Egypt Expat Forum - here we go again english woman and egyptian man

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yazz1972
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11/10/2011 09:43    
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i have been searching the net and found hundreds of dissaster stories of british women and egyptian men. im going to start posting on this site as i am at the very beginning of a relationship if you can call it that with an egyptian and i want those interested to see how it pans out and would appreciate sensible comments. i am a muslim woman, born in the uk. i have 2 properties, 3 grown up children, 2 good jobs and a very good life. i have been single for 7 years and had given p hope on finding my soul mate about a year ago. im not stupid, im very down to earth and ive been round the block. im very independent as are my daughters and i am very wary of men from any background as i have had a few bad experiences in the past with men living in the uk. ive been on dating sites but have never felt any chemistry with anyone. i have been to egypt 4 times. twice with my daughters and twice on my own. i love the country, i feel at home there, and the locals think im egyptian and imediately speek arabic to me untill i tell them im english, then they dont believe me. lol. i went to sharm in october 2011, not wanting to meet anyone, i am well aware of the fraudsters in sharm, the good looking young men, charming, out to get my money ect. i wanted a rest. but then i met mahmoud who works at the pool. he told me off for not having my pool card. lol the next day i gave him my pool card and later we had a brief chat. he was very serious, like an old head on young shoulders. he is religouse and always went to pray. he asked if i wasnt doing anything later we could go for a coffee. i took his number but didnt call him, i went shopping instead. the next morning i had flowers on my balcony form mahmoud. he said he waited fr my call, i explained i wasnt looking for a man to go out with. we chatted at points throuout the day, although he wasnt allowed to talk to me too much. in the evening i had no plans so thought what the heck, he seems nice, we get along, hes not immature, so i txted him and we met and went out for a coffee by the sea. ok, here we go...WOW ive never felt chemistry like this before. we talked for hours. hes very religious as i am, we spoke about the differences between the life of a woman in egypt and in england. he has his views and i have mine but the discussion was good and he was wrong and knew it. he was to get married a month before and had set up his flat for his new wife. but the marraige didnt happen as he told me he didnt want to marry her, she was only 18 and wanted to go clubbing and he was not interested in such things.but his father wanted him to marry her. the relationship broke down and the marraige was off. she has since married someone else. for the rest of the time i was there, we spent days and evenings going out together. i never gave him any money, he never asked for money. only one time, i offered to take HIM out for dinner, as i wanted to go to an expensive restaraunt id seen. I ended up paying for half of it and he payed the rest. WE NEVER HAD SEX, and he never stayed the night with me. no sex before marraige ect. we grew more attracted to each other, and the chemistry got stonger. I cant belive it but on the last day i cried when i had to leave, i cried on the plane because i felt id found the man ive been looking for. we are in touch every day. he hasnt asked me for anything but to send him a photo of me by email. i am going back in february. mahmoud has asked me if he can take me to meet his family. i said yes as id like to see where he actualy comes from. sometimes i feel like a right idiod, stupid british woman, who thinks this man feels something for her. dont want to make any mistakes. everything i have is for my children and always will be, but i miss him sooo much and have never felt this for any man , not even my childrens father, that wasnt love. i would not leave my children and go to egypt, i have too much to lose. if he askes for anything or anything changes before i go in feb2012 il will post it on here. thankyou, and sorry for an epic email!!! will keep you posted.
yazz

yazz1972
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11/10/2011 10:10    
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by the way, hes 30 and im 37. and yes i posted that story as i have doubts after reading disaster after disaster. initail thoughts please.

Doddy
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11/10/2011 13:53    
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Hi there, I'm a British/Egyptian and I have been married to my English wife for 12 years. I also have number of Egyptian friends are or have been married to British women for considerable period of time. I have never asked my wife for money, I work hard to provide good level of living for my wife and my child. The majority of friend also are hard workers and they take well care of their families. I meet my wife in the United State, and all my friends have meet their wifes here in the UK or in the USA.
Your story is very familiar to me, I have heard number of similar stories back home in Egypt and here in the UK. In addition, I know number of Egyptian guys here in the Uk were married to forign women in Sharm and Luxor. Very few of these guys continued in their marriages. They have used these venerable women as a bridge to come to the UK. Neither myself nor anyone else could tell you what will happen in the future, however, from where your story has begun I could tell you that it's a very similar story what I previously heard. Be careful and just consider people's advice. Good luck

RaheliOmSarah
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11/10/2011 16:32    
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Every man and woman is unique, in Egypt as well as the rest of the world. I am married to a younger Egyptian man, from a wonderful family, who all love and respect me and treat me like a queen. The thing is, we knew each other for 5 years before we got married. During that time, he went to Saudi Arabia, and worked very hard, sacrificing much for money to give his sister a nice wedding and good dowry, and for our wedding and honeymoon time together sightseeing and vacation. He is educated though, very well with a Master's Degree and Post graduate diploma.
My daughter's father died when she was a baby, and Medo (my husband) has taken on the role of father, and although Islam usually doesn't allow for adoption of children, changing their name etc., he is willing to do that if she so chooses. He ALWAYS supports us, in every way. Financially, emotionally and generously. He works hard, and as the eldest son (his family are very traditional Egyptians and good Muslims), he supports his parents, and my mother who is elderly and widowed. Although he and I have an even greater age ratio than you (I'm older), it doesn't matter to him, nor to his family at all!

The prophet Mohamed, PBUH married a woman 25 years his senior. She was his only wife, and I'm sure they had genuine love between them for their entire marriage of 25+ years.
If a man is a good, genuine Arab, according to TRADITIONAL standards, he will be an excellent husband, as mine is! He, and his entire extended family, have become beloved members of my extended family here. My Egyptian family is kind, loving to a fault, and although much poorer than some, and my m-i-l is illiterate, they are sooo generous with my daughter, whom they love and claim as their own.

I'm Jewish, and my husband and inlaws all have respect for our religion and traditions, because we are 'people of the book'. I was married to an American for 5 years before, and there is NOOOOO comparison.

Medo is an Arab man, a genuine man. My daughter and I met (now) our whole family there, 4 years before we married. We had a big traditional Egyptian wedding, after the Henna party.

After that, he worked in Saudi Arabia for 3 years (a necessary sacrifice for us so that he could fulfill all of his family obligations, we had a legal "wedding contract" signed in Cairo, before a Judge in the Marriage It's the only marriage accepted by the American govt. Standardized, if you will, to reduce the fraudulent "visa weddings".
Many years ago, when we first met, I must admit to having been skeptical, because of the difference in our ages, religions, and cultures. Every case is different, and actions speak louder than words!!

Just be sure you don't ever try to "lie to yourself" or "make justifications" for any of your gut ( previously typo'd "guy") instinct! I did that with my previous (American) husband, and ended up having a very challenging, not-so-good marriage. There are good people, and bad people in EVERY race and culture. If you trust your own judgment, don't worry about anyone else and their situation. Just be honest with yourself, and when you meet the "right man" from ANY race/culture, enjoy your life together!
OF COURSE, there is a lot of room for misunderstandings of different culture, customs and traditions and the first years of getting to know one another can be challenging!! HOWEVER, if you BOTH have self-respect, and respect for one another, you'll grow all the closer for having learned to understand!
I wish you all the best!!!
Racheli om Sarah

yazz1972
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11/11/2011 06:06    
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racheli, thankyou so much

yazz1972
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11/11/2011 06:14    
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update. spoke on the phone last night. he never mentions money so i wanted to ask a leading question. i asked how much do you earn in a month mahmoud? he replied. i earn enough habibi, dont worry, when you come i will look after you. so i though ahhh how sweet, but i told him we look after each other. then there was no more talk about money. i must say his reply pleased me and i believe it was genuine. thanks to all the replies, it realy helps.

RaheliOmSarah
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11/11/2011 10:13    
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helane
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11/10/2011 16:40

trust me when I tell u that your entire story could be my story...except I met my Egyptian on the tram. Yes it can work out with you and him...there are a few,and I mean a few honest sincere Egyptian men that can really make great husbands. I am an American Muslim who married my Egyptian husband not too long ago after going back and forth for 2 years...finally I moved to Alex to be with him...life is too short and you will always be asking yourself What if? so,I say..give it an honest chance with him..Good luck


I moved this to the correct thread, it was on the next one about coming to cairo...

boudica
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11/11/2011 17:41    
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Totally agree with you. I am from SA and my fiance from Alex. We have been together now for a few years and plan to be married in December . I am moving to Alex on December 4th. We are very much in love and i would not trade him for all the gold in Fort Knox.. Moh has never once asked me for money or asked me to pay for anything at all. I have a daughter of 22 yrs and he actualy asked me to sign my properties over to her as he wants to support me as he feels that is the man's 'job' so to speak. Yes, it is going to be hard living for the first couple of months, I realise that much, but am ready and prepared to do all to ensure our happiness. My only one big fear is now to find myself a job in Alex! lol

yazz1972
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11/12/2011 12:45    
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hi boudica,

sounds like you found a good one. And its good to hear positive replies. congratulations for december. please keep me posted if you can. i wouldnt be able to move to egypt, mabey when i retire if me and mahmoud are together, but i couldnt leave my girls for a long time yet. although i think its hard for the egyptians to come over to the uk, but that would be ideal. theres me thinking way ahead of myself, but i like to know whats what. Youre very brave leaving SA though, you two must realy be in love. thank you again for the reply.
yasmeen

Marro
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12/5/2011 18:15    
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Dear Yazz

i am egyptian male , and i am familiar with the culture , and i can say you found a good one , as he did not look for making love with you. and i suggest you can go forward with the relation,
However, he will be thinking of you helping him to move with you to uk , and he can find job there. and there will be the real test for your love, is it going to syurvive for long time or not!!!
i think it is a normal relation between a man and a woman regardless the money or nationality and as long as you are attracted you will have all the honey.

Best Wishes
But

yazz1972
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12/6/2011 07:58    
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thank you marro.
all is still good so far. im going in february. actually hed rather i go to egypt to live, but i wouldnt untill i retire and my children are settled. so if it goes well i prob will get him to come over for a holiday first and see how it goes.

Joabdalla
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2/20/2012 08:37    
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Hi Yazz .. I have been reading in this forum for a few weeks now but never felt the need to register until I read your post .

Im an English British Christan who also met my Hubby in Egypt .
I'm sick to death of reading the horror disaster stories of relationships between Egyptians Men and European women .

Just to give you a brief background , I met him whilst I was separated from my first husband and I was on holiday with my mum , dad , my two girls and our very close friends . My hubby was drawn to the fact that we were a very close family and shared values of family life . We kept in touch and developed a huge friendship that built into something I will never be able to describe in words.

Over 1 year I travelled back and forth , visiting his family was a big issue for us as they initially had massive reservations about him marrying out of his culture and religion but once they met me and understood that I had good intentions and didn't just want him for fun they welcomed me with open arms .

We decided to get married quite early in in the relationship, the problem was all the red tape and legal stuff to arrange and to ultimately make a decision where to get married . It was important to my family for us to get married in the Uk so we made all the arrangements and we made the huge decision to live permanatly in the uk .

Contrary to popular belief not all Egyptian men want a visa and to leave Egypt and it was heartbreaking for us as a family to say goodbye to his family . Just because they are men and live in sometimes near poverty conditions does not help when a true Egyptian man has to leave his mother and grandmother :-( that's a day I will never forget .

We were married 3 weeks later in my church but the day was marred with a little sadness as half of our family were missing ... People seem to forget these sacrifices that these Egyptian men have to do when they emigrate to a different country with not one family member at their wedding :-(

Anyway we have been happily married in the uk for over 2 years now the chemistry that we felt when we first met is still there , he's taken on the perfect role to my two girls as a step dad and they totally all adore each other ...so up to now you have a success story at last !!!!!

The one bit of advice I would give you and it's got nothing to do with money it's prepare yourself for each time you visit to have your heart ripped out at the airport .. It's a long flight home :-( please let me know how you get on and I wish you luck happiness in your future with your soul mate xxx

yazz1972
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2/28/2012 08:21    
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hi everyone. an update and some advice needed. so i went back to see my egyptian friend on feb 14th 2012. signed a contract so we could be together and left on 21st feb. well what can i say, i had a fantastic time. very emotional goodbye for both of us. hes a practising muslim as am i, he didnt leave my side for the 8 days only to go to the mosque on friday. loved up, yes. hes respectfull, can be moody but thats nothing compared to what ive been through in the past. he has been very reluctant to come to london for a holiday. i had to explain why i couldnt keep comming back to egypt, due to work ect. in the end i had to ask his uncle if mahmoud can come to london. he said no then i explained it would just be for 1 week, he then agreed. mahmoud would have said yes anyway. ok everyone is telling him how its soooo hard to get a visitors visa, hes realy put off and worried about it. ive got togather my bank statements, wage slips, house documents and copy of my passport. i know i have to write a letter of invitation but im not sure how detailed this should be. do i have to prove that weve met, that weve txted? i have a pay as you go phone so cant show them any bills that ive called him. also we met in oct 2011, is that too short a time to be trying to get a visa for him? do i need to send anything else. also, he never asked me for anything. after 4 days of spending his money on me, i just knew he had run out as he didnt want to go out anymore. lol! but i took over from there. i felt we should look after each other. not all on him and not all on me. hes a decent man and i love him, and miss him way too much. i wake up sad every day as i dont know when il see him again or if his visa will be refused. i feel kind of lost at the moment. can anyone give me some advice on the visa application. do you know why so many egyptians get turned down. and what i could do to have the best possible chance of getting the visa for him. hes getting his papers ready aswell. i only need him to come for a week. then il go back and see him in egypt. thanks so much everyone,

Joabdalla
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2/28/2012 08:53    
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Hi

I posted some info to you last week but it seems to have got lost in cyber space !!

To be successful applying for a visitor visa for someone that is in a relationship you need to prove that he has links back to his own country . Also a letter from his employer giving him permission to take time off work which should include his expected date he is to return to work .

Any letters from his family members would also help with the content expressing their acceptance of his visit and the purpose of it .


Any bank statements or official documents showing any funds he has or land he owns in his name would be useful but if not as long as you can prove you have the means to support him on his holiday would be fine . Include any photos of your house .

There is a question on the application form which states who will pay for your trip ! Just answer honestly if you are paying and include the details of where he will be staying in your letter .

If your children know of this relationship then ask them to write a letter also explaining that they would love to meet him .

In your letter of invitation start it with dear British Embassy ... I would like you to consider issuing .....bla bla ...with a visitor visa to visit me in the Uk for the purpose of a holiday ...... Then continue on with your story , I would be as honest as possible in your letter .

Just a reminder any documents that he provides needs to be translated into English alongside the original .

Your pay as you go phone can be requested as a statement it costs around £10 all you have to do is phone customer services and they will advise you ... Think you have to request it in writing !

Print off some screen shots if you chatting online if you use a web can !

Basically what they are looking for when they issue a visitor visa is the likely hood that he will return back to Egypt . The visa is for a min of 6 months but as long as he can prove his ties back to his country they should have no reasons to refuse .

We was refused a visitor visa on the grounds of us having a genuine relationship and the face we didn't provide any documents that proved he would return . So the next one we applied for was a fiancé visa which they couldn't very well refuse as they had already admitted that our relationship was genuine !!

If you need any more advice please don't hesitate to contact me xx Jo xx

ruthgaunt
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4/20/2012 10:55    
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I am doing it too.

I met my man whilst I was on holiday - I fly out on 9th May to marry him.

I have heard all the scare stories but I would rather regret doing this than not doing it.

I am frightened - I am leaving my 4 grown up children here in the UK and I will miss them sooooo much but I have been single for too long.

Wish me luck! If any of you are in Luxor get in touch!

Hettie
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4/21/2012 04:08    
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Some stories are true, but not all men are like that.
Please note if you buy a house, let translate everything and make sure the contract on your name.
I am whit my Egyptian husband now for 4 years, unfortunately I can not live in Egypt.
I wish you much happiness and wisdom.

Greetings Hettie

ruthgaunt
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4/24/2012 06:39    
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I am so glad I have found this thread.

Everyone around me says they 'hope' all goes well for me and Ayman, but they all believe that it will turn into one of the disaster stories - it is so good to hear that there are good outcomes too.

One thing I am sure of is that he is not just after a visa - he doesn't want to walk away from his role as head of his family in Egypt - his mother, brother and 3 sisters depend on him - I have no idea what happened to the dad.

He knows I am poor by UK standards - I have no property or savings - so if he is after money he is out of luck.

I am going on my gut instinct - when I am with him we communicate without needing to talk, I feel safe, loved and cherished.

I fly out to Luxor to marry him in 15 days - this is going to be the hardest thing to do as I leave my 4 grown up (ish) children here. My daughter is trying to be supportive but it is breaking her heart too. My sons don't seem to mind!

I have converted to Islam, and this has helped me a great deal - I feel at peace with my decision and in-shh-allah all will be well.

Wish me luck . . .

boudica
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4/26/2012 12:59    
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Hi. Congratulations and good luck to both of you. I got married to my husband 5 months ago and live in Alexandria. Mine is a success story as we truly love each other very much and are very happy. My husband is a gem and will do anything for his wife. Yes, there are a lot of scam artists and if a western woman is not careful she will be taken in. Just take care and be sure his family also accepts you. Remember eastern men are very close to their mothers and that is not a bad thing but, be sure you can handle that. Here's wishing you all the best for lifelong happiness. Aisha

boudica
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4/26/2012 13:14    
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Hi there! Good luck to you and Ayman. I do know an Ayman from Luxor ..... sounds a lot like him and his situation. Maybe the same guy? lol would that not be something. Tell me more about YOUR Ayman. Would be great if it is the same guy ... we could all meet?

juanmegel
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4/26/2012 21:35    
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Greet boudica ,..
but i'm not Ayman i'm Ahmed it's diffrent more y, a, nd n
and i don't know him but anyway thank you for compilmo
and really want to meet you and sit wz u and talk 2 u
coz i see you are friendly
want is this your real name bodica

boudica
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4/27/2012 18:13    
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hi Ahmed ur girlfriend called u ayman from luck though and her description of u is the same as my friend Ayman from the same area, my mistake sorry......

juanmegel
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4/28/2012 17:27    
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you are welcome body
ayman ayman no problem :)

do you have facebook account add me
make search
herr.ahmed@gmx.de

boudica
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4/29/2012 15:09    
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If it is okay with your fiance then I would not mind adding you Ayman. All the best of luck to you guys with the wedding. Let me know how all went.

peggers
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10/5/2012 21:13    
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firstly im so glad finding this thread, im currently living and working in egypt hurghada, the purpose of my move here was for work and experience. After hearing all the horror stories of Egyptian husbands etc. i came out here keeping myself to myself and not evening giving anybody the chance. Sometimes you come across people that just blow your mind away and thats what happened to me when i met ahmed he also worked in the same hotel i was working in. Me being english im a friendly person and like to make a effort with people which i did and i became such good friends with ahmed, we met in coffee shops, shopping etc. never asked for anything, continued to be such good friends, 1 year down the line im currently engaged to be married, his family are lovely and he has the acceptance from my family also. Yes we both come from completely different cultures and backgrounds and sometimes things clash but you just take every step as it comes, the most important thing is we both understand each others views and opinions. Work and living is hard in egypt, we both are on very low salary's and the cost of living does break the bank a little but we get by, we love each and thats how we get through it. My family invited for us both to come to the UK for christmas (thats right my family, not me) and to pay for our tickets as a gift, me and ahmed both spoke and we agreed this is something we would both love to do but right now money is hard for us, so we agreed we would continue to save money and apply for his visiting visa perhaps in the new year. I wouldnt change anything for the world, i have my marriage and a visit to England to look forward too, wish me luck!
good luck to you also!

dreamsofcreation
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10/14/2012 03:38    
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to the forum and wanted to share my story too. I met an Egyptian 28 male 1st September over the internet, I am 35 in Oz, I did not think much 1st until he began email me everyday and then lead to calling me everyday. He did not ask for anything other than to see me everyday on skype. (And I do not use Skype, but thought would see where it goes). But asked to meet me and travel to him in December to and he would pay for everything when I arrive for 1 month. I just pay for the trip over there from Oz and back. He asked for me to give him a chance because I am very cautious have read alot on the internet and had my fair share of battles in love, and are a smart woman. So I agreed with giving him a chance and will go to meet him in December. So although its a scary thing I feel something different about him and have found him to be genuine so far, so in saying this I really want to take my time and really make sure that this is the real thing. I will let you know how my trip goes in December, I am due to arrive 1st December although he wanted me to visit him this month, I said December is better so I will keep you posted. I agree about the stories on here and would like to thank everyone for your blogs, good and bad. It helps me alot to see the bigger picture and the love the romantic love stories as I am a true romantic at heart, I wish you all the very best in love.
Mirree x

