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Is Guatemala Right for Me?

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Shelly74
  5/28/2015 12:50 EST

Hola expats,

Hubby and I are thinking of an overseas early retirement in 2-3 years. We’re just starting the investigation process and I am looking for tips on where to focus. Obviously we’ll visit and spend some time first, but I would like to start narrowing down the list! Here are our priorities:

1. Access to good medical care if the need arises – we both have family history of cancer and heart disease. This includes vet care for the dogs.
2. Safety – want to be able to walk down the streets in our town/city without fear of getting robbed, or having our house broken into every time we leave.
3. Culture/Environment – would like other expats around to start building a base of friends. We like to go to cafes and sit outside and drink wine, or coffee, or whatever. We like a nice restaurant every once in a while.
4. Housing – we have 3 dogs so we will need a house, not an apartment/flat. We’re not extravagant but we’d like a nice place to live. We’d like it to be walkable to a town.
5. Climate – hubby needs a warm climate. Cold and damp are not his friends. I think that takes Cuenca off the list :-(
6. Shopping – while day-to-day shopping would be in the local market, I would like there to be stores within an hour or two where you can buy nice furniture, appliances, household goods, etc.
7. Budget – living comfortably/nicely for about $3,000 USD/month.
8. Legal – hubby uses medical marijuana. Need a place that is tolerant of discreet, personal use.
9. Internet.

A little about us:

I have moved around a lot for work so we don’t have a close friends base. Our parents are deceased, we have no kids, and we can live without seeing extended family on a regular basis. So there’s really nothing keeping us in the US.

My “fantasy” vision of living as an expat means having a nice house with a big porch or deck where we can sit outside, drink coffee, read, hang out, enjoy the view. A pool would be awesome, but I don’t know how realistic that is! Would want to go to town a few times a week to be sociable, sit in a café, people-watch. Make friends to have over for dinner from time-to-time (I love to cook). Have opportunities for part-time volunteer work. Take some road trips. Think “European charm” without the European price tag.

Why am I thinking of leaving the US? Commercialism and media. I am disgusted by billboards everywhere, out-of-control consumerism, political BS and drama, etc. Don’t get me wrong – I like nice stuff! Not a hippie or off-the-grid type! But there’s a happy medium. Christmas is ruined for me…it’s supposed to be a fun holiday to share with family and friends, decorations, etc. but now people start obsessing over Christmas shopping in September. Thanksgiving has been ruined by Christmas shopping which now starts on Thanksgiving instead of “Black Friday”. I’m really just disgusted with American consumerism. We focus on “stuff” and not people/relationships. We work 50-hour weeks to afford all this “stuff” and have no time/energy to enjoy it.

So, after reading this insanely long introduction, please start suggesting places to research further and why. My initial interest is Antigua, Guatemala, or maybe Lake Atitlan (Panajachel?). Also Medellin, Colombia has been recommended.

Thank you!!!

mikee57m
  5/28/2015 15:02 EST

My wife and I moved to guatemala two years ago, ready to go back.
we see dead bodies in the street monthly, the country in general is very dirty, people drive crazy here, terrible accidents on a daily basis, bill boards are everywhere here, and christmas starts in September here too.
We live in San Lucas which is nicer than the city but still dangerous.
The only place that might be right for you is Antigua, but still very dirty, and the poverty here for me is impossible to get used to, I have given hundreds to the poor people in the streets but making a differance with the poor is impossible.
The government is very corrupt here. Seeing men urinate in the street is the norm, they don't even try to cover up. Guate may be right for some people if you can close your eyes to the bad things, I can't.
Good luck

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armandatitlan
  5/28/2015 15:25 EST

HI There

Your description of what you need is very well done. Great job .. as it is important to know what you like before taking off on the journey. I speak for my church.. Panajachel, Lake Atitlan... Great medical care in Guatemala city,for sure top quality. Great vet in Panajachel. Panajachel as a constant growing pool of expat and it is starting to have more cultural events. But if you need more Antigua under 2 hours drive away offers great selection. Climate is the best.. I have been living for 26 years and met countless world traveler that became permanent resident for the weather.. for $ 3,000 per month you can get great quality of life.. any way if you feel PM me as I can share with you my direct experience.. for your information on top of living here I'm a realtor and we just have been on a show for House Hunter International with a couple moving from Sacramento to Guatemala. But that doesn't mean 1000 of people are moving down here just that it is a place getting known

