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Filandia vs Armenia redux

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augieman
  2/24/2017 07:18 EST

Forgot one major factor to add yo the mix.
Absence of mosquitos and those other nasty ankle biters ...chiggers? No see ums,? Whatever they are called their name should be changed to the devil.
Armenia has muchos; Filandia none??
I would rather take my chances with a 25 minute ride in a medical emergency then suffer every day and night from those blood suckers.
Filandia is taking the lead.....

Jaybee315
  2/24/2017 08:22 EST

The advantages of altitude.

Kee
  2/24/2017 09:09 EST

I've never lived in a place with fewer mosquitoes than Armenia, but they do exist. Once I was playing tennis at Bolo Club and half a dozen guys were on the hills above cutting grass. Every mosquito in the vicinity descending upon me, but I'm a mosquito magnet.

Still, crossing off Armenia because of mosquitoes is like leaving Pensacola Florida because it snows too much.

meincolombia
  2/24/2017 10:21 EST

Colombians call them moscas, I call them ankle biters, common fly that hangs around the coffee farms at an altitude less than 2,000 meters. Filandia doesn´t have as many of them because there aren´t any coffee farms. The only defense is to wear long pants or use bug spray. If they bite you rinsing with water takes the sting away.


Filandia is at least 45 minutes from downtown Armenia and the highway is not all that smooth once you get off the toll road. But the highway continuing from Filandia to Quimbaya is excellent, especially good for bike riding.

Filandia is a tiny little rural town of a few hundred people with a charming park and a hostel or two, but almost zero options for housing. We looked for two days and found zip.

Armenia has closer suburbs that are charming, such as Le Tebaida, Circasia and Quimbaya. In the north part of Armenia are several nice barrios.

I´ve visted Armenia several times and the surrounding burbs, and never noticed any extraordinary mosquito activity. But, I´ve traveled all over rural Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont in the spring and can attest that is probably the mosquito capital of the world, except for south Florida of course :)

Compared to those mosquito infested states Colombia is smooth sailing, at least in the coffee region. Maybe along the coast or in los llanos or amazonas there is a mosquito problem, but don´t think so in the coffee region.

augieman
  2/24/2017 13:21 EST

I'M also a mosquito magnet.
Agree they are not swarming around,but they are there.
I'M a walker and 15 minutes they are on me.
Notice how locals wear pegged pants tight around the ankles? And long sleeved shirts?
And the streets are littered with mosquito breeding grounds.,i'm sure not the case at the courts.
They even got into my hotel room.
Staff acknowledged this problem.saying we get bit too.
Their solution? Spray.
More to the point I have had my ankles swollen and sore and itchy.even bleeding.
Not from mosquitos,but from the much worse little bloid suckers.They are EVERYWHERE.
And as to Pensacola Florida, you will never find me there or anywhere in Florida for that matter.Too many mosquitos and other numerous insects.
I'll take the snow.They dont do well in snow.

SunsetSteve
  2/24/2017 15:21 EST

Re Meincolombia's comments, I beg to differ on a few points:

- Filandia population is over 13,000, with 50% being within the pueblo and the rest in the surrounding countryside.

- Because of the significant tourist draw, Filandia is blessed with abundant cafes and restaurants of a superior nature and appeal. And 2 hospitals, vet clinics and an orthodontist.

- It took us exactly 25 minutes to drive from Filandia to Armenia - I made a point of timing the drive.

- Filandia Road is concrete with no potholes. For a rural road it is in superior condition - especially in a well-suspended vehicle that doesn't rattle over every uneven surface.

- Neither Circasia not Quimbaya can be described as "charming" by any measure when compared to Filandia.

- Rental housing will take a lot more effort than in the city, but there certainly are a lot of appealing properties there and thereabouts.

augieman
  2/24/2017 17:40 EST

Steve,
You nailed it again !
In complete agreement.
As you say,housing is a major issue.

meincolombia
  2/24/2017 18:30 EST

I can walk from one side of Filandia to the other in 10 minutes side to side and 15 minutes length to length. If there are 13,000 people living in that dinky little burb I´ll eat my hat. Maybe 1300 at the most. The bus takes exactly 45 minutes. I´ve ridden it four times both ways. Rentals just aren´t there. In two days of walking the streets we found there was exactly one apartment for rent in the whole burb, we walked every street and inquired at every tienda. Plus there was one decrepit casa finca about 5 miles out of town next to a pig farm. Filandia has a charming little park and some decent Colombian restaurants. Other than that it has nothing to offer. The hospital are just clinics with overnight beds. Most patients with serious problems are taken to Armenia for treatment.

