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recommendations for areas to look at housing

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cecilemarie
  2/5/2018 09:12 EST

In March I am making a trip to consider both the city/town to move to and need recommendations for areas to look at apartments or townhouses to rent. I will be looking in Lyon, Montpellier, Bezier, and Perpignan. My husband and I will both be retired. All advice is greatly appreciated!

zhanna2
  2/5/2018 11:03 EST

Cecilemarie - I'm doing almost the same thing - traveling in March to look for housing in Lyon and Montpellier. I'm also going to look at Nantes and Rennes, though being from California, I think I'll be sorely disappointed by the weather! I'll be interested in what you find/learn! I hope you'll share your experiences here and I'll be happy to share mine.When are you planning to move?

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markdfink
  2/5/2018 12:17 EST

My wife and I have been searching the Pézenas area for the last two years, since we really like the combination of proximity to the Mediterranean, airports out of both Montpellier and Beziers, affordable housing, great weather, and a large enough English speaking expat community so that we aren't thrown immediately into the deep end of the language pool. :o)

Just outside of Pézenas, there is Roujan, Caux, and our favorite, Margon. If you attend church, there is a great (small) English speaking church that meets in the area: http://www.simplychurch.fr/. We felt right at home there.

Our hope/plan is to move in early 2020, rent for at least six months to see if living in the area is really for us, then make the move permanent.

Hope this helps!

cecilemarie
  2/5/2018 12:37 EST

Attending a seminar in Montpellier in March, moving to France no later than spring 2019. I have lived in many places in the US and Canada but have been traveling and occasionally working in France, since the 80's so I am prepared for weather and I love the culture! My husband joined me for a trip to Bordeaux in winter and he loved France in spite of the cold rain.

We intend to post what we learn, keeping in mind each person's "likes" differ, just like restaurant preferences. To begin with, we want to rent somewhere we do not need a car, everything we need and want is in walking distance, and access to theater is available.

frabound
  2/8/2018 14:55 EST

I will be following this with interest as I am retiring in France in the spring of 2019. I'm "down to" the Dordogne, the Lot and the Cantal. Love Bordeaux and its proximity to the sea but out of my price range.

Kathling9
  2/21/2018 12:30 EST

Zhanna,
My sister lives in San Diego. Before I moved to France in 2016, I googled “best places in the world with avg 70-80 temps” and found Marseille listed in the top 10, so I visited and found it a little too large and $$ for me. I then visited 5 other Fr areas in 3 years and included Sète in my last three visits. Marseille and Sète have almost identical weather, but I found Sète more affordable and I love being right on the sea. Montpellier is a 22 minute train ride away.
There are lots of “suburb-type” small cities outside of the large ones. I really like Toulouse, as well, have a friend there. Let me know if I can help.

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zhanna2
  2/21/2018 14:17 EST

Kathling9 - thanks for your reply. During my visit to Montpellier, I plan to visit Sete as well. From what I've read, it sounds like a wonderful place and a lot of people seem to have chosen it for their new home. I have a priority in looking for a home that most people don't - one of my 3 dogs has a lot of medical issues (she is in surgery as I type) so I'm looking for larger vet clinics and nearby emergency vets. I've spent time in France with a dog before and while the local vets were good for her relatively simple needs then, this new dog seems to be dictating my future because of her extraordinary medical needs. But Sete is close enough to a large city so that I wouldn't feel like I have to rely on a village vet for her issues. One of the concerns I have about Montpellier and surrounding areas is the presence of processionary caterpillars. Do you have those in Sete, or are they nonexistent because you are on the sea?

cecilemarie
  2/21/2018 17:55 EST

Thanks for your post! My husband and I have decided to give Montpellier a try for a year or so while we travel around and consider other options. We realize our age, pet ownership, desire for culture/entertainment, and love of good food and wine are key drivers. After years of Manhattan living we are used to all those things and have a fairly high standard - so France itself is a no-brainer. Thus, it becomes a matter of other lifestyle choices that will impact our final decision. Architecture, history, safety, weather, and costs to name a few. The dominant architecture of each region makes a difference to us. We are a bit picky and make no apologies! Montpellier has what we like except for Roman ruins. For that, Nimes may be an option. City living where everything we want/need within walking distance is a must. I will be looking at different neighborhoods in Montpellier when I visit in a month. After my visit I will share my findings.

Diane2263
  2/22/2018 12:29 EST

Good luck to you! It's hard to pick an area of France - there are so many good ones. We are in Burgundy, which had most of what we were looking for and we love it, but when we retire I would rather sell our place and move down south I think. Not sure how realistic that is - I've heard selling is not easy! I don't live in an expat area so that probably makes it harder.

I hope your search goes well!!

FlowerFairy
  2/22/2018 15:29 EST

My husband and I (70 and 67) are heading to France in May for three weeks. We too, as are 'millions' of others contemplating relocating (France? Italy?). We are dual British/Australian citizens. Unfortunately we do not have deep pockets and only the Aged Pension for income We have a house to sell which, hopefully, will leave some money in the bank after purchasing. We are the classic "Want a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget!" At our age there is a lot to consider; danger being 'over thinking'. it. We sold up everything in 2015, moved to the south west of Ireland hoping to set up a base but after 16 months made the difficult decision to return Downunder but cannot settle so our thoughts, once again, are turning to heading North!

cecilemarie
  2/23/2018 09:42 EST

FlowerFairy,
Your post cracks me up (starting with your pen name). We are close in age to you and have a similar story. After life in the Northeast US we moved to Florida. In less than one year we realized retirement here is not a match for us. The weather is ok (hurricanes suck though), the beaches are nice, but the food is overpriced and not great quality, housing is expensive, the arts are spread from Miami up to Palm Beach, and a car is a requirement. No history (like Europe) and too many people over 60. Healthcare is terribly expensive and not highly rated either. So, after months of trying to like the place we are planning our move to France sooner than later. We like the idea of walking more, taking trains, and no need for a car. Going from country to country in a short time where we can experience the different cultures, scenery, and history is the biggest plus. We want mental stimulation and need a variety of challenges. We too will be on a fixed income. Other options we will explore for future moves include Spain, Portugal, and Croatia. If you are interested in a fixer-upper, you can buy an old house in Italy for 1 euro plus the costs for repairs which they estimate will run as much as 25,000 euros. You can google the story to learn more.

