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US Marine officers drugged and robbed

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cafetero
  5/31/2017 17:28 EST

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/marine-officers-could-face-charges-223931150.html

regnatarajan
  5/31/2017 18:37 EST

I get that they weren't being saints but charging them with a conduct unbecoming? Seriously? That's just silly.

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dliss62
  6/1/2017 18:33 EST

@regnatarajan

Not that silly. The marines are in Colombia in an "official capacity" and are subject to the rules and regulations of the Embassy, which they are zealously provided upon arriving in Colombia. This is on the heels of the Secret Service scandal that got several Secret Service Agents and DEA Agents fired!

I was posted at that embassy for years and this is no joke! The marines are stupid to do this knowing the risk and the clear WARNING that they are given NOT TO DO THIS EXACT THING!

They are under diplomatic status and are not at liberty to partake in the same activities as people in this forum, because it causes diplomatic incident(s) and embarrasses the U.S. government. Furthermore, their official capacity and Top Secret Clearance/ Access make them vulnerable to blackmail to anyone who wants to do harm to the U.S. or gather intelligence on other embassy U.S. officials.

This is serious business and they're in career ruining trouble.

cafetero
  6/1/2017 19:07 EST

and, it drives up the price of putas when these high rollers on government expense account pay outlandish prices for ¨entertainment¨

dliss62
  6/1/2017 20:05 EST

Cafetero, very funny, but the government does not pay for Putas and what these guys are paid, I don't consider them "high rollers". Although, their trip and lodgings is paid by the tax payer (you) and another reason why they're not suppose engage in this behavior.

cafetero
  6/1/2017 20:23 EST

I remember one of the ¨non-high-rollers¨ who was involved in the Secret Service fiasco in Cartagena paid a hooker $800 to visit him in his room. Pretty significant increase over what the locals pay.

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bigjailerman
  6/1/2017 21:02 EST

that price by itself is a crime

SunsetSteve
  6/1/2017 21:46 EST

I sense a consistent theme among the various threads of late. I'm thinking I will need to address certain "health" issues before my move south. Feeling motivated to shake the doldrums!

dliss62
  6/2/2017 00:06 EST

Cafetero, you remember incorrectly, the guy took the girl back to his hotel room. The next morning she charged him $800 dollars and he refused to pay her. The hotel staff called the cops who then called the embassy. In the end, his buddies got together to pay the scamming prostitute b/c he did not have the money and payment was mandated by the police.

It sounds that you believe that government workers are high rollers? I do know one...Donald Trump!

cafetero
  6/2/2017 07:20 EST

In this case yes, the government workers are and were high rollers in my opinion. They did pay the girl $800 for a few hours, which is more than most Colombian women who are employed legally make in three months or more.
There is something odd though about the police mandating the payment be made....that´s actually the role of a judge, not the police.

augieman
  6/2/2017 15:39 EST

This is a very serious failure to exercise goid judgement.
An article in the Miami papers fleshed out the story more.
They used a gov't issued card to withdraw money to pay them.
The officers came back to hotel in morning past other marines leaving for airport for flight out.
In the draft years military careers would end.
The volunteer military cossets their own much more.

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augieman
  6/2/2017 15:41 EST

And government issued laptops and iPhones were taken along with personal ones.SECURITY??

GFi32
  6/12/2017 17:35 EST

No sympathy. They aren´t even wanted in countries around the world, acting like a bunch of idiots does not make it any better. America is working overtime to maintain a halfway decent rep these days. It is already hard enough with recent high profile global issues and occurrences, stories like this do not help matters..

Jaybee315
  6/13/2017 09:09 EST

It's not really odd for the police to require payment. They receive a complaint, of a "he said/she said" incident. If someone is going to be charged, then that person is going to jail to await for a judge to decide.