SunsetSteve
  2/24/2017 18:34 EST

Filandia Population (2008)
• Municipality and town 13,700
• Urban 6,729
• Rural 6,341

Wikipedia

SunsetSteve
  2/24/2017 18:36 EST

I doubt they send patients to Armenia by the milk-run bus.

meincolombia
  2/24/2017 18:44 EST

In Colombia the term municipality is similar to the American word county. There is no Urban population in Filandia, it´s a pueblo.
Filandia is 10 blocks wide and 15 blocks long. I´ve walked every one of them. There might be 10 houses per block and there are no towers. Each house probably has 5 people or less. Saying there are more than 1000 residents living inside the 10x15 blocks of downtown Filandia is a big stretch. Filandia is a sweet little pueblito, for sure. We can all agree on that. But, going there to live is not going to be easy, and being happy after you get there isn´t going to be easy either. We couldn't find any rentals and everyone we asked shook there head and said its impossible to find in Filandia. Same story for houses for sale. There aren´t any. Occasionally a finca outside town, but not often.

meincolombia
  2/24/2017 18:46 EST

I´m really not trying to be argumentative, just realistic. Sorry to burst your bubble.

meincolombia
  2/24/2017 18:52 EST

We wanted to live in Filandia, too, and we looked hard and talked to a lot of people. I speak Spanish and I have a Colombian wife from Pereira to help me. We lived next door in Pereira at the time and had easy cell phone access to lots of shop owners and residents in Filandia, and we came up empty handed. That´s all I´m saying, not trying to be argumentative, just real.

SunsetSteve
  2/24/2017 19:02 EST

I appreciate your perspective Meincolombia. But you continue to mis-state the pueblo population in the face of published official stats. The Filandia "County" including urban is 13,000. That is a fact as of 2008. Whether you believe it or not, the "urban" population is over 6,000., urban obviousy meaning within the pueblo, according to the official numbers and despite your informal impressions. I do not make numbers up when posting info.

My driver took me to visit his friend who owns a small finca on the outskirts of Filandia, down the hill. A Viet Vet from Texas. He has owned there for three years and rented five different places in the Armenia/Filandia are for a period of 7 years prior to that. My driver had assisted him in finding a variety of rentals from time to time and was upbeat about helping me find a place, given a reasonable period of time to search.

WhoaNellie
  2/24/2017 19:31 EST

You may find this article informative, and also the comments, regarding Filandia:

http://www.cronicadelquindio.com/noticia-completa-titulo-quines_vienen_a_vivir_a_filandia_y_por_qu-seccion-filandia-nota-102831.htm

meincolombia
  2/24/2017 20:25 EST

I agree that wiki says what it says, but it is impossible for that many people to live in Filandia within the confines of the village. Do you agree that Filandia is 10 blocks wide and 15 blocks long? You can check that on Google Maps. Do you also agree that each block has from 2 or 3 up to as many as 10 houses? and there aren´t any houses taller than 2 story? Do you agree there are probably average 5 or less people per house? If you agree with these facts, then how in the world can you possibly fit 6,000 people into that little piece of real estate? Maybe as many as a 1000 could fit in a 10 block by 15 block one and two story residential area, but, come on, there just isn´t room for 6,000 people, regardless of what wiki says. There just isn´t any there there. Its just a tiny little pueblo that you can walk through in 10 minutes. You can believe wiki, I used to, but when I started looking at actual conditions on the ground in these pueblos over the half decade that I´ve lived here I see where there are vast descrepancies between what wiki says the population is and what the actual population within that pueblo is. Sorry, but I would rather take my first hand, boots on the ground experience over Wiki´s figures anytime. I don´t know how they come up with their figures, but I do know that is is just not possible to fit 6,000 people in that tiny little village.

cccmedia
  2/24/2017 20:32 EST

Dear Expats,

Filandia is fantastic.

It has a population of 1.3 million. And that's just the Urban Population.

