Egypt Expat Forum - Relationship with an egyptian man?

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mandy2
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6/11/2008 16:04    
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Hi All
A question for you all.

I recently met an egyptian man whilst on holiday in Luxor and am considering going back out to see if there is a potential for us (if i can get my head round it as this is not the kind of thing i do and yes i have considered all the potential pit falls) i also have been considering working in some voluntary charity capacity in egypt in a year or so time (probably in cairo) having been a manager for a charity in London for 13 years I would love to put my skills to use elsewhere. I have been told however that the two would not really go hand in hand. - a relationship with an egyptian could ruin my reputation and therefore my credibility particulalry as he is classed as being in a lower class - how much truth is there in this?

I have knowledge of the muslim faith but only in western culture

hope you can help realise this is probably a bit of the normal topics

thank you

Sasaeg
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From: Egypt
6/13/2008 14:04    
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Hi dear
first
how old are you and him?
how you met?
how long time you staing together?
what is his job, Education?
what you know about his family?
do you talked about whwere you stay after married, and what his answer?

this for now

and i wish you happy and you get the right man .

mandy2
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6/14/2008 18:44    
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Thanks for your answer

We are roughly the same age late 20's early 30's

at the moment my plan is to return for a week and spend some time getting to know him -In my country you only get married after you have dated someone for a long time maybe 2 years or so. So no marriage yet, though he wants this. I would like stay and work in Egypt and get to know him before I took this step of marriage

I have met his family and will spend more time with them when i go back they seem good people he works hard to look after them

his education is school not college

and thank you, He seems very kind and hard working, but i worry that as i do not know the culture or expectatations of egyptian people I may offend people by dating him, I have been told that doing this would make it hard for me to work in charity organisations which is something i have wanted to do for a long time(before meeting this man)

Is class and type of job important in egypt?

Sasaeg
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From: Egypt
6/15/2008 15:59    
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Dear Mandy
the age its fine
frist about his Education, sorry to tell you that, that is not good here in egypt and he will not get nice futur work,
i think one week here with him not that good to get him well. in that week every thing will going fine and smooth, so you will not his Character well (when he sad, nerves, upset, happy, what he like and what eh not like, .....)
then you have to now about Egyptian culture well (like dressing, what you can do and what not, can't be alone long time in street, have asking to go out, ......)
I know how its going in your contury before marrig but you cant do it here 1 coz the Max time you can saying here 6 month you lucky if get this 6 and cant staying with him in rent flat with out married and not at all be in hote.
about his work you said his run his family too. so i think he can't make (you and family) happy living here is so hard and salaries for his Education it will be nothing.
I was in relation with Swedish Girl for 2 years but not working, then 7 month Latvian, all not working, but 1 German for 2 year coz she forec to live here cos of here son but then she goes back germany after her son finished the school,
about work in charity organisations I working in same filed and yes we have so many here and i can help you in it
here my contact coz i so bad in writing
sasa.eg@inbox.lv
if you need more information send me

Groundhog
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7/2/2008 07:45    
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Sorry perhaps to burst your bubble, but i think you are walking into something you are unequipped to deal with. this man has zero education and will never in his lifetime realise a level where he would even dream of being able to care for you on his own, even in his own country. Your embassy will never grant him a visa, you may even have to take it all the way to appeal (but I say here that you owe it to yourself and your country to respect their decision, they do this everyday and know miles better than any of us.) You would have to live in Egypt (I do, and can NOT recommend it.) There is NO life here, you gonna end up living in Luxor??? Coming here on holiday is not even a hint of what life is like here, and you'd end up having to live like a poor woman in luxor - have you SEEN how poor some of these people live here? $1/day buys NOTHING! I know girls here in Alex that live like this, they have no fridge, let alone washing machine, at 3000 or 4000 a machine, your man would never be able to afford one. Some are so poor they don't even have the ticket home...

95% of this is him looking for someditzy tourist, dumb enough to fall for his line - they will do and say anything to get a 'rich' foriegn woman, and of COURSE his family will be delighted to have you among them... You'll be their ticket out of poverty, perhaps their son'll get to your land and they'll be set for life...

