And FWIW, Hillary IS going to need every vote she can get; make no mistake, both 'Parties' are genuinely scared sh*tless that Trickle Down Trump is gonna 'schlong' her. Seriously, if he gets up *any* momentum, it'll be all downhill from there:((( After which Investing in 'Safe Room' installers could be quite profitable, at least in the short-term...

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Although neither Trump or Hillary are a very good choice my vote is Trump. He's one of the best business men in the US and what better person to run the biggest business there is, the USA!

Add in ALL of the scandals Hillary has been caught in and there's no doubt Trump is the best choice.

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Neither one of em are well qualified to be President, unless of course being a slimy crooked politician or a mercenary pirate capitalist qualified you for the job. The two party system in the U.S. is a rigged game. What we need is an alternative political party......For the time being, Gary Johnson, ex gov of N. Mexico of the Libertarian party is the best of the bunch.........Even tho realistically he has no chance........If I am forced to vote with a gun to my head for either one of the two, I would have to take the a&*h%^e over the b$%ch............At least he doesnt have a lifetime of political corruption and selling out to the highest bidder...........Even the IRS is now investigating the Clinton Foundation.......Shud be interesting to watch how this unfolds...........Good time to be south of the border............well south!

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DUM....I agree....380,000,000 people in the States and the best they can come up with are two pathological liars who both should be wearing orange jump suits. I'm going to need help to vote with one hand plugging my nose and the other holding a barf bag. GOD save us. :>((((

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MOODY....Get outta the sun and move into the shade. They both suck!!!! :>(((

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Choosing an expat health insurance provider is an important decision. Get a quote from our trusted expat health insurance partner, CIGNA. With Cigna Global Health Options, you can create an international health insurance plan that's perfectly tailored for the needs of you and your family.

I don't know how to start a new 'thread' because at 72 I'm lucky to find the keys on my keyboard, but if this is a new thread, I'm glad I started it, because I am convinced the new era of the rapidly declining will be the motivation for a lot of folks to emmigrate, and hopefully the SS system will be one of the last bastions of the 'good society' to collapse around us. My plan is to live on 2/3 of my monthly SS income, putting the balance in the bank as a hedge against either new POTUS.

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I have had no less than 20 emails and phone calls asking me what Ecuador was like today. 2 people I've never even met. All I could say is: "I've never been there; had a lot of conversations with lots of people living down there; it's a socialist country with high taxes and fees and I'm moving down as soon as I sell my house." Most couldn't believe I'd move to a foreign country, where I don't speak the language, and I've never even visited (except my friends that know me). Hell I've only been back in the mainland 7 years and I was ready to leave before this election but now I can't get out of here fast enough. Can't wait to meet you expats.

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Many of us who are still raising families or who are not old white guys are thrilled with the messages coming out of the democratic convention. Protections for our families, more affordable college, respect for diversity. Even if a tenth of it comes to pass, or none, our society is changing to reflect a more compassionate America. Those who feel there is no real difference between the candidates or who hate Hillary are simply scared that the world has moved on from the 1950's of their youth. Sorry, it has. Expect a flood of bitter new expats in 2017.

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I feel for you. Hope everything works out for you and your family. My advise is to not be too concerned until you need to be concerned.
As a retired teacher, things are very different now, and getting a college degree should be free for those that do well enough in high school to get there. I believe it's pretty much the same in most Western European Countries. Others are given opportunities for going to trade schools. Nobody is left out unless they choose to. Good luck.

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Homeexchanger,
Generalities are great, care to tell us what great things are coming? DNC is bringing us a hawk, letting the minority control the direction of the majority, and if you believe anything will change, good luck. I am not saying that RNC will do any better, however, the candidate has not political background and doesn't need the lobbyists money!
As for protection of the family, The DNC will have you giving up rights as fast as they can pass the laws.
As for any of them, be careful what Kool-aid you are drinking. They both stink!

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Adnrewwestes,
Good plan!
Good luck!
Ecuador is a great place to live.

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PAcountryboy,
Good post!
We could use a non-career politician for a change. Was Hitler a non-politician? They both scare hell out of me.
WWIII could be just around the corner.

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I will vote ....because it is my privilege, right, and duty as a U.S.Citizen and also because I have voted in every general election since I was first able to.
I have always believed that you if you didn't vote then you really have no right to complain about the government you get...
As a Vietnam vet, I've been around long enough to see misguided foreign policy in action - more than once ! There's been more than one POTUS that's scared me.
Funny thing though, the founding fathers knew that over time we'd elect an idiot or madman or two, which is why they constructed the series of check and balances that ( usually ) keep us from total collapse and annihilation by ourselves or outside forces.
I am a registered Independent voter with no particular liking for either of the two major parties. I vote for the person, rather than the political party.
I frankly, am more interested in what is going on here, with the elections in 2017, than I am in what will happen in Nov. in the States....except for one niggling fear. My fear of history repeating itself. My fear that the United States will, like Germany did in the 1930's , elect an uncontrollable megalomaniac !
I don't like either candidate but I know a snake oil salesman when I see one !
Given the choice, I prefer someone who can listen to others, work with others, and work WITHIN the system, rather than an egomaniac, hellbent on tearing it down !
As my grandmother used to say' " Yer better with the devil ya know, than the devil ya don't know ! "
Whatever devil you choose, vote for them in November .

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Dumluk,
You must be kidding! Right!
Hillbillary is the cats meow for everyone but mostly for herself. Remember, if you don't take care of yourself no one else will. And, she is hot....not!
I am voting for Melania.

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HomeEx, More and more blacks being shot and killed by cops and now the growing amount of cops being shot and killed by blacks and whites is a more compassionate America? Jeez

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I took two courses in college in Economics (50 years ago) two in accounting. My main takeaway was that you shouldn't spend money you don't have. College loan debt in the US now exceeds $1.2 Trillion (a lot of money). In the future is that sum added every several years to the National Debt? No one knows, of course, but the main political topic now seems to be which bathroom you should use. Serious issues are avoided. Until some really smart and honest politician (???) comes up with new math, I do not see how this Free Everything philosophy is going to function. One survey of college graduates, in Business and Economics had the answer: "Well, the government prints as much money as it needs." Maybe this is the new math. Who knows? I sure don't.

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Luck is better well planned. I'm doing this with much planning, a lot of good advice, professional input and a moderated withdrawal and entrance, not a panic move at all. But, in truth, I CAN'T WAIT!!

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WIND.....A-freakin'-men! What difference does it make anyway! :>(((

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Windshadow: democrats aren't taking away my rights, they legalized my Canadian marriage 12 years later and gave our kids two legal parents. If you don't think the Republicans want to slash your social security you're unaware of Paul Ryan's published plans.
Moody, more blacks being shot by police? No, we're just hearing about it now and people are saying it isn't ok for once. Only a straight, white, old man could write either of these silly posts. It's possible to be a compassionate old straight dude, or you can keep being a scared, reactionary parroting Trump's nonsense. Any mental health professional will tell you he is a textbook example of Narcissistic Personality Disorder with less impulse control than my 10-year old. Give him the nuclear codes and we're all dead.

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I share kmoriarty45 sentiments about voting. Also an independent, our 2 party system really needs an overhaul but that's all we really have to work with for now. I've always voted for the person and not the party which means that more than once have voted for the person that I felt was the lesser of two evils. Looks like I'll be doing so again this time. I also have to agree that those who don't vote have no right to whine and complain about the results.

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AYSGYE

No, you are mistaken. I am in the North now and there is no election here. There is ( and I think it explains your confusion) an enormous comedy festival. The two central characters are Punch and Judy.

Volunteers have stepped forward to play these traditional parts. The casting was obvious, these two are perfect and well seasoned.

Punch is a break-out stand up comedian from the big Apple. This is his national debut and the critics are going wild over his banter and slap-stick.

In character (Punch, always punching at Judy) recently he said, "I'd like to hit them....hit them so hard....their head would spin!"

That's Punch to a Tee!

there are lots of running gags about email and celebrity walk on's by a diverse "who's who" of the famous. From a sitting Supreme court Justice to the head of a well known foreign state, Former presidents, movie stars, they all join in the fun.

The part of Judy goes to a North East house wife and mother. Much of her knowledge of government comes from having slept (at different times) with a state Governor and a President.

Its Judy's job to try and guide Punch's behavior. She's a grand mother so by now knows how to scold a five year old bully when he calls others names and threatens to "hit them" .

With three full unscripted months ahead of us...."look out Los Estados!"

sinchistoso

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@ HomeEx, I stated "more and more blacks" are being shot and killed by cops. Yes it's much more known and broadcast now but the fact is that the number is rising.

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Chriswright,
I believe the first amendment to the constitution gives people the right to whine and complain whenever they choose. This right is not incumbent on whether they vote or not. So, let your own conscience be your guide! If you don't want to vote, that is your choice. Whine on, if you like, till you feel better. Don't let someone else PC you into thinking otherwise.

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@ PACountryBoy, I strongly agree, they both suck! It's a matter of which one sucks the most.........Hillary!

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Yes, the Constitution allows one to bitch and whine if they so choose.

However I also feel that if one does not have the gumption to cast their own vote then they have no basis to whine!

If you are not part of the solution...

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It's really annoying to be forced to talk seriously about Donald Trump's suitability to be US President. It's not that Trump is ignorant, it's that he knows so many things that just aren't so, to paraphrase Winston Churchill.

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well said. taylujay

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Kensate,
So you think those that voted for Sanders and then had pre-designated delegates for Hillary that invalidated his votes, feel the same.
How about the majority of votes cast in Florida only to have the US Supreme Court give the election to the loser?
You really place a high value on your vote. In that case, I will vote for Trump!
No one really cares what you think about voting giving you the right to complain, I can call a spade a spade under my constitutional right and you can sit there and deal with it. Your opinion, which isn't even an original thought, is worthless. But, so is mine!

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Doubling the debt from George W to W
in eight years.A year or so back 70% of the debt was being monetized.Who's in control is totally incompetent.Free college sounds fine.Now find a free building,professors that work for free and BINGO.Oh,that's not going to happen.

In every case I've found when the powers that be monetize debt one gets war, overthrow of the govt or both.

In a few years the US will be a shadow of what it was.You can use that SS check to wipe your arse.

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Kensate,
I am planning to refrain from voting and I plan to speak out whenever I choose too when I believe the country is doing wrong.
My reason is that both candidates that have a chance of winning are supporting issues that I am morally opposed too. Behaviors, such as lying, stealing, war, etc. are what I am referring. Casting a vote for either of the candidates would portend my agreement with their stated beliefs and previous actions. So, my "basis" is sound, my intentions are sound, and the only thing standing in the way are your flimsy opinions and your attempts at silencing my views.
We need to speak out more about core values and not have to listen to people, like you, that think they have a right to silence others by stigmatizing them by setting rules you find somewhat important.

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DDR,
About your comment on SSI. I certainly hope not. My comes in the form of electronic mail. Other than TP or wash cloth nothing gets near mine and especially something electronic.
About your other comments, I agree and see many problems in the making. Hopefully these and many others will be resolved without having to resort to historic remedies. I like your solution to the failure of SSI but unfortunately mine is too little too late. Save money for a plow, shovel, and hoe.

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DDR...Good point but if you really want an education, start digging into the endowment programs at major universities: BC, Notre Dame, Stanford, Michigan, FSU,, to name but a few...they ALL DO IT! You could cover the national debt on just the interest they earn in a year. It's a sin how these Big Schools have turned into Bigger Businesses and get away with jacking up the tuition and board every year...without even getting into what and how they are teaching.!!!!
:>(((

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WIND....I TOTALLY agree with you but what does it say about what has happened to the country we grew up in? The family unit has gone to hell in a hand basket, they've taken GOD outta the schools, and the government. Individualism, pride, accomplishment and respect for one another are totally lost and forgotten. That's why we are leaving. As I posted earlier, 380 million people and two pathological liars are the best we can come up with? GOD help us for we know not what we have done! :>)))

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Actually...

I´m finding this all fascinating...

...sickeningly horrifying in the lack of factual information, raging misogyny, and overwhelmingly skewed by the number of upper middle class white Christian males...

...and yet I can´t stop reading.

Rather like a train wreck in slow motion.

In case you wondered...yes I´m voting for Hillary Clinton.

After all... a Woman´s Place Is In the House, the WHITE HOUSE.

... and you guys might want to check your facts on a few things, just a suggestion.

Susan

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Really Susan, who would have ever thought you would vote for Hillary? You, being the moderator and chief censor, I guess I will have to support Hillary too if I ever want to post on here. LOL
Nope, she has been proven to have to many bad character traits, like lying her ass off, selling the government position to the highest bidder, yady yady yady.... Same with Trump. He scares hell out of me. I won't be voting this year. I won't be sending any donations to either party. Surely we could, as a country, have picked better candidates. This whole thing has to be rigged. Could be the spark that starts a big fire!

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Actually,I think Trump brings excitement compared to Hillary,Ted"grampa Munster" Cruz or Jeb.It'l be interesting rather than dull.

Ok college.Open university is free,kind of.MIT has free course study online.And if one does their first couple years at community college that cuts costs way down.

I'm not that old Harvard room& board
was $10k, gas $1 gal.Now gas $2.xx and Harvard $65k. R&B.

Student loans going bad are mostly due to 50% dropout rates.Or some fool owing $350,000 for art school.

Bill Clinton had to have the worst taste in women ever.Hillary got where she's at riding his coat tails.
B Clinton got lucky on a strong dollar econ where oil drops to about $10 brl
where they had to prop up the price so Russia wouldn't fall apart.

Bush & Obama went with a weak $ most of their reigns.US econ doesn't do well with the weak $.

Now the debt is so high they really will suffer if the $ goes strong or if the normal 5-6% 10 yr treasury bond interest rates return

In conclusion their goose is cooked..

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Your post was kind scattered. Did you mean to say, when you went to Harvard, or someone going to Harvard? I went to your profile, which had no personal information, not even identifying you as male or female. I read your posts, but couldn't figure out where you're coming from except you live in Florida and don't like to spend money. Are you actually the poster who identifies as DumLuk? Do you believe Trump will make your life better? Do you drink a lot? Veteran? Who and what are you?

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Hillary Clinton: The tragedy in Benghazi, the email scandal from her servers and now all of the email information from WikiLeaks coming out with more damaging ones to come out according to Julian Assange the founder. That's just 3 very very serious things proven that she is responsible for and for any other Joe would probably be facing prison time. She is crooked period and it's been proven without a doubt. Pick your poison out of the 2 running very carefully.

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WIND....OCEAN...(sounds like wind, rain & fire intro) They BOTH suck; they lie, they cheat, are disgusting, evil narcissists. Here's the essence of the whole thing: SUPREME COURT APPOINTMENTS. If you want Socialist appointments, vote Hillary. If you want Constitutional Conservatives, vote Trump. In either case, plug your nose so you don't "blow lunch". :>(((

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That was a good (albeit snidely prejudiced) observation. It IS all about Supreme Court appointments. This the most important election in 240 years and will affect us for at least the next two generations.

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This is certainly not the location to pusue legitimate talking points and facts about the nominees for pesdient from the two major parties.

That being said, it is distressing to read the level of despair so many of you have fo the USA, and how you are completely blind to what has occurred in the past 8 years, both politcally and economically, how the repots of competent and respected news agencies are set aside for conspiracy theories with no basis in reality, and certain belief that doom is imminent.

What this demonstrates is a truly uneducated populace. One that get´s its belief system in sound bytes and memes, has no sense of healthy curiousity, has a morbid fascination with horor whee it doesn´t exist, and blinders to to real problems that effect us all.

It is a real cognitive disconnect.

Cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas, or values, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

For 8 years, it was a black man as president...and now, it´s a woman president.

Eveythng else that has been tossed into the mix...Benghazi (no finding), Rose Law Firm (no finding), the Foundation (no finding at this time), Email then (no finding) , Emails now (7 out of 19,252 and feasibly minisnformation plants by foreign espionage) ... are just red herrings...