Irma
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10/14/2012 06:07    
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give him a change ánd take care. I am Dutch and planning te be in Egypt from 2- 12 december. Where will you be in Egypt? Do you have friends in Egypt from your own country? Just take care !!

dreamsofcreation
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10/14/2012 07:09    
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Hi Irma,
I will be coming from Australia and staying in Cairo for the month, I do not have any friends in Egypt, I am open to meet honest friends for a chat and coffee.
Mirree x

melissa1984
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10/16/2012 08:29    
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Just as long as you stay wary, this could be ok. Don't sign anything. Remember all contracts are binding and benefit the man. It took me years to understand that most of the men want a financial boost up and easy sex. The religious and cultural differences are HUGE and most women live terrible lives (in upper egypt especially). Life is far better in your country and while I love Egypt, men and women are not equal in this country, even amongst the educated.
And the religious differences and language barriers create isolation for many foreigners. Stay honest with yourself and follow your intuition. If he ever asks for money or tries to push you about anything, be wary. Best of luck, Melissa p.s. remember words are cheap

boudica
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10/16/2012 11:04    
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Hi, I have been living and working in Alexandria for one year now. My fiance is great and i love him to bits. His love for me I am sure of as well. He had never once asked me for money. However, I love with him and his parents and it is very very hard. The cultural differences are enormous. His parents are very good to me, not a problem there, but we are not even allowed to hold hands,let alone being alone together. I do not know how long I can still live this type of life. My love for him keeps me here, but I am not happy. You be very, very, very careful. No matter what his friends or family might say to you, you are still not Egyptian and that counts against you. Believe me. I know

melissa1984
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10/16/2012 22:50    
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I agree with everything you are saying. Can you move into your own place? Melissa

dreamsofcreation
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10/21/2012 02:43    
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Thanx Melissa,
I won't be signing any contracts until I know every little detail because I am well aware of the money and sex to get ahead bull**** that some guys play, I've learnt the hard way too, here in my own country in Australia. But I must say I don't regret it because it has taught me to respect myself more and put myself 1st always and that has really changed me to attract a better person. I leave on the 1st of December, I'd loved to catch up with some girlfriends in Cairo, especially anyone already living there, its always so nice to get a woman's perspective on things.
Ciao Mirree x

dreamsofcreation
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10/21/2012 02:50    
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Thanx Boudica,
That is so good to know also, because he has talked about marriage and living in Egypt, but I was thinking it would be smarter to buy my own apartment in Egypt and live away from the family, that way he can come and visit me to get away from family and work. And it would mean I can still have my own freedom. Yes foreigners can be seen as outsiders, but if you play your cards right, I am sure you find a smart way to create a better situation so that your love is not cramped. I understand this because this is something that I do not want if I decide to take the relationship further. I am already planning ahead so that I have the best possible outcome for myself and my love. Love needs to breathe and have lots of natural sunlight and fresh air, to feel comfortable and nurtured.
Mirree x

Irma
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10/21/2012 11:53    
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you wrote "smarter to buy my own apartment in Egypt" ; well thats not easy at all, so do not do it in your first time in Egypt, and if you have; do you think he will be able to stay in your appartment: that is "forbidden"when you are not married

dreamsofcreation
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10/21/2012 18:07    
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Hi Irma,
I like to plan ahead so nothing will be taking place in a hurry, do not worry dear.
Will you be going to Cairo with friends from your country?
Mirree x

Becs1975
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12/7/2012 05:20    
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am with an Egyptian who I met 1 year ago. I made the big move of giving up my job in the uk and leaving my friends and family for the man I love. I have lived in sharm for 1 year now and have to say I am convinced he is 100% genuine.. He treats me really well, I have never given him a penny and he would do anything for me.. I have been to Cairo and met his family a few times and they are all lovely.. My dilemma is I love him lots however I am struggling with a few things.. He gets very jealous if i talk to any men or want to do normal western things like go out with friends ( which is rare as I have very few!!) which makes me feel very isolated.. I see him every day and every night, he never leaves my side so I know he is not up to no good as neither am I.. I just miss normal interaction which makes me question my future and future of potential children... Maybe I was naive to the huge cultural and religious differences.. He makes comment to change my religion but doesn't push it.. He wants to marry in Cairo in a few months.. I am very undecided between love and my long term happiness.. Help and advice please :-)

melissa1984
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12/7/2012 10:13    
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Don't marry him. You have no idea how many rights you will be giving up and the embassy won't help you. Once you marry him, he owns you and the kids. You cannot leave the country without his permission. They are very jealous, why else do the women wear covers? Because the men don't want them to be seen. And yes you will be very lonely. These men have a tradition of wanting the women to stay in the house and focused only on them and once you marry him it will be far worse because you cannot just up and leave. Talk about loney and isolated. And how about your work....are you working because one person can never fill the void of community and needing to have stimulating relationships and work. I promise you that this will be the worst mistake you have ever made and everything is on the line. I went through this....this is a male dominated culture and owning your wife is part of the deal. Unless you are ok with being owned and isolated you will be miserable and
you cannot leave the country without his permission. The cultures are vastly different and cannot be rectified for most of us. Good luck. Do what is right for YOU and pay attention to the warning signs which will become far worse after you are married. Melissa

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
12/8/2012 02:24    
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I think melissa1984 has gone a bit OTT in her response, but I tend to agree with her.
I think you have to make up your own mind. I have known a few foreign women that have married Egyptians and are happy, but what I kept thinking about while reading her response is the political situation we currently have in Egypt. If she had such a bad experience back under the Mubarak regime, consider how much worse it might be now under the Muslim Brotherhood or could be if they get the constitution they are working to get. Women and children will have fewer rights than they did under the old regime.
If it were me, I would use that as an excuse to hold off on getting married. There should be NO HURRY to marry, and if he can't understand your concerns on that front, he isn't the right guy for you. And if you aren't concerned about that, then you may as well convert to Islam, or you aren't mature enough to consider such a marriage.
If he won't allow you to go out with friends alone with out him now, it won't change, probably. It is more than him just being "jealous". Consider the preconceived ideas we Western women have about Arab-Muslim men. The same holds true of them having preconceived ideas about us. I think it may take more than a year of being together to completely dispell those ideas. Like melissa1984 is validating everything we've ever heard about the men, so are his friends probably validating everything about Western women to him - maybe not by saying anything, but by sleeping with the women on one night stands and playing the game. Sharm would be a difficult place to get away from that, I imagine. The whole place is so full of players....and Western women living up to our reputation too. How can you not be touched by it?

Good luck in making your decision, but keep in mind that if you choose to marry him, #1 - NEVER give him your passport and #2 it might be harder to change your mind a year down the road than you considered. I don't know how old you are, but I bet you have time to wait.

melissa1984
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12/8/2012 08:56    
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I agree with Casual
Cairo. This is not to say that so many of the Egyptians I have met are absolutely wonderful and the overall culture is embracing even of us Christians. In fact Egypt feels like home to me in so many ways, but I learned over many years that marrying an Egyptian is very different from dating one. Don't forget
either, that your life has many components and
a husband is only a piece to the puzzle of a balanced and full life. You know deep down what the answer is. Be honest with yourself and remember that life in a resort town, allows for a fantasy world that will drift away over time.

Becs1975
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12/9/2012 01:46    
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Thanks both Melissa and casual Cairo for your responses, they are both helpful and informative.
I actually agree completely with what you have said and know deep down what i have to do. I understand how things may change for the worse now the brotherhood are in power and for sure this is bad for me.. I have seen changes in my man in the past year( as you say this is not long) and for sure these will get worse and my fear was it would be a horrible life once I marry.
I have seen some marriages even here in sharm work.. With genuine kind Muslim people however i feel I am too independent and strong willed to give up all my life for love.. As Melissa said a husband is just 1 aspect which touched my heart.. I do love him lots but also love life which I feel I am missing out on.

I am 32 yrs old so no spring chicken but not over the hill(just yet) and my main worry was if I stick here another few years I will miss out on too much.

Western women of course are looked down upon and I feel that every day I live here and I feel I have lost some of my confidence already, I enjoy working but as you said mainly so I can fill some void I suppose..

It will be hard I know, I was married before in the uk for 6 years until he cheated but I'm not bitter it's just life but before this marriage was equal and the fact I never had doubts then but have massive ones now I suppose I answer my own question, but I felt compelled to get some honest in-biased views.. So I thank you.

My main concern was also future children as I didn't see much of s social aspect for them, or good schooling or healthcare, although my 1 friend here married for 5 yrs with Egyptian tried to convince me otherwise I just didn't see it.. I see my brother in the uk give his daughter so much ( not in terms of materialistic things).
Now I just have to be brave and go!!
Thanks again :-)

Becs1975
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12/9/2012 04:21    
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Hi boudica it seems we have similar stories you are very much in love but the country and cultures are worlds apart from our own. I see you are married so things there are difficult for you and even harder living in Alex which is why I could never live in Cairo! In sharm there are at least more westerners but most give us a bad name sleeping with every Tom dick and Harry!! And most are used and abused for sex and money!! I am in love and it will no doubt break my heart to leave him but I have decided I have to do this.. Life is just not enjoyable anymore and as Melissa told me in previous post this is only one aspect.. I used to have a good job, good money, lots of friends, ambition. I have travelled the world seen lots of amazing things.. But now my day to day life consists of staying in the house not having any social life., being leered at 24/7 by other men who clearly just think i am easy, being ripped off in supermarkets( even happens when we are together as they think i am just on holiday, so have money!!) the isolation you feel as all his friends Egyptian and of course family members when they are all speaking you sit there feeling lost.. As it's obvious not all the translation is given to me of the conversation... The love and romance swept me off my feet but the reality is. Big eye opener..

So please understand I am not slating Egyptians of course there are good and bad, and I believe mine is good but I cannot change his beliefs or culture, his strong opinion of what is right and wrong or how women indeed are seen here!! I often hear from him " I cam because I am a man" makes me angry!!

I am thankful I never married, and given the feedback and my gut feeling I won't.. Which now I know means I can't stay here... I can't waste my life if I am not to marry or have children with him.. I want more for myself and my future children... It's a hard decision but I have to be strong so wish me luck!! :-)

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
12/9/2012 11:17    
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Thank you for your insight Becs. You have lived the romance and the nightmare it sounds like. Your nightmare is mild compared to what it could have been, but it's great to hear from someone that was smart enough NOT to get married and take it that far for what they misinterpreted as "real love" that would last forever. You tried it and can say it is not the right move for most. You need to be a really special person for it to work and even then it's good to live here a while and see if Egypt is right for you with or without a man involved. For me, the country itself was enough and I'm happy to live here, but have NO desire for the drama marriage to an Egyptian will bring into your life.

Becs1975
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12/9/2012 13:22    
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Thanks casual Cairo.. And your right my nightmare was no where near as bad as it could have been..

I recommend anyone thinking of marrying your "true love" live in Egypt over 6 months as the true colours sure start to show and then you can make your own informed decision as I have done.

I am smart and intelligent and have tried to make it work, but seemingly it's not enough for me. I would never get married so quickly in the uk so decided not to rush it here.. And luckily I didn't..

Please girls think very hard, for some you may be fine but give yourself time.

It really is not an easy life..

Thanks again :-)

Deshara0628
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12/12/2012 23:10    
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Hello, I'm new to this forum. I want true and honest opnions. I have met this Egyptian man online and he wants us to marry. I have 2 children from a previous relationship that ended a few years back. I'm a christian woman and he is islamic. He knows all this, my question is though, how hard is it to be accepted in the Egyptian culture as far as me already having 2 kids. I love him so much and he loves me. He knows that I have only been with the kids father and that I am different. I don't date different men or anything like that, though I'm obviously not a virgin, I consider myself a good woman enough for him. Any thoughts on this would be helpful, thanks.

melissa1984
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12/13/2012 09:07    
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if you want the truth, it is on this site? You hae no idea how many rights you would be giving up if you marry him? Egypt is a great place but not so much for women. The
way that you'd be living re standard of living is low. just because you love someone does not mean that you change your whole life, culture, etc. and then drag your kids into it. You need to step back, get more information and realize that egyptians marry at the drop of a hat and it is likely that you are entering
into a nightmare and taking your kids along for the ride, all in the name of love. Be smart and rethink this.

Deshara0628
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12/13/2012 17:26    
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I don't know if I would be willing to move with my two kids there because of the cultural differences but maybe he could come here. Thank you for responding by the way. I guess only time will tell if he would be willing to move here instead. I don't think I could take my kids away from their father....this is so complicated. I wish there was an easier way to make things easier because I truly love this man.

Becs1975
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12/13/2012 20:59    
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Deshara please read my post a few places up...
Life in Egypt is incredibly hard, I am 32 and would like children soon and this is one of the many reasons I don't wish to stay in Egypt.. In my opinion there is no future for them.
My bf was very keen to marry within weeks of meeting but I have held off and boy I am glad I did... He is still very sweet and romantic but eventually he will try to chance your religion, clothes, and stop you socialising.. It all happens gradually.. The culture differences are huge you have no idea... And even if he came to england he is still Muslim so would bring his very very strong beliefs and when your married things will change even more!!
No matter what they tell you in the beginning eventually things start to change and maybe you don't realise.

I agree it is hard, I still love him and scared I am throwing away my true love, but I know deep down if I marry I will give up all my indepence and so many values and believe me life here is lonely and women are less valued that is a fact..
Please think seriously.. And I am just talking about cultural differences here never mind the thousands of scams I see with my own eyes of men getting women to get married so they can leave Egypt to then only leave when the visa is approved.. The most loved up sincere men do a runner with money etc.. I am not saying this is yr case as I don't know the story but believe me living and working here is not all people think it is.. For sure if I had children I would want to provide the best I could and believe me that's not here for most people!!
I wish you luck and feel free to ask anything :-) I am not miss experienced but have lived the romantic love story and now sorting stuff to leave after 1 year living in Egypt.. But believe me if I was married it would be almost impossible to leave...!!!!!

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
12/14/2012 05:14    
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Bottom line - Don't marry someone you only know over the Internet and know NOTHING about his culture. He will say anything to get what he wants....especially these days post revolution. If you think you are in love, come and live here for a minimum of a year to see how things go and how well you like the place.
To say "maybe he will be willing to move here (ie UK or USA)" is rediculous! I'm sorry to be so harsh, but OF COURSE he is willing to move there. That is why he is courting you! The thing neither of you get is that the gov't of the USA or the UK is NOT going to make it easy for you to get him there. There are lines of women just like you standing outside the Embassies crying their eyes out, wondering why the embassy people are so mean and won't let their boyfriend (fiance or even husband) just go to their country with them. Please come spend some time watching all these women with their boyfriends and you will see why the governments aren't letting them all go. In the end, you should be prepared to live in Egypt. Egypt is going to be more open to letting you live here than your country is going to be to letting him go live there.... and that might change too with the current government. Hope not, but it could happen. Best to wait and see what is going to happen.
Sorry to break your heart on this subject but it has to be said.
SORRY!

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
12/14/2012 05:24    
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Further Deshara - DO NOT drag your kids in on this. They and their father do not deserve that. If you want to test the waters here and see if this thing works, you do it FOR YOU, and you leave the kids out of it. If it doesn't work (and you can tell from the responses here that the odds are against you) then there is NO reason why the kids should have been drug over here and had their lives any further disrupted than they already are by the initial divorce. I hope their father is willing to take them while you try this for yourself, if you must. If not, then please put the children first and your need/desires/whatever for a boyfriend/husband/man in your life second. You can take care of that 20 years from now when the kids are grown up, if a better solution for you doesn't come up at home sometime.
Again, sorry to be so harsh, but I've seen mothers do this to their kids over the years I've lived here and it ALWAYS ends up bad. I have yet to find one story where a mother with her children moved to Egypt from a western country to marry some Egyptian and things worked out well. IF anyone knows even one story where the couple has been together (at least) 5 years, please share it.

yazz1972
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12/14/2012 08:44    
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update. i first posted on here 10th nov 2011. so mahmoud and i are still going strong. miss him alot. went back to see him in nov 2012. But havnt done the visitors visa for him yet. he says hes not ready to come to london, even for a holiday! his sister is getting married in march 2013 and then he said he will be free to come. hes still got alot of worries and responsibilities for his family. but mabey its a good sign that he dosnt want to rush over here.... but boy, are all egyptian men moody!! he can be a right moody sod, but when i give it back to him, he appologises. apart from that, and the fact that he dosnt like my cooking! im still in love and all is cool. x

melissa1984
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12/14/2012 09:38    
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Thanks for your honesty CC. I wrote a similar emal but cannot emphasize enough what a horrible move it would be. You have no idea what a nightmare you'd be putting them through not to mention yourself. I don't even think the courts would allow it if your husband disputed it.

Dd100
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2/24/2013 10:16    
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I'm like u all! In the same situation with an egyptain man! He is everything I have ever wanted! But ask me if I trust him and the answer would be no! My heart is saying dont judge him as other bad egyptian men but its hard no to when u hear so much bad stories! Help

yazz1972
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2/25/2013 08:43    
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so its been about a year and 4 months since i first posted on this site.In feb 2012 mahmoud and i did the orfi marraige on valentines day. so heres my update. all is well. i still visit 3 times a year. love and trust is still there. ive been getting to know his good points and bad points and moodiness is one of his BAD points. otherwise i still feel hes the one for me but im happy at the moment with the way things are. havnt done a visit visa for him yet as hes always changing jobs or theres some problem so its no point doing the visa until we know we have everything ready. ive no intentions of living in egypt. and i do miss him when i have to come back home, but luckily im too busy to let it get to me too much. hope you are all ok and look forward to hearing more GOOD stories from you.

yazz1972
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2/25/2013 08:44    
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so its been about a year and 4 months since i first posted on this site.In feb 2012 mahmoud and i did the orfi marraige on valentines day. so heres my update. all is well. i still visit 3 times a year. love and trust is still there. ive been getting to know his good points and bad points and moodiness is one of his BAD points. otherwise i still feel hes the one for me but im happy at the moment with the way things are. havnt done a visit visa for him yet as hes always changing jobs or theres some problem so its no point doing the visa until we know we have everything ready. ive no intentions of living in egypt. and i do miss him when i have to come back home, but luckily im too busy to let it get to me too much. hope you are all ok and look forward to hearing more GOOD stories from you.

lionking2013
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2/26/2013 15:12    
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Hello!

I am an Egyptian/American, and by accident came across this forum. Very interesting views! Of course, everyone has a unique experience and prospective on relationships; not to mention life itself. However, one thing remains constant. That is the adjustment needed to fit within a culture different from your own, especially when being in a different culture involves a personal/intimate relationship with someone else. Believe me, I know all about it. If you cannot adjust and understand how to fit in a different culture (for example, learning the language, traditions, habits etc.), and feel intimidated by major changes, just stay at home where you can be safe around all the familiar things to which you have been accustomed. Just go to Egypt to visit and leave in peace.

Irma
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2/27/2013 11:42    
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lionking2013, do you think that person has to skip her (?) own culture / history/ personality?

lionking2013
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2/27/2013 12:24    
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Not at all !! All I meant to say is to simply be able to expand and go beyond one's own cultural and historical boundaries ( provided, of course, one has the desire and ability to do so). As to personalities, people are who they are. One could have a personality different from his/her own brother or sister, or may be the neighbor next door. Many couples have to compromise to get along to overcome their conflicting personalities.

Simply, all I intended to say is to be open minded about other cultures and, in doing so, you would be able to understand such a culture and have the awareness you need to (a) protect yourself and (b) fit in such a culture if you desire to do so. Sorry if I sounded harsh in my previous post. Best!

melissa1984
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2/27/2013 13:34    
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And you say it so eloquenly and are on the money, from my point of you.....not harsh at all. Melissa

lionking2013
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2/27/2013 15:03    
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Thanks, Melissa! I wish you and your Egyptian friend the best! Of course, like in any relationship, it is only wise to assess your situation carefully with whomever you intend to have a commitment. Leave your options open for contingencies. Alf Mabrook in advance! :-) Magdy

scooby69
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3/23/2013 12:32    
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Hi,

I am currently researching for ITV's THIS MORNING and am looking for English woman to share their experiences of relationships with Egyptian men. Please post on here and I will get in touch.
Best
Tom

melissa1984
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3/23/2013 18:54    
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you can email me at elissabeam@yahoo.com

lionking2013
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3/25/2013 08:55    
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I am a little confused about the specificity and subjectivity of the subject about English Women married to, or having relationships with, Egyptian Men! Why point out the problems relating only to these two nationalities? Why not chose a subject about Marriage or Relationships of English women to foreigners (in general)? Are you telling us that cultural differences or the exploitation of certain women who put themselves in situations leading to their own exploitation (either intentionally or unintentionally) does not exist else where, even within the U.K. itself? Come on!!! Obviously, if such women found men so ideals in their own country they would not have sought or tempted to seek love/relationships else where.

