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smilinfred
  10/25/2013 11:47 EST

In the interest of full disclosure, I offer the following: I got my first Real Estate Broker's license in 1972, a short time after leaving Viet Nam. I have been involved in real estate operations in many countries, including Jamaica, the Cayman Islands, and Mexico. In all cases my clients came from distant locations, like the US.. I am not currently a resident in Ecuador, but plan to be as soon as I finish arranging my life so that I am not one of those who come and leave within 2 years. I have visited and plan to do more until emigration. I also keep up with this forum as best I can, and others including Military Veterans in Ecuador.
This post is prompted by observation of a lot of disparaging and snide remarks about real estate brokers on this forum. I'd like to say a few words on the subject.
I find Ecuador to be a great country with a lot of advantages for expat persons and families. It has a super culture, with warm and accepting population. There are great natural resources, and a multitude of climates to meet your desires. The government is friendly to its citizens, and is interested in raising its standard of living. It offers the same economic advantages to expats as to its own citizens. Check out the cost of living for retirees!
Now look at some of the factors that offer both advantages and disadvantages to those who want to come live here. Ecuador is a third world country. In many ways it is like the wild wild west truly was in America's history. There is little regulation, and protection against fraud and corruption. Government is inefficient and difficult to traverse for those who must interact with it.
This is a pretty accurate picture of the scene facing those of us who want to come and base our lives here. It is particularly vexing when it comes to investing the money for a place to live.
Look at some of the risks. 1. There is the "Gringo effect". If you approach a property owner to buy his property, he takes one look at you and quotes a price anywhere from 20 to 50% higher than he would quote a fellow Ecuadorian. 2. There is no Stewart Title company or similar 3rd party assuring you that the person you are talking to actually has a clear title to the property, and the money you pay him actually gives you clear title. You can consult an attorney, but how do you know you have an honest one? 3. There is little or no financing available for a real estate purchase, so if you make a mistake you are seriously damaged. 4. How can you assure yourself this guy hasn't sold the same house to three different buyers this week? 5. How do you know he real market value of the property you want to buy? There is no central listing of transactions to allow you to see what similar properties have sold for. Besides that, most owners lie about the sale and purchase prices to the government to reduce the amount of the property transfer tax.
Those are some of the issues you face when moving to EC.
There are several ways you can choose to mitigate the dangers you face. You can spend considerable time and money not only on determining the location you want to live, but finding the answers to the issues we raise here. If you have the time to take this approach, it might be a good choice - especially if you speak fluent Spanish. If not, your first task is to find a native who does to help you thru the morass.
Another option is to go to a reputable real estate broker. (I can hear the screams already!). These people whose entire livelihood depends on knowing how to navigate the swamp we just talked about. You will note I used the word reputable. This industry in an unregulated place like Ecuador certainly has its share of charlatans and thieves. You certainly need to check out the broker you choose. What is the reputation in the community? What are the references they can give you from previous clients? How long have they been active in the Ecuadorian market? How much experience did they have in the US or Canadian Market? What was their reputation in those markets. (It's very easy to check for complaints, suits, etc. in the US and Canada.).
It is very true that if you find the property you want, are a good negotiator, and can traverse the quicksand that you can buy cheaper from an owner. This is true in the US as well as anyplace in the world, providing the broker and the owner have not entered into an exclusive right to sell agreement.
OK, so what is the cost for these services. In general, n locations where the buyers comes from distant locations, the fees are usually between 6-10% of the selling price. A point to note is the broker wants to sell the property, so he has already negotiated with the seller to establish a fair selling price, not the "Gringo Special".
In any event, knowing these factors, you are free to choose "Door A", and go it on your own, or "Door B" and get an expert to help you thru the process.
My final word is this. Reputable Real Estate Brokers do not deserve the contempt I see expressed all to often on this forum, and buyers who make big mistakes do not deserve the contempt I sometimes hear from real estate salespeople. Brokers offer their services, and buyers are free to choose. Most folks on both sides are trying to make the best decisions they can.
God bless us all.

Hwy101
  10/25/2013 19:09 EST

So, smilinfred, how is your Spanish? And, you know all about Ecuador from Reading this Forum? And, when you get your life in order you are going to join the others here selling Real Estate. Will you become 'Licensed?' Or, are you going to pass that? Are you going to be a 'Broker here?

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smilinfred
  10/25/2013 19:20 EST

I don't really know if I will sell Real Estate. Depends on how much longer before I can come - I might be able to just retire! I would definitely support stronger licensing laws for this profession, and perhaps others.
I learned what I know about RE in Ecuador from many sources, and I believe my statements fairly reflect the situation there. I have had to analyze the industry in several countries for various clients in the past. Do you quarrel with my conclusions, or are you just making comments?

smilinfred
  10/25/2013 19:21 EST

BTW, my Spanish is pretty basic. My wife, who is a native Spanish speaker, has to correct me a lot, LOL!

casadecuenca
  10/25/2013 19:33 EST

Good luck Fred, Ecuador from a real estate perspective is the wild wild west and you will find it an uphill battle to change things. I've been here almost 2 years and from what I have experienced, the biggest problem is people trying to sell property they do not own--and it is not just Ecuadorians trying to do that. Before you can get anyone's attention, you wil have to be fluent in Spanish and that will take a couple years.

I suggest you come here for 6 months or so, enjoy what Ecuador has to offer, before trying to change things. Think of life here as a never ending string of Sabatos.

TomKat
  10/25/2013 19:40 EST

Well SmilinFred, most gringos eventually figure out that expats coming to Ecuador to get into a business, real estate or otherwise, should be avoided at all expense. Some find out the hard way by plunging ahead on expense instead of avoidance. Caveat Emptor!

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Hwy101
  10/25/2013 19:44 EST

Many things come up smilinfred, like is your wife Latin American Spanish? We, who live here, find it Interesting when someone who does NOT live here, comes and tells us about what is happening here. It is most interesting when that happens. So, we have mostly an unregulated industry that likes to, what did you say: '... 20 to 50 percent higher than to a fellow Ecuadorian' Owner or Broker - maybe, just maybe the 'snide' remarks are justified.

smilinfred
  10/25/2013 23:47 EST

I guess my point is not to change things but more to describe the wild wild west in property transfers currently occurring. One of you was kind enough to describe one of the things I listed as a danger - people selling a property they don't own. I do have little patience or regard for that kind of behavior which when tolerated victimizes everyone. I believe it is in everyone's interest to avoid getting caught up in such situations whenever possible. There are honest ethical people everywhere, and I enjoy doing business with them. I've made a number of friends in EC, and I'm looking forward to spend a lot more time with them. PS, my wife does speak Latin American Spanish. Truth is, it is a little different in every country. That's why syndicated Latin soap operas, etc, are shipped to each country with different sound tracks. Hope to meet you all one day.

ebfarkas
  10/26/2013 13:29 EST

Ecuador does have laws related to property sales & construction. There are licensed real estate brokers, engineers and architects. Make sure that who you hire has the corresponding Ecuadorian certifications. Not many, but they do exist.

OceanHideaway
  10/27/2013 03:58 EST

Thanks Ed --

For bringing up the fact that there are LICENSED Real estate brokers in Ecuador and soon -- you will need to be licensed or working under one directly.

I find it telling that the "real estate" seller who has been hanging around here for a few months, Larry Pioli, has NOT posted on this thread. He is NOT licensed, nor are the people he works with (another fellow who used to hang around here as well)

We have a few sayings here in the expat community --

"One of the most dangerous things you will meet in Ecuador is a Gringo with a Business Card"

...good advice...

smilinfred
  10/27/2013 08:22 EST

Good post Susan. I believe in licensing in this industry. I have been licensed in 4 different states at various times, and several foreign jurisdictions. Everyone benefits when people who ask you to spend your money are held to certain standards of behavior.

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larryp
  10/30/2013 15:26 EST

I am a proud member of the RE/MAX family, the worlds largest Real Estate organization and they are licensed to do business in Ecuador...anyone can verify that with RE/MAX corporate in Texas if you wish...they have many attorneys who will help you. The master franchiser is in Quito and my broker is in Cotacachi...my broker has over 30 years experience with the RE/MAX brand, and I have been involved in Real Estate both personally and professionally for over 20 years as well. The franchiser or my broker will be more than happy to assist you in your endeavors to get the facts, feel free to contact me for their contact info.

Now in regards to licensing, I completely believe in licensing and bringing the Real Estate business into the 21st century in Ecuador, but there are a few issues with that at this time.....once Ecuador gets off its lazy duff and puts rules and laws in place that have any teeth and a board to dole out fines, punishments or jail time to those that don't follow the law and ethics codes and bring licensing to the people at large instead of only having classes in Guayaquil or Quito, only twice a year, for 6 months at a time with one training session a week and bring the cost down to a reasonable rate so everyone can afford to take the course and get licensed....then and just about only then will everyone want to get licensed.....now its a fiasco and there is no board and no policing of policy or law so although there is a rule that states you need to be licensed individually, there is no one to enforce it and the piece of paper does not give anyone ethics or honor to their word or contract. The new law that will be going into effect states that you can work under someone with a license, which is also ridiculous. I have assistants that are NOT agents and they can not represent themselves as agents to clients which is a RE/MAX rule as well as mine. I actually have a Real Estate office, with employees, pay legally, more than minimum wage and am a contributing member to the Ecuadorian economy. I have been here permanently for going on 3 years and have owned property here for almost 5.

I have assisted many people in the purchase of real estate here in Ecuador, my own and my listings and have helped clients out with serious real estate issues, even when they caused the issues themselves. I also have an in house attorney in case you ever need one to answer any other real estate related questions, or other legal questions you may have regarding the laws of Ecuador. Feel free to contact my office and we will do our best for you.

Unlike others I have nothing to hide from, nor was running to a foreign country to get away, but rather to retire....plans changed and I run 3 different and successful businesses here. I own a lot of real estate, and have invested heavily in Ecuador...have you? So Susan, do you actually own a piece of real estate in Ecuador in your name or are you simply an innkeeper...or better yet, aren't you a gringa with a business card too?
I wonder, since your hostal is up for sale...for a cool million I might add, did Amy do the appraisal, since she is such a great Realtor that you tout, my question to you is "why does she not have your listing?", as it is listed in Viviun...right?, (so who is actually trying to screw unsuspecting gringos, since surely no Ecuadorian will buy such an overpriced piece of real estate, unless part of the drug trafficking trade to hide money?) Do you own it or are you just an employee? Fair questions for someone that has NEVER met me, NEVER seen my business, NEVER been to my businesses, nor has any right to mention my name in any context...period!

Now since I don't use this forum to advertise my business as you do, I have now decided to go ahead and use it for that purpose.

I am the owner and developer of a beautiful Pacific coastal mountain that I am building named Vista Pacifica...our first phase is 40% sold out, our first duplex condo units are sold out and you can take a look at www.vistapacificahomes.com to see what we are all about...and visit our facebook page as well.
We are proud to be the ONLY completely approved and legal development in our area, we have underground electrical service..a private underground water storage system, private roads, we are gated and guarded, actual underground drainage, offer estate sized lots and custom home building with a full set of registered CC & R's, full approval from the Ministerio de Ambiente, a budgeted HOA etc.
Anyone can ask me questions about my development or about what other Real Estate I have listed and for sale through RE/MAX at www.remax.com.ec, or through my website.
I specialize in the Manabi province from Manta to Pedernales in Ecuador and can assist you with either the sale or purchase of Real Estate in over 90 countries world wide.

larryp

ebfarkas
  10/30/2013 15:54 EST

The few who are indeed licensed have taken a six month course which includes multiple written examinations. The laws here are evolving and have a way to go. They do, however, exist. A good start is to respect what is in place. The few that are licensed understand the complexities. A business can have an "RUC" but it is the individual who is actually licensed. This is an important distinction. Personally I prefer doing work with organizations that do not personalize their perspectives. Professionalism implies a discussion of facts allowing the information and data to speak for themselves. If RE/MAX contributes to development of the local economy in a way that is consistent with municipal, parrocial, provinicial and national law that great..

larryp
  10/30/2013 17:42 EST

...and why do you think there are very few ebfarkas?...I follow the law by the way, just so you know and I would take the course as well, if it meant anything..again, there are no enforcement policies nor a board to oversee the licenses...so please...its moot until that happens. I have used licensed engineers who I KNEW more than they did and they screwed up royally, yet no one to make any type of formal complaint to that will do anything about it. EVERY attorney that I used at the beginning was either a doctor or an experienced attorney and they stole from me and did not complete their work...so again PLEASE do not tell ME about licensing as if its some magic wand to cure the ails of that or any other profession..again a piece of paper does not make a professional, nor give them ethics.

Do you really think the largest real estate organization in the world does NOT follow the rule of law in any country they are in and have rules in place for their agents? Surely you understand what being the largest and having a brand that is world wide means!

The laws here are very deficient, but those that take the time to understand it from a perspective as I do and have from a developing and building standpoint along with a selling standpoint of my own properties and those of my clients know as much or more than anyone that does not have this type of experience. So I ask you, which would you rather be represented by....a newly licensed agent who knows nothing except what they have been taught, with possibly no real experience or someone who has been through it all and understands what it takes to get the job done professionally for you, either the seller or the buyer...isnt THAT what is really important, and NOT the paper?, especially since the paper has NO meaning yet and NO bearing on how much they know or how professional they are? Until that happens you can expound upon the virtues of having that piece of paper that says you are something without any of the possibility of loosing it for doing the wrong things for your clients any way you wish, but I ask you, what good is it if you can't loose it or get fined or imprisoned for not following a code of ethics and the law whether you have a license or not?

If this was such a concern for Ecuador, they would be cracking down on all the unlicensed agents in the country instead of charging over $2500 for a course to sell real estate....it's a business, plain and simple and only one company to give the course?, and if you think for one minute it is not corrupt too, then I suggest you have not done much business in Ecuador and could not know what goes on here.