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majgroves
  2/23/2018 13:18 EST

Warning! We don't live there yet.
We have been looking for just the right place to retire in Europe for over a year now. We wanted to stay south so we looked at Portugal, France, and Italy. After a little research, we didn’t care much for Portugal, so we looked at Italy. Five months ago we thought Ancona, Italy was THE place! But, among other things, taxes became a big problem. As an American expat, no matter where you reside, you pay taxes to the IRS until you die. But unfortunately, Italy will also tax an American Expat’s Social Security benefits up to 43%. You do get credit for what you pay the IRS but it still amounts to 43%.
So, after discovering France will not tax our pensions or our Social Security, we decided to take advantage of the hospitality of France – but where? When we move, I will be 81 and my wife 68. We don’t plan on doing very much driving so transportation became a factor. It also needed to be south. We can't afford Nice, didn’t care much for the fauna down towards Narbonne and we don’t need to be by the sea (been there, done that).
We then put a list of criteria and personal preferences (in no particular order) in writing and ended up selecting Nîmes.
1. First, of course, is its convenient location to all places in the south of France with reasonably good weather. Avignon is only 31 minutes and Sète is only 50 minutes away by train.
2. Then there is the convenience of the prefecture being located there - expecting several trips there in the beginning.
3. We are not getting any younger so we took notice of the large CHU hospital and plenty of medical services - a priority at my age especially.
4. As mentioned, transportation is a factor. Nîmes has a good size train station and a tram-bus system that looks very convenient. Hopefully, we can get by without a car - but we shall see. The small airport also might come in handy. But the major airport in Marseilles or even the one at Montpellier is not too far away.
5. Golf! (Love to play golf). Nîmes has a great Golf Course with convenient bus service. There is also another close by and a small one up near Uzès.
6. One additional benefit is the BritsNimes organization being there. In spite of the name, they have been around for decades and have become a multi-national English speaking organization in Nîmes. They are well organized with plenty of interesting activity groups. Now, I know some will say they would rather assimilate then spend time with more anglophiles. True, but you can get a head start by learning from others who went before you. Anyway, their activities sound like a lot of fun. Look them up.
OK! So, there you have it. We’ve learned not to expect a response from real estate agents - unless we go there and walk in the door. So, that is exactly what we are doing. First, we nail down a location – Nîmes for at least the first year. Then travel there (several times) - look around. Walk in the door of a real estate place and keep looking. Even when we move, we will rent short-time and keep looking around. You just have to do some research, pick a place, and go there several times and le voilà ! – a fresh new start.
Hope this helps. If not, I at least vented out the amount of work we've been doing. We're looking forward to moving to Nîmes in early 2020 and have started taking French lessons.
Ron

LovetheBeach
  2/23/2018 14:54 EST

majgroves, thank you for your detailed report on your research. You have been very thorough! I, too, had thought about the Abruzzo region of Italy, but had the same concern about taxation. I then did my research on Spain and was also put off by the tax situation. Now, my question for you is what specifically did you not like about Portugal? That was next on my list, and I've come across people who either love it, or those who just don't like it at all. Any specifics you can give me will be very helpful. Merci, et bonne chance!

FlowerFairy
  2/23/2018 16:49 EST

CecileMarie Thank you for your post! Yes, when we were in Rome 2014 the Receptionist at the hotel where we were staying told us about the 1 Euro houses; tempting but we are not fixer uppers! That is not to say we have (or at least my husband) not tackled a bit of rejuvenation but my husband is now absolutely sick of fixing up others' neglect. I am hoping for an 'eureka!' moment in May! When we were in the south west of Ireland we did look at a few properties in Spain (thanks to 'A Place in the Sun'). The Agent could not understand why we did not like the 'Urbanisation' houses. Awful! We did find a beautiful townhouse in a Spanish area but Spain was not for us; the biggest factor being the Spanish's insistence in clinging to the barbaric 'sport' of bull fighting and bull running! Barbarism! And we hated hearing the little song birds trapped in the tiniest of cages. Loved Barcelona. I am just hoping we have the courage to again sell up and move across to the other side of the world. Not sure our cat, George, who came with us in 2015/2016 will thank us for doing so! I can just see him disappearing into the sunset the minute he sees a packing box!

cecilemarie
  2/24/2018 08:56 EST

FlowerFairy,
You brought up a very important point with the "cultural" acceptance of the treatment of bulls but also the fact you physically looked. My husband and I did everything on paper, made our lists, calculated costs, read expat stories, reviewed countless international living research articles for years, yet found nothing prepares you like an in person visit of more than a few weeks. We have friends living in Panama who will be returning to the US before long and we were lucky enough they tried it out first. Mexico is inexpensive but the crime (kidnapping and murder) is a show stopper. I worked in Mexico City for 9 months. However, what no one mentions with central and south American countries is the treatment of animals, as in, they do not treat them at al, unless they are richl. The poverty is so bad they do not have enough money for the children, let alone the animals. Being animal lovers we cannot look at an animal in need and we surely cannot afford to help the packs of dogs roaming the streets. It is more than cultural. For example, I think boxing is not a sport and should be banned along with american football. Maybe I am overly empathetic but it is me and will not change. So, I must live somewhere that matches my sensibilities as closely as possible. How a society treats each other, the elderly, children, and animals has progressed because of human empathy and demands for change. As a guest in another country I cannot arrive ready to do battle and demand change.