I am an Egyptian male and my wife is an American. We have been married for over 26 years now, and have 3 beautiful grown up children. Over the years, we have had good and bad days like many married couples. We have learned over the years to compromise to be able to get along, and we still love and need each other. I believe my wife thinks of me as a good man and a good husband. There are many good people in Egypt (men and women)! Of course, there are also others who are not so good. Using a generalization to cast "Egyptian Men" in a bad light based on the experience of a few women, is neither fair nor objective. Having said that, I am now reminded that objectivity on TV shows, interested in making huge profits for their owners through scandals and provocations, may not sell as much!!

There will always be people in any society who would not hesitate in taking advantage of others to serve their own interest. In this regard, and historically speaking, I am reminded that GB and many of its people, as a vivid example, have exploited the whole world and its resources for centuries, including countries, such as Egypt!! Does this make me think that ALL Brits are thieves? The answer is no. I am sure many Brits are nice and decent people who believe in fairness, freedom, hard work and decency.

So, my question here is why do you feel the need to generalize subjective views about Egyptian men or any other nationalities (e.g., Greeks, Italians, Spanish, Mexicans, Russians, Irish, British, etc.)?

Joabdalla
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3/25/2013 11:39    
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Totally agree lion King :-)

lionking2013
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3/28/2013 08:27    
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Joabdalla, I hope all is well. I totally agree with your agreement with me, as well! :-)

I see that Melissa1984 has very strong views on the subject. I could be confusing her with someone else, but if I recall correctly, she had posted messages previously that no longer appear on this forum. I believe she was excited and optimistic about a marriage prospect with an Egyptian. However, based on her recent views, one could tell things didn't go well.

I wonder whether she is already on TV and Famous by now!! Anyway, I wish her and the good people on this Forum well. .

Irma
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3/29/2013 09:55    
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it is only about Egyptian men becouse this is a Egypt Expat Forum

lionking2013
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3/29/2013 11:49    
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True! I may have lost sight of this fact! However, my intention is simply to point out the fact that this is a universal issue, and limiting it to problems with Egyptian Men only, as they pertain to British women only, appears to be subjective. I am also not impressed when certain people impose their views on others, as if their views are simply written in stone and their bad experiences are certain to happen to someone else. Of course every person should be careful when getting involved in any culture different from his/her own. However, assuming that a bad experience of someone is doomed to happen to someone else is not always a good approach to life.

Irma
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3/30/2013 03:15    
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Lionking2013, i have been looking for websites in my own country ( we also have so called "loverboys". most of the are not authentic Dutch and this is international
http://www.beznessalert.com/eng/index.html

Margo2
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3/30/2013 04:18    
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There are woman from all over the world how get scamed by this Boys.
Right now I'm trying to explain a woman, that she will be hustled but it is against unfortunately she don't want to hear it. She is in love.

What else can you do? I have previously asked for stories on this site, so that i can make a book off all the stories and than maybe more women can be warned!

Send your story to me at hettievansteenis@gmail.com

Margo2
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3/30/2013 06:14    
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I know that, thats what i meand whit my message. The egyptian man and europen woman.

lionking2013
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3/30/2013 21:27    
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I understand that there are some Egyptian men, especially those involved in the tourism industry, who may fit the description of lover boys. However, these are not the typical Egyptian males. There are many good, honest, kind and decent men in Egypt. As a male, I had many good friends that were like brothers to me, and I would not have hesitated accepting any of them as a husband for any of my sisters. I think the issue here involves the human nature. Sometimes we gravitate towards things that are not good for us. For example, some people love eating too much chocolate, even though they know it is not good for them and makes them gain weight. Right?! :-) Similarly, some women are attracted to bad men. People are unique and each has or would like to have unique experiences that match his/her own personality. My advice to anyone interested in a good relationship is to go after the substance of a person; not just the good looks. Also, trust, but verify! :-)

QueenNeffertiti
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4/26/2013 12:54    
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Salams sister....just one word of advice ...do not look for men outside your own country..there are plenty of men willing to marry you,,one bad expierence with an Egyptian man was all to loose all i had...property is very apealing to them and the most terrible thing these men plan over years ahead..you might be married 15 years andd thinking your marriage works till you will awake and realise it was all a fraud ...as i said these men are doing all in secret never openly and they plan...they have lots of patience when they know the bait is worthwhile

Joabdalla
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4/29/2013 14:09    
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Queen Neffertti that's a very stereotypical statement !!!

I could say the same about My Ex Husband ... English born and bred .

I wouldn't say this is an Egyptian Men problem it's a human one and impacts on both sexes of humans regardless of race or creed .

karimaN
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5/8/2013 16:17    
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Salyam salyam to all!
this man [URL=http://plokna.ru/][IMG]http://radikal.ua/data/upload/49112/4fa6c/cbe6f5bfe1.jpg[/IMG][/URL] deceived two englishwoman. warning!!

karimaN
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5/8/2013 16:18    
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worning!!! deceive man
[URL=http://plokna.ru/][IMG]http://radikal.ua/data/upload/49112/4fa6c/cbe6f5bfe1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

boudica
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5/10/2013 05:09    
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If western women are so gullible and easily fooled then they deserve what they get. Egyptian men are great. End of story.

Irma
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5/10/2013 12:05    
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well thats a stupid end of story

marcynabdou
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6/14/2013 00:52    
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i disagree with the other comment i married my husband in march going back in august he is so loving caring and kind and so is his whole family.i also have 4 kids he knows that and so does his family. i also have alot of tattoos and 2 peircingsno one cares not that i go flashing them tho lol and my husband never been with anyone before me so not all marry at the drop of a hat lol..we are deeply in love have been since a month after we met now its going on 7 months yes things r different living there than the us but embrace it and im sure they will embrace u :) trust your heart good luck

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
6/14/2013 11:15    
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Marcy - I think it is very sweet that you and Abdou are still happy together, but PLEASE write to us in 7 years, not 7 months and tell us what you think then.

You really are still WAY too new to it to be very objective. In fact you say you married in March and are going "back" in August. Does that mean you aren't even with him now? If that is true, then you really need to get some time under your belt with the guy before making comments. Wait until you are living with them and dealing with their feelings about you, you kids, your tats, piercings and everything every day. They might remain the way you say they have been about that stuff, but there is an equal chance that you will be real surprised when push comes to shove and you're in the house with them.

Also, is that 7 months time that you've known each other - 7 months of being in the same city or mostly 7 months of emailing and Skyping and missing each other. REALLY REALLY different if you don't know that yet. I hope he is one in a million, expecially for those 4 kids of yours.

lionking2013
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6/14/2013 12:21    
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I wonder what everyone finds out about his/her partner after 7 years in a relationship, regardless of where or with whome a person has the relationship. I am sure most people cannot predict that. I agree that 7 months are early to judge a relationship. However, any relationship has to start somehow. As to the Tatoo, it is actually not that uncommon in Egypt. In fact, if you are familiar with the Egyptian culture, specificially in upper Egypt, you would know that many females have tatoos on their hands, arms, legs or foreheads (the part of the face above the eyebrows, below the hairline and between the temples). Occasionally, ladies over there wear gold rings on the side of the nose, as well. So, I don't think a Tatoo, in and of itself, would be a disqualifier for a successful relationship! :-) I hope things will work out for you. We all have the right to pursue happiness any where and any time.

marcynabdou
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6/14/2013 14:08    
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Yes its been 7 months since we known eachother its like we have known eachother for years since we were kidshe says lol and trust me I will write in 7 years cuz I know we r right for eachother...I was married to another man for almost 19 years from yemen he raised my two oldest and we have two more...totally different men I must say thought I kbew what love was then but he was just a cheating control freak that jus wanted to keep me unhappy...reason not with abdou now is I had financial reason among personal to come back also to start his visaI would have stayed longer if not..and we did live together met his whole fam they loved me intsantly I was so releived...never felt so much love in such a short time...my kids r older so that is not a problem time for mama to really be happy...I guess when u know u know :)

melissa1984
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6/14/2013 14:14    
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Marcy, good luck to you. I too could not understand your timeline. You have been in Egypt 7 months and then married and are going home for 2 months and then will bring your 4 kids back with you? Will your 4 kids live in Egypt and go to school there too, I guess. Are they comfortable with such a huge change not to mention being away from their father and grandparents.
Just curious because as CC infers, changing your own life is purely your choice but
changing a whole family's life is quite another. Again, just could not tell from your post.

My mother left America at 4 and grew up in Aruba. She had both parents though, but it was a great experience. The language spoken in Aruba is mostly English though, so that helped her.

I like CC will be interested to hear back from you in a year or so and also curious as to the impact of the revolution on life in Egypt. Good luck.

marcynabdou
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6/14/2013 14:15    
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Well thank u and yes they do have to start some where and I never saw one tattoo over there while I was there or a peircing...and trust me no one has tattoos like me over there lol but his whole fam accept me for me and that's all that matters :) I love abdou he is the best thing that happened to me besides my children..god willing I can give my husband 2 lol but if not he say he don't care all he been waiting for his whole life is a caring loving woman like me...thanks again for the words of encouragement god knows I had my own fam n friends to deal with and they now know they were wrong :)

marcynabdou
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6/14/2013 14:23    
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Sorry let me get it a lil better lol we met in dec. Went from march til april going back in august til december. And as for my kids they are grown they will not begoing with me and as soon as visa goes thru my husband will be here with me...and as for the revolution I hope it gets better the people deserve it all they want to do is live and work like anybody else...thank for the good luck :)

marcynabdou
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6/14/2013 14:38    
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Not very good at these forums my husband is tho feel free to add me on facebook friends name is marcy ellasy :)

marcynabdou
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6/14/2013 14:39    
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Good luck sounds like u found a great man like I did..congrats friend

marcynabdou
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6/14/2013 14:52    
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I disagree my hubby doesn't want to come to usa he will if he has to jus like I will move to egypt if I have to cuz really we jus want to start our life but we both know egypt is in a bad place right now...not all men are scams and in any realtionship there is a fight to win this is life and if u don't fight for it u will lose

marcynabdou
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6/16/2013 14:12    
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Wow u can't even hold hands or be alone wtf lol sorry that is aweful.my husbands family is so not like that I feel sorry for u but it is you and your husbands life not theirs they need to understand that...my husbands family loves me so much hugs n kisses all the time .very loving family when we had our celebration for our wedding I felt like a queen so many pics of us kiss n hug dance I will never forget it...never felt so much love and I was married before...so my take on this is your husband needs to stand up for u and himself if he really loves u cuz my husband would never let anything or anyone hurt me not even family at first he didn't even want me to meet his mom n dad jus sisters cuz he didn't want them to judge us well guess what they didn't go for that they wanted to meet me and I couldn't be happier they are amazing cute couple that have raised 8 wonderful kids :) good luck to you u can have a happy life but u have to fight for it :)

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
6/16/2013 14:19    
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Marcy - Where will you live with Ahmed when you come to Egypt? Do you have a flat picked out somewhere yet? Where?

marcynabdou
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6/16/2013 14:20    
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Not all of them are like this lol my husband says he's my slave lo and all men r jealous jus more so middle easter men it the way they were raised and not all women cover up my husband give me a choice if i want to or not..my story is amazing I hope urs can be the same

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
6/16/2013 14:24    
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Where are you going to live when you come back to Egypt? Do you have a flat picked out yet? Where is it?

marcynabdou
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6/16/2013 14:39    
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Abdou they call him that for short his real name abdelhakim :) but in alex we stay in mammorra last time I think that where we will stay again my husband say it much safer and quieter I loved it was awesome

marcynabdou
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6/16/2013 14:40    
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Alex :)

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
6/17/2013 01:39    
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Sorry about the repeat question. I tried to delete the second one. Somehow between my computer, and us posting at nearly the same time, my first question didn't show up to me before you posted again, so I thought it had not been accepted - then I wrote the other one and then of course they both showed up. Oh well.

So what does Abdou do? What's his job? Will you work when you come? I do hear on FB of some foreign women married to Egyptians that teach up there.

marcynabdou
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6/17/2013 02:05    
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He's the teacher I am the student lol jus kiddin he is a mechanical engineer got his bachlors so proud of him was in the army very smart on computers to no work for me there I'm going to see my husband :) his parents very sick right now I pray they don't pass I don't know if he can handle it he already miss me so don't know how he would handle that n I can't go til august to be there for him so I jus pray they get well

marcynabdou
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6/17/2013 02:05    
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He's the teacher I am the student lol jus kiddin he is a mechanical engineer got his bachlors so proud of him was in the army very smart on computers to no work for me there I'm going to see my husband :) his parents very sick right now I pray they don't pass I don't know if he can handle it he already miss me so don't know how he would handle that n I can't go til august to be there for him so I jus pray they get well

melissa1984
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6/17/2013 17:29    
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Just remember new love creates hormones that resemble heroine so go slow and follow that small quiet voice that is where wisdom resides!

lionking2013
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6/17/2013 18:35    
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Glad you are back, Melissa1984! We missed your words of Wisdom.

marcynabdou
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6/18/2013 00:53    
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Lol that hilarious but thanks for the advice melissa

Mooneyes
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8/26/2013 01:25    
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When I met Mohammed a year ago I kept reading stories of Egyptian men. 99% were bad stories. I never talked to him with the hope of a relationship, it started off as a friendship and slowly built to love.

Those 99% bad stories, I figured were because people like to complain and be heard when something is bad, rarely when something is good.

Mohammed was educated, , worked in the medical field. His entire family was also educated with respected careers. They owned their own home (not an apartment) that was beautifully decorated. His parents very wonderful, open minded people.


He would spend hours with me on skype and on the phone calling and texting with me. We talked about everything from religion, to politics, to our personal dreams/hopes of the future, our careers (both in the medical field), our families, and about our own future together.

He had me meet his friends on skype, his entire family including aunts, cousins, etc. He wanted to meet my family also, and then he suggested our families meet.

They invited me to come to Egypt to stay with them so I could meet everyone in person. I stayed in their house, I ate meals with them, traveled around to meet everyone. There were days Mohammed would have to work and I stayed home with his mom and brothers and I had so much fun with them.

I went back home more in love then I had ever been. Not just with him but his entire family. Those 99% stories were wrong, the egyptians were wonderful people, I had the man of my dreams who treated me so perfect, who constantly told me he loved me.

and then....

I find out I was not the only girl he had. Not one, not two, not three, but 4 girls at least that I found out he was talking to at the same time as me. Telling him the same words he would tell me, using the words I would tell him on these girls, I also found out about many past girls that stopped communicating with him. All the same words, the words he used to win my heart. My Mohammed, this educated, religious, sensitive guy who won my heart, was no longer the man I knew.

4 girls was the amount I found out about. I had a chance to contact each one of them about their relationship, how long it had been going on for, etc. 4 girls... 4 that I knew about and I was the only one stupid enough to go meet him! to have plans to marry him.

He never once asked me for money, in fact he offered to buy my ticket to come see him (although he said he knew i would say no because I am very independent).

We only started talking about sex after months of talking and when we both finally declared we loved each other. He was a virgin and was proud of it, it meant everything to him to keep his virginity until he was married.....

All these things these 99% stories warn us about he did not do.

He had also asked me to live in Egypt many times.

I want to tell my story because I believed him, I was getting ready to change my life to be with him forever, change my life in a big way.

Each girl I talked to told me the same thing that they believed him because his words felt so true.

He had asked each one of them about visa to their countries, he never really asked me about a visa to America but we had talked about getting married. Each one of them he invited to Egypt, he couldnt wait to marry them, to spend his life with them and to give them his virginity.

It's taking me a long time to get over him. I mourn for the future we had planned for the man I thought he was. He touched my heart and my mind in a way no one had ever touched before.... and to realize it was all pretend killed me.

I'm not saying all egyptian men are like him or like the other 99% horror stories you read about but I want to caution that even when you go with caution, when everything looks safe sometimes it is not.

I also read a lot that these stories are about older women. I'm young, I'm educated, I'm the "typical all american" blonde hair, blue eye, 5'6', 115lbs girl who loves fashion and sports, who loves to read, travel, likes politics, different cultures, etc etc. I get asked out a lot here, but he was the one who started off as a friendship and i felt I had such a deep connection with, i wasn't with him because I couldnt find love in my own country.

Irma
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8/26/2013 08:16    
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thanx for your open story, i am sorry you also had a bad experience. i hope you will find another good man! Trustfull. Can you tell your story here please? http://beznessalert.com/

melissa1984
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8/26/2013 11:18    
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Thank you for being brave enough to tell your story. Also let me tell you that the idea that most women who fall for an Egyptian man "can't find love in their own country" or are much older and are basically lonely losers is a myth. In my own case I was dating in my own country, very successful law career, but just found Hamdy to be more interestingin every way. What I found so astounding about your story is that his whole family went along with it and that you stayed with them. They did know, right? Whatever the case, you will look back on this and be so glad you did not marry him. May your heart heal quickly, learn the lessons and find a healthy relationship based on honesty and respect.

trixibelle
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8/27/2013 15:15    
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I think personally all this generalization of Egyptian men is a little silly.. If you dont take chances in life you wont learn,, The amount of blogs I have read on this I mean really it wouldn't matter where they are from for instance and ex of mine had so many women on the go that one he ended up with, i kicked him out when i found out but his new girlfriend assumed he lived on his own and had been dating 2 months before i found out. So in all honesty whats the difference, and very rare do I read about women who have been fleeced.. but on the other hand my ex also stole from me but I havent written a blog on 'don't trust English men' it all runs on the same principle..

Everyone has a right to live in any other country and what people have to also be aware it doesnt always mean visa neither there are many ways to obtain some permanency

yes I met and Egyptian but I am not going to generalize him.as he did something any man would have done and have so many believing the same thing but if he picks the one he wants he will stop the others. Im sorry but even us women have done it to make sure we have picked right,, Now I did end it with him and still talking to see what happens now and im not even going to disclose info because people will find fault, rather then see the bigger picture.

live and learn

melissa1984
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8/27/2013 18:26    
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silly, gee that is helpful. I am glad folks have shared THEIR EXPERIENCES HONESTLY, and if I choose to generalize then that is on me.

trixibelle
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8/28/2013 06:49    
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Ok its people like you that give others a bad name, Sorry but it is.... any women scorned or caught in a love trap will let others know.. thats why they are scorned they are hurt.... Maybe you should read all sites and see what they all say they are really no different.. Yes ok you get the ones that really are caught so yes feel free to express but that is how labels are made.......more fool those who have holiday romances too..... all men are pigs as are women its whether you are compatible to each other etc... live with it and deal with it.. like I said if I wrote about my ex you would see how no different it was to a n Egyptian, Moroccan, Turk, etc.....

Irma
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8/28/2013 15:50    
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in the touristic places this is Business, thats the point ( some other countries too)

melissa1984
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8/28/2013 16:21    
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yea the tourist areas more so for sure but that young woman from the USA was dealing with a well educated guy/family from Cairo!

melissa1984
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8/28/2013 16:22    
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yea the tourist areas more so for sure but that young woman from the USA was dealing with a well educated guy/family from Cairo!

