Hi Tarhastha...may I ask where you're from and why you would like an answer on this essay?

I give it a 40/60. 40 percent incorrect and 60 percent correct. It would take too long to explain why..at least on a Sunday night at 10:30. Dogmatism, Extremes, biases, slander, speculation.... all of these are the errors that discredit him. Still, I'm giving him 60 percent correct--- for the big picture.

Remoore's been calling wolf for over two years. Well, wolf has arrived. For the coddled Expats yapping about what works for them in Ecuador and what doesn't...well, now these lines will become ever more clear. And more numerous. (I'm not calling anyone on this forum coddled..heck no..we're tough as nails, right?).

I hope all of Correas hard work and achievements do not evaporate under the heat. He's not a humble man and if he doesn't compromise, there will be serious destabilization. Not just the parros and inconvenient road closures..... But other fun stuff that we can't go into for the moment.

Pretending that an inheritance tax won't affect anyone but the rich, is a joke Plus, 70 percent taxes on anything is unfair...and in principle, even the poor can see this.

Ecuadorians are not Russians. .

And "very little taxes" for the 60- 100,000 home is probably NOT "very little" to the guy that's having to pay it--for the first time ever. This is the middle class now, which would include all of those...maybe poorer..relatives of the middle class. Even if it's only 5% that's 5 thousand dollars of something that's traditionally been considered off limits by the government.

The US being BEHIND it? Again? Too much drama. The US is probably just FOR it, not BEHIND it. The wealthy in Ecuador have enough money to bank roll their own protests and propaganda's. I'm sure, the wealthy were pretty firm in their position against a 70% tax without needing any opinion at all from US..

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Tarhastha,
Let me say that I also am curious as to who you are , where you come from, and why do you want comments on the essay ?
I do agree with livefreebestrong that the essay gets 60% correct and the rest is information and misinformation stemming from a particular political bias.
While the writer is, obviously, enamored with the 'revolution' in Venezuela under Chavez and attempts to draw parallels between Correa's and Chavez there is one major difference that has absolutely nothing to do with outside forces attempting to destabilize their governments.
Venezuela's social revolution was and is horribly mismanaged. While Chavez traded on his considerable charisma, he didn't have the intellectual and economic savvy ( my opinion ) to make it work. Correa, on the other hand, though imitating and idolizing Chavez, has the intellect, the training and background in Economics and the human resources to make things happen in a positive way.

Livefreebestrong's assessment of the current situation here and the thinking of the 'average' man is spot on.
I, likewise ,hope that ego and intransigence doesn't get in the way of economics and that compromise. Correa's desire for another presidential term is a worrisome flashpoint for many Ecuadorians who fear a dictatorship cleverly disguised as democracy, as seen in Venezuela.
To paraphrase Betty Davis " Hang on, baby, we might be in for a bumpy ride. "
But I am optimistic enough to say, "This, too, shall pass. "

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Hello livefreebstrong,
Thanks very much for your reply.
I'm Canadian, and I'm thinking very seriously about starting to semi retire in SA.
Both Ecuador and Uruguay appeal to me, although I am yet to visit them.
Liberty, transparency, stability, quality of healthcare, education, blue skys (I'm so very tired of the Geo-engineering here) and cost of living are things that I consider of importance when researching where to retire to.
Kind regards,
Paul

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Thanks Kmore. And a "spot on" back to you...

It's getting shaky out there but like you said, this too will pass.

Thanks for the introduction Tarshatha.

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Hello kmoriarty45,

Thanks very much for your reply.

My name is Paul and I'm Canadian, and I'm interested in semi retiring in SA. If you would like to know more about me please feel free to PM me.

With regards to the essay, it has left me feeling (a little) less secure in exploring Ecuador as a place to retire. Stability is something I highly value and must consider before setting down roots. The essay was clearly biased, but not being local makes it difficult for me to determine the extent of it's wholeness and accuracy.

Ecuador's seems to be on the right track and I'm very happy for the Ecuadorian people, it would be a shame to turn it back around. One thing that does concern me is Ecuador's peg to the USD and the country's move to a digital currency.

Kind Regards,

Paul

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Choosing an expat health insurance provider is an important decision. Get a quote from our trusted expat health insurance partner, CIGNA. With Cigna Global Health Options, you can create an international health insurance plan that's perfectly tailored for the needs of you and your family.

I appreciate the well thought out, eloquent responses.. Is this President the guy whose at war with comedian John Oliver? Because that guy does appear very vain and rather ludicrous.

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Yes, Kirkaja.....

Those two episodes were funny with Meyers was funny, Disrespectful, but funny.

Unfortunately, humor is a huge weakness for me. Or strength..whichever way you want to look at it.

But this is Ecuador's culture. Being hugged by this clown, an adored persona in Ecuador... as well as responding to people on twitter as if he knew them personally..this is endearing to his countrymen. It's hometown here.