I would be ore concered about almost 3,000 lawsuits, Bankrupt busineses, unpaid vendors, 3 rape charges (including underage), and associations with Putin, and an immediate security leak following briefing , to be much more sierous issues. Especially that Putin thing... Funny that no one has brought that up...

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The GOP diet has been demonstrably rich in red herring, at least since the microfilm-in-the-pumpkin days.

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I understand that we have the right to vote for whoever but it really amazes me how people can say that Trump is the way to go. I like to listen to him because you can expect the unexpected and he is very entertaining, and I agree with some of his opinions but overall, he scares me, his motives to become the President are personal, I don't think he really has a grasp of what being an American is all about. We are One Nation, Many Races. and this will never change, no matter what anyone tries.

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Susan, because someone doesn't agree with you and your interpretation of events doesn't necessarily make them idiots. Just because you choose to drink the blue Kool-aide, doesn't make those drinking the red Kool-aide bad people. Just because Hillary has a vagina doesn't qualify her for the presidency no more than Trump having a penis. The people of the USA just watched the director of the FBI report on his findings. Individuals have the right and responsibility to form their own conclusions without you telling them they have mental problems. It is a damn shame that the two candidates of whom are most likely to be elected have such scandalous pasts. Personally, I think only the uneducated, those with the mentality of a mountain monkey would vote for her or him.

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So you don't think Trump is corrupted, lol, and that he has never sold out to the highest bidder, please, let's be honest and call it what it is, before you give a women your vote, you prefer to give it to someone who wants to take us back to a time where people were classified by their race and economical status, pleeeeeaaasseeeee, thank God for our younger generations, they are so much more open minded. And by the way, their demographic outnumbers the over 40 years old, and unlike ever before they are very involved in the political process so I am putting my hopes on them

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Misa,
He scares me too. I keep going back to the history of Adolf Hitler and the conditions, speeches, and above all the nationalistic fervor that allowed that evil man to come to power. Not exactly the same but it does have a familiar ring to it.
Pacountryguy!
Unfortunately I think your are very correct in your thinking. Hopefully, no matter who wins the office, the balance of powers will win out and temper the extremes involved in any Supreme Court appointments. I also am appalled at the Congress for not conducting hearings for the President's recommendation recently.

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MISA....LOL....you confused me for a second....I couldn't be sure if your were talking about Trump... Clinton #1 ....Clinton #2....or Obama. : > (((

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Actually it has nothing to do with a personal interpretation, it has to do with the facts, and court findings.

What is unclear is why you think all these other posters are idiots (your word) because they have a differing view?

I believe we have an intelligent Poster group and that they may be misinformed by the media.

As for what makes Hillary Clinton qualified to be President, glad you asked, here is a list of reasons ... (by no means every reason)

Hillary Clinton:

BACKGROUND
Elective Office
Hillary Clinton first rose to elective office in 2001 and stepped down from an elected position in 2009. Clinton has served as an elected official for a total of 8 years, which is 7 less than the average 2016 presidential candidate (15 years).

Political Experience
United States Secretary of State, 2009-2013
Sworn In, United States Secretary of State, January 21, 2009
Senator, United States Senate, 2001-2009
Candidate, United States President, 2008
First Lady, President Bill Clinton, 1993-2001
First Lady, State of Arkansas, 1979-1981, 1983-1992

Professional Background
Assistant Professor, University of Arkansas Law School, 1975
Attorney, Rose Law Firm, 1976-1992
Author
Former Board Member, Wal-Mart

Education
JD, Yale University, 1973
BA, Wellesley College, 1969

On INDIVIDUALS RIGHTS
YES Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right Strongly Agrees
YES Legally require hiring women & minorities Strongly Agrees
YES Comfortable with same-sex marriage Strongly Agrees
YES Keep God in the public sphere
Agrees
YES Make voter registration easier
Strongly Agrees
YES EPA regulations are not restrictive enough
Strongly Agrees

On DOMESTIC ISSUES:
Expand ObamaCare Strongly Agrees
Prioritize green energy Strongly Agrees
Stricter punishment does NOT reduces crime Agrees
There is no absolute right to gun ownership Strongly Agrees
Vouchers for school choice is unnacceptable Strongly Agrees
Marijuana is NOT a gateway drug
Disagrees

On Economic Issues
Stimulus better than market-led recovery Strongly Agrees
Higher taxes on the wealthy Strongly Agrees
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens Strongly Agrees
No to Privatize Social Security Strongly Agrees

On Defense and International Issues
Does not support free trade & expand free trade
Does not support expansion of the military
Does not support American Exceptionalism

That should clarify some of the major issues that everyone should be concerned with in this election cycle.

Obviously issues such as the future of the Supreme Court is reflected by Clintons stand on many of these issues, and naturally should be taken into account.

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Edit:

Marijuana is NOT a gateway drug
Agrees...

...and it´s on the Democrat platform to get it decriminalized...

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Susan, So you agree as Hillary does that an American citizen does not have the absolute right to gun ownership? If so we may as well take the US constitution twist it up and make a giant doobie out of it.

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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Susan, you wanna take this one? The reference to giant doobies is telling.

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I like article 2 of the constitution. If we are going to roll a doobie out of the old girl let's preserve Article 1 and 2, roll the rest.
After we have consumed the doobie we can use Article 1 till the cows come home, never have to worry about Article 2, and all agree it is a wonderful world we live in. Peace to all those that continue to dream of a better place in life.

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Susan, I respect you as an intelligent woman who runs with her convictions and beliefs.
You posted "Actually it has nothing to do with a personal interpretation, it has to do with the facts, and court findings.

What is unclear is why you think all these other posters are idiots (your word) because they have a differing view?"

You have made a fine argument for Hillary Clinton, however, in my opinion you are only describing the frame that holds the entire picture. Again, this is only my opinion based on watching many Congressional Hearings ( you know the ones that partisan people try and disparage others) and conclusions of non partisan (laugh out loudly) agencies such as State Department reports, FBI reports, and her own conflicting testimonies. I also looked at her accomplishments, read many of her own emails, tried to accumulate a list of her accomplishments and successes. I am sorry to report, I think she is deceitful and will do anything to promote her own personal agenda. I think we citizens of the USA deserve more. I would much rather have you as my president than her. I think you have a heart and a better grip on reality than Hillary.

Now, as for those who disagree with me about Hillary, I didn't say they were idiots, at least I didn't mean to even infer that. I believe in everyone's right to see the glass from different angles. Your life and your past bring you to this point that allows you to proudly support one over the other. I respect that and support that!
The smoke rising around Hillary is coming from some source, the smoke around Donald comes from some place too. You know that where there is smoke there is fire.

Again, I don't like the choices and morally I can not cast a vote for those that have stated that they support issues that I do not. If I were to do that, then and only then I would not have a right to complain because I feel if I knowingly voted for a person that was in conflict with my personal beliefs, I got what I chose. As an example, what if my gut is telling me Donald Trump has the potential to revisit the policies of the German Empire of the 3o's and 40's and we had to start ducking and dodging the infamous "star of David" on our lapels, not to mention the rest of the history of how that government killed so many family and friends. What about Libya, Iraq, Syria, Israel, etc. these events didn't take place in a vacuum without sponsors and profiteering. In my heart I feel the stage is set for that type of insanity! I can't vote for him because of that lingering fear inside me. Are people idiots that vote for him, not at all. They are just coming from a different place and time.

Having said all that, let me say I respect everyone's right to vote or abstain. Vote your gut, your heart, your past, your intelligence, your knowledge of history, and your fears.

Again, I think I would rather see a sign that says"
SUSAN SCHLESHINGER (sp) for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!"

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I can't help wondering if the Ecuadoran/Ecuadorian citizenry has all the crap rolling around in their heads that expats do. And it's LOSE, not LOOSE some weight. I'm going to Ibarra because I read there are few expats there. Sheesh!

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Don't know about Ibarra but Cuenca is pretty chilly now! Bring a good jacket or buy one of the locals here. You might need it.

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MoodyBlue...

You ask a good question... about the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights and the right to bear arms.

Tje wording states that the right shall not be infringed...so let´s first define that word:

Onfringe means to "wrongly limit or restrict"

Hillary Clinton takes a stance that is for gun rights but not for the absolute right to own every type of gun or to own a gun without reasonable licensing, and background checks,

In light of modern weapons, crime, and the horrors we have seen caused by the use of guns in mass shootings that seems imminently fair and any reasonable person would agree that these background checks, licensing provisions and such do not infringe on a citizens right to bear arms.

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Here's some facts mam.Remember the no-mam club from married w/children :-) I digress.

Obama:Debt:GDP ratio 107% While not a Bush fan, maybe he hit about 70%.

Hillary flunked the DC bar exam.

Hillary might be qualified as a parking ticket attorney.

Merkel is brilliant none the less screwed Germany with an invasion.

The US constitution doesn't allow for a standing army,period.

What in the constitution doesn't one under stand about the right to bear arms? Says it plainly enough.

And no I'm not here trying to sell Panama RE like DL.

I think Ecuador is the most beautiful
place on earth ecologically speaking.
Otherwise it's a crap hole like any place the Spanish are as Miami is.

What I've seen of expats it's mostly hippies.Which is ok if one likes hippies.

My politics is they're fiddling as Rome burns over total BS of unisex toilets and gay marriage.

Obama had a Dem congress two years and could have done something other than a halfass
mandatory crappy insurance.
Then single payer when they can't even run the friggin VA correctly.

What appeals to me about Trump is 30% of federal employees said they'd quit if he's elected.GOOD and don't let the door hit you SOBS in the ass on your way out :-)

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Susan, You're exactly right that no one should be able to own a firearm without a license and a background check. One problem is there's a way around that. There is no law that prevents a licensed owner from selling a firearm to another without those 2 being done and is done so often. I have bought and sold mainly pistols myself. States differ also on their ways of performing the background checks. In the state I live in you apply, wait 7 days (I think) and then able to purchase. The state SC beside of me is as easy as buying a candy bar pretty much. I used to live there and purchased several. You go in, pick which pistol you want, a phone call is made to Columbia,SC to verify there is no criminal background or one not serious enough to prevent the purchase and out the door you go. My concern and although I see it as ever happening (and never could) is the Government trying to disarm the American people that own weapons properly. That is what I took from what you stated and that Hillary would want to see happen. Two things: People kill with guns not the guns killing people and if the Government were ever to try and disarm legit owners they'll pry mine from my cold dead hands as well as millions of other owners. Peace!

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Infringing on someones right means to place limitations or restrictions.
Our country approved that amendment out of fear of a government gone bad, protection of the homeland against invaders, and criminals.
It was a guarantee of self protection to individuals that might encounter others with intentions to do harm for the purpose of protection.
I think a bill should be passed to require the government to provide arms and ammunition for this purpose to the citizens. Same as the police, who after all are also citizens attempting to do the same things the Amendment calls for. Protection.
Limitations of any kind is a slippery slope to undermining the intent of the second amendment.
There are many issues that often arise where the majority have to give up rights because of the few. This is not good.

It is similar to outlawing or restricting car purchases and ownership on everyone because some decide to get drunk and drive.

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Windshadow, 55% of Americans believe that restrictions on gun ownership do not infringe on the constitutional right to bear arms. 43% say they do. 57% favor a nationwide ban on assault weapons, while 25% are opposed. 73% favor universal background checks. AP/Gfk poll If it wasn't so cold in Montana, I believe that you would be in a plywood cabin with no windows, yet you squat in a South American country that won't allow you to strut around with a gun on your hip. You are solidly in the minority in this country, madam. I am a combat veteran. You are a bitter blowhard.

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We have many rights enumerated by the Bill of Rights...

Freedom of Speech, Assembly, Bear Arms... but they are not absolute rights.

No one has the right to yell fire in a crowded theater if there is no fire...

Assemblies in public places of a lager size must not infringe on the rights of others to access, most provide for hygiene locations, and there is the rights of those with differing views to also assemble...

And that should also apply to the right to bear arms. And it needs tobe on a National level so those examples povided, diffeing rules in different states (all of which do infringe on an absolute right, by the way) can be rules that protect us. A good example is that the young man who massacred all those people in Orlando was on the no-fly list, and yet could still purchase a weapon. And while there are in fact many ways to commit muder and mayhem, does that mean we stand by and do nothing when we can control one vector, and do so in a way that does not limit the right to own a gun for those citizens who are in fact well capable to do so?

And, for the record, we do in fact contol the use and sale of vehicles to those who have proven incapable of their proper use. We rescind their license, penalize them, and if necessary, jail them.

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Windshadow, 55% of Americans believe that restrictions on gun ownership do not infringe on the constitutional right to bear arms. 43% say they do. 57% favor a nationwide ban on assault weapons, while 25% are opposed. 73% favor universal background checks. AP/Gfk poll If it wasn't so cold in Montana, I believe that you would be in a plywood cabin with no windows, yet you squat in a South American country that won't allow you to strut around with a gun on your hip. You are solidly in the minority in this country, madam. I am a combat veteran. You are a bitter blowhard.

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Sojourner44,
Nice day to you too!
As a combat veteran you took an oath to defend the constitution. Then start defending it! If you want to change the constitution there is a methodology in place to do just that.
The rest of your comments I will just ignore due to your lack of intelligence.
If you don't want to exercise your "right" to gun ownership then don't! It is not required.
Was your comment "I was a combat veteran" made to impress me? LOL Pretty good transition from veteran to jackwad!

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Ocean Hideaway,
Good response.
What I don't want to see is the type of restrictions we have here in Ecuador.
I am also aware of how the USA can take something like a seatbelt law and turn it into a mandatory checkpoint reason just like the DUI checkpoints. When the seatbelt law was passed it assured everyone that it would not allow police to stop a vehicle solely for that reason. Well that didn't last long.
I am only guessing but I fear gun laws will reach a point where they only allow certain people of influence to be able to purchase a gun.
For example, you owe the IRS a back tax you are prevented from buying a gun.
None the less, good argument Susan and very well stated.

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Sorry for the double post. While I'm here, I might as well relate a bit of my history.. I own a 269 acre ranch in eastern New Mexico. A few years back, I came under heavy Drive by some of the local gun totin' windshield cowboys who, because I wanted to Cevallos a guest ranch, felt I was a threat to their way of life. Politicians, state troopers, local magistrates, game and fish officers and state land office commisioners were employed to bring enormous pressures. Our very lives were threatened. My response was to arm myself and let it be known that I would face anyone man to man, but that I knew that the only way they could kill me was to shoot me in the back from ambush with a scoped rifle. My arsenal consisted of a single shot 12 ga. ,a 30-30 lever action Winchester, a black powder .44 Colt, a .410 Mossberg pump( rattlesnakes) and a .22 cal. single action Tigre. No semi-automatic AK 47, not even a scoped rifle. I had one pistol drawn on me. I looked him in the eye and said" you had better drop me with the 1st shot, because if I get to you, I'll rip that gun out of your hand, shove it up your as- and empty it". The coward put it away and, when the agresor investigated, claimed it didn't happen. When the sense of danger diminished, I put away my guns and moved back to Florida and bought a boat. All agression stems from fear. I believe as Americans we have the right to defend ourselves, but when you strap on a gun, you're most likely gonna find yourself a gunfight! As Pappy Maverick said," if all the men who lived by the gun were laid end-to-end...I wouldn't be a bit surprised".

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Windshadow, your vitriolic reply rambled around in circles. I already defended the Constitution by my service to my country and by voting. Have you? I don't claim high intelligence having a mere 130 I.Q. As to your charge of being a jackwad; I don't know what a jackwad is, other than it's probably a Republican euphemism. Yor ARE a bitter old thing, aren't you?