bajasur
  5/28/2015 16:13 EST

My background: retired Banker from Alaska. Have lived in Antigua for 4 years and haven't returned to the US during these 4 years, and have no desire to. Answers by the numbers of your post:
1. Excellent medical and dental services, much cheaper than the US. 2. I feel completely safe in Antigua, however; I don't go out late at night, usually home by 9:00pm. 3. Lots of expats here in Antigua so you'll have no problem hooking up with others. Many, many international restaurants as well as the corner spots. Great coffee, imported wine, etc. 4. Housing with dogs, not a problem, where I live folks have dogs. Most places to walk to are within the center core of Antigua. I use a walking stick, hate the word cane and get around fine. I live 8 blocks from Central Park. 5. Climate is "Eternal Spring" not hot or cold, just right. 6. Antigua has 2 supermercados as well as the Central Market. You can by furniture and other housing needs here in Antigua or an hour away is Guatemala City with Wal Mart, etc. 7. $3,000 as far more than I need. Normally I spend $1,000-$1,500 per month, which includes trips to the lake or the coast for a few days every month. I don't own a car, just use public transportation. 8. While not legal, your husbands medical needs can be met quite easily here, at a greatly reduced cost compared to the US. 9. I've lived in 3 different places here and all have had internet included in the rent. It's fast and secure. I do all my Banking and financial transactions online. Wi-Fi is available in almost every restaurant, etc. Check Craigs List for housing as well as OLX.com.

DebAntigua
  5/28/2015 16:26 EST

Hi there. Our family moved down to Antigua several months ago, and we have some experience being here during mid-November through mid-December (left for Christmas). So while I don't have years and years of experience to share, I DO have Antigua-specific info for you. And based on what you have said, Antigua is going to be your best bet. The lake, while beautiful, is more damp than the highland town of Antigua.

My input on your wish list:

1. Access to good medical care - We live just a couple of blocks from the best-rated expat-friendly hospital in Antigua, and we've (unfortunately) already had cause to use it. If you need serious surgery there are first-world class hospitals in Guatemala City also, just an hour away.

My son got an infection in his leg and had to be taken to the hospital to be treated. Most of the staff spoke good English and he felt comfortable that he was being understood. The hospital not only treated him quickly, it cost a mere pittance of what it would in the USA for an emergency room visit - all of $200, meds included. Then the doctor made house calls each day for a week to give him antiobiotic shots and check on his healing. The cost for all that extra personal care? Under $100.

2. Safety – Antigua is the safest city in Guatemala. There is a special Tourist Police force here that is bilingual and because tourists are a huge part of the economy, the police keep watch better over expats here than elsewhere. You DO have to be careful of where you choose to live, don't walk alone after dark, etc. But your biggest risk is most likely going to be pickpockets, particularly during crowded times like fiestas.

We chose to live in a gated community that has armed guards 24/7 and is only 1 block away from one of the busiest roads in Antigua. We eliminated a lot of beautiful homes during our search because they weren't gated or were too far out. We feel very safe in our neighborhood and feel comfortable leaving the house. Now I've heard stories of corrupted guards and crime occasionally happening inside gated communities, but that's not common. Another safety item that many people overlook is having a trusted housekeeper/maid who is in the house all day. When we leave, our housekeeper is still here so the house is seldom completely unoccupied.

3. Culture/Environment – There are tons of expats in Antigua. Local cafes have expat events, movie nights, etc. You can connect with others pretty easily here.

4. Housing – Having animals will limit you, as a lot of property owners won't rent to tenants with pets. But dogs are more popular than cats here (by far). We have several cats and found it tough to get a nice house that would let us have multiple pets.

As mentioned before, we're just a block away from a major through street of Antigua, so we can walk anywhere. Central park, the supermarket, the local mercado, restaurants, you name it. We don't have a car and get along just great. Only time we have to hire a driver is when we want to go outside of Antigua. In town if you don't want to walk everywhere there are little mini-taxis called tuk-tuks that will take you clear across town for Q15 (about $2 USD).

You mentioned having a pool. That's rare, you aren't going to find it in many rentals. No one seems to care about swimming down here. But don't worry, your other wish - to sit outside and enjoy your coffee - that is one of my absolute favorite things about living here. We rented a traditional Spanish colonial house that has a large indoor courtyard garden, with a fountain. Each morning I sit and enjoy my coffee in my bathrobe, gazing at our private and beautifully maintained garden and flowers, complete with the occasional butterfly and hummingbird visitor. I loved this style of house so much - with the indoor/outdoor living and lush abundant garden with fountain - that I refused to rent a home in any other style.

5. Climate – Antigua's weather is great. Lowest we've seen (December and January) is about 50 at night. Right now it gets down to 60-65 at night. Highest we've seen is 82, but that's only during the hotest months of the year. Most of the daytime highs are low 70's.

6. Shopping – for anything you need beyond the local supermarket and mercado, you can go to Guatemala City in less than an hour. We've bought furniture, bulk groceries, etc. there.