Chelsealk92
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8/31/2013 15:39    
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Hello ladies and gents I have been reading all your stories and can not help but register and ask u all if u think I'm crazy. I went away to Egypt this summer for my 21st birthday and had an amazing time. I met a lovely man and he's amazing in every way and like many of you said he has never asked me for money or mentioned money all he ever says is I want to look after you habiby and make you a queen I have been back in the uk for just 3 weeks now. We speak every day on the phone and on Skype he has told his whole family about me and I have met 2 of his nephews and have spoke. To his sister over the phone. I miss him like crazy even tho i was only with him for a week He has an amazing family and wants us to marry in 2014 I'm excited but also at the same time very nervous about moving my whole life to Egypt. Help me ladies am I crazy? Or just crazy in love! Lol nothing happened between us other than going for dinner long talks and massages as he is a masseuse and this is how I met him. He never gives me the impression that he wants anything from me apart from to love me he's a lovely guy and has a great family. So people am I crazy?

melissa1984
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8/31/2013 16:45    
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You know the answer. It all sounds so romantic. A country in the midst of revolution a guy who knows how to say all that we want to hear. My guy said I want to take care of you habibi too. I mean take a good look at Egypt. There is a reason so many young folks want to leave and believe me you will want to leave too and that is when he begs you to take him along. Is your life so cheap that you can just give it over to a guy you have known a week? Go to therapy, not to Egypt. You deserve better than a hard life in Egypt where females are third class citizens. Do you want your daughters to be raised in a country where women are not equal? Do you want to live in a country where you don't speak the language? Do you want to live in a country where you can't get a job or have girlfriends or the basic comforts of home like a great English speaking movie in a nice theatre? Not to mention no alcohol or a social life that resembles anything western.
Given the civil unrest, that alone should keep you home.
The marriage thing, they all start talking about that right away. Don't think you are special, you are simply prey in a big net. If you have to learn the hard way, go, otherwise wake up and smell the roses.

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
8/31/2013 17:17    
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Sounds like she caught a bit of the MMID virus while she was in Egypt. MMID? (My Mohamed Is Different) Just heard that the other day from some women living in Egypt and thought it is pretty difinitive of what happens here.

On the other hand, living in Cairo isn't nearly as AWFUL as Melissa makes it sound like.
1 - Western women have the rights anyone else has - certainly not 3rd class citizens
2 - You could learn the language if you wanted to
3 - You can get a job if you have skills and a College degree. Even without that, if you are creative you can make yourself a job.
4 - We have English speaking movies. About 4 wks ago I went to see Now You See Me. It was new in the states, it was out here too. Go to www.yalabina.com to see what movies are at which theaters.
5 - What do you mean NO ALCOHOL? We have home delivery of alcohol. Google Drinkies or Cheers. They both deliver all the booze made here in Egypt. Plenty to keep most of us Expats happy.
And there are social clubs you can join to know other foreign friends.

What I think Melissa is really trying to say is WAIT and find out if you even know this guy. All too often women get themselves mixed up with Egyptian guys they really don't know very well and way too soon the romantic bubble is burst and they are living in a place that is not what they thought was in the bargain at all.
Just because all of those things are here in Egypt to enjoy, does not mean your husband or his family will accept that you want to partake in any of that.
You have 900 things to talk to your new friend about before you even consider marriage, and if it were me (and it was 16 yrs ago) you really should gather up all the money you think it would take to live in Egypt in the manner you want to become accoustomed and come live here for no less than 2 years NOT married to the man and see what he and his life really is all about.

Besides this - seriously - are you ready to be the wife of a masseure? I mean really? In Egypt that is not exactly a highly respected job. You might want to find out what he plans to be when he grows up.
If he is a Physical Therapist or some one in the Medical field and doing massage on the side, that is one thing, but to be one of the massage guys in a hotel or on a NIle cruise is not considered very respectable. I understand in the current economy lots of people are taking jobs they wouldn't normally do and if this is the case, then you should find out what he really hopes to do to support you and take care of you the way he thinks he can.
9 out of 10 times it's just talk and there are even times when it turns out there are other foreign women involved with the same guy or he is already married. Maybe your guy is the 1 out of 10, but I'll say if you met him in the tourist business your odds go down more. Sorry.
Hope it works out for you if you want it to in the end, but another thing to tell you is DO NOT go crying to the US EMBASSY that they are supposed to let you bring your fiance to America. They see 100's of women in the same boat every month and I can assure you they go behind their closed doors and laugh at the multitudes that come in thinking they can bring an Egyptian man home to America with them. If he is qualified to immigrate, he needs to do that on his own. Being your fiance is NOT going to get him the Golden Ticket. Again, sorry.

Sorry to be so Harsh. On occasion these things work out, but unfortunately, not too often.

Chelsealk92
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8/31/2013 17:40    
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I must say I am loving the replies I am getting on here. Melissa I do speak the language, as for the country being in a revolution this does not bother me all countries have their problems and I believe this state of emergency will be over by the time I am ready to go to Egypt. I don't plan to go back untill 2014 January February times and even tho he says he wants to marry me I have said I will only go in january for 6 months to see how I like life so I'm not saying I will go out there marry and become a good Egyptian housewife and walk 3 steps behind my husband. He can not leave Egypt as he has not done his national service and he has no desire to come to England. Plus if I wanted to leave there's nothing stopping me getting on a plane and coming home. In regards to drinking that comment I find hilarious as I found plenty to drink while I was in Egypt and he is well aware of how western I am I have a number of tattoos and piercings so I'm pretty sure he's aware what I am like especially after spending my 21st bday with me drinking cocktails (me drinking that is not him) he is a modern Muslim and does not expect me to change my faith or how I am. I fully understand your views because they are all valid points that have crossed my own mind. An ur right no man is different but this is why I want to take the time to find out just what he's really about meet his family ect no way would I fly out n marry him straight away I soldo have a job waiting for me and friends living out there too maybe that's why it does not seem to outrageous for me. Thank u for ur opinion it's much appreciated n I'm loving the tough love lol

Chelsealk92
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8/31/2013 18:03    
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Casual Cairo thank you for ur semi support lol. I know that living in Egypt isn't as bad as some people think. And I know ill have rights and tht I can drink see English movies and make friends. I already speak Arabic, have friends in Egypt from England and other places I also have a job waiting for me in February and as for my Man he is not jus a messuce at the hotels e also owns his own spa and beauty shop in more than one place in Egypt so I know that beauty and massage is his future he makes good money has his own home car etc and I do not live in the states so I don't think it's a green card he is after lol I live in the uk and he has no desire to be in England and he hasn't done national service so he can not leave Egypt he is 30 well established and comes from a good family. His family and he knows I am a western girl that likes to have fun I have tattoos and piercings they do not seem to have a problem with me or my way of life they have no issue with my faith either I am catholic and they do not expect me to change my faith or myself which I think is a big thing considering he is the only son of 4 children they are happy for us to be together and can not wait for me to come and meet them I completely agree that we have a lot more to talk about and learn about one another and this is why I want to go for 6 months live life with him and see how we go and how I like life there I have also come home to earn more money and save in order I be able to hold myself up and not rely on him for everything I also have work waiting for me as I am a teacher in the uk also a beautician so work will not be hard to find maybe at this current time yes but I believe the evolution will come to an end and all Egyptians will be able to live life as before hopefully better than before and he makes good money from his businesses he has many talents and works hard. I am not ready to marry him immidietly no but I would be ready to be his wife and live life for the both of us in Egypt if we do work out and stay strong. Thanks again and no worries for ring harsh tough love is the key lol

JessicaRafter
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8/31/2013 19:19    
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I have been reading all this s... for far to long and cant ignore it now.

First off let me tell you my experience.

I have knownmy husband since we were like kids...met online through irc chat for sega dreamcast in 2001. We both were 16. We would talk everyday and over the years we spoke even when he went to saudi and anyone that is familar with the arab culture knows a girl just does not call a the boys house. His parents were ok with this but I did speak on several ocations to his mom and his brothers for years so his whole family knew who I was way before I met him in 2009...

His family were loveing caring and above everything openminded. He never asked me for money or to help leave egypt. There are some great guys there! True it is tho that itf you meet a guy in the tourism feild most likely he is there other than work...ie visa hunter. I lived in egypt for 2 years be4 I came back to the states. He never wanted to leave but the revolution made this too difficult to stay hence y we left.

You can a job in just about anything you want with a BS. Without a BS its harder but knowing english you can goto any school and teach conversational english and you will have the students sign up because you are a foreigner...
You get into the historical sites for like nothing if you are a legal resident or married to an egyptian you pay what they pay...just bring a copy of the marriage papers...if you see something you want and it costs too much to import it you can get it made...english movies are no problem...most theaters in the bigger cities will have the same showing in the regular english without subs...or they keep the movies as they are and cut out the nudies...and just have arabic subs...either way its not much different excite if your a girl you should never leave the house in shorts and a tank top and if you do go with a scarf around your neck atleast. Men will try to ask you for marriage right on the street and you just politly say no thank you and continue on your way.
If you truely like the guy you should just go and live there for a time become completely self sufficient and then if he is still into you make then you decide. Dont take the advice of someone who doesnt know about this place...besides you can buy liquor and beer and have it delivered or go to bars...and yes they do have bars!

JessicaRafter
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8/31/2013 19:20    
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I have been reading all this s... for far to long and cant ignore it now.

First off let me tell you my experience.

I have knownmy husband since we were like kids...met online through irc chat for sega dreamcast in 2001. We both were 16. We would talk everyday and over the years we spoke even when he went to saudi and anyone that is familar with the arab culture knows a girl just does not call a the boys house. His parents were ok with this but I did speak on several ocations to his mom and his brothers for years so his whole family knew who I was way before I met him in 2009...

His family were loveing caring and above everything openminded. He never asked me for money or to help leave egypt. There are some great guys there! True it is tho that itf you meet a guy in the tourism feild most likely he is there other than work...ie visa hunter. I lived in egypt for 2 years be4 I came back to the states. He never wanted to leave but the revolution made this too difficult to stay hence y we left.

You can a job in just about anything you want with a BS. Without a BS its harder but knowing english you can goto any school and teach conversational english and you will have the students sign up because you are a foreigner...
You get into the historical sites for like nothing if you are a legal resident or married to an egyptian you pay what they pay...just bring a copy of the marriage papers...if you see something you want and it costs too much to import it you can get it made...english movies are no problem...most theaters in the bigger cities will have the same showing in the regular english without subs...or they keep the movies as they are and cut out the nudies...and just have arabic subs...either way its not much different excite if your a girl you should never leave the house in shorts and a tank top and if you do go with a scarf around your neck atleast. Men will try to ask you for marriage right on the street and you just politly say no thank you and continue on your way.
If you truely like the guy you should just go and live there for a time become completely self sufficient and then if he is still into you make then you decide. Dont take the advice of someone who doesnt know about this place...besides you can buy liquor and beer and have it delivered or go to bars...and yes they do have bars!

Chelsealk92
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9/1/2013 06:34    
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Thank you for you support Jessica and for sharing your lovely story. I do see and understand where the others are coming from but I speak the language he speaks perfect English and I have work waiting I don't worry for the things like alcohol and movies as I know all of this is possible to get and to see. I'm not going there on the whim of him taking care of me I have come back to the uk to earn money and save so ill have money to live for myself and I won't have to rely on him for everything. He comes from a very good respectable family who are lovely I have not met his mother or sisters but I have spoken with his sister on the phone and have met two of his nephews they all are very supportive of our relationship he has told them all about me an they can not wait to meet me and I think this is lovely considering I'm a English Catholic girl with tattoos and piercings and they have no problem with any of these facts and neither does he. He doesn't expect me to change my faith or beliefs. As I said before he owns his own business's and is just working in the tourist trade to make more money for his family back in Alex as he is the man of this family his father has re married so he provides for his mother and sisters. It's so nice to speak with someone who knows a little bit about this.

melissa1984
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9/1/2013 11:22    
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I think it is very important to take seriously ALL the responses on this website. I am sorry some folks seem them as crap, that is unfair as several good experiences does not undo the others or undo the pain. The main thing is leaving one culture for another is jolting and esp. during this period of serious unrest. I lived in Luxor which is a far cry from Cairo (in good way for me) but remember the folks in the tourist trade can have a different take on things. As was said earlier any problems you may have will not be dealt with by the embassy and if you get married legally your husband has to agree to your leaving the country. As a lawyer, I can tell you that that should concern you even if others don't get that. Look, we all see ourselves as the exception, the one who gets it, but a total departure from your country and the culture you are leaving seems romantic and like an adventure and sometimes is, but I would sell the family farm betting that the odds are against you.

Another piece of info that I thinks weights heavily into this situation is that a dear childhood friend of mine was second in charge at the American Embassy in Cairo. He has his finger on the pulse more than any of us and he said NO ONE LISTENS TO WARNINGS ABOUT MARRYING THE TOURIST RELATED YOUNG GUYS ESP. IN SOUTHERN EGYPT BUT THE PROBLEMS THERE FOR US ARE WAY BEYOND WHAT WE CAN IMAGINE. I believe him. I believe the women on here who have bravely shared their stories while being told their stories are crap and even Lonely Planet has a warning in their publications.
Go slow, trust your gut and remember that many young Egyptian men are under or unemployed and would love other options. I don't blame them, but charm can take you a long way esp. when the men in our countries often lack it. Again, trust your gut and stay vigilent and tell yourself the truth!

melissa1984
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9/1/2013 11:22    
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I think it is very important to take seriously ALL the responses on this website. I am sorry some folks seem them as crap, that is unfair as several good experiences does not undo the others or undo the pain. The main thing is leaving one culture for another is jolting and esp. during this period of serious unrest. I lived in Luxor which is a far cry from Cairo (in good way for me) but remember the folks in the tourist trade can have a different take on things. As was said earlier any problems you may have will not be dealt with by the embassy and if you get married legally your husband has to agree to your leaving the country. As a lawyer, I can tell you that that should concern you even if others don't get that. Look, we all see ourselves as the exception, the one who gets it, but a total departure from your country and the culture you are leaving seems romantic and like an adventure and sometimes is, but I would sell the family farm betting that the odds are against you.

Another piece of info that I thinks weights heavily into this situation is that a dear childhood friend of mine was second in charge at the American Embassy in Cairo. He has his finger on the pulse more than any of us and he said NO ONE LISTENS TO WARNINGS ABOUT MARRYING THE TOURIST RELATED YOUNG GUYS ESP. IN SOUTHERN EGYPT BUT THE PROBLEMS THERE FOR US ARE WAY BEYOND WHAT WE CAN IMAGINE. I believe him. I believe the women on here who have bravely shared their stories while being told their stories are crap and even Lonely Planet has a warning in their publications.
Go slow, trust your gut and remember that many young Egyptian men are under or unemployed and would love other options. I don't blame them, but charm can take you a long way esp. when the men in our countries often lack it. Again, trust your gut and stay vigilent and tell yourself the truth!

melissa1984
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9/1/2013 11:22    
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I think it is very important to take seriously ALL the responses on this website. I am sorry some folks seem them as crap, that is unfair as several good experiences does not undo the others or undo the pain. The main thing is leaving one culture for another is jolting and esp. during this period of serious unrest. I lived in Luxor which is a far cry from Cairo (in good way for me) but remember the folks in the tourist trade can have a different take on things. As was said earlier any problems you may have will not be dealt with by the embassy and if you get married legally your husband has to agree to your leaving the country. As a lawyer, I can tell you that that should concern you even if others don't get that. Look, we all see ourselves as the exception, the one who gets it, but a total departure from your country and the culture you are leaving seems romantic and like an adventure and sometimes is, but I would sell the family farm betting that the odds are against you.

Another piece of info that I thinks weights heavily into this situation is that a dear childhood friend of mine was second in charge at the American Embassy in Cairo. He has his finger on the pulse more than any of us and he said NO ONE LISTENS TO WARNINGS ABOUT MARRYING THE TOURIST RELATED YOUNG GUYS ESP. IN SOUTHERN EGYPT BUT THE PROBLEMS THERE FOR US ARE WAY BEYOND WHAT WE CAN IMAGINE. I believe him. I believe the women on here who have bravely shared their stories while being told their stories are crap and even Lonely Planet has a warning in their publications.
Go slow, trust your gut and remember that many young Egyptian men are under or unemployed and would love other options. I don't blame them, but charm can take you a long way esp. when the men in our countries often lack it. Again, trust your gut and stay vigilent and tell yourself the truth!

marcynabdou
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9/3/2013 08:09    
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hi people i havent commented in awhile since someone said i should wait til i been married 7 years lol but anyway i been reading all the comments and just amazed and saddened at some of them....i am now back in alex been here for a month and plan on staying til we get thru the visa process since my husband can not find work here or in the gulf is what he preferes to do. he still scared of going to united states for the fear he wont be accepted by my kids and find work right away....i try to reassure him things will be fine and they will :) we have ran into problems with people give us the run around about exact proceures and make us waste money but thats the only problem we have had lol...we are still very much in love his family loves me very much also..i was back in the states for 4 months and we both were miserable and lonely without eachother so we make the choice no matter where we are at least we are together.. i love egypt and if he could find work here we would stay here it dont matter to me i can always go back to states and visit :) in four months it will be a year since we first met thru a friend on facebook none of our feelings have changed he has not changed he treat me like a queen even when i am difficult lol he say im a complainer but i still so cute even when i complain hahahaha...he say he is so lucky well trust me i feel very lucky to have had this man come into my life he would never let anything happen to me...so i am mainly writing to let the people that commented on my comment last time that all is still well and to all the other people that think all egyptian men are the same cuz they are not i found my one in a million or should i say he found me :) on that note god bless and may real love find each and every one of u

marcynabdou
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9/3/2013 08:33    
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lol casualcairo on the mmid virus that is hilarious..but on the other hand i agree with u and to think i thought i was a lil crazy but at least me and my husband got to know eachother alot longer than a week..omg yes i think she is definatley crazy and hes a massuese lol yeah um no is what i am thinking...get to know him alot longer than a week...spend some real time and find out what he is about and so on...like alot of people say go with ur gut trust your instincts not just your heart....good luck it could be true but on the other hand it could not be also sometimes u jus have to take a chance :)

Chelsealk92
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9/3/2013 09:40    
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Sorry for the late reply Melissa I think what I failed to post in my first post is I have no intentions in marrying him until I'm completely comfortable and confident with the idea which I clearly am not at the moment or I wouldn't be on here sharing my story. I also understand that his line of work is not highly respected but I have to stress this is only what he does at the moment he has business and owns spas also. As for having to gain permission to leave the country I don't think e would ever stop me yet another reason why I have to be in complete trust with Him. Even tho he would like to marry next year I know this is not what is going to happen I'm going back in the new year to get more familiar with him his family and life in Egypt. I have a house and things in the uk I can not jus abandon so I know when I go out there I will be coming home but I want to spend a few months getting the grounds right and making myself fully aware of life in Egypt. I'm not saying I'm going to jump on a plane and marry him tomorrow no no no no way! When I go for my 6 month visit then this is when I will know more about him and him and me as a couple. I'm not completely blind to the risks and the insanity of the idea but my gut tells me I gotta go an a least see where life might take me. Put it this way ladies and engagement is well off the cards until I come back to the uk in the summer of next year an see how I feel and see if we work out as well as we hope

Chelsealk92
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9/3/2013 10:07    
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Thank you or sharing your story marcyanabdou and I fully appreciate your point that we had only know each other a week. It's now been a month and we are getting to know more n more about each other and our families an this is why I say I'm gonna go away in 2014 for 6 months and see how we take to life with each other long term I have no intentions of flying there getting married and becoming a house wife no marriage will be happening until the end of 2014 or 2015 I want to be established with life in Egypt before I do any such thing as for u laughing at him being a masseuse I don't find that funny as that is not his only profession but its making money in the tourist trade that gave him the opportunity to own his own businesses, his own home, and cars he is very well established and isn't some young ignorant boy he's 30 an comes from a good family in Alex and my trip in 2014 is all about getting to know him properly and his family too! My gut tells me I should go and see what my life could be like and at least try an like u say get to know what he is about etc. I understand that him working in the tourist industry makes every1 think VISA HUNTER but like your partner he has no desire to leave Egypt or his family he is the man of his family and his mother and sisters are his world he would never leave any of them and I would never ask him too.

melissa1984
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9/3/2013 11:44    
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Casual Cairo, western women do not have the rights that we have in America once you MARRY. You are wrong on that. Also, having children once you marry is dicey to say the least. I am talking here not about the rights YOU have but the rights an American or other would have after marriage. You might want to look at human rights watch and look at some of the files I am working on where women are trying to leave the country with their children or get child support.
Also, might want to check in with the embassies about these issues. Regarding the language barriers. Give me a break. I couldn't anymore learn a language that had a different alphabet than fly to the moon and I am a bright, educated woman. How do you think it feels for an English speaking woman to have her husband translating everything for her. And even if she could learn the language it would take a long time and what is it like before that. As far as the movies go, that is true in many parts of Egypt and a non-issue anyway. I meant it as a metaphor regarding a culture that is so different that the most minor expectations are not met. Can we stretch our wings, YES but one must know that when going into it.
You have been in Cairo a long time, try to remember back. Also, you have long established friendships. That takes a long time for most folks and getting a really good job is very, very hard. I don't mean teaching English, I mean teaching at American University in Cairo.
Also, one must take it into consideration just where one is in Egypt. Living in Luxor or Sharm or Aswan are way different that Cairo and Cairo is HUGE. Unless you come from a metropolis the adjustment is huge. These changes are real and I think perhaps minimized when one has lived in Cairo so long. Cairo becomes the norm which is fine but beyond difficult for most westerners. You are in the minority for sure and I admire your ability to make those changes but still, don't minimize the legal differences for women once married.

