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Can I actually afford to live here?

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DLR1963
  8/28/2017 08:44 EST

My wife and I are already US expats living in Mexico, but we haven't yet determined where we are going to put down roots.

We are both collecting Social Security and we have a modest retirement account, say monthly of about 3500 USD.

I'm not looking for a Villa Only the Riviera, but neither do I want to move and find I can't "really" afford anything but a backstreet studio either. So to start my France questions...

For health reasons we need to be in a warmish environment. Where are the possible locations (if any) where our budget might work?

Initially we would rent, but if we fall in love with an area we would use our nestegg to buy (factoring into monthly budget).

Thanks in advance for your toughts.

Filoso
  8/28/2017 19:24 EST

The South of France is nice and cheaper in smaller towns and rural areas. Your budget sounds fine.

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ezechiel
  8/29/2017 04:35 EST

Hello,

You can check the other side of the Riviera. The good suburbs of Marseille, Aix-en-Provence, Montpellier or Perpignan. Nice warm climate and pleasing lifestyle at an affordable cost.

ezechiel
  8/29/2017 04:35 EST

Hello,

You can check the other side of the Riviera. The good suburbs of Marseille, Aix-en-Provence, Montpellier or Perpignan. Nice warm climate and pleasing lifestyle at an affordable cost.

ranadelnorte
  8/29/2017 11:07 EST

You have some exciting plans for your retirement! Have you ever visited France? Do you speak the language?

Suggest you plan a long visit to check out several spots, renting short-term to see if your budget can accommodate your preferred lifestyle.

IMO the most important aspect about cost of living in France is currency exchange fluctuations. Do you think you could manage to live in France if the US $ was worth 30% less than the €, as it was 2 years ago? For example, the fall of the £ has affected thousands of British retirees in France.

Check out this site to see cost comparisons between various cities and towns across France.
http://www.changerdeville.fr/ou-vivre/cout-de-la-vie-941.html

Good luck!

antifreeze
  8/29/2017 11:32 EST

I don't know if you've tried these sites for clost of living, but you might check them out:

expatistan.com

numbeo.com

I have no idea what other contributors to this site have to say about these, but I found them quite helpful.

Antifreeze

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We are the best possible negotiator to help our expatriate clients to safely, efficiently and effectively find the right property in the right place in the French Riviera. Whether buying or renting, French Riviera House Hunting's objective is to find the best place for you, making sure that there are no hidden problems in the acquisition or renting process!
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jrobbins
  9/18/2017 18:01 EST

Cost of living depends on life style. We live about 1/2 the year in Lyon and 1/2 in CA. Public transport in Lyon is wonderful and cheap with a senior monthly pass. No need for a car. Produce in the market is very reasonable and fresh. I have health insurance but at 35 euro a visit I don't even bother to file a claim. Medication is similar. Internet, unlimited international phone and cable TV is 33 euro a month; cell 15. French living can be inexpensive, unless you are addicted to a US life style; sorry no steak or strawberries in December.
John

France2018
  9/19/2017 14:02 EST

John - You are doing what I'm planning to do - part of the year in California, part in France. I haven't decided on a city yet, but Lyon is one of the contenders. How did you decide on Lyon and how long have you been splitting the year between there and CA? Do you have any specific neighborhoods to recommend? Did you buy or do you rent each time you are there? And finally, do you maintain tax residence in CA/US or do you stay long enough in France to be tax resident there?

traceyspada
  11/1/2017 23:09 EST

What about the taxes you have to pay in France on the retirement income- that will have to come out of the $3,500 and also rate of exchange..

Yesitisme
  11/2/2017 00:27 EST

France does not tax us social security nor ira’s.

Yesitisme
  11/2/2017 00:27 EST

France does not tax us social security nor ira’s.

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We are the best possible negotiator to help our expatriate clients to safely, efficiently and effectively find the right property in the right place in the French Riviera. Whether buying or renting, French Riviera House Hunting's objective is to find the best place for you, making sure that there are no hidden problems in the acquisition or renting process!
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traceyspada
  11/2/2017 12:20 EST

I understand that you do not pay taxes to France for Social Security, but you do have to pay taxes on any income from other investments outside of a pension plans such as dividends and interest from stocks, pay outs etc.. Also, you do pay towards healthcare (carte vitale) which is about 9,710 euros a year if you do not contribute income from work or a business.

ellenycparis
  11/2/2017 20:34 EST

Respectfully, please give us your source(s) for your several statements ? would be helpful in evaluating! Cheers and thanks.

traceyspada
  11/2/2017 22:25 EST

http://www.spectrum-ifa.com/proposed-french-tax-changes-2018/

Sorry, I read it too fast. You pay 8% above after the 9,710 euro...

https://www.renestance.com/blog/important-changes-to-the-tax-declaration-system-in-france-part-2/
Bonus tax break
If you are pre-retired and inactive and therefore paying for your adhesion to France’s social security system (including access to health services through your Carte Vitale), your allowance before paying the 8% of your annual household income (your Numéro Fiscale de Référence on your Avis d’Impôts) for this has risen to 9710€.

guestuser
  11/2/2017 22:56 EST

So retires have to pay over 800 euros a month for healthcare?