Do you speed while driving ...its illegal and against the law, right?, but I bet many still do it...I do and there are laws that have teeth because you can get fined, imprisoned, loose your car and license etc.....yet here in Ecuador there is no real governing body to make sure things are legit in the real estate business?, which is a pretty good sized business. Do you have ANY idea how many Ecuadorians screw gringos and other Ecuadorians here on Real Estate? Do you know how many gringos do that? No, I bet you don't just like Susan doesn't know either, she just belongs to a group that THINKS anyone coming here to do any business (other than them or their friends of course) is either a crook or running from something, yet she is one of the gringos/gringas that have a business here to promote, along with an agenda as we all have...not that it is a bad thing necessarily unless there is something else under foot and going on....right?

My point was and always has been....what good is it if you can just work under a licensed broker or agent, if you don't have to get licensed too...what is the real difference?, so as I said, it really makes no sense at all because until there is a board or governing body, there is no enforcement anyway.

I have checked and can not find one case of Real estate misconduct, fraud, or any crime charged to anyone by the government or any governing body (I would welcome such info if there is any) ...there are individual cases where someone has sued someone else for many varied and different reasons regarding real estate, so again, I ask you what good is the law when it has NO teeth...just to say you are licensed?, big deal or not?...only each one of us can decide...but to assume that makes someone more professional or ethical is a rather dangerous assumption when there is no enforcement at all....yet!

When it is the LAW where you can get fined or go to jail for NOT having a license, I bet the shake up will be felt far and wide and I KNOW for a fact that RE/MAX will not bring on anyone that does not have one and any agent that does not get one will NOT be able to work for them. Until then I will follow the rules that are in place by RE/MAX and follow the law, regardless of whether I am under someones license, my own or my companies.

I hope that makes my position clear to you. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

larryp

P.S. If someone does not wish to do business with me for my views so be it, as I am plenty busy as it is, but I will not back down from what I believe in either.

smilinfred
  10/30/2013 17:47 EST

Not to get into a fight, but I am glad we see examples of licensed brokers in Ecuador. Another one I am personally aware of is Kimberly Kagan, owner of Island Estates International.
Larry is right as far as I know that agents working for a broker do not currently require licensing. The deal has to go thru the licensed broker, however. I don't personally know if the law allows a franchisee to operate without a licensed broker or not. I'm sure some of you can answer that question better than I can. As Larry says, the laws are evolving, and enforcement mechanisms are still largely absent. We'll all be better off when they are in place and used to police the business. Current laws do require brokers to attend a six month course in Guayaquil or Quito, and the cost is $2,600.00. I hope the sales persons" license, when promulgated, is a little easier and a little cheaper to obtain, but the intent of these courses and fees is to defray the cost of enforcing the laws, and to provide funds to reimburse those wronged by a broker. Once again, guys, we will be better served when protections of both buyers and sellers are effectively protected.
Meanwhile, it seems to me that personal aspersions add no value to the forum

ebfarkas
  10/30/2013 18:36 EST

Thanks for your reply. It speaks for itself.

larryp
  10/30/2013 20:14 EST

;-)....the response of the typical self important gringo that has no argument except some delusional thoughts of the perfect world here in Ecuador or of course what they would like to see happen here....short lived normally. You ain't in Kansas anymore Dorothy...get used to it.

larryp

charlene4047
  10/30/2013 20:19 EST

Wow - I was a potential client until all this. Never mind. I'm not now.

larryp
  10/30/2013 20:20 EST

Fred...the licensing requirements are not just for brokers but for ALL those that wish to sell real estate...so that means even an agent with either no affiliation or with some company that they join should pay the $2500 to get a license...how many Ecuadorians do you know that can afford that working strictly for commission? Like I stated...it seems to be all the self important gringos that think it works here just like it does in the states...they will learn.

I agree with the premise of licensing if it MEANS something...currently it means absolutely NOTHING as everybody and their dog will sell you Real Estate...next time you are at a restaurant here in Ecuador ask your waiter...he will sell you something too....;-)

larryp

larryp
  10/30/2013 20:30 EST

Who are you speaking to Charlene?

larryp

charlene4047
  10/30/2013 20:35 EST

You, larryp. I'm astonished at the lack of professionalism, among lots of other things. And why so defensive? I didn't see where anyone called you out personally.

TomKat
  10/30/2013 20:46 EST

You have no idea how fortunate you are Charlene!

larryp
  10/30/2013 20:53 EST

Really Charlene...then perhaps you should read the entire thread, see if you find it then. I speak the facts....if you don't find that professional, then so be it, but I do not play the rosy, peaches and cream version of Ecuador that you might find on the internet...I live here, work here, have businesses here and until you do or have any experience at all, you should keep your comments to yourself, if you can't handle brutal honesty, and facts. I always speak my mind instead of giving you the "I'm so sweet speech", some find that important others don't and that is OK, that is why there are so many different flavors of ice cream too, cuz not everyone likes vanilla and chocolate.

larryp

larryp
  10/30/2013 20:57 EST

Although you weren't so fortunate were you TOMKAT?,even though you bought a beautiful piece of land in a wonderful area that you now have for sale for a large and hefty profit since you decided to buy somewhere else...oh yes and aren't you using a gringo to build your house...so I guess he came to Ecuador to do business but you certainly didn't run...right?....like I stated typical self important gringo/gringa that thinks the sun sets and rises on them. You ain't in Kansas anymore or Texas either..oh wait, yes you are, I forgot...you don't live here yet do you.....;-)

larryp

charlene4047
  10/30/2013 21:07 EST

And now you're attacking me. I will not keep my comments to myself and despite your self-aggrandizement, you have no right to tell me to be quiet. I read and reread the entire thread, and while other people just spoke the facts as they saw them, you made personal attacks. Sorry your anger got the best of you.

larryp
  10/30/2013 21:21 EST

Guess you missed this Charlene...........................

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10/27/2013 03:58
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Thanks Ed --

For bringing up the fact that there are LICENSED Real estate brokers in Ecuador and soon -- you will need to be licensed or working under one directly.

I find it telling that the "real estate" seller who has been hanging around here for a few months, Larry Pioli, has NOT posted on this thread. He is NOT licensed, nor are the people he works with (another fellow who used to hang around here as well)

We have a few sayings here in the expat community --

"One of the most dangerous things you will meet in Ecuador is a Gringo with a Business Card"

...good advice...

Its ok, there was a lot of stuff being put out there so it was probably easy to miss while you were getting in the middle of something you know absolutely nothing about...like so many typical gringos, your business if there possibly could have been will not be missed, trust me.

larryp

charlene4047
  10/30/2013 21:33 EST

Sorry, I did miss that. I guess that was the reason for you attacking everyone who posted to the thread. And it is exactly your "views" that put me off, not the "facts" you talked about posting. I'm done. I don't enjoy the forum when blowhards take over.

TomKat
  10/30/2013 21:37 EST

Don't give up on the forum, Charlene. It is a great source of valuable information. In time, all things get fixed!

charlene4047
  10/30/2013 21:42 EST

Thanks, TomKat. I'm not giving up on the forum - just taking a break. But I'm definitely done with that thread. It just keeps getting more absurd.

smilinfred
  10/30/2013 21:50 EST

Well, Larry, I guess it is time to speak to you directly. Your ignorance about facts is forgivable. What I find disgusting is your rationale for not obeying the law is only because there is no one to catch you. You are the same type of guy who pays off inspectors to pass shoddy workmanship or ignores zoning infractions, the same type guys who dump raw sewage into the creeks cause nobody is watching. Don't know for sure if you have done any of those things, but your rationale says that as long as nobody is watching, you can do anything you want.
Why don't you respond with a few more personal attacks on anybody you have missed
so that everyone can see you clearly?
I'm really sorry I have gotten to know you. You are absolutely the best example I've heard in a long time for the reason regulation is necessary.

TomKat
  10/30/2013 21:51 EST

Rational thinking will always serve you well, Charlene! Keep your chin up!!!

larryp
  10/30/2013 21:58 EST

I attacked....? Charlene you have a very dim view of the world and until you get here and see the characters for yourself..YOU have no idea what you are talking about, period....

larryp

larryp
  10/30/2013 22:04 EST

That is quite laughable Fred coming from someone who is not here so you could not possibly know what goes on in Ecuador....Corruption is a fact of life in many Latin countries...just because you turn a blind eye to it does not mean it does not exist. Everyone has their hand out and I do mean everyone, including the municipalities, police, government officials etc. You do not know of what you speak...if that is attacking you then so be it. I gave my rational and opinion and you have the balls to tell me how I do things?...just another self important gringo who thinks they are going to change things here....LOL, never going to happen and I did tell you I followed the law...EVERY one and if I didn't I should be fined or worse...but the reality is, there is nothing to fine me over since I do everything by the law and by the book, but so many don't, matter of fact I do things better than the book and law states...so just because I don't fit into your perfect world scenario....don't assume you know me or anything about me...your pompous ass is showing.

larryp

larryp
  10/30/2013 22:06 EST

This coming from the "queen" of rational...LOL

larryp

charlene4047
  10/30/2013 23:59 EST

OMG - I do not have a dim view of the world. What the hell gave you that idea? I'm not pretending to know as much about Ecuador or real estate as you do, although I've been and I've seen - just not as much as I want to. Your superior attitude to everyone else is just pompous and over- bearing. I said I was done but I forgot to put you on ignore. Done.

OceanHideaway
  10/31/2013 08:42 EST

I believe at some point in all of this Mr. Pioli asked what my "agenda" is ...as it is his beleif that we all must have an agenda.

If that is true -- then my agenda here on ExpatExchange is to Moderate a venue where individual such as Mr. Pioli voluntarily provide proof of exactly who and what they are to the edification of prospective expats.

Obviously that agenda has been fulfilled -- he has made it quite clear exactly the sort of person he truly is and this proof now stands for referenceto anyone who wishes to refer back to it.

By making these statements himself, voluntarily, there can be no question that these statements have been coherced, made out of contexted or otherwise and therefore are in no ways defamatory by libel under the laws of Ecuador as propogated by the secretary to the President of the rep[ublic and brought before Assembly this session 2013.

In regards to his question concerning my friends and associates allow me to clarify: Amy Prisco and Dana Cameron are two women I am extremely proud to call friends.

They are also professionals of the highest calibre.

I have worked with both of them in a professional capacity. I will not elucidate more on that subject as that capacity is privileged information.

I will however state that at no time do any of us rely on "kick backs" for referals one to another -- unless of course you count the occassional slice of pizza, ride to the vet (for Dana who is a fellow animal rescuer), or the occassional bag of chocolate covered uvillas.


And as for the property Ocean Hideaway being for sale -- it has always been for sale -- the advertisement on Viviun was placed in 2008.

I must also add my other favorite statement about "Ecuador: It is the smallest town you will ever live in."

As for Mr. Pioli's responses to TomKat and his personal purchase of property here in Ecuador, his choice of builder and his current location. That is shameful, exemplifies character of the most unbecoming kind, and more than anything is the earmark of his lack of professionalism. Taken with that his insistance that he is overly knowledgeable of the movers and shakers of Ecuador followed by his failure to recognize -- and therefore his attack on -- the esteemed Ed B. Farkas is almost laughable if it had not been so shocking. My personal apologies to Ed Farkas for that attack and once again thank you for all you are doing here on the Coast and with the Assembly in Quito on our behalf and my best to your wife.

Susan
TheOceanHideaway.net

smilinfred
  10/31/2013 10:05 EST

Susan, well said.

Justified
  10/31/2013 21:11 EST

I own real estate bought from Larry P. and he is a lying cheating crook. He lied at every turn as he has with others. The only laws he abides are those that do not exist or he gets officials to look the other way. So some of you are right, at least about him. And I say,,,so sue me LarryP, where did it get your crooked ass last time?

larryp
  11/1/2013 10:46 EST

OK Jeffrey Lomax...no problem at all....since you have been singing the same lame and lying ass song for a while now. I sued you because of your lying once and it cost you quite a bit...want to do that again? (how much did you give to the judge again...I forget...LOL)...won't cost me anything especially since the deal you made for me to drop the criminal charges against you was to cease and desist...so this time it will be quite easy. Your fat thieving friend can join in too if he pleases. Your criminal record report from the USA, is VERY interesting! You sure you want to open up that can of worms for yourself Jeff and your Russian mail order bride again? Since your son in law beat the living hell out of you (nice pics of your face by the way) and I have his statements about what you and your friends were doing I will be calling him as a witness this time, since he came to me with this information. Be careful what you wish for as sometimes you get it!!
I will keep everyone apprised of the case on this forum for all to see, if my attorney says yes to proceeding against Mr. Lomax.
By the way...why don't you let everyone know the specifics of the so called cheating and crooked dealings I had with you...I am tired of your sick, lame country ass...put on your big boy underwear and either sue me if you have the so called proof (or the balls), that you have or come and see me face to face...this could be settled quite easily...quit hiding behind your keyboard, you know where I live since you and your fat friend keyed my car...you also know where my office is and we can meet anywhere you choose. Let's get ready to rumble.....(channeling my best Michael Buffer).

larryp

smilinfred
  11/1/2013 13:24 EST

I started this thread to discuss the need for licensing of those like real estate brokers, builders, developers and others who ask potential buyers for their money. In a way, it is a shame that it has devolved into personal attacks, buy it certainly shows why such regulation is needed.
There are a number of folks who have stated that a particular developer, Larry P, has not performed according to the contract they had with him. So far, there doesn't seem to be a way within the legal system for them to obtain redress for the harm they state he has caused.
Perhaps these people could be accused of being trusting, maybe even gullible for turning loose of their money based on unsubstantiated promises by the developer without any escrow protection of their money. I believe we need a system in place to protect people of good intent from this kind of chicanery.
The bluff, bluster, and attack on his critics, which doesn't answer the allegations against him or deal with a plan to make good on his promises, is a sorry case. His invitation to one of them to "rumble", is a stupid joke. His best protection is for these people to continue to act within the legal system. As long as they attempt to get redress, it is one thing. If they decide to get extra legal revenge, it is quite another.
I believe I have said all I can add on this subject. I would rather see all obligations met by all parties so we could go on with our lives and businesses in a civilized way. God Bless.

larryp
  11/1/2013 13:57 EST

Once again Fred...you don't have a clue!!
SHOW me what contracts I have failed to live up to...if ANYONE wishes to prove their allegations its an EASY thing to do...but TALKING and LYING is even easier. RE/MAX told them to prove it as well, yet not one of them came through with any proof...so YES I am tired of the lies being put out there as the truth and you blind, ignorant gringos just believing it since you are all so quick to judge. Before you throw stones sir...you should KNOW what the hell you are talking about...I am tired of the asinine liars on this forum....so the challenge was issued to PROVE them...period...if you can't follow that simple premise then I suggest you are part of the gringo problem...plain and simple. It's REAL easy to talk...not so easy to prove allegations that are lies. I will and have used the laws that are in place here for developing and for defamation...you have an issue with that?
As I stated...rather than believe what someone writes...come and SEE for yourself Fred...do you have the guts to come and see the truth for yourself or are you just another Susan?
Are you really that ignorant that a comment that states "lets get ready to rumble" (a very famous quote before every championship fight that Michael Buffer announces), is somehow bad? Once again your bias of the facts and ignorance shows through.

larryp
P.S. Fred...I have the ONLY fully approved legal development in our area...and NO amount of lies can and will change that...we helped the municipality write the ordinances for propiedad de horizontal since they didn't have a mechanism in place for those approvals even though its the LAW of Ecuador...you don't know how these small municipalities work...so NO ONE has propiedad de horizontal...which is not legal for either the development or the collection of HOA fees. We are the FIRST development (of course others have been selling illegally for years with NO approvals). We set the bar and none of your posturing or those with other agendas can change the FACTS!!!