The police inform the person of his options: A. Pay the $800 and everybody walks away. B. Refuse to pay and go to jail while your case is decided.

bigjailerman
  6/13/2017 11:45 EST

That's why the rich don't get locked up..

cafetero
  6/13/2017 11:51 EST

not paying a bill, such as not paying a hooker, is not a crime. It would require each side to hire an attorney and take it to court. The police only intervene to keep the two parties from fighting. In the case of a fender bender, where there is clearly damage, and usually clear that one person or the other is at fault then the police can offer to call the transito and have the cars impounded until the judge decides who will pay who. In that case, the police might suggest that one person pay the other so that charges are dropped. But, if you don´t pay your rent the police are not going to arrest you. If you don´t pay your utilities the police are not going to arrest you. If you don´t pay your employee the police are not going to arrest you without a warrant. If you don´t pay your hooker the police are not going too arrest you without a warrant.

cafetero
  6/13/2017 13:10 EST

The aggrieved party has to file a ¨demanda¨ en Fiscalia. Then the police will suggest payment prior to arrest.

LSchrom
  7/2/2017 16:47 EST

Well, if it wasn't conduct unbecoming an officer, WHAT would you call it beside stupidity?

regnatarajan
  7/2/2017 19:30 EST

Stupidity is enough, imho. What is their crime? They went out drinking, found some girls, went back to their place and got drugged and robbed. Have you guys all forgotten what it was like to be young, stupid and horny? Tell them "don't do it again" and file it.

WhoaNellie
  7/2/2017 19:53 EST

If it had been on their own time, maybe...

But the three of them were not just fallen off the turnip truck last night, not just young studs. It was a full Colonel and two Majors, all senior officers. All married I believe. Overseas you are always considered as on duty and representing your country. As an officer, hell, even as a Non-Commissioned Officer (like a Sergeant) if I remember correctly, you take an oath, and you are expected to conduct yourself at all times as an officer and a gentleman. And what about their wives and the betrayal to them! This is definitely "conduct unbecoming an officer" and prejudicial to good order and discipline.

If you take the stance that anything and everything can and should be forgiven with no down side, no punishment, what does the institution even stand for?

In addition there was apparently theft of a government laptop or two due to their negligence, perhaps containing sensitive or even classified information, as well as the theft of their personal devices.

Not exactly an affair in which they covered themselves with glory - rather some other odoriferous substance which will stunt their career chances very effectively.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article152948834.html

LSchrom
  7/3/2017 17:13 EST

Well, as my Marine friends tell me, this little freshman stunt, will not just stunt their careers, but most likely subject them to court-martial and expulsion.

Now, about their loving wives back home, I certainly wouldn't take any chances with them brings back some unwanted STD's and as soon as I found out, I'd be in my attorney's office. Who knows what unwanted presents they may bring home at any point from anywhere.

Marine officers want to know the outcome and are rolling on the floor at the absurdity. No sympathy to be found amoungt the ranks.

Elexpatriado
  7/4/2017 03:06 EST

Reminds me of a Joke.

How do you.make a hormone?

Dont pay her.

LSchrom
  8/23/2017 19:37 EST

Anyone heard what happened to these poor misbegotten dumbells. My Marine Corps friends asked me the other day?

dumluk
  8/27/2017 18:12 EST

Well, we all are well aware that a trip to Colombia can be a life changing experience........

regnatarajan
  8/27/2017 18:40 EST

I sent this to the US Marines Southern Command. I'll let you know if they respond.

