Windshadow,

Perhaps if you think about it as living at a hotel or a resort where you also " pay to play". You don't own the hotel. If you are at a time share resort, you've paid for the privilege of staying there a certain amount of time ( visa ? ) but you don't own the property, you are still - to the staff - a guest.
I spent time in some countries where I definitely wasn't considered a guest. Vietnam comes immediately to mind.
But even in those places, I did try to " mind my manners " and treated people like with respect and deference rather than with an "ugly American attitude".

I have, in my younger years, been unceremoniously booted out of a couple or three countries - but that's a story best either left untold or related over a couple of single malt Irish whiskeys ( RedBreast preferred ).

Ecuador is my home and probably, my last hurrah. I have an Ecuadoran wife and step-family who I love dearly and am very happy with my life here. I still will always be ( affectionately or not ) considered el gringo and that will never change. This is not the country of my birth and in spite of the roots that I've laid down, a shift in government attitude - from either the U.S.A or Ecuador - or some malfeasance on my part ( particularly political ) could lead to my expulsion...ergo I am technically, permanent visa and all, a guest in this country until I obtain citizenship.

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Can you offer any tips on where I can learn about the process of getting a permanent visa such as you have?

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On the Visa threads! Try to keep your questions to the topic posts.
This discussion is on a different topic... Please respect the OP, original poster.

Thank you.

Susan
The Moderator.

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WS

WTF does "Pay to Play" mean? its a cute phrase (I imagine) but what does it mean?

sinego

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@windshadow,

To make the subject more interesting, please provide examples of situations where the "thought of being a guest" made you change your mind, and also tell us what would you have done if you were not a guest in those situations.

Thanks.

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Sin,
It is just a phrase meaning that "it is not free of charge."
Kind of like the lottery. You have to buy a ticket.
Hope this helps.
Maybe I am using the wrong phrase and you are welcome to correct me.

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Akabo,
I like your comment!
Do you feel as though you are a "guest" or are you at home in Ecuador?
Susan,
Thanks for your comment. (:

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@Windshadow,

You are the OP! This is your thread. I am just requesting for examples where you paid and did not get to play. The very idea to start the thread suggests that you have experienced in the past some situations where the feeling of being a guest put you at a disadvantage position.

Please share your experiences!

Thanks.

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akabo,
Sorry friend but I have never felt like a guest. I have always felt at home here. I just hear many people (gingos) saying we are guests here and yady yady yady.... No disrespect intended but I feel when I am anywhere in the world and I am living on my dime, following the rules set forth, and showing respect, regardless of the differences in cultures, then I am not a guest I am a part of the whole.

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@Windshadow,

That's cool! Can't argue with that.

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akabo,
I would like to hear your opinion too. If you move here do you think eventually you would meld into the society so that you stood on your own two feet, sure, a little different than someone born here, but still a part of this society rather than an invited or uninvited guest?
Another question, when are you going to come here, assuming your are not here already? Just curious.

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WS

I am going to guess you refer to people who never settle in. Those who feel apart from people they live among even after years. More than culture shock, they feel uncomfortable in their own skin because they perceive external threat and can never relax.

It is bad manners for a guest to relax too much, to make themselves at home....it crosses a line. You can invite them to relax and feel at home but they may not be able to. The reluctance is inside them.

Its not the Ecuadorians making them feel like guests. The people here are very welcoming or stoically indifferent (its not a monolithic society) In six years in Ecuador I have never encountered examples of the xenophobia common in the states.

By the time I was twenty one I had lived for years in a dozen different countries. I'm sure this makes my initial time feeling I'm a guest shorter than it would be otherwise.

And, my life here is the same as it is during the summer in Maine. I ride the motorcycle, play with electronics, write unpublished fiction and hangout in cafe's sketching people.

I've settled in.

sinego

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Sin,

I agree with you. I've always been comfortable in my own skin and with very few exceptions, felt comfortable and " at home " in whatever part of the world I was in.

I was taking Wind's query in a different direction. I was viewing it from a literal governmental view. Unless you are a citizen of a country, you are considered by the government of said country to be a "guest" - subject to all the rules and regulations of the country and able to enjoy the privileges afforded to its citizens. But...should you transgress, aside from being tossed in the carcel, you can be told to leave the country.

Just like a host can ask an unwanted guest to leave his house, a country can require a non-citizen to leave the country for any reason it deems proper. Hence, in that sense, no matter how long you live in a country, if you're not a citizen - by birth or naturalized - you are considered a guest in that country by the government.

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Sin,
Excellent post.

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Sin,
I think you and I have many similarities as far as life styles except for the sketching people part. I use a camera. I have known you for many years and you always seem very comfortable in your own skin. I can't ever imagine you saying your feel like a "guest" anywhere on this ball of dirt. (: Is it about time for another fried chicken night?

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Try telling a Correa supporter that you would rather have Lasso than Moreno and you sometimes get the saying, you don't understand you are not from here. Or, you have to be Ecuadorian to understand

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Remoore,
I can see you getting a good laugh at comments from the underinformed! There will always be idiots around that think they know but don't.
Like someone used to say, "pity da fool!"