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HomeExchanger, The Republican Party's platform is not synonymous with Trump's, hence their apprehension in endorsing him. A Huffington Post article in February, in which they interviewed a few Social Security activist groups like Social Security Works, said that Trump came out firmer against social security cuts than Hillary did. Hillary said she didn't plan on cuts, but wouldn't rule it out. Trump said firmly he will not cut it. People forget that Trump was a liberal for many years before switching parties, and a lot of his stances reflect that, much to the chagrin of the Republican party.

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I was just talking via SKYPE with an old friend from Arizona who is very active in Republican party politics. No supporter of Trump but party stalwart, he is caught in a moral/philosophical quagmire.
Although I was just a kid when Joe McCarthy and McCarthyism rant rampant in the U.S. , I've got a strong sense of history and can see parallels - many Republicans hated McCarthy but were too afraid of their own positions to speak out against him.
I told my friend in Arizona, that this is a like lot the story of The Emperor's New Clothes.
Well, folks, I'm the kid on the street corner, watching this ludicrous parade go by and am exclaiming out loud: " The Emperor has no clothes ! "

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Soujourner44,

Guess again. While you are looking up the definition of Vitriolic you can look up Jack wad. That is what I think you are, some little punk that never did anything in his life and only has spent a couple of years scrubbing out toilets for your great military service. Why is it that real men and women that have done their service never bring it up, except for the jack wads that think this is the only thing that defines them. You are a liar too. Nobody believes your rant "I went to Texas and yady yady yady..." You are total bullcrap living some John Wayne fantasy story. Try selling it on some other forum. I am calling you out----LIAR!

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Okay lady, you can believe what you want. I know what I did in my time in Vietnam, I know the truth about New Mexico and I know you're a mean spirited old thing. Calling me out? Wow, what a bad ass you come off. I reckon Ecuador is big enough for both of us. Lots of luck in your lonely exile.

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Susan,
Sorry for the diversion. What exactly are the Dems and Repubs suggesting in regards to gun ownership and the Second Amendment? Apparently I am missing something here.
BTW, I liked your classic law school analogy, if I can call it that, about standing and yelling fire in a public venue. Good arguments around that topic. My favorite is the elephant that enters town after escaping from the train and blah, blah, blah. lol
I have another serious question, do you think more laws restricting the legal purchase of guns will impact the crime rate by gun in the USA? I am having trouble with this one, enlighten me please.

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...ouch

remind me to never mention being a vet.. all the toilet scrubbing I did might come back to bite my unscubbed ass.

(did I scub a.. hmm. ?? ....noooo, do not recall that tour)

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Non vets don't realise the toilets have to scrubbed. They just assumed the maid took care of it. At least during compartment cleaning, you got to listen to the radio.

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yeah I told my guys if they had to piss, to go wet the copper ground spike behind the Rat Rig because the ground was so dry...

(and for god's sake,, do NOT touch the damned antenna.. did you not see Thompson's arm blow off last week?!? ..lol)

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SOUJOURN.....HAY....HAY HAY! SOUJOURN! Yer ofending the wrest of us "jacwads". We workd dam hard two gradjewate from midel skool just inn time two join the armee. My 47 I.Q. gut me a kommissun and a pear of reel shoes. Sew bak off and a "bruha" too yu and wear goin too vote four DuKakus irreegardless of yer ,nastee mouth an bitter attack!

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ok.. if I don't say this I'm going to pop an brain artery or something.. and gentlemen and ladies, I'm not directing this at anyone - ah-ight?

The 2nd amendment - I support it.. but I do because I like the craftsmanship of guns, the science of ballistics and the skill it takes to put a round consistently into a paper target from a football field away... bench rest competition with hand loaded rounds I made myself.. it is an art.

HOWEVER ...I am under no false illusions - guns were made to kill.. period. I think a few of us are all too familiar with this but whatever.. animals or humans - they were made to kill. You don't find a "cactus rifle" designed to shoot cacti.. come on.

So, what hurts the backs of my eyes with stress headaches is when I hear people yelling 2nd amendment this and that and then they quote only the last 1/3 of the f##king thing. If you are going to quote the whole damned thing, for god's sake READ THE WHOLE DAMNED THING!!!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

What do people not get? The reason that the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, is (WAS) because it was "necessary" for the security of a state ...to what??? come on.. you can do it.. -- To have a ..what? (I believe in you.. come on, try..)

- a "well regulated Militia" ??

anyone?

Do we still have State Militias? No.. we do not. And that is the 2nd amendment. And although I still want to be able to buy and own a gun - I am not a moron who picks out the 1/3 I want to harp on.. I guess I use my half a brain, which is considerably damaged from trauma (and probably some previous chemical abuse as well) - and somehow, STILL I am able to read an entire sentence.. geez-us-krist on a stick ...is it really that hard or is it just more convenient to "line item veto" the first two 3rds of the damned thing? We weren't given this uninfringable right to own a gun to get our jollies off - we were given it.. (why? ...cooome on.. stretch those B-cells)

So we could serve in a citizen manned, state militia - and those do not even exist today. So to be truthful about it - the whole damned 2nd is null and void anyway..

BE pissed - I don't give a fat rat's ass.. but if you are gonna tout a sentence - tout the whole thing, not the last phrase because I am so sorry, but it doesn't work that way..

I am not even going to get into the fact that the writers had guns that were black powder you had to ram a damned ball down.. they didn't even have cartridge held, primer fired bullets - much less 30 round mags in semiauto rifles.

- oh, I guess I did get into that after all.. well good. I like being thorough when I bitch.

...most of all - they did not have Sandy Hook. San Bernadino (sp) Orlando, Dallas or Miami mass shootings.

And if they HAD had those you can bet your ass they would have gone back and wrote version 2.1 of the damned thing!!

HOPPER

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Oh come on PLEASE...

someone - ANYONE..

"Make My Day !!!"

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Grasshopper, I swore I would stay out of this crazy doo doo and I could not agree with you more...only...we still DO have well regulated militias to protect the homeland in the form of state national guards, who keep their boom booms in armories. I leave it to them to fight off the ..fill in the blank..when they come to rape and pillage. They have to receive TRAINING to handle their boom booms in a well regulated manner. National Guard= militia, no?

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Hey Soj -

I appreciate your input and backing.. but ....

National Guard = Militia ?
the correct answer is, I am sorry.. but NO.

A Militia was a regulated group of citizens who could be called to arms in a time of need... therefore their rights to keep and bear arms were not to be infringed.

The National Guard are oath sworn, enlisted soldiers - US Army to be exact - just dispersed into states. They are NOT civilians..

So, I get where you are coming from and you were on track - but no - the Nat. Guard REPLACED Militias..

Ask yourself - do the members of the Guard use their own private AR15s? or are they issued rifles (M16s) by the government? No guardsman has ever has to go to the local gunstore and buy his weapon for duty.

Hopp

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See the entire point of the 2nd was to make sure that civilians, (not army soldiers) could have their own private black powder rifles and bring them to the defense of their state.. The Guard is different in that they are trained and duty bound government employees - not civilians, as I said before.

The reason that this matters and makes a difference at all is that since the are not civilians using privately owned weapons ...the need to have the civilian population armed at all is gone.

That is why I say Nat. Guard does not equal Militia.. yes the Guard does the job the Militias once did... But no, they are not the same thing.

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Brother, I think we are both right on this. Although my dad was regular Army, he was a Master Sargent who was told he had to go to OCS and become a 2nd lieutenant. He later rose to Captain and won a Silver Star in France. Upon his commission, he was assigned to the 45th Infantry, Oklahoma National Guard, 178th Regimental Combat Team. Google them, and you will see they are self described as "Citizen Soldiers" I think it might be potatoes- potahtoes . We all can be called up in times of national emergency . Not trying to quibble or split hairs. I still agree with your rant.

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Ok.. I conceed that much..lol

They are citizen soldiers.. and they do protect the state - I think my mistake was using the word citizen at all.. I should have used "civilian".

I'm not trying to split hairs either.. I get your point. But you see, the whole point of the 2nd was to ensure "civilian soldiers" would have arms - they could keep them and they could bear them.. the amendment could not be any clearer.

See, ALL soldiers are "citizen soldiers" because a soldier does not lose their citizenship when they enlist. However, they are no longer civilians while they are serving their enlistment time.

The 2nd was not written for enlisted soldiers as they would be supplied arms.. It sort of is hair splitting - but the whole point was about the reason behind the addition of the 2nd. That is why I must make this distinction between them - it is an important one.

And,as you know, the Guard can be called up to go abroad to fight full time ay any time on foreign soil.. (I.E. Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11.. ) eeeeverybody went.. but that again is because they're not civilians.. yes citizens, but the words aren't synonymous.

Hopp

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It´s that old definition of State that´s hanging you up bro...like State Police report...where State applies to Nation State and then the 13 Colonies becae States and the whole idea went out the wndow for the little people without all that International Law background (save me and beleive me it was a hard one to pick up at Cambridge...that would be UK not Mass although I did y time at Hahvahd, hated the fact aht they wouldn´t pick me and switched to Smith...but that´s just my story)

... yeah I´m one of those educated elite...still paying debts and ...worked my way through school ...scrubbing toilets. Great preparation for running an Inn where I make my money...scrubbing toilets...

So... everyone hear about the new Navy Ship being chritened the USS Harvey Milk? ...now that´s cool... And yes it s a supply ship...and yes it will service Seaman for decades... and yes there is a sly joke in that for anyone who wishes to see it. And Harvey is laughing...I´m sure he is :)

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Wow, been in the states for a month and ya'all have got down in the snake pit. I see the old wind hag has got her disrespectful trash mouth on as usual. Well wind hag I am also a vet and swore to uphold the constitution. Also happen to agree with the stance Hopper has taken. You don't have to agree with past veterans, but please show some respect for what we were willing to do.
PS. I've got a good in on a coconut farm but you need to move fast. The AC DELCO brake division is movin in on it

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And now back to our question...

Social Security...so I went to the AARP site:

Earlier this year, we invited the candidates for president to tell us their positions on Social Security. On behalf of our readers and members, we asked for detailed responses in writing, but limited to 600 words. What will the candidate do to make Social Security financially sound for future generations? And what specific plans does the candidate have to ensure that Social Security will meet the needs of future retirees? The following responses, provided by the campaigns in their chosen style, were edited slightly and appear in alphabetical order.

— Robert Love, editor in chief, AARP Bulletin

Hillary Clinton
What will you do to make Social Security financially sound for future generations?

Social Security must continue to guarantee dignity in retirement for future generations. Hillary understands that there is no way to accomplish that goal without asking the highest-income Americans to pay more, including options to tax some of their income above the current Social Security cap, and taxing some of their income not currently taken into account by the Social Security system.

Republicans are using scare tactics about the future and effectiveness of Social Security to push through policies that would jeopardize it. The real threat to Social Security is Republican attempts to undermine the bedrock of the system. Hillary believes that Social Security must remain what it has always been: a rock-solid benefit that seniors can always count on—not subject to the budget whims of Congress or to the fluctuations of the stock market. She fought Republican efforts to undermine Social Security when she was a senator and will fight them as president. As president, she would:

Fight any attempts to gamble seniors' retirement security on the stock market through privatization.

Oppose reducing annual cost-of-living adjustments.

Oppose Republican efforts to raise the retirement age—an unfair idea that will particularly hurt the seniors who have worked the hardest throughout their lives.

Oppose closing the long-term shortfall on the backs of the middle class, whether through benefits cuts or tax increases.
What specific plans do you have to ensure that Social Security provides adequate benefits to meet the needs of future retirees?

Hillary firmly believes that we must not cut or privatize Social Security. Hillary will expand Social Security for those who need it most—including women who are widows and those who took significant time out of the paid workforce to take care of their children, aging parents or ailing family members. Hillary will fight to expand Social Security for those who are treated unfairly today. For instance:

The poverty rate for widowed women 65 or older is nearly 90 percent higher than for other seniors—in part because when a spouse dies, families can face a steep benefit cut. For a two-earner couple, those benefit cuts can be as much as 50 percent. Hillary believes that we have to change that by reducing how much Social Security benefits drop when a spouse dies, so that the loss of a spouse doesn't mean financial hardship or falling into poverty.

Millions of women—and men—take time out of the paid workforce to raise a child, take care of an aging parent or look after an ailing family member. Caregiving is hard work that benefits our entire economy. However, when Americans take time off to take care of a relative, that can reduce their Social Security benefits at retirement, since those benefits are calculated based on their top 35 years of earnings. No one should face meager Social Security checks because they took on the vital role of caregiver for part of their career. Americans should receive credit toward their Social Security benefits when they are out of the paid workforce because they are acting as caregivers.
In short, Hillary will ask the most fortunate to pay more so we can expand Social Security, and preserve its guarantee for generations to come.

Donald J. Trump
What will you do to make Social Security financially sound for future generations?

The key to preserving Social Security and other programs that benefit AARP members is to have an economy that is robust and growing. For too long Americans have had a great deal of uncertainty in their lives, and the reforms I will bring to D.C. will remove that uncertainty and will restore confidence in the American economy. First, I will work with Congress to pass and implement a comprehensive tax-reform plan. Aside from dramatically streamlining personal income tax by removing carve-outs for special interests and reducing the number of brackets, we will also seek to eliminate the alternative minimum tax and the death tax. The centerpiece of our tax-reform efforts will be on the corporate side, where we will lower the rate to 15 percent, allow repatriation of offshore capital at 10 percent, stop taxing returned earnings from overseas that have already been taxed, and allow 100 percent expensing for businesses. These reforms will apply to all business enterprises, not just the largest corporate giants.

Tax reform, however, will not be enough. We will need to renegotiate trade deals and impose budget discipline so that we can stop this reckless behavior that continues to increase our debt. We will move to repeal Dodd-Frank and the Affordable Care Act so as to bring market forces to bear that will increase competition and lower costs to consumers.

We will finally mount a campaign to attack fraud, waste and abuse in the government and will examine reducing the size of the federal workforce. We are spending too much money on enterprises that are of little added value in the lives of Americans.

Immigration reform will also allow us to save hundreds of billions of dollars a year in education, health care and public safety costs, while at the same time we will be increasing our security and lowering the threat of drugs in our society.

All of these initiatives are interrelated and will only be effective if we gain bipartisan support for initiatives that will benefit Americans of all ages and stations in life. If we are able to grow the economy, increase the tax base, bring capital and jobs back to the United States and encourage foreign direct investment, we will shore up our entitlement programs for the time being.

What specific plans do you have to ensure that Social Security provides adequate benefits to meet the needs of future retirees?

As was stated above, I will work with Congress to ensure we have a pro-growth agenda in place. If we are able to sustain growth rates in GDP that we had as a result of the Kennedy and Reagan tax reforms, we will be able to secure Social Security for the future. As our demography changes, a prudent administration would begin to examine what changes might be necessary for future generations. Our goal is to keep the promises made to Americans through our Social Security program.

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2016/election-2016-and-social-security.html

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Thanks for conceding the point which, as you pointed out, was beside the point of this very pointed discussion. LOL You were absolutely right about people cherry picking the Bill of Rights, which was written piece meal, to correct flaws in the original document and, hit or miss, for example prohibition and its' repeal, proves that it's a living document. With that, I'll say good night. I'm catching a flight to Quito tomorrow. I look forward to a 2 1/2 month stay in beautiful Ecuador. I'm coming back to Florida in Oct. to cast my ballot.

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Amazing that these veterans know more about the Constitution than the Supreme Court. I agree with the constitution.
Remoore is back and drunk as usual. Welcome home Mr. Brake specialist! Did you take your dime store diploma back to the states with you.

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Hopper, Sojourner!

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
You are wrong. Read it again! Point 1 is about "a well regulated Militia, Point 2 is about "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, Point 3 says "shall not be infringed." Where in the hell did you get the idea point one and two were combined. The Supreme Court agrees with my interpretation. Say what you want, but, you are wrong.