7. Budget – living comfortably/nicely for about $3,000 USD/month.
Yes, two people can do this in Antigua. Rent will be your biggest expense. Antigua is much more expensive than the rest of Guatemala for everything, but the small walkable city, better safety and charm of the town more than make up for it.

Electricity is expensive, but without the need for heating and air conditioning, the bill is still reasonable.

Food varies from "native Guatemalan cheap" to "tourist trap expensive". Having a housekeeper cook for you will save you a ton of money. The housekeeper can negotiate cheaper prices in the mercado than an expat. We routinely feed 6 people for under $30 per day.

8. Legal – hubby uses medical marijuana. Need a place that is tolerant of discreet, personal use.
I think as long as you stick to within your own home, and not in front of any housekeeper or gardener, you should be fine. I'm aware of some neighbors who use it and no one bothers them as long as they are discreet.

9. Internet. Internet is not like you'll get in the USA, but it's ok. The fastest you can get right now in Antigua is 10 Mb down, 1 Mb up. Not a speed demon but respectable. Expect though to pay more than you did in the USA for faster internet. There's little demand for more than 1 Mb here, so the 10 Mb plan is expensive.

Also, be aware that the power does go out for brief periods of time in Antigua (a few minutes), and occasionally the internet goes out as well. The outages are almost always just a few minutes in length, but some outages we've seen have been longer (a few hours).

Regarding the Christmas season - We were staying here in Antigua last year during all but the Christmas week, and can say that while yes, there were some holiday decorations and music, it was nowhere NEAR the commercialism we suffer in the USA. And because Antigua is a world-heritage site, you won't see any billboards all over the place either. Just be prepared to hear lots and lots of fireworks. For some reason, the churches here set off fireworks to celebrate saint's days, holidays, any excuse at all.

Regarding how dirty it is - It's funny, but I was commenting to my husband just the other day that on our first visit to Antigua, I came home with the impression of it being very clean. We even saw someone sweeping the public street during that visit. But now that we've been here a while, I do notice that can be dirty in places. There are some dogs that roam the streets and they do their business where ever they like. I have only seen men relieving themselves in public in Guatemala City. Not to say it doesn't happen in Antigua, but I haven't seen it yet and we do a lot of walking. Again I think the existence of Tourist Police here helps keep that sort of thing to a minimum.

The worst thing about living in Antigua? The cobblestone roads and the sidewalks. They may look pretty in pictures and paintings, but they are hell on your feet and ankles. The roads are bumpy, uneven, often with stones missing or jutting up to trip you. Sidewalks are the same way, sometimes with utility covers missing so there is just a large rectangular hole in the middle of the sidewalk. It's brutal and takes a lot of patience to walk here if your mobility is not the best. Expect to fall occasionally, and always watch where you step, bring a flashlight at night, etc. It's a shame to have to watch your feet when there is so much beauty to see in the buildings and the people around you, but if you don't watch where you are going, you'll end up in a heap!

I'll be happy to answer any other questions you have about Antigua. We love it here and plan to stay at least a few years before we move to another country like Columbia or Costa Rica.

Shelly74
  5/28/2015 17:53 EST

Thank you so much for the thoughtful and detailed replies! I look forward to more feedback. Antigua sounds perfect. Hubby is skeptical!

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Panabud
  5/28/2015 19:01 EST

How about opening your eyes to the good things? For the most part Central America is poor so seeing poverty everywhere is a given. Generally poor countries have trash and sanitation problems also not to mention a greater crime risk. And corruption in these parts is expected. But the good things are eternal spring climate. No snow and no more sweating bullets. A much lower cost of living than first world. More culture, interesting architecture and history. And speaking for Antigua you don't need a car and have foot access to countless restaurants, cafes and amenities. Central park is great for people watching or reading a book. You meet international travelers daily. It's relatively clean in Antigua. I found customer service to be great. These are a few of the good things about living in Guatemala. But it won't compare to first world and having those expectations will lead to disappointment. You may want to consider Colombia. Medellin is very clean and tidy like first world and the people are great.

DebAntigua
  5/29/2015 20:34 EST

I wanted to respond to the comment about the poverty here in Guatemala. It is indeed sad how many people live in serious poverty, often surviving on the equivalent of a few dollars a day. The poster who said he has given out hundreds to the poor on the streets but feels frustrated it's not making a difference is right. Just like handing money to a panhandler in the USA won't change anyone's situation long term, doing it here in Guatemala doesn't really solve anything either.

Handing out money to strangers feels good short term, but to make an actual difference in someone's life takes more effort. Many expats in Antigua volunteer with local organizations that educate youth so they can get better jobs, or support fair trade organizations so Mayan women are paid more for their weaving labor, or help the poor get proper medical care. If you want to make a difference, there are a lot of ways you can here in Antigua, and the people are grateful and appreciative of the help.

