05713bot
12/3/2013 12:37 EST
I think you'd be hardpressed to nail down 4=5,000 No. Americans.
I think the real # is between 1200 & 2800. More importantly, the purchasing frenzy of properties by NA's has dropped off significantly as have the rental side of the ledger. I suppose someone with real estate interests wlll nix these comments but using a fairly good network of Cuencanos' builders & RE agents I find this assessment to be fairly accurate. take notice of household items for sale or ads for sharing containers back to the states and Canada. It seems that using 100% as a starting point that roughly 60% stay beyond the 6 month period and the remaining 40% exit well within the 6 month extended visa period.
Without a working knowledge of Spanish your are almost certainly a returnee casualty.
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OceanHideaway
12/3/2013 19:55 EST
Perhaps you should clarify that your statement is being made about the central area of Cuenca.
And you are correct that it is not possible to pinpoint the number of expats in Cuenca at any particular time.
Where you make the mistake however is in failing to consider that expats include those in areas outside Cuenca central and those who are not hanging out in the usual gringo enclaves that you see daily.
There is an interesting situation occurring with properties in Cuenca -- it is becoming more economical to rent then to purchase -- and it is a better choice for people on a fixed budget and for those who are not sure where they will end up and if they will in fact stay in Ecuador.
But you are pretty close to the mark on the numbers of those who come and stay for an extended period of 6 months to under a year --
Where you make your biggest error though is referring to those who move on is in referring to them as "casualties" -- they are not in anway and I find that a horrid statement to make about those people who have made a move to Ecuador and now chose to make another move ...they are people who are experiencing life and making choices, not settling, and doing what hey chose to do in spite of persons like you who hide behind computer generated computer "bot" names.
In other words those who made a choice to move to Ecuador and now chose to move on to another location are a whole lot more authentic then someone like say -- you.
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05713bot
12/4/2013 13:25 EST
WOW! 1st Marines don't hide anywhere. 2ndly, they arer casualties because they were sold bills of goods via the internet by shysters using blogs that promote costs of living and other sensitive issues that are generally linked with behind the scenes self promoting agendas. Most of them elderly and hoping for a better way of life with the little bit they have. Having spent 14 years in SA I can always tell those without a clue by there commentary.
Do me a favor don't respond with anymore chicanery or boisterous positions with self righteous positions.
They are casualties, I don't hide and the only opinionated person in this conversation is on your end
Have a so so life
Adios
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rodreego
12/4/2013 15:03 EST
Mr. Bot said: "they were sold bills of goods via the internet by shysters using blogs that promote costs of living and other sensitive issues that are generally linked with behind the scenes self promoting agendas."
AND...if they had taken just a little bit more time they would have found the Golden Rule of contemplating a move to Ecuador, "Caveat Emptor".
(You understand Semper Fi but just in case that means Buyer Beware).
It's all over the place, how could they have missed it?
What you describe is people falling into a trap of their own making by being the first to land without having made proper recon and suffering the expected number of casualties.
You are right to refer to them as casualties because by them being casual about an important move, they sat down in their own fire,
(I've run out of metaphors)
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remoore2001
12/4/2013 20:01 EST
Came here almost 5 yrs ago. The only Spanish I knew was cerveza. I think there is to much generalization that goes on about who come here and stay. I love it here and have not ever thought about going back to the US. Hell if people want to go back it just means they are not very adaptable.
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boatmax
12/4/2013 20:33 EST
05713bot; the population of US citizens in Ecuador was discussed extensively about a year ago. We have 2 reliable sources on this forum, who got their information direct from the US Embassy in Ecuador. As of a year ago, there was over 50,000 US citizens living in Ecuador. Of that number, over 5,000 US citizens living in Cuenca.
There are more immigrants every day, arriving in Ecuador. It is impossible at present to differentiate between gringo expats and repatriating Ecuadorians with US citizenships. A surprising fact is that there are more Eurpoean immigrants than from US and Canada. Those are not included in these numbers, but it is easy to see that the number of Europeans in Quito probably exceed those from US and Canada. Speaking of Canada, I have no numbers, but there is a huge number from Canada as well.
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OceanHideaway
12/4/2013 20:35 EST
Good point remoore... adaptability.
...very darwinian in retrospect.
By the way, I didn't know much Spanish either. Started coming here in 2006 and moved here permanently over 5 years ago. Learned Spanish...still learning it.
Yes adaptability that would be the word. Tenacity and flexibility also good words.