Chelsealk92
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9/3/2013 14:07    
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Melissa I truly from the bottom of my heart really am great full for the things tht you have bought to my attention in regards to rights once married etc i really am as I keep saying I don't want to marry immediately no way are these my intentions I would be living in dahab and staying in Alex when we visit his family. His home is in dahab I spent two days there when I was on holiday was very different to the resort area that I had originally gone to stay at in taba and I saw such a small part of Egypt my heart aches to see more. I joined this forum for this exactly to get different opinions on different aspects of living in Egypt. I'm in the mists of setting up my own business here in the uk also so I would not be in Egypt all year round. And I already speak Arabic so the laguage isn't an issue

melissa1984
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9/3/2013 17:00    
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Chelsea.......sounds like you are taking a sensible route. Just watch the taking care of the mom and siblings thing. My
BF had the same issue and they will and do come first. That gets old. How is it that you happen to speak Arabic?
You are right, that is a big plus. Nothing like being talked about when you don't know what is being said.
You are right to go slow. The quick marriage approach in Egypt is not something I understand but it seems to be a very common practice. Keep us posted!

marcynabdou
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9/4/2013 02:04    
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melissa i would jus like to say alot of what u say is not true with all egyptian men...for one family doesnt always come first yes they are very important but with me and my husband he makes sure i know i come first and i have every since we got married and his family put me first to they always want me to feel comfortable.. and i dont really mind my husband translating for me arabic is a very hard language i got a couple words down but i dont think i will ever learn it and thats fine by me :) and what is quik to u in marriage i dont think it really matters if u know what ur doing i have seen plenty of people wait years to get married only to end in divorce and thats in america...yes she should be careful espessially at her age because she very young and has her whole life ahead of her so good luck and jus be cautious that is my advice chelsea :)

Chelsealk92
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9/4/2013 05:10    
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I am trying to be sensible and adventurous all at the same time lol. As for him providing for his family he has already told me that we come first but his family will always be a big part of our life which I admire but he's told me I come first n always will. I speak Arabic as my mother was born in Tunisia and my family came to the uk in the 60s I speak French Arabic and English. My Arabic and French aren't perfect but I understand more than I can say which I think is good lol n no there's nothing worse than being spoken about n u don't understand lol

Chelsealk92
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9/4/2013 05:19    
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Thank u Marcy I do Intend on bring very careful as I know I may seem niaeve but I'm not I'm very wise and consider myself to have good judgement of people. His family are very accepting of me which I think is lovely. I am 21 and he is 30 so I don't see him to be looking for anything to gain from me. He has more than I do and only ever says he wants to take care of me and for us to be one. He worries about me being in England where he can not look after me. All I can say is I'm defiantly not getting married yet lol but I can not wait to go back to Egypt and see Alexandria I hear it is beautiful and I can't wait to visit his beautiful city and beautiful family! His nephews already call me Aunty lol that's his fault tho I'm pretty sure it's a joke lol ill defiantly keep u all posted I'm so pleased I joined the forum while I've received some not do positive comments I've defiantly gained some knowledge and Melissa u say your a solicitor ill get in touch if I need some help lol thanks again ladies

marcynabdou
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9/4/2013 08:39    
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You are very welcome and i wish u all the happiness in the world when i met my my husband its like he came out of nowhere and saved me from alot of pain and lonliness and then i find out i did the same for him he was 33 when we met and i 37 i had a life before him was married had 4 kids and he had never been with another woman he thought he would never get married lol me having a previous life didnt deter him and his family had no problems with it either and he really didnt care if they did at first he didnt want them to meet me cuz he didnt want us to be judged but they said nope and they wanted to meet me and here we are im on my second trip to egypt and life couldnt be better...even when i met his sisters they tell me abdou has changed so much he more happy and i could totally tell from the pics he was posting also every pic he posted had my name attached to it which made me fall more inlove than ever..he is the sweetest man i ever have met and the love he shows me everyday is amazing..time goes by so fast it has almost been a year since i met him and we are in love more each and every day so it can happen with the right man :) and on alexandria it is a beautiful city i love it..some places need to be cleaned up because of the revolution but in due time im sure it will all be back to the way it used to be :)

Chelsealk92
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9/4/2013 08:57    
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Thank you for your kind words and all your advice I can only hope and pray Mostafa and I will be as happily in love as abdou and u. Quick question in regards to ur maridge did you have a religious maridge or just a lawful one. Mostafa tells me as I am not prepared to become Muslim we can have a lawful marriage instead of a religious one as you can not join two faiths so we would pretty much be married with a solicitor is this the case or have I misunderstood my lovely habiby lol. When u go to Egypt how long do u spend there each time x

JessicaRafter
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9/4/2013 11:55    
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A muslim man can marrry any faith of the woman...muslim women can not marry anyone except a muslim man. And you can have a religious ceremony if you like...

melissa1984
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9/4/2013 13:24    
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I am very happy that your year long situation has been good for you. May it stay that way. But your experience is your experience and while it is helpful you can see from the 100 plus entries your situation is the exception and that is great for you. You said you have 4 children but are only 37.....are they grown or with you there in Egypt? How do they like it there?

melissa1984
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9/4/2013 14:14    
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I am very happy that your year long situation has been good for you. May it stay that way. But your experience is your experience and while it is helpful you can see from the 100 plus entries your situation is the exception and that is great for you. You said you have 4 children but are only 37.....are they grown or with you there in Egypt? How do they like it there?

melissa1984
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9/4/2013 14:14    
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I am very happy that your year long situation has been good for you. May it stay that way. But your experience is your experience and while it is helpful you can see from the 100 plus entries your situation is the exception and that is great for you. You said you have 4 children but are only 37.....are they grown or with you there in Egypt? How do they like it there?

JessicaRafter
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9/4/2013 16:22    
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A muslim man can marrry any faith of the woman...muslim women can not marry anyone except a muslim man. And you can have a religious ceremony if you like...

marcynabdou
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9/5/2013 09:06    
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we had our civil marriage here and a celebration with his family after that :) when we go back to america we will have an american style wedding also...the first time i was here i stayed a month and now i have been here a month this time but plan on staying with my husband til he can come back with me or if he gets a job in UAE we might go there its all about starting our life and being together which ever way that pulls us..like i said he kinda scared about life in the states but i tell him trust me u will fit in alot more than i am fitting in here lol

marcynabdou
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9/5/2013 09:14    
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Thank u melissa and yes i realize our story is very rare..i tell my husband everyday he is one and a million espessially after the stories i hear on here and other places...as for my age yes i am 38 now and i do have 4 kids 2 of which i had very young i left home when i was 13 because my parents were alcoholics i should have been more careful in my choices then but i was very young and obviously looking for love in the wrong place.. but as my husband says whats done is done i have 4 beautiful smart kids..my oldest be 23 in december and then 21,16, and 14 :) and no they are not with me my two youngest are with their dad right now and when i return they will return to live with me and my husband :)

melissa1984
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9/5/2013 21:37    
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Oh wow Marcy, how much sweeter then for you to have come from an alcoholic home (as did I) and then to have found a refuge and a personal well of happiness. It sounds like you both have found exactly what you needed and wanted and I hope and pray that your path will continue to be a good one. Will you work? Are there English speaking schools for your kids. Egyptians LOVE kids so they will be doted on as you are. So happy for you. Melissa

marcynabdou
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9/6/2013 09:44    
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thank u melissa yes it has been a long road and also thank you for your kind words :) what i meant is when we return to the states my kids will return to live with us there, and hopefully one day i will return to work as for now i am not able i was in a accident last year and almost lost my life. i am suppose to be having surgery on my knee but i have been putting it off because it will be a year long recovery for that and lets jus say at my kids age they cant be there for me very much due to work and school so i will wait til we get home and i have my husband to care for me in that regard :)

swimswith
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1/12/2014 23:14    
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as of several months ago i was his queen. and recently my trip to him was: "you are stupid" and will you give me 50000usd for my mom and dad
after a long 2 weeks of his boring, abusive behavior; he called tonight to ask when i will transfer the money

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
1/13/2014 07:47    
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If he calls again to ask this again, use these words precisely to answer him.

Fil MISH MISH

It has to do with a very short apricot season in Egypt, but he will understand you are telling him that the answer is WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER.

Good Luck. ;)

melissa1984
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1/13/2014 08:18    
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Thank God you have a life elsewhere, so many are stuck in Egypt basically under house arrest. The culture supports him and using you and treating you badly are common forms of control. Is this guy from Luxor? Tourist places are the worst. Have you kicked him to the curb yet?

melissa1984
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1/13/2014 08:18    
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Thank God you have a life elsewhere, so many are stuck in Egypt basically under house arrest. The culture supports him and using you and treating you badly are common forms of control. Is this guy from Luxor? Tourist places are the worst. Have you kicked him to the curb yet?

kay85
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8/9/2014 15:51    
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hi
I am a girl born and bred in the UK
I am desperately seeking information about marriage papers I signed with an ex Egyptian boyfriend. typical story of we met on a holiday etc to cut a long story short I found out he was seeing at least 1 other person so the relationship ended .. it has been at least 2 years since I had any contact with him and we never lived together. I did sign all the papers and get stamps from embassies in Cairo etc so I am worried this marriage may still be valid even though he said he sorted it. I am in a loving relationship and hope to actually marry this person in the future so I need to know this silly part of my past will not interfere with this. I just want to remove the doubt I have in my mind. I have tried in the past to contact embassies for information but get different info. Can anyone tell me who I need to speak to or how I can be certain these papers are no longer valid.? I have no contact information for the Egyptian.
thanks for your time

melissa1984
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8/12/2014 09:18    
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Don't feel bad. This sting operation is big business and Egyptian men have it down to a fine science. Now about the stamps and embassy involvement. So you got married in Egypt and then went back to England? Where does the Egyptian live because if it is in Egypt he can end the marriage quickly but it would be hard to believe him plus who knows where he is? Did you ever report the marriage on your passport or anywhere else official in England? Yes, the embassies won't help you. Let me know about the reporting out thing and we can go from there. MB

kay85
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8/12/2014 10:34    
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Thank you so much for replying. I don't really know what the reporting out thing is but I didn't do anything else with any documents after leaving Cairo .. I didn't change my name or anything. I had to give in my passport and proof of christening etc when I was there and it took over a week to complete in Cairo. He basically was convinced if he married a European he would be exempt from army service and then able to get a passport . He said he did end it but like you say I don't trust him. I want peace of mind for myself and my partner that I can marry and even holiday in Egypt without any problems. The documents I have are the one in Arabic with out pics and thumb print and an English translated one.
Feel like this all happened a life time ago yet I'm still living with a worry and feel there's no one that can give me a definitive resolution.
Thanks again x

kay85
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8/12/2014 10:51    
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He always lived in Egypt and I in the UK .. I don't think I even went back after the papers were done and I never declared married on anything here that I can recall .. I even went to my local vicar and he tried finding out how legit it was but couldn't find out much either way.

melodymckinley
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8/12/2014 20:12    
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Pardon me, but I thought I would add something here. It seems to me from the information you shared so far, that you did not go through the process of a legal marriage. Such as, filing your marriage with the marriage court, going through the long process that can take many days, going to the Ministry of justice, getting a certified translation lawyer and stamped. If it was not done through a legal marriage court lawyer, a dowry or mahr was not payed, no oath was sworn by either of you, before the judge magistrate in the marriage court, and you mentioned there was no finger or thumb print or passport photos were submitted at the time of your marriage, then it sounds every bit like you did not have a legal marriage. Rather, it sounds like you had what is popularly called an ORFI or URFI marriage. Just barely legal enough to give him permission to have sexual relations with you, but without any of the financial responsibility that goes along with taking care of a real Wife. During the marriage, or after, should it end. My heart goes out to you for this deception that has been done to you. Just be wiser in all your future dealings with anyone, including your new potential intended, however nice he may be. If you found this Egyptian lover (for that is all he truly was under Egyptian family marriage law,) has only offered you an orfi marriage, you can be sure that if he has been deceiving you in one area, such as fidelity, it is likely he also was deceptive in other aspects as well. You are right to question and not trust his words. The tricky business with getting an orfi divorce, is that you may have to go back to the cleric or person that "married" you, and request divorce, and get it in writing. If you have any marriage papers from this orfi marriage, this will help. Orfi marriage is a messy, shady business, because orfi marriage is not a real or legal marriage. It is similar to what is known in most western countries as common law marriage. Without proper documentation and all legal procedures followed through, plus witnesses you can track down, it is very difficult to actually get a "real" divorce, as it was never a "real" marriage. As I mentioned, if you have documentation about your orfi marriage, and you can track down and locate the person who performed the marriage, then you may be able to get further documentation to proof you are not truly married. As embarrassing and expensive as this solution may sound, it may be the only way for you to get complete peace of mind. If you return to Egypt and are to booking a room in a hotel with a new Husband, or rent an apartment or villa, that requires marriage papers, as most of the respectable ones do, and have not been previously divorced, it is punishable by Egyptian law by imprisonment. I advice you not to remarry without being quite sure you are truly divorced from your first husband. I hope you get this worked out and can move on into your happy future, and possibly with someone who truly cares for you. Good Luck to you!

kay85
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8/13/2014 05:16    
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Hi
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I may not have made it clear but what we signed did take a few days and we did go through the ministry of justice etc. I have a copy of the paper with out thumb print and pics. I guess this is a more legal marriage :(
He messaged me out if the blue around 2 years ago saying he had ended it but I don't know how I can be sure. Is there no one that I can call ? No register that will say if the marriage is valid?
My current partner had never been to the pyramids and has said he'd like to at some point in his life but is now worried for me being there. I could contact his sister in law (she is polish) however I really want to avoid him contacting me if possible and I want to keep it as private as I can.

marie222
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8/23/2014 15:15    
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hi becs i read your messages on the forum and just want to ask a few questions. i met an egytian man in sharm who claims he really like me. we talked for about a week in the hotel but he could not talk to me properly as he works there so asked me to meet him outside one night. i said ok but i explained that i didnt want a relationship or anything and that i just wanted to talk. as soon as i met him he took my hand and i was trying to get him to let go but he wouldnt. i actually was shocked as thought that holding hands in public wasnt allowed. then we went across the road and sat outside a bar and had a drink(just water as i didnt want achohol) then he tried kissing me and i thought what on earth is he doing . i said i did not come there for that. he was really sweet and we talked for a bit and then i said i want to go back to my hotel so i did and he went home. thing is i really like him and now im back in uk he has been calling me everyday asking me when im going back, what do you think of this situation?

kay85
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8/23/2014 19:51    
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Obviously just forget it. Say nice to have met you and leave it there. He sounds too forceful anyway, if he were in the uk I doubt you'd bother believe me. X

Irma
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10/14/2014 09:01    
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somebody is sending me private messages ; Johanna .......i wil answer in public......be transparant ....no all Dutch women i KNOW came back, unhappy.....i guess the women who are happy are not writing here. Please tell the happy stories

noturns
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10/20/2014 04:48    
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chelsealk92
I am Christian married to a Egyptian man who is Muslim. There seems to be many answers to each question depending on who is speaking. But to answer your question.your "fiance" is right sort of. You can not have a religious ceremony because you are of different faiths BUT be sure that your civil ceremony is legitimate. Signing a form in a solicitors office is a convenient form of marriage (for the man) but it is not a legal marriage and not accepted when you are required to show proof of marriage in hotels or checkpoints. You can fill out the proper forms at your embassy in Cairo and then they will send you to have the marriage performed. OR you can have a civil wedding in a courthouse
Just a comment on life married to a muslim Egyptian....there are soooooo many differences from how you grew up......so many
Smile
noturns

memomemo
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10/20/2014 08:48    
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hello :) im new here and read all with interes .thank you for sharing your stories and advices ..i want to ask if someone can help me ..i have a very good friend from egypt and i want to help him to move abroad but i cant find good information how to do that and how much will cost ..if someone can give me info i will be very thankful :) thank you in advance :) wish you wonderful new week

Irma
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10/26/2014 07:44    
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it depends where you live Memo

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
10/26/2014 11:56    
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Memo - Put the responsibility on HIM to find out this information. Do NOT do it for him. If he will do his own research and fill out the forms and stand in line at the appropriate Embassy and all of that, then he may be worth helping once he gets there, but take it as a sign that he is lazy and not real bright (that sounds tough, but it's sooooo true) if he won't do the leg work up front to make this happen. Its more to HIS benefit to get there than yours, so make him do the work. PLEASE! You won't regret it if you do..... well hopefully you won't still regret it if you do. :)

Irma
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10/26/2014 13:05    
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wise words; let him do the work !

dancers
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From: Egypt
10/26/2014 15:54    
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All I can say (from my own experience....I am American....he....Egyptian)....is this.....LOVE DON'T PAY THE BILLS!!!!! I was the "ALLOWER" for TOOOOOOOOO LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

marcynabdou
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10/26/2014 19:52    
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Update me and abdou are still together we have a 5 month old now named alexander.abdou got to America one week before he was born and he was born on my birthday god has blessed us so much and I just wanted to share with you guys. He is working as soon as he got his green card and is now looking for bodybuilding sponsorship to pursue his dreams in that. So don't give up on love it is out there..it just is very rare to find it 7000 miles away and it be real hence that's why this thread is here haha..but it can happen look at us March will be 2 years we r married now :) and I have met a couple others it has happened to along the visa journey..so don't give up just be careful no matter where the man comes from lol have a great day friends

memomemo
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11/14/2014 09:36    
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CasualCairo - thanks for replay ..u right and he try too to find a way ...but i want to know something ..when i check UK Embassy web site for visa price i found one price and when he sent questions about this he got other price ..very high ... i know its not only visa but diferent fees and etc but still seems surprisingly big difference...anyway ...just if u know site with more info about this or some other forums send me pls :) thank you again and have a nice weekend :)

marcynabdou
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1/17/2015 21:16    
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So u did get married Chelsea that's awesome how r things me and abdou r doing great we have beautiful son Alexander :)

chellz67
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1/29/2015 18:30    
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hi all:)…i have been reading the posts here and i am a little skeptical…at the least…on having/continuing a relationship with my egyptian bf….just reading some of this stuff makes me cringe…lol…however….i do love this man and have been lucky to have him come into my life….yes….egyptian men…like no other…are very charming…and forthcoming…and appreciative…and doting….unlike any american man or other nationality of man that i have dated/talked to/been with….i do believe they are of a different breed:)….with that have being said….am i naive or just not well educated on how these men operate??….i know i have a close connection with this man..and he doesn't seem shady..and i talk to him everyday on Skype…twice daily…except when we are working...…details will follow if needed to help me with my questions…i am going to egypt to meet him for the first time in person this march….met him last september 2014 online on a dating/networking site…..i went to egypt last year on vacay and loved every minute of my stay…mostly traveling by myself also:)…so i am really looking forward to have another chance to see some more sights when i go this year:)….we have talked seriously about him coming here part time….and me over there part time….just haven't worked out any details as of yet…of course i want to get to know him better in person…and he told his family about me….and i will meet them when i am there:)….any advice from the egypt loving gurus who post on this thread??….it will be greatly appreciated:):)….michelle:)

melissa1984
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1/29/2015 20:48    
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Keep reading. Most women on here have your story. Next comes the marry me NOW thing with them and downward slide to hell. If you think these guys are better than western men, think again. This culture is in the dark ages in how it treats women and it doesn't matter that he will seem like the exception. He won't be. You should be very skeptical about an Egyptian man and to be talking about living there part time before you have met him is delusional. He won't be able to get into the states, EVER, but he will enjoy your western income. So unless this guy went to oxford and majored in women's studies, you just have the same old same old. Don't think you are the exception which is what we all thought and EVERYONE falls in love with Egypt. Keep reading and get a grip, these guys are predators in sheeps clothing and yes they are charming. Sorry, but this is the truth.

dancers
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From: Egypt
1/29/2015 20:51    
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Hi chellz67.......Usually no one really listens anyway and perhaps you won't either!!!! You will do what you want to do and perhaps you have a lesson to learn from this as all experiences..."good and bad" are learning lessons!!!! I love all Egyptian people and LOVE Egypt VERY MUCH and my SPECIAL Egyptian fiance died unexpectedly 2/22/2014 as to which I was devastated and miss him every moment of every day and night!!! I wish you the very best.....Egypt is the "MOTHER OF THE WORL" MABROUK (GOOD LUCK!!!)

marcynabdou
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1/29/2015 21:14    
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Not my husband as we are still together and he is in the states finally it took us 8 months and as soon as he got his green card he started working and is still working and supporting me and our son.. we have a little boy named alex because I got prenatal in alex :) ?...I first posted on here 2 years ago and like I said before not every egyptian is the same and not all of them r in the dark ages haha but that was funny Melissa :)

marcynabdou
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1/29/2015 21:17    
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Lol that was suppose to say pregnant haha love Egypt and I love my egyptian beast ????

chellz67
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1/29/2015 22:15    
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well thanks for all of the comments….negative or otherwise:)…all input is greatly appreciated…and dancer's especially:)…sometimes i feel that if you don't take a chance on love…you may never find it…even if it means making stupid mistakes…lol….i have taken my chances with men before…only to be cheated on and taken for granted…this ain't my first rodeo with that:):P…i am approaching this scenario with caution…not only for the distance factor…but also for the fact that i am never sure of any man…you know that cliche…been hurt before…but i learned throughout my loveless and non-caring last 8 to 10 years of my 18 year marriage….and through health issues and being a cancer survivor:)!!…that life is way too short to spend it being unhappy and alone:(:(….thanks guys:):)

MagnumJoe
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1/30/2015 02:42    
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Well chell,,,

You have to ask yourself one question.