View post on imgur.com

LSchrom
  8/27/2017 21:32 EST

I personally hoped they were cashiered. These were not college freshmen.

joemindwarp
  8/27/2017 21:37 EST

The Few, the proud, the dumb,
The MARINES

regnatarajan
  8/27/2017 21:44 EST

Semper stupid. lol.

joemindwarp
  8/27/2017 21:45 EST

Proud of their stupidity too bad there are too many ;"IDIOTS'

i TRIED TO JOIN BUT THEY WOULDN'T
LET ME IN, I PASSED THE ENTRANCE TEST, ARROGANT ASSHOLES

joemindwarp
  8/27/2017 21:47 EST

STUPER FI

joemindwarp
  8/27/2017 21:49 EST

no wonder why they are the 1st to 'go in'
self culling cattle

joemindwarp
  8/27/2017 21:59 EST

a perfect illustration of the Marine corp
mostly Dumb drop outs, or as close to it as it gets

ponymalta
  8/28/2017 08:13 EST

Yet they are the people that defend the country, so perhaps a little respect in order. As far as the "drop-out" comment, Marines usually require high school graduation, based upon what I saw with a local recruiter.

As far as the actions of these particular Marines, the same sort of actions not uncommon among businessmen visiting Colombia. And US government employees who live off the taxpayer with easier jobs, surely would be surprising they are saints.

It is interesting that such an event is news, other countries don't seem to be so interested in such events effecting their own personnel. As far as "reputation" of America, I doubt many non-Americans would take such events too seriously.

LSchrom
  8/28/2017 09:16 EST

When do little boys grow up to be men? Or is that just an oxymoron?

WhoaNellie
  8/28/2017 09:41 EST

LOL it's easy to see on this thread just who, exactly, are the little boys and little girls...

joemindwarp
  8/28/2017 15:35 EST

just don't tell my mom!

joemindwarp
  8/28/2017 21:28 EST

WhoaNelli
7/2/2017 19:53 EST

If it had been on their own time, maybe..

" Maybe that is an excuse to be a total FU idiot, forget the fact they were officers, serves them right, broken marriages, lost careers, estranged children, destroyed lives, a good cartoon if you can take your face out of your palms, LOL. I hate that acronym,

SkyMan
  8/29/2017 17:11 EST

'Sounds like a hot-night...gone wrong.
Oh well...boys will be boys...right ?
And men will be boys.....
Buena Suerte ! Tranquilo.

ponymalta
  8/29/2017 22:25 EST

Returning to the real world, This type of behavior is not uncommon amongst a fairly high percentage of American businessmen visiting Colombia, at least what I have observed. Speaking to people who have worked for multinationals in Colombia, they often have commented on the difficulties for families if a married man is sent to Colombia on assignment.

As far as "image" Colombians I have spoken to (a) laugh Americans would take such a situation so seriously (b) are more annoyed how Embassy personnel treat Colombians routinely in their dealing with the Embassy.

regnatarajan
  8/30/2017 15:43 EST

I got no answer from the USMC. Not even a "no comment".

ponymalta
  8/30/2017 15:55 EST

No offense, but hopefully they have better things to do.

regnatarajan
  8/30/2017 20:09 EST

None taken, but I disagree. If you're going to have a "contact us" form, then man it. If you don't have manpower for that, or you choose to ignore certain inquiries, don't have it.

joemindwarp
  8/30/2017 21:37 EST

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2017/05/30/marine-officers-face-discipline-after-wild-night-out-in-bogota/

SNAFU

ponymalta
  9/12/2017 13:01 EST

Well we can agree to disagree- if they have "contact us" form ( besides for recruitment) I assume it isn't to waste time discussing personal activities of some Marines travelling abroad.

augieman
  9/12/2017 13:18 EST

Everyone is stuck on the conduct of taking rameras to their hotel room.
WRONG.
The issue is the loss of very sensitive government electronic gear.
That it occurred while on a "frolic and detour" just adds to the penalty for the primary" falta."

regnatarajan
  9/12/2017 13:19 EST

Then a polite one-line response, "sorry, we don't discuss those matters" would be fine. Simply not responding is unprofessional. I would expect better from an organization of that nature.

ponymalta
  9/12/2017 20:18 EST

Good point about the loss of equipment, but I am quite sure Marines will take care of what disciplinary measures necessary.

ponymalta
  9/12/2017 20:23 EST

So the US Marines are supposed to respond directly to civilians ? What a waste of money !