Get out NOW!

I met my egyptian hubby after he had lived almost 15 years in my country, but he still shocks me when he reverts to type and there are days I howl and howl at the misery that is living here - holidays are great - the best on earth - but leave them as that, and make sure the only souvenir you get ripped off on is one that fits into a handbag, not some local and his entire family.

If you like egyptian men, then have a look for one (WITH FULL LEGAL STATUS) in your OWN land (then and only then will you be sure that he not after anything...)

Please don't import one, you are opening a bigger can of worms than you will ever imagine.

I wish you luck and happiness and hope you follow my advice, it'll save you from making a massive and horrific mistake.

theomobius
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7/2/2008 23:15    
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I hate to be a cynic, but I have to second Groundhog's opinion (with qualifications).

I lived in Egypt for five years and am now HAPPILY married to an Egyptian woman. She's wonderful, sweet, and everything as advertised. I'm a very lucky man.

Two big buts though. But 1: An Egyptian woman pays a high price for marrying outside her culture and she would not do this without being committed, whereas an Egyptian man pays no price and in fact stands to live a much better life and be better regarded by his fellow Egyptians if he can become a success overseas. And But 2: I also lived in Egypt for five years, learned Arabic, and knew how to tell the difference between a sincere person and an insincere person. And believe me, that is not always easy to do for someone who is in a new cultural environment, as you were when you spent just one week in Luxor. There are good men in Egypt, at all social status levels, but there are also bad men, and they have an alarming ability to act just like the good ones for short stretches.

Now obviously, there can be no absolute certainty in a case like this. None of us know the guy, and none of us know you, and none of us saw you together. But you're asking the question of total strangers online and that leads me to believe you have your nagging doubts too.

So here's the thing. I've seen many, many, slightly older European women with slightly younger Egyptian men (I'm going to go out on a limb and guess who's who in your "late twenties/early thirties" scenario). Off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen such couples by name. I can't think of a SINGLE one, NOT a single one, where the Egyptian man remained faithful to the European woman. I can't think of a SINGLE one where they stayed married after the Egyptian man got citizenship in the European country (and yes, the decision to move you both to your home country eventually is inevitable, and he knows this already so he doesn't even have to act like he wants it at this point).

One of my dearest friends is a British woman who married an Egyptian man. They lived together for five years in Egypt (whoever said this is impossible hasn't heard of Urfi marriage, and anyway, no one is going to stop you from renting a flat in your own name and having him over every night if you wish). Anyway, eventually, it became clear that my British friend and her Egyptian husband would have better opportunities in England. So they left. Absolutely overwhelmed by freedoms and moral choices for which he had never been prepared, he quickly became a drunken serial philanderer with thousands of pounds in gambling debts and a bunch of half-baked plans for getting rich. After he snapped and beat her, she filed for divorce. She now has sole custody of their beautiful, three-year-old daughter, but has paid a heavy price in lost time and happiness. And he's still a big drunken prick, pissing his life away.

Yeah ... like I said, no guarantees it would turn out this way. I knew Egyptian men -- good men -- that would never, ever behave this way. You meet the good guys at class in college, or at work in your non-profit organization in downtown Cairo, or through friends ... the same way you meet quality people back home.

But the guys you meet in the tourist centers, the ones you just happen to run into and who can't stop talking about your beauty ("excuse me, you dropped something ... my heart") when you're walking down the street in the market or in between monuments or in some papyrus shop -- those guys are HUSTLERS. ALL OF THEM.

SalmaHAH
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7/12/2008 11:59    
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Okay, I have to agree with the other posters on your question. My situation is probably similar and InshaAllah it will NOT end up as Groundhog has eluded to. My Egyptian husband is poor, his family loves me and he wanted to come to German (I am American and work in Germany for the US Government), but now he wants me to quit my job and move to Egypt. Does this scare me...HECK YES, but if I do this, I will ensure that I have money for a ticket home so that IF I must leave I can. Hairbrain schemes to make money, yes he has them and I got sucked into one already...I am Muslim and it is against our religion for the man to get money from his wife...my husband knows this and is contrite every time he asks...but he still asks. I have now started saying NO and if he wants, truely wants, to see me again he must STOP asking for money so that I can save up for when I quit my job and move to Egypt...I am waiting to see what will happen. I pray daily that my husband's love for me is true. It doesn't help that he is Saidi. Your's is Saidi too (my husband is from Luxor)...Saidi men are hard headed, stubborn and get angry very easily...YOU MUST LEARN as much as you can about Islam. You will definitely not make a go of it otherwise.