It has a dozen hospitals, five of which are among the top 20 hospitals in South America.

The rental market is yuuuge. There are lots of top condos and penthouses with rooftop swimming pools and jacuzzis.

You can make it from Filandia to the north end of Armenia in fifteen minutes with the right driver.

The casinos on the main square need an upgrade. I will be bringing in a fantastic casino with the most fabulous showgirls you can imagine .. and $3 all-u-can-eat-buffets.

Love,
Donald J. Trump

meincolombia
  2/24/2017 20:33 EST

in a separate thread there is a list of things found disagreeable about Colombia and Colombians.
One of the things that should add to that list is that Colombians will tell you exactly what you want to hear, then disappear. A taxi driver will tell you absolutely, positively he can find you an apartment or house to rent or buy. Then you never hear from him again. Happens so often I´ve just grown to expect it. Sure, no problem, you can get just what you need according to these guys, then never hear from them again.
Another thing to add to that list is the way they give directions. They never ever admit they don´t have a clue where it is. They just point with great authority and say go there and turn left, or right, and you´ll find it, no problem. Ask three people the same question and you´ll get three different answers, all spoken with great authority and absolute confidence.

Jaybee315
  2/24/2017 20:38 EST

I'm speaking from ignorance here. I've never been to Filandia. However, after taking a quick Google Street view tour, the census figure of roughly 6,000 looks reasonable.

As you're well aware, the space that would be taken up by one house in a small US town, contains from 4 to 20 houses, townhouses and/or apartments in a Colombian pueblo. Yards, which in the US are .25 acre (small town) and up, are almost nonexistent. What would be a town of 500 in the US will have a much higher population in Colombia.

In addition, as a Catholic country, with minimal birth control use, family size is, on the average, larger, 2.58 US vs. 3.90 Colombia.

Which is a lot of trouble to say population density is higher in Colombian towns and cities.

However, I expect it to be difficult to find a place to rent, especially if you're in a hurry. Take a few weeks, talk to the people, visit the businesses, smile and be friendly, and non-existent rentals have a habit of popping up.

SunsetSteve
  2/25/2017 07:32 EST

@Nellie - thanks for the very timely link! Perhaps a bit rosy but encouraging, and published only yesterday.

@Meincol: - I live on the outskirts of a village of approximately 1,200 full time residents. It is minuscule compared to Filandia, with one grocery store, one bank. one pharmacy, 2 restaurants and a cafe. I know what a town of 1,200 looks and feels like, and Filandia is not it.

The streets in Filandia emanating out from the square are lined with shops and services of every kind - unlike Selanto, for example, where every shop is a craft kiosk taregetting tourists. These shops seem to be catering to and supported by a significant resident population.

Boquete, Panama is a small town, easily walkable, yet its population is around 20,000 - a number which came to me as a surprise. And even though there are plenty of rental opportunities for expats in and around Boquete, it takes several months of living there and working the ground to find the right place to settle at the right price point. Typically this can best be accomplished in the late spring when the snowbirds fly, leaving empty nests. This just to say that it will always be more challenging to find a rental property in a small town than in a city with thousands of apartments changing hands constantly.

augieman
  2/25/2017 11:35 EST

@meincolombia.
Yes there are misquitoes and mosca the little flies with big bite.
But i refer to sancuros phonetic spelling.these bastards bite worst of all.must wash ankles to mitigate the sting itch and swrlling.they ate invidible and far worse than the otherd.

augieman
  2/25/2017 11:36 EST

Fat fingers this am after a night in cali

Jaybee315
  2/25/2017 11:38 EST

Here are your numbers, meincolombia:

10 X 15 blocks is 150 blocks

From 2 to 10 houses/block say an average of 6/block = 900 houses

5 people/house = 4500

Now, the first problem is the number of houses. A Colombian house, within a community, is often more than 1 house. A 3 story house is often 3 houses, or 6 to 12 apartments. Most businesses, in buildings of more than 1 story, are underneath apartments. A quick survey shows between 10 and 20 habitations per block, around the town square. Although the blocks aren't all uniform, 6 per block seems quite low. A US small town usually has at least 6 houses/block and every house has a yard.

The next problem is the number of people per habitation. You say an average of 5 or less and then call it a fact. The first part is probably correct, the second is definitely wrong.