Some parts of John Meyers show made me cringe, some forced me laugh out loud. But here's a fact. John Myer and his writers, don't know squat about Ecuador.

But that's not his job.


President Obama and his wife have appeared on fiction TV shows (was it Nashville?), daytime talk shows, and night time talk shows. What's the difference between President Obama and President Correa, except for production costs and geography?

I'm old school so I don't like any world leader (for whatever that term is worth) playing the part of movie stars or celebrities. But it's a changing world and popularity has become more important than dignity.

Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, Fox, CNN...I do NOT care.

I'm speaking of people who have the enormous responsibility of deciding human fate.

I'd much rather imagine them reading a book than joking around with a comedian on TV. I miss that illusion.

Yes. I know that Politicians don't really read books. But they used to pretend that they did.

Getting back to Correa. What was he supposed to do? Punch TIKO TIKO in the face and stop the hug before it was started?

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@Tarshatha:

Been to Uruguay, it is Expensive & Montevideo is cold in the winter (on the Atlantic).

There is an exchange rate. And they like to round things UP. Even the Banks.

Do you Speak Spanish?

There the apartments can be charged more if they look 'Pretty.' Side walks are not good.

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Oh, and I forgot, they drive like they WANT you to hit them.

Almost as bad as Ecuador.

And when you RENT a car they will COPY everything on the card.

You will want to Cancel that card.

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Getting a hug fro Tiko Tiko here was the equivalent of a politician being embraced by Bozo or Captain Kangaroo in the States.
I was in working in Europe when Richard Nixon ( not exactly universally loved at the time ) went on Laugh In and uttered those immortal words "Sock It To Me !" in an effort to appear more human.
" Say Goodnight Dick ..."

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Meyer? So he's got fracas going with another international comedian? All this fuss over Tiko twice? Seriously I can understand his greater challenge which I assume might include a bit of redistributing wealth in an underdeveloped country with some resources. I could see Tiko as a valuable asset to that ends. It's the fact that he bothers to address insignificant foreign comedians and anybody who might be trolling him online or on twitter. That is truly funny.. Let's let the world citizenry see this and decide for themselves. My vote is Correa no, Tiko Siii!
Yes El Presidente, There I've said it. You know where to find me. Right here on the Expat Exchange!
Point/Counterpoint

https://youtu.be/nMdDykp_KXs
https://youtu.be/Hbo954NmHH4

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Dr. Correa has been known to be a bit thinned skinned about humor directed at him. He does not like to be the butt of political satire inside or outside the country.
It is a shame that for all the good things he has done for this country that he is unable to laugh at himself.

But then few politicians can.

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Kikgaja...

Our El President is a character. No one is disputing that. But you should judge the past 20 years of Ecuador's political history before you pass judgement on his tactics. The common people of Ecuador love the way Correa acts like we're all in the same living room and they especially love the down to earth way he deals with others.

They didn't think twice about Tiko Tiko hugging him or his engaging a young kid who stated publicly that he wanted to kill him.

People from your neck of the woods (and mine) find the situation inconceivable. And that's okay. They don't get it. How could they? But those who know Ecuador, DO get it. Both sides.

The funny Meyer side who's making Correa's actions look absurd by placing him on the same plain as politicians from large developed countries-- And we see the other side, which is the reality of this emerging Andean nation in the face of overwhelming modernization and whirlwind changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOwpnpQoccM

Here's a video of a coup attempt. Does it look like we're talking about a politician in London or Washington DC?

Please watch to the end when Correa yanks his tie off (he was basically being held hostage) and said "If you want to kill the President, here he is! You want to kill me? Come and kill me!" and at the end of the video, someone shoots a tear gas canister at him.

So, yes Meyer is funny. Super funny. But he still doesn't get that what Correa is doing is normal over her.

And this President, whether he survives the next few months or not, will go down in Ecuador's History as one of the most effective and loved Presidents ever.

Not from the view of other countries--- of course not.

But by the people of Ecuador itself.

Tiko Tiko might never hug you Kurtaja. Not now.

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Hello Hwy101,

Thanks for the feed back on Uruguay, I appreciate it.

With regards to speaking Spanish, no I don't but I'm willing to learn. I spent a couple of months down in Mexico when I was a kid and I really liked it, mind you, that was almost 25 years ago (oh my how time fly's).

That's crazy about renting a car with your credit card in Uruguay, thanks for the tip.

Something that initially attracted me to both Uruguay and Ecuador is their leaderships under Mujica and Correa. Not being from or having even visited either country, my opinion is only based on what I've read.

On a side note, I noticed that someone down voted my question. Having relatively thick skin this doesn't bother me, but rather I was wondering due to my lack of knowledge of Ecuador and it's culture, is there something wrong with, or the way I presented it.