Groundhog
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7/22/2008 16:32    
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I applaud you for saying no to the requests for money, that is a great idea for you to see how his intentions will pan out. Stick rigidly to this, it'll most likely be the only test you can try to see who this man is.

If you are an american, used to living there, and used to living in Germany, I worry how you will manage to settle well anywhere here. Ok so you are a muslim, that'll help, but it'll be hard - please discount any of your holiday experiences as any form of an indication as to how it is to live here.

There are muslim dating websites, so i hear, and I do know an american girl that has married through one, and she's happy enough... (OK the first marriage ended in disaster, but hey) Why not look for a good man that CAN support you? wherever you would like to live, while you raise his family?

Assuming you DO marry this one, and you do have kids, how will the bills be paid? would you fly back to US for treatment (I would URGE to you do so...) or would you go to one of the national hospitals, that don't charge???? they are SCARY!

I too hope that you don't end up like the girls I know, but if he's poor, with the state of things as they are.. he ain't going to get any richer... and if he gets you and your cash, he'll live better than he'd ever dream in a million years.

I know it's a horrific way to think, but assume the worst and make him prove himself - there are SOO many people here that will do anything and say anything, to anyone they think they can get something out of. There are also SOOO many men egyptian or wherever else that would be happy to marry you, and that WOULD be of a comparitive level of education, culture, world awareness, and indeed salary.

I know I sound like an old misery, but I came from a small town, always thought the best of everyone, gave everyone a fair chance, but here HONESTLY, you can't think like this, you have to be morbidly sceptical, and then when it's been all proved as OK and checks out, then you can be proud in the knowledge of having made an educated, and informed decision, and not one based on smoke screens and illusions.

I wish you every success in whatever you do, a long and happy life.

sinaigirl
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7/24/2008 03:26    
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Oh no not another one who is thinking of giving everything up and moving to Luxor for a man!

I am British and lived and worked there for nearly 4 years. Before you ask NO I did not move there for a man. I moved for me.

I am still in Egypt after 8 years and would not move back to UK. Love the country, but marry an Egyptian man - dont think so. Having a relationship yes.

I have a friend who has been coming to Luxor for many years. She avoided all the pitfalls and kept her head on her shoulder until one day one guy got under the radar - she unfortunately found out the hard way she was not the only one. One day he left his mobile phone lying around and she saw a message from another 'wife'. Fortunately for her she kept her hand on her bank balance.

Take care, think very carefully.

If you come to Egypt, come for yourself not a MAN

elysanne
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8/18/2008 12:46    
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It is an old post but I just had to reply, I'm French but have been living in the UK for 7 years, went to the red sea on holiday with the diving club last year, had a great time, but I kind of liked the diving instructor gorgeous smile, and believe me I'm not one to start things if I cannot finish them and not into one night stand, but one thing after another (after having spent the whole week with him, just as an instructor..) anyway, when I got back to the UK, he kept calling texting and emailing, I then thought well maybe there is something there, as he was making the efforts, it was not for Visa (as it happened to be before so I know the signs now) as he was earning quite good money doing his job, the more he got in touch the more I was missing him, so I decided to go back 6 weeks later for a week, I stayed at his flat, and believe me the atmosphere was a bit different, he was very distant, anyway, didn't really get why he was so insistant if he didn't really want me there...when I left he said he was going to miss me and all that, but i did found some notes from other women telling him how great he was blablabla, that just hit me, he never left his phone away, and when it rung, never answered it, should have known better, oh well still had a great week of sunshine and free accommodation