Facts are tricky little buggers. Lots of people claim things are "facts", when they are just a guess.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you did not canvas the entire town, verifying the total number of single family and multifamily dwellings, collect the names of everyone living in those dwellings and then calculate the average residents/dwelling. Therefore let's call your <5 number a guess, instead of a fact.

Less than 5 is an excellent guess. Most of the dwellings probably have from 1 to 4 residents, although the average should be around 3. Colombians tend to live with family until after marriage. This is even more prevalent in pueblos than in the cities. This means less homes with 1 resident and more with 4.

Colombian houses also frequently have 3 generations living in the house. So 5 per house is a reasonable guess, for actual houses.

Now to recalculate. We'll assume your numbers for the edge of town, and more realistic numbers for the center.

Call the edge of town a 2 block wide perimeter. That's 92 blocks out of 150. With 6 houses/block and 5 people/house thats 2760 residents.

The remaining 58 blocks are the center of town. Figure 15 dwellings/block, 3 residents/dwelling and that's 2610 more. That gives a very rough guess of 5370 population, which is much closer to the census figures than your estimate.

Maybe I'll take time for a visit in May, just to get a better impression.

Andresen
  2/25/2017 13:11 EST

I call them no-see-ums (sp?). I learned to respect them after spending some time in a finca outside Medellin. You go outside for a few minutes. You don't see them, you don't hear them, you don't feel them but a couple hours later you notice bite marks on your ankles, your arms, or elsewhere. Calamine lotion helps a little but it takes days for the bites/itching to go away. I hate the little buggers!

augieman
  2/25/2017 18:41 EST

Andresen
I am in sabaneta three blocks
From exito.
Are you near.
Lets meet for a drink/coffee.
I am very impressed with sabaneta..

Andresen
  2/25/2017 19:49 EST

Angie. Sorry, but I'm in Envigado.

Andresen
  2/25/2017 20:08 EST

Augie. I could meet you in Parque Envigado tomorrow. You choose the time. I'll give you the exact location.

meincolombia
  2/25/2017 20:26 EST

Comparing a tiny Colombian pueblito to an American town is silly. Going in that direction, I lived in a 7500 population town, it had three huge supermarkets, Walmart Super Center, Lowe´s Super Center, Home Depot Super Center, two large family lumber yards, a dozen fast food joints on the two highways leading in and out of town, two chinese restaurants, an Indian restaurant, at least a dozen family style restaurants and at least half a dozen gourmet restaurants, two coffee roasters and half a dozen gas station minimarts.
Filandia, supposedly with a 6,000 population has several small tiendas about the size of a one car garage and one supermarket about the size of a four car garage, several small restaurants, a couple coffee bars, a casino with 6 slot machines and a disco with one disco ball.
there are no apartment buildings, no three story multi family dwellings, just a bunch of single family and two family houses strung along streets that are one way only because they are too narrow for cars to meet and pass.
You guys are talking from a point of never having lived in one of these little pueblitos. After a month or two I think you will understand my comments. I´m not 100% right, but I´m damn sure not 100% wrong.
You can convince yourselves of anything you want to believe, so have at it. and good luck.

augieman
  2/25/2017 20:27 EST

How about 1100 or so?

meincolombia
  2/25/2017 20:29 EST

Yes, I agree, 1100 is a reasonable population for that dinky little town.

Andresen
  2/25/2017 20:34 EST

Sure. West side of the park at a bar called Bartellos. I'm 6 feet tall with grey hair and beard.

pocopelo
  2/25/2017 20:40 EST

There are many of us who prefer the dinky little towns. There's a store on every corner. Mom and pop are alive and well. The prices are actually cheaper than what you find in the malls in the larger cities. If you want Lowes, Home Depot etc why leave your home country in the first place? Small town Colombia is food for the soul. Materialism/rat race is obviously your thing. Enjoy.

augieman
  2/25/2017 21:48 EST

Ok.1100 it is .
Im 5.8 short hair .
Will wear my sport glasses with yellow side frames.
Hasta pronto.

SunsetSteve
  2/26/2017 07:33 EST

Are you going to take those glasses off after you are recognized?

SunsetSteve
  2/26/2017 07:54 EST

I can see 17 cafes and restaurants in Filandia on google maps, and that is showing only one around the parque. There are many more in fact, as anyone who has been there can attest. Not to beat a dead horse, but some comments above might leave an inaccurate impression to those readers who haven't been.