Regards,

Paul

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@Tarshatha: Thumbs UP

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Tarshatha,

Don't pay attention to the thumbs down.

I'll get thumbs down just for passing this wisdom on to you.

Although I'm the Anti-Thumbs Downer, I may even thumbs down myself for the heck of it.

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I should confess, up until today, I had no idea of the direness of this situation in Ecuador. I had only thought there was a left leaning President, that is not at least officially being undermined by the US., as the US's rhetoric has not been that critical. I read Tarastha's article and watched your video. I still know almost nothing.
These matter are very complex. Historically, the wealthy elites have no doubt exploited the poor. But to cut to the quick, I would say there's not enough wealth among them to catapult Ecuador into a modern 21st century country. So there's a delicate balance. If for example, there is to be a policy such as a 70% tax on estates over $1 million US, it's not inconceivable that the elites might either 1)start aligning with the military or foreign interests to try to undemocratically take over and install a Fascist government, which is the worst of all possibilities. Or 2) they pick up their tent and leave the country, Which at first seems glorious, but inevitably leads to economic decay as the country is left without their owners and producers.
Up North, we tend to see some of the actions of some Latin Americans leaders as being overly dramatic, as Correa's martyrdom appears in that video.But keep in mind, while there still might be room for conciliation, that kind of drama only antagonizes the opposition. In that video, they talk of a newly established middle class in the last 7 years, that need to be persuaded to not join the opposition, but if Correa's policies have established a new middle class, I can't imagine why they would be at all persuaded to join an opposition. That's just not human nature.Once people get upward mobility, they don't readily give it up.
I hope a balance is achieved because I agree like you Livefree, it is very heartening to see people starting to feel empowered by their government.
I don't find Correa's being with Tiko at all inconceivable, but normal. I know Correa isn't the first celebrity to misuse twitter. It would be nice if he had a few people he'd listen to as media consultants, but who would I be to ridicule him for being unsophisticated? One should never be afraid to laugh. What does it matter, what a certain group of foreigners think?
Thank you for educating on what's going on in your country. Like Mr. Moriarty I hope this difficult period will pass.

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kirkaja,

"..... if Correa's policies have established a new middle class, I can't imagine why they would be at all persuaded to join an opposition. That's just not human nature.Once people get upward mobility, they don't readily give it up."

That is the problem with viewing a country from afar, without living there, experiencing the way of life or having an understanding the history and the psyche of the people
I am not criticizing but simply pointing out that there is an entirely different mindset at work here. Expectations are high. Sometimes, overly so. People want immediate solutions to long existent problems. Sound familiar ?
Impatience can easily be manipulated into Disillusionment.
People are prone to believe what they read or are told on television. Sound familiar ?
I think it was Joseph Goebbels who said that if you tell a lie often enough and loud enough, people will believe it.
We have our own versions of Fox News and MSNBC here. Correa's enemies control a large portion of the print and broadcast media and have sought from day one to frustrate his attempts at reform and progress. Again, does this sound familiar ?
I started this by saying the mindset here is different from the North, but also wish to point out the similarities in how people can be manipulated into believing the worst. Different country, different language, different culture but same old methods of control and disinformation in play.
The poor and ignorant are easily led. The educated middle class are harder to convince BUT if you perpetuate the fear that they will lose everything that they have worked for...well,,,Sound familiar ?

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Well Kirkaja

Thanks for the thoughtful response! Latin American leaders were raised on soap operas and by mothers who never missed an episode, so if anyone has drama down to the letter, it's these guys.

Tiku Tiku might even sit down and have a beer with you, it was such a pensive summery.

This 70 percent tax thing...is hard for the people to accept. It's extortion to take 70 percent of anything that was never yours. There is a majority of the poor that have adopted this viewpoint as well.

It's not justice, EVEN if it does affect mainly the wealthy.

And that's one of the things I love about this country. They're into justice, even though that justice may be a bit twisted or too relative at times.

Example. "I'll take the cell phone you were stupid enough to leave in your shopping cart because I can tell you can afford another one a lot easier than me." Or, "God will forgive me for lifting your tablet while my cousin distracts you because school is starting and my kids need uniforms and books. God, I wont steal again until next September. I promise."

But here's the pay off. "The government shouldn't take 70 percent of anything that they didn't help build. I don't care how much money is involved."


Ecuadorians will try to judge for themselves what is just and what is not just. And, they pride themselves in reflective thinking. Which can be persuaded, that's for sure.

But once the majority is united...forget about it. You're dead in the water..politically speaking.

I only agree with about 60 percent video content that Tarshatha posted. The writer was too biased and as Kmore pointed out, he was trying to force- fit Venezuela politics into Ecuador.

The guy who was interviewed was off as well...the opposition did not incite trouble during the popes visit. His expressions were placed with an agenda as well..