Res ipsa loquitor ...well heck this is Latin America and just keeping with the theme...
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05713bot
12/4/2013 21:42 EST
I'm on board with the beer and the staying, it's the empty verbiage these "long termers" spew that puts me off. I'm in SA 14 years and like you it took about 4 to become fluent. Fact is English is now second nature.
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05713bot
12/4/2013 21:48 EST
Thanks for the suppression fire. Your succinct and to the point. Without intel & homework most are casualties. That I am certain of.
"buyer beware"
Gunny
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dumluk
12/5/2013 10:38 EST
Good dialogue! Some interesting points and comments from all. Having lived for 23 yrs (on and off) in Costa Rica and Panama, I would be interested to know how most of you feel about the collective culture in Ecuador and the politics..........Here in Panama now, despite fluent Spanish, or maybe becuz of it, haha..........I have a hard time with both, and am looking for a more enlightened, more democratic, more benevolent and more quiet culture and politic. Appreciate any response from the old timers there thruout Ecuador..........................
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05713bot
12/5/2013 18:51 EST
Not in Panama, I am in Ecuador but not now, visiting Montevideo Uruguay and later this week over to Buenos Aeres. Sorry if I mispelled that.
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dumluk
12/6/2013 11:40 EST
101, Im in Chiriquí, just outside of David. My finca is upcountry about 30 min from David.............the most tranquilo part of Panama, probably.........but still, noisy and trashy, and govt. only pretends to help you.........You are on your own here..........If you have trouble like a land dispute with a Pana, then even tho you are the only title holder, the system will be more sympathetic to the Pana.........how is the judicial system in Ecuador? Any better?
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casadecuenca
12/6/2013 11:43 EST
I spent 3 weeks in Panama City in 2011-12 and found it to be a cesspool and much more expensive than Ecuador. That, plus 9 months of rain a year did not help.
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05713bot
12/6/2013 13:54 EST
dumluk, the legal system throughout SA is the same and does favor the home team. I can say though that recently it has begun to change. This is particularly true in Ecuador where their constitution gives those of us with Cedulla's and the right visa's the same rights.
For now?
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Hwy101
12/6/2013 17:00 EST
Monte Video is pricey & watch going over to Buenos Aires, lots of pick-pockets. Jet boat took about an hour.
@dumluk , had friends in same city, then they moved to Volcan -just a cross roads to me, on the way to North or Costa Rica. Some interesting Expats in Panama.
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Hwy101
12/6/2013 17:04 EST
@dumluk, forgot the politics: About the same here, much depends on who you know. And, don't you know, Gringos are Rich and can afford to lose...
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05713bot
12/6/2013 21:12 EST
It ain't America and they see us as just another European invader trying to colonize them again. Except now it's the Americans and Chinese.
To bad, it would be nice to not have to defend and be on guard.
None the less I am staying and holding the line.
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05713bot
12/6/2013 21:14 EST
Good stuff, thanks but I'm from Bklyn NY and 11 years in SE ASia. Any picker is in serious trouble. None the less on guard.
Oh right about costs!!
Tks
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USNseabee
1/3/2014 21:25 EST
I've been here for going on 12 years. I speak about as much Spanish as a 6 month old baby. I own my house that my wife and architect designed in a gated community North Guayaquil on Via La Costa. I returned to the states in 2009 and moved back here 1 1/2 years later. I'll be here until I get planed in the ground at the new cemetery on the Perimetral.
USNSEABEE
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BeachWriter
1/3/2014 23:34 EST
I can't speak to the situation in Cuenca but the expats in Salinas seem uniformly happy here. Life sometimes requires a return home but the folks here aren't leaving because they are unhappy with Ecuador.
Cuenca is a lot more heavily promoted, which may cause some people to have unrealistic expectations when they move there. It also has less favorable weather which affects some peoples attitudes.
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Lorne2
1/4/2014 17:50 EST
We love the weather in Cuenca. But that being said, one cannot retire on only in sun and sand. So many learn that lesson too late. Retirement is not a two week vacation...extended for 20 years.
Most brains need stimulation to be happy and Cuenca does that 24/7. The town does little or nothing in the way of promoting international publicity. It simply makes the biggest impact on even the most jaded travel writers.
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Lorne2
1/4/2014 18:10 EST
OceanHideway very close. There was a recent university study done by a German professor, finding that the gringo expat population of Cuenca is closer to 2500 than 5000-6000 that community (and its publication) so often claim. Accordingly their influence on Cuencanan prices has always been exaggerated. The highest percentage of new Cuenca residential construction purchased by expats has been 1.7% in any one year.