The Marines can also have a tighter budget than the other branches of the service- for example sometimes they have to deal with castaway weapons from the Army.

regnatarajan
  9/12/2017 20:39 EST

Bud, you seem to have reading comprehension issues. For the third time, they maintain an open public "contact us" form where they actively invite the public to communicate with them, so yes, they should either respond to inquiries using that channel or they should close it. If they can't comment on matters, a simple "no comment" is polite, you know like common courtesy, which is something sorely lacking among Americans lately. If they aren't willing to observe common courtesy, they should take down that open public "contact us" form.

And as for that "valuable government property", they had their two government issued iPhones with them when they got drugged. That's it. I just don't care at all. At the absolute most, they should be charged the cost of those iPhones.

ponymalta
  9/12/2017 21:02 EST

As far as reading comprehension issue, yes you explained that already- just because some bureaucrat put such a "contact us" button on a website doesn't mean one should wish to waste the time of soldiers. Second, I didn't realize those were just Iphones.

Just a different point of view- I resent all government waste, and it seems besides government employees there is also a section of public that doesn't perhaps grasp America is $17 trillion debt. (Forgetting why we got there and who to blame etc, it is what it is).

So what on earth is the issue- if any organization sends American men to Colombia, this type of behavior will occur amongst a certain percentage- in my business experience a much higher percentage than any other country I have dealt business in.

The Marines in general quite effective at what they do, though for some reasons politicians and public often with no military experience/training/studies feel they know how Marines should run their own affairs. Al this PC social engineering I would have hoped would be kept away form the military,

Luckily still some Marine officers and soldiers who still focus ultimately on what and how to achieve their mission.

regnatarajan
  9/13/2017 00:26 EST

Well, with respect, I find your position to be simply silly. The idea that it's somehow adequately professional for the US Marines, who supposedly pride themselves on professionalism, to maintain a public point of contact and then ignore contacts made there, is just ridiculous and absurd. You may disagree that they should have such a point of contact, but they do, and to say it's fine for them to have it and ignore inquiries on it is holding them to a lower standard than we'd expect of any small business. That may be ok in your eyes, but it's not in mine.

And no, it's not ok for marines to ignore the orders of "bureaucrats". To suggest that displays an apparent lack of knowledge of the entire command structure of that organization.

No offense intended. I'm not looking to pick a fight. I just think your position is absurd and have said so. I agree with you on the irrelevance of the infraction. Many others here disagree with us both on that.

augieman
  9/13/2017 07:05 EST

I understand there was a computer personal iPhones AND govt issued iPhones.

The issue is not the loss of government property.

WHAT INFO WAS ON THAT PHONE??

A TREASURE TROVE OF INTELLIGENCE.!!
That's why
Items like this sell for big dollars to our enemies.

LSchrom
  9/13/2017 09:06 EST

It was NOT a minor infraction when they walked past their fellow marines going in, not out. it shows a lack of discipline, sets a poor standard for other troops, and a willful disregard for authority.

These were not NCO's. They were ranking officers which makes the example they set all the more egregious. If they had been privates, they would have been cashiered out that day. Why sympathy for three of officers couldn't keep their pants on.

I'm a military brat, and I know what the rules are. So they should have.

LSchrom
  9/13/2017 09:06 EST

It was NOT a minor infraction when they walked past their fellow marines going in, not out. it shows a lack of discipline, sets a poor standard for other troops, and a willful disregard for authority.

These were not NCO's. They were ranking officers which makes the example they set all the more egregious. If they had been privates, they would have been cashiered out that day. Why sympathy for three of officers couldn't keep their pants on.