GringoinQuito
  11/1/2013 15:28 EST

Dear God! This whole thread is an embarrassment. I'm glad I live in Quito, seperate from most gringos.

OceanHideaway
  11/1/2013 15:59 EST

"RE/MAX told them to prove it as well, yet not one of them came through with any proof..."

That response is confusing -- if you sold the property as the developer of Vista Pacifica, why would anyone with a complaint against you have to show proof to Re/Max a franchise where you work as a sales agent?

And who specifically at Re/Max required this proof, what is that persons name?

larryp
  11/1/2013 17:40 EST

Susan...you started some of this and you did NOT answer my questions...do you think for one minute that you have more rights to ask me and get answered than I do? I was not speaking of my development...I was speaking of the lies that have been made about me...and people that have stated I did something wrong....my broker asked for any proof to be supplied on a different forum where some and their friends stated that I had wrongdoings ...and SURPRISE....NONE WAS!! I work for a real estate organization and if there was any proof it should have been shown and I would have been sanctioned, fired, let go or any other words that fit. STAY OUT OF THIS as it certainly is NONE of YOUR business...I don't believe you OWN real estate or have had any transactions with Amy, or Dana..and all you would have to do is prove it with escritura or factura...you want to be believed, then prove it, just like I state to anyone else...you have something to say about me...prove it!!!...one last thing...I expressly do NOT give you permission to copy and paste anything I write and unless you have it in your terms of service that you can take anything and use it anyway you wish, you are NOT allowed by me to do so. If you do have it somewhere on your site...show me!! Plain enough for you?!

larryp
P.S. I am a RE/MAX agent and proud of that affiliation and if anyone has any proof of ANY wrongdoing of any kind they will ask me to resign or just let me go...all they have to do is present it here or elsewhere. Although, since according to some there are so many infractions, misrepresentations, lies etc, I have not been sued, shown any proof nor has anyone in any capacity that could sanction me. So anyone can either PUT UP OR SHUT UP as I am done trying to make explanations to you or others that have no clue or skin in the game...all those that state I have done anything wrong, not lived up to anything contractually or otherwise put the PROOF up...the difference is, I will state it like it is and let the chips fall where they may. I am not Malcolm!!!
I can certainly do this all day long as there is nothing I need to hide from, can you say the same or perhaps some others like Jeffrey Lomax or Justified as he goes by.....hmmmm!

PRCountry
  11/1/2013 20:45 EST

larry pioli,

This may help your memory on REMAX( International) LLC responsibilities to Ecuador (no contract or responsibilities)......and REMAX Ecuador! As stated, there is no governing body to deal with unprofessional ethics you shown in 2012 and now again here...... read at your pleasure as Gail Harold (broker/ subfranchisee) chose to do nothing with your attitude, demeanor and unprofessionalism then as his agent because he can just do that..... the rest of this thread speaks for itself.....!

"Dear Sir. :

Thank you for including us on the email you wrote to Gale Harold, the Broker/Owner, concerning a problem you have had with Larry Pioli, a sales associate with RE/MAX Coast and Country II in Bahia de Caraquez, Ecuador. We have also received a copy of the email you sent to Esteban and Antonio Serrano at RE/MAX Ecuador.

As you know, RE/MAX, LLC is an international franchising organization that in Ecuador grants the right to license RE/MAX franchises to an independently owned and operated subfranchisor, RE/MAX Ecuador. The subfranchisor, in turn, grants to independent franchisees the right to operate RE/MAX real estate franchises. The franchisee has no contract or relationship with RE/MAX, LLC. The franchisee's only agreement is with the independent subfranchisor. Although the offices are licensed to use the RE/MAX name and service mark, each is an independently owned and operated business and is responsible for its own activities. These franchisees retain the services of independent real estate professionals. The relationship between the real estate professionals, who are licensed by the State, and the franchisees is a matter handled at the franchisee-agent level. Each agent is answerable to his or her franchisee pursuant to the terms of their agreement with that franchisee. There is no contract or relationship between the individual professionals and RE/MAX, LLC. Against this backdrop, RE/MAX, LLC may not legally manage or regulate the day-to-day activities of either the independently owned and operated real estate office or the individual sales associates who work within the office.

Due to this, Esteban and Antonio Serrano at RE/MAX Ecuador are the best individuals to address your concerns and follow up with Mr. Harold. In addition I will be forwarding a copy of the email below to RE/MAX Ecuador to request this matter be investigated.(FYI.... they did nothing in the Wild West of Ecuador and here we are today with Larry Pioli's continued narcissistic tyrades )

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.


Sincerely,

Amy Richwine
Customer Relations Specialist
RE/MAX, LLC

PS...larry, is RE/ LLC lying here as you always conclude with others?
larry by the way (seeing you asked Jeff Lomax about his wife) how's your recent ex-wife who left after your continued emotional and physical abuse in your short term marriage?

PRCountry
  11/1/2013 21:19 EST

larry... here's more and as you well know the Wild West of Ecuador has NO GOVERNING/ BODY for Realtors and thus Gail Harold and REMAX Ecuador did nothing..... that time!Here's the information you requested......

" Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2:57 PM MST
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Information for Gail Harold Jr. Broker/Owner for Remax Coast and Country- Ecuador Re: Unprofessional Behaviours by your Remax Employee


Good Day Gail Harold Jr. (Broker/ Owner for Remax Coast and Country- Ecuador),



You have asked publicly on the RDS forum (Nov 21/12) and other forums for information about Larry Pioli, a Remax agent of yours and an independent developer of Vista Pacifica working out of Bahia, Ecuador. Please find a number of exchanges from Larry on the Ruta Del Sol Mate facebook forum (RDS) on or around October 28-29-30, 2012. before and after As a Remax employee there is a code of ethics/ conflict of interests he and others must follow and act within their communities. This professionalism and positive contributions are paramount for the success of Remax world wide isn't it? Please review these comments, enticing aggressive responses, giving threats and at the very least unprofessionalism of a Remax employee, let alone a developer with a conflict of interest selling properties on the coast for both parties (you and him).



Thank you for your time and I look forward to Remax's independent investigation of this employee and your response back to me on its conclusions. May I suggest you contact Remax Ecuador in Quito (Esteban or Antonio Serrano/ Isabel Aguirre- Regional Manager of daily operations) and Remax International (Denver- Larry Oberly/ Vp of International Development) for a proper investigation as you may be in a conflict of interest situation? Here are some of the comments on October 29, 2012 (there are many more around the various forums with profound language), feel free to look for yourself:



October 29/12 at 5:08PM – Larry Pioli says… Actually Margarita it was quite easy to order from Columbia...maybe that has changed since the last time you or George have bought any transformers for a large development in Ecuador...I guess all of your combined expertise in developing anything here leave a little, wait no, a LOT to be desired. Actually George for you being a so called "expert" (your words), funny that nothing shows up for you as to anything you state you have EVER done...except have a company that has nothing associated with it either. Your background check reveals you lived in Arizona...surprisingly close by one of the other posters on this forum which would lead one with any bit of intelligence to come to the conclusion that you did business together. There are also a couple of...shall we say, "incidents" on your record George in Maricopa county. Since you have come out to play in this sandbox George, here are a couple of questions for you, lets see how this goes..............................
1. Have you ever spoken to me regarding my development?
2. Have we ever actually met?
3. Have you actually been out to see my development?

4. Do you know anything about the laws regarding developments in Ecuador?
5. Do you or anyone you know bother to look at any documents supporting your wild claims?



5:44 PM Larry says… and the saying should be..."even if you put lipstick on George, he still would not know a thing about developing in Ecuador"



7:51 PM George responses… Larry, why are you talking about me. I have nothing to do with this situation. You should talk to the people that are asking you for accountability and want answers. I have nothing to do with you. This is the most amateurish smoke and mirror effort I have every seen. Larry, you are right, I have never met you, don't plan on meeting you, will probably never see your site. Why are you talking to me.



8:41 PM Larry says… Awww George,did I hurt your little feelings? Come on out and play with the big boys Georgie...if you can. Talk about smoke and mirrors George....LOL...yes you certainly have come up with some havent you?



8:45 PM George responses… Larry, how old are you? Who are these "big boys you are playing with?" Do you even recognize how unprofessional you look when you post these little pissing contests. Your behavior here seems to confirm what so many people here are saying about you. Do you see that? Larry, I don't know anything about you other than what I have read on these pages. I certainly would never do business with you but I never intended to. You have convinced me that you are unstable with all of your juvenile diatribe. I truly hope you get the help that you need and everything works out for you. This will be the last time I waste even a minute on you and your dysfunctional rants. So, if you respond to this, you will be talking to yourself. See if you can let someone else get the last word. I'll bet you can't...



9:08PM Larry says… Well George perhaps you should have thought of that before you posted bullshlt.....so now what George...you wanted to play...so lets play right here big boy.



Another posters says….George's .. post merely highlighted and posed logical questions people should ask themselves when entering into a real estate transaction -- especially for developing properties. These are the same questions that should be asked in any country, US and Ecuador included. As long as a developer is on the up-and-up, I see no problem with them complying with the requests. And if a developer cannot successfully answer those questions clearly and with backup paperwork, a prudent investor would be wise to takes his or her money elsewhere. Pretty simple and noninflammatory. No reason for anyone to get their knickers in a twist.

larryp
  11/1/2013 21:55 EST

Good boy Rowland...I knew that would bring you out along with Jeff Lomax.....I love you boys that cant seem to get it right....just more info for the court when you get here. Looking forward to your arrival.
As hard as you have tried, you still have provided absolutely NO proof of ANY of your unsubstantiated claims because you THINK you are something more than you are. Another hopeless gringo that thinks everything works like it does back in Canada where you work for the prison system....you aint in Canada anymore...and you and your friends can continue to try and make the lies a reality, but the truth is in the doing and what has been done...so Rowland Carey, show us all PROOF of my so called misdeeds and I do mean real proof...not some silly banter but real hard evidence that I have not lived up to any contractual or other agreement with you....I use contracts so everyone knows what they are doing, unlike some here in Ecuador. You have signed a set of CC & R's that you will be obligated to just like everyone else.
You can talk all you want but until you actually show any proof of wrongdoing and keep lying to make your pathetic self look good, I will continue to sue you and cost you money both here and in Canada. Anything else Mr. Carey? AS I have stated, either put up or shut up but will not sit and take your garbage anymore either. Be careful, I have ALL your ridiculous email demands...I can just as easily cut and paste them too...you really want all of the people here to see you for the complete idiot and fool that you are? I can oblige you oedipus complexed buffoon. I can even send you the emails of a client that told you how wrong and ridiculous you were being before you decided to get your revenge for me not allowing you to run my business as the very minor player that you are. I have ALL your emails along with everyone elses that you got to and thought you would be the KING of VP...laughable really.

larryp

todmary
  11/1/2013 22:25 EST

Ed Farkas is a class act. I won't embarrass him by listing all the contributions he has made to the Salinas community or the time and effort he and his wife have spent on improving the lives of the less fortunate children on the coast. 84 kids in Olon come to mind.

I consider myself fortunate to know him and call him and his wife friends..

remoore2001
  11/1/2013 23:31 EST

Unless you idiots have some definite evidence against Larry P then shut the hell up. You all sound like a bunch of stupid gringo's who just want to talk sh3t. Put up or shut up. You people are discusting. By the way I don't know Larry except for a chance encounter at Manta airport, but you are accusing of things and have provided no evidence. Sue him if you know something but this character assassination without evidence is a joke. Get a life folks

PRCountry
  11/2/2013 00:12 EST

Larry, your mediation from your heart attack and heart surgery must be really affecting you...... hoping you a full recovery!
Great comeback on the REMAX facts..... sorry you needed to be corrected!
Moving forward, you’re almost correct I have a full career in Community Safety and Correctional Services as a senior analyst (peace officer) corporately responsible for some high profile portfolios for what is your state governor. So dealing with these inmates and criminals is very similar in my dealings with you and your demeanor. Sorry bullying just doesn’t work with me!!!
Now how is Vista Pacifica coming along since you stopped talking to all the lot owners (do I need to list them) who have confronted you? Do you truly know since you are absent from the development and day to day operations of VP if there are any? However, I do have the same questions I asked you last year when you cut off all communications.
So this could be your stage to enlighten us and sell VP as a place to live now and in the near future (it does have great potential). Here are some questions:
1. Why doesn’t VP have a permanent water source if people are supposed to live within your development. Yes we know you built a few cisterns to hold that water and show on VP facebook. However after 4 years not one person has built a private home..! Is permanent water to the top of the mountain not important to you and Vista Pacifica development? Could be a present/ future selling point don’t you agree? Please stop the smoke and mirrors.
2. When are you going to service all the building lots within VP to the lot lines with underground water lines and electricity as per the registered contracts and urbanization permits? Yes, we know you have two buildings built (guard house and two storey apartments) near the front entrance of VP that have electricity but there are miles of roads up the mountain to the top of those majority of building lots requiring a major expense?
3. What are your timelines to complete these contracted and registered infrastructures/amenities? Will you publish and register those timelines with us, and the municipio in Jama so the present and future clients of VP will have them available and enforceable? They should be your top priority if you want people to buy and build private homes up the mountain and make VP successful... don’t you agree?
4. When will you make available the registered MASTER Schematic plans for the permanent water source, the underground water conduit, lines and various water pumps to help move that water up the mountain to service those building lots, and the underground electrical master plans showing the size of electrical wiring, location and size of appropriate transformers etc.,to each building lot? Is this not important to show the present and future clients of VP that you are building the development to your advertised “highest US standards” with forethought?
In answering these questions you will assist us greatly and give us hope for Vista Pacifica . Maybe, just maybe it’s time to stop making enemies and start to rebuild your life and relationships? I really don’t want to fight with you.
Just sayin.......

