Rentals in Cali are less than Medellín, as is the cost of living. You can get an idea from this:

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Colombia&country2=Colombia&city1=Cali&city2=Medellin&tracking=getDispatchComparison

Also do an internet search for 'colombia apartamentos cali' and then 'colombia apartamentos medellin' and you can get an idea.

Here is an article on taxation in Colombia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Colombia

Taxation on income is based on marginal rates. You are considered a tax resident in Colombia if you spend 183 days or more in-country in any 365 day period, and can be taxed on your worldwide earnings.

Right now earnings above 1400 UVT are taxed at 19%, above 1700 UVT at 28%, above 4100 UVT at 33% where for 2016 1 UVT = 29,753 COP.

So with today's rate the 19% rate is reached at $1186 USD/month, the 28% rate at $1440 USD/month, and the 33% rate at $3472 USD/month.

There is an ongoing reforma tributaria which may likely raise the marginal rates as well as reaching down lower to expand the tax base. They are floating the desire to tax people with as little income as about $1.5M COP/month, whereas now you must make about $3.5M COP/month to begin to be taxed on income.

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I have family in Cali as far as weather it is hot there. So if you don't mine the warm weather then you should be ok. The rent in Cali is much lower the Medellin I think about 25% to 30% lower. That is just what I have found. I still like Medellin more then Cali. For the weather and style. Shopping better and wider selections. Just my personal apportion.

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Whoanellie- Thank you for your response to my Cali questions. I think I am getting the drift of the tax question, but I must confess I don't know the meaning of " UVT ". My Social Security will be about $ 1,139 US, so I'm trying to figure if that will taxed. If so , I could be screwed for sure. So thanks for your feedback.

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Thanks for your response Testolas. I have read lots of things that confirm your observations . My first choice would be Medellin , so I guess I will have to visit both to make a comparison. Thanks again.

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On the other hand my wife and family are from Manizales so we purchase a home in Manizales. I do love Medellin and visit there often on vacation and we also visit Cali also. If your lady is in Cali you might just want to visit Cali for a while and see if she is open to move to Medellin.

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1firebird -

Gee, I go out for drinks with friends and everyone answers my question. ;)

I think you've gotten pretty good info here. I'm not sure that Cali is quite that much cheaper than Medellin but it is cheaper.

It's hot, for sure. I love the weather here.

Cali is a great city but as I would advise anyone about any place, why don't you visit before you decide to up and move here?

Feel free to shoot me a private msg if I can help you with anything specific.

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"My Social Security will be about $ 1,139 US, so I'm trying to figure if that will taxed."

It's possible with the tax reform (reforma tributaria) that incomes below 1400 UVT/month (about $1186 USD/month) will start to be taxed in the future but it's not the case now.

So right now you'd have zero tax liability - up to 1400 UVT is 0% tax. Since for 2016 1 UVT = $29,753 COP, 1400 UVT is about $1186 USD. So you are below the income tax threshhold. Above about $1186 USD/month you hit the 19% marginal rate.

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Wow! Had no idea about the tax on SS. Sure would prevent a lot of us from retirement there.

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Hola, WhoaNellie - Thanks for your response to my questions. I wrote you back yesterday but the message would not go through for some reason. Anyway, I think you answered my question about taxes ( although I don't know what UVT stands for). So it sounds like possible bad news for those of us trying to eek by on Social Security. That's a real disappointment. As far as rental prices for one bedroom or studio apartments, I was hoping Timllowe, our great wizard, might give me an idea of rent prices - in dollars- for safe neighborhoods. Alas , he is in pursuit of the magic golden beverage in The Holy Grail! For the good of expat mankind, I might add. So thanks for your response, WhoaNellie, and stay safe.

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" Medellín (again, very unlike Panama) is not a tax haven, and taxes are high. Living here, your tax burden could increase, depending on your nationality, where you hold legal residency, and where your income comes from. The country even imposes a wealth tax (after five years of residency). Note, though, that moving to Colombia with only retirement income should be a tax-neutral event. Colombia, like most countries, doesn’t tax foreign retirement income."

https://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/comparison/comparing-panama-and-colombia-as-top-live-retire-and-invest-overseas-choices.html

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" Colombia, like most countries, doesn’t tax foreign retirement income."

I note that that assertion in the article is not backed up by any cite or source.

That foreign retirement income or pension is not taxed would not seem to be the case according to DIAN (the Colombian tax agency) and other sources.

