gran Bretaña and enjoying it. There are loads of American families there as well as families from around the world: a real international feel.
We've chosen to live in Usaquen as it was a village which became part of Bogota so still has it's village square and can be peaceful. There are also loads of bars and restaurants. We stayed in Chicó in a dog friendly apartahotel but found it quite a noisy area, but distances to work and school are in important consideration.
We don't ship furniture but we're pleased to have brought our bedding but disappointed not to have brought more baking kitchen things as they are expensive but good crockery is available at reasonable prices.
Good luck with the decision making.

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@Returnee

I've heard that the school you chose is great and the video I saw of it is SO BEAUTIFUL. Our one concern with it is the schedule differences from the U.S. (Summer break starts a couple weeks later, etc) and we have custody visitations to consider.

Would you mind giving me your reasons for choosing Gran Bretana over Nueva Granada?

Where did you stay in Chico with your dog?

What did you do with your 'life in the states'?

Did you have a house to sell? Did you store your belongings, etc?

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shinedalgarn. Hi. I've been away for a few days, just got back and read you are moving to Bogota. I am to Bogota, what Tim Lowe is to Cali. Love it here, and when you know where is safe or not safe, then you'll have very few problems, I am sure. I visited for a month or two, for 15 years, and have now lived here permanently for 3 years next month.

As regards schools, my children (similar ages to yours) go to the Anglo Colombian. Its on Carerra 19, with 153. Its one of the best schools in Colombia, and to give an example, its where many top government officials, and leaders from business send their kids. I understand that Pres. Santos also sent his kids there (I think they left in the last year or two) and other former presidents also. Their security is the highest, with armed guards, not only at the gates, but patrolling the grounds continuously. This is because many years ago, when the guerrillas were active, it was common for schools to be targeted, kidnapping the kids for hostage/ransoms.

In fact, this very morning we received an alert from the school .....

"""Dear ....... ,

Shortly after 11:00am on Friday 23rd September 2016 the Security Team at the Anglo received reports of a suspected intruder entering the campus.

The Rector immediately instructed a full security lock-down and the rehearsed systems worked perfectly. The campus has now been declared safe, all members of our community are accounted for and the school has returned to normality.

Regards, """


Security is rehearsed by all staff and security personnel religiously and often, without scaring the kids, and you'll never hear of any events like you do in the US where some crazed junkie or madman goes in and shoots up a school. Today it ran like clockwork, and the whole incident was over within a few minutes. They also communicate with parents exceptionally well. I am never worried about my children's safety whilst at school, and know that they will be taken good care of.

The standard of education is also extremely high, and the new rector has been making further improvements, and the exam results are higher than you'll find most other places. Its a bi-lingual school, which will certainly help for a smooth transition for your children, obviously having been taught in English so far, and they are helped with their Spanish until they can confidently work in the language.

Hope your move goes well, and welcome to Colombia.

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Hi, We're from Britain so we're looking for a compatible education system so we didn't consider Nueva Granada. Like you, we couldn't visit first to check out the school but are really pleased with the atmosphere at CGB. It's a small school in lovely grounds and thinks of school as family. The kids are really nice to each other and help others to settle in quickly. Also the teachers are native English speakers, whereas native speakers were in the minority at
Our package doesn't involve moving furniture. We have a house in Britain we are going to rent out and we stored a few items of furniture that were particularly important to us and sold or donated the rest as we don't plan to go back to that house.
In Chicó we stayed in Celebrity Suites. We have lived here before so know the areas and wanted to be in Usaquen for the small town feel and it cuts travel time to CGB. Chicó wasn't for us but does have a lot going for it.
For dog transport/export Aviomar for the Colombia end were good.

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00abuse

My first reaction to the armed guards was OMG THAT IS SO SCARY!!

.....and then I realized my daughter's high school has police assigned full time, and it's not really any different!

It's funny how our minds are trained to be fearful, but when you think about it, things aren't all that different, and definitely not worse statistically.