dfminsa
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8/19/2008 00:09    
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I've read this post a coupe of times, mostly because I'm engaged to an Egyptian man, and I'm from the U.S. Honstly it depends on how you meet some of these guys. If you meet them while on holiday/vacation, then yeah, chances are you're going to end up with a broken heart. You really need to get to know the guy. There are some that are very controlling and overbearing. Then there are those that are very laid back and go with the flow. A week isn't enough to get to know anyone. Even if you were to sit there and talk for 24 hours a day for the full 7 days. You need to get to know their personality a little more. A good Egyptian guy is worth it. My man treats me like a queen, and I love him so much. Then again, we've been together for almost 2 years. So, if you're interested in and Egyptian man, then try to meet them in other ways, not on a week long hoiday/vacation, but then again, I think that goes for any guy in any country, not just Egypt. Good Luck!

Cairoluvin
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8/19/2008 04:06    
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Sorry to disappoint, but the same feedback from me! I met my HALF egyptian husband in university in holland, he already has a foreign passport and a mixed family. We moved to egypt after having been transferred here by the company he works for. My husband is not religious (not that that would be a bad thing), he was raised abroad, and is very western in every way. After one year we will be transferred again. If this was not the case, this relationship would never work.

The question you posted has been posted online millions of times; its an old story and has gone wrong a million times. And trust me, you cannot live here on the salary of a guy who has not even finished college...you'll live in a dump...sorry to burst your bubble!

Trueegyptian
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11/30/2008 07:39    
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Class is not the issue, but type of job and as a consequence the salary most definitely is! These kind of peple earn about ten bucks a day all in, and you cannot conceive how they live.

Enjoy your holiday romance and call it quits.

aseagal
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4/2/2011 18:53    
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Hi, I am a Canadian journalist trying to get in touch with English speakers of Luxor for an article on western women marrying Egyptian men in Luxor. Because I write for Canadian publications, I really need to speak to at least one Canadian, though would love to hear from other English speakers too. Please contact me if you can help!

SalmaHAH
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4/2/2011 22:52    
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Here is my story. I met and fell madly deeply truly in love with my man from Luxor. To make a long story short, he got $47,000 out of me and returned to Egypt for his sick father, who subsequently died (at least so he told me). I have not seen my husband since 6 September 2009. Maintained sporadic contact until about 2 months ago when he again asked me for money. He refused to come back to me and lost the Conditional residency status for the US. He asked for money and I couldn't send it to him. I haven't heard from his since. His name is Ezz Hassan Ahmed Hassan and he is from the West Bank of Luxor. Tell me the name of your man because I might know him as I met many of my 'husband's' friends...heck for that matter you might even be talking to my husband who I haven't divorced yet. To know that I was played for a fool and yet to still love him is a fate worse than death.

menas
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4/3/2011 08:48    
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You have to be very careful, nothing to be added to what SalmaHAH said.

CindyAswan
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1/5/2012 09:30    
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SalmaHAH - so sorry :(