I'm a military brat, and I know what the rules are. So they should have.

morganstern
  9/13/2017 12:15 EST

UCMJ: All military personal are familiar with the Uniform Code of Military Justice and are aware that it is very subjective under the terms of 'conduct unbecoming'. So most members of the military live with this hanging over their head. Those who ignore this article 22 provision are destined to suffer the consequences....period. Just as in civilian life but more threatening and much more subjective.

peterv123
  9/13/2017 13:07 EST

God, I hope this is not how I spend my retirement days.

ponymalta
  9/13/2017 13:39 EST

All I said was let the Marines deal with their discipline issues themselves; and public debate on issue or wasting time of the Marines having to deal with the public or politicians , just seems a waste of time. In particular sending men to Colombia these things are bound to happen.

ponymalta
  9/13/2017 13:54 EST

Just responding to :

"That may be ok in your eyes, but it's not in mine. "

- We just disagree. I certainly do not wish to waste a moment or time or money of the US Marines over such matters. Especially as I know sometimes they have to deal with hand-me down equipment that the Army has rejected.

"And no, it's not ok for marines to ignore the orders of "bureaucrats". To suggest that displays an apparent lack of knowledge of the entire command structure of that organization."

- The involvement of bureaucrats and politicians these past two decades in the military I view overall as a negative- such as lowering standards to suit some PC social engineering objective.

"No offense intended. I'm not looking to pick a fight. I just think your position is absurd and have said so. I agree with you on the irrelevance of the infraction. Many others here disagree with us both on that."

No offense taken, just a discussion. I have no idea which positon you view as absurd. That I don't think the influence of politicians/bureaucrats overall is helpful to our fighting capability and safety of our soldiers ? That the Marines are perfectly capable of deciding the appropriate discipline of the officers in this incident ? That anyone sending men alone to Colombia seriously believes such problems won't re-occur ?

regnatarajan
  9/13/2017 19:49 EST

I hesitate to belabour this further but you asked a straight question and I'll give you a straight answer. You said, "I have no idea which positon you view as absurd."

1. It is absurd to suggest it is acceptable for the US Marine Corps to maintain a public contact point, invite people to contact them, even put a tick on the form where people can request a response, and then ignore polite inquiries made using that form. Don't get me wrong -- to me this isn't a huge issue, and I certainly wouldn't be making an issue of it had you not defended it, but it is clearly a minor failure on their part and they should take steps to remedy it, even if that step is simply taking down the contact form. Your defending this obvious failure is just silly to me.

2. It is absurd to suggest that marines should not be obligated to follow orders given by bureaucrats. Actually that isn't just absurd, it's dangerous, or would be if you had any power which you hopefully don't. You made this even worse by suggesting in your last post that this was a development of the last few decades. Again, that position is just indicative of a total lack of knowledge of how the US marines work. The marines have always reported to civilians and in fact the secretary of the Navy (who in turn commands the Commandant of the Marines) must by law be a civilian. He also reports to the Secretary of Defense who also by law must be a civilian. You might want to google the concept of "civilian control of the military" which is a doctrine that all industrialized democracies (including the US) adhere to, the alternative being military dictatorships.

LaPiranha
  9/13/2017 20:11 EST

Guys, I think we've done this topic to death.

What worries me more is that most of the US military go around, on duty, high as a kite, driving around in their Jeeps, smoking all sorts, blatantly and openly. Even as far back as Vietnam, and still doing it today.

And these are the people who are supposed to be defending your country? And protecting the free world?

joemindwarp
  9/14/2017 09:01 EST

traveled many countries as a military contractor so I am exposed to Army personnel behavior off Base, they are mostly, IMHO, of giving Americans a bad name with their antics and criminal doings, ,

bigjailerman
  9/14/2017 17:32 EST

Coping techniques?

ponymalta
  9/15/2017 09:18 EST

Well yes probably subject has been discussed excessively on the points you continue to describe as silly and absurd.

My position very simple, if someone posted some contact point for civilians to waste the military's time and money, and then a marine just decided a waste of time to answer, I have no problem with that though I see your point. In any case as you say a minor issue.