"you do pay towards healthcare (carte vitale) which is about 9,710 euros a year if you do not contribute income from work or a business."

So in addition to all other taxes and expenses, 800 euros a month is for healthcare for someone on social security and retired?

traceyspada
  11/2/2017 23:13 EST

No, you get to take off 9,710 euros from your taxable income and then you pay 8% toward the French health card so that you can be part of the system. At least that's how I read it... So say you have income of 30,000 euros a year you minus the 9,710 and then you pay 8% on the balance of 1,623.20 annually - which comes out to 135 euros a month.. From what I understand this is actually better for retirees as the the deduction is higher than in the past.

majgroves
  11/3/2017 02:04 EST

TraceySpada,

YOU: "but you do have to pay taxes on any income from other investments outside of a pension plans such as dividends and interest from stocks, pay outs etc.""

ME: If the income is also reportable to the U.S. IRS, you can take a credit for the taxes you paid France through the Foreign Tax Credit. This could effectively nullify the taxes paid to France. But it is after the fact. Pay first, get credit later!

The original post also did not mention those incomes you are talking about. I don’t have those types of income either and I am no expert on taxes. That is why it is important to get a tax consultant to answer the specifics.

To DLR1963

One can too easily act on what they see here only to be sorry they did not seek expert advice.

guestuser
  11/3/2017 08:41 EST

Oh ok that make since now!

I read some sites online and yes it seems exactly like you said.

Yes what i read did not say about retirees too much. Like one site mentioned you have to be under 65?

https://www.expatica.com/fr/healthcare/Guide-to-health-insurance-in-France_108848.html

Most USA retirement, Social Security age is about 65 and up. So i wonder if someone 65 and over can still get public healthcare?

ellenycparis
  11/4/2017 16:45 EST

Timesjobyrne, pls clarify -
France will use your annual MEANING social security + pension (if any) ? That is: not including any OTHER revenues?
as a gauge for how much you will pay each year for your health care -- usually between <6 & 8% pic? OF? THIS sounds as if you mean ANY|ALL "revenues" aka income.
Thanks for clarifying!

ellenycparis
  11/4/2017 16:51 EST

Thanks for the source and the clearer statement of how you read it-- when your reading slowed down :) I will certainly check out that website....

ellenycparis
  11/4/2017 17:49 EST

Thanks for the source and the clearer statement of how you read it-- when your reading slowed down :) I will certainly check out that website....

Kathling9
  11/5/2017 06:59 EST

You can absolutely afford to live well in many areas of France. I chose Sète, in the south, but not the Riviera south. I’ve lived in 8 US states and a couple of other countries and prefer warm weather. My US teacher pension and social security add up to roughly your income. I bought an apartment and a car outright and my monthly bills (supplementary health insurance, car and apt insurance, utilities, car insurance, Internet, phone, tv), add up to less than €1000 a month, so I travel and dine out, shop, slowly renovate, and I still save every month.
The health care in France is amazing - low cost, high quality. I spent the last ten years in Texas, and the cost of living is lower here, despite my sea views, easy access to 8 miles of beaches, and ability to fly, drive, or take a train to places I only ever dreamed of seeing.
I visited four regions on six separate trips to France before I decided on my small city, and right now I plan to live here for the rest of my life.
So many things to love about France.
Funny aside: if you’re used to the manaña mindset in Mexico, you’ll have no problem assimilating in the south of France.

Kathling9
  11/5/2017 07:06 EST

Yup. I’m over 65, moved to France last year, had no problem getting accepted into the French healthcare system. And they don’t care a fig about “pre-existing conditions.”
There’s a lot of misinformation (unintentional, I’m sure) on these forums and other sites. I hired a French relocation company to help me before I ever applied for my visa from the USA.
Best money I have ever spent.

Diane2263
  11/5/2017 10:19 EST

Kathling9, would you mind sharing what relocation company you used?

guestuser
  11/5/2017 11:59 EST

Kathling9

["Yup. I’m over 65, moved to France last year, had no problem getting accepted into the French healthcare system. And they don’t care a fig about “pre-existing conditions.”"]

Thanks this is very good to know!

2cartalkers
  11/5/2017 12:18 EST

Bonjour, Being that I am new to this blog I hope I can garner some needed info? My wife (65) and I (69) are U. S. citizens and have decided we want to retire to the south of France. Any assistance you can forward will be greatly appreciated.
Here are the questions;
1.) Does anyone have a step by step process for applying for a retirement visa that they are willing to share?
2.) Much of our retirement income is derived from an Individual Retirement Account (IRA), social security and rental income. Which of these will be taxed by France and at what percentage rate?
3.) We have a dog that will be coming with us, what is the procedure/paperwork necessary to bring the dog?
4.) What villages in the south with a modest cost of living have an English speaking expat community?
5.) Health insurance-we are both relatively healthy but would like to enter the French healthcare system, how is that done?
6.) This will be a permanent move, so we are thinking of dropping our Medicare Plan B since we won't be using it. By doing so the savings will help offset paying into the French healthcare system. Has anyone dropped Plan B and if so, what steps did you follow to make it happen?
6.) Can we open a French bank account and if yes, what are the ramifications from the U. S. Treasury department/IRS? Years ago when we were in London we opened a small bank account (less than $2000) to cover expenses and when we returned to the USA the IRS gave us the once over until we thoroughly explained in detail the what, why, when of the bank account.
7.) Any other info such as moving tips, what and what not to bring, etc. will also be very helpful.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this and for your help.
Au revoir.