Many of those restaurants are of a very high quality. But a town located a distance off the main highway will often not benefit from big box type retail, but are closely associated with major centres that do provide those amenities. They just won't go there by bus! And the 99% local population maintain a lifestyle very different from those in an American town.

On a personal level, a main purpose of my visit was to learn whether I could find a place in Colombia where I could enjoy living. The bus to Armenia from Medellin took us through Periera. That one experience caused me to change my itinerary to avoid Pereira - I deemed it to be uninhabitable for me. On the other hand, that "dinky little town" fit me like a glove, and offers far more amenities, and is closer to a big city, than my current living arrangement.

Each to his own, eh?

Jaybee315
  2/26/2017 09:32 EST

Yes. Comparing a Colombian Pueblo to an American town is silly, which is why I said you can't compare one to the other.

However...

I grew up in a town which has had a population of 500 for nearly 200 years. Today the town has a gas/convenience store, 1 restaurant, 1 pizza place and a hair salon.

40 years ago it had 3 restaurants, 3 gas stations, including a truck stop, 2 machine shops, a mill, a hardware store, a grocery store, a bank, an elementary school, 3 hair salons and a barbershop.

60 years ago it had all of the above, plus a factory, another restaurant and a high school.

100 years ago add 2 clothing stores, a hotel and a sawmill.

Same population, most of the people from the same families, but very different. The actual town is twice the size it was in 1950, with the same population.

The big town (population 12,000) is 10 miles away. When my great grandfather was a child, trips to the big town only happened a few times per year. They left before dawn and returned well after dark. In my grandfather's day, it was still an infrequent trip, but took less than half a day. My mother made the trip once a month, even though it was 15 minutes each way. Now my brother drives there daily.

The Colombian pueblos are, in many ways, 100 years or more behind American towns. On festival days people come from miles around, dressed in their best. Market days are still a big deal. The locals keep almost 100% of their business local. They walk, instead of driving to the tienda. And the population density is higher.

What either of us think the population is doesn't matter. Colombia thought the population was 6487 when they did the census in 2005. I assume they didn't just make the number up. Note, that number was for inhabitants of the municipality. The total region population is roughly double that. I also assume that things such as taxation and spending are tied to the numbers the census produces.

For me, Filandia is too small. I have no desire to spend more than a day there. Whether the population is 1000 or 15,000, it's still not what I'm looking for. I'm guessing it's too small for you as well. However, SunsetSteve seems to like it. He seems to realize it will present some difficulties and seems willing and able to overcome those difficulties.

I wish you both the best of luck.

Andresen
  2/26/2017 09:47 EST

"Yes. Comparing a Colombian Pueblo to an American town is silly, which is why I said you can't compare one to the other. However..." The the poster proceeds to do exactly that ... compare a Colombian Pueblo to an American town. FUNNY!

SunsetSteve
  2/26/2017 11:05 EST

For those who give a damn, and are idle on a Sunday. I invite you to look on google maps for "Sharbot Lake, Central Frontenac." After over 20 years in Toronto and 8 in Ottawa. After more than 20 years in downtown Toronto and 8 in Ottawa, that is where I have lived contentedly since 2003. If you pull back from the village far enough you can gauge the distances we travel to a reasonably sized city. Our pleasures stem from the lack of traffic and the lakes and forests that surround us. Perhaps this exercise can help explain my perspective regarding Filandia as a reasonable environment to live in.

SkyMan
  2/26/2017 11:12 EST

"Appropriate housing" for expats is always a problema en los pueblos...since no gringos are there. I like larger cities for their abundance of shopping, dining, cultural events...and especially at La Navidad...aah the lights are beautiful in Medellin...a La Navidad. we all have our wants & needs, and when you find a place that checks all the boxes for you...and has a good vibe too...well=you're home.

SkyMan
  2/26/2017 11:18 EST

CCC.....Great Post ! It breaks up the disagreements that have appeared over the pueblo called Filandia. About Filandia.....what suits one, disgusts the other. That's life. To each his own...I say. It is your life, so make up your minds and live it the way you want to...end of story.
Buena Suerte !