As far as civilian control of the military through cabinet secretaries ( not lower bureaucrats) that is one thing- it is quite another bureaucrats and politicians lowering standards or seeking to involve themselves in military decisions to engage in social engineering or political correctness.

regnatarajan
  9/15/2017 13:00 EST

I realize this is silly of me to belabour this, but the things being said here are simply factually wrong and I feel the need to respond.

Re: "As far as civilian control of the military through cabinet secretaries ( not lower bureaucrats) that is one thing - it is quite another bureaucrats and politicians lowering standards or seeking to involve themselves in military decisions to engage in social engineering or political correctness."

No. Wrong. It is not quite another thing for bureaucrats and politicians to give lawful orders to active duty military. As I noted, that is just totally ignorant. Really, quite remarkably ignorant, and repetitively so, apparently indicative of an unwillingness to learn or look up readily available facts. I honestly don't know why you continue to pontificate on this topic when you clearly know nothing about it at all and seem to be unwilling to do simple web searches for documentation that is easily available to show how totally wrong you are.

It is also not just cabinet secretaries. The Department of Defense has roughly three quarters of a million civilian bureaucrats working for it, literally tens of thousands of whom are legally empowered to give direct orders to active duty military. The entire Army Corps of Engineers, for instance, takes almost all of its orders from civilians. Any bureaucrat who is lawfully in a direct line of command above a soldier may give that soldier a direct order.

That you may disapprove is irrelevant. That you appear to be fine with soldiers disobeying direct lawful orders is simply silly. That you continue to type this factually incorrect nonsense endlessly is irritating.

dliss62
  9/15/2017 13:42 EST

Die thread! Please die!

SkyMan
  9/15/2017 16:05 EST

dliss62......totally agreed !
Buena Suerte ! Tranquilo.

pocopelo
  9/15/2017 19:04 EST

Rarely do I scroll through a thread without digesting everything. This one, YES!

ponymalta
  9/17/2017 09:28 EST

Reg

You may wish to read more carefully what you are responding to, which may then eliminate the need for the need emotive and pejorative words in a discussion- you must have overlooked what I actually wrote.

You wrote : "“…… but the things being said here are simply factually wrong

(Quoting me)Re: "As far as civilian control of the military through cabinet secretaries ( not lower bureaucrats) that is one thing - it is quite another bureaucrats and politicians lowering standards or seeking to involve themselves in military decisions to engage in social engineering or political correctness."

No. Wrong. It is not quite another thing for bureaucrats and politicians to give lawful orders to active duty military. As I noted, that is just totally ignorant. Really, quite remarkably ignorant, and repetitively so, apparently indicative of an unwillingness to learn or look up readily available facts. I honestly don't know why you continue to pontificate on this topic when you clearly know nothing about it at all and seem to be unwilling to do simple web searches for documentation that is easily available to show how totally wrong you are.."

You response somehow doesn't make sense- I specifically mentioned my opinion that the bureaucrats whose actions lowered standards or sought to impose social engineering on the military. And yes I assumed that ultimately any authority of a civilian over uniformed personnel came from the cabinet secretary.

Further you write : "That you may disapprove is irrelevant. That you appear to be fine with soldiers disobeying direct lawful orders is simply silly. That you continue to type this factually incorrect nonsense endlessly is irritating.”

You have overlooked I specifically said previously that I was quite confident the Marines would deal with the issue in their own manner, and that I just felt it was a waste of the military's time and money to respond to civilians concerned about the issue. And a bit naïve to assume sending men to Colombia on any assignment a percentage wont engage in such activities..

I actually appreciate your post, and did look at a few articles and the extent of government bureaucrats having authority over uniformed personnel was more than I thought, So I learnt something.

Politeness is always a virtue.

The extent of civilian involvement in counter-productive decisions to restrict our soldiers safety and ability to achieve their objectives, based often on ignorance of different parts of the world by political hacks I find irksome and often harmful to our soldiers from the USA or the UK.

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