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Wind hag, you can be satisfied with just kissing Ocenviews buns. You dont have to stick your whole head up the poop shoot. Have another bottle of vino

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Didn't one notice the coma,after a well regulated militia?Geez.The right to bear arms comes after that.

Not the other way around.The right of the militia to bear arms.Geez.

What does one expect from senile cretins of the supreme court?

Federal judges are appointed political hacks.Well,about 90%.
In any other branch of govt most of them mandatorily retired 20yrs ago.

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A good point - and one I am happy to exapand upon.

One does not just "change topics" mid sentence.. hell, one does not even change topics mid PARAGRAPH.

See, that is why there rules of grammar in English writing - so that meanings will be clarified and misinterpretations avoided. The men who framed the constitution would abide by these rules even if Supreme Court justices choose to follow the writing skills of a 9 year old's first essay (1st draft).

I work of writing is like a living thing. In biology we recognize a hierarchy.. Organism - Organ System - Organ - Tissue - (and if you want to go on down) - Cells and Molecules..

In writing it is the same.. you have The Work - Chapers - Paragraphs - Sentences - Words;- and the letters make the Molecules..

My point is that a writer must change paragraphs with each and every topic change, and in fact with every speaker change when quoting anyone.. The rule of a correct paragraph (Organ) is the you must be able to take your first sentence, attach your final sentence, and this must make sense and be in correct form.

Never... EVER does a writer (worth a sh#t) switch hit in mid sentence. It is not done.

Therefore the last phrase of that ONE sentence is by default, rule and law of grammar - totally related and dependent on the proceeding.

I can't help if appointed Judges owe their rulings to a party or not - it does not change this.

Hopp

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Ugh..

there should be a ruling on my freaking typos..lol

It is early - I'm still blurry

(god that sounds like a cop out,doesn't it? ;)

...about forgot how fun all this is!

H

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Whuz up Hopp! Great clarification of the 2cnd Amendment.

Now concerning militias. No there has not been the type of militia groups the 2cnd Amendment was designed and written for in like you stated, since the ole cap and ball years.

However, there are civilian ran militia groups spread through out the US quite a few in the area that you and I live in the US. Their main agenda is along (sort of) what the initial founded militia groups were formed for. Some would say they are anti Government groups and to a certain point they are. That is mainly to protect, like the NRA does the 2cnd amendment and their and every American's right to bare arms.

God forbid that a New World Order with policed states should ever come to be in the US but one things for sure, theses civilian ran militia groups would stand proudly with any other American's willing to take a stand against it.

The numbers clearly state that there are far more armed American's (not counting the ones owning without permits) than there are US Military personnel. Therefore I don't think trying to disarm American's will ever come to pass.

Hey there are plenty of fruity politicians 2 of which are running for the Prez so hey you never know right?

Take care Hopp and enjoy Ecuadorland!

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Yo Moody-D

You holding down the fort in Charlottesville for us? lol..

Man, I have been getting heat reports. Bring a coat when ou come - you are gonna need it!

Yeah.. it is borderline hypocrisy for me to even be on a rant - given my own personal firearm fetish,,

I think my major argument was on the grammar and original intent of a sentence.. By no means do I want to abolish or keep guns out of the hands of good people.. it is however gotten to such an insane point in the US that we're just going to have to bit the bullet (pun intended) and let some better background checks be pulled without freaking the f#ck out over every little thing..

It isn't cool to wait around until our own daughter's brains are hanging off our chin to actually consider reason without having a goddamn panic attack.. ya know?

Cool to hear from you - hit me PM and let me know the hot-skinny at home, bro

Hopper

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WIND...."Pencils cause spelling errors."

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PAcountryboy,
Looks like we find ourselves back on the same page again. I missed your point on the "pencil."
If any one dares, google the history of the second amendment. There is some great reading about the history of the second amendment. It breaks it down clearly. Seems like the framers were concerned about the tyranny of governments, and about the citizens rights to own weapons (similarly to the right of free speech) and defend itself.

My concern is this, does passing laws giving the government a right to interfere or infringe on 330,000,000+ peoples constitutional rights prevent gun crimes from occurring? Can the background checks be managed in such a manner that it stops the crazies of the world from obtaining weapons to do others harm.
In light of the problems and lack of control of our current "no fly lists" I see it becoming a cluster f just like the rest of governments projects.
I agree with everyone that people use guns, box cutters, trucks, cars, bombs, poisons, etc. to kill others.
I think the remedies lie in laws and the enforcement of laws that attempt to control the few that would choose to do harm to others.
Do you think, seriously think, that passing a written law encumbering 330,000,000 someones right to purchase a gun will stop the violence? If you believe that tell me why because I just don't get it. Or, is government looking for ways to disarm a potential opponent, the citizens, for future events? This was a major concern for the crafting the wording of the amendment.
Chicago has some of the toughest gun ownership laws on the books. The Supreme Court has even said their laws go way beyond what was set forth in the constitution. Shootings abound, people die, and the gun crime rate increased. Next to none of the guns were purchased legally under current laws.
Passing restrictive purchasing laws become only an encumbrance on the law abiding citizens, give government controls toward disarming the law abiding citizens, and will only leave those that obey laws defenseless. The criminals will do what criminals do.
Personal ownership, henceforth the right of unencumbered purchase, weighs heavily on a protection against a tyrannical government. We have a tyranniical government now in many ways.
I agree with you PAcountryboy. I like knowing we have militias that are a check and balance to governments, armed to the hilt! I also know that gun laws only restrict those that obey the law.

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He was making a tongue i cheek analogy.. I believe..

pencils cause spelling errors
like
guns kill people

I didn't miss it

H

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Hopper,
Thanks for the translation! Somethings go right over my head. That is funny!
Pacountryboy, yu berry berry witty dude! I like that!

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WIND... .:> )))) That's what I get for trying to be clever. FYI... My security system is: a pump shotgun, a 38, three dogs and a sign in the front yard "WE DON'T CALL 911!" I was attempting at taking a cheap shot at the gun control people that say "Guns kill people."i.e., Pencils cause spelling errors"....NOT! I once saw a bumper sticker in San Antonio, "GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE...TEXANS KILL PEOPLE!". The 2nd amendment was designed for self protection then and still applies today. There, I said it and I'm stickin' to it! Make it a great day or else! :> )))

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See....HOPPER got it. :> ))))

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WIND....THX...back at ya. :> )))

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I read this quote and I thought of it when you were talking about controls on 2nd amendment rights:
“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”

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Just to put ths whole discussion about the Bill of Rights into perpsective, it was written by James Madison, a member of the Continental Congress and became law on December 15, 1791..

The Bill of Rights did not apply to all Americans—and it wouldn’t for more than 130 years. At the time of its ratification, the “people” referenced in the amendments were understood to be land-owning white men only.

Under that wording... the 2nd amendment only applies to white men who own real estate...

Since it does not, it is easy to see that in fact the 2nd amendment has changed and altered with the times before and therefore there is ample precedent to do so again without infringing on the rights enumerated.

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Ugh Politics. :) Always hard to discuss this, for there are 3 sides. The 2 hard sides and the middle. Most people are in the middle and are able to listen to both sides and agree with parts of both parties to varying degrees. Both candidates are not the answer, they are both horrible egotistic, above-the-law types of personalities. And lets be honest, how much power does the President have? Not that much. The congress and house hold all the power with checks and balances, and they are even worse crooks and d-bags than the two candidates.

Every law or idea has drawbacks to some portion of the nation. Obama care - let many have access to healthcare that couldn't before, which is awesome. It also forces people to pay for healthcare even if they can't afford it or they pay a penalty on their taxes. Healthcare plans for middle America were reduced in service for more money. A majority of people that had medical beforehand, pay more now for less benefits. My brother-in-law can't afford the $250 more a month he has to pay for medical than he did before, so he has no medical now. So it is benefit and drawback. Goes for Gunlaws, Immigration, Taxes, Education and everything. Some benefit while others lose out...

ahhh well, should be an interesting run to November. Most likely get a different parties in all 3 branches and we will have 4 years of gridlock...

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MANTAT....Sorry, buddy, but I have to vehemently disagree that the president has very little power!!!! Obama has changed America into a socialist democracy and if you think the appointment of Supreme Court Justices isn't significant, your smokin' the wrong stuff. :> (((

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if I had a good 50 cal. right now I would change and alter the blue car across the damned street to a state of silence

how long can a car alarm keep making that god-awful noise before the battery DIES????

...I need a xanax

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Hey Hopp, I've got some Valiums and a AK 47 type on steroids that would work! Oh snap I'm a bit too North to get it to you though. Hey I sent you an email earlier, get it?
Moody-D

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Hopp,
You are a newbie! The alarms, the alarms, the alarms! God they drive me crazy. I am just beginning to tune them out. That is the National Bird Song of Ecuador! Just wait for the parties to start. They never end, just go and join in!

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Moody Blue,
Takes something much stronger! Try stabbing yourself in the ears with an ice-pick, might offer some relief.
The is the single reason you can't own a gun here! You would use it.

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God Windyone..

I know lol.. I KNOW!! the birds THE BIRDS!! ( "...oh so lovely, their song - their souls.." )

I do know though.. in G Gulch 4 years ago.. it was very very active every night.. and I lost my mind.. over time.. a month to be exact..

Then I moved to where I am now.. in an Ecuadorian neighborhood on the south edge of town.. and t'was better, si, muy mucho.. pero este día era diferente !

The car alram was right outside my window, and it went on for almost 3 hours without letting up.. and all the dogs in our neighborhood ..they wanted to help! So thy came and to try to help - they all barked at it to stop. (I thank them for trying)

So with whoop whoop! here.. and a woof woof there.. it was a grand time indeed!

lol.. one thing good about torture.. when it stops, there is bliss

Hopp

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Oh yeah -

we absolutely have block parties down here.. they have good live music and I acually enjoy them even at 2am ..the sound of that is great (seriously) ..they stopped last Sat night at 3 on the dot.

I was a little bit sad when it did

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We had a guy in ANconcito and his car alarm would go off every night at the same time... he was a fisherman and didn´t even know it as happening. Eventually the neighbors got tired of it...and they would just open his car, pop the hood and disconnect the battery... every night.

And it´s true about the music, you can learn to sleep with it and just sleep deeper when it ends. WHich is usually at 3am since you need to shut down completely by 4am and that gives everyone time to pitch in and clean up and roll the drunks home...

Here in Montanita Monday and Tuesday night is when the locals finally relax...and often there are small gatherings on the street ...One night I wandered downstairs about 2am...and the kids got quiet and concenred...I shrugged and said I wasn´t bothered by their partying, the laughter and music was loud and they were rather tipsy... I was hungry and wondered if anything might still be open? Well there is a guy on the corner who sells seco de pollo (chicken fricasee) and encebollado (tuna soup) and other typical food served over rice... and he just laughed.gave me a kiss on the cheek ... poured out a bowl for me...pulled up a chair...sat me down (in my PJs) .and ther I am, part of the party :) ...no charge ...

... really good seco too... shared the rest of the rice with my dog kids...then we all muddled back up to bed with cheers all around !
...and

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Grasshopper,
You one crazy tar heel! lol

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OH,
Oh yeah! Now that is living the good life.

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The sounds of the jungle at night is what I'm interested in :-)

Fresh air nature.

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Now Ms.Shadow, How can you make such a statement without even knowing me? I respect firearms. enjoy target practice and firearms period. Does that make me a psycho killer??? While you say if I had one there I would use it is a ludicrous. Again, you do not know me! Ice picks in the ears? With that type of thinking it would seem you may be the one coo coo on coco puffs!

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Traniquilo D

WS was making a joke about the severity of the noise pollution we have to get used to here.. lol

and the saying "you would use it" was just generaliztion ...meaning the same as "one would use it"

relax and pass those valium over here..
(why? ...you may ask?... )

,,,because DHL shipped my Xanax here from Guayaquil yesterday.. then couldn't find my package when I went to pick them up -

(why? ..again you are welcome to ask..? lol)

because somehow they managed to shuffle it off to Buffalo.. well Qutio actuall but still,.. I weren't too happy about it but it'll be BACK here today I think..

aaanyway, nobobody's dissin' on you

....share a personal tidbit with everyone.. I am physically incapable of sending a text to a girl without it being misread - a total loser at it..

seriously - I have to put in disclaimers like "now hon.. don't read this as sh*tty.. because it isn't"

and more - sometimes I have to put in the subect line of emails "100% safe to read" - I am dead serious,,lol

again, texting is the reason behind 38% of breakups (and 85% of getting cut off..lol) -- and also probably the reason I get to be such a stickler for grammer.. probably trying to fix my own flat tire or something

....who knows ?

Hopp

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Sup Hopp, Yeah after re-reading shadows post I can see she was joking around about what she said. I was 1/2 a sleep when I read it and "thought" she meant that I needed something stronger (the Valium thing) and as for "I would use it" because my guess is because the alarms are so friggn' annoying that I or maybe others would to get some peace!

I apologize shadow girl, I've always enjoyed your posts and you seem pretty cool.

Moody-D

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Moody Blue,
Don't be offended.
I said, to paraphrase, "The alarm noise is so bad it takes something stronger to deal with it. If you stab yourself in the ears with an Icepick, that might make the noise go away and give you some relief, nothing else works. The noise can be so bad at times using an AK-47 seems like a good remedy to the problem." OK? Chill out a bit! If I were being serious you would know it. BTW, where are you from? I have heard some use the word "snap" but I am basically unfamiliar with its use.

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Morning shadow, Yeah if you read the last part of my reply to Hopp I was 1/2 a sleep when I read that post. I get it now, I'm awake! It's all good. Where am I from? Another phrase you may or may not have heard, as far as the Crow flies from Hopp's home, Charlotte NC. I'll be headed to Ecuador land in a little over a year after early retirement and a pension I'm getting now. I'm ready girl! Again, I'm aware of what you meant ice picks and all........now so peace! Oh the snap thing, it's the same as saying oh crap pretty much.

Moody-D

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see.. we can all play together!

...now.. if you will excuse me my xannies are back in town..

Joey Ramone said it best -
(and no.. I am not explaining that one too... )
..see if you can figure out what i mean..lol

Hopp

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Moody Blue--Hopper,
ahhh, maybe U-2?

"All is good in Dallas Mr. President, I think we can ride with the top down."

When we trade freedom for security we will surely lose both. (I know, I know, Franklin didn't say it exactly that way but he was much more eloquent than I)

Moody, I moved here from Wrightsville Beach. Had a home in North Wilksboro too but my ex deservingly owns that now. lol

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Windy,

I really like Wrightsville... I had a house in North Topsail on the water.. (well, Sneads Ferry on the inlet, but just across the bridge from Topsail. Sneads is where I had that last bike wreck in Nov of 2014.. that is what kept me from coming down last year - I was still healing up. But I love the Outer Banks and liked riding down Hwy 12 from Nag's Head to Okracoke, then the 2 hour ferry to Cedar Island and beck home... (we do indeed have a lot of paralells..lol

As for North Wilkboro up in the mountain.. when I still had the TV shop in Gastonia, one of my techs was from there.. from a long line of Moonshiners.. (yesssss :) Every year around Christmas time he would drive up and come back with a trunk full of White Lighening and Moonshine (there's a difference, although most do not know this - One is single run distilled and the other is triple run.. and smoother. We called him Moose.. he would also bring a couple of cases of "Peaches" ...whish is Moonshine with 3 big peaches in the jar (I'm sure you know that..jaja)

We would set up a Christmas tree stand and sell them from the my shop parking lot ...and sit and sip Peaches and Shine from jars to stay warm.

That was back around 1990.. had some good times with that shop! I had just expanded and moved to a bigger building on Franklin Blvd.. put on 4 more techs and incorperated (LLC) - it was Freedom Enterprises Inc. DBA Best TV .. I had warrant contracts with almost every manufacturer.. so we got to attend all of the product update classes they held in Charlotte.. the other smaller shops could attend.. so my partner and I would hold classes and teach their techs the new updates for 100 bucks a head per class. That itself was pretty profitable.. (since Keith and I got to attend them for free)

...the good old days!