Is he having an early material gain? Like having a working visa in your country?

This is the first sign to get skeptic.

It's a simple as that.

Take care.

MagnumJoe
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1/30/2015 03:05    
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Just a small correction:

Our culture has not been always in the dark ages about treating women.

As i mentioned earlier in this thread (or perhaps another? Can't remember), you western girls, tend to fall for the uneducated, immature, decomposed, insecure, ill-cultured, unstable, social climbing parasite majority of egyptian men.

And it's understandable because this kind of men will do anything to get what they want, even playing with a lady's emotions (which is disgusting), and also because they are truly the definite majority. Maybe like 95%.

And 40 years ago it wasn't the case, because education and means of culture for the majority of the people were still there. But now, no more.

And as i said earlier, too, that you need to weigh a man's worth through his career and background to be able to eliminate bigger probabilities of turning out to be an a-hole.

Do that, and you'll find an exceptional type of egyptian men :)

MCSHANE64
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1/30/2015 08:01    
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it really depends on how old u are and how old he is. they marry virgins. they invite European women to Egypt for sex only. google Egyptian men u will see. I know of a 50yr old british lady that went to egypyt married a 29yr old Egyptian married him islamically but when it turned out time to get married in England he backed out. apparently he already had a wife with one child and another on the way. theres even a facebook page called Egyptian men that have loved u wrong and a show in England on holiday love rats. if he works in the tourism industry that's really bad. and fyi orfi marriages are a shame in their country just legal paper so they can have sex. u cannot stay in a hotel in Egypt together without being married, the ones u meet on the net r usually after 1 of 3 things sex, visa or money or any combination of the three. good luck.

marcynabdou
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1/30/2015 11:31    
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McShane not all are looking for virgens lol I had 4 kids before marrying my husband and having another with him...him and his family had no problems they love me for me and not my past..funny thing is my husband was a virgin at first I was like um no u deserve someone like you..u have waited 33 years but he wouldn't take no for a answer so here we are 2 years later and still in love with a beautiful baby named alex..there r scam artists in every country not just egypt lol.good luck to all of u

melissa1984
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1/30/2015 12:11    
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actually no, the us state dept. and the Egyptian government and all reputable travel books have spoken of Egypt as having the most predatory men on the planet. You are the happy exception.

melissa1984
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1/30/2015 12:30    
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Yes and read down a ways for a really long post by an Egyptian male who explains it all beautifully. But yes, no doubt he will talk marriage and push it and since we aren't used to such charm it is easy to fall for. It is all fakery and predatory behavior. Their families will get involved and push too as they want your money. My Egyptian male friend told me that marrying foreign women is big business in Egypt. Bet the guy has no college degree, is younger and has several email buddies to soak. Again, I get how good it feels and romantic but it is not the real thing.

chellz67
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1/30/2015 13:20    
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Hi marcy:)…i love your posts…they are always so positive in nature:)…might actually give me some hope!!…lol:)…thanks:)…michelle:)…congrats on the new baby!!!

chellz67
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1/30/2015 13:23    
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thanks for your info/input mcshane:)

MCSHANE64
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1/30/2015 14:36    
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AND YOU WOULD BE ONE OF THE FEW LUCKY EXCEPTIONS! GOOGLE EGYPTIAN MEN AND U WILL SEE WHAT I MEAN. EVEN USA GOVERNMENT WARNS ABOUT MARRYING EGYPTIANS

marcynabdou
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1/30/2015 16:16    
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Hi and you are so welcome and thank u he is our Lil star and um for the other ladies comment not all families push or accept a foreign marriage yes I may be the happy exception but I know I'm not the only one I have met others on this journey and I have met disaster stories to haha but they are every where not just Egypt lol good day and to all of u that have found love online or beleive u have beware no matter where the man is from lol damn I wish this site let u post pics haha

Summer96
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1/30/2015 17:30    
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Your posting swings between self-deprecation and helpless infatuation, revealing the conflict between your head and your heart. In a Western democracy, you would be free to act openly on your feelings until they subside. However, your religion and the Egyptian culture and laws would condems this, with possible serious consequences. But marriage? That is a legal, social and cultural transaction - your property becomes his property, and a serious young man often becomes a dogmatic, autocratic, and unsympathetic husband. it is a common trajectory. Once he has the power, ownership and authority of marriage, you and your daughters would become subservient to his dictates and his family, by tradition and law. And he may tire of an older woman in a year or two, and seek another younger wife. If he were a Western- educated, widely traveled, sophisticated younger man, there might be some possibilities for a harmonious long term relationship, but you have MUCH to lose - in status, assets, independence, mobility, and only fleeting passion to gain from this alliance. Remember, passion cools quickly when one's rights and freedom are diminished. Avoid him if you value your independence and assets. Good chemistry is great, but not when the consequences of action are catastrophic. IMHO, you should run away from this as fast as you can. Listen to your head, not your heart. Cry your tears of disappointment, but stay free. You are playing with fire, and with your life.

melissa1984
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1/30/2015 19:43    
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Thank you for your well thought out response. It is so difficult to believe that even after reading this blog that so many could still be falling for this dangerous game. Remember, if you marry an Egyptian in a legal manner, you are his property. You might be older and smarter and more educated but you are not free. You need his permission to leave the country. Are you ready for this? Do you really think that charm will last? It is very difficult to hear this minority of women say there are creeps everywhere. There are, obviously. The point is that in Egypt there is an ancient system that supports systematic oppression of women including the 96% that are victims of genital mutilation. What about that? Is it unpleasant to hear these truths? No these truths are self evident, women are not free here except in a very minority of cases. like you have married a Harvard educated feminist psychologist. Seriously women, great if you are the rare exception. These gender rules are way bigger than you and if you are oblivious enough to ignore this social dynamic, well don't go crying to your embassy. They have way more important things than to save you from your own self will run riot.

melissa1984
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1/30/2015 19:56    
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Congrats on being a cancer survivor. Me too! Having said that, I get the need for love and enthusiasm and even risk. Just remember there are things way worse than being alone, like being in a relationship with a predator. A beautiful predator, a charming predator, but still......You get it. Just don't get rushed into marriage, don 't even think marriage, think Egypt is a great place to heal and have adventures. You will be surrounded though as that is the nature of the beast and don't consider any of these comments to be negative, because more than likely, they are the God's awful truth. Still you can have fun as long as you arm yourself with your radar and the wisdom you are hearing.

marcynabdou
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1/30/2015 20:09    
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Lol some people think that but it is not true I left Egypt twice and it wasn't up to my husband lol he is actually more educated then I am he got a bachelor's in mechanical engineering and from what I saw with his family the women do whatever they want it is not like that with everyone..my husband has 6 sisters and they go and do whatever they want have Facebook etc and yes I agree genital mutilation is discusting and horrible thing to do to women but Egypt is not the only place that happens and now they are against it from what my husband has told me and from what I have read it doesn't happen anymore mainstream anyway and to tell u the truth Egypt ain't that ancient anymore I lived there for 5 months and some systems are way behind but most people are coming into this day and age especially the younsters

MCSHANE64
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1/30/2015 20:24    
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I WAS JUST CURIOUS MARCY HOW MANY YEARS AGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND?

chellz67
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1/30/2015 22:51    
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thanks melissa for your words of wisdom:)…and congrats on winning your battle with cancer:)….nothing like a renewed outlook and spirit and a new lease on life:)….points you made are well taken….and i will definitely be cautious and smart about things:)

MagnumJoe
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1/31/2015 00:02    
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Melissa,

I am with you on your description, but not on the ratios. (Not talking about FGM though, the number you've stated is somewhat true.)

And this proves what i have said earlier: that you didn't get exposed to a certain class of people, a specific community, where nothing of this happens, and where you don't need to be a feminist to treat your girl fair.

And this community is a big one: you just need one or two persons and then you will know dozens in an astounding domino effect.

It may not be easy to find these people, but sure as hell not impossible.

melissa1984
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1/31/2015 18:00    
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You are most welcome. Main things to remember, not to discuss marriage, not to pay for anything except your own wants and needs, if the age difference is large that is a sure sign of the sting and just enjoy yourself without his urging that there be a future. Good luck and I get the need for some serious flirting and courting but the general track record of these rascals no matter how endearing is abysmal. Keep us posted!

marcynabdou
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1/31/2015 20:55    
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We are 4 years apart I'm 39 he is 35 and I joined this forum right before I went to Egypt to marry haha I never posted until after..trust me I read I wasn't stupid as all my friends thought and even his family thought we were crazy and really didn't even know if would show but I swear 3 weeks after we met on Facebook I knew he was the one strange I know but I'm telling u the truth I was married to a man from Yemen we met when we were young he was already citezen and he ended up cheating on me after a few years and then in the end his family made him go marry his cousin haha try to live that life lmao thank god I moved on after 20 years and it is only because of my husband I beleive in love again :)

MagnumJoe
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2/1/2015 05:23    
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Melissa1984,

Why are you not replying to my posts?

I am just trying to give you another perspective, or actually show you a completely different sector of egyptian community.

marcynabdou
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2/1/2015 11:17    
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Probably cuz she don't want to hear it lol some people just have a one track mind lol I think it's really sad just because some egyptian men r scammers they think they all are...we are all people in the end and some just are not good has nothing to do with where people r from lol...God bless Egypt and it's people even the scammers hahahahahaha

MagnumJoe
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2/1/2015 12:09    
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Well marcy, to be honest, the great majority are truly scammers. But genuine people are not rare either: they're just a minority.

And like i said earlier on this thread, and in another thread, you girls tend to have a problem to know if a guy is good or bad, because of cultural differences.

It's ok to admit that, melissa, you know?

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
2/2/2015 04:48    
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Magnum Joe....the problem is that the non scammers are usually NOT necessarily attracted to foreign women. They are looking at women in their own social-economic class which is the norm in Egypt. The women that are defending the men (that might or might not be scammers) are probably women that have ONE Egyptian man that they've ever dated and really are making judgements because of that one experience. If it turns out to be a good experience I guess they can consider themselves lucky (the same as any one that manages to have a long successul marriage anywhere should).

Recently CAIRO SCENE published this. You all should read it. Yes it is written tongue in cheek, but most of the women I know that have read it that live in Egypt and have dated more than ONE Egyptian man agree that 90% of the men here have over 50% of the traits listed. How many are forgiveable or are you able to overlook for a long term relationship? And this is from the so called NORMAL guys, not even necessarily the ones that are scamming foreigners on the Internet.

http://www.cairoscene.com/ViewArticle.aspx?AId=1901-Dating-Men-Vs-Egyptian-Men

Enjoy.

CasualCairo
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From: Egypt
2/2/2015 04:53    
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Also, I think we need to qualify that your statement "the great majority are truly scammers", shoud read, "the great majority that are hooking up with foreigners via the Internet are truly scammers", that lets the real VAST majority that have nothing to do with meeting women on the Internet off the hook....their major faults are still listed in that article. ;)

melissa1984
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2/2/2015 13:22    
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Glad you have a good man. Regarding the genital mutilation it is at 96 percent STILL but it is against the law. You don't need to do the LOL thing. I appreciate your comments and I think you need to know that NO ONE on here is saying every Egyptian male is a piece of work. So, I think we all know that and you don't need to defend what we all know, Muslim countries have a different track record with women, period. Numbers don't lie and great that your experience is different. It is the minority though because most western women are used to a different life. Also, life in Cairo and Alexandria is way different than in southern Egypt which is mostly a very difficult place for western women to live. I think it is important to know both that some women fit well into this culture and the scamming thing is real and certainly way worse than say where I live, in Savannah, Ga. Obviously I don't know everyone but I don't know of blatant cases though I am sure they are out there. Still numbers don't lie!

lionking2013
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2/2/2015 18:05    
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Melissa1984, please just SHUT UP!!! We already know about your damn bad experience with the Egyptian guy from Aswan 10,000 years ago!! So, you know it ALL about Egyptians!!! You are one of those who think that they know, and don't know that they don't know. In other words, the ignorant.

marcynabdou
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2/2/2015 19:24    
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Damn it lionking I couldn't have said it better bahahahaha..she must have got burned bad to crucify almost every egyptian man in this way.. omg and this is why I LOL melissa haha people find love all over the world and most r not scams I agree if the man is much younger than the woman look out but that's anywhere hello? men in America looking for a sugar mama all the time haha maybe u should look here LOL

MagnumJoe
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2/2/2015 19:28    
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Although i disagreed with melissa on some small details, but that is rude and immature.

Way to go, guys, way to go.

marcynabdou
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2/3/2015 04:27    
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Hey magnum chill bro lmao this is a public forum is it not? maybe u n melissa need to hook up jk jk LOL not rude just saying how we feel :)

MagnumJoe
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2/3/2015 05:00    
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Well at some point i felt like you, but i conveyed my point of view without telling her to shutup nor describing her as ignorant. Nor even seconding on it.

Cheers.

melissa1984
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2/3/2015 05:02    
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Actually some of the most civilized, well thought out and articulate info has come from several people including
Magnum Joe. Perhaps he and I both think that telling someone to shut up has no place on this or any forum. And I am thinking that a man who actually lives in Egypt has more to say than a man who hasn't lived in Egypt for 40 years but definitely is the expert. Just saying where I am getting some actual information and intelligent commentary. No one is
saying your experience isn't well worth sharing, it is just
that lots of others have had or are having entirely different experiences. I appreciate that your time in Egypt and your husband have worked out swimmingly. Sounds good decisions for you. If you read the other 200 entries other people as you say in an open forum need to and are expressing what has happened to them. This info is amazing helpful and may well save some people major heartache and loss of funds.
Again, this takes nothing from you. May your life continue to be full of love and happiness.

scooby69
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2/15/2015 05:57    
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I've just read this novel which bizarrely is all about a relationship between and Western Woman and an Egyptian man. It's set in Luxor and It's a very funny and touching read but it also tells you a lot about many of the situations people are discussing on here. This is a link to it for your Kindles: http://tinyurl.com/tvstreet

vesa15
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3/2/2015 11:39    
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yazz1972 - I was curious to hear your news...

You in Alex? Or your bf passed the language test and you are living happily together here...

Jo999
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3/9/2015 15:26    
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I am curious too, how did your story go Yazz?

I am worried that it was one of those bad endings, like mine. My EG boy wasn't bad, wasn't a scammer, but he was simply too weak. Could not go against his backward-thinking family. So he chose between me and his family: the family won. I know he was not after my money, nor visa, we really fell in love. In the beginning it was a little bit about the opportunity he saw for himself attached to a girl he really fancied and was attracted to, I won't lie, I felt it, I saw it, I heard it. But this changed very quickly, as we fell in love even deeper. All was wasted, as he was too immature and too weak, and, I suppose, more realistic than me. I think fate took good care of me by not letting him marry me. Cultural differences alone, but especially combined with religious differences cause a lot of pain. Relationship is possible, but I cannot believe that it would be easy; not only not easy, but simply painful. In such relationships the person who loves more will end up losing themselves more and more each year. My boy loved me deeply, but not deep enough. My boy was generous, but somehow very selfish at the same time. My boy loved me, but loved himself more. And the sad story is that I still love him, whilst waiting for him to get married to Egyptian girl. I am getting stronger and moving on. Perhaps anger helps me with this. Sadly, I will ask myself forever, "what if". Shame I will have to live my life with this question at the back of my head and inside my heart, but at the same time I know that I will be OK, I will heal and move on. Shame that when (not if, when) he is back, it will be too late - and I already cry over that moment. Good luck to all of us with broken hearts and those of you who can avoid our mistakes, stay safe.

On another note, please, no one on this forum is trying to be nasty and generalise. It only usually takes one bad experience or one Egyptian man to open our eyes and see other people for who they are. We try to share our experience, so that those women who can see similar patterns in their new relationships can perhaps open their eyes and think. That is all. There is no need to call names and swear and then use an excuse that it is a forum, so you can say anything - you can say anything you want and us, other people can consider you rude and a waste of time.

melissa1984
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3/9/2015 18:43    
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Thanks Jo for your comments about your relationship experience. I believe you will eventually feel like you dodged a bullet while still being glad for having had the experience. Yes those cultural divides are tough and love can be strained beyond the breaking point. Still good memories and remembered loves fill the pages of our own personal story and I appreciate your sharing an important chapter in your own story.

scooby69
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3/10/2015 11:39    
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Is anyone on this forum willing to speak to a journalist from the Daily Mail who is writing a piece about marriages between Egyptians and English women? Please reply if you are and I will put you in touch. The lady is very nice and interested in this whole subject.

marcynabdou
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3/10/2015 12:44    
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I'm very interested :) please put her in touch with me thx

AnotherSadStory
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3/19/2015 18:15    
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Hi everyone,

I'm Australian met my Egyptian husband on the net 2 years ago. After a week of chatting he told me that he has found what he was looking for and closed his account and asked me to close mine which I did.

We got married a few months ago. I'm a very good looking young woman, but 10 years older than him and have a child from the previous marriage. I paid for his visa to come to Australia, paid for his flight ticket, for the wedding and honeymoon and also sent him about a thousand dollars to Egypt because he told me that he owes that money at work (he was working in a big private school). Was very unusual situation for me, but what wouldn't you do for Love?

Yeah.. I know looks like an obvious scam at this point. However, there are a few more thing to add.

He was Always available for me day and night and called me 3 times a day. He was even watching me sleeping on Skype for hours.. this is how much he loved me (I thought). We met in person in Malaysia 2 months after meeting online and it was the most beautiful time of my life. He made me feel like I'm a little girl or a princess. He was extremely caring, charming, intelligent, funny and very handsome of course. We shared all the expenses and he paid for his flight tickets. So I was feeling pretty good with it. The only problem we had on the last day he asked me to tell him about my previous relationships and I told him Everything about my past! I trusted him so much and hoped he will understand, but he was really sad and angry and was going to split up with me. I begged him to stay... and we decided to get married to be together.

After we went back home and applied for Australian visa he was torturing me with millions of questions about my exes for the next few months. He couldn't and still can't accept that part of my life and some of my stories even though I explained many times how and why it happened to me.

While waiting for the visa I went to Egypt and met his mother and brothers and some of his friends. They all treated me really well and I was feeling like a part of his family. I visited his work place too. He rented a beautiful apartment for us in the best suburb of Egypt even though it was really hard for him financially and also hired a taxi for all our trips.

One of his American friends told me then that he is a very good guy, very generous and kind, but he is jealous like all Egyptians and told me to be careful. I said yes I know what you are talking about, but apparently I didn't.

Since he arrived to Australia we have been having arguments almost every day and the main reason for that - he doesn't trust me and yeah.. I don't trust him 100% either. To make it clear I spend all my free time with him and my child and never go anywhere alone except for work, but he always reminds me of my previous relationships even though I never gave him a single reason to doubt me. Furthermore, I didn't hide or surprised him with anything since we met, but I can't tell the same about him.