Kathling9
  2/24/2018 12:31 EST

Hi Zhanna2.
unfortunately, processionary caterpillars are now found even north of Paris, so you might wish to find a new country! Seriously, I have two professional show breeder (Afghans and poodles) friends, one in Limoge, the other in Montpellier, both of whom say that they are not a concern of theirs.

FlowerFairy
  2/24/2018 16:19 EST

Well said Cecilemarie! There is no country in the world free of animal cruelty/neglect but when a country puts their cruelty on show for a spectable for people that is one place to draw the line (not to mention that people - tourists included! - pay money to see it!). While in Cuba I was drawn to tears a few times at the awful plight of stray dogs there. We will never travel to Asia. Australia is no exception with their 'Live Animal Exports'. Moving on to research: I spent hours(weeks/months over a couple of years on the computer doing research before selling up and moving to the south west of Ireland (we originally departed Northern Ireland in 1971 for a new life in Australia) but it is (as you said) what is not mentioned often proves to be the problem. Much like buying a house; the internet listings look fabulous but, again, it is what is not shown proves problematic. I had quite a lot to say on the Irish Forum! We were based in a stunningly beautiful area but the dysfunctional real estate system and wet, wet, wet weather finally did for us and we reluctantly returned to Australia. No regrets though. At least we can say we tried. All one has in our latter years are memories; much better to have those than regrets.

majgroves
  2/24/2018 18:10 EST

To all,

If we are going off subject and talk about countries sponsoring animal cruelty we need to start a new topic thread. I'm not sure this is the right venue. Yes, it happens and it shouldn't etc. You are either for or against etc. If speaking in general, this topic can go on forever.

Please note, the corrida is actually banned across France - on animal cruelty grounds - except in those towns which can demonstrate an unbroken local bullfighting tradition - generally from the Camargue and Rhône river westwards - Nîmes being one such place.

So, you either avoid Europe, France, southwestern France, Nîmes, the arena or the annual Fête. Or you could get active by moving to Nîmes and join the Alliance Anti-Corrida, which is headquartered there!

On the other hand, anyone interested in talking about "recommendations for areas to look at housing"?

Ron and Suzanne

FlowerFairy
  2/24/2018 19:03 EST

Majgroves With respect, although I take your point, there is a lot more to consider when relocating to another country. One can buy a house anywhere. It is the location of that house which is important and the life that goes on around it.

cecilemarie
  2/25/2018 14:55 EST

To all who have been posting in response to my initial post, thank you. To anyone who injects venom into the discussion - I accept you exist only to annoy and hurt others as part of the inescapable broader social media. Sort of like 10% of the population has psychological issues and one doesn't always know at first glance. It is best to ignore.

Moving on from that, what sort of recommendations I originally hoped to elicit are those from expats from any other country who are already living in France long enough to form opinions about where they live, around the Mediterranean from Montpellier south (or close by). Since Montpellier is a university town I assume there are areas of "student housing" that may not be to the liking of a retirement couple, areas of "marginal" society that may not be appropriate, and areas of "expensive" housing that are not in our budget. My husband and I are progressive thinkers and enjoy lively conversations. Add that to our list of previously posted needs for an apartment that accepts pets, is safe for an older woman walking alone in the evening, restaurants, and all amenities nearby. I may abandon this thread if the well has dried up as there are other forums. I will however, make another post when I return from my upcoming visit and seminar. I realize there are people like me who want to make the move and are still researching, not necessarily posting.

Any English speaking people intending to move to France would benefit from reading Janine Marsh's "My Good Life in France". It isn't that her experience that will match yours, it is how she chooses to live like a local that is instructional. You will be accepted by your neighbors if you live the way she does, and being accepted goes a long way toward contentment.

cecilemarie
  2/25/2018 14:55 EST

To all who have been posting in response to my initial post, thank you. To anyone who injects venom into the discussion - I accept you exist only to annoy and hurt others as part of the inescapable broader social media. Sort of like 10% of the population has psychological issues and one doesn't always know at first glance. It is best to ignore.

Moving on from that, what sort of recommendations I originally hoped to elicit are those from expats from any other country who are already living in France long enough to form opinions about where they live, around the Mediterranean from Montpellier south (or close by). Since Montpellier is a university town I assume there are areas of "student housing" that may not be to the liking of a retirement couple, areas of "marginal" society that may not be appropriate, and areas of "expensive" housing that are not in our budget. My husband and I are progressive thinkers and enjoy lively conversations. Add that to our list of previously posted needs for an apartment that accepts pets, is safe for an older woman walking alone in the evening, restaurants, and all amenities nearby. I may abandon this thread if the well has dried up as there are other forums. I will however, make another post when I return from my upcoming visit and seminar. I realize there are people like me who want to make the move and are still researching, not necessarily posting.

Any English speaking people intending to move to France would benefit from reading Janine Marsh's "My Good Life in France". It isn't that her experience that will match yours, it is how she chooses to live like a local that is instructional. You will be accepted by your neighbors if you live the way she does, and being accepted goes a long way toward contentment.

majgroves
  2/25/2018 18:34 EST

cecilemarie & FlowerFairy,

FlowerFairy:
"there is a lot more to consider when relocating to another country. One can buy a house anywhere. It is the location of that house which is important and the life that goes on around it."

ME: Words well spoken. We do not agree at all with bull fighting but in Nîmes at least not all of the so called “bull fights” are bloody. In many, the game is simply to obtain a ribbon attached to the bull’s head. They use the smaller bulls from the Camargue where the bulls are returned unharmed and eventually retire. In the end, we decided that "there is a lot more to consider" about Nîmes that we liked.

cecilemarie:
"To anyone who injects venom into the discussion..."

ME: Amen! My message was a knee-jerk reaction triggered by a post (that I no longer see) which was so distasteful it hit a nerve. We have two small dogs to consider with our move.

cecilemarie:
"Since Montpellier is a university town I assume there are areas of "student housing" that may not be to the liking of a retirement couple..."