Good information about the 'stuff you leave behind'. And that makes more sense to me about choosing CGB being British!

Do any other people that have done corporate moves have information to share about what you did with your house and stuff back at home? Would love input on that!

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00abuse

For you already in Colombia: Read #4
http://youngadventuress.com/2013/03/things-no-one-tells-you-about-moving-abroad-2.html

For ideas on what to bring, check out these sites (I haven't read them):
http://www.internationalmovers.com/international_guide/items_behind.html

http://www.expatyourself.com/2010/10/how-to-pack-for-international-moves/

http://www.relocation.com/library/overseas_guide/how_to_pack_for_an_international_move.html

When we moved to the UK from Chicago, we sold most of our household items, keeping only the antiques/family pieces in storage. We were fortunate in that our church opened up an unused classroom for storage our things for the two years we were gone.

Once in England, we bought most of our furniture at auction houses. (we stayed in a hotel for about 6 weeks).

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00abuse

These are great links, thank you.

One thing we have been able to find out so far is that there is no partial move/store option.

They will either pay to move our stuff or to store our stuff...but we can't move some and store others.

It's a very attractive idea to just store everything and kind of start fresh, but also there are things I would rather not go 2 years without in the kitchen. My sous vide cooker and supplies, my good pans, etc.

Also, we have a dog and three cats, so if we got a furnished place we worry that our cats would tear up the furniture and we would get in trouble (owe lots of money).

On the other hand we have something like 4 couches and it doesn't make sense to move that many and I do not believe it would all fit in a 40 foot container anyway. So we will def. have to sell some stuff off.

We are still waiting for the 'official details' and that will tell us a lot more about our decision, but my main concerns of safety and lifestyle I for sure feel more comfortable with after talking to some of you on here!

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00abuse

In my experience I've never come across a situation where an employer for a temporary assignment wasn't prepared to allow a partial shipment and some storage. If nothing else the economics would suggest having you take the smallest shipment and then storing the rest. The cost of that container is going to be at least $10,000 and probably a lot more in each direction. A storage unit in the US for the duration of the assignment - $2,500?

I've seen too many people get mentally committed to a move before seeing the package from HR and they thereafter live to regret it. That's not just a Colombian issue it applies to any relocation. Short term assignments (like this) can be exciting but they can also be very disruptive. On the assignment you'll likely be spending time in some temporary accommodation prior to your furniture arriving and two or three months before the end of the assignment you'll be working on the repatriation arrangements. The core settled part of a two year assignment is probably 18 months or less.

The idea that your husband's employer needs you to sell things to fit your life into a 40' container for a two year assignment makes no sense at all.

On the safety and lifestyle issues with Bogota (and again any location) those problems aren't removed until you've seen the package. In reality given the right package just about any location can work - though having once (after several beers) been offered a posting in Lagos it was amazing how quickly I sobered up to politely say 'no'.

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With all your pets will your company more your pets also. Two years is a short period of time. I would store your things in the USA. I would pay extra to bing as much as you can in your suitcases. You are allowed two suitcases plus a carry on for each person.

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00abuse

http://banshai.com/bogota-bus/
As much has been said about the bus system in Bogota if you are going to be in Bogota for two years you will take the bus from time to time I would try not going on the bus or Transmilenio early AM or late PM after 4pm. I have found using the Transmilenio mid-day is the best. Know where you are going and take short trips till you get use to it. Yes do not take out your cell phone while waiting or riding the bus. Do not carry CC or passport. I would just carry cash just what you need for the trip. I am sure you have been in the shade part of Huston TX and would be heads up of where you are at and know who is around you. Becareful and you must just have fun while here in Colombia.

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@testolas - REALLY?!?!

I use the transit system (MIO) in Cali day and night. Never ever give a thought to security. It's the safest place in Cali at might, IMHO.

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00abuse

I have also travel in Cali just needs to be heads up when traveling on any bus system in Colombia it is better be safe then sorry. Never been robbed in Colombia. Knock on wood.