Ecuadorgeorge
  11/2/2013 01:25 EST

Wow, this is one hell of a thread and very telling.

I was very surprised to see my name involved in this but what the heck...

Lots of angry people and everyone seems to be angry at the same person.

In the states we would get everyone together in a room and talk about it... maybe in front of a facilitator or a person that is not attached to the situation... Then that person would issue an opinion. Instead of all this bulls#@t that is being spewed here....

And I am still trying to figure out why this Larry guy is bringing me into this mess....

OceanHideaway
  11/2/2013 10:34 EST

It appears we have quite a few individuals with grievances being aired -- and now a list stating some of those reason particularly.

Also we have Mr. Pioli's response as to why Re/Max has been brought into the picture -- that Mr. Pioli believesthe claims against him are lies and his superior (a Gale Harold) broker asked for any proof to be supplied of wrongdoings

Mr. Pioli madde the claim that no proof was supplied -- our poster(s) here provided copies of documents they sent to Re/Max so we know that his statement that none was sent is false

What has been shown is that the information was never received by the correct parties --- which begs the question: If it is shown that in fact Mr. Pioli has acted in a manner so egregious and if in fact his fanchisee "broker" Gale Harold did in fact receive information as to Mr. Pioli's actions and did nothing or worse protected him from sanctions or firing -- what would Re/Max do if they discovered that activity by someone hiding under the banner of their otherwise highly respected company?

Perhaps it would behoove a representative of Re/max to review this Thread on this Forum to get a better idea of :

Mr. Larry Pioli
Mr. Gale Harold Jr.
The purchasers of property at Vista Pacifica -- who's properties have now been unfit for habitability for up to 4 years
And such other persons as both agent and franchisor have contracted with since said franchise was purchased

-- to conclude if actions need to be taken on behalf of Re/max International to protect their name, reputation and business model.

Of course ... that is simply a suggestion --- reflecting the same one Mr. Pioli made earlier in this thread.

larryp
  11/2/2013 11:28 EST

Ahh, yes the same tired responses but you CAN NOT answer the most basic ones...you have ACCUSED me, you and YOUR FRIENDS have LIED about me as you are doing now. YOU have been explained and your attorney gave you the proof, yet you still have demanded more, such as my contracts etc. that I gave to the contractors to fulfill some of our necessary construction per our completely APPROVED and LEGAL development...its ALL right there in JAMA for you to see, at the municipality since we have an URBANIZATION, not a LOTIZATION and you KNOW ABSOLUTELY nothing about the development business, nor the building business here in Ecuador. I am DONE with your ridiculous statements as if YOU are something other than a lot owner...YOU ARE NOT. NOW...bring your PROOF right here MR. CAREY...show EVERYONE what contractual obligations I have NOT Lived up to with you....as NONE of the statements that you have made are contractual.....
THERE IS COMPLETE approvals from the government utilities of CNEL on file for VISTA PACIFICA, along with complete CAD of the entire project. I am so sick and tired of your ridiculous and asinine demands. I have gathered all the evidence including this last stream to provide to the court when you get here...we have some surprises in store for you since you flaunt the law of Ecuador and it is going to be my sincere pleasure to cost you an awful lot of money and time. I gave you and your friends the chance to recant and provide proof...NONE of you has done so....NONE of you have done anything except talk....I HAVE THOUGH....I have sued you all and intend to do it again and again and do nothing but cost ALL of you money, time and aggravation.

MY BUSINESS is MY BUSINESS...you have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT..
,,,,,period. Your ridiculous statements of me not being on site are ignorant to the extreme...you have not been here in almost 2 years to see what is being done, yet you continue to state that nothing has been done...that is a LIE. EVERY CLIENT enjoys a 4 year start of construction time line per our CC & R's and NO HOA fees are due until you start construction (that was your suggestion by the way that I agreed and put in our legal documents but now I see that it is because all YOU wanted was one of the most beautiful lots in Vista Pacifica but did not want to pay for the privilege of owning something very special. OUR final approvals were given on August 28, 2011...legal escrituras were given out after that time to all lot owners that closed and the 4 year build time started then...even for you except you had to negotiate yours to be 4.5 years, even though you had the CC & R's for a year and ONLY gave me trouble on them when it was time to close your lot after I gave you a year to pay...completely interest free I might add!!! There is video on our Facebook page of the underground electrical going in and yet you refuse to believe it and state idiotic things like "I bet he did it on the cheap" and more stupid statements like you have just provided.

SO EITHER PROVE YOUR ALLEGATIONS OR APOLOGIZE FOR THEM, you started this ridiculous revenge issue because I will not succumb to your demands and threats. I AM NOT SUPPLYING YOU WITH ANYTHING...you are now going to have to sue me to even get me to speak to you when you get here or allow you on property. I have legal action against you and will continue it. I offered you OUT and offered to either buy your lot back or sell it for you and you came up with a ridiculous price of DOUBLE what you paid...so I guess you will take someone elses money with ALL the so called issues that are there but you don't want out because your "revenge" would not be able to be completed.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!

Does anyone want to buy Mr. Careys lot?...I have the email that says he will sell it for twice what he paid. If anyone is interested just let me know.

So Carey either show the evidence and proof what you say you have or shut the hell up.

larryp

larryp
  11/2/2013 11:39 EST

Why? Ecuador George (thats a laugh since you have been here all of a month or so only visiting...you OWN nothing) and you are as pathetic of a gringo as the others are since you believe and have used my name along with others to further your agenda too...remember there George? No more attempts here for me to be nice or cordial to liers and thieves...period. You want in George you got it pal. YOU HAVE NEVER MET ME, nor been to my development, nor know anything at all about my business...yet you came out on another forum with your opinion...you know what they say about opinions right George? So you can take your opinion or what you might do if "IN THE STATES"..(what a telling comment...typical gringo)...you AINT in Kansas anymore George or California either when you get here. So as I told Susan...either put up or shut the hell up, you have NOTHING to do with this and I did NOT bring you into it...your buddy Mr. Carey did by cutting and pasting some of your ridiculous statements when you threw your hat into the ring without knowing any of the facts just believing hearsay and stupid comments.

Now back to our regularly scheduled flogging.

larryp

PRCountry
  11/2/2013 12:41 EST

larry, please reread my posts here, ALL I ever asked -not accused was for you to answer the simple questions put to the development of Vista Pacifica as the developer and key player to the lot owners of Vista Pacifcia.

Are they too much to ask for? Why should a major development NOT have a permanent water source NOW and completed infrastructure NOW for all the building lots? That may encourage lot owners to build now if they could! They don't care about the front entrance or the one apartment you had built near the front of VP.

Stop the smoke and mirrors as others may form a negative opinion of you......!? The floor is yours please use it wisely....!

george6900
  11/2/2013 14:08 EST

Larry, after reading this thread, I have decided that you and your development have become interesting enough to write about. You are a newsmaker. And after reading all the above posts, I noticed that you wrote this in one of your remarks.

“Anyone can ask me questions about my development or about what other Real Estate I have listed and for sale”.

So, in order to help clear all this up, and maybe even help bring more attention to your development. I have a list of questions I would like you to answer.

Below are the questions, and please add anything else you might like. The answers to these questions should make everything very clear to everyone currently involved and to future buyers of Vista Pacifica. Thanks for your cooperation and I am sorry for any misunderstanding we might have had in the past.


Can you produce a financial statement and budget with proof of funds to finish out 100 percent of the infrastructure of at least the first phase of this development? (Underground electric and water supply, curbs and gutters, sidewalks, streets/pavement, drainage, lighting, common area landscape if any, club house, etc etc etc.....)

Can you produce proof of a water source for the entire project, including quality of water, amount of water, back up water source, storage system, and engineering on entire system? Is this system currently in place? Cost of this system? Funding for this system?

Can you produce an engineered erosion control plan. It has been reported that major erosion has occurred over the last few years. An engineered plan of remedy would certainly help alleviate most fears of future problems?

Can you produce a timeline for completion of this project, even if it is just for the first phase? If this project is being done if phases, what are they?

Can you produce any type of soils test, both to determine the type and stability of the soil these future homes will be built on and also whether the soil will be suitable to accept a septic system and leach field? 

If you are in a seismic area, have you gotten any reports on what might be needed in the building process to overcome this issue? (larger and deeper footings, sheer wall for lateral strength, hold downs for uplift protection)

Larry, not sure if you have CC and R’s yet or if they are required. Required or not, I would never do a project like this without them. It would be great if you had them posted on your website. Articles of Incorporation would also make things more transparent if they were posted. Any other documentation like Homeowner Association documentation would also help if they are complete and available.

Information is key Larry. Written down information, for everyone to see. This is what keeps this type of drama from getting ugly and truly unprofessional.

Good luck with your project. All this can stop now if you just answer these simple questions that are just a part of doing business. If you were selling a car, I would want to see the condition of the tires, see it run, and look at the paperwork. That is all that is being asked for here. Please do not see this as aggressive or hostile.

Do the right thing Larry... But whatever you do, I wish only the best for you...

George of www.ecuadorgeorge.com. 

larryp
  11/2/2013 15:16 EST

Lets see if you remember this email to me by you Mr. Carey where you accused me and threatened me.......

It is time to s@#t (the system will not let that word go) or get off the pot!!!!! Someone needs to get your eyes opened and this is why I will haunt you until you do what is contractually required now, BEFORE building from our serviced lots with access to permanent community water! A couple of days left before the breaking NEWS….. and the scandal within the development of Vista Pacifica! Can you imagine who else will chime in and give their horrid stories about you and VP and the promises and disappointments? I will give the anecdotal evidence for the writings to have the expats or potential future expats make their own judgements going forward on the various forums and blogs. Now, if you were a betting man, how do you think the development within VP and Larry Pioli will survive this negative publicity and continual feeding of information contrary to your myths without facts?

So yes, you not only threatened me...but accused me as well as you have done in the past...this is but ONE of the ridiculous emails I received after being demanded of so many things from a lot owner etc.

ONCE MORE FOR THE CHEAP SEATS...the law is such that you CAN NOT GET APPROVAL FOR AN URBANIZATION WITHOUT HAVING ALL YOUR PAPERWORK IN ORDER, NOR CAN YOU PUT IN ELECTRICAL SERVICE WITHOUT APPROVAL FROM CNEL. YOU AND GEORGE BELIEVE THIS IS CANADA OR THE USA...IT ISN'T, THINGS WORK DIFFERENTLY HERE!! All your posturing and threats have caused this between us and you listening to your friends Papania and Lomax...oh and just one more SMALL thing...WHERE THE HELL ARE ALL THE CLIENTS that you stated will JUMP ON BOARD WITH YOU?? YOU ARE THE ONLY CLIENT OF VP ON THIS THREAD OR OTHERS...but you make reference to yourself as some type of savior and only your friends who are NOT owners within VP have come forward.....where is THEIR EVIDENCE Mr. Carey? Where are the law suits you mention to me in another email???!!! Why have you not sued me since I am doing NOTHING that I am contractually obligated to do??!! Its a simple process here to do, if you need help just ask someone...an attorney here will take the case I know and charge you a fortune even though they will know there is nothing wrong or they can get it won for you.

ALL THE PAPERWORK AND APPROVALS ARE AT THE MUNICIPALITY OF JAMA in the 6 volumes of studies done before we were approved. Have your attorney get a copy for you, it is very simple to do this research Mr. Carey...if you are too ignorant to get that done...ask her, I am sure for a fee she will do that for you. OH yes and not one of the other developments in the area has APPROVAL from the Ministerio de Ambiente, nor Propiedad de Horizontal. None of your posturing or ridiculous statements takes into account having to deal with a municipal mentality where the major is GOD. If it was NOT for me and our attorney they would STILL not have ordinances on the books for propiedad de horizontal ..ONLY LAST MONTH DID THIS GET DONE after working on it for almost 2 years with them....and there is NOTHING that can be done to speed them up, unless of course you sue them, which would be such a great benefit to your investment now wouldn't it?

You speak of master schematic plans like the engineers here do it like in Canada and the states...most developments are approved from drawings on a napkin or no approvals at all like Jama Campay who have NO APPROVALS from the municipality of Jama and have only given out a few escrituras to date after being in production for over 8 years. DO NOT ASSUME YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PROCESS OR PROCEDURE HERE, I had my attorney working on getting approvals for 18 months before I got here, paid thousands for nothing. Once I got here I had them in 5 months...of course though she never told me she had sued Jama and the mayor so he was not going to do ANYTHING FOR US because of HER. Again...YOU HAVE NO IDEA what it takes to do something like this here.

So, show me your proof that I have failed to live up to my obligations contractually or otherwise with you.

There is electricity (sub-terranean) to your lot along with water piping being done from our large cisterna at the top of VP. You refuse to believe this yet its there but you haven't been here to see it and Mr. Lomax can not get into VP to check on it for you so you assume it does not exist.