ME: Our sample search for a place in Montpellier turned up with the same conclusion. We found nothing but places suitable for "student housing". But by chance if the seminar you are attending in March is by Renestance, I'm sure they can help with that issue. We are sorry we cannot attend but we subscribe to their newsletters.

Finally, the criteria you list in your posts are very close to ours. And after witnessing a couple of threads in other Forums being high jacked and devolve into bully pulpits, I grew concerned. My apologies if I offended anyone.

Bonne journée et bonne chance.

antifreeze
  2/26/2018 03:13 EST

Have you considered Aix-en-Provence. I’m not sure about the weather, but it’s quite the cosmopolitan little city. True, it’s not on the sea, but the area is beautiful. My wife and I recently moved to Nice. But Aix was one of our Plan B, one of several, I might add. Of the cities in that area, Arles, Nimes, Orange, etc., we gravitated more to Aix.

Antifreeze

gabbyfl
  2/26/2018 05:38 EST

Thanks, antifreeze, for your comments about Aix-en-Provence. I plan to visit there in June 2018 to scope out whether to relocate there or not. Can anyone else who knows Aix comment about it? Perhaps an expat who lives there can respond as to why they chose it - what they like, any drawbacks, etc. Also, any suggestions where a single mid-60's age woman can stay while visiting Aix in June? Appreciate your informed comments. gabby

RubyTooz
  2/26/2018 09:16 EST

Hi there. I've lived in Aix-en-Provence, Marseille, Paris and Montpellier. All very different with their own pros and cons, of course. If you're looking for a progressive, dynamic town in the sun, near the sea, with an active expat community, good travel infrastructure, and plenty of old world charm, plus the possibility of living without a car, Montpellier is the place that ticks all the boxes. The only drawback is the high unemployment, because jobs are very hard to come by...but that's not a problem for a retiree. If anything it keeps the cost of living down.
Aix is similar to Montpellier in that it also has a pedestrian 'old town' city center, roughly the same number of inhabitants (Montpellier numbers include the surrounding towns in the 'metropolitan area'), and it's a university town with a sizable expat population. But that's where the similarities end as far as I'm concerned. Aix is difficult to get around without a car, is much more expensive, is far from the sea (which made it feel stuffy to me), and the main reason I would never live there again...the locals are not welcoming. Even French people I know who've moved there complained about the insular attitudes and cliquishness. This is the opposite in Montpellier, where people are very open to 'foreigners' (including French from other regions) and just friendly in general. I was taken aback when arriving in Montpellier from Paris, because I wasn't used to waiting for the customers and merchants to chat for so long before serving other customers! I realized that the climate makes for sunny dispositions, as well.
Anyway, that's my two centimes on those two cities. Let me know if you want to hear about Paris and Marseille...
Kind regards,
Dennelle

majgroves
  2/26/2018 14:22 EST

Hi Dennelle,

Thanks so much for your last post. It was very informative - especially your comparison of Aix with Montpellier. Though we are currently settled on Nîmes, Montpellier and Sète have long been (and remain) on our list.

cecilemarie said,
"Since Montpellier is a university town I assume there are areas of "student housing" that may not be to the liking of a retirement couple". We were wondering the same thing. Our web search for housing seemed to show nothing but "student housing". Can you shed some light on that?

We will be in the area in Oct.
Ron and Suzanne

traceyspada
  2/26/2018 16:30 EST

Hello Cecilemarie, please do let us know how you get on after your visit in March. My husband and I have our plans in place and plane booked September 1st. We lived in Italy a couple of times and love it and would move there in an instant, but as previously mentioned they get you on taxes..I am British and husband Italian and we are currently in the USA. We decided to move near Beziers and have a furnished rental for 8 months so that gives us time to look, explore and see how places are in the winter. We feel it's a good location also because we can get over to Liguria and to Barcelona. There's a lot of great FB groups for France so I suggest you also look at them as they are very insightful. Hope you gain a lot from your seminar.

RubyTooz
  2/27/2018 03:23 EST

Hi Ron, nice to see you here :-)
If you're looking for an inexpensive, short-term furnished rental in a university town, you may have to compete with students. I doubt your criteria would match what students are looking for, however. Besides the style of the accommodations, students are looking for a nine month lease. It might help if I explain a bit about housing laws and the different kinds of leases available in France.
As with the labor laws in France, the renters (and employees) are very protected - it is difficult to evict or fire someone. Leases for primary residences are governed by the Loi 89 and have many restrictions on the landlord, which is why they are reluctant to rent to anyone who doesn't have a permanent job in France earning at least 3 times the rent. There are 3 types of leases for primary residences: 1 year furnished, 3 yr unfurnished, and 9 month furnished for (verified) students. Landlords in university towns with lots of tourism like to rent to students because this allows them to charge much higher rents during the summer as a vacation rental. If the place is not practical or too expensive for students, sometimes the landlord will offer a long-term seasonal lease during the low season. We know several expats with these types of leases, as well as the expat landlords who rent out their places. You probably won't see these rentals on the usual French sites, because they prefer not to rent to locals. Seasonal leases operate under different conditions - they're actually considered a commercial contract between the renter and landlord - so they do not have the same restrictions as the Loi 89 leases and don't offer the same protections to the renter, as it's not their primary residence, by definition.
Cecilemarie has just gotten a preview of some of the information she'll hear at the seminar on the 23rd, sorry! :-p
Hope that helps and kind regards,
Dennelle

Kathling9
  3/2/2018 07:13 EST

Nimes is lovely!

majgroves
  3/2/2018 19:59 EST

Kathling9,

It's good to hear from you on the forum from time to time. Though we are aiming at Nîmes, Sète is still high on our list of possible places to live. We hope to see you when we visit in Oct. this year.

Ron & Suzanne

emmanamasa
  3/5/2018 23:52 EST

Hello,
In Lyon, you have the 6th arrondissement which is very pretty, very pleasant to live (Metro B).