Bobfrozen1
  2/26/2017 17:18 EST

Steve,

With all respect, if your town is so good why do you want to leave??

One has to remember a small town in Colombia or anywhere else will not be the same as where you live now.

With limited language skills everything becomes more frustrating. Tv, a chat with neighbors, shopping etc. Even more difficult in a remote place or mall town.

Many expats have great dreams of living somewhere only later to find out its not what was expected.

But eh life is an adventure!!!!

And I would wish you well.

SunsetSteve
  2/26/2017 17:39 EST

Bob - I hope those who leave their home to seek out the life of an expat in the tropics aren't doing so in order to flee an unhappy home life. I will be retiring soon and in addition to being fed up to the neck with winter weather, the inconvenience and the boredom of it, I will retire soon and when that happens my current lifestyle will be untenable. Living in a comfortable home on a lake, let alone in a city condo, will become out of reach. So if I can relocate to a good climate, in amendable surroundings, at a lifestyle cost I can afford, then I will give that serious consideration. Let's face it, the alternative - namely staying here or returning - basically involves living in a cardboard box under an overpass in Canada. So suggesting I might not adapt so should consider staying home is not real tempting. Now, I may be exaggerating a wee bit, but I venture to suggest that my past experiences and life choices indicate that my likeliehood of adapting to town life in Colombia is at least as high if not higher than my city-loving compatriots who seek the same standards they are leaving behind in America. I, on the other hand, are looking to make an upward step - an easier challenge in many respects.

I see one movie a year at best, never eat out because there are no restaurants worth going to here, absolutely deplore going to bars and listening to music or entertainment in those kinds of places, abhor spectator sports, live or on TV, do not enjoy a lot of social interaction, am sick to death of heavy traffic and associated fumes, and had to work very hard to figure out how to survive outside the concept of city life. Was finally successful in escaping it and have never looked back.

i suspect I would get along just fine,

Bobfrozen1
  2/26/2017 18:42 EST

Sounds great Steve,

Another chapter in lifes adventure.

I sincerely hope you do well!!

And as for the original poster I too hate mosquitos and have not seen one in Medellin. They are without a doubt the most dangerous creature on the earth.

Now as for where the most mosquitos are hmmmm has to be Alaska without a doubt the biggest and most blood thirsty you have ever seen.

Now in the spirit of the original post and many facts and figures as to how many people exist in the pueblo. Does anyone have a scientific formula or scientific data as to how many mosquito s per square foot there are in each of the mentioned towns.

All in fun

Bob not so frozen anymore.

meincolombia
  2/26/2017 18:59 EST

At some point I hope that Sunset Steve and I can agree on at least one item. How about Frontenac Outfitters in Syndenham, Ontario. Best Outfitter in Canada, yes?

WhoaNellie
  2/26/2017 19:07 EST

Speaking of zancudos, the flying bloodsuckers - this article from 2015 has a handy map near the bottom showing how many cases of chikungunya there were reported in Colombia, by departamento.

One can infer that the other mosquito-borne infectious diseases - malaria, dengue, God knows what else - might be roughly in the same proportion. The Quindío department seems to have hardly been affected.

I know in Cali, the zancudos never really bothered me much at all, and because of the heat mostly were present only at night.

WhoaNellie
  2/26/2017 19:08 EST

Ah yes, the link to that map...

http://www.semana.com/nacion/articulo/chikungunya-estara-en-colombia-largo-tiempo/413768-3

augieman
  2/26/2017 21:02 EST

I'm staying in sabaneta 14th floor
hi rise.mosquitos are here.
My host says this is the first year he has experienced them here.
The sancuros ate me alive in Armenia.
They are also up here in envigado and sabaneta.
Maybe its the chem trails???????
Jajaja

SunsetSteve
  2/27/2017 07:26 EST

@Meincol - haha yes we can agree on that! Are you familiar with them?

Can't yet bring myself to write jajaja - whenever I read it I picture the lower jaw moving rapidly up and down in an insane puppet laugh.