But leaving it at that would be myopic.The biggest driver of new Cuencanan real estate prices is returning Ecuadorians (who are not necessarily returning Cuencanos). There is also a healthy percentage of second homers from other SA countries and a new but growing trickle from Europe.
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casadecuenca
1/4/2014 18:10 EST
You are so correct Lorne, but we who live here and love it, have to keep it a Secret or the neighborhood will go all to hell!!
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Lorne2
1/4/2014 18:15 EST
"We have 2 reliable sources on this forum, who got their information direct from the US Embassy in Ecuador."
You feel that a US embassy, especially in a country where relations are strained, is a reliable source for local data?
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casadecuenca
1/4/2014 18:29 EST
Not a chance, if you do not register at the Embassy or Consulate, they do not know you are here and you are not required to register.
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Lorne2
1/5/2014 00:50 EST
"You are so correct Lorne, but we who live here and love it, have to keep it a Secret or the neighborhood will go all to hell!!"
Ominous signs. One turns around and finds MacDonalds! (sad sigh) Mind you, if the Cuencanan interpretation of a Big Mac turns out to be as brilliant as the Cuenca version of Pizza Hut, I'll eat it!
I simply can't get over the food here. Puts Provence to shame.
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withoutego
1/5/2014 02:19 EST
As for people leaving...
I think the problems of retirement are being added to the problems of changing cultural environments. Each is a big challenge, both are total immersion.
If someone sits on their hands with nothing to do, or doing nothing, in Cuenca...they might blame Ecuador. With no employer to manage their time and energy they drift. South America is just the location of their maladjustment to a slower life.
We old people (68 in a couple of months) need to keep the brain working. Learning Spanish is a great way to do that. Learning to enjoy a new culture keeps the mind challenged. Learn a word a day, in three years that's nearly a thousand.
All day for your hobby in retirement. Don't have a hobby? There is your problem. Ecuador is not going to fill the void left by your missing job. The void is maybe starker here, fewer distractions than in the states, fewer we are familiar with.
The problem is not the US or Ecuador, its you, its your ability to change and adapt and your curiosity. Radical change isn't easy at age "sixty-something" if we've never needed to drastically change our lives before.
We need some person in the social sciences to come up with a 50 question test for prospective expats, for their own evaluation of their ability to adapt. Something to yank those rose colored glasses off their faces.
Seventy percent is a high failure rate for transplanting. The gringo return over three years might be that high.
sinego
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casadecuenca
1/5/2014 08:23 EST
You are correct that a drastic lifestyle change is not possible for everyone--especially if you do not have something to occupy your time. It's not really too different from someone who has worked all their life and suddenly has nothing to do--it's especially dangerous for workaholics, they often don't make the transition and die early or they drive their spouse crazy.
Adapting to Ecuador's culture and differences from the US was not hard, but I have never really been a couch potato. I have been in my own businesses since 1970. I retired in 1992, 1999 and 2010. Then I moved to Cuenca and went bananas with nothing to do. So I opened a guesthouse in June of 2012. It satisfies two things I like to do; entertain and cook.
Fortunately at age 73, I am in great health, I walk everyday and have lost about 45 lbs in the two years I have been in Cuenca and I take no prescription drugs at all, thanks to my parent's good genes. I am a happy camper in Cuenca but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
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nancylaleau
1/6/2014 07:14 EST
p[izza... I"ll definitely have to pick your brain on this... we (my Cuencan friend and I) had to go to Azogues to find a decent pizza...in what was basically an icecream parlor. --nancy
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casadecuenca
1/6/2014 07:18 EST
Nancy; you missed the best pizza in Cuenca; Fabiano's on Presidente Cordova and Mariano Cueva. The eggplant parm is to die for.
Malcolm
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Lorne2
1/6/2014 08:36 EST
I have lived long enough to watch pizza grow from a common kiosk snack found in Italy to a world phenomena...like bagels. Sadly, or happily, (depending on your taste) few of the current expressions bear any resemblance to the originals.
Let us simply describe "pizza" as the international habit of throwing different things on a piece of bread dough with different thicknesses and leavening. The many variations on that theme we have found in Ecuador are delightful. But what specific pizza expression are you looking for?
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OceanHideaway
1/7/2014 16:00 EST
Pizza is easy.... it was bringing good bagels to Ecuador that really made life good...
...and that's all I am saying on the subject ...
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