If you prefer a house, go to Montchat. Real village in the heart of the city. It is one of the few districts of Lyon spared by big buildings while enjoying a real neighborhood life.

Kathling9
  3/16/2018 11:55 EST

Hi Ron and Suzanne,
If you come to Sète, I'll be happy to show you around.
Or we could meet in Montpellier. They have an amazing tram system

Also, I have two French friends here who also have apartments in Montpellier. They like to go there for weekends, late dinners with friends, opera, shopping marathons, without having to drive home to Sète late at night.
I know one couple who has an apartment near the Antigone -- two bedroom with terrace and near the Ecusson. And I have other friends who live in Montpellier.
They don't never mentioned student housing being a problem. Maybe they have some immoblier tips.
Have we talked on FB?
K

antifreeze
  3/16/2018 15:38 EST

My wife and I are both retired and from the San Francsico Bay Area. We live in Nice. Not sure if Nice is a viable candidate, but if you are interested, feel free to contact me.

Antifreeze

antifreeze
  3/16/2018 15:38 EST

My wife and I are both retired and from the San Francsico Bay Area. We live in Nice. Not sure if Nice is a viable candidate, but if you are interested, feel free to contact me.

Antifreeze

majgroves
  3/16/2018 20:27 EST

Hi Kath,

As always, it was great to see your response. Yes, we have talked before but not on FaceBook. The last time we talked was back in December. I will send you a reply through your yahoo email address.

vous parler là-bas!
Ron and Suizanne

photobug
  4/7/2018 21:00 EST

Zhanna,
What is your take on Rennes? We plan to check it out this summer. Thanks.

photobug
  4/7/2018 21:00 EST

Zhanna,
What is your take on Rennes? We plan to check it out this summer. Thanks.

photobug
  4/7/2018 21:03 EST

I can guarantee that the $1 houses in Italy will require more than 25k euro to fix up.

photobug
  4/7/2018 21:05 EST

I would also be interested to know what turned you off to Portugal. We spent three months there, two in Lisbon itself to try it out. We loved it and had a difficult time making the decision on whether to move there or to France.

zhanna2
  4/7/2018 23:04 EST

Unfortunately, I had to cut my visit to Rennes short (to less than 24 hours) because of the air traffic controllers strike (I needed to get out of the country in order to catch my flight from London back to the US). As a result, all I had time to do was wander around the center and the historic area. It's a nice town (wonderful old timbered houses, fascinating history), but small, although there is probably much more in the outskirts that I didn't have time to see. When I told a French friend from Paris that I was considering Rennes, she advised me to go to Nantes instead because it was bigger, with more cultural activities. She then later said that Rennes might be better if I was looking for a house with a yard for my dogs. Someone in a Facebook group (can't recall which) apparently lives in a village outside of Rennes and likes the area, also giving thumbs up to the hospital there. Wish I could be more help but the visit was just too short to come away with any conclusions.

photobug
  9/17/2018 10:32 EST

I participated in this thread before moving to France, and today my husband and I had our OFII appointments and have the requisite sticker in our passports.

We've been in Rennes for two months, and have visited Nantes a few times.

I can say that for us, summer is definitely preferable in Brittany than in the south. It gets hot, but mornings and nights are substantially cooler than the day. For example, one day during the Canicule heat wave in August it was 96 high, but in the low 70s at night. In Nice, on the same day, it was in the high 80s but very humid during the day, and still 84 with 70% humidity at 2am.

Nantes is beautiful, in a great setting with rivers running through it and close to the sea, and has all the hallmarks of a bigger city. More of everything. Real estate is still a bargain, but that's changing fast. The neighborhood near the Jardin des Plantes is particularly nice.

Rennes is very different, not just smaller and even more affordable. It is a bureaucratic center and a bit staid, whereas Nantes as a very important former port has an openness and exuberance the more insular Rennes lacks.

However, both are very pleasant and have their different advantages.

We leave for Nice in early October and will explore SW France including Sete after that.

cecilemarie
  9/19/2018 08:23 EST

Found a home in Sarlat la Caneda, no longer looking. After attending the seminar in March I looked down the coast along the Mediterranean including inland to Carcassonne. Nothing appealed to me so my husband and I went to Sarlat in August and fell in love with the city and Dordogne. We found a reasonably priced home and will be moving in the beginning of 2019. People have said repeatedly that housing in France is smaller than in the US and other than apartments in Paris, we have no idea what they are talking about! Maybe if you lived in a 5,000 square foot McMansion you would think they are small but we found plenty that were too large within our price range. The total square meter to square foot given does not include all the space within the exterior walls as in the US. So, the houses at 200 square meters+ were too large LOL. One home had 7 bedrooms and 2 kitchens! Our home in Sarlat is comparable to our current home with 3 bedrooms, living and dining area, separate kitchen, garage, basement, several outdoor patios, and a large lot. The only item missing is a swimming pool which can be added.

We are in the midst of selling our home in Florida and planning the details of our move with our 4 pets.

Finding a home was the easy part. The process of actually moving is hard.

photobug
  9/19/2018 08:43 EST

so glad for you and your husband! We hear Sarlat is beautiful. I look forward to hearing more after you move in. Question: was it a hassle to execute the purchase? What was involved?

cecilemarie
  9/19/2018 10:55 EST

The process of purchasing a home is similar but different than in the US. There is no MLS and most agencies do not share commissions (do not show other agency properties) so you have to visit multiple real estate companies in person. We found our home through Century21. A photo and description was posted in their window. We had already looked at a number of houses first so a single visit was all it took for us to make a decision. Fortunately, our agent is an English speaking Dutch man who made it fairly easy, even explaining and interpreting documents starting with the Comprimis (offer/agreement). Google translate app helped a lot too. We are paying cash as obtaining a mortgage in France is complicated with many requirements established for all French banks. You cannot get a mortgage past a certain age since they must be paid back by age 70 (retirement age in France is 65) for instance. The LTV is comparable but demonstrated income must be there. Again, when retired this is an issue. Opening a bank account is not the issue everyone says as we opened one with HSBC online from the US. We found it easy enough to wire funds into our French account - something important for the future. Citi bank is the largest Fx bank so you would need to check on the fees your bank charges. I have had a Citi account for many years and happy I kept it.