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00abuse

http://www.mycolombianrecipes.com This will help you get into the cooking area of Colombia. The meat in Colombia tend to be more tougher and free range. If you don't have one already I would invest in a pressure cooker. The beef in Columbia is not the same as in TX just a heads up. They butcher their meats differently. You will learn to cook Sancocho de Pollo. Try to cook fresh as much as you can and you will find that your meals will be more heathy for you and you family in Colombia.

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00abuse

Awesome! I love cooking! Thank you for the link!

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00abuse

Yeah, what's the dealio with the tough cuts of beef in Colombia? I mean, I know it's because the meats they use are very lean, like a round steak sort of meat. But what they call lomo (loin) is tough, too. Loin should be the most tender part of the cow.

I would walk around the grocery store and think, "Man, what I would do to buy some nice, tender, marbled ribeye." But it's all very tough, lean meat with no marbling.

So, what's the reason? Argentina and Brazil are renowned for their beef. What gives with Colombian beef? Do they sell all their nice cuts overseas?

I noticed that the cows in Colombia are skinny looking compared to the U.S. cows. I don't know.

I can only imagine that the normal Colombian goes a lifetime without experiencing a great, tender steak. Que pena.

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00abuse

Look o the bright side: red meat like beef is bad for the body and bad for the environment. Nobody loves a burger or steak or pot roast more than I do but I love chicken too and it is cheaper and healthier. So cook your beef in a slow-cooker and BBQ your chicken on the top rack, in a slotted pan. Finish on the grill with sauce. And there you have it!

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00abuse

Thats why all my family members have pressure cookers. A sous vide would be good to have ,to break down the connective tissues of the beef. Colombia does not age their beef.

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00abuse

What a fantastic thread the OP has started!

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00abuse

Look o the bright side: red meat like beef is bad for the body and bad for the environment.
==============================

Well beer, cigarettes and women have never done me any good either. But I'm only here for 70 or 80 years if I'm lucky. I may as well eat juicy steaks, drink, smoke, and be as merry as I can before I kick off.

And in between my bouts of debauchery, I try to see cool stuff.

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10abuse

Some of this has probably been covered.

Security- Your most likely risk will be from scams. I doubt if you'll be roaming around the rougher neighborhoods at night, or spending time in the bars in those areas. If you're living in the north, your worries will be less than in Houston.

Kids- In addition to what's already been stated, Bogota has lots of galleries and museums. Plenty of interesting learning opportunities and admission is cheap.

Transportation- I've seen lots of warnings against using the bus, but I had no problems at all with the Transmilenio. Except trying to use it during peak times. It's like packing 3 cans of sardines into 1 can. During off peak it's a cheap and safe (my experience) way to get around. You can switch buses as often as you want for the one low fare, provided you don't leave the station. You'll also get into the habit of walking more (or bicycling). There are plenty of bike/walking trails throughout the city.

Ciclovia- Every Sunday morning many of the major streets are closed to vehicle traffic for Ciclovia. It's a citywide initiative to encourage exercise. You will see lots of people biking, walking, jogging, rollerblading, etc. Booths selling water and juice are set up along the major routes. Not a bad way to spend the morning.

Climate- Bogota is 8500 feet above sea level. You'll be tired for a few days while you adjust. There are benefits. Humidity is low and temperatures are mostly comfortable. Nighttime lows in the mid to low 40s, daytime highs in the mid 70s. A/C isn't needed, and heating is rarely needed. You'll probably end up wearing long sleeves often, or carry a light jacket.

Another altitude benefit, almost no bugs. Most places have large, open areas. You can eat outside without being swarmed by flies or mosquitoes.

Being close to the equator, sunrise and sunset don't vary much, 6 am and 6 pm, year round. No daylight savings time. It gets dark quick, no long twilight.

Parks- parks are everywhere. Some are very small, others are quite large. Some have exercise equipment, playground equipment or basketball courts, others just paved paths and benches. In most parks you'll see dogwatchers. Some with 20 or more dogs. They keep the dogs in the park while the owners are at work.