Last but not least...if it's one thing Ecuadorians are accustomed to....It's an unstable government.

One way or another, This too REALLY WILL pass. And Ecuador will go on. Just like the song in the Titanic.

Personally, I really really really hope Correa get's his act together and stops pushing the envelope so far. As a whole, it's been a great 8 years.

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Kirkaja,



One last comment. I'm not sure I would describe Correas actions (as seen in the video) as a form martyrdom. He was trying to bust his attackers juevitos with a bold confrontation.

Dramatic martyr impersonation perhaps....It's very doubtful however that he would have gone down easily had they rushed the room.

It was an amazing moment any way you look at it.

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Let me add something -- and that is that our writer of the original post and the others not in Ecuador seem to make a similar assumption -- it is an assumption made by most not already in Ecuador and actually by many new arrivals (who don;t stay long) -- that is he assumption that some bigger power, some country (usually the USA) or some conspiracy of the "Elite" that is somehow really playing in the background and controlling what goes on.

It is an arrogant belief and tacitly untrue.

Ecuador is a sovereign nation. Anyone who lived through the FARC situation and the usurpation of territorial lines by Colombia 5 years ago (which inevitably ended in rolling black outs for 3 months due to negation of the electric contracts between the two countries) knows that.

If you judge Correa based on his Twitter files.. or his responses to a low brow quack on TV, then you will believe what you wish...what I write here, or what anyone could tell you who might know from experience would mean nothing to you because you have nothing by which to comprehend or measure the wisdom being imparted.

The bottom line is Ecuador and its President, its current situation and the future that has yet to be has much more complexity than this bit of propaganda could even begin to touch upon.

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Thumbs up or thumbs down?
Doesn't thumbs "up" mean "up your .....?" I was always happy proud receive them. The more thumbs down I get means I am irritating the right, the right, the right people. Just watch the movie Sparticus and see where you land on the issue. It is also a show of their true negativity, negative personality, and inability to look outside the box. The more thumbs down the better! They are badges of courage and medals of honor!

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Windshadow

In keeping with your definition of the "thumbs up", I just gave you one!! Enjoy.

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Somebody's off their meds again or self-medicating.
The original meanings of "thumbs up" and "thumbs down"

Juvenal refers to the Roman custom of spectators’ voting on the fate of wounded gladiators with their thumbs. You may think a gladiator would appreciate the crowd’s “thumbs up” (verso pollice), but exactly the opposite is true. Where we give thumbs up as a sign of approval, it meant death to its Roman recipient; much to the crowd’s delight.

These men once were horn-blowers and attendants
At every municipal arena, known as trumpeters in every village.
Now they present their own spectacles, and, to win applause,
Kill whomever the mob gives the “thumbs up”.

Decimus Junius Juvenalis; a.k.a. Juvenal
(c. 55-140 A.D.), "Third Satire"

Thumbs down, signified “swords down,” which meant the loser was worth more to them alive than dead, and he was spared apparently so he could make up for his disgrace the next time he appeared in the arena. Keep this in mind the next time you give someone the “thumbs up” sign.
Our reverse interpretation of this custom apparently was the result of the work of the French artist Léon Gérôme who apparently understood the Latin verso ("turned") to mean "turned down", and therefore in his painting Pollice Verso (1873), he presents the death sentence with the thumbs-down gesture.
The painting became so popular that Gérôme’s mistake became the accepted interpretation and it is unlikely that it will ever be changed back to the meaning that it had with the Romans.
Scholars before Gérôme gave support to the view that “thumbs down” among the Romans, meant the hapless gladiator was to be spared, not slain.
Desmond Morris in Gestures: Their Origins and Distribution traces the practice back to a medieval custom used to seal business transactions. Over time, the mere sight of an upraised thumb came to symbolize harmony and kind feelings. For an example in the 17th century see the Diego Velasquez painting The Lunch.
The gesture's popularization in America is generally attributed to the practices of World War II pilots, who used the thumbs up to communicate with ground crews prior to take-off.
The thumbs up signal has a generally positive connotation in English-speaking countries.
On the internet, and most particularly at the Facebook social media site, the thumbs up gesture is shown as an icon and is associated with the term "like"—which within that context means to follow or subscribe to the page, posts, or profile of another individual or company. See Like button.
The history of the middle finger is an entirely different matter.

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K45
Yes, Sir the gringos or Americans from U.S. are stupid and un educated. Thank you for the lesson and the explanation. Just staying out of politics and loving the Greeks........

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have another drink Joe

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Kmoriarity,
I knew that!
I have internet service too. So thumbs up to you, or is it thumbs down. Nevertheless, I like your post!
I give you two fingers and one thumb up. That ought to cover it.

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Good God Joe could you just shut up when you don't understand the post. Stupid, are you kidding me. You are the most ignorant person I have ever heard on this site. I hope to meet you some day in person.

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