Once you make an offer and the owners accept it, the inspections, called diagnostics, take place (paid by the owners). Just like the US the inspectors will come up with issues. Inspections cover all utilities. Home owners are required to disclose all issues and these diagnostics give you confidence. The owners are under no obligation to fix/replace/repair/bring up to code anything and this is where negotiations take place. Many items are not truly required for occupancy and people often purchase a home and do nothing. It pays to have a Notaire review all the diagnostics. My husband found an English speaking one from another department who reviewed and explained all of ours for a small fee of 150 euros.

Since we have not yet closed on the house I cannot speak to the rest of the process. If I find time after moving I will post more info.

We located a British company online that arranges for utilities to be transferred the day of closing but we are not sure if we will use them or if our agent will assist us.

Don't give up on things like opening the bank account, looking at properties, or getting through the paperwork. It is daunting but doable. If you are on Facebook, look to join english language French groups. Just keep in mind what is posted by many Brits does not apply to Americans.

markdfink
  9/19/2018 11:24 EST

I hadn't heard of the upper age limit for mortgages in France before, so I'm glad you mentioned it. I found this article that gives some details, as well as options if those age limits present a problem:

https://www.french-property.com/news/money_france/mortgage_older_persons/

Mark

EUBound
  9/19/2018 12:08 EST

markdfink, Thanks for the link. I have been wondering if any countries in the EU offer what in the States we call a "reverse mortgage" which allows older property owners to borrow against the value of their homes and avoid paying interest and principal until either death or until the property is sold.

Although these products had a bad reputation in the States, today they are considered safe investments for banks if properly underwritten.

The link describes a product called mortgage life loan" which appears to be similar. Apparently, not so easy to qualify however as few banks off it and it may not be available to foreigners.

Anyone have any other suggestions for ways to borrow funds for the purchase of a home in France? I am thinking that another option, if you continue to own a home in the States, to take out a home equity loan to use for an all-cash payment in France?

photobug
  9/19/2018 12:14 EST

It is called a "viager" in France and is structured somewhat differently. Basically, someone pays part of your mortgage until you die and they have 100% possession.

photobug
  9/19/2018 12:14 EST

It is called a "viager" in France and is structured somewhat differently. Basically, someone pays part of your mortgage until you die and they have 100% possession.

photobug
  9/19/2018 12:16 EST

Thanks!

EUBound
  9/19/2018 12:19 EST

Yes, photobug, it's called a "prêt viager hypothécaire". But what do you mean about someone paying part of the mortgage until death? Does this type of loan require someone to sponsor the borrower or to guarantee repayment?

photobug
  9/19/2018 12:26 EST

I don't have details, but met a women who had bought flats on the viager all over France as investments.

RubyTooz
  9/19/2018 16:35 EST

The most common viager arrangements you see are where the owners are older and basically sell their equity in the home but keep the usage. These make good investments because the value/selling price of a place is much lower if you can't live in it. When the former owner/habitant dies, the buyer stops paying...so clearly it's a risk as nobody knows how long someone will live.

Dennelle
www.renestance.com

brainrefill
  9/20/2018 10:44 EST

photo bug: the purchase was easy with cash and totally impossible (so far) with a French mortgage. Make sure you have all your documents (original/copies) ready to hand over to complete the 'Compromise de Vente'. Read a blank 'Compromise..' ahead of time so you know what each section is about. Having an English speaking realtor is very handy. Then, read up on all the diagnostics that need to happen immediately, e.g. septique, electrique, gaz, etc. Be aware that the vendeur/seller is NOT responsible for fixing anything and price negotiation after the diagnostics could be tricky. As long as all the diagnostic reports are supplied to you before the 10 day cooling off period you'll be ok. Ask your Notaire for advise on the diagnostics too - they are helpful.

photobug
  9/20/2018 13:38 EST

thanks so much. We're not going to be ready to buy for a couple of years but as you know it's never too soon to start gathering info.

cecilemarie
  10/3/2018 09:38 EST

It is October, 2018 and since my original post I have been to France twice, discovered a lot of places where I do not want to live and finally the place and house where we will be moving in January, 2019. Rather than list what I do not like about a host of cities and towns I simply will say "to each his own". During the seminar I made friends with other attendees who went on to visit some of the same towns I did but with a completely different takeaway LOL.

10 Years ago my husband and I thought Dordogne would suit us and we made a very short trip there as part of a longer trip to Bordeaux in winter. Visiting during all seasons of the year is my recommendation and if you are told there is a "worse" time that is exactly when you should go. We are closing on a house in Sarlat la Caneda after spending 10 days during the busiest tourist time in August. We were able to find realtors available and houses to view in spite of the holidays. The crowds were large but not as bad as Rockefeller Center in NYC at Christmas where we lived for years. Sarlat is tame by comparison. We attended a couple of live performances, visited art galleries, ate foie gras almost daily, walked miles, went to some nearby "attractions", made some local acquaintances, and decided this was exactly what we were looking for.

Definitely purchase a good tour guid to France and the specific region you are interested in. I recommend the "Insight" guides with full color photos and lots of detail. We will be tourists living in the country we wish to tour from our home base so those guides will continue to be used.