Coming from Houston, other than the language, the weather will be the biggest adjustment.

Go native with the cooking. Colombian food is great. If you get homesick stop in La Hamburgesa, or Crepes y Waffles.

Restaurant service will take getting used to. Your server will take your order and deliver your food. If you need anything, you'll have to get their attention. They're being polite, instead of interrupting every 5 minutes and trying to rush you put. It will seem like bad service, until you get in the habit of flagging down a server.

Checks all include a 10% propina (tip). The bill explains (in Spanish) that the tip is optional.

English is rarely spoken or known, but some places have an English menu.

Good luck with everything.

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10abuse

Thanks for the reply @Jaybee315!

All of this sounds great to us.

As far as the weather, we are looking forward to cooler temps. The heat in Houston is murder.

I would love to be able to learn to cook Colombian good while I'm there. Cooking is a passion of mine and we do believe we are going to bring our household goods, especially all of my kitchen type things that I would be uncomfortable cooking without.

Are there opportunities to go to classes to learn how to use the local food and local recipes?

You had me at 'less bugs'.....OMG....yes please!

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HI there again here is a great sight for Colombia food. http://www.mycolombianrecipes.com
Dont forget to bring your spices. There are limited spices in Colombia not what you are use to in the states. I always bring back a stick of salmi when I return to Colombia which is very high in cost there. They love their soups and stews. You will love Colombia.

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00abuse

Yes. I agree. Furniture and home goods are fine here. Even towels are great, but sheets and bed covers are best brought from the US. And you will want blankets. It's chilly at night. :)

Do take your dog as carry on. Try very hard not to ship him/her.

Check out the far north of BTA. Chia is too far but the area known as "Guaymaral" and its neighborhoods have large, secure homes with yards and is very close to the best schools in Bogota.

Uber is always good. I take taxis on the street by myself but only in certain sectors. Where I live has a "ruta privada" bus that takes the residents to certain stops. Very handy.

There's some very nice areas near Rosales, Chicó, Usaquen, Guaymaral, and La Floresta.

I'd say bring rain boots and a light waterproof jacket. Bogota's rainy season is currently in full swing through December. :)

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Aristas has the best furniture in Bogota honestly, but there is a furniture district you can also visit that is nice and reasonable from what I hear. It's called 12 de Octubre. Just a heads up, the furniture fashion in Colombia is predominantly very modern. Think Danish design. I love this.

There's a Sam's Club/Costco here called PriceSmart. Go to the one in Chia. Not as busy as the other one in the south. Easy in and out and lots of American products and the best bargains on food (including local products), toilet paper etc. You can find smoked salmon here, lunch meat is cheaper here, but also locally sourced meats and veggies. The toilet paper is just fine in Colombia. Familia is a lot like Charmin.

Make a trip to the Plaza de Mercado Paloquemao. The gigantic farmers market in BTA. It's awesome.

Bring cellphone charging banks. If you're not going to have a car for awhile, you need to have cell battery back up. DO BRING YOUR CELL PHONES.

If you buy new stuff for the trip or ship new stuff, take out of original boxes and take off tags. We've had stuff taxed by the DIAN because it appeared we were importing. Whatever. We weren't.

Be prepared for paperwork and any Colombian government process to take a million times longer. Be prepared for things in general to take much longer to get done. This city can be exhausting. Be prepared to take a little time on finding good things you like. I personally get tired of all the carbohydrates in the "Corriente" style everyday Colombian meal. The good news is that you can find so many amazing fresh fruits and veggies. It's heaven.

I don't like to do my grocery shopping at Exito or really even Carulla. I find it expensive by Colombian standards and not as fun and fresh and varied as going to a plaza mercado (farmers market like place). That being said many people here like Surtifruver for grocery stuff. However Exito and Carulla have good cheeses and such.

My favorite: A DOMICILIO
YES. You can have almost anything delivered to your door. Fresh meat, fruits, veggies, bread, take out etc. you just have to find your meat, veggie, and fruit folks that deliver to your area of town. Just go to the mercados, ask neighbors, and call around! A domicilio will help you save so much time. Also lacteos (milk products) can be delivered. Yogurt etc.