Here on this page they specifically address that issue:

http://www.gerencie.com/tratamiento-de-la-pension-extranjera-de-residentes-en-colombia.html

Colombian pensions are taxed only on that portion which exceeds 1000 UVT monthly. They then go on to say that in spite of a rule which makes no distinction between foreign or Colombian pensions, DIAN has made clear (via cited oficio 58213 of 2014) that foreign pensions will be taxed in their entirety:

"Ahora bien, una vez determinada la residencia lo importante es determinar la naturaleza del ingreso, es decir si se trata de una pensión originada en el extranjero (pensión del exterior) o una pensión de origen Colombiano.

Inicialmente el numeral 5 del artículo 206 del estatuto tributario señala que las pensiones de jubilación, invalidez, vejez, de sobrevivientes y sobre Riesgos Profesionales, (sic). A partir del 1 de Enero de 1998 estarán gravadas sólo en la parte del pago mensual que exceda de 1.000 UVT.

Dicha norma no hace distinción alguna sobre si la pensión es extranjera o colombiana. Sin embargo, la DIAN mediante oficio 58213 de 2014 deja claro que en el caso de las pensiones extranjeras, las mismas se encuentran gravadas en su totalidad en Colombia."

This info is confirmed by this article in Medellín Living:

http://medellinliving.com/filing-colombia-income-taxes/

Nevertheless to be sure, consult a tax professional in Colombia - you can still find contradictory information on the web, even from DIAN themselves. It used to be that only after 5 years' residence would any tax kick in for foreigners.

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Agree with WN that foreign pensions aren't treated differently to any other foreign income - that they are taxable. Note pensions (like SSI) and retirement accounts (say 401ks) may, or may not have similar treatment under Colombian tax.

Anyone thinking about moving to Colombia in 2017 should consider deferring any tax advice until at least December by which time what tax changes are coming should be clearer.

The expectation should not be for more lax taxation, but the reverse. Colombia needs revenue and the tax changes may be significant. Santos will struggle to get the changes through, but the need for more money is getting more urgent.

Perversely as foreigners we may suffer increased taxes whether or not the tax package goes through. If the tax package doesn't pass (or is considered not to be raising enough money) then Colombia might well lose its' investment Grade status. That would almost certainly lead to a weakening of the peso which in turn would increase in Peso terms any income or assets abroad and hence more Colombian tax would be payable.

The only positive scenario from a tax point of view would be a much higher oil price. That would reduce the need for more taxes and would strengthen the peso but would conversely reduce the spending power of ex pats in Colombia.

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I still can figure how taxing the hell out of foreigners and returning nationals will expand the tax base?

If anything it's a deterrent and will discourage investment that makes the economy grow.

Similar to the tired arguments between Republicans and Dems in the U.S.

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From some of the proposals I've seen the Colombians are proposing bringing into the tax system people who earn as little as COP 1.5 million a month (say $500).

Politically, if they do that what would be the argument for not taxing foreigners? In the end - at least from my taxes - I'm not treated any differently to a local.

The bottom line truth is that Colombia has to raise more tax money or there will be some pretty significant impacts. The hole created by the reduction in receipts from oil has created a big problem. Just about everyone (bar those at the very bottom of the income pile) are going to be paying more taxes going forward, locals and foreigners alike. From the Governments point of view selling the new package to their own people is an issue. The impact on ex-pats won't be.

Living here is cheap for an expat, property prices are reasonable and the ability to get a visa to live here permanently (think of the converse of a Colombia wanting to live in the States) is easy to obtain.

Tax is a negative - and others might argue that security might be as well.

Generally though for most wealthy people (which in many cases includes expats here) there are enough loopholes and allowances in the Colombian system to make the overall issue of taxes less of a problem that you'd think.

I just paid my 'additional' taxes over and above my US ones for 2015 - it was a small amount. 2016 will be the same - and if the 2017 proposals (the ones are now under discussion now) are approved it's again no big deal.

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Economic migrants will balance the tax impacts vs the cost of living, climate, and other lifestyle factors and compare against such places as Panama. I would say Colombia still has a bit of leeway before slipping behind.

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@SunsetSteve,

I think panama is hard to take over Colombia because it's so small, climate is hot and does not offer the buffet of regions that Colombia has.

Too bad Colombia does not follow Panama and other tax friendly countries example.

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@PL,

Agree, in the end, the U.S. and Colombian tax codes will allow enough wiggle room to make taxes an issue surpassed by other benefits.

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