Water supply is NOT a requirement since there is no municipal system and we are rural designation. IT IS ME that decided to do something for ALL the owners....NOT A REQUIREMENT to put in a system.
We dug and drilled wells, ...actually 3 of them, 2 hand dug to 10 meters and one drilled to 60 meters to make sure we had water on property or close by. WE have water under and on VP to utilize...and we have been working on a system possibility with CenAqua for all of Tasaste since they came to us. The major also has money to put in a well field and we have offered him some land if he will do that within VP...as always I am working for the BEST for VP. WE have plenty of water now with the esteros we have on property and the best one is where we are taking from now...our internal system holds 450 M3 of water...each house can have up to an 8 M3 cisterna too which would make the entire first phase hold appx 850 M3 at any given time. Although it is ok to drink (my men do it), I don't recommend it even though we treat it....but bottled is cheap and works well as do filtering systems with RO and UV for individual homes. We have checked on many different types of systems including desal...but the costs are prohibitive since ALL the owners within VP will have to pay for their water and the maintenance of the system or systems put in...so YES Mr. Carey, I am looking at it from a cost versus reward standpoint and a cost in the future standpoint for everyone. Even municipal water systems here like the one in Jama have NO water in them to speak of...ask the residents of Coco Beach Village who have to still get water trucked in even though there is a system in place that they were supposed to be hooked up to. So here I am trying to make the very best system that we can and yet instead of you being happy about it you just have to push your agenda and give me grief over it continuously

Do you know there is no such thing as a master drainage plan here??!! Even Jama does not have one in place nor have they built culverts and underground drainage, nor has any development other than us to date. We have done all the soil studies as you know...we even did one for YOU when our engineers were here. Your asinine and ridiculous demands are ludicrous at best....childish at worst just because you refuse to do what ever diligence you feel you need to do now after the fact that you purchased.

I explained ALL of this AD NAUSEUM to you in dozens of emails and can supply them to you if you wish...you just don't like being told NO and your inner child won't allow you to back down now.....so
PROVE YOUR ALLEGATIONS for all to see!!! That is what I DEMAND!! Oh yes and I don't have to supply you with any of these amenities until you build in 2016 and you had me put that into your escritura....so what the hell is the problem here? You just want to see all my internal docs from my business and you are not going to get them...period!
But NO to you means WAR as your email states!

larryp

larryp
  11/2/2013 15:30 EST

Nice try George....when you are a client you can have the information you are asking about just like Mr. Carey can get...matter of fact you can probably get it from the municipio as well...just have your attorney ask them for it, heck you might even be able to get it on a CD. Your statement of "seeing" the condition of the car is appropriate...come on down and SEE for yourself George...why would you believe paperwork that could be bought here or filed without it actually being done? Since you have been so kind to me and now especially in your offer...I will make one to you. You get to Ecuador and I will get you from Manta and host you for as long as you like to come and do a complete overview of Vista Pacifica and other developments in the area...this way you can actually write something with authority and the "facts" of being on the ground and seeing it for yourself. We can even go to the municipality together and go over everything...I mean you are moving to Ecuador anyway..soon, right?

larryp

Physician
  11/2/2013 15:48 EST

WHAT A COLOSSAL WASTE OF A GOOD ADVISE COLUMN FOR EX PATS. YOU REAL ESTATE GUYS SHOULD TAKE THIS WARFARE SOMEWHERE ELSE. [email protected]

george6900
  11/2/2013 16:03 EST

Larry, I tried, but I will now just have to listen to what everyone else says. Hope you change your mind.

When you put something up for sale to the public you have a responsibility to give out reasonable information to everyone. You are not being forthright with that information. Shame on you Larry. It does not make sense to think that someone would buy your product without all the information that I have asked for. It does not make sense that someone would even come out to look at your project without giving them the information that I have asked for.

I have been in sales and marketing for 45 years and I have never seen it done this way. Good luck to you.

I have been in land development for 25 years, and I have never seen it done this way. Good luck to you.

And to anyone reading this. Good luck to you. Take all of this for what it is worth. I for one am done with it... It is all just non-sense from where I am sitting.

And as always, because my mama raised me right, good luck to you Larry.

smilinfred
  11/2/2013 16:04 EST

Larry
It seems to me that the poster posting under EcuadorGeorge has asked some reasonable questions that any principled developer could answer clearly without any problem. If everything truly is straight with your development, the answer to those questions would go a long way toward clearing your name and the situation that seems to exist between you and your disaffected buyers. That being the case, it would eliminate a cloud of suspicion that cannot help but be hurting your sales and reputation.
It's a pretty simple opportunity to help yourself, where threats, bluster, and personal attacks can only hurt your situation. Why not just answer them?

PRCountry
  11/2/2013 17:05 EST

Larry,

I could respond with your unprofessional emails to
us too but I am better than that! Those comments were not threats but promises to questions being asked and trying to force the issue. You did a fine job thereafter didn’t you and selling yourself up to today. Banned from many forums and exposed to others throughout Ecuador. They have made their opinions of you themselves!!!!!! Why do you group me with others, I am here solely asking the same questions you have partially answered now, and for that THANK YOU! Finally, we are communicating and that is a start and hopefully a change in your appearance as the developer of Vista Pacifica. We truly hope so going forward........

You state, “so, show me your proof that I have failed to live up to my obligations contractually or otherwise with you”? Well, I believe a sustainable and reliable water system/source with adequate gallons per minute for all the public cisteras, and home private cisterns gallonages are a start don’t you agree? You talk strongly about the need to have WATER in your advertisings and emails but now you state “water supply is NOT a requirement since there is no municipal system and we are rural designation. IT IS ME that decided to do something for ALL the owners....NOT A REQUIREMENT to put in a system”...... really? Here is a part of our registered VP contract clause two stating....” All lots within Phase I of the Urbanization Vista Pacifica will be serviced with potable water and electrical service through underground conduit to each owner’s lot line. All lot owners understand and agree that a monthly usage/service charges for said service and usages will be borne by the lot owner/home owner to any company or governmental agency that has control over said services. Any connections will be to the requirements of the Urbanization Vista Pacifica.” You may want to re-evaluate that thought and stance.

I truly reaiize it is difficult dealing with what developers have to deal with but that is your job in leading the team of Vista Pacifica isn’t it? So keep pushing forward. NOW, I will back down and wait quietly to see how Vista Pacifica progresses in the short and longer term. No WAR from my part unless warranted.

Gracias

larryp
  11/2/2013 17:15 EST

Good advice Fred...and I HAVE, over and over again. Since you don't know what it takes to develop here, and if you do please shed some light on that.
My financial information is private, period and I have spent a ton of my own money here...matter of fact I was well under way before I sold anything just with the studies alone...spent a lot of time, energy and all MY OWN money beginning this project...never had an investor and never needed nor wanted one.
Why do you think he wants my personal and company financial records since he is a liar to begin with. Just like he tried to coerce me into making all those concessions he demanded in the CC & R's with statements like..."once we get this done I will be your best advertiser"...but then when it didn't go his way his statement to me was..."I can be your worst enemy"...and there you have it. I have never responded well to threats and can stand the publicity since there is nothing to hide and if you knew anything about the law here you would know what I was talking about.
Just because you and others think I MUST do something that makes you happy...don't expect me to roll over and do it. You seem to think this has just happened...it has been going on for a long time so you don't know the entire story either...just what some crazy gringo has stated...pretty simple really, if HE HAS THIS ISSUE, let him PROVE IT....so did you ask him to do that Fred? I didn't think so.....I HAVE CHALLENGED HIM TO PROVE IT and so have others on this forum.....so until he does he gets nothing from me and neither do you or anyone else...once he presents his PROOF I will then begin to disseminate the proper documents to refute.
This is NOT my advertising venue of choice and I have only once done that in response to Susans ridiculous post. And just for the record I have been here longer than a "few months", you would think the moderator would know.
By the way... EcuadorGeorge is a friend of Mr. Carey and they collude together...check out the questions they have both asked....how do you think they got to be so similar?

larryp

larryp
  11/2/2013 18:07 EST

Ahh yes...a reporter that doesn't want the facts and to see for themselves ...interesting!?...just because you came up with a set of questions (that I have answered over and over again to my clients) to make yourself happy does not mean I or anyone would accept them...but since you wanted to write a story...how could you pass up an opportunity that you were just offered George? You are moving to Ecuador according to your blog and statements....so I will take care of all your transportation once here and you can actually SEE what you are asking rather than accept some engineering CAD's as proof of what has been done and what is being done....seems that is very hard for some to grasp, but since you are a developer (from your story) I would expect you to jump all over that. That will put it to bed once and for all....then you could write with the authority of the facts. Mr. Carey was offered the same thing and even offered to have a buy back...but of course it all came down to money or should I say...his greed wanting double what he paid...maybe you should all have an issue with that. Oh yes and he paid $20 M2 for a gorgeous over half acre lot with the most gorgeous views of the Pacific ocean in a private community, gated, guarded, private roads, underground electrical and a private water system. What he paid is a matter of public record. Our estate sized serviced lots start at $17 M2 and go to $38 M2. Find that anywhere else in Ecuador on the coast. ...report back anything you find that can even come close. I am not afraid to go head to head with you or anyone else that has developed or is developing in Ecuador, and all your posturing will not change that. Good luck to you with your move to Cuenca ...maybe once you are here you will change your mind and come to the coast for a visit to report exactly what you find. I will be here waiting if you decide to do that George.

Matter of fact my offer stands for anyone that wants to do that and then write about it from an authoritative factual account that is not biased to either side of this issue, anyone? I will pick you up in Manta and we will tour the different developments along the coast...you can ask all the questions you wish and see everything for yourself. The quicker the better so no one can say I all of a sudden had underground electrical put in, which takes approvals and inspections by CNEL. If a bunch of you want to come I will get us a bus.

larryp
  11/2/2013 19:06 EST

You have been answered over and over again Mr. Carey.

That was a threat and you know it, plain and simple and you have carried it out....so there will be consequences as you were offered a chance to recant but refused...want me to send you a copy of your letter back to my attorney that sent you a demand to cease and desist? Your response was "not only will we not cease and desist, we will continue until we get satisfaction" (something to that effect, I am not going to go find it right now but certainly can if you would like to see it).

I was not banned from any forum or forums...EE with Gerard at the helm is a joke since you and your friends all barraged him with your so called complaints but offered no proof...he backed down and removed me (later he offered me back on but I refused)...I took myself off of RDS since you and your friends did the same thing there...but you just tried to do it with Moving to Ecuador and the moderator kicked you off instead, which I find very amusing, along with Mr. Lomax, Mr. Papania and....yup you guessed it...the world famous (in his mind) EcuadorGeorge and all of you had some very nasty things to say about that nice lady who has Cancer and who is thinking about moving to Ecuador and came up with a group that does not allow this type of crap to go on, but she would not be intimidated and bullied by you and your friends even when you all messaged her your lies (I have the copies and it will serve as more evidence), matter of fact I have everyones messages that all your friends NOT CLIENTS ...wrote, so I hope everyone is ready again!!

ARE YOU SERIOUS...THAT IS YOUR PROOF??, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!

The water statement is ON YOUR ESCRITURA Mr. Carey, that was my GUARANTEE since its a legal document filed with the property registrar and municipality that I was supplying water even though I HAVE NO REQUIREMENT TO DO SO by law....for gods sake man...you got everything you wanted...even sent me a thank you email for working with you, then this garbage....but you started something you just don't get to walk away from with a cursory, oops, ok I will back off now. You and I are going to war, I will NOT back down or off of you now, unless........

SHOW REAL PROOF OR APOLOGIZE RIGHT HERE AND NOW, RECANT ALL THAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN ON EVERY FORUM AND THEN WE CAN BEGIN THE HEALING PROCESS .....PERIOD!!, or get prepared to spend a whole lot of money...just like your friends did...it's really a simple matter...just accept you were wrong in doing it the way you did it, wanted revenge for not getting your way and this can all go away...trust me when I tell you, I will sue you over and over again or wait until you want to build which will take you way out of your time frame to build, it will cost you a ton of money and take years...I will MAKE sure of it. That is NOT a threat but a truth!! I warned you not to play this game just like I warned your friends. YOU got more than just about anyone in VP did but your lies WILL STOP NOW!!!

larryp

george6900
  11/2/2013 20:48 EST

Darn, I wasn't going to say anything else out of respect for my poor dead mother, she always told me to be polite and never to play with other if they were in the gutter.

But then I thought of my poor dead father. He was a mans man. He worked at McDonald Douglas on the Saturn 5 rocket ship. He was a pretty smart guy and he alway said to be polite but also to never back down from a fight.

Now I personally do not see this as a fight, but he would have. And I know he would have been proud of me for saying...

"F*ck You Larry...."

george6900
  11/2/2013 20:49 EST

Darn, I wasn't going to say anything else out of respect for my poor dead mother, she taught me to be polite and never to play with others if they were in or near the gutter.

But then I thought of my poor dead father. He was a man's man. He worked at McDonald Douglas on the Saturn 5 rocket ship. He was a pretty smart guy and he alway said to be polite but to never back down from a fight.

Now I personally do not see this as a fight, but he would have. And I know he would have been proud of me for saying...

"F*ck You Larry...."

larryp
  11/2/2013 21:20 EST

Gosh George did your buddies fabulously horrific evidence against me (putting my guarantee in writing, I mean how nefarious can one developer be?) just take the entire wind out of your sails big boy or was it that I called you out to gather the truth for yourself but your buddy just proved if for EVERYONE how stupid his antics are and you were for believing him...lies always have a way of finding the truth and liars are a dime a dozen...I would run and slink away too George if I had believed a big blow hard that just proved himself to be completely without any substance to go on the internet with. Bet you feel pretty silly but it's ok, this too shall pass. Oh yes, I almost forgot...that wonderful retort of "F*ck You Larry...."...bet your dead mom would be so proud of her son. Now as far as your dad goes....bet he would have been proud of me too since I don't back down from a fight either...so just maybe we are more alike than you think...so with that.."F*ck You Too Geoge"

PRCountry
  11/2/2013 21:59 EST

larry, your lack of professionalism as a struggling REMAX real estate agent, developer and business entrepreneur never ceases to amaze me! However, it’s so nice that you show your true colours here for all to see and make their own honest conclusions. Your outright lies, lies by omission are duly noted but this is not the place to disclose them is it. Some things never change with you.