Toilet seats. Don't be shocked to go into a public restroom and find them lacking. It's just a "Colombianada"

Tugó is the local Ikea. Just FYI.

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00abuse

Lots of great info on this thread.....looks like it will go on forever, not criticizing...but it is one of the longer threads I've seen on this site. Keep up the good work, guys.

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00abuse

We are still waiting for the details and in the meantime you all have been super helpful in my research! Thank you!!! I will be sure to let everybody know if we do end up making the move! I'm positive I will reference this thread often if/when we transfer to Colombia. Thank you!

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00abuse

If your move does not happen, I think that you have learned enough on this thread to make Colombia your next vacation destination!

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10abuse

A friend & I just dined at San Carbon, and her loma was tough, and my beef
was real chewy. But I understand that on their menu' they have a filet(didn't see it that night) ...anyone on this site ever had it ? The place has a great atmosphere, but I just need a tender piece of meat. The Aguila Light was cold & good ! Good time there, with the live music vibe.

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00abuse

The way to guarantee a tender piece of beef in Colombia is to make sure it has been in a pressure cooker a couple of hours before anything else, that. Is in Bogota.. Or I have heard Andres carne de res in Chia has good, but pricy meat

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00abuse

I know that in Colombia has leaner beef. I was wondering has anyone try to dry age beef at home to get a more tender meat?

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00abuse

I know that in Colombia has leaner beef. I was wondering has anyone try to dry age beef at home to get a more tender meat?

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00abuse

Shinedalgarn:

What's the latest?

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00abuse

Thanks for asking mtbe....I just saw this!

We currently have received the official assignment letter, but the terms are not 100 percent settled.

I would say there is about a 90 percent chance we will be moving within the next 90 days.

My husband's position will be in Cota, and his company will provide a shuttle for him from either Chia or Bogota.

We've spoken to people that live in Chia and also in the Chico area of Bogota and they both seem to have their advantages.

My husband is very excited about the idea of not needing a car, my daughters and I play roller derby, and we like rock climbing gyms...all things which make us lean more towards living in the city.

The houses in Chia though are large and beautiful, and I have made a friend that lives there so that would make it nice. Also a nice yard for my dog.

Just from my research the areas that look good for us in Bogota are Chico, Rosales, etc...I'm very curious how Usaquen would be for us. Also, I never hear about Suba, I'm wondering why, it looks like some nice places are there.

We are going to try to come down in a bit for a few days to see for ourselves.

We also are meeting next week with a tax adviser so we will understand that impact better. I work from home as a programmer and would hopefully be able to continue doing that when we move. I have a request in to our HR department to see if they will allow it. I do not go in to the office now and haven't seen many of my team member but maybe twice in over a decade. We have not had anybody move to a different country before. I realize that I will be double taxed, but still my income would be a huge boon to our household. We just want to make sure we really understand the taxes.

The two schools that I am most interested in for my daughters are:
Colegio Nueva Granada and
Colegio Gran Bretaña

We have heard good things about both, but where we live will have an impact there. The one person who I have spoken with whose child goes to CGB, really loves it. I prefer the school schedule of CNG though.

The company pays for our things to be moved, so we will be doing that.

The input and advice on this thread has been absolutely invaluable in this process and I appreciate every single person who took the time to respond!!!!

We are VERY excited to learn more about Colombia and meet the people there!

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00abuse

One of my step-sons lives in Usaquen. It's a nice neighborhood that would be on my list if I were moving to Bogota.

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00abuse

DEFINITELY Bogota! :D

Many thanks to all the help and excellent advice! We moved here about a month ago and so far are really enjoying it!

We have been staying in an airbnb, but move in to our permanent apartment next week and we are very excited!

It's a good thing we walk so much in the city because I have a strange addiction to arequipe!

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00abuse

Bienvenidos a Colombia !
Buena Suerte.

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00abuse