SkyMan
  2/27/2017 08:40 EST

Sunset, I believe that you are quite sincere about relocating to a warmer
environment. After living in SW Florida for seventeen(17) years...I too
abhor cold/damp/misty/snowy weather. The one thing that can make your transition to an expat life in a Latin American country is this: knowing how to speak the language, as it is necessary to be happy in Colombia. there are locales in which English is mainly spoken...such as Vilcabamba, Ec. &
Boquete, Panama....but one will miss out on the real experience of living and thriving in a Latin American country. Each one us needs certain things, to feel at home in our chosen country/city/village. Please do yourself a real, big favor and study "spoken español". You may be able to read it and write it; but un less you can speak at least a passable español...life will not be the good experience you want. Just imagine going a day, a week...without having an intelligent conversation with someone. The TV/newspapers are all en español. I have spoken fluent español since my 20's...so that enables me to fit in fairly easily. I dress like the locals & wear my soccer jersy too !(I have 3 of 'em). Latin. Please remember this.....spending 2 weeks in Colombia=you're a tourist. Try living in your chosen city/village for 6 weeks, then you'll have a pretty good feeling how you'll adapt to the local customs, shopping, dining, etc. One thing that I was taught about expatting is this: remember you are a guest in their country. I hope these comments serve you well. Buena Suerte !

meincolombia
  2/27/2017 09:15 EST

a follow up on Skymans excellent comments......
One year I lived in a pueblo in Valle de Cauca, about an hour from Cali. There were two other gringos living in that pueblo at the time. One spoke moderately fluent Spanish, the other spoke only basic. I speak what I call advanced street Spanish, a combination of formal training and street training. I learned it on the go in a half a dozen different countries and I´ve made it work well for me in Colombia.

The differences in life experiences between the three of us gringos was pretty astounding. Myself and the first guy, the moderately fluent guy, were out and about joining in town affairs, attending festivals and hooping it up with the residents, building friendships and generally enjoying life in a small pueblo.

The third guy, señor básico, stuck to himself, stayed in his house a lot, went for long walks by himself, and stayed on the sidelines at the festivals and events that he did attend. Didn´t interact at all with the natives. When he need to buy something he would point and grunt, really.

I felt sorry for him and tried to help him learn Spanish but he avoided me after that. After about six months he left, whether he went back stateside or to another pueblo or city I don´t know, but I do know he was a lonely, not very happy camper.
Morale of that story? In my opinion it is best to learn Spanish at least to the intermediate level before you come here. It will make for a much better lifestyle and a more satisfactory overall experience for you.

SkyMan
  2/27/2017 11:40 EST

Mein...thanks for the compliment ! The following is a true story. My best friend moved to Cuenca, Ecuador about 18 months ago. She had studied español & I worked with her, to teach her the basics of spoken español...some useful phrases like cuanto cuesta ?
y donde está el baño ? things like that. But after arriving in Cuenca and taking three(3) more clases de español she still could not speak it out in public(she also took multiple classes online). so she did this...spent most of her time in her condo, online surfing, etc. and went for a long walk daily(alone) & after 6 mos. returned to the U.S. Then 4 mos. later returned to Cuenca, Ec. for a second try. She is now back in the U.S. unhappy that she failed in her expat experience. By the way she is very smart, good-looking too ! Her experience is like that of many others who do not know español, or who don't learn it. And consider this...she can read & write español
but in public could not ever speak it. I give you this true story, as an example of what can happen to an expat. The above is the truth, not just my opinion. I hope this plants that "study español" seed, so be able to speak some, at least...prior to your move.

SunsetSteve
  2/27/2017 13:01 EST

I certainly take the advice to learn to converse in Spanish to heart. Te one thing about travelling alone is that you are forced to make the attempt to communicate with locals and cannot rely on a companion to take up the strain. Once my initial brain-freeze ended I found my mind was able to access more vocab and more tenses as well, bringing in at least some indication of past, future and possibility so as not to sound completely like a monosyllabic caveman. I do a lot of online study but I know from experience that none of that gels unless and until you confront conversation on the street. Unfortunately aside from live classroom lessons there is little opportunity to engage outside of actually being immersed.

Jaybee315
  2/27/2017 14:13 EST

Having the opportunity to be immersed is great, but too many people don't take advantage of the opportunity. That leaves them either chained to the expat community, if there is one, or stuck being a hermit.

If they could just get to the point of a few simple greetings and phrases. Most people, when they see you are making an effort, will be helpful.

armenia
  3/1/2017 07:04 EST

There are mosquitos in Bogota. I have encountered mosquitos in the north side of Bogota.

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