See you on the mountain of VP maybe very soon. Remember, I never truly show my hand and I TRIED TO SETTLE THIS PROFESSIONALLY IN A RESPECTABLE FASHION! This concludes my responses to your rants and tirades.

BUYERS BEWARE and back to the post on Real Estate Brokers!!!!!!!

larryp
  11/2/2013 22:37 EST

Typical response from someone that only has one agenda on their mind Carey...lets see what happens when you get here partner. You have lied your way into a huge issue and it will be my pleasure to put you exactly where you belong, lets just see if it will be on VP or not.

Loved the BIG evidence you supplied against me there Carey...a legal document that I put together for you to prove to you that I was doing exactly what I STATED I was going to do...OHHHH the horror of it all...you are and have always been a huge ass and EVERYONE just got to see it for themselves exactly what and WHO you are pal...its a shame your ego won't let you see that. See you soon, I hope, there is a little surprise waiting on you when you get here.

larryp

smilinfred
  11/2/2013 22:59 EST

Truly Amazing.

smilinfred
  11/2/2013 23:11 EST

When I started this thread, I had no knowledge of Larry, his project, or his disaffected customers. My thread certainly wasn't aimed at him. Perhaps it is a good thing that it did break into the open, however. Many statements were made, many of them really not very elegantly. Anyone reading the thread will make up their own mind about the situation. Ecuador is truly a buyer beware market for now. All we have is our own reputations for honest and ethical behavior. Once lost, it is almost impossible to regain. God bless

OceanHideaway
  11/3/2013 05:14 EST

Fred and our Forum members --

Mr. Pioli is one "real estate professional" -- and thankfully he is not the norm.

Nor is he or his broker/franchisee the norm for Re/Max in Ecuador -- which is an excellent and professional company which I highly reccomend.

Mr. Larry Pioli is however an example of the typeof individual who comes to Ecuador with big dreams to buy land, develop it and sell it on the "Gringo Market" and make a killing in real estate without knowledge of the customs and laws necessary prior to do so. His frustrations then become apparent as his customers seek satisfaction for their purchases and as we see here his personality flaws, reflected in his lack of professional behaviour and simple courtesy become quicly apparent.

Sadly, it is a story that is typical of developments -- you can read another story in Nicholas Crowder's book "100 Points to Consider before Moving or retiring to Ecuador: available on Amazon.com -- a good investment of $4.99 -

Ironically the customs and laws of the real estate market are in fact what is taught in the courses for CBR. The course is given in Spanish however, and Mr.Pioli doesn't speak the language. That also added to his lack of understanding and his mistakes and bad choices. Granted he learned at a cost -- probablly more than the $2500 for the realestateseminars and exam -- but that is no longer an issue.

It appears that Mr. Pioli has now learned a great deal about the necessary documentation for the sale of his lots on the land he purchased for development in 2008.

Unfortunatley, for his equally unaware buyers, he sold the lots to them before he had learned how to deed them ownership correctly and be able to begin to fulfill the promises he made to begin the construction of promised "amenities: necessary for habitation - water and electrric. "

Purchasers who paid for ownership of land therefore never recieved their escritura's until sometime after 2011, with assurances mades that water and electric would be in place in 4 to 4.5 years, ergo sometime prior to 2016. Whether even these assurances are in writing and filed so as to be enforceable is not confirmed, and whether there are funds to setthem in place is not confirmed,and the quality --- etc.

And there is some question as to whether the work has actually been started as Mr. Pioli is refusing to allow access to the development for the purpose of reviewing the status of the work, the calibre of the workers and adequacy of the materials.

And questions persist knowing that escritura were not available, did Mr. Pioli then continue to sell lots without fulling disclosing to the propsective purchasers the true time frame for receiving their title, and that water and electricity would be unabailable until 2015/16 at the earliest? Is that ethical -- is that the work of a professional -- did he provide truthful answers if questioned? or is it simply caveat emptor?

Has he been refusing contact with those individuals who purchased property from him and worse, threatening them with law suits and bodily harm as it appears so on this thread?

And a big question -- is Mr. Pioli using his position as a sales person with the very esteemed realestate company Re/max, Re/max International, and Re/max Ecuador as a shield to hide behind to as"proof" of his immunity from wrong doing and using his position with Re/Max and their reputation of the highest calibre of professionalism as proof of his own behavior being "ethical and professional behavior" -- under the belief that if he has not been "sanctioned or fired" by now he must therefore be doing okay?

Mr Pioli,and by extension Mr. Gale Harold, Jr. -- the franchise owner and broker of the Re/Max franchise under whiich Mr. Pioli works -- are a serious matter to be brought to the attention of Re/Max Ecuador.

It is evident that complaints have been made. Why were they never received by the appropriate parties? The parties are staining the respectable Re/max name.

failing to take action -- and withholding subsequent and then numerous complaint is showing a systematic attempt to cover up a problem of which Re/Max should have been aware --precisly because the individual in question -- Mr. Pioli -- was and is using the Re/max name to justify his innocence.

Mr. Pioli has done this so often has to now make his own name synonymous with the Re/Max name among Expats on the Coast and that can and will affect current and future franchisees and the decision of Expats to choose Re/max in their dealings. He has tainted the name.

Mr. Pioli has continued to hide behind the use of the re/max name and his broker the franchisee Gale harold Jr. has allowed, condoned and assisted him in dooing this to the detriment of the Re/max name repeatedly, systematically, notoriously and unconscionably through harrassment, threats, and lawsuits.

Mr. Pioli has performed the above openly and notoriously here on ExpatExchange.com which is a Public website available for viewing by any person without registration. According to records, Expat Exchange receives over 65,000 unique hits each month.

Mr. Pioli and Mr. Harold have together and separately against individuals and groups numerous times openly, publicly and notoriously on FaceBook on the Ecuador Expat page (which has over 2000 registered Expat members) and the Ruta del Sol page (which has over 700 registered Expat members members) which are closed groups but which infromation can be made available through email to any person requesting copies attacked as described above also using the Re/max name as a sheild to prove their professional integrity -- therby tainting the good name ofthe brand Re/max

The damage to the reputation of Re/Max, Re/Max International, and Re/Max Ecuador is tangible.

This should be addressed before the taint be allowed to affect the 120 franchise owners and the future franchise owners here in Ecuador.

Personally, I have every confidence that this entire matter will be addressed -- as all matters are here in Ecuador -- given time and with sufficient Faith.

vandtor
  11/3/2013 08:57 EST

This thread should also be a testament to newcomers that you should not buy or invest in property right away. You should rent first to get an idea of where you might want to live and to see what is available.

The business of building/construction are different here than what most are accustomed to.

This is a buyer beware atmosphere.

Ransom
  11/3/2013 09:19 EST

This makes everyone think all Expats will take advantage of others Expats. Not good..

swjane
  11/3/2013 10:44 EST

These comments constitute serious allegations and I suspect they will be settled in a Court of Law. Unless one is a party to these actions, there is no way of knowing what is true in this myriad of accusations. If these remarks are found to constitute slander and/or libel, is restitution to the damaged party(ies) then determined by The Court?

Lollygagger
  11/3/2013 12:15 EST

Why in the world would you add fuel to this wildfire???

swjane
  11/3/2013 12:31 EST

I am simply curious as to the legal consequences of one's actions.

larryp
  11/3/2013 12:33 EST

I am answering below each point made by our very own moderator Susan at the Ocean Hideaway since she is SO very informed about this entire situation although we have never spoken nor met........

Fred and our Forum members --

Mr. Pioli is one "real estate professional" -- and thankfully he is not the norm.

*Correct....and I have never considered myself the norm in any endeavour I have been involved in.

Nor is he or his broker/franchisee the norm for Re/Max in Ecuador -- which is an excellent and professional company which I highly reccomend.

*Correct, which is why I joined RE/MAX...they have an excellent training program along with a good code of ethics and being a world wide brand have name recognition.

Mr. Larry Pioli is however an example of the typeof individual who comes to Ecuador with big dreams to buy land, develop it and sell it on the "Gringo Market" and make a killing in real estate without knowledge of the customs and laws necessary prior to do so. His frustrations then become apparent as his customers seek satisfaction for their purchases and as we see here his personality flaws, reflected in his lack of professional behaviour and simple courtesy become quicly apparent.

*Incorrect, prices for fully serviced lots in Vista Pacifica are from $17 M2, to $38 M2...lowest priced on the coast of Ecuador. Did not come here to develop...came to retire, but things changed with everyone wanting some of the beautiful views we had, so since this was also one of my professions in the states it made sense to proceed...hired the best attorneys and engineers I could find at the beginning based on recommendations from publications and individuals.

Sadly, it is a story that is typical of developments -- you can read another story in Nicholas Crowder's book "100 Points to Consider before Moving or retiring to Ecuador: available on Amazon.com -- a good investment of $4.99 -

*Personally Mr. Crowder is a fear monger who puts doubt and fear into everyone to promote his security and or consultation business, in my opinion, however I am sure he is a friend of Susans since he is being recommended.

Ironically the customs and laws of the real estate market are in fact what is taught in the courses for CBR. The course is given in Spanish however, and Mr.Pioli doesn't speak the language. That also added to his lack of understanding and his mistakes and bad choices. Granted he learned at a cost -- probablly more than the $2500 for the realestateseminars and exam -- but that is no longer an issue.

*Incorrect, I hired the people that had experience in the law, namely attorneys that did this work for my development and there is NO LICENSE required to sell your own property in Ecuador. My spanish at the time was not the best so had interpreters with me...now a different story, although I still will use an interpreter for legal, accounting matters etc as I am NOT fluent and might not ever be.

It appears that Mr. Pioli has now learned a great deal about the necessary documentation for the sale of his lots on the land he purchased for development in 2008.

*Incorrect and Correct. We have successfully closed and registered many properties without the need for attorney, although we have one. Anytime you come to a different country it is a learning experience which has only given us the necessary info to go forward more efficiently. If you have learned nothing from being here Susan I pity you.

Unfortunatley, for his equally unaware buyers, he sold the lots to them before he had learned how to deed them ownership correctly and be able to begin to fulfill the promises he made to begin the construction of promised "amenities: necessary for habitation - water and electrric. "

*Incorrect, as you can sell property in a development while the process is ongoing for approvals which can take some time from 1 to 3 years is normal. We did it in 20 months but did not start our process until mid 2009. Final approvals were done in 2011 and escrituras were issued after that time ...each and every client understood this.

Purchasers who paid for ownership of land therefore never recieved their escritura's until sometime after 2011, with assurances mades that water and electric would be in place in 4 to 4.5 years, ergo sometime prior to 2016. Whether even these assurances are in writing and filed so as to be enforceable is not confirmed, and whether there are funds to setthem in place is not confirmed,and the quality --- etc.

*Incorrect...Escrituras could NOT be issued until the development was fully approved as an urbanization fully approved and registered by the government...all items that are necessary are being or have been addressed...including items finished such as underground electricity in phase 1 and water supply system along with private roads, landscaping, sales office, guard house, bodegas, dormitories etc.

And there is some question as to whether the work has actually been started as Mr. Pioli is refusing to allow access to the development for the purpose of reviewing the status of the work, the calibre of the workers and adequacy of the materials.

*Incorrect...video is on our facebook page as are photos of our progress for those that are not here, we are on site daily monday through friday and have been since 2009, excepting the 2 week mandatory paid vacation time for our workers. Vista Pacifica is a gated and guarded development and closed. Those that wish to come on property must make an appointment or come through our sales office. Every development that I visited in Ecuador that was gated and guarded you could not just walk into either. Not sure why this is hard to follow.

And questions persist knowing that escritura were not available, did Mr. Pioli then continue to sell lots without fulling disclosing to the propsective purchasers the true time frame for receiving their title, and that water and electricity would be unabailable until 2015/16 at the earliest? Is that ethical -- is that the work of a professional -- did he provide truthful answers if questioned? or is it simply caveat emptor?

*Again, completely incorrect.

Has he been refusing contact with those individuals who purchased property from him and worse, threatening them with law suits and bodily harm as it appears so on this thread?

*Incorrect, only Mr. Carey who we have a lawsuit pending...under advise of counsel no personal contact...only through forums where it is public record. There is no other client that we do not speak with unless it is warranted from a harassment or legal standpoint. There is NO rule or law that states we have to converse with those that are brow-beaters, harassers, lie or defame us....period.

And a big question -- is Mr. Pioli using his position as a sales person with the very esteemed realestate company Re/max, Re/max International, and Re/max Ecuador as a shield to hide behind to as"proof" of his immunity from wrong doing and using his position with Re/Max and their reputation of the highest calibre of professionalism as proof of his own behavior being "ethical and professional behavior" -- under the belief that if he has not been "sanctioned or fired" by now he must therefore be doing okay?

*Incorrect as I have only been associated with RE/MAX for a little over a year now. Point was, if RE/MAX received any detrimental proof they would have done something, isn't it evident..I asked for proof right here on this forum yet none was provided...My broker asked for proof to be sent to him directly...just because no one did is not his nor my responsibility. How can anyone not see that?

Mr Pioli,and by extension Mr. Gale Harold, Jr. -- the franchise owner and broker of the Re/Max franchise under whiich Mr. Pioli works -- are a serious matter to be brought to the attention of Re/Max Ecuador.

*RE/MAX Ecuador is fully aware of the situation as is RE/MAX corporate as evidenced by Mr. Carey's attempted complaint to them and their response since he published it here on this forum.

It is evident that complaints have been made. Why were they never received by the appropriate parties? The parties are staining the respectable Re/max name.

*They were and determined to not be true or anything that would warrant any action since nothing was done against our code of ethics...only complaint was by Mr. Carey, the rest were all by his friends that have had NO transactions nor could supply any proof to their allegations.

failing to take action -- and withholding subsequent and then numerous complaint is showing a systematic attempt to cover up a problem of which Re/Max should have been aware --precisly because the individual in question -- Mr. Pioli -- was and is using the Re/max name to justify his innocence.