One thing we learned while house hunting is that the square meters to square feet does not equate since not all of the space in a home is included. We started out looking at homes 150 to 200 square meters and were surprised by how large they were. Bedrooms are smallish for the most part but nothing we looked at was as tiny as we had been told. Maybe too many Americans live in McMansions?
Our home in Florida is pretty much the same size and the room sizes are almost identical to the one we are purchasing in Sarlat. 3 bedrooms and 2 1/2 baths built on 2 levels on a hillside overlooking the medieval city within walking distance of everything we need and nearly an acre of land. The house is about half the cost of our current home making it an economical move. We found our home listing on the window of the Century 21 agency. You truly need to visit in person and look in the windows of each agency since they do not have MLS and not all homes are posted online.

I have been posting questions and asking others already in France for answers in detail about the physical move. There are a number of Facebook groups I joined and have already received a number of responses.

Moving to France, or any country, is not an easy task and the details can be overwhelming. We are doing this entirely on our own and I now understand why people hire a service like Renestance to get through it all.

Bon chance to all!

EUBound
  10/3/2018 11:31 EST

cecilemarie, congratulations! I suspect planning your move was a full-time job for a long while. I think we share a similar opinion on the kind of house and village I would want to retire to.

One of my concerns though is what happens if you change your mind down the road about where you want to live. I have heard stories that selling a house in France can take a long time. Also, transactions costs are very high. Did you give any consideration to these concerns? It certainly looks like you made a careful decision to buy rather than rent.

photobug
  10/3/2018 12:11 EST

Thanks, again! We are trying Nice for eight months, and while there are things about it I do not like, there is much to appreciate about the setting and how much there is to keep one occupied and entertained. The expense might be something we are not willing to tolerate in the end, but we will see.

photobug
  10/3/2018 12:11 EST

Thanks, again! We are trying Nice for eight months, and while there are things about it I do not like, there is much to appreciate about the setting and how much there is to keep one occupied and entertained. The expense might be something we are not willing to tolerate in the end, but we will see.

cecilemarie
  10/3/2018 17:24 EST

Yes, we did look at the costs of buying versus renting and found the challenges of finding a rental home with land for our animals was difficult. There are also challenges with renting as property owners hesitate since it is difficult to evict. Most rentals are for periods longer than one year so if one decided it was not the right place to be, it would be difficult to get your deposit back and break the lease.

If we change our minds and want to move elsewhere we would bear the costs associated with the sale or we would rent the house out. Sarlat is a tourist destination with many gites, B&Bs, and vacation rentals. Chances are good we would be able to find occupants. The closing costs and commissions are not that onerous in our opinion.

On the other hand, if we sell after a couple years we would likely break even over what we would have paid out for a rental during the same time period.

After moving all over the US and Canada, often living in cities (~ 20 cities) I did not choose to, and learning I could adapt and be happy has made my decision easy. Also, I have been traveling to France for work and pleasure since the 1980's and feel certain about our choice of location. My advice to others is to do your research in advance then make a trip to your choice and stay put for as much time as you can. Stay in a B&B so you are forced to shop and cook for yourself. Visit the stores you would be shopping at. Try the restaurants - are they what you want? Are there enough places and things to do that you enjoy?

bhharrison
  11/7/2018 12:01 EST

Hello, all!! My husband and I have been to France twice now, with our 3rd trip coming up next month! On our previous trips, we were typical tourists and spent some time in Paris, Toulouse, and Barcelona. The majority of our time was focused on Montpellier, though. We're a gay couple in our 40's with a LOT of negative preconceptions about Europe and France and we were so very happy to find how wrong we were. On our trip in March of this year, we attended the Renestance seminar to learn more about moving to the area. Their love for the area was evident and really showed us that this is the place for us.

We've been living in the Atlanta, GA area in the US for 20 years and have never truly felt "at home". In Montpellier however, even though we speak very poor French, we've felt embraced by the city and every person that we've encountered. Jen, Dennelle, and Annette at Renestance have been great sounding boards for our sometimes crazy questions and we're happy to say that we've finally set a target of June 1st, 2019 to be in the Montpellier area permanently. Our plan is to rent for the first year we're there, so that we can really explore the Herault region and decide where we want to purchase.

photobug
  11/7/2018 12:32 EST

Congratulations, and please keep us posted on how you find Montpellier.

photobug
  11/7/2018 12:32 EST

Congratulations, and please keep us posted on how you find Montpellier.

nwrainy
  11/17/2018 01:32 EST

Several posters mentioned a seminar, apparently about looking for housing, or perhaps about figuring out where to live in France? Someone called Denelle appears to know about this, I think. I would like to know more about it. I will be looking at some towns and cities in January and February 2019, and have been reading with interest postings about Nimes, Montpellier, and one or two mentions of Sete and Beziers, which I would like to know more about. I've also read mention of Meze and Pezenas as having English-speaking expat communities, and would like to know more about these communities as well. And if there are any single, retired women who have settled in this region of France, or in the Dordogne, I'd especially like to hear from you, as I, too, am retired and single. Thank you.

nwrainy
  11/17/2018 01:43 EST

Tell me about this Seminar that you and several other people have mentioned, please. - Maia

cecilemarie
  11/17/2018 08:35 EST

You can contact Denelle at Renestance https://www.renestance.com She is the founder of the company and leader of the seminars. They assist people making a move to France. Their next seminar is in April 2019. Information and agenda can be found here or through their website: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/renesting-in-france-seminar-2019-registration-49258216652

cecilemarie
  11/17/2018 08:36 EST

You can contact Denelle at Renestance https://www.renestance.com She is the founder of the company and leader of the seminars. They assist people making a move to France. Their next seminar is in April 2019. Information and agenda can be found here or through their website: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/renesting-in-france-seminar-2019-registration-49258216652

tvfilmproducer
  11/19/2018 14:44 EST

I've been to all the cities you mentioned. There are all nice and somewhat different from each other, Lyon is the best in my opion. It reminds me of Paris, but smaller, of course. Two rivers split the city and the architecture is spectacular. Make sure to visit the old town and hill top cathedral. Lyon also has an international airport. Finally, Lyon is known as the culinary capital of France. Larry

Kathling9
  11/27/2018 08:37 EST

It is my understanding that Renestance is an real estate agent company, rather than a registered relocation company. Is that wrong?
When I searched for relocation companies in France, they did not come up on the lists.