I was really disappointed to know that his relatives still don't know why and how he migrated to Australia, for them he is here just for work. Up until now there are only a few people who know that he is actually married. He lies his mother about being married to a woman with a child. Told me that if we have a child I can't go with him to Egypt to visit his family because he doesn't want them to meet me, they can notice that I'm older and it's shameful for him. Doesn't want to get married in the Church. Also he told me that he will probably have a child from a surrogate mother, so it will be only his child and that he doesn't want to have kids with me.
All this stuff was completely new for me.

I can never comment about his behaviour and actions because it always ends up with blaming me for my past, humiliation and him trying to leave me.

However, when we are not fighting, he is very romantic, affectionate and caring. He is genuinely worried and so helpful when I'm sick. Often he picks me up in his arms and carries me around and hugs me every day for 10 minutes before we go to work. He kisses me at nights while I'm asleep trying not to wake me up. When I wanted to sell my wedding dress he said it's really important for him to keep it because he wants me to wear it in 20 years anniversary and "bought" it from me. He also does all the house work without me asking him. My child likes him, even though he is very strict with him. My husband got a good stable job in Australia pretty quickly, shares all the expanses with me, buys gifts for me from time to time, but also sends a good amount of money on regularly basis to his family in Egypt. Recently, he started saving some cache money at home and was trying to hide it from me.

Life with him now is more like going from heaven to hell and back every week. I'm feeling so tired and exhausted emotionally.

I would really appreciate if someone could just help me to understand what's going on and what is on his mind?

MagnumJoe
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3/19/2015 19:16    
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The only striking thing is him wanting to hire surrogate mother. That is genuinely weird.

But nonetheless, it is a common incident in egypt that foreigner women, after begetting a child from an egyptian man, flee with the kid and make restriction orders towards him in her country. The reason for that to happen is completely ambiguous to me. It even happened to my father's cousin. He was a veteran egineer in schlumberger, highly educated and speaks 5 languages, he has none of the cultural traditional qwirks, and his danish wife vanished with his one year kid. The next day she sent him an email telling him that she did it because she wants to raise her kid alone without any other influences.

Weird i know, but that's a common scene.

Other than that, all of what you said is just him being an immature and insecure typical egyptian man.

He is having a deep conflict of cultures inside of him right now, and that's how it is manifesting. It will take time.

How old is he?

MagnumJoe
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3/19/2015 19:17    
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The only striking thing is him wanting to hire surrogate mother. That is genuinely weird.

But nonetheless, it is a common incident in egypt that foreigner women, after begetting a child from an egyptian man, flee with the kid and make restriction orders towards him in her country. The reason for that to happen is completely ambiguous to me. It even happened to my father's cousin. He was a veteran egineer in schlumberger, highly educated and speaks 5 languages, he has none of the cultural traditional qwirks, and his danish wife vanished with his one year kid. The next day she sent him an email telling him that she did it because she wants to raise her kid alone without any other influences.

Weird i know, but that's a common scene.

Other than that, all of what you said is just him being an immature and insecure typical egyptian man.

He is having a deep conflict of cultures inside of him right now, and that's how it is manifesting. It will take time.

How old is he?

AnotherSadStory
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3/19/2015 20:07    
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Thanks MagnumJoe! Didn't expect I'll get a response so quickly. :)

Yes that's exactly how he explained it to me about hiring surrogate mother. He simply doesn't want me to have any rights for the child so he can do whatever he wants with him.

Recently he told me he is thinking about having a vasectomy because he doesn't like kids and not planning to have any. I can see how he is with my child - completely not interested and happy when the child is not at home..

He is 24 and I understand he has his own fears and worries, but it doesn't make feel better. Especially when I ask him 'why are you with me' and he has nothing to answer. I know that he is physically very attracted to me and that is probably it.

I hope our relationship will get better at some point, but the thought that he is just using me to get the passport is terrifying...

melissa1984
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3/19/2015 21:39    
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Wow, this story is so sad and honestly it only seems to be getting worse. Do you realize u are being emotionally abused? This merry go round is the slow and tedious journey to your own personal hell. First of all, your poor kid watching all of this. Why would you allow that? Kids are sensitive and believe me they know what is going on around them, If I was your first husband and understood just how unhealthy and abusive this relationship is I would be going for custody. Also how degrading this man is to basically say you have been married before and therefore have some kind of stigma. Thirdly, you aren't good enough for his family? Spare me, how about you are not taking care of yourself or your kid by allowing this man to degrade you. He will NOT change, this situation will continue to go downhill and you are wasting your time being treated like crap. This is what abuse looks like: You never know how you are gonna be treated, well one moment and horrible the next. And once you stay and put up with this it is much harder to get out because this becomes your new normal. Let him go to Egypt have his kid with the wife his parents have picked for him and then get another address. Be brave, cut the chord and just remember there are bridges that are just too far. You can do it, I know you can. Then go volunteer at a woman's shelter or get a really good therapist and soon you will see just how close you got to losing all shreds of self esteem. Remember these guys do the romance part beautifully, the aftermath is frequently a nightmare except you don't get to wake up. You know what you need to do, just don't allow yourself any more heartache than you have already suffered. Life is so short and you deserve much, much better but only you can make that happen.

melissa1984
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3/19/2015 21:44    
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hi, my message in response to the Austrailian woman is up a few. Something is wrong with my
computer or the website. Hope you get this.

AnotherSadStory
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3/20/2015 00:13    
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Thanks so much melissa1984!
Well.. this is what I expected to get as a response because it is logical. So I'm not surprised you are telling me to run away and I understand it would be the best thing to do for everyone (including my husband because he is suffering too). My child doesn't see us arguing (probably can hear I'm not sure), but he does notice that his mum never smiles any more.

I am very depressed (even started having suicidal thoughts, but thanks God I have a child .. so it's not an option) and I have no one to talk to about my personal life. All my friends are happily married for years and would not understand the hell I live in and the most important why I did it to myself.

Gosh.. I thought he is perfect! Smart, funny, confident, well educated, hard working, has similar interests and goals, likes kids, wants to have kids and the most important I was so sure he loves me! Almost everything has gone from the list except for his education and work probably. I fell in love so quickly.. too quickly :(

Jo999
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3/20/2015 05:38    
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This is a really sad story indeed. My problem is that I still love my Egyptian ex and the thought of him coming back to my life scares me, for two reasons - I am scared that I love him too much and will allow him into my normal life and, of course, I am scared of him abusing me in a similar manner described in those messages. I really don't understand what is it with Egyptian culture and bringing up. Yes, I know, not all people are like this, but let's face it, what we consider normal applies to an absolute minority of Egyptian man. Even my man who seemed so sweet, caring and all that other romantic Egyptian rubbish - rubbish, because it is a big lie - even I can see that my sweet boy is just a boy, whereas he should be a man, because he is already 31. He does not have to worry about anything, he is poor, has nothing to lose. If he is sick or loses his job, all he has to do is go back home and do nothing in there, which he already did in the past. When he has a wife, all he has to do is to impregnate her, have some fun and sex for a few days and then go back to work for a few weeks whilst the family feed the wife and take care of her and he does nothing. Even though my sweet boy seems so good, I can see he is possessive, jealous and very selfish. And it really seems to me that most Egyptian man are like that and I do not know still how there are comments from other people who are upset that we are generalising - if there is only 5 % of different Egyptian man, then we are allowed to generalise, and I fear 5% is and overstatement. I think the economy in that country is purely what they created for themselves and perhaps one day that country ceases to exist. All they can do is to say in'shaallah it will happened, but their lazy arses do nothing to make good things happen. They point their hands to God and hope that God will sort the mess out for them. And then they laugh, "this is the Egyptian way". Shame on them!!!

scooby69
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3/20/2015 08:44    
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Hi Jo,
I am currently writing a piece for the Daily Mail on the subject and English women and Egyptian men and I wondered if you could find the time to talk to me by phone?
Maureen

melissa1984
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3/20/2015 10:31    
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I have no idea as to why you would put up with this. You can do better and God knows being without a partner would be better than this, Your son doesn't need this guy either and for his sake, run don't walk. You know the truth, just give up the dream and go with the truth. Hitch hike if you have too (kidding), but the point is, it will NOT get better.

MagnumJoe
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3/20/2015 14:53    
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You are welcome :)

He simply doesn't know who he is, and got you tangled in his psychological jungle.

All of the weird things he is saying are just reactions that have no basis inside of him. He probably doesn't have a code in his life to work by, and he doesn't even know it yet that he hasn't.

Most of fragile, flimsy personalities, when given freedom, and are shown the world, start to ask themselves all the big questions at once.

The problem is that they are seldom clear mental ones. They are usually just vague feelings that they can not identify or formulate. Hence, when they have interogatory feelings, they immdeiately feel lost! And being lost will get them trying to identify their being. And in this process, ideas will pop up in their minds as if they are solutions to the fears and feelings of loss they have.

This is classic immaturity. He just doesn't know what he really wants out of life? You? Your kid? His future kids? And he is having all kinds of fear hanging inside his mind infusing all the feelings of loss more, and pressuring him to find answers, whereas the true answer lies in knowing oneself, not the outside world.

No one has to put up with all of that. It's your call.

Jo999

As much as what you've written is painful, it's true. But you hoping our country to cease existing is not nice, though.

And to add up, you were absolutely right about that percentage.

What is happening in Egypt, is not about culture as much it's about abuse.

The social and economic systems of most classes are abusive because of our "beloved" military dictatorship which instilled corruption long time ago.

Unfortunately these systems create a culture of slaves and crowd collective behaviour. By years, it got mixed with egyptian culture.

The common pattern that you will see is mistrust, to the point of taking all cautionary steps against close people, trying to please any superior entity, not showing what one thinks, being super manipulative, feeling irrationally possessive in general for feelings of loss (like slaves when they have any scraps), and the list goes on.

These things, believe it or not, became the norm of dealings in Egypt! You'll very much rarely find someone dealing to directly without any loops or mind games in egypt. Everyone is afraid of something at any time, to the point of creating their own demons, and everyone is selfish as a mean of survival in this slave community to try to realize the highest gain.

Now once a person is out of all this, believe me, they will search for their demons, and try to feel secure through material gain, done manipulatively.

That's why that aussie girl's husband, believe it or not, is feeling insecure because of the LACK of these things in the new community! So he keeps asking himself questions about his past and his identity and what's right and wrong? Very deep exestential questions!

Now unless an egyptian guy was outside the system in the first place, he will very much be like that.

And if he is like that, he can't be called educated. Education is a long story in Egypt.

Ask melissa about education :)

And melissa

First of all, hi :D How are you?

Second of all, how did your thing go?

Jo999
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3/20/2015 16:35    
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Magnum Joe, you are right, I apologise, because saying that I wish that Egypt ceases to exist was really insulting and insensitive, my apologies even if it is for the sake of the < 5% like you. My feelings are still very raw and I said it out of pain.
I have to say, my recent experience with my Egyptian boy changed my point of view on many things. My Egyptian ex and his family think of themselves as very good Muslims, but in fact it is my experience with them that made me hate Islam. Yes, strong words, I am sorry, but this is what I feel at the moment. The Egyptian people that I met think of themselves to be better than other people and definitely better than Christian. I had always thought that there is no better or worse religion, I believe that we all believe in the same God, we just find different ways to get to him. Unfortunately, Egyptian people taught me that they are not as open-minded. They scare me, because so many of them forget that religion is a path that should help them to be good and to get to God - instead of believing in God, they believe in the religion itself.
I am not writing all this out of cultural shock. Yes, I am Christian, but I was in a relationship with an Arab Muslim for 10 years prior to my “Egyptian experience”. All those years I stayed tolerant and open-minded and non-racist. My Egyptian experience (not only the boy, but his friends and family and other Egyptian people I met there) made me hate their religion and, in fact, hate the whole nation. Very bad of me, I know. It is also not because of the last few months of pain, it has been three years of a long painful story details of which I don’t have the strength to list. So, even though it all sounds harsh, believe me, I find myself having the right to voice my feelings and thoughts, as my conclusions are not rushed.

For the Australian lady – I agree with Melissa, you should run and run fast. It is so insulting to say he does not want your child and he wants it with someone else. It is in fact – in my eyes – a sign of lack of love. I personally do not like children and do not want to have any, but when I am really in love, I feel that I want to have a child with the man I love. He abuses you on a daily basis and you said it yourself – you are unhappy and don’t smile anymore. Unfortunately, love does not conquer all.

Jo999
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3/20/2015 18:29    
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Magnum Joe, you are right, I apologise, because saying that I wish that Egypt ceases to exist was really insulting and insensitive, my apologies even if it is for the sake of the < 5% like you. My feelings are still very raw and I said it out of pain.
I have to say, my recent experience with my Egyptian boy changed my point of view on many things. My Egyptian ex and his family think of themselves as very good Muslims, but in fact it is my experience with them that made me hate Islam. Yes, strong words, I am sorry, but this is what I feel at the moment. The Egyptian people that I met think of themselves to be better than other people and definitely better than Christian. I had always thought that there is no better or worse religion, I believe that we all believe in the same God, we just find different ways to get to him. Unfortunately, Egyptian people taught me that they are not as open-minded. They scare me, because so many of them forget that religion is a path that should help them to be good and to get to God - instead of believing in God, they believe in the religion itself.
I am not writing all this out of cultural shock. Yes, I am Christian, but I was in a relationship with an Arab Muslim for 10 years prior to my “Egyptian experience”. All those years I stayed tolerant and open-minded and non-racist. My Egyptian experience (not only the boy, but his friends and family and other Egyptian people I met there) made me hate their religion and, in fact, hate the whole nation. Very bad of me, I know. It is also not because of the last few months of pain, it has been three years of a long painful story details of which I don’t have the strength to list. So, even though it all sounds harsh, believe me, I find myself having the right to voice my feelings and thoughts, as my conclusions are not rushed.

For the Australian lady – I agree with Melissa, you should run and run fast. It is so insulting to say he does not want your child and he wants it with someone else. It is in fact – in my eyes – a sign of lack of love. I personally do not like children and do not want to have any, but when I am really in love, I feel that I want to have a child with the man I love. He abuses you on a daily basis and you said it yourself – you are unhappy and don’t smile anymore. Unfortunately, love does not conquer all.

Jo999
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3/20/2015 19:30    
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Magnum Joe, thank you for your insightful comments. I never thought of the reasons for this behaviour of Egyptian men so I learnt a lot from your message. In a way I think I was hoping you would say that I was completely wrong, because I still want to hope that maybe there is a chance for me and my Egyptian boy. Perhaps I hoped he was not one of those other men – but how foolish of me to say that. The fact that I have been reading the above messages for the last two years and the fact that now I am even replying – I think it is clear to me that my boy is not the educated man that I wish for, he is one of the boys who hasn’t seen anything else but a strict and backward thinking from his family and everyone around him.

MagnumJoe
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3/20/2015 20:31    
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I am sorry to hear your story really. Like i have said before in one of my posts, it's heart aching to see this happen.

And again, foreigner girls don't have the tools to measure a guy's worth in Egypt. The tools are different than in any other part of the world.

I think you should be, or at least try to be, strong enough to not get the disease of prejudgment. That's a problem with ill cultured people who are too afraid of the unknown. I wouldn't like that because of one experience you judge an ideology and a whole nation, even if the minority is sane.

Just stay neutral for your own mental health's sake. Hate is useless and pointless and will sooner or later cloud your judgment towards people or entities that doesn't deserve such treatment because of others' mistakes.

I know it's hard, and that some people don't have the ability to split their bias and be objective, but at least you have to try. Or you want to be like them? Because once you believe some group of people are different, you will act differently towards them, so you become diseased just like they are: believing to be the best.

"There is no preference for Arabs over non-Arabs, nor for non-Arabs over Arabs, neither is there preference for white people over black people, nor for black people over white people except with piety."

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of God is the most pious of you."

Apparently they didn't do their homework. So don't let them get to you, and stay composed, let the rage out. Relax and namaste :)

MagnumJoe
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3/20/2015 20:32    
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I am sorry to hear your story really. Like i have said before in one of my posts, it's heart aching to see this happen.

And again, foreigner girls don't have the tools to measure a guy's worth in Egypt. The tools are different than in any other part of the world.

I think you should be, or at least try to be, strong enough to not get the disease of prejudgment. That's a problem with ill cultured people who are too afraid of the unknown. I wouldn't like that because of one experience you judge an ideology and a whole nation, even if the minority is sane.

Just stay neutral for your own mental health's sake. Hate is useless and pointless and will sooner or later cloud your judgment towards people or entities that doesn't deserve such treatment because of others' mistakes.

I know it's hard, and that some people don't have the ability to split their bias and be objective, but at least you have to try. Or you want to be like them? Because once you believe some group of people are different, you will act differently towards them, so you become diseased just like they are: believing to be the best.

"There is no preference for Arabs over non-Arabs, nor for non-Arabs over Arabs, neither is there preference for white people over black people, nor for black people over white people except with piety."

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of God is the most pious of you."

Apparently they didn't do their homework. So don't let them get to you, and stay composed, let the rage out. Relax and namaste :)

MagnumJoe
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3/20/2015 20:39    
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I am always thrilled that my messages are informative. Thanks for your appreciation.

And yes... i believe he has been in the "system". It's not about being strict as much as it being twisted. There are very much open minded people who are still immature, and there are very strict people who matured. We have all shapes and sizes :) lol. It's all political and economic that in turn affected people socially. Very long story... i posted it a while back. Read my other messages on the forum and you will find it, if you like.

melissa1984
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3/20/2015 23:02    
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Yes, I would say that when Jo wrote a really long and powerful piece some months back it was the first time I really got what was going on in Egypt and it just kind of fell into place. My eyes opened wide and I would add that those guys in the tourist areas especially have learned how to be oh so charming. I mean a charming like I have not seen before. So if you haven't go back to Joe's first entry and it will blow you away.

Jo999
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3/21/2015 12:12    
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You are right again, MagnumJoe :) I know anger and hatred consume my energy and won't bring any peace or anything good into my life. I hope it is a temporary state of my mind, as I am truly on crossroads, almost moving on but then being dragged back by my feelings. It is a shame that my experience with Egyptian made me a worse person, the boy brought the worst in me, but somehow at the same time the love between us was real and strong. It is all wasted; such a shame, because such love and connection is not easy to find; we had a gift and we wasted it. Well, he wasted it. Anyhow, thank you for your replies and taking time reading my posts. Good luck to us all.

Noor44
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3/30/2015 13:21    
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Hi Jo999, my story is the same as yours except I did marry my Egyptian and we were together 5 years. We got engaged after 6 months and at this point he told me that his family would never accept me so I would need to be a secret from them and we could never meet. His said it was his parents and uncles, in time once his parents were dead, I would meet his brothers. I did meet some of his friends. For 4 years we managed this double life and we were fine but on each trip he made to his parents the pressure built. As they didn't know he was married to me they kept on pressuring him to have an arranged marriage. After 4 years of marriage and 5 years together he eventually caved in when they gave him an ultimatum: agree to the marriage they gad planned for him or they would disown him. I'm so devastated and heartbroken. He just left our home and cut ties with me. Every now and then he keeps contact as he doesn't want to let go really but has no choice. Since then our relationship has deteriorated as he has started speaking to me in a bad way as he is stressed and I accused him of just using me as marriage is for life and he assured me that he would never choose them over me. And he's now started acting very cold and shady, said some very mean things and disrespected me: excusing it all on the fact he said I've insulted him by saying he used me. So in short all the nice memories of our marriage are now ruined and I've lost the love of my life. They will always choose their families Jo that's the sad part and I knew that all along: he just spent so long trying to convince me otherwise. You had a very lucky escape Jo as I now have the pain and hassle of divorce to contend with along with my broken heart. I enjoyed your post as it showed maturity and balance, like you say they are a product of a warped upbringing.

Jo999
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3/31/2015 19:36    
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Noor, your story is really sad, so many of sad stories on this forum :( I am really sorry to hear that now you have to go through the divorce. Did you have any children? Did he live with you in the UK?