*Incorrect...a complaint that is warranted and has any proof would have resulted in sanctions. RE/MAX is the largest real estate organization in the world..they will protect their brand.

Mr. Pioli has done this so often has to now make his own name synonymous with the Re/Max name among Expats on the Coast and that can and will affect current and future franchisees and the decision of Expats to choose Re/max in their dealings. He has tainted the name.

*Incorrect

Mr. Pioli has continued to hide behind the use of the re/max name and his broker the franchisee Gale harold Jr. has allowed, condoned and assisted him in dooing this to the detriment of the Re/max name repeatedly, systematically, notoriously and unconscionably through harrassment, threats, and lawsuits.

*Incorrect...harassment would be making statements continually that are false and misleading or emailing or calling someone repeatedly...none of that has been done by me..however it certainly has been done to me by others. The law is set up here to protect individuals and businesses from defamation, libel and slander and it is everyone's right to use it under the law..I used it and will continue to use the law on defamers....if you wouldn't that is your business.

Mr. Pioli has performed the above openly and notoriously here on ExpatExchange.com which is a Public website available for viewing by any person without registration. According to records, Expat Exchange receives over 65,000 unique hits each month.

*Incorrect and Correct, I have done nothing notorious, nefarious or any other word that Susan's mentality wishes to try and exploit. I am glad to know the amount of hits though as now perhaps 60,000 individuals can see the venomous and ridiculous posts by those with an agenda, including the moderator...Susan.

Mr. Pioli and Mr. Harold have together and separately against individuals and groups numerous times openly, publicly and notoriously on FaceBook on the Ecuador Expat page (which has over 2000 registered Expat members) and the Ruta del Sol page (which has over 700 registered Expat members members) which are closed groups but which infromation can be made available through email to any person requesting copies attacked as described above also using the Re/max name as a sheild to prove their professional integrity -- therby tainting the good name ofthe brand Re/max

*Incorrect...there were answers made to the lies being made along with my broker asking anyone to come forward with any evidence of any wrongdoing by me....you seem to forget...NO ONE DID!

The damage to the reputation of Re/Max, Re/Max International, and Re/Max Ecuador is tangible.

*Incorrect...there is only damage done to those that have and continue to lie and defame.

This should be addressed before the taint be allowed to affect the 120 franchise owners and the future franchise owners here in Ecuador.

*Incorrect, RE/MAX is represented in over 90 countries with over 100K agents.

Personally, I have every confidence that this entire matter will be addressed -- as all matters are here in Ecuador -- given time and with sufficient Faith.

*Correct....it is being addressed, it does not take faith, it takes taking action, which I have done but others have failed to do. There issue, but talk is cheap and with no evidence to present I guess it is rather hard to pursue anyone.


larryp

larryp
  11/3/2013 14:06 EST

Totally depends on one's actions swjane...there are pretty good laws here governing libel, slander and defamation...Correa won a landmark case against el universo newspaper to the tune of $40 million and now the law is pretty succinct in how the court follows it. He later gave up his award as his point was made. Honor, your name and reputation are taken quite heavily here...and although most gringos don't realize it, they can be held accountable for putting it out there in a public forum...some have to learn the hard way.

There are laws here that govern many different areas....but sometimes there is absolutely no teeth or governing body to report to to get action and unless criminal action by the government an individual may bring action on another individual. The process is rather long and involved though and it can get costly depending on the strength of the case itself. There is still corruption here, attorneys can be a part of the issue too and part of the problem not the solution especially when it comes to gringos...you know we are all filthy stinking rich and ripe for the picking, right? What might cost an Ecuadorian a couple hundred dollars might just cost a gringo a couple thousand. Lots of different scenarios but there is law...its just trying to get justice that takes time and money ...some things that some have and others don't. Here it is sometimes WHO you know and HOW much money you have that can win the case...not whether you can prove anything so many don't bother...ask an Ecuadorian what they think of the court system and justice here...pretty mind boggling.

You will not find the law to be as cut and dried as it is in the states and so many different procedures to follow and since there is no bar or reporting agency in reality...it is difficult to get sanctions against an attorney if the don't do their job. That is the reality of living in a different country but you sure should know the law and not flaunt it in your host country.

Anyone can bring an action against anyone else if they feel they have been wronged...and its possible to file both civilly and criminally on an individual...but you better have the proof and a good sound case to proceed or it is just an expense and they will take you around in circles for months, even the attorneys don't seem to know all the procedures and it can be left up to the interpretation of the judge in the case.

There are prisons and jails here and they have inmates so....something must be accountable for.

Hope that helps some. Others may have more information for you and if you have a specific question I can ask my attorney or put you in touch with someone that might be able to assist you.

larryp

Toad490
  11/3/2013 16:27 EST

Well I for one am sick of this bs and have unsubscibed from this forum.

smilinfred
  11/3/2013 16:29 EST

Larry
I will withhold my opinion of the characterization but it is clear to me that you have publicly accused all levels of the Ecuadorian government of being corrupt. I wonder what President Correa will think of that when it is brought to his attention. All of us expats are here at the sufferance of the Ecuadorian government, and I don't believe these kinds of issues are helpful to our continued welcome. I'll close (and this is my last post on this thread) with a parable.
Once upon a time, I was a young Airborne infantryman in the 101ST Airborne Div, a member of the 502nd Infantry. We had a mascot, an Eagle, who we kept in a cage about the size of a normal living room. He had a perch high up in the cage where he looked out over his domain.
He would only eat live prey, so about once a week we put a chicken in the cage. The Eagle would just ignore it, not being hungry yet. At first the chicken would cower afraid, but as time passed, the chicken would become more animated, ignoring the danger that was ignoring him. After awhile, the chicken would start prancing around, flapping his wings, and making a lot of noise. When brother eagle got tired of it, he would swoop down and knock the chicken flat. With one foot, he would grab the chicken's body, and put the other foot on the chicken's head. A simple twist, and it was all over. The eagle would usually fly up to his perch, and check that his domain was secure of the annoyance.
Then he would hop down and eat the carcass
I guess the moral is it is sometimes easy to forget when you are just a chicken in the domain of an eagle and get too annoying.

FreddyN
  11/3/2013 16:37 EST

This is so ridiculous you all sound like old hags.

larryp
  11/3/2013 17:39 EST

Fred...I certainly will not hold back on my characterization of your words...you are ignorant of the facts of business and legal life here. Please feel free to let President Correa know that I have been subjected to immense amounts of corruption in this country and yet I am still here contributing to the economy of this wonderful country...just because there is corruption at many levels does not mean I do not like it here..typical distortion of the facts as most gringos will do to safe their face when facts are brought to their attention and they can not admit that things just might be different here. Fred what do you hope to get out of these statements, an apology for the facts from me?...won't happen.
Regardless of what you THINK....I will hazard a guess that you are NOT IN BUSINESS here so could NOT POSSIBLY know what goes on...as normal you are a typical gringo with an attitude of superiority....and please don't use anyone else with a business experience here as an expert unless have done what I am doing since running a hostel is NOT developing property...although I would also bet that even Susan has seen, been a part of or knows someone that has been subjected to corruption in this country.

Ask around to see how many gringos are buying their drivers licenses instead of taking the course, the test and the eventual issuance legally of their license, hell I even know some Ecuadorians that just paid instead of taking the course...its easier and less time consuming for them since the course lasts for weeks and that is even if you have been driving like I have for over 40 years and in many different countries too.

Correa has addressed some of the corruption but it has NOT made it into smaller municipalities where the mayor is basically king and god and the Canton is run by their families who were put into power by them. You may believe what you wish, I speak in reality and live in it as well...the difference is I tell it just like it is...don't rosy it up for you and you can't handle it. So sorry for you, but sometimes the truth really does hurt.

We are all here at the sufferance of the government as you state, Correa knows his country is corrupt and at least he has made attempts and is doing something about it...so get off your high horse there Fred...come on down, open a business and after a while you can let everyone know exactly how it goes here...I will still be here waiting on you.

Here is another parable or fable if you will for you...it is of the "Boy who cried Wolf", perhaps you remember it from childhood...it is what many gringos do once they get here and realize it is vastly different, then cry about it to anyone that will listen...after a while, no one listens anymore...however facts will always stand the test of time.

Keep me and all of us informed of your completely clean business dealings here without ever being asked or demanded payment for an official to do their job...you better get Crowders last book...you might learn a thing or two...you might also like his other book...Culture Shock Ecuador...where he explains some things about a bribe to a government/airport official (if memory serves) and how he began to look at things differently after that.
Your sensitive nature might not make Ecuador a good fit for you Fred...sorry to say.

Good luck in your business endeavours in Ecuador.

larryp

smilinfred
  11/3/2013 17:46 EST

Larry
War and business life in multiple countries pretty well ended my sensitivity. I have, however, remained sensitive to the need to act honorably in my business dealings. Thank you for your good wishes for my success.

vandtor
  11/3/2013 18:52 EST

There are quite a few people crying wolf on this thread.

Again, this is what happens when one doesn't know the language or the culture, and yes small town politics are different from the big city.

larryp
  11/3/2013 19:15 EST

There is so much that does not translate well, especially coming from a different culture and society. So many things just don't seem to make any sense in the beginning ...sometimes they make sense later and other times they never do. So many things are done differently so doing it the way you used to is not an option if no one can either understand it or accept it. I learn every day here and have taught some as well and it is a balancing act. Many expats can not handle it and wind up leaving for many various reasons...but the most often reason I hear is that the expectations were not met. Who knows what research they did...but for every one of us that truly enjoys Ecuador and lives/works here, there is probably the same number that does not. No place will tick all the boxes for everyone...each of us gets to pick and take our responsibility for being right or wrong. Someone once said...Planes fly both ways...yes they do.

I could write a book on small town/municipality politics...WOW!

larryp

PRCountry
  11/3/2013 22:40 EST

At this time, I wish to express how sorry I am to Fred (who started this great thread on Real Estate brokers), TomKat (fellow VP owners now disillusioned with VP, larry pioli and has moved on to build elsewhere in Ecuador,presently), George, ebfarkas, charlene4047, Susan and all the other great people (including other good REMAX people here in EC) for larry pioli ‘s lack of class, unprofessionalism , taunts, vial, threats and more. He truly has no regard for REMAX’s professional code of ethics, conduct, business practices.and more for their agents! Could this be because there is no independent sanctioning of agents, no REMAX International oversight per their response letter to me shown earlier and pioli’s misrepresentation of that facts in his rebuttal to Susan’s last email claiming they do (RE/MAX, LLC is an international franchising organization that in Ecuador grants the right to license RE/MAX franchises to an independently owned and operated subfranchisor, RE/MAX Ecuador. The subfranchisor, in turn, grants to independent franchisees the right to operate RE/MAX real estate franchises. The franchisee has no contract or relationship with RE/MAX, LLC. The franchisee's only agreement is with the independent subfranchisor) or is it that, I protect you and you protect me between the broker, agent and subfranchisor mentality? Time will answer that question!

Secondly, I need to add facts to pioli’s rebuttal to Susan’s earlier post at 0514 AM. Before I start, earlier in this thread as to pioli’s questions to me, I was not totally forthcoming in my responses in baiting the trap and letting him rant and continue to expose himself. He took the bait and rambled on.

Susan stated....”Unfortunatley, for his equally unaware buyers, he sold the lots to them before he had learned how to deed them ownership correctly and be able to begin to fulfill the promises he made to begin the construction of promised "amenities: necessary for habitation - water and electrric. "

pioli stated “incorrect, as you can sell property in a development while the process is ongoing for approvals which can take some time from 1 to 3 years is normal. We did it in 20 months but did not start our process until mid 2009. Final approvals were done in (August) 2011 and escrituras were issued after that time ...each and every client understood this.”

I state, pioli NEVER DISCLOSED anything of the sort to us or TomKat ( they will testify to this in court) that the lots we were buying could not be deeded (escritura) and even worse, that Vista Pacifica did not have the required urbanization approval permits at that time! That would have been a huge flag/possiblr deal breaker and pioli knew that! Additionally, he didn’t disclose this either to a single divorced young lady (KS) who started to enter into a building contract in late 2010 and gave pioli in excess of $100k to build her NEW CUSTOM HOME knowing HE could not get the required approval permits to build as VP didn’t receive the development urbanization permits until August 2011 as pioli states. A short time later, KS couldn’t come to a house spec sign-off, etc. and asked for her $$$ back. pioli refused and said he had bought the building supplies already (total lies) and he cut off ALL communications with her (sound familiar?) and told her to communicate only with his lawyer(s) but didn’t provide any contact information. Here, a young mom sits without a deeded lot, custom home, future etc and out $100K+ and is totally disillusioned about Ecuador. Let me be absolutely clear here...he has her money and has had the use of it for a couple of years and SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT! At best, this is criminal FRAUD or at the very least a major breach in Real Estate CODE OF ETHICS today.... I have KS communication emails with pioli for investigation by REMAX and KS is willing to assist in any sanctions and more (she wants her $$$ back- will you give it back today larry?. SHAME ON YOU PIOLI AND THIS, AT THE VERY LEAST, IS A TOTAL BREACH ON THE REAL ESTATE CODE OF ETHICS and should be disciplined by his broker (Gail Harold) and/or the subfranchisor REMAX Ecuador in Quito- Esteban and Antonio Serrano. Will they investigate, read 1st paragraph last sentence?

Susan states, “Purchasers who paid for ownership of land therefore never recieved their escritura's until sometime after 2011, with assurances made that water and electric would be in place in 4 to 4.5 years, ergo sometime prior to 2016. Whether even these assurances are in writing and filed so as to be enforceable is not confirmed, and whether there are funds to set them in place is not confirmed, and the quality --- etc.”

*Incorrect...Escrituras could NOT be issued until the development was fully approved as an urbanization fully approved and registered by the government...all items that are necessary are being or have been addressed...including items finished such as underground electricity in phase 1 and water supply system along with private roads, landscaping, sales office, guard house, bodegas, dormitories etc.