antifreeze
  11/5/2017 16:59 EST

I’m making the move from the states to here, that is Nice, we hired a relocation. It just seemed the simpler thing to do. It doesn’t hurt to have someone in the know when dealing with the officials. And let me tell you, it was the best decision we made. So I have no qualms about suggesting that others considering the move do the same.

Antifreeze

ellenycparis
  11/5/2017 18:47 EST

The percent-of-revenue payment to the system has been cited in this forum topic. Is it on that basis that you paid to get accepted? Merci in advance for your reply!

ellenycparis
  11/5/2017 18:52 EST

I got as far as Expatica. Thanks!! But if you paid a relocation co., were you using those sites to vet the company's advice? Or did the sites convince you you needed a relocation co.? I can picture either possibility and am curious!
Thanks again.

Kathling9
  11/8/2017 06:35 EST

The company I hired is https://www.pleasehelp.fr/
I learned of them from several expat blogs and forums. I called in February of 2016 and hired hired them on the spot.
Through phone calls and emails, they helped me gather all required Visa documents, apostiles, translations, as well as other statements and documents I might need. When I arrived in Paris, they had already booked hotels, train, B&B, rental car, apartment for three months.
The CEO, John Dislins, met me in Bordeaux and took me to meet a bank officer and set up a bank account. I lived in my Sète apartment while property shopping (I had found my realtor through an online expat group) and beginning car search.
John continued to help me with setting up utility accounts, mobile and landline, tv, internet. He gave good recommendations for tradesmen, helped me with bus and train routes, discount cards, train and plane reservations, appointments at the prefecture and immigration offices, obtaining my French drivers license and admission into the French health care system.
I renewed my annual contract with them for 2017 because I needed accurate advice and assistance with French income taxes, my property and habitation taxes, insurance, legal clarifications, more. My French is at a beginner level, despite three classes a week.
The assistance package I purchase allows me to receive assistance with vendors, deliveries, travel arrangements, pretty much any situation which arises.
I need something, I pick up the phone; problem is solved.
Just this week I had an issue with Amazon.fr and their failure to deliver my purchases. After a 3-way call with John's persuasive expertise and flawless French, the item appeared at my door in less than 24 hours.
I can't say enough good things about this company. Every person in the office has helped me at one time or another with prompt replies and flawless results.
They have even spoke on the phone with French officials and faxed paperwork during my appointments, and also written letters to landlord and local officials.
I'm so convinced in their abilities to problem solve, that I have given them the Star Wars ringtone, because when I hear that, I know my rescue is at hand.
My daughter summed up my experience with them by saying it's sort of like having a French husband, only without all the hassle.
At less than $100 a month, they have consistently more than earned their fee, and I plan to renew with them until I can independently navigate en France.

ellenycparis
  11/8/2017 07:50 EST

The way you wrote it, Kathling, does sound like a good deal. In New York, I spend more than $100/mo for office assist by a grad student working 1 morning/wk.! BUT, I don't have a contract with her, and if need be, either of us can cancel the weekly session -- whereas, I'm sure you have a contract, right? Also, no doubt you pay in euros, which you convert to roughly $100/month. Right?
Thanks much for those "precisions" :)

Dallmat
  11/8/2017 08:51 EST

Your Medicare will not cover you outside the US. What will you do about health care expenses?

Rmramseyjd
  11/10/2017 09:28 EST

I’m single. Would probably be renting a small place. Don’t drive. Could i live comfortably on $2500 a month?

ellenycparis
  11/10/2017 12:53 EST

Depends on WHERE you live!

Yesitisme
  11/12/2017 10:56 EST

Kathking9,
I also intend on using the same service.

How did you get on the French Health Care system so quickly? From my research and reading different forums, it can and may take at least 1-2 years of residence. How did you manage this?

I'm asking because I'm 66 and private health care is very expensive for someone my age. I've had quotes of at least 8000 euros per year.

I know we need at least 3 months of residency (long term visitor visa), in reality it may take much longer.

Would you please share your experience with us.

Kathling9
  1/21/2018 12:00 EST

Yesitisme,
I thought I replied to this but am not finding the post. My relocation company keeps a dossier of all my legal documents. They fill out applications — drivers license, insurance (car, appt, health), French taxes, utility contracts, etc, etc, attach a cover letter, send me the PDFs. I print and mail. When my French is better and I’m more comfortable with government offices, I will do everything myself. If I remember correctly, I applied to the Fr healthcare system four months after arrival and received my number within 3 weeks or less and my Carte Vitale a month after that. My supplemental plan is under €200 per month for excellent top up coverage and my government health contribution is roughly the same. And I’m older than you! PM me for more.
K

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