noor7
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2/13/2012 15:24    
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I read your post and felt that I should respond. If you pursue marrying this man you might have a good experience and you might have a really terrible experience. I have heard of too many marriages of a similar nature fail miserably and very few end up happily. First, I think it is important to point out that him proposing marriage to you is a good thing (unless he has bad intentions and just wants to marry you for your citizenship, but I wouldn't know the sincerity of his intentions since I don't know him). The process of marriage is very different in the West (Judeo-Christian tradition) than in the Islamic tradition. People in the first tradition usually have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship which involves holding hands, kissing, hugging, and sexual intimacy and then if their relationship is successful it can end up in marriage. However in the Islamic tradition if a Muslim is sincere in his/her intentions for marriage then he (or she) will propose at the very beginning of the relationship and then the engagement period is the time when they get to know each other through a courtship (i.e. no physical/sexual behavior). If the engaged couple realize that they are not compatible for marriage, then they break the engagement and search again for the right person to marry. Unfortunately you find a lot of Muslim men who know about the difference in how people get married in the West and sometimes take advantage of Western women by having a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship (usually just to have fun) and end up not having the sincere intention of getting married. So when you said that he said that he wants to get married, that could mean more than one thing. It could mean that he is sincere with his intentions with you and wants to get married to you instead of taking advantage of you. It could also mean that he would have a ticket to your country and a better life. I do not know him, so I don't want to assume that he is after you for your citizenship, he could just sincerely love you and want to marry you, you are the best judge of that. However, even if he is sincere in his intentions of marrying you and wanting to marry you for who you are and not your citizenship, there are other things that are very serious issues that you need to consider. First, is are you willing to leave your country and live in Egypt and not necessarily have the luxuries that you are used to if you were rich before. Second, are you wiling to raise your children as Muslims? If you marry a Muslim man then you have the right to keep your religion (i.e. if you are Jewish or Christian). However, it will be expected of you to raise your children as Muslims. Third, are you interested in becoming Muslim? Because if you are then I would strongly recommend converting to Islam before getting married and realize that it would be a very serious decision/commitment that would change the rest of your life and lifestyle. Converting to Islam is a process that wouldn't just happen over night and you would need time to adjust to having a new religion and getting to know and understand your new identity. You also have to consider your family. They might disown you if they absolutely hate the idea of their daughter becoming Muslim. You also have to make sure that if you get married, that your family (it doesn't matter that they are not Muslim) would be treated with the same respect and rights as your husband's Muslim family because sometimes Muslims forget that in Islam non-Muslim family members must be treated with respect and have the same rights that they do. If you are not serious about getting married to this man, then it would probably be best not to see him again and consider getting to know and marrying someone else in your own culture. Best of luck to you.

noor7
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2/13/2012 15:24    
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I read your post and felt that I should respond. If you pursue marrying this man you might have a good experience and you might have a really terrible experience. I have heard of too many marriages of a similar nature fail miserably and very few end up happily. First, I think it is important to point out that him proposing marriage to you is a good thing (unless he has bad intentions and just wants to marry you for your citizenship, but I wouldn't know the sincerity of his intentions since I don't know him). The process of marriage is very different in the West (Judeo-Christian tradition) than in the Islamic tradition. People in the first tradition usually have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship which involves holding hands, kissing, hugging, and sexual intimacy and then if their relationship is successful it can end up in marriage. However in the Islamic tradition if a Muslim is sincere in his/her intentions for marriage then he (or she) will propose at the very beginning of the relationship and then the engagement period is the time when they get to know each other through a courtship (i.e. no physical/sexual behavior). If the engaged couple realize that they are not compatible for marriage, then they break the engagement and search again for the right person to marry. Unfortunately you find a lot of Muslim men who know about the difference in how people get married in the West and sometimes take advantage of Western women by having a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship (usually just to have fun) and end up not having the sincere intention of getting married. So when you said that he said that he wants to get married, that could mean more than one thing. It could mean that he is sincere with his intentions with you and wants to get married to you instead of taking advantage of you. It could also mean that he would have a ticket to your country and a better life. I do not know him, so I don't want to assume that he is after you for your citizenship, he could just sincerely love you and want to marry you, you are the best judge of that. However, even if he is sincere in his intentions of marrying you and wanting to marry you for who you are and not your citizenship, there are other things that are very serious issues that you need to consider. First, is are you willing to leave your country and live in Egypt and not necessarily have the luxuries that you are used to if you were rich before. Second, are you wiling to raise your children as Muslims? If you marry a Muslim man then you have the right to keep your religion (i.e. if you are Jewish or Christian). However, it will be expected of you to raise your children as Muslims. Third, are you interested in becoming Muslim? Because if you are then I would strongly recommend converting to Islam before getting married and realize that it would be a very serious decision/commitment that would change the rest of your life and lifestyle. Converting to Islam is a process that wouldn't just happen over night and you would need time to adjust to having a new religion and getting to know and understand your new identity. You also have to consider your family. They might disown you if they absolutely hate the idea of their daughter becoming Muslim. You also have to make sure that if you get married, that your family (it doesn't matter that they are not Muslim) would be treated with the same respect and rights as your husband's Muslim family because sometimes Muslims forget that in Islam non-Muslim family members must be treated with respect and have the same rights that they do. If you are not serious about getting married to this man, then it would probably be best not to see him again and consider getting to know and marrying someone else in your own culture. Best of luck to you.

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