Here is my take regardless of your synopsis. Hungary under the current administration is playing a somewhat "isolationist" policy. They play on the BOTH sides of the fence. Both as an EU member and as a "friend" of Putin and who can blame them. If things fall apart indeed in Europe my take is that whomever has less "eggs" in the basket will come out ahead. That of course will not guarantee that Hungary won't suffer because it will but Hungarians will survive. After all if anyone lived under communist rule nearly a half a century learned to "survive". Of course for people like "us" Hungary won't be such a "cost effective" place to live at. Since bureaucracy didn't change all that much in a quarter of century Hungary will just keep on going like the little train puffing "I think I can, I think I can"!

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I am guessing that currently Hungary is a net receiver of EU funds, gradually getting towards being better placed financially, but I really do not know enough.

Please advise.

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Well, in 2013 Hungary received what it contributed that year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/11221427/EU-budget-what-you-need-to-know.html

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Being an American the decision has little influence on me. However, coming from a country with very similar governments (meaning the voters really have no say in anything) I was interested to read that the Queen might just intervene and override any votes to leave the EU. As you have no actual constitution I think within limits she can do things like this. I wouldn't be surprised to see her sack Cameron soon as well. I understand she is beyond angry about the Scottish election which she also would have overridden should it not have gone her way. We have our own, perhaps far worse, troubles like this in the US so I am not being critical.

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Before any new law can be implemented its last theoretical hurdle is that the Queen could refuse to sign it off. Such refusal has not taken place for at least 200 years. Maybe she has other powers such as those that you imply. But she will never attempt to use them. Theoretically she could use any such powers, but to prevent the elected government from carrying out anything that has been voted through The House Of Commons and approved by those silly old sods in The House Of Lords would cause a constitutional uproar. The un-elected House Of Lords gets heavily criticized on the few occasions when it inhibits the passing of that which has been approved by the elected House Of Commons.
Ultimately The Parliament Act can be used by the government to nullify the negative efforts of the House Of Lords for any individual piece of legislation. Thus democracy eventually prevails.

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Borschelrh, if you are living in the EU you would be affected by the UK leaving. The EU would become financially ill, France would be perpetually arguing with Germany about having to pay its legitimate dues and the whole entity could collapse.

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Refusal of Royal Assent is perfectly legal but as you say hasn't been used for a long time. But, at her age, what has she to lose in doing so? I don't see any Constitutional crisis here as it is similar in effect to a Presidential veto in the US whic our Presidents use quite a bit. Although, we have an actual codified constitution which if followed, delineates the process. You don't have a Constitution which makes it far more difficult. The House of Lords is a whole other matter entirely and is an embarrassment, but it remains along with the monarchy and it doesn't look like anyone is serious about changing things soon.

My personal opinion is the voters will not vote for Brexit and it will fail barely. I have no skin in the game but it would be bad for expats as the health insurance would become a problem.

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The impact would be hard to predict for an American living on US dollars in a country which is outside the Eurozone. We already have lost the Schengen privileges of border crossing easily. From my perspective financially it would be neutral, at least in the beginning. If the UK leaves the EU then it might cause a larger problem in Wales and Scotland who might decide to separate from the UK and stay in the EU. The effect of London leaving the EU might be very beneficial (to the rest of the world) as nearly all world's elite do their money laundering through London banks. Capital flight is an enormous problem and the UK (and US as it is equal) government(s) consistently fail to implement any real regulations to control it and in fact do the reverse. Hungary, has arguably a corrupt government, perhaps among the worst in Europe, but I see no replacement coming which might be better. The pressures on Russia from the 5 eyes countries have affected Europe more than Russia so one wonders about the wisdom or true purposes of these economic sanctions. It is my belief that the US and it's pet dog the UK are seriously seeking US hegemony with world dominance and to accomplish this all competitors must be eliminated which includes the EU. The wealth gap is growing and debt slavery is now the norm in the US and growing in Europe. We see the oligarch class everywhere now and it is a rising problem in every country. The voters in the UK are correct in the assumption they are carrying too much of the burden for floating the economies of the weaker countries in Europe. We have a nascent Federalist country (the EU) developing with representatives who aren't elected representing people who have no democracy at all in the larger sense and our taxes are paying for things we have no say in. Greece is just one example of how bad this can get. A relatively minor bank fiasco caused by improper investments by the oligarch class was bailed out by the Greek citizens at an enormous cost. That is on top of the fraud perpetrated to gain entry into the EU in the first place and that fraud was committed by Goldman Sachs who cooked the books. But, instead of letting those bankers who caused the problem pay for it we all have suffered. This story is continuing elsewhere and already in Cypress. Next up will be Portugal and Slovenia. It is a real mess but where it will end up is anyone's guess.

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Quite

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Hello "bor" (wine in Hungarian. Wow and wow! "Hungary, has arguably a corrupt government, perhaps among the worst in Europe," I never thought that I see you saying that. After all he said Hungary was a great place for expats. Or perhaps still is? Even with the 27% AFA/VAT it is still affordable for Americans and can live well on 2K not counting rent! Love to hear your opinion "NOW" as opposed to a year ago! Incidentally I don't disagree with your assessment!