I state, VP received approval permits for the development (urbanization)in August 2011 when pioli finally had the total VP Stage I area per the municipio’s requirements surveyed (he wanted GPS marking for each lot locations etc and they wanted standard survey markings/locators on a master survey map). It is true, we didn’t want to start building until 2016 but as pioli states VP is 40% sold. The registered contract doesn’t state amenities have until 2016 to be completed. In fact, with that number of lots sold I’m sure some clients want to build in the short term but can’t as there is no completed infrastructure or water inside of VP and up the mountain. Sure, the entrance may have electricity and the apartments under construction nearby. To answer pioli’s question earlier, why I asked so much money to potentially sell, well that was just a dig at him as he has a building lot he’s asking $297,900 (as of Nov., 2012) for Manzana D Lot 18... yes that is correct! So, not really wanting to sell, I gave an unrealistic price. I’m here to stay unless I get an offer from a client that is a great business decision..... but I won’t hold my breath and looking forward to the courts and polio’s convictions and court sanctions.

Susan states, “And there is some question as to whether the work has actually been started as Mr. Pioli is refusing to allow access to the development for the purpose of reviewing the status of the work, the calibre of the workers and adequacy of the materials.”

pioli states,”Incorrect...video is on our facebook page as are photos of our progress for those that are not here, we are on site daily monday through friday and have been since 2009, excepting the 2 week mandatory paid vacation time for our workers. Vista Pacifica is a gated and guarded development and closed. Those that wish to come on property must make an appointment or come through our sales office. Every development that I visited in Ecuador that was gated and guarded you could not just walk into either. Not sure why this is hard to follow.

And questions persist knowing that escritura were not available, did Mr. Pioli then continue to sell lots without fulling disclosing to the propsective purchasers the true time frame for receiving their title, and that water and electricity would be unabailable until 2015/16 at the earliest? Is that ethical -- is that the work of a professional -- did he provide truthful answers if questioned? or is it simply caveat emptor?

*Again, completely incorrect”

I state, yes look at the VP facebook information piece by piece. This is total smoke and mirrors! Little updated pictures and information and where there is- partial shots or videos. His video on the electrical infrastructure is comical, shows a trench for a few feet long then says infrastructure is nearly complete for the miles of roads up the mountain. Are we supposed to believe that? The part about full disclosure is a lie as I stated above and needs to be fully investigated by an independent authority!

Susan states, “And a big question -- is Mr. Pioli using his position as a sales person with the very esteemed real estate company Re/max, Re/max International, and Re/max Ecuador as a shield to hide behind to as"proof" of his immunity from wrong doing and using his position with Re/Max and their reputation of the highest calibre of professionalism as proof of his own behavior being "ethical and professional behavior" -- under the belief that if he has not been "sanctioned or fired" by now he must therefore be doing okay?”

pioli states. “Incorrect as I have only been associated with RE/MAX for a little over a year now. Point was, if RE/MAX received any detrimental proof they would have done something, isn't it evident..I asked for proof right here on this forum yet none was provided...My broker asked for proof to be sent to him directly...just because no one did is not his nor my responsibility. How can anyone not see that?”

I say, it’s that time and I have exposed you once more. When your broker asked for information I sent it to him as per my attached email clearly showing that... but yet NO INVESTIGATION by either your broker nor REMAX Ecuador....that I’m aware of! Now with new information on a potential fraud of a VP client(s)/future clients and continued breaches of the REMAX code of conduct and ethics, I wonder if they will investigate now? Or will this continue as the “horse and pony show”?

Susan. states “failing to take action -- and withholding subsequent and then numerous complaint is showing a systematic attempt to cover up a problem of which Re/Max should have been aware --precisly because the individual in question -- Mr. Pioli -- was and is using the Re/max name to justify his innocence.”

pioli states, “Incorrect...a complaint that is warranted and has any proof would have resulted in sanctions. RE/MAX is the largest real estate organization in the world..they will protect their brand.”

I say, you would think REMAX LLC would truly care but they give up that control per their attached email above and pioli, Gail and REMAX Ecuador know this!!!! They don’t feel threatened as there is no controlling body so they just ignore what they want! SHAME ON YOU PIOLI FOR INFORMING THE PUBLIC OTHERWISE AND KNOWING THOSE FACTS!

Lastly, larry pioli is fraudulently selling Vista Pacifica as having a Water source stating early in this thread “We dug and drilled wells, ...actually 3 of them, 2 hand dug to 10 meters and one drilled to 60 meters to make sure we had water on property or close by. WE have water under and on VP”. A TOTAL LIE TODAY, pioli sold the 60 metre well and one shallow hand dug well to a buyer not part of VP by mistake a couple of years ago. This professional developer sold the water source so VP has zero!!!!! However, he still advertises and states this lie! The new owner had the water tested and in fact what pioli was stating then that the well could supply VP with all the water necessary, in fact can only feed some 3-4 home maximum with sustaining gallons per minute year round. The other hand dug well, I’m told was given to the municipio as the agreement for approving urbanization permitting VP. Today, unless recently, VP has zero WATER!

This concludes my information on this very important thread. I hope the people in the know forward this information to REMAX Ecuador and beyond to hold pioli to task and the highest standands of professional conduct and code of ethics. He truly believes “when in Rome act like the Romans” when he freely talks about corruption in Ecuador by many! At this point, he truly believes he is untouchable as shown by his condescending attitude toward his clients and those on the forums...... time will tell if he is successful?

All the best!

larryp
  11/4/2013 15:20 EST

Mr. Carey, myself and Inmobiliaria Vista Pacifica S.A are waiting on your legal action notice service to our offices. You might want to include the Sucre crash of 1999 in it as well.

Feel free to have the denuncia served to us here in Bahia, or in Tasaste. If you need the addresses I will have my attorney send it to you so you don't waste to much time looking for it. We are real easy to find.

larryp

OceanHideaway
  11/9/2013 15:42 EST

From: Gale Harold

To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]

Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 11:23:39 AM

Be advised that I have closed my office on the Ecuadorian coast and that none of my previous agents are representing Re/Max Coast and Country.

TomKat
  11/9/2013 17:39 EST

OH NO !!!! The dreadful task of updating my Rolodex again ??? Guess I can't complain ... Those old business cards will make for good kindling !!!!

TomKat
  11/9/2013 17:39 EST

OH NO !!!! The dreadful task of updating my Rolodex again ??? Guess I can't complain ... Those old business cards will make for good kindling !!!!

vandtor
  11/9/2013 19:20 EST

the bigger issue might be that you still have a rolladex lol

TomKat
  11/9/2013 19:22 EST

There is only one (1) L in Rolodex ... LOL

vandtor
  11/9/2013 19:30 EST

I just messed that up all the way :)

pajohn6
  11/10/2013 05:38 EST

Hello everybody. I'm writing from Los Angeles, USA. I know nothing about real estate or regulations. I just happened on this site, condidering moving to Salinas, Equador. I've learned nothing here excecpt "buyer beware", oh and whoever this Larry P. Guy is...he's definitely an ass.

smilinfred
  11/10/2013 19:05 EST

PaJohn
There are a number of great expats in Salinas and nearby. Can hook you up with some if you like. Forget about this thread. This forum has a lot of good info, and there are a number of folks who will try to give you good info for all your questions.

songlo
  11/10/2013 19:46 EST

Going to be in Salinas Dec and part of Jan can you give us any expats to hook up with and to meet. Thanks

OceanHideaway
  11/10/2013 20:46 EST

There 4 Basic Things to look for in a good real estate sales professional inSalinas and anywhere in Ecuador.

1. You want a Licensed Corredor de Bienes Raices -- Someone who has the respect for the profession to take the time and spend the money required whether it is absolutely required by law at this time or not. Someone who therefore is up to date and has the proven knowledge of the buying and selling process, deeding process etc of real property in Ecuador at the present time. You don't want to be someone's learning experience. And you your real estate professional to be answerable to their peers.

2. Your licensed realtor should have the ability to speak Spanish fluently like a native -- You want a person who can speak directly with prospective sellers on your behalf (not forced to speak through their secretary, helper, assistant, etc). Some realtors are forced to fall back on their help to communicate in Spanish but when it comes to negotiating your contract, translating the terms, and explaining what you are agreeing to -- it is the person with the license you want to be able to rely on. Do not rely on an assistant -- that is someone who can dissappear into the night with your deposit. It happens. And if you ask at the local gringo hangouts in Salinas you will hear the stories. One real "estate" office claimed the assistants who took off with the funds to Quito ( $10,000) were working "independently" and it was not the responsibility of that office. There are cases in the works to try to retrieve those funds but it doesn;tlook good for the plaintiffs. Work with the licensed real estate broker or licensed sales person who speaks Spanish.

3. You want a broker with a real brick and mortar office -- with regular hours -- You want to be able to reach your broker, leave them a message, drop something at the office and not find the door closed, the place dark and no idea where everyone went. You do not want someone who can only meet with you at a bar or the local eatery because they don't have a real office.

4. You want a realtor who knows how to handle the transaction from beginning to closing. Your realtor should have the skills to review and handle closings and should have a track record of handling closings for other realtors -- and that means knowing how to review documents and recognize errors. Again Spanish is essential. In Ecuador the most respected realtors handle closings as well -- an attorney is not necessary but a trusted third party is acceptable to review the documentation prepared by the Notario of the Municipality of the Province (the Notario is similar to an Independent Clerk of Courts), A respected realtor can be this party and are requested to do so by other realtors. These are the realtors you want to work with. So ask your prospective realtor if they have done closings and how many closings they have handled themselves and of course for which realtors.

That should line you up with the top realtor professional in the field of INMOBILIARIA in Salinas in short order.

smilinfred
  11/11/2013 01:21 EST

Suggest you contact Ed Farkas on this forum, as well as Susan (Ocean Hideaway), Rebe in Olon as well. Also Andrea and Ralph Jones at Big Ralph's fantastic restaurant & Hostel in the San Lorenzo area of Salinas. Also recommend Kimberly Kagan ([email protected]), an honest real estate broker. These people have been in Ecuador for years, know everybody in the Salinas area, and can square you away. I thought I would be there in December but am unable to do so. Best of luck. I also believe a number of members of this blog will probably offer to meet you.

OceanHideaway
  11/11/2013 11:04 EST

Just be sure to ask those important 4 questions:

~ Are you licensed?
~ Do you speak Spanish like a native?
~ Do you have a real office?
~ Do you handle closings?

As Fred mentioned -- living here in Ecuador is alsso important -- have they been living here more than three years.

And talk with the local expat community to find out if there is any litigation pending against a realtor or those who worked with them.

Another place to hang out and ask questions is Will Taylor owner at Hostal Aqui ~ has been here for over 4 years and has seen them come and go ... he isn't "just a bartender"

Other places to go in Salinas that are gringo hangouts:
Marco at Dolar Pizza near Cevichelandia

Kim at SINs Disco and Bar in San Lorwenzo

Kevin & Molly at Happy Gringo by the LionsClub

Luccy at Luccy's Mexican behind Banco Pichincha on 2nd Street

Amanda at Common Grounds across from the San Lorenzo Church in San Lorenzo Plaza

Roberto at Gourmet Italiano -- upstairs from the San Lorenzo Plaza

are also local hang outs to meet up with the Gringo crowd -- Talkj to people and don't let their mistakes be your mistakes.

Cuencabound
  11/11/2013 15:23 EST

All great advice Susan. I would like to add that it is important to live in the community you have chosen for at least a year (longer is better) before you buy a home here. It will give you time to know that your choice of communities was right for you. You will have a feel for the local real estate market and hopefully avoid being scammed and you should know by then if Ecuador is really for you.

Expatsooner
  2/8/2017 01:42 EST

*Thread resurrection alert*

Just wondering how this all "played out", given that the last posts were from 2013...

Did the Estate in question get completed? I noticed in the thread the person who is developing the estate was suggesting that as Escituras were legally issued in 2011, that dwelling completion "would happen some 4-4.5 years from that point..."

That would mean that this should have happened sometime during 2015-16 (at the latest)?

Anyone?

windshadow
  2/8/2017 09:28 EST

He was called home to his heavenly home. May he rest in peace!
He sold his business to OH and is now living in N Korea.
His new address is Cuenca Carcel.
He deeded his properties to the same church as John Travolta.
He threw out all his business cards.
He is not a tranny living in Montinita.
He was on the ill fated flight 107.
Pick a headline that makes you feel good. lol

remoore2001
  2/8/2017 11:35 EST

Shortly after all this Remax closed it's coastal office.

OceanHideaway
  2/8/2017 12:30 EST

Yup...

ReMax booted this dude out and the office in Manta shut down.

The leading ReMax on the coast, by the way, is in Salinas: ReMax Pioneer.

Owned by Broker/Agent Amy Prisco who has been living here in Ecuador for almost 10 years. She is also the first N. American to get a real estate license on the coast (something they are all now doing) and she is fully bilingual.

You can contact her at:
593 04 277-1110
Or by mail at [email protected]

Expatsooner
  2/8/2017 16:22 EST

That's OK...I have a house already.

No, the question was more around what happened to the estate being talked about. Did it eventually get built? I only ask as that particular one (along with another large one near Bahia) seem to have experienced a few delays in construction (for various reasons), and I'm just curious to see what eventuated for them.

mckenzy
  2/9/2017 11:16 EST

Whew!! This thread has got to the the L-O-N-G-E-S-T thread in history for expat exchange. I gave up mid-way through it all. Exhausting!!

As someone who doesn't live in Ecuador yet, has visited and will be visiting again and perhaps move there in a couple years.... I have 4 words of advice:

RENT DO NOT BUY

I think you'll be much happier, less stressed and if it doesn't work out... you can get up and leave much easier!!

Expatsooner
  2/15/2017 04:13 EST

No, I believe the salient lesson is "buy built, rather than "yet-to-be-built".

If you buy in an established place, with (tangible) infrastructure (water, power, internet and so on), you're a step in the right direction.

Granted, there is an argument - for some people - to "try before you buy" (the sorts of people who move to a place hoping that it'll be "the same as what they left, and that zero adjustment will be necessary ")

Others will do a measure of research and decide that the place is worthy of their investment, of both time, money, and effort (to assimilate).

Kinda like some of those on this forum have done...

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