Hopp

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So guys...

I can call you guys, right?

What do you think about the GOP getting ready to do a TRUMP Intervention?

You folks are the Party of Reality Television... really! So it´sgonna be televised on FOX? Instead of the debates? so it doesn´t interefere with football?

And for the record...Obama´s been in office ofr 8 years and you still have your guns...
...but we have had more mass killing...

Should I quote the statistics for Emails by Colin & Condoleeza? ANd we don´t know if they were classified, you do know that Hillary´s weren´t...just saying....

And do I ned to remind you how many Embassy Bombing and deaths occurred during sy Bush, I repeat Bush...and Reagan (remember?) Where was the righteous indignation then? And may I point out that we were FULLY funded then as opposed to ... 9/11/20012 ...yeah no one recalls it was the OTHER 9/11 attack and this was the only one that happened because...gosh folks...our team actually won! you didn´t hear that the other attempts failed, because THAT didn´t make the news in the USA. Try reading the Jerusalem ¨Post...they carry that sort of thing. Yeah records of terror attacks FAILED.

Oh and that is why the USA pays Israel, or one of the reasons. The other is for things like the Counter Terror summit taking place right now. Guess who is in attendance? Oh bunch of American police chiefs... particularly the ones from Orland, San Bernadino... let me go check who else..

http://www.thetower.org/3734-u-s-police-chiefs-visit-israel-to-learn-how-to-fight-terror-threats/
...and of course those really cool technologies and stuff ..

So what haven´t we touched on?

And oh yes when they take Trump out in a straight jacket... and apologize for the inconveninec and quickly put ...oh who knows...into that place... are you still going to trust the platform? or will you have another ...nicer...we really mean it this time...convention?

I think Hillary has this one, and it´s time to bow out gracefully for the good of the country and come across the aisle and start working out a mutually beneficial cross party document that the People of America can actually vote for.

The Presidential Gold ges to Hillary/Kaine... Silver definitely Bernie Sanders...and I hope to see him hard at work in the Senate...perhpas Majority leader

And Bronze, a tie: ELizabeth Warren and... Jeb Bush... for putting family first. He did well by Florida and he saw when to get outo f the way. His mother was the spokesperson of the family. That is an American Dynasty and ...

Clinton won´t have it so easy in 2020 when she runs against... JEB...

... ANd now...welcome to Real Party Politics... and welcome aboard opportunities for the younguns to perhaps... help revive a Multi Party system ... that starting fom the Congress.... and then with more Senators from third parties (like Independent (originally) Bernie Sanders...who made one helluva run...as a third party/not third party candidate... we are seeing the ushering in of a new generation of interest in politics.

The USA is growing up... We had our adolescent cherry popped in 9/11 ...one hell of a rape.

Now we are finding out...it´s really scarey out there and let´s face it... we need a real professional at the helm. Yes, politics is a professional business. It can be very ugly, or it can be benevolent. That is the science of politics, or as we study it in college, political science.

You can´t learn it all in a day or a 3 months or one elections cycle...or in GOV 101 either... it takes a long time and a world view.

And now... I think I´ll go read a romance novel... Even Captain Janeway read romance novels...

Susan

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Trump has got this in the bag.No doubt.One doesn't deal in NYC RE without knowing the ins and outs of every trick in the book.
100 days in politics is a long time.

Either he has naked pictures of Hillary or he wears a No Ma-aM T-shirt with Hillary's face a big red circle around it with a diagonal line crossed thru it to the debate.That'd appeal to a lot of people.

Bush couldn't even place in Florida his home state.Trump is pompous because he's got this in the bag.

Further proof is Obama entering the fray, which isn't done.A presiding president doesn't usually go after a
nominee unless something is afoot.
They're very very scared.

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Has Donald Trump been in the business of Real Estate in NYC? Yes. And his name is on a lot of properties.

DOes he actually still own them ...in fact what is his net worth... well that we really don´t know... because he refuses to let us see his TAX RETURNS...

Funny about that.

Old college friend of mine, bugs her too. And she´s done something about it. Yeah ...go Tammy! She can, she´s the US Senator from Wisconsin... Tammy Baldwin.

Introduced a bill to make Presidential Candidates have to share their Tax Statements ...

As for Mr. Trump, even his own party wants him to show them:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/two-wealthy-donors-offer-reward-for-donald-trumps-tax-returns/

See he may not really be who he claims to be:

http://fortune.com/2016/03/02/donald-trump-tax-returns-income/

ANd that´s ...even more unsettling...than the whole "gosh I always wanted one of these" purple heart story...

This is a man crying for help. He really wants out. But he created this huge Ferris Wheel and he can´t seem to get off because ...he´s not in control of this monster anymore. His constituency is. And some of them are really nasty and ugly folks. Even he´s scaring himslef. And he wants to stop!

He even yelled at a baby... come on...the President does not yell at babies!

And do we even have to mention pushing the nuclear button? Oh...we already did...

And the Russian connection...

Has anyone spken about that yet?

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Trump has something in the bag alright..

K2.. Spice.. maybe some bath salts?

DDR.. Anyone who gets handed a fortune and a laundry list of conections has a good chance of making some real estate deals.. it's not like he ever pulled himself up by his own bootstraps.. at all.. ever..

And s for tricks.. you think that tricks are a virtue? the man has had more bankruptcies than cater has little pills ( and if you are young you probably don't know what I mean. Those are tricks - but there is nothing good about them.. or him in my opinion, because the man filed them to keep his loot instead of actually trying to fix his f##k ups.. and in doing so he destroyed the honest contractors thathad trusted him, putting all the hard workers that were employed by them OUT of work.. all while bragging about how he has given so many people work.. no he gave a ton of people the glorious gift of having their homes foreclosed on and going on walfare and food stamps.. these are facts.. not hot fart air like comes out of his mouth..

Windshadow.. I know our stance on disliking both candidates.. and that you have said that Trump scares you..

Well my friend.. be afraid.. be very afraid. You know I am half a brain - I've admitted as much.. but that hlf works very very well, and I think perhaps you know that as well..

Being able to push buttons and get people riled up does not a leader make.

Here are a couple of facts as well..
- the man actually looks up to Vladimir Putin and has said, "I have to give Putin an A on leadership"

- The man actually said that the US "...giving Canada their independence was a huge mistake.. a HUGE mistake!"
(he serious thought that the were part of the US) ...and went on to tell the interviewer on FOX NEWS that if he was elected he would take Canada back.. (seriously?) ...and he said of the Canadians - "They will respect me!" ...no they laugh at his overgrown OompaLoompa ass is what they do.. as does the rest of the world.. (save Russia maybe.. he gets a lot of press there.. wonder why?)

- The man (no sh#t) when asked a question about states said that "..well I think we had 52 before we lost Puerto Rico and Canada" (whaaaa...?!?)

and the list goes on.. he preaches he will make America great again.. but as I have pointed out elswhere.. he had a hand in the collapse of the US Steel Industry (ever been to Pittsburgh? I have and it is a sad sight) because he was too cheap and unpatriotic to but American.. Trump Towers and most of his other "Real Estate" projects are made from cheap Chinese steel he man bought to save a few bucks.. these are his "tricks" - and as a friend reminded me, he also put in the cheapest, (non american) drywall that turned out to be highly toxic.. and had to be ripped out - it made any sick and actually killed a lot of people..

Why.. because he was "Making the Donald Great Again" ...not America.. not at all!

During the Primaries he actually said, "The only real difference between me and the rest of the candidates, are that my women are hot"

And DDR.. He refuses to give up his tax returns.. and that makes him the ONLY presidential candidate who HASN'T made their return public.. and I don't want to hear that "oh.. he is waiting for the IRS to finish their audit.." because ..duuuh.. the IRS doing an audit.. first off, has zero bearing on him releasing them.. he could but won't.. and secondly and even worse.. the head of the IRS has publicly aid they only were even DOING an audit on the man "..because Mr trump's returns were highly suspicious".

This man also said.(and I promise this is the last one I will write - but definitely not because it is all there is) "i felt like I was in the Military. In fact, I probably got more training than a lot of people who were in the military"

NO!! going to an expensive prep school, wearing some uniform and marching is NOT like being in the military.. and the man "derferred" (dodged) the draft 5 damn times..

So, if you think some draft dodging idiot who stiffs his contractors and buys cheap foreign materials for his buildings and files chapter 13s at the drop of a hat and thinks we use to own Canada while telling us how he is great because his women are hot... OH YEAH... and all his BS about making US companies be fined for outsourcing while HIS lines of Trump products are almost all made in overseas sweatshops making him even MORE of a hypocrite ...has some bags of tricks that are in any way American - or even sightly ethical - and that this makes him even remotely a sane choice to be the leader of our great country... nay, leader of the free world? go on and put him in office.. because you say he "has this in the bag? well if so, be prepared to stick you heads in that bag too - but I am warning you.. iy is made of plastic.. and mom told me, quite wisely too.. not to put plastic bags over my head..

Yes yes oh hell yes.. be very afraid.. Paul Ryan, Rep speaker of the house sure is - as he flat out refuses to endorse the man.. and Ryan is not a fool.

Hopper

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Yeah you are right about one thing.. the president hs gone after Trump because - in your own words - something IS afoot..

You may refer to my above post for just a few of the things that may be.

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Obama was the 54 states guy :-)
Puerto Rico is BROKE as is the US
(well at least insolvent).There is no requirement to disclose taxes to anyone but the IRS.Income taxes aren't net worth disclosure.Oh, why does Warren Buffoon support the status quo? Because the TARP bailed out the uber wealthy.Didn't Buffoon lose like 11% last year?Why the hell did CITI get bailed out ten times in twenty years?Things that make me go Hmmm.

The status quo is threatened by Trump as he wasn't in their plans.

I don't think he can cure the ills that were brought on by his predecessors.

Most LA/SA countries are in better financial shape than the US.
look at Venezuela and that's the US's future.Not pretty.But that's what happens when one buys votes with government largess.

The US economy is being based on Face Book and Netscape.Not going to work out too well IMHO.

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Two corrections above post for DDR

netscape should read netflix.

Every president disclosed their 1)academic records and 2)health records.

Except: 1)Obama & 2)B.Clinton

What's the deal with tax disclosure? It's not required.

Then I don't get why anyone would support unsound economic policies
of either Sanders or Clinton.Their numbers are not reality. The doubling of the national debt in the last 8 years is going to bite them in the ass really hard.

Here's the truth:
According to govt stats which are skewed to their favor.Since the height of the '08 recession poverty is up 20%.If that's what the govt admits,
then it's really 35-40%.

In 1994 the unemployment rate formula was changed.If they counted all the ones that would have been counted in the 1930's depression at that formula used not 5% now stated rather 40%. In the 1930's unemployment was 25%.

There are less people working in the US than in 2000 and only a little more than 2007.WoW.

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It just don't matter! Politicians have been screwing the country into the ground for years. If you think the criminal Clintons or the criminal Trumps can or will do anything other than help themselves to the taxpayers money, you are in denial.
The real honest solution lies in the power of the electorate to remove the career politicians, all 535 of them. Clean house!
We need a revolution, not with guns and knives, but with the mind. I think we can agree the people are being polarized against one another. An old military strategy called "divide and conquer."
Relax, let it fall apart with Clinton or Trump. Start working on a plan to rebuild. OR, take back of government from those that are killing it.
Here is how to do it, by Buffet:

*Congressional Reform Act of 2011*

1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/17. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term's), then go home and back to work.

If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S.) to receive the message. Maybe it is time.

THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!!!!! If you agree with the above, pass it on.

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DDR....I am sick and tired of people taking cheap shots at Hillary about her propensity for lying. Not true! She told the truth yesterday about her tax p[an.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTnN13AaMbQ

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This is one election that is really frucked up for the American people.

It seems to me that it's not which one you want to run the country for 4 years but which one you definitely would not want running the country for 4 years.


Both clearly have their faults, lots of them, both have been caught in lies, one is a career politician the other a career in business.

Trump keeps putting his foot in his mouth the more he talks in a very negative way and Hillary is considered by most Americans as dishonest and untrustworthy.

If Hillary wins she'll be the first female President. If Trump wins he'll be the first to win since George Washington solely on strength and greatness.

My choice was Trump simply because my belief is that perhaps he may actually be running for the people for a change but then he goes and puts his foot in his mouth again.

I'm seriously stumped on this election.

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DDR, That was a funny video! I'm fairly sure she meant for "lower taxes for the middle class" to come out of her mouth but hey it's Hillary so who really knows..........but her.

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Just to keep things on the up and up...

That whole thing about Donald Trump claiming Canada was given away by the USA...was a satire article.

Folks might want to fact check their sources...

I do.

And I give my sources... so you can go check on them.

It´s what a researcher does: allows others to follow the trail.

So let´s talk Presidential tax Transparency:

Here is the Bill that has been brought before the Senate:

http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Presidential%20Tax%20Transparency%20Act%20of%202016.pdf

And this is why it is so important:

Because a tax return is not just a bunch of numbers. It’s a snapshot of your financial life. Not only do you have a better understanding of where taxable income comes from (like Buffett, I suspect much of Trump’s income is tax favored), you can see potential failures in losses (although you can lose money on paper and still win at tax time) and worrisome positions with investments and loans. You also have a picture of what a taxpayer might find important. When it comes to taxpayers who itemize, you can learn about charitable deductions (not simply how much but where it’s distributed), real estate taxes (abatements, for example), real estate holdings and more. You can also glean information about the existence offshore accounts, household employees and other holdings.

So why won´t Donald Trump release his?

you can learn a lot from a tax return and Trump understands this. It’s likely the reason he’s been so guarded with his returns and not only with respect to the presidential campaign. Remember he is being sued (overall he has more than 3,000 cases and over 1200 are still causes in action.)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2016/05/25/senate-bill-would-require-presidential-candidates-including-tax-to-release-tax-returns/#4c72c4807b3f

And keep in mind that unlike Romney in 2012, who did release all but his prior years taxes by January of the elction year, and the final year by September 12, Trump has released nothing.... nada...zilch.

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I had to open an extra tab so I could refer back to the last few posts, and address them without my foot into MY mouth... ( Like The Donald, as my friend Moody-D pointed out :)

(as if there is a damn chance I won't do it anyway.. jaja)

Ok... DDR.. yours first my brother..
First off... where in the world did you get these "facts" and numbers, man? I want this to be a civil discussion.. as it should be! I won't call anyone an idiot or any low brow crap like that... Let's be grown men and women here capable of discussion and exchange of thoughts and opinions... but let us
base these on truths and facts instead of what we have read on facebook reposts of crap posters ( I mean the biased hate signs generated en mass by political websites and groups - not human posters... to make that clear )



DDR... I would like to point out some real facts and numbers... and to everyone - whether you like Obama or hate him... there are some things to consider. Facts to be specific..

And to my friend Moody.. i know you like Trump.. but in addition to the terrible flaws the man has, he is just such a liar it brings a new meaning to the word.. You said he had "strength and greatness" well, yes.. according to Trump he certainly has both.. ( according to Trump) ...but that's the problem here - all his supporters listen to him tell us how great he is and how Obama has destroyed this country.. So for anyone who believes the man.. I can see why they think this to be the case. But there are reliable and on partisan sources with facts.. and then thee is Trump who says whatever the hell he wants to.. and flat out lies.. pulling dead rabbits out of his hat and calling them suitable for pets for kids..lol It blows my mind to hear him say America has been destroyed by the current administration and the Obama is the worst president in history - and "intentionally trying to destroy our country" -- First off.. ask yourself.. 'why wold he or anyone do such a thing? If one hates Obama - I suppose they like hearing tha.. but people should use reason an understand that no president would "try" to destroy this country..

and if simple logic will not prevail.. let's look at hard facts.