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REMOOR...LOL...They're right. NO one thinks like you do. : >))))))))

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kmoriarty45

Yes, looking from that perspective, guest is an accurate term. Ecuador is so liberal with the rights given resident aliens that I forget.

This brings up the question of citizenship for those of us who have had residence for X years. I don't really think much about citizenship. I like living here but the idea of dual citizenship (the only way I'd go) seems strange somehow. Would I feel Ecuadorian? after the paperwork was done?

Anybody posting or lurking here with the passport of a native land plus one from Ecuador? Do you feel Ecuadorian because because you legally are? or is there a mental barrier to that.

I feel a gringo thru and thru - hard to imagine being something else as well.

Identity is at our core and these questions are about how we define ourselves to ourselves and others.

WS - I take photos too. The subjects react differently when sketched vs photographed. Both are a litmus of how comfortable they are. I tell them....its just light and shadow.

When I lived in an Islamic country years ago we thought it funny that the natives felt the camera could steal their soul. The reaction from first world sophisticates to having their picture captured can be similar. Very irrational really.

and, you mention fried chicken. That's what we need down here is Vilca. Chicken shacks are all over Cuenca but nothing here in the valley of longevity. Extra crispy please.

sinpollofritas

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You don't have papipollo in your part of Ecuador? That's incredible. Really! It's everywhere here even on the bus!

In fact its what I had for supper!

$2 ...piece of deep fried chicken and lots of fries. 2nd piece $1 more. Plus ketchup and mayo and aji... And if you are lucky, mayo with basil.

So do you have salchipapa?
What about bandera de choclo?
You have to have avena polaca!!
Helado casera???

Say what country do you guys live in again?

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I stopped considering myself to be a guest in Ecuador after most of the following came to pass....

I became a property-owner (condo apartment).

I pay property taxes in Quito.

I obtained a permanent residency visa and the national ID card.

I lived in Ecuador continuously for over three years without leaving the country.

I no longer had any address in any country outside of Ecuador.

cccmedia

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I can say that I no longer FEEL like a guest, but if you asked 10 of my indigenous neighbors what the thought, I'm sure that a large majority would say that I am a guest in THEIR country. Regardless i'm happy to be here and guest or not it matters little to me.

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Ocean,

You torture me! No we got none of that here in Vilcabamba.

There are places in Loja but that's an hour away.

nosotros pobrecitos

my mouth is watering now....thinking about fried chicken.

It would sell here! I'd pay a premium. Why is nobody doing it? Does the chicken cost too much? Can't imagine that. Can't be that tough to make!

a weekly bucket at KFC prices, fine.

Que Pasa?

sinpollofrita

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By the way,
Being called a guest is one of the better things I've been called. Especially on this forum

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Hey guys,
First off - THANK YOU for the fried chicken suggestion. We were just debating what to cook for dinner, and that fits the bill, spot on.

...I've not spent as much time EC as we of you. But I can seriously say that being back in NC .... I feel like one of those guests who wishes he had left last week. It's really sucking up here, man.

.. tranquilo is not the word of the day.. ugh

Hopp

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Ghopper,
Don't forget the mashes potatoes, green bean casserole, and lime jello/cream cheese pineapple dessert.
Welcome back!

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@Sin......Have you ever considered that maybe thats WHY it is the Valley of Longevity? Cuz there ARE no ChickenShacks around...........Howz about seafood? Can you get good seafood in Vilca? Un guacho con camarones quizas? Or is it just too far from the coast to be practical?

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Thanks but I'll take the guava tart, pan de yuca, and spinokopeta ... Yeah the last one isn't Ecuadorian but Mrs. Xiangs sopa isn't either just available here in town and really good!

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Yesterday I was in Saraguro. Ate at a really upscale restaurant. "Shama-lo" or something like. Reminded me of the stuff at the CIA in VT - huge plates with little items in the middle. Prices to match the plates.

Not my cup of Tay but great way to spend money. I am simple enough to have preferred the bucket of KFC on a bench in the park. That and a bottle of soda. Didn't happen. I was with others.

Even a poor gringo like me gets so much SS I have to bleed it off now and then before it accumulate & burns a hole in my pocket.

Fish? Yes there is a trout farm restaurant just north of Malacatos. That's about eight klicks from Vilcabamba on the road to Loja. I believe they raise them in a barrel and the guests shoot the fish they want which is then given last rights and ceremonially cooked, arriving at the table several hours later.

Ritual ceremonies for eating are lost on me.

Mostly I eat at home. Ohm lets and pasta with Magi soup mix.

Far too much rain down here in Loja province. All the piles of Volcanic ash on the up slope side are collapsing and covering the road. On the down hill side they are collapsing and taking the road with them.

There was a rumor that the water in the Pacific just off shore is too warm. Somebody dropped the ball in that department. Too cold up here as well.

Would a guest piss and moan like this? I guess a gringo guest would.

sinego

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