Kathling9
  11/27/2018 08:41 EST

If you come to Montpellier, I’d be happy to meet you and talk about what I’ve learned about the area, I’m not a real estate agent or a relocation specialist, but I’m now in my third year living in nearby Sète and am in Montpellier at least once a week, and I have friends who live there.

Cynannmarie
  12/7/2018 12:56 EST

Hi to all, I am new here. My husband and I are in the process of buying a home in the Dordogne— in the town of Montignac- sur-Vezere. It should close in February. I’d be happy to answer questions about the area and the looking/buying process that we have experienced so far. We will be moving from California sometime later in 2019, although we will visit our Montignac home a few times before that. It should close in February.
Cécilemarie— since Montignac is not far from Sarlat, I was wondering if you would be interested in chatting sometime. I would appreciate any practical tips you could share as you make your move and settle in, as you will be doing that just ahead of us. My main concerns right now are how to set up accounts for utilities, bank account and where to buy a mattress set that can be delivered right away after our arrival. Thanks!

cecilemarie
  12/7/2018 16:00 EST

If you want to hear our experiences you can reach out directly in a private message. For banking we set up an account with HSBC in Paris, then set up an HSBC US bank account. You can do the reverse I am sure. We have learned that French banks do not serve the same purpose nor offer the same services as US banks. Set aside your bank experiences when dealing with a French bank. This applies to HSBC in France as well.

We tried different US banks and learned HSBC offers the best foreign exchange rate and no transfer fees. Additionally, the transfer usually takes place in minutes not days.

like you we need a new mattress upon closing on our house. Our real estate agent assures us we can make the purchase online and they will deliver on a Saturday. We shall see!

frabound
  12/10/2018 13:58 EST

If you have a realtor that you could recommend that would be great.
I will be retiring in the Dordogne in the spring of 2020 and like Montignac very much. Thanks and merci!

frabound
  12/10/2018 13:58 EST

If you have a realtor that you could recommend that would be great.
I will be retiring in the Dordogne in the spring of 2020 and like Montignac very much. Thanks and merci!

Cynannmarie
  12/10/2018 17:06 EST

Hello frabound
I can highly recommend the agent we are working with, Laurent Lebecq at Agence Montignac Lascaux in the center of Montignac. Laurent is French but speaks English well. He is very personable and charming but also extremely professional and experienced and is the co- owner of this local agency. Many agencies are branches of larger corporate groups, Century 21, Leggett, etc but their commissions are a little higher. His contact information is:
Agence Montignac Lascaux
10 Rue du 4 Septembre
24290 Montignac sur Vézère
Tel. 05 53 42 38 85
www. agence-montignac-lascaux.fr

If you contact him please say that his client from Monterey recommended you to him.

We really like Montignac and are buying a property right in the heart of the upper town. We didn’t consider Montignac in our initial searches but came around to appreciating it and fell in love with the charmer that Laurent showed us. I will pm you with more info. Good luck!

john98103
  12/16/2018 14:04 EST

Century 21 et. al. aren't branches - they are franchises.

ellenycparis
  12/16/2018 16:35 EST

Fun to read all your takes on French provincial cities! I'm sorry nobody considers Bordeaux. I love it. There's a great French-American club............
As a native New Yorker expat in Paris (oui, Paris) -- I'm planning someday to compare NYC & P on my blog, esp. re food shopping, But I have 1 comment to share here about food expenses. True, I'm not on FB and don't do a lot of "expat" reading, but this is a basic point that seems rarely shared. Let's say you like to eat at home....
In the U.S. whatever food you buy in bulk, you pay by the lb. (Duh.) But here, MOST bulk purchases are by the kg. So when you see bulk food prices that at a glance, look similar to those at home, you're often getting almost 2x as much. (Of course, you converted the currency, which then raises the price a bit.) But hey, in NY the stores that sell imported cheese almost all price by the *1/4 pound.* Grrrr.
I probably spend more of my budget proportionally on food here...
because of the far greater variety I can buy! (I still pop my organic corn kernels in the microwave.)
Currently, I'm EXCHANGING apartments with a French MD. He found me on a long-term housing site, a lucky break for us both. He wanted to rent from me, I convinced him it's much easier to exchange. It's been just about 2 yrs now, and really smooth going. Our 1BR apts. are so similar, it's funny, HIS is a bit bigger. MINE has an elevator. And thereby hangs a tale. In theory, I love the exercise of walking up to the 5th floor. In practice, it significantly limits my spontaneous sorties. (I've been retired QUITE a while now.)
Next weekend, I'm looking at a word-of-mouth sublet find -- much smaller than my present place, BUT in a livelier hood and NO stairs.
I'll pay rent to sublet (IF my Aussie landlady will accept my cat - remains to be discussed when I see her place) and my French MD will pay me rent. COULD work out nicely... if a couple variables don't break the deal. gonna be a suspenseful week....

ellenycparis
  12/16/2018 16:50 EST

I doubt I could live in a Town, but visited Sarlat -- OFF season -- and loved the look, atmosphere and history. Your house sounds phenomenal. Hope to hear more this spring.

ellenycparis
  12/16/2018 17:19 EST

Before I became an expat, I used to spend a LOT of time in Paris (and visiting elsewhere in France) often exchanging apartments for a few months, then moving to a different exchange for another couple months. I've stayed in 14 of the 20 Paris arrondissements.
Why don't you just *move* there, U.S. friends wanted to know (by that time, I'd been retired for a good bit).
I always answered that I wanted to spend a full year before I making the Decision. I actually needed more like 18 months in Paris, staying in just *one* apartment, to feel sure. I must say the buy vs. rent posts here have been eye-opening. I'll probably take the step of selling my NYC apt. by the end of 2019.... And then....

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