I never fail to be dumbfounded how short many American's memories apparently are.. Do we not remember 2008? this country was in a downward spiral ..not jut a historic recession... but a true free fall that we mat never have recovered from,, ever.

The auto industries were shutting down.. the major banks were folding and as much as people like to protest the bail out.. do you not understand that had these banks folded - we would have folded as a nation immediately following them.. The stock market had tanked - I mean it was bottoming out! millions lost their savings, retirement and investments, because the money actually just vanished from the market.. completely... gone.. nada.. zilch point sh*t..
- when the man came into office, he inherited a nightmare. If he hadn't turned things around.. it would have the end of our way of life as we know it... and it almost was.

but I can say these things as easily as Trump can say the opposite. Let's look at some facts.. the stock market ..the Dow Jones industrial Average as our largest indicator Had gone from over 14,000,, 6000.... (as Trump would say,himself, "This is bad.. it;s very very
people"

and he would be very very right!

Before I go into the stock market and by that I mean the economy.. I think DDR has siad soething about the unemployment rate and job creation...

First off, let me say that your use of a formula that turns 5% into 40% is not just wrong.. it is nuts.. (not calling you a nut.. but I don't know where you get this poppycock. It is not a formula, it is a hard and fast percentage - and I can only guess that you heard either trump say it.. of it could be something Hannity on FOX news told you.. or you could just be writing whatever you want to write.. I don;t really know.. And you say there are less jobs ad people working, which is also wrong.. (and bafflingly crazy)..

here are the numbers - 6,371,000 jobs were created since Obama took office.. more actually, since that is the numbers of Dec of last year.. and more have been created since then..
( that is six million, three hunderd and seventy one thousand.. jobs.. new jobs.. created. So I don;t know how you can say there are less jobs now - because there have been... 6,371,000 more jobs than when he took office. This is not a made up number, that how many more people are employed today...

As for the actual unemployment rate itself.. ok..
- let us acknowledge what is true.. it is down to 5.6% as of last year.. (and has dropped more since then. this is 2.2% lower than when he took office.

In Obama's first 6 years, he added almost 5 times more jobs to the market that Bush did during his entire 8 year tenure.. ( 5 X more than Bush's entire 8 year presidency ...no sh*t.

What about some other very important things, then? There are a lot.. where to start,, where to start?

How about our county's oil production?
..our production of crude has risen 76% since he took office.. which is a hell of lot!

But what about the amount we import??
which we don't want to import - in case anyone is unsure.... we don't.
- petrol imports in the US are DOWN over 55%. (that is a good thing.. - if you were not sure).

Exports on Goods and Services? ..UP 39%

Wind and Solar power production? UP 248% (that's Two Hundred and Forty Eight Percent)...

I have more.. and I am going to list these things.. if you care to check my facts..lol feel free.. there's a highly relied upon and reputable site.. t chck facts.. it is called FACT CHECKER,com

you know, the one where the world goes to ..um.. check facts... lol

I have to take a break.. eat something.. more to come!

OH NO..wait - DDR.. what the hell does medical records and academic records have to do with squat? Are you serious or just high? We kow where they went to school.. do you want to know whether those two got detention hall or what?

And no, Tax ruturns are not mandatory - but they are, at least, RELEVANT!! ...you are grasping at straws ...and and really making yourself looking ignorant in the process..

Tax returns show what was paid, what was earned.. and mostly how fair and honest a person is!! Trump refuses to turn his over.. and (as I said) is being audited because his returns looked suspicious.. AND he is the only candidate ever to refuse to do so..

And I can guess why too.. the man bragged about beig worth 10 billion dollars.. it has been estimated that it is a lot closer to 3 billion..
Which is a LOT of money.. but if he releases these forms and is proven to have lied to the American people.. by 7 BILLION dollars.. what could anyone posiblt ever trust him with.. what kind of man tells that big of a lie? ...I would be worried too..

for the moment,
Hopper






''

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Congratulations Hopper!
Lot's of number for the Obama administration.
Lots of information about his lying.
Appears you put a lot of work into this.
Appears you have proven that:
BOTH CANDIDATES ARE USELESS LIARS THAT SHOULD NOT BE RUNNING THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF THE GOVERNMENT!
Hillery has FBI proof that she is a LIAR, I am not sure about Trump but I expect the same.
You are making my argument for me, why vote for either of those twisted people?
I enjoy your responses but why are you wasting your time with a proven jack wad like DDR?

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!President be to Stewart Jon force and time in back go s'Let

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Hooper, old friend,
You're up against two walls here. First is the " Don't Confuse Me With the Truth, I've Got My Mind Made Up " crowd, who, no matter how logical and well-reasoned your arguments are, they ain't gonna buy it - no way, no how !
The second wall ( if you could call it that ) are the " Preaching To the Choir " group, who pretty much agree with you and therefore don't need convincing.
THERE"S NOBODY LEFT IN THE MIDDLE !!
I am a lifelong Independent, both in my politics and world view.
No amount of pro Donald or anti Hillary sentiment convinces me that the man is not a dangerous megalomaniac and a psycho- sociopath ( History records hundreds of highly successful individuals who were psychopathic ). Trump fits the clinical definition to a tee - which begs the question: Is this man fit to govern the United States ?
I realize that a lot of white males of a certain age and economic bracket feel threatened by a woman President, just as they do by a African-American one. So be it. That's the monster under their bed - not mine !
With a little less than 100 days left until the election, and after assiduously studying the candidate's conduct since the conventions, I would be willing to wager ( and I do so with trepidation ) that Trump has a complete meltdown prior to the election.
Failing that, should he lose in November ( and he's setting up this scenario as I write ), he will so inflame his followers with claims of a "rigged" election that could very well explode into violence unseen since the race riots in the 60's !
This is one of the few times in my life where I sincerely pray I am wrong. But I'm afraid it may prove true.

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moody
I would vote for John Stewart.

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Hey Susan..
I did check out that story (Canada) because I was not believing it.. And maybe I am wrong here.. but what came up with was that it was an actual interview.. but then afterwards his people said that it was a joke.

Again.. probably wrong.. but I did do my best to check it out to see if the interview happened... and if the article was satire all the way around.. well haha. ad egg on me.. ;) brcause if the asticle was , and they're never was the interview.. it seems they went multi level with the joke.

Now.. be that as it may - the post I put up just a bit ago,, with the numbers on the economy and crude production.. Job numbers, unemplyment percentages.. exports of goods and services.. etc.. (and I hadn't even gotten to the helthcare figures.. Oh I checked the hell out of that! lol

- Kaiser Family Foundation
- Bureau of Labor Statisics
- Congressonal Budget Office
- Dept, of Health and Human Services
- Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis
- US Deparment of Agriculture: Food and Nutrition Service
- Federal Bureau of Investigation
- US Energy Administration

....and others.. or "et al" lol

anyway - good post and good call..thanks.. My second post was very thoroughly referenced!

Thanks,
Hopp

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LOL WindyBreeze..

yes I agree with you and thanks..

I tried to be accurate and double checked things - as Susan pointed out.. I had made reference to a satirical piece on that first post.

I got tired and had to take a break - I was going to respond to you and Moody as well.. but my eye got heavy.. DDR ..well I HAD to address his/hers post, since it attempted to compare health and academic records with a tax return.. which is just. ugh why???

anyway.. it was interesting to see these numbers stand in such stark contrast to the things the man says,,

I would like to say he has balls to do so.. but the word nuts just fits so much better.. lol

Hopp

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You are spot on windshadow. Politics should not be a career.

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Hahahaa.. Moody..

Thanks for the chuckle and the time travel!

..that was funny

I wish we could travel back in time..
(we CAN travel forward in time however!)

no, seriously.. it is possible (it isn't politcal.. and it isn't theoretical.

Did you know this? It is relativity. And, it ha been proven and it has been done.

If one travels, or moves, through space (anywhere.. I do not mean "outer space". they experience time dialation - in other words time slows down for the traveler in relation to a stationary observer..

An example is say, an astronaut who board a ship and travels at 99.9% the speed of light. Let us say he travels the distance of one light year. For anyone observing the traveler, they will see him travel one light year and it will take him 99.9% of one year to make the journey.. right?

But the for the traveler, approximately 2 months will pass. If he travels this speed (in say, a circle) and returns home after the end of the journey.. he will have aged 2 months while his friends at home have aged (almost) one year.. so he has literally traveled forward in time 10 months.

This has been demonstrated, alhough we do not have the ability (yet) to travel that fast... but it still has been proven.

Atomic clocks are extremely accurate and can measure very small amounts of time (as in 1/100,000,000th of a second.

So, we have synced two or more clocks.. one or more will be on the ground, stationary.. while one will be on a jet liner. The jet can travel around the world, maybe a time or two, then land. When the clocks are compared ...the on that was moving displays less time having passed than the one that was on the ground,

Granted, the difference is minuscule.. but there is a difference none the less.

The jet has literally traveled forwards in time!

freaky, huh?
Hopp

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HOPP....LOL....MUCH, much more than I care to know....about anything. Pass the Captain Morgan. :> )))) We love ya, buddy!

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Directly from her mouth to your ears, First time she told the truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTnN13AaMbQ

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REEL..Pathological Lying should not be a career and way of life. :> )))

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Hopp...LOL....WOW! You do need to do some real research: Trump is a blow hard egomaniac...Clinton is a pathological, power driven liar,..Obama is a revenge drive Communist...Bush is an ignorant Socialist. Correa looks pretty damn good now, doesn't he? LMAO :> )))

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I'll keep this post as short as possible while trying to cover Hopp's opposition to facts posted.

The easiest way to see the actual employment rate compared to moments in time Vs 95 million unemployed, not counted by today's standard Vs pre-1994 tabulations.

Is goto the numbers of people paying into FICA and compare to past numbers.Then look into people not employed that aren't over 65,under 17 or disabled.Figure that 95 million into the pecent of those eligible to work or working Vs the FICA. numbers and voila.

Obviously, Hopp doesn't dispute the debt number doubling.There are stats on workers paying into FICA 2000 & 2008.As there is on poverty numbers.If one correlates the debt burden Vs GDP into it, your economic"progress" view is at best stagnation in real terms

Saving malinvestments,mismanaged financial institutiopns is counter productive and is why in real terms the US economy is "dead in the water".The stock market is propped up by lack of return in fixed income markets,another words an artificial bubble.Also a lot of stock buy backs to give the illusion of return per share outstanding.Do a little research on your own and you'll find acurate data to support DDR's contentions. :)
good day sir.

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"The only real difference between me and the rest of the candidates, are that my women are hot"

It was actually, "...the only difference is I'm more honest and my women are more beautiful," and one source said he said it in 1999 and one in 2000.

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MB,
Today I read that Bill Clinton collected $5.6 million from GEMS Education, a Dubai-based company that teaches Sharia law through a network of more than 100 schools in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. It said the company's finances strictly adhere to "Sharia Finance," which includes giving "Zakat," a religious tax of which 1/8 of the proceeds are dedicated to funding Islamic jihad. The company also contributed millions to the Clinton Foundation, and Bill Clinton served as honorary chairman for GEMS from 2011 to 2014 according to the C!intons' federal tax returns.

Interesting. I wonder whether this will be in the mainstream media and what they'll say.

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Just how far off the beaten path was the media that provided that story?

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DDR,
Yes, and the latest US Census Bureau report said 48% of Americanized are "struggling financially."

Re:. Unemployment rate,

In Sept. 2015, Fortune said, "Donald Trump is right, America"'s real unemployment rate is 40%"

Jim Clifton, CEO of the Gallop Poll, said "...the Labor Department counts someone as employeed even if they are working part time but want a full-time job. It also considers people who have no job and haven't looked for one in the past four weeks as "not in the labor force," rather than unemployed.
He says,"There’s no other way to say this. The official unemployment rate, which cruelly overlooks the suffering of the long-term and often permanently unemployed as well as the depressingly underemployed, amounts to a Big Lie."

In 2013, Keith Hall, former head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (he used to run the numbers on employment), said "...there are a lot of people not showing up in the official unemployment rate."

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I have never heard of gallop.com

The famous Gallup Poll however has underemployment at below 15% and unemployment at just above 5% as of July 25, 2016

That´s from a high of above 20% and above 10% January 2010

http://www.gallup.com/poll/127538/workforce-weekly.aspx

I thnk those numbers speak more accurately to the arguments being put forth, and are favorable to the Obama Administraton and the Democrat party.

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Organic...

Let me confirm what you wrote:

There is a school in Muslim countries that teaches ... Islamic moral and religious law derived from religious prophecy, as opposed to teaching only human legislation,

So for example they can teach that G-d created the earth and all the animals rather than evolution in the classroom, that as well as or possibly instead of science, they can teach creationism?

THey have prayer in class and even have their holy books in the actual classroom?

They might even celebrate the the religious holdiays of the majority religion of the country...right there in the schools?

And they teach sexual behavior, morals and ethics of their religion in the school?

..in fact 100 Schools in the region...

And that a private corporation is taxed to pay for the school?

Nope ... could never happen.

That the initiative to combine talents with the Varkey Foundation (a for profit corproation) and the investment made earned Bill Clinton an income over the past 5 years, as shown on the income tax returns of the Clintons (Married Filing Jointly) pretty much tells us: WOW good business people...and they know the global market...and they are not such parrochial bumpkins that they can´t see the forest for the trees and refuse to believe that every Muslim is a terrorist (or one n training).

So, I really don´t see the point of bringing up ... that the Presidential Nominee´s spouse makes money every year.

I´m more concerned with what´s Trump may or may not be earning... and how it proves or disproves his words., his claims, and reflects on his ability to lead this country.

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OM,

I appreciated your write up on Zika.The govt here in Miami is running everything into panic mode,practically giving everyone exposure to toxic sprays.It's like the coming of the plagues.Only a bunch of inept politicians can save the people. ;-) by frightening them to death. Kind of like when they try to give the elderly heart attacks by telling them social security will be cut off.OMG what a joke.

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Susan, Are PM's going through as far as you know? I sent a few several days ago and don't think the did.

Hopp, Check your PM's and email.

Moody

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Let's bring up Mr.Khan.Who'm by the way works for the Clinton"foundation" (more of a slush fund :-) actually.

Who's occupation is bringing in Islamlic refugees for profit.(ask Merkel how that's working out for Germany) And whom Hillary voted for sending his son to Iraq to be eventually killed in battle.

Attacks Trump because slowing down or stopping Islamic refugees
would kill his(Khan's) business.Hmm,

Something sounds really funny there.
The nerve of those pieces of garbage Khan and Clinton trying
to hide their vested interest in profits
from Islamic immigration on Khan's dead son, whom Hillary voted as senator to send to Iraq to be killed in the first place.

If that doesn't make you go Hmmm
nothing will. ;-) Those "people" make Trump look like a piker.

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Interesting stuff Hopp. Oh how I would love to be able to travel forward in time. I would get rich just on the outcome of sporting event scores!

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@ PA.. lol.. we love you to buddy..

I really do a lot more research than reflected by a few posts.. And I do agree Trump is a pathological liar too..

I know they are all corrupt to some extent - I just have a real problem with The Donald over the others.. and a lot of it is the overtly racist nature of the man..

And Bernie - I just love that old man.. and when he labled himself a Democratic Socialist - I knew it was going to be something I was going to hear a lot about.. and I have, I was actually asked how I could fight for my country and then support a communist..lol

Communism is not socialism.. and you probably know the difference - but I was dismayed by the number of people who do not.. The man isn't in the running now - but still.. his ideas were/are not what one classically equates to soviet "socialism" ...it only means that he cares about society (the root of the word) ..and I do too..

Correa ..Ecuador's president is also a Democratic Socailist, actually.. But whatever the label, it is a person's intent and heart that matters the most, or so I believe.. I'm not sure Trump has much of one - and what is there - it i black and it's hollow and it's cold. But I feel you on much of what you say.. I may not agree that Obama is some revenge driven communist.. in fact I like the man.. but I won't be mad at someone who doesn't - there is enough hate going around and I ret not to contribute to it, even though I am guilty of it too.

