antifreeze
4/25/2016 00:01 EST
Hi,
My wife and I live in Oakland California, just across the border from Berkeley. In a couple of years both of us will have retired. Our plan is to spend our retirement in Europe, preferable in Nice, or perhaps a village near it.
We travel a fair amount, twice a year on the average, and more often than not we find ourselves in Europe. Our favorite countries seem to be Britain, France and Italy. At least those are the countries that we’ve visited most frequently. Regarding Nice, we have visited it only once and then only for a few days. But we enjoyed it a lot: beautiful setting, great weather, the sea, close to mountains, close to Italy and Switzerland.
As you can imagine, we have lots of questions. To us the most important ones involve cost of living expenses and housing.
We have a middle-class lifestyle here in Oakland, and it would be nice to continue that lifestyle in Europe. My first question pertains to the accuracy of the cost-of-living calculators in Expatistan and Numbeo. Are they reliable? Any complaints?
When we retire, my wife and I expect that in addition to savings, we will have a gross annual income of approximately six figures, plus or minus a couple of thousand. Is this enough for a middle class life style in Nice?
We would like to rent a flat for our first year or two as we familiarize ourselves with that area of the world before deciding to buy a place. If we had our druthers, we would rent a three bedroom, two bathroom flat. As of now we’re not sure if we want it furnished or not. Given our income, is this possible?
And finally, we concerned about how we go about renting a flat. Everything we’ve seen on the net, even labeled “long term”, seems to be vacation rentals with very little available annually. So, I guess the question is how do we go about finding a place to rent? I assume it will have to be done there, but beyond that, I have little of no clue.
Thank you for any help you might give.
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xantippe
4/25/2016 09:40 EST
I cannot say if the cost comparison sites are accurate as I do not know them. We came to France from Sacramento ten years ago. We live in Brittany and have a holiday home in Nice. We find the cost of living similar to CA. If you check out one of the rental companies such as seloger.com, you will find long term rentals, It will give you a good idea of how much a rental would be. There is also The Adrian Leeds Group, I am not sure if they have any long term rentals in Nice they have a newsletter called Parler Nice.
The biggest saving living in Nice is not needing a car, Public transport is excellent and if you need one to go to an out of the way place you can hire one. If at all possible though change your drivers licence to a State that is exchangeable for a French licence we didn't, and have to take the test again in French. Unless you are fluent in French and won't find this a problem. You have a year after arriving to change it to a French licence. Good luck.
Most apartments aren't as large as you may find in Oakland but about what you will find in San Fran, but I think less expensive.
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Beachstruck
4/25/2016 10:12 EST
I read that you are living in Brittany, at least part time. I plan on moving to Dinan, later this year, from Orange County. Planning a visit, the end of Msay to meet with a realtor and to determine if this will be the area I will retire in. Appreciate any thoughts from you or if there is an expat group in Brittany (Dinan)
Merci
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skersh
4/25/2016 11:27 EST
I have found it much cheaper to live here than the US. Nice may be a little higher priced than where I live (a much smaller less touristic town) but utilities are so much cheaper here. For instance my electricity costs 75€/mo compared to $200/mo for a similar sized apartment, and my bundled cable, internet, landline, and cellphone bill costs 35€/mo.
Vegetables and dried goods are cheaper or comparable, but meats are typically at least twice as expensive as US meats. Wine is cheaper and liquor and beer is comparable.
What will really start wracking up your bills are things of pleasure, not necessity. Restaurants, clothing, shoes, and electronics are much more expensive here. For example a pair of Levi's that cost $40 at Boscov's are 100€ here and when the PS4 first came out it was $100 more expensive here. In short if going out and owning a lot of material possessions is important to you, it will be more expensive to live here.
My husband and I go out to eat maybe twice a month and buy our clothes and shoes in the US while we're visiting family and are able to live much more comfortably here than in the US where we were living paycheck to paycheck.
Hope that was helpful and not just a rant! =P
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Lekitanin
4/25/2016 11:27 EST
Renting an apartment it is the easiest part of the whole thing... There are tons of real estate sites on the Internet. Regarding your anticipated income - six figures plus savings would be probably more then enough to have a life style of a typical French family. I think that much more complicated and time consuming is securing your health insurance and permanent residency in France.
You are most likely aware that you can not just simply move to France for retirement and live there happily for the rest of your life. I would start from getting in touch with French consulate general in San Francisco (or LA?) first and consequently start to collect info about rentals, banking, how to sign for all the utilities, etc. etc.
Members of this forum already living in France will be a good source of information you may need.
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Beachstruck
4/25/2016 11:37 EST
Although I am moving to the Brittany area, your comments about expenses/costs were really helpful
Thanks
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antifreeze
4/25/2016 17:58 EST
Thank you xantippe for the reference to sloger.com. This is the first on-line rental agent that I've found that seems to have reasonable prices. Hopefully these are truly long term listings, not ones available for, say, just the tourist season.
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antifreeze
4/25/2016 18:05 EST
We will have health insurance before we arrive in France. That should be no problem. But the only insurer in the States for expats is Cigna. Hopefully, they will do. But you raise a good question. After the initial year in France, how easy is it to get onto the French healthcare system? I ask this since both of us will be retired, in the neighborhood of 70 years old.
Thank you,
antifreeze
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RubyTooz
4/25/2016 18:30 EST
Hi Antifreeze,
First of all, yes there are plenty of sites listing long-term rentals (explorimmo, pap.fr, le bon coin, se loger, etc.), but that does not necessarily mean that renting in France is easy. I don't want to discourage you, but I wouldn't feel right leaving you with that erroneous perception. Since the housing laws are so strict in France, and the renters so well protected, landlords and agents are VERY picky about who they rent to - even French people have a hard time getting an application accepted, especially if they don't have a CDI (long-term French work contract). If Nice is like the Languedoc, where I live, there will be expat owners who are more willing to rent to other expats. There are WAY more seasonal rentals than long-term, unfurnished ones, but I would see what anglo/international rental agencies have to offer before hitting the French websites.
On the healthcare, there are many insurers who'll cover you for that first year in France (Bupa, even AARO) in order to get your initial visa. After 3 months of residency, however, you are entitled to apply to the French healthcare system. If you're American, you'll have to pay a contribution (about 8% of your income), regardless of your age or retirement status, because you did not pay into a European national healthcare system. The good news is, the contributions will not increase with your age or number of claims, and your acceptance into the system is not impacted by pre-existing conditions.
Regards,
Dennelle
www.renestance.com
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Catsmeow
5/14/2016 16:26 EST
We are a retired couple living in Florida. We are hoping to move to Nice around October 2016. We will apply of ra long term visa in August. Keep us posted on your experience with the move.
Regards
Dan&Cat
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