Another way is to try to make a difference in just ONE person's life. Many expats, I'm sad to say, do not pay the locals a fair (or legal) wage, but take advantage of the poverty to obtain cheap help. Our housekeeper is a single mom who used to only have a part time job in a deli. We pay her more than the minimum legal wage in Guatemala, full time, plus private medical insurance. We also provide bonuses for holidays like Mother's Day. Today, I took her for her first ever eye exam, as we learned that she was getting headaches from being nearsighted, but she couldn't afford the cost of glasses. We paid for her doctor visit and bought her the frames and lenses she needs. Instead of giving out hundreds to numerous poor on the streets, we've chosen to help raise one hardworking and trustworthy person out of poverty by employing her and helping improve her situation. It's a really good feeling. :)

Guategringo
  5/29/2015 20:41 EST

Deb
I agree with almost everything you said except one thing. Expats not paying locals a fair wage??? WRONG!! I would say percentage wise there are far more expats paying the legal minimum wage or higher to their help than there are Guatemalans... You are WAY off base there.

JGarbarino
  5/29/2015 20:43 EST

Bravo to Deb!

DebAntigua
  5/29/2015 20:44 EST

"Hubby is skeptical" -

It's good to be skeptical! Moving to another country is a HUGE step. I would caution you not to pick anywhere without visiting it for at least a month first. A week or two is not enough, you need enough time to explore, take off your vacationer glasses and see what's it's going to be like to live there. A month will also give you lots of time to see sample rentals at various price points and in different neighborhoods, all with their own pros and cons.

Don't buy an apartment or house, even if you "fall in love" with the location and feel certain you want to retire there. Rent first, for a year or two. That will give you lots of time to get to know the culture, experience a full calendar year of the weather, deal with medical care and all the other little nuances of life. Then if you still love it and don't want to leave, buy if you can afford it and want to stay permanently.

Personally we plan to rent and not ever buy, as we want the freedom to live in Antigua several years, and then head to a new adventure in another country without any problems.

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Panabud
  5/29/2015 23:47 EST

Another option is to move to Antigua and be a good productive guest and not causing any harm nor feeling the need to pander to the locals either. Just be respectful, fair and lead by example.

Make sure wherever you go you are going for the right reasons. Go because you genuinely want to be there and not because you are escaping from somewhere else and choosing the lesser of two evils. There is nothing worse than being around unhappy expats who are just hiding out from their home country until the dust settles there. That's the way it is in most expat colonies.

bajasur
  5/30/2015 10:53 EST

DebAntigua, I also help my housekeeper, a single Mom, 5 kids. Pay her a decent wage, etc. Her house in Ciudad Viejo had a dirt floor and she couldn't afford the Q400 to have cement poured, so helped her out granted a small token but greatly appreciated. Also I have a friend that sells things in Central Park. When I go to Pana for a few days I buy things for her to sell. Usually spend Q150-200 for necklaces, bracelets, scarves, the normal things you see the ladies sell in the park and always something different that you don't normally see in the Park. She turns that Q200 into Q1,000 through her sales. It's another way to help folks, as you do. Thanks for your care and understanding. It isn't always cash that helps.

busman7
  5/30/2015 13:26 EST

I agree with Antigua being the place for you with your list of requirements.

I chose La Libertad El Salvador myself as Antigua was out of my price range for buying property and I didn't need the maor expat scene found there.

To be perfectly safe with the pot use why not check out Uruguay, haven't visited yet but from what I've read think it would also fit your wish list.

Shelly74
  6/1/2015 21:06 EST

Thank you all. We are pursuing Antigua. I'll post some specific questions separately. Thanks again!

ellenbuilder
  6/7/2015 12:45 EST

We moved to Panajachel on Lago de Atitlan 2 years ago and are enjoying the experience daily. I believe that Panajachel will fulfil most of your requirements. You have gotten some very good advice here. For us, Panajachel is the answer. Our biggest complaint here is the noise generated by the Evangelical churches. After we bought our house here, one was built 1 block away. It houses the world's worst Christian rock band. They know 3 songs and play them over and over, but never get any better. It goes on 4-5 days a week. the one good thing is they are finished by 9:30 at night. I could go on about the bombas which terrify even the most street-wise of dogs but in short, Guatemala is a noisy place, if you want to sleep at night, bring ear plugs and you will get along fine.

eagledharma
  4/17/2016 21:39 EST

Been to Uruguay a few times, most recently 2013. Climate wouldn't suit hubby. It can be extreme within a few hours and it faces the south pacific (Montevideo does). There's no snow but the gradient in temp and humidity can change quickly. It's not a difficult climate at all if you don't have respiratory issues but he's on medical marijuana and has asthma related issues, don't go. Medellin would be much kinder on his lungs.

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