And DDR.. I can tell that you have a clear hatered for the Muslim faith ad the people that follow it. You can say you don't.. that you are just looking at facts.. but, you do. That's sad - because that won't help any problems we have.. only fuel the out of control fire. Now, I don't dispute that the poverty level in the US is high.. and also I am not an idiot - I know where the census reports on unemployment get their numbers.. ad when someone is not filing for unemployment the are not in that counting.. But the fact is that these jobs WERE created and that flys in the face of that statement that they were not.. but you sort of just kipped over that mistake, did you not?

Also, I have to tell you that the unemployment rate, even the uncounted, is not anywhere close to what you are trying so desperately to claim it is. What is even more important is this - The guidelines that determine this rate are the exact same ones that were in place before Obama took office - and it is a fact that this rate has dropped greatly since Bush was in office. So by your logic - the unemployment rate was 50% or more when he was POTUS? I ask you - where the hell was the outrage, then, 9 years ago? Were you out yelling that over half of the people in the country were out of work then?

I couldn't say.. but I seriously doubt that you were.

And I have been to Dubai.. Qatar is an incredible city on the tip of the peninsula... But I do not agree with their ideology, nor the conditions in which the people, (largely from India) are housed and paid who are brought over to build this (and other) modern cities.. It is a human rights violation to be sure.. But I think your research probably consists on searches for reports written by people who think the way you do and not thinks you have come by while looking at unbiased reporting. That makes this kind of "research" more of a subjective search than any kind of objective research. One can find stories to prop up on's opinions very easily. It is when we read a true thing that conflicts with our own passionate opinions and biases (and accept them) that we can call ourselves informed.. if we don't - we are nothing more than "soap boxers"

@ PAcountry --
lol.. yeah man.. I know (about the time travel stuff) ...more info than most people care to hear buddy.. believe me.. it could have been a lot worse ;) ...I have a passion for astro, theoretical and especially quantum physics.. I get my geek on sometimes!

Hopp

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I came acrossthis article this morning and thought of this thread, so here it is. Btw, I dont necessarily see the Donald as the Shining White Knight riding in to save the righteous, but I do see him as the lesser of two evils. And as for the gist of the article, not far from the mark: Everything is rigged! http://www.thedailysheeple.com/everything-is-rigged-medicine-science-elections-the-media-money-education-search-engines-social-media-you-are-living-in-a-fabricated-fairy-tale_082016

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Hopp,
Just the facts Ma-aM.
Goto the the population paying into FICA.The employed.Look at 2007,then today and there's only a slight margin of improvement at best and that's with lower compensation per hour worked.

If you want to be suicidal and just open the borders as Germany has.Then knock yourself out kid :-)

Also afoot is it's easy to get into the US and difficult to get out as far as emigration and immigration.I have a felling they're building the fence to keep americans in,rather than Mexicans out.

That's why I'm here looking for the best possible places to go to.
Good day sir ;-)

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@DDR..........your thinking is sound from this Hawaiians coral perch...........talk about an ill fated Titanic...........hey, while were on the subject, who owned the Titanic anyway?? Oh..........yeah, thats right, it was J.P. Morgan..........who also owned the sister ship which looked exactly like it.........well, almost exactly.........a few details.............

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Hoopp you've lost any shred of "credibility" falling for an onion article.Go back to your mom's basement and hide.You fell for that.No credibility at all.Calling you a fool would be an insult to the fools in this world.And yes there are less US workers now than in 2000 and only a very marginal increase from 2007.Ugh,Can't argue with crazy folk.Geez.

Windstream that dried up old gas bag.
Hopefully you'll float your sorry ass far away.

Islam is just stoneage delusions of a bunch of backwards desert folks.Nothing to see there.

I can't debate with uninformed lunatics.It's a waste of time trying to enlighten the blind.If they don't want to see.

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HOPP...PA...:> ))) I really enjoy your chit chat and the give-and-take you stimulate, but I think I must suffer from some sort of ADD....(not to poke fun at ADD suffers)...but every time I read about 8 or 9 lines of your novelettes, I black out. Could you do me a favor? Write a brief summary at the end of each so I can savor the essence. :> )))

PS: You need to read Dinesh d'Souza's OBAMA'S AMERICA. He goes into how Barry's Grandfather was imprisoned as a terrorist by the Britts and how they tortured him repeatedly. Gives you a little insight into why he sent the bust of Churchill back to the Britts and his desire for revenge. You might want to take a look at his friends, mentor and associates to get a better insight into the man.

http://www.theobamafile.com/_associates/ObamaAssociates.htm

http://blackquillandink.com/?p=12081

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Hopp fell for the Onion story I initially missed that.What little credibility you had is gone poof.Go back to mom's basement.I'd say you're a fool,but that'd be an insult to fools.

Windshadow another dried up old bag of hot air that'll hopefully float off into oblivion.

One can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink it.Those are blind people.

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My opinion of Islam is it's a stoneage illusion of delusional desert wankers.
No credibility at all,zero.As Hopp and Wind are.

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As I mentioned... Cognitive Dissonance... is a very real thing... And why it is often best to provide the facts and figures and never get into an argument. It literally does not get through (as PAC mentioned: he blacks out... that´s a great way of putting it).

Why facts don’t matter to Trump’s supporters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-facts-dont-matter-to-trumps-supporters/2016/08/04/924ece4a-5a78-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html

That being said, please take a moment and read the next article And thank you for your support:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/opinion/campaign-stops/i-ran-the-cia-now-im-endorsing-hillary-clinton.html

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That coming from another over the hill gas bag (OH).

Ah yes, the CIA.
Those morons couldn't spy their way out of a paper bag.I knew Pakistan and NKorea had nukes before those CIA a-holes did.

One has to look at it this way.THE TRUTH.Obama Doubled the debt in 8 yrs and the econmomy is about where it was in 2007.Good luck.

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So as I mentioned, the Washington Post article, which is really worth a read...but here are some highlights and you can all read the post above and thereby have a perfect object lesson:

Trump’s campaign pushes buttons that social scientists understand.

When the GOP nominee paints a dark picture of a violent, frightening America, he triggers the “fight or flight” response that’s hardwired in our brains. For the body politic, it can produce a kind of panic attack.

This triggers a need to run and protect ones self ...or attack and fight back

Studies show that attempts to refute false information often backfire and lead people to hold on to their misperceptions even more strongly., attack

This “confirmation bias” was outlined in a 1979 article by psychologist Charles Lord, cited by Graves

“Instead of changing their minds, most will dig in their heels and cling even more firmly to their originally held views,” Graves explained in summarizing the study

Trying to correct misperceptions can actually reinforce them, according to a 2006 paper by Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler, also cited by Graves. They documented what they called a “backfire effect”

Next Graves examined how attempts to debunk myths can reinforce them, simply by repeating the untruth.

It seems that people remember the assertion and forget whether it’s a lie. The authors wrote: “The more often older adults were told that a given claim was false, the more likely they were to accept it as true after several days have passed.” IN PR that´s the adage that there is no such thing as bad PR, sort of.


The study showed two interesting things: People are more likely to accept information if it’s presented unemotionally, in graphs; and they’re even more accepting if the factual presentation is accompanied by “affirmation” that asks respondents to recall an experience that made them feel good about themselves.

Bottom line: Vilifying Trump voters — won’t convince them they’re wrong. Probably it will have the opposite effect.

The final point that emerged from Graves’s survey is that people will resist abandoning a false belief unless they have a compelling alternative explanation.

Unless great care is taken, any effort to debunk misinformation can inadvertently reinforce the very myths one seeks to correct

And, you better have something better they want to beleie in to replace the mistaken belief, or they won´t set the misperception aside, they will cling to it like a drowning man to a lide preserver.

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Social scientists.
Oh geez, now I know where you're coming from :-) that and fifty cents will get you squat.As a matter of fact that type of "degree" is one of the fiascos of student loans.

A degree that ain't worth the paper it's written on.And they said Trump university was a scam.If these kids could sue their universities for not being able to get a job that payed enough to pay back a bogus govt loan for a squat "degree" that might be what I'd call justice.

I'm actually a nice guy.But you all make so easy to flame you.Quoting onion articles,not looking a real data.

What don't you get about doubling the debt in eight years,having fewer jobs than 2000 and barely more than in 2007.Shooting ten trillion dollars down the crapper with little to nothing to show for it other than fat poor people addicted to govt largess,bailing out incompetent wealthy elites?

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Susan.. I will read that article..

I cooked a late meal and should be asleep,, but checked my email and saw some incredible posts.. so I had to check in and read.. and I have to say - I got a good laugh.

I would really like to stoop to the name calling that DDR went to the trouble of.. as the baser side of me is pretty aggressive and I do like a good fight.

However. I agree with usan that you can't really change a person mind vilifying something they believe - only embolden them. But after reading DDRs bulls*it I see the fool has no mind to change anyway..

Are you serious ..or are you simply here for comic relief? ..and if a comedian is what you are aspiring to be.. do

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I am too sleepy to waste time on you, DDR.. I think I will crawl back into my mom's basement for some shut - eye/

But I'll say this - i you are aspirig to be some sort of comedian?

Just don't quit your day job. "kid"..

I have a lot to say to you - as I suck at being passive aggresive.. ( I prefer to be aggressively aggressive)

I do not think I will make myself look like the imbecile you have hown yourself to be, nor the troll.. but maybe I will. That remains to be seen... depend on how pissed nd sickened I am by you tomorrow, in the light of day... as I tear you new one, "kid".

I will try to be brief and even summarize it ..since PA actually asked nicely that I do so..

Oh,.. it is so late.. I should get my cookies and warm milk and crawl back down to mommy' basement for some nighty night.. Maybe she will hea me and come tuck me in!!

Oh wait - don't think that'll happen DDR... she's DEAD..

Tomorrow, asshole,
Hopp

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Hopp pleeze check your email. Highly confidential nonsense included. MoodyD

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@ the pair of f/cktards that know who they are, (and are probably the same person anyway)...

I am going to retract my previous threat to "rip you a new one". It would be an exercise in futility anyway. I am better than that... and I'm no troll. So, I think I'll take the high road and leave you and your split personality to wallow in the mud alone.

The personal attacks don't bother me enough to go there anyway. My skin is as thick as a rhino's. So as I remind myself of that fact, I can take pleasure in knowing your ilk is incapable getting under it - but in a brief moment of weakness I almost let it happen.

My bad and shame on me!

I will however make a comment on your drivel, ask a question and attempt to show small amount of class while doing so.

First off, DDR aka Dumluck, I am less than dismayed that I have lost the credibility in your eyes that I could not have cared any less that I have anyway.

I went to the article "Everything is Rigged: that you supplied us your link to. Susan also gave us a link to look at..

Her's was a real website: The Washington Post's site.While your link said it all: "the dailysheeple,com" And I even read the entire article "Everything is Rigged" which is one insane piece of gabage,,lol

Absolutely everything listed in it is literally :absolutes" [ the words "every", "all", "never" and "always" are in each and every bullet point - there not one place that that the writer says something as important as "we think" "possibly" or "probably".

This ...this thing.. whatever you may wish to call it, (as long it isn't called journalism) is clearly not written about "sheeple" - it is written for them (for you). ...

Hey, KM45.. you are right old friend.... preaching to the choir here does not move anything forward. Also, trying to convince those with a different viewpoint is usually pointless and unsuccessful as well.. Maybe thee is not much of a middle road as you say.. But at east there are some people on here who are not hellbent for leather, one way or the other, and who are able to talk about things - even if they are not going to agree.. and I will acknowledge them and appreciate their civility.

I believe you once recommended a book for me entitle, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Repair? lol.. perhaps we need to write one... call it, "Zen and the Art of Tolerating the Intolerable" - it is for certain that the research for it need go no farther than this forum, and perhaps no farther than this one thread!

(hold on, there PAC. Boy - I will wrap it up for you - don't pass out yet) - and I don't include you in this collection of the Intolerable.

See, a lot of us have differing opinions, likes and dislikes and differing beliefs. And while my "credibility" is now zero..lol.. because I referenced a bogus article from The Onion, ( and I also acknowledged my foolish mistake ) - it is noteworthy in my opinion to point out that this was pointed out by 1. our moderator (and thanks for that, Susan, because I needed that pointed out.. but also by 2. The dipsh*t who questions my credibility while posting an article that uses the words "every" "always'" "never" and others - in every single bullet point... leaving out anything at all like "it would seem" "possibly" or even "probably". It preaches thing for one's self while doing nothing short of telling it's readers exactly what they should think without allowing them any chance of thinking for themselves in even the smallest of ways.

So to question anyone's credibility at all is pure and unadulterated hypocrisy...

indshadow and I do not agree on everything,.. but we are friends. Moody-D and I have differing opinions as well.. but we are friend and, coincidentally.. neighbors as well. And PACountryBoy,who is firm in his beliefs, has the ability to joke and show respect to others.

This is how it should be. So, to those brainwashed morons who find it a better use of their time to be an embarrassment to the good purpose of this forum... who think that low brow attacks and name calling is better than a civil, if disagreeable, discourse is in anyway productive.. (and who mistakenly think themselves "witty")..

I say this to you - you suffer from nothing and better than jealousy - because you see a group of people who have shown that they can disagree and still act and speak like mature men and women despite our difference..

And you know you can never join us in this because you lake the intestinal fortitude to pull yourselves out of the pool of muck in which you wallow like the pigs you have chosen of your own free will to be.

I feel sorry for you... but not all that much.

Hopper

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Hey Moody - I have nothing bro

when did you send it? I looked back a couple of days even

Hopp

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A few days ago Hopp. It was a reply to one you sent. Classified info ring a bell?

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Hopp, I just sent you another email about 12:45 your time since the other was Hillary jacked jaja. I had sent a could of PM's also so check that out dude. I don't think the PM's went through???

MoodyD

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Hopp,
How do you really feel?
Don't let the trolls steal your good energy.
Believe me when i say, no one on this forum, including me probably, are open minded to view good ideas or info. Most of us are set in their ways and are comfortable with their opinions. lol
Hang in their bro!

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GH..

I also got caught by the Canadian article... it caught many of my friends too so it wasn´t just you...and it was so close to the other faux pas of the week it slid right along in the level of believeability. Your credibility is uquestioned because...you have cred.

When backtracekd it was found to be from a site that specifically labelled the article as satire.

That cannot be said for the articles to which some people refer... and those, very much have a credibility issue.

So do take some time and read the Washington Post article...

ALSO... read the post from the gentleman from the CIA who has been watching Hllary Clinton from the side lines for many years, and read what his opinion is on her fitness to be our next Presidnet of the USA.

And ...yes we should have professional in positions in politics. It is not for amatueurs. I do nopt however feel we should have career politicians who are out of touch (looking at Scott Walker and Rick Scott as examples) so out of touch with the world and their constituency that they are also out of control in their governance.

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HoppedUp........pls try and get it thru yur thick skull tht DDR and I are two differnent guys who just simply both happen to have a problem with your incessant rambling...........In the beginning I was thinkin you were pretty kool and humorous and socialable........But once again first impressions were misleading..........Youve got a vindictive nature and I really dont think your as openminded as you pretend to be.......Youve got a looooong way to go to learn how to live, survive and thrive in latin america hermano...........but for $25 an hour, I will be pleased to guide you along the rocky path.........Susan works way too cheap, but maybe the price is commesurate with the quality of the information...........dont expect gangas from gringos.........More like gringo bingo...........