My ex's parents knew about me; in the first month after he asked them for permission for us to marry they actually agreed. Unfortunately, soon after that my boy's mum died and his father completely changed his mind, also influenced by other members of his family (yes, a lot of uncles in there). My ex said he tried to convince them otherwise, but I really don't think he tried very hard. Noor, you say that your husband is in contact with you, because he finds it hard to let go but has no choice. The sad reality is that as a human being and as a man he actually has a choice... and he cowardly chooses them over you. Mine did the same, chose his family and also could not let go of me for 2 years after the "official" break up. By doing this he wrecked my life and I allowed him to do this to me, because I loved him and missed him and hoped he would grow up and, in fact, any form of contact was what I thought I needed. I hope that you will be able to move on from this faster than I did. 2 years later and I still have not totally moved on and I am currently still struggling - almost missing my normal happy life and running towards it and yet being dragged down by my feelings for my ex and all the good memories. I am almost there, I hope. I think from my personal experience I can only say that perhaps staying in touch with your ex is a bad idea, as it will torture you and prevent you from moving on, because you still love him and the situation is so "unreal" that we just cannot get our heads around how it is even possible. As we already know from our experience and all the posts on this forum, Egyptian boys can be very charming when they want to and are also possessive and jealous. This means that every time your ex will hear in your voice that you try to forget him and move on or that you are not as warm and loving as he is used to (even if you pretend it), he will switch his charm on, so that not to lose you - after all, losing you means that you will end up with another man and will be happy without him and the nature of Egyptian boys makes them absolutely furious about it. Please, don’t let him control you. I know, easier said than done.
The interesting thing is that I never actually met my ex’s parents. He has two brothers and I met only one of them. Curiously enough, the brother that I did meet liked me very much and he was the one standing on our side in all the family disputes regarding our potential future. The other brother who lived with the father and who I never met was absolutely against our relationship... Another story: one of my Spanish colleagues married an Egyptian lady. I suppose it is a different situation, as we have a European man and Egyptian woman, however, my friend did say that the family was against their relationship in the beginning and what helped to convince them in favour was to meet them and see them face to face. In my case meeting my ex’s brother worked as well – I did not even have to convince him, he could see that I loved my boyfriend and that I was a normal person and not the devil as they (Egyptian) portray us (European/Christian). Is meeting the family face to face on of the ingredients for a successful relationship with an Egyptian? The story of my Spanish friend in the end had a happy ending. Was it also because the Egyptian lady fought for them and that is why they are still happy years later? Is that one of the key ingredients for a successful Egyptian love story – the Egyptian side has to be the woman, because only a woman can love so much that she will find for her love until the end of the universe? Well, no matter what we think can help the situation, it is too late for most of us on this forum...

cii33
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4/1/2015 12:42    
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Hello ladies,

It's sad that we some times feel a need to air our dirty laundry for everyone to see. I also understand the need to reach out to someone who may have been through something similiar, especially when it's dealing with a situation/person/people in a foreign country. The fact is, you wanted to let your guard down because you fell in love. I'm sure there are lots of Egyptian men and other men, even from our own countries who are looking for opportunities through women they meet. They may use women to reach their goals or soothe their needs. They may be players, they may be insincere, etc... It could also be the other way around too. I'm fairly sure some of these Egyptian families want to protect their sons/daughters from people of the western world. Vice versa, my family was upset with me for marrying an Egyptian. They were very worried about me. They had all sorts of stereotypical views. I'm still married to my husband. Our fifth wedding anniversary is coming up on April 29, 2015, GOD willing. When we met initially I wasn't even looking for love. He was the one that was proposing the idea. His family (mainly his mother) was against the idea completely. She was being dramatic and didn't want her baby boy to have anything to do with an awful American. I told him at that time, I don't want to be married to someone who's family detests me. Rather, I'd like to stay single or marry someone who's family loves me and wants me to be a part of their lives. He told me she would come around, because he knows his mom. I felt very concerned about the whole situation. I did feel from knowing him and the person he was, that his mother raised him very well. She had raised all her children up to be successful and good people. I had nothing but respect for this woman and I hadn't even met her in person yet. I talked to his eldest brother over the phone. He asked me, "Why my brother?" I told him, he chose me and I was very reluctant, because I had already been divorced. I didn't want to ever go through that again. I also told him that I felt his brother was in a situation that if he didn't marry soon, he was going to do something he may regret. He's human and has the potential to make mistakes as we all do. Above all I was falling in love with him and felt like I would want to spend the rest of my life with him. Not to mention he gave me butterflies when I heard his voice and every time I saw him. It was a much more indepth conversation than that, but it was something for me to consider. Is this family going to hate me? I didn't want any part of that if that would be the case. I trusted my husband knew his mother and we married. After the marriage she wanted to meet me. After meeting me and spending some time with her and the rest of his family, I knew I had made the right decision. I lived in Egypt for almost a year and it was an awesome experience for me. I love his family like my own. They do treat me like I'm part of their family. They sincerely love me and they are happy I married their son/brother, uncle, cousin, etc... He does have an awesome mother. She is very protective, but good mothers follow their children and try their best to guide them. I am not trying to say I have this perfect life. We struggle sometimes. We are living in USA now. I miss Egypt, but I also remember going through culture shock there. I love things about both places and can't stand things about both. I do have one good thing though. That is my husband. He goes through everything with me. Marrying someone from a different culture is very difficult if you are set in your ways. You have to be willing to respect your spouse's differences and vice versa. You have to be patient, kind and understanding. Above all you have to be open and always keep the communications lines going. I'm certain that all of you women had the best intentions. It is possible you were being used. It's possible they jumped into the situation without thinking about the consequences for all involved. That has to hurt. It also might make you not willing to let your guard down again, to trust someone new in your life. I am sorry that all of you had bad experiences. You live and you learn. Please don't stereotype all Egyptian men to be prone to this behavior. You can't put yourself in a risky situation without expecting the possibility of getting burned. Don't give up on love, even with an Egyptian or any other possibility. Think of all the other things that may have happened. At least you are still at an age that you can move on and start over. Learn from your mistakes. If anyone every proposed those ideas again, check it out, make sure it feels right. Not only with your potential husband but with their family too. Do you even like their country? Could you stand the possibility of living there? I've read a lot of negative comments from people on this forum. The problem is, often they are speaking from personal experiences and they had bad ones. They also compare everything to where they come from and their perspectives. The reality is, there are people who are foreigners who really love living in Egypt. Not everyone has the same or similar experiences. If you have good in your heart, you can attract good people. Try to keep an open mind. I know my situation is different and I'm truly blessed. Even when my life doesn't seem so perfect, I can recollect much worse times. Cherish the good times, learn from the bad, be strong and move on. I hope you can all find happiness in your future. I believe you can.

Noor44
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4/1/2015 13:00    
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Hi Jo, great to read your response. Yes he did live with me in the UK. Aside from the roof over his head, he also got a job via me and sadly works in the same office! So he is like my nemesis now. My job is more senior than his and I get to work internationally as well as managing my own diary so I've been overseas and working from home a lot but on the times I've had to go into the office it makes me feel so ill and panicky. No we didn't have children, I never wanted any and he said he didn't too. Not sure if that's a red flag or not, to be honest he is too selfish, tight and immature to deal with a child anyway so it never really concerned me but I do know this can be classed as a red flag too.

Sad isn't it that their families influence so much and are so selfish and backward that they just don't want their kin to be happy. Despite being Western and Christian, I actually know more about Islam than a lot of Muslims, I gave up alcohol, celebrated Ramadam with him, learnt the shahada, watched prayers on our tv and read the Qu'ran. I also cooked Egyptian dishes and made sure on the weekend we had an Arabic day and a Western day. So truly embraced his culture, which I loved and respected. My whole family ensured they bought only halal when we went for dinner and didn't drink alcohol around him. I would also be modest when in Egypt, cover my hair when needed, be covered in clothes and always follow him.

So all the things I could do I would, not my fault my date and place of birth were unacceptable! And he knew that all along. It used to amaze me in Cairo seeing girls spit or hiss at me or be bitchy when they had the tightest jeans and tools on, tons of makeup but just because they had their hijab on they were supposedly more pious than me!

I've never net a culture so full of hypocrisy. I have the phrase ringing in my ears, "it's ok to lie to a Christian". Guess that was the justification.

I agree with you being in touch is a bad idea: my husband always makes contact when he sees in my work diary I'm in another country......he likes to derail me. He did actually want me to be a second wife of sorts.....his warped idea was he would get another job in Europe within our company so he could pop back to the
UK from time to time and stay with me and we could also go on holiday together! I said what about your wife (once he marries her). He said what about her?!!! Since when dies a woman tell me what to do! Again, staggering......a blow to my heart that's for sure. Clearly thought the same about me.

Noor44
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4/1/2015 15:19    
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Frankly I find your response rather smug and insulting. You've made made assumptions here......without knowing the back story. If you see my latest post you will see that I actually followed Islam as fully as I could, he didn't want me to convert, which could be construed as a red flag. You're lucky you had the luxury of meeting his family: I wanted to but never could due to the alleged lack of acceptance.

I have been going to the Middle East for 13 years and speak Arabic.....do you?

I have a good and pure heart, I fully supported him in everything, put him first above my own needs and wants. I wasn't looking for love either, he pursued me. I constantly was the voice of reason and challenged our relationship, he pursued and reassured me and my family that he was serious and would never choose his family over me and then did exactly that. It took a lot to let my guard down.

I too was in my 5th year of marriage. Timing is not an indicator of sincerity.

Trust me I have not stereotyped, in fact thus is my 3rd relationship with an Egyptian. And I defended him and his culture against my own family, who I lost for a while as a result. Luckily we are now back on track. My friends still don't accept what he has done as he has lied and cheated to them too. All my family and all my friends accepted him, accommodated his beliefs and embraced him only to have their feelings trashed and to receive a torrent of abuse when they told him they could not condone or accept his treatment of me.

You may feel safe but don't rest too easy......if you had seen how wonderful my husband was, how everyone loved his winning smile and sense of humour, what a team we made, how he swore forever love. Fast forward and he is the complete opposite and the threatening abusive behaviour is unrecognisable.

I might only be 44 but it is not age that stops me moving on and healing. You have to be a victim of such an experience to understand how it completely and utterly destroys and devastates you. The pain is unbearable.

I hope for your sake you never feel it. Insha'Allah.

melissa1984
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4/1/2015 16:21    
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Geez Noor, I am with you. Air your dirty laundry? Say what? Thank God there is a place for women to share their experiences on here and it is oh so great that your experience has been different but that doesn't allow you to talk down to someone who has a different one. And frankly her husband got everything by being married to Noor including a job and a roof over his head not to mention a partner who respected his culture as did her family. No one has by the way ever said on this forum that situations don't vary but if you read all of these responses including from a well educated Egyptian male you might get educated yourself about the mindset and innerrworkings of the Egyptian culture. I suggest you read all of magnumJoe's posts as he was raised in Egypt, lives there now and I think brings a lot to this forum. Again, glad your situation is good, it may or may not stay that way but either way, Noor and every other person on here has the right to speak the truth about their situation. You certainly did, while shaming Noor for not having the same experience you have had.

MagnumJoe
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4/1/2015 17:03    
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Jo999

The reason why tge relationship has a chance of going better when the egyptian party is a woman, is not at all the difference between men and women's power of love.

Actually, paradoxically, the reason that it might go smoothly (either work or not, but at least progress smoothly), is the absence of decision on the woman's part, and the fear of consequences of disobeying the parents; which is supposed to be a bad thing, but in this specific situation, it does strikingly work as protection.

A man in egypt (in some backward cultures of egypt, because there are many cultures) would be shamed for proposing the idea of marrying a foreigner,

(since to some egyptian cultures, foreigner women are indecent, seeking cultural invasion, and to some people represent a form of imperialism coming to claim their children; and this might [just might] be one of the reasons some egyptian men marry foreigners, to satisfy the need to dominate the figure of imperialism they see in foreign women, but they also like them very much so it's a forbidden love and a conflict of desire versus an imaginary unbased creed)

be disowned/chastised if he nonetheless proceeded and did it against his parents' will.

But for a female, that second option is not there. There is nothing called "she" did it against their will or she would be killed or much severely stigamtized than the man. So she has no choice but to tell her parents since the beginning of the relation about the guy so as to seek approval and not get into trouble later.

But men are supposed to be the wild mavericks who would sometimes get away with some doings but then their parents come around later, unlike with females: parents won't ever come around.

These differences between men and women's status in the society makes the relationship with an egyptian woman goes from the beginning through the "parents acceptance" filter.

Add to that the innate immaturity in males in general (not just egyptians), which is not in females who seek security and stability over a fling, desire or an end.

Noor44
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4/1/2015 17:07    
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Thank you Melissa, appreciate your comments. I wasnt looking to air any laundry here at all: i originally only commented to offer support to Jo999 to let her know that she is not alone in the circumstances of her situation, and to give her some comfort and reassurance that she had a lucky escape by not being married. MagnumJoe's comments are so insightful and gave me some comfort by helping to reaffirm what i thought about cultural abuse.

This is a great forum and really helps others by sharing stories. I didnt even know about these situations until it happened to me and i researched it: proof perfect that my heart was pure and trusting. Just the sort that gets wrecked.

melissa1984
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4/1/2015 17:39    
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Noor, I am with you. You don't need to be talked down to and no one on this site has ever claimed that all Egyptians are bad. Airing your dirty laundry? Excuse me, lets say share our experiences good and bad and in the middle. You did everything you could, were deeply respectful and I doubt he made that many concessions for you. You are obviously a bright, successful woman and I am thinking that scared him too. It is so ironic given that The Prophet was married to a woman 15 years his senior and he worked for her and she was wealthy, he poor. So, who knows why so many of these guys feel the need to be abusive toward women and to control them. I have learned a lot from Magnum Joe though about the mentality and as much as it is killing you, you deserve and will have better. It is tough I know, these guys are so handsome and charming but it seems to rarely work long term. The cultures are just so different even love rarely can bridge the gap. Especially for a smart, loving,educated, successful woman like yourself it'd be hard for a less confident man to handle your strength and undermining it could well become a past time. Good luck to you and you did everything you could to make it work and that is all you could have done.

melissa1984
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4/1/2015 17:42    
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whoops thought no. 1 response did not go through so I rewrote, sorry. Only meant one to go through!

Noor44
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4/2/2015 15:42    
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Melissa your words are so wise......and so kind. Thank you for the lovely things you said, meant a lot to me. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience too: only someone who has been hurt by in this way could write so intelligently and insightfully. I hope you have started to heal too......it's so hard though isn't it and right now I wonder if I will ever love and trust again. It was my second marriage so lit me hard. Strong people like you give me hope though, thanks again for your kindness and for backing me: that post from Mrs Smug knocked me for six a bit!

Jo999
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4/3/2015 18:18    
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Dear All on this forum thread – somehow I feel like you are my friends, a support group of a kind, EA “Egyptian Anonymous” ;) Reading all the stories helps me understand that my Egyptian boyfriend wasn’t for me; it helps me stay strong and hopefully will help me to move on. I always had hopes that magically my ex would grow up, but now I know he will not, not to the standards that I would need him to. If we were going to be together, I would forever be scared of him leaving me for his family, leaving me to marry an Egyptian woman, scared of him taking my children away from me and turning them against me and scared of all the horror stories described in these posts above.

MagnumJoe – I learnt a lot from you, thank you for “babysitting” us, lost European women ;) The situation is shocking for us, because indeed we cannot comprehend the behaviour and treatment we get from the Egyptian boys and you help us to understand what is going on. In fact, you help me to realise that it is time to stop fooling myself and drop my false hopes.

Melissa and Noor – thank you for support. Indeed, it helps to hear from other woman in the same boat. Noor, the way you tried to accommodate for your husband’s culture and religion is truly remarkable, he is an idiot and it is such a shame that his selfish nature will never let him understand what magnitude of an idiot he is.

In regards to the post of cii33, I felt uncomfortable reading the post, but I actually feel that she did not mean to come across smug or be mean to us at all. I think written posts/emails can often come across completely opposite to what they were meant to in the first place. I think the lady was very proud of her relationship and happy about it and at the same time she definitely did not understand our situation and what we went through and actually probably did not even understand fully what we wrote before. It seems that she thinks all the posts in here were about scammers – and they are not. Many of the posts are about real feelings from both sides, but unfortunately, as we discovered, love does not conquer all, does not conquer culture, upbringing, immaturity and selfishness. Cii33 seems to again refer to the popular saying that they are bad apples in all nations and we shouldn’t generalise. Wrong. I think MagnumJoe truly helped us to get a lot closer to the bottom of the problem. And Cii33 said herself, if we put ourselves in a dangerous situation we have to expect to be burnt. I did not know that dating an Egyptian man was a “dangerous situation”, now I know, and it seems cii33 knows/suspects as well, even if she is pretending she doesn’t. Cii33 – I wish you luck and I wish you never have to understand what we are all going on about xxx

marcynabdou
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4/3/2015 19:35    
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If ur talking about me as the lady that didn't understand well I do if u read this whole thread...I went thru the same thing as most of these people but with a Yemeni we met young here in states had 2 kids and he raised 2 of my others and ten years later.after we marry divorce and cheat on me left and married his cousin in yemen..I was devastated for a long time til I met abdou on facebook sure I was scared Lol but I did my research got to know him and made that leap... was the best thing I ever did...and that's why I say it's not where they r from it's who they r as a person and Yes family has alot to do with it when it comes to Muslims not really just the Egyptian man..the man really has to be stand up for what he wants if he really wants a foreign wife.. thank God for my husband's family is nothing like I read on here but I know it's true with some..anyway good luck to u all and don't give up on love no matter where u find it Cuz if u give up u will never know...live love learn and laugh

Jo999
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4/3/2015 20:18    
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marcynabdou, please read my post, I refer to cii33, not you, unless you have two logons under different name...

Jo999
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4/3/2015 20:24    
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Marcynabdou - I hope it doesn't surprise you that there is yet one another lady on this forum/in the whole world happy with an Egyptian man, because it seems that you assumed that I was writing about you. In summary, even you seem to think you must be in minority... And yet it is bad for us to generalise, hmmm

Jo999
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4/3/2015 20:25    
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sorry, I shouldn't write when I am tired, in the middle of the night (when I can't seem to manage for more diplomacy). My apologies.

Jo999
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4/3/2015 20:31    
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On a more cheerful note - I am going to Egypt in a week. This is my first holiday in there when I am not going to see my ex (he doesn't know I am coming to his town and will not know, as I know how to avoid places he frequents). Hope this is not a bad idea and bad memories will not flood in and spoil my holiday. I am kind of strong enough, I think...

marcynabdou
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4/3/2015 20:44    
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I'm not surprised but for some reason I did think u were talking to me sorry..and that's awesome wish me and hubby were going back already but we have to wait for his vacation time...but I truly do believe there is a bigger picture here it's about love and trust not really bout Egyptian men with foreign women just seems u here more stories because Egypt is a beautiful place and alot of women tend to vacation there get caught up in a fantasy and that's where they go wrong...if the guy is young and he's hitting on a older lady..red flag duh that's most places anyway...Lowlife men looking for a sugar mama r everywhere especially in the states..they even have websites specifically for it Lol..I hope u have a great time jo999 what part u going to

melissa1984
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4/3/2015 20:49    
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Egypt is great but I have never seen people who seem to be related to everyone. Will you be in Cairo? If so you should be fine. Anywhere else he may find you. Let us know about your trip. Luxor and Aswan especially are gossipy. If in Luxor, go to Jamboree Restaurant in the souk. It is awesome and cheap too.

melissa1984
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4/3/2015 20:49    
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Egypt is great but I have never seen people who seem to be related to everyone. Will you be in Cairo? If so you should be fine. Anywhere else he may find you. Let us know about your trip. Luxor and Aswan especially are gossipy. If in Luxor, go to Jamboree Restaurant in the souk. It is awesome and cheap too.

marcynabdou
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4/3/2015 20:56    
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Oh and by the way me and abdou just had 2 year anniversary and our son Alex is 10 months now just started walking :)

melissa1984
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4/3/2015 21:02    
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The states? Lived here my whole life, traveled widely and never experienced or heard about the volume of bad experiences on this site. Curious, where in the states are you speaking of, I would like to go there. It is a HUGE country and generalizations would be hard to make but yea love to hear just where you are talking about. Thanks,

Jo999
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4/3/2015 21:21    
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Marcynabdou, congrats on your anniversary.

Holiday in notorious Sharm. I almost dare him, find me if you can! Actually, the last time I was there he had no clue until I rang him (I was weak). Now I will not, for many reasons. He will not know as long as I do not make a mistake.

MagnumJoe
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4/8/2015 00:29    
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Lol @ "babysitting" this cracked me up :D

Nah you're all good grown up women...

It's just that we (educated egyptians) suffer as much as you do with this "ill culture" that has become the norm, unfortunately.

All times are ET.  


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