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If any of you would like to find out about TRUE unemployment all the have to do is look at the dept of labors U6 fiqures which include under employed and drop outs from the labor market. I think the figure stands at about 9.6%.
Of course to accept these figures DDR would have to admit that he is basically a liar. Also there have been 10 mil jobs created since OBO took over in 2008.
Now DDR you can't call me a great friend of Grasshopper but I think he is closer to the truth than you are.
Hopper, you make me laugh when you try to take the high road. Maybe you should go back and read your post to me when I questioned you and the wind hag about some of your stories. As for the windhag, she can't even see the high road from her position in the gutter. Let's be honest DDR or most others really don't care about your so called friendships you've made on line.Jealous, give him a break.
Now, have I pi$$ed you all off. Hope so

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I never explained why I thought release of Obama's academic record was important.First it seems he's hiding something,either.1)his grades were crap 2)He got in as an exchange student.

Do you think as narcissistic as he is he'd hide a +4 GPA?

Or Bill Clinton's health records?

With his taste in women ex. Hillary and other low class trailer trash types.That maybe he got the clap?

Hmmm.

What Obama did was Bush's policy of bailouts were continued.The sky is falling when Bear Sterns bit the dust was just showing the underlying weak foundation of malinvestment and FedRes incompetence.Instead of clearing out the dead weight Obama and Bush kept the status quo, status quo.The problem was too much bad debt from a over extended credit cycle.That move down the road will make 2008 look like a circus.

And what did Obama & Bernanke do?Monetized the debt.In no case I've ever found in history where that didn't lead to either war or overthrow of the government or both.

I didn't post this to argue with some dopes.Put that in your pipe & smoke it GH,OH,,Windbag. :-)

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Just the facts Ma-aM

Lowest home ownership rates since they've kept records +50 yrs

Middleclass has shrunk in the last 8 years.By a lot,lowest percent of the
population in a long time.

Poverty rate up +20% since the height of the recession.

Recovery my rear end.Unless you're an elite that was bailed out.

Washington Post and the Onion isn't much of an improvement as your source of info.
:-)

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Latest quote from Trump,
"Hillary's greatest accomplishment is getting out of trouble."

Now that is funny!

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Not much of an improvement? No improvement at all.......in fact a downgrade........Thnx basically to the internet, there are now way better sources of information than the MSM/corporate elitist controlled propaganda machine.......but then again, you have to scrutinize everything........even much of the so called alternative media is controlled by the same financial interests......its called controlled opposition........and Soros has his hands in most every pie..........just the latest example, he funds "Black Lives Matter"...........I dont think the guy ever sleeps.......just takes another dose of HGH..........jeje

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Novato, What difference does it make how "off the beaten path" the news source is? The article provides links to the Clinton's tax returns which show the money received.

It's common for those believe mainstream media to attack the credibility of anyone NOT in the MSM, and for those who believe the MSM (and the few people who own them) is part of the corrupt elite whose idea of reporting the news is pushing their political agenda, will naturally question what comes from the MSM. But, to be truly informed you have to listen to what both sides have to say, and then do your own research to verify what is and isn't true.

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This is the problem with listening to the mainstream media. Trump not only didn't yell at a baby, he didn't yell at the mother either. He was joking with the mother; she knew and everyone there knew it. It was the MSM pushing their political agenda who turned it into another hit piece on Trump.

The real conversation:

TRUMP to mother:. Don't worry about the baby crying. I love babies. It's okay.

A few minutes later, after the baby was still screaming and the mother was trying to calm it down...

TRUMP to mother with a smile:. I changed my mind, get that baby out of here. It's okay, don't worry.

Then he jokingly said to the audience, "She thought I meant it when I said I don't mind [that the baby was crying]"

It was no big deal and he was being playful with it, and the lying media turns it into "Trump kicks a baby out of his rally!"

I'm not quite sure how anyone can believe these people any more.

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Dumluk,. Even PBS, which is billed as "independent media," receive funding from the Rockefeller Foundation, and other similar groups who have their finger in all the politically-motivated groups. The first thing I do when someone makes a public statement is the check who they are, and who is giving them money.

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DDR, And, the latest Consensus Bureau report says 48% of Americans are struggling financially. The national debt is at $19 trillion give or take, and if creditors demanded their money back tomorrow, we'd be sunk. But, you won't here things like this in the MSM, or maybe just a passing mention of it. They'd rather waste their time trying to influence an election by making up stories.

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Remoore,
You have shown your low lack of class once again.
You would argue with a rock.
NO one really cares what you think, you are a first rate jerk wad!
Maybe you would be better off keeping the cap on the bottle. Less drunk chit- chat Mr. Grease Monkey!

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Windhag, Why, thank you. Coming from you it is all a compliment.

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lol.. you two.. ugh

I am fine Windy.. had no internet all day = and a bit slow from that party last night.

@ remoore - no, you are right 100%. I don't even need to go back and read it - I busted on you in a less than tasteful way. It was a long way downhill from any high road. - and I apologized for it as well. We have had our spats and may have more, who knows? but still, as I had said I was k
just half joking = and definitely wasn't serious about some of it. That said, if we do spat - or if we get a chuckle every now and again. maybe we can agree to just not get nasty like DDR - it' ugly and I'd rather not be see that way.

Oh now I hope to be seen as a little ugly, yeah sure.. I am, after all. Just not gutter/ghetto, and sometimes it takes seeing something really smelly to make u check the sole of our own shoes to be sure we didn't get some of them on us.

DDR, if you don't like my rambling - don't f3cking read it, assmunch.

You said some drooling caca about my being able to "survive" here in latin.. something... I turned the page.

Because I was bored.. you bore me

Hoppeduplastnight
...lol

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Moody D.. I think I got the messages - just got internet back so I will have to check them in a bit..

Susan - thanks for the good words. Oh and that party was fantastic! ...just dont eat the green muffins along with the "420" craft beer!

Shadow.. also, don't eat the green muffins with the 420 craft beer.. or at least keep it to one 420 beer..lol

I was wondering why the guy runing the Tiki bar said to wait 45 - 50 minutes before having another.. though 420 was just a cute name they gave it.... no, it was truth in advertising actually

hopp

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oh.. DDR.. that post was meant for Dumass, not you,

Dumass.. if I need you to lead me along a rocky path I'll tell ya. Pick one out for us that runs along a really high cliffside. I'll pay you the 25 when I get back.

(..I mean when we get
"we" get back)

Hopper

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Kmor:

I´ve been meaning to send back a message to your post. You mentioned preaching to the choir... well ... it´s more like... in my case... I am Singing to the choir and letting them know, especially given some of the more --- enthusiastic --- responses for Trump.... that there are definitely voices of reason as well as voices of absurdity here in the wilds of Ecuador.

And with that being said:

Many Trump supporters don’t care about the controversies dominating media coverage...

So trying to argue points, as we read , is not just futile, it is counter productive. Now here is an article that defines why it may not even matter.

If there is one thing that is occurring in this election cycle, it is the rise of ...Social Science, Political Science, and Social Psychology... Anthropology, Comparative religion and mythology... and Communications and PR majors...who really got it.

Because we are learning a whole new way to communicate with what you can see is a very volatile, and easily controlled (but not too bright) demographic of Americans.

They are armed, and dangerous, and no...they do not listen to facts, or science, or anything they do not wish to hear. (literally, do not even register in their minds hearing)

They are in denial, they are content to stay there, and they will fight you to the death if you try to convince them otherwise.

And yes, we have them here in Ecuador too...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/08/04/many-trump-supporters-dont-care-about-the-controversies-dominating-media-coverage/

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Hopper...

It´s the Limited Edition Club Cacao with the green muffins...

...guess I´ll hear back from you mañana...

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Easy for the short attention spanned.

Approx.

330million US pop
250mil not too old or young or disabled to work. Minus FICA enrolled = 100,000,000. or 40%.

The debt from the bailouts is going to kill the US economy.Actually, it already has and the FedRes's luck will run out very soon.

Less workers than in 2000,marginally more than 2007, with 20 mil more population and doubled national debt.No real returns propping up malinvestments and mismanagement.

Another words.Doing the same thing and expecting different results.All the economic cycles are long in the tooth.Expect total chaos.

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Actually... I don´t use approximates or need to resort to "back of envelope" calculations..

I just go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics... and cut and paste

SEASONALLY ADJUSTED

Unemployment Rate:
4.9% in Jul 2016

Change in Unemployment Level:
-13,000 in Jul 2016

Change in Employment Level:
+420,000 in Jul 2016

Change in Civilian Labor Force Level:
+407,000 in Jul 2016

Civilian Labor Force Participation Rate:
62.8% in Jul 2016

Employment-Population Ratio:
59.7% in Jul 2016

ANNUAL AVERAGES
Unemployment Rate:
5.3% for 2015

Unemployment Level:
8,296,000 for 2015

And I give citations...where I find my information: http://www.bls.gov/cps/

So anyone can go back and check the source for accuracy and the numbers for themselves.

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@O.H. "Because we are learning a whole new way to communicate with what you can see is a very volatile, and easily controlled (but not too bright) demographic of Americans." O.H. You must be talkin bout diehard Hilliary disciples right? The sad folks who refuse to see what is right in front of their dumbed down faces? I admit, most of the Trump supporters are challenged as well.......I would go so far as to paint the general public with a broad brush.......Well, they will get what they deserve........justice will be served one way or another............meantime, pls pass the popcorn.........

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BLS?
That and fifty cents will get you a cup of NOTHING.Pure hooey.

The government is known to lie a lot.Numbers don't lie.When they exclude this and that their stats are worthless.

I don't even point out that being on the FICA role doesn't mean a full time job.If one took hours worked +36hrs as full time, then divide into those paying into FICA the percent employed full time drops by a huge amount.

Then if one figures median income Vs median spent.The median person/household has $100 a year left over.This economy is on life support in a coma.One foot in the grave :-)

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... Wow! those two are right on cue!

...Well, I for one am impressed, by the absolute perfection of those two off-the-cuff and spontaneous responses

You guys ... you really are ...exemplary... what can I say but ***res ipsa loquitor***

And of course thanks, for making proving the point...just that easy :)

Susan

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Susan,
hey you... omg what a party.

they didn't have any Special Edition Club.. but free Pilsner and Club at the Tiki.. or a couple of bucks for a craft on draft..

Two of their 420 beers (yeah.. the name wasn't for fun - it was wicked) and a green muffin..

Well, Suza has a great selfie of her with a rose in her teeth and me zonked out on the couch behind her,,lol

Made a lot of friends.. enjoyed the 3 bonfires... ate well.. lost my wallet,,
- all and all a great party!

Hopper

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OH
They were right there, on cue and "Johnny on the spot", weren't they?

They're like an old pair of dirty socks. You look down, they're both there and they both smell the same ...so you pick them up and hold them at arms length while you walk em to the hamper.

Doesn't matter - sooner or later you'll have to smell that pair again...lol

Hopper

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...and pass the popcorn my ass..

pass the No-Doze.

You two (who might as well be one.. my thick skull isn't affecting cognitive function at all - it i just that when I sweep the floor and have two dust balls come together.. I simply consider it to then be a just one bigger dustball) are actually god for on thing.

I have problems with insomnia ...but reading how a median income vs a median payout = a median person have a C note left over per year.

you f@cking moron.. I mean I can figure your math out easily enough - but if your going thru the trouble of printing the bull.. make it a poper equation, for the rest of who are trying to read your "puke ona page"..

'cause I don't recall "vs" as being part of any mathematical equation I was ever taught.. -- A vs B = C ..?

nah.. A vs B = a damned F if you were to write it anywhere other than here

Hopp

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and if you would like to dog my typos?

feel free... at least THEY will have served a purpose

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Get em Hopp! Um had a green muffin for breakfast yet? jaja

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and he drones on and on...................and on.........brings to mind the old Beatles song...." I'd luvvvv to turnnnn youuuu off........".......And btw, while were on the subject, any elementary economist knows well that the guv lies and fudges numbers.......Listen to anyof the guys who have a serious track record, Jimmy Rogers in Singapore for example.....And they will tell you, govt job numbers are grossly underestimated.......Whatever number they throw out take it and double it and you will be close........And all the new jobs?? What kind of jobs? Walmart? BurgerKing? McDonalds..? etc, etc......Im sure by now even asshopper gets the point........

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Does this look like a woman fit to be President? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-08/something-wrong-hillary-bizarre-behavior-seizure-allegations-raise-doubts-about-her-

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Hopp and OH,
Why you engage the 2 geniuses is beyond me. Hopp I realize you haven't been on this forum long but OH and some others have. We have been hearing all this doom and gloom stuff for over 7 years on this forum. First it was maxgold who swore that any minute now the world economic order was going to collapse and the only way to save ourselves was to hoard precious metals. Of course our great friend Nickspn chimed in with his agreement and as extra proof of the world ending was chem trails and gmo's. Of course nothing has changed or happened.
Anyone can manipulate numbers as these 2 geniuses have pointed out, but only gov't numbers are not good the people they quote would never do such a thing.
To end my short little rant, have you noticed that most of these chicken little's live in the US not Ecuador. They tend to be just wanna be's who will actually never move. Doesn't make much sense that if the sky is falling on their heads they don't at least try to get out of the way.

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DD....."Median/ Mean" numbers are meaningless. The only time people use them is when they can"t make the "average" numbers work for them.

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I think David Stockman has the proper credentials to know whats goin on with the real economy, and he thinks its in the ditch, and he says 2008 was just spring training for whats comin soon. This man is as conservative and centrist as they come.....look at his debt graphs......They are startling: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-28/david-stockman-warns-2008-was-just-spring-training-what-comes-next

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dumluk,
I watched that video. I have been of the same opinion that she is suffering from some kind of diminished capacity. That is sad if true, even if I don't like her lying, deceit, stealing, female chauvinistic campaign, rigging elections and press support, being bought of by banks, traitorous acts, and alternate behavior support, I don't wish seizures on her.

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Pacountryboy,
I always liked the saying if a person has one foot in boiling water and the other in ice water he will be comfortable because the average temperature is very nice.

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Remoore,
So what is your point oh wise one? More rambling with nothing good to say!

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My apologize to dumluk, I know you live in Panama, but that's just kind of USA lite
Also since you like Stockman, do you plan to quote any other conservative economist that disagree or are you just cherry picking? Guess that's a stupid question since the answer is of course you're cherry picking

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In order for the fascist "One World Order" oligarchs to take over there must be chaos among the masses and a controlled propaganda based media. They have the media already and Obama recently signed several laws limiting our right to gather publicly in protest and the other allowing use of the military against the citizens of the United States of America. The TPP is another step in that direction. And people wonder why I'm moving to Ecuador.

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FYI...I'm not a wannabe. I've only been back in the USA for seven years and it has been five years too long. (Had to bury both of my parents first).

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Dumluk and windshadow...recently uncovered medical reports show she has complex partial seizures and was confirmed to have subcortical vascular dimentia. She was retested for the dimentia in February 2014 and the MMSE scores were SIGNIFICANTLY lower in a matter of 7 short months. This means the cognitive functioning of her brain is going fast. Given these facts, she should not be running for any office.

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WS, I just watched that video again after seeing it before with Hillary's head shaking back and forth. Before when I watched it I thought someone had made a "Gif" making her head go back and forth. After watching a bit ago everyone around her are are moving normally so she very possibly may have some sort of problem. Her stand by man that told her "keep talking keep talking" during the rally shown in another picture with a Valium pen also?

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Hopper,
When I go back to the states I will try and by a couple of cases of those pens! We could go to Montanita and pass them out at one of OH's parties. Might be fun! It would be a "big pupil night!"

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10abuse

MoodyBlue,
So, maybe we should be paying more attention to her flunky choice as V_P since she is on her way out. This and what Trump said today in NC... lol You know, about the second amendment guys would be the only ones able to stop her from appointing justices. LOL
People forget one thing, Congress might not want to hear about her appointments. lol

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01abuse

MoodyBlue,
So, maybe we should be paying more attention to her flunky choice as V_P since she is on her way out. This and what Trump said today in NC... lol You know, about the second amendment guys would be the only ones able to stop her from appointing justices. LOL
People forget one thing, Congress might not want to hear about her appointments. lol

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01abuse