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I have never denied that Hungary has corruption. It has for a very long time now, but under the current administration things seem to have gotten more egregious than acceptable. Hungary us not unique in that regard though, and we still love it here. In a sense it is similar to the corruption at the top like we see in the US or UK. When you think about it there are few, if any, places without this problem. Hungary offers other values but there are problems and it is going to take a major change in direction to undo the damages done. On the other hand, it isn't all bad. Keeping out the immigrants (note I do not recognize them as refugees) was the correct thing to do and set the example which the rest of Europe is slowly accepting as necessary. There should be, and is, open immigration but only to those who qualify and that is not an easy task. Economic misery, while sad, is not grounds for refugee status.

Hungary will get it together eventually but it is going to take time. Should the EU collapse then perhaps Hungary will actually grow. If the trade restrictions and ISO safety standards lifted then a lot of industry can re-open. I do not think EU membership has been beneficial to anyone except the rich.

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Thanks "bor" for your comment and I agree with about 90%. But here is my thing. As one (and you also) who wore the uniform and stood for our Republic's principles I do not despise my "home" country it's many faults. As one who lived in the Hungary for the last 2 1/2 years and buried my father here (without him ever becoming a Hungarian citizen) despite the fact that he was more of a Hungarian patriot than 90% of the Hungarian Parliament, I am very critical of Hungarian leadership. Ethnically I'm Hungarian but I feel very, very far from Hungarians. I so not share their values, philosophy and certainly not their politics. This is funny in fact because my Hungarian relatives are very pro government!
But to the point. If the EU/Shengen becomes a thing of the past Hungary will be the first to openly pledge allegiances to Putin! Why? Because Hungary has not won a war in over 600 years and was always on the wrong side either by misguided honor/allegiance or because just how the wind blew at the time. There is a coming crisis for Europe that already started. A continent that had very many wars as it is still divided in many ways. At this point you will say "but it will come to the US also soon enough...a major recession etc." I agree! We will see something give in the US also but not at the scale Europe will see. I plan to leave as my goals here have no materialized but of course it is a choice to make for each and every one! Those already here could wait and see and possible weather the storm ahead but those considering coming I say "DON'T!"

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Thank you for your perspective. It was helpful to me as an American who has lived in the UK and Netherlands and was thinking of maybe moving to Budapest.

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Peddington, I understand your view of things. Yes, having served in the US military for just shy of 40 years I believe gives one a slightly jaundiced view of the world. I also can see that Hungarians are very different from other Europeans, particularly in their values and interpretations. I think I will never fully comprehend that and will never become Hungarian. It is just too large a stretch. My wife is Russian and she can't figure them out either so it isn't an Eastern European thing. On the other hand I find them to be a very interesting country with a lot of paradoxes. Aligning with Russia makes the best sense. As a trade partner Russia has been Hungary's friend for a long time. But, there is resentment over Russia's involvement in aiding Austria to put down the revolution in 1848. But, there is also the fact that Russia kicked out the Turks before that. Then you have a country which willingly joined Nazi Germany but then turned traitor to them while still hosting their forces so was of course then subjugated. The Russians then view their movement into Hungary as freeing them from German subjugation. Everything has costs and benefits and I suppose these are some simple examples of the paradoxes. Hungarians are in general very spiteful, resentful, and hold grudges for a long time and on top of that are xenophobic but not as bad as the French. The tale of Pushkin's goldfish to me characterizes the typical Hungarian attitude. It is not "I want to have for me" but rather "I want you to not have like I don't have".

The politics here are bizarre at best. Having voter referendums is a nice thing and something I wish the US had as it is one way to over-ride the leadership when they get out of line. The Sunday shopping prohibition which was a very poor decision made just to get a few more coalition votes, which didn't help anyway, is one example. Then the opposition party tried to submit a referendum 3 times and were blocked from doing so by a dumb rule that only one referendum on a subject can be reviewed at a time. The last blockage was using 20 or so skinhead thugs to bar the submission at the door. BUt, perseverance has paid off and finally the referendum is in and will now begin to gather signatures and now it also includes capping salaries for government workers and barring sales of government land and buildings to the plutocrats. So, I see some progress happening here which gives me hope things will improve.

If you look around for alternative places to retire there are drawbacks to all of them. Hungary has great values, excellent work ethics, values the arts and sciences highly, is a beautiful country, has great food and wine, very few ethnic minorities (you can take that as a good thing or bad thing but there it is nonetheless), and a lot of other wonderful and nice things. Balance that with the nearly impossible language, different attitudes and strange politics and you have a very interesting mix. Would it be easier somewhere else, maybe but then again maybe not. We have been here 6 years and I don't regret it at all. But, we live on the lake in a tourist area so everything is tempered by that.

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No place is perfect, there are advantages and disadvantages in any country. About the politicians it's the same everywhere, they are all corrupt (some more than others). Actually in my opinion the politicians in the US are much more corrupt than here. Look at Bush for example, he went to war in Iraq just for money. War is good for weapons companies (the biggest conributors of Bush) and look at the amount the pentegon spent because of this war. Look at all the companies his vice president set up that got all those billion dollar contracts in Iraq from the government (Blackwater ex..).

They bassically looked for a reason to go to war in Iraq (where are all the weapons of mass destruction?!) for the sole purpose of robbing billions of dollars from the US tax payers. As I see it you can't be more corrupt than this. So, compare to them the Hungarian politicians are all saints.

After the US destroyed Iraq Obama decided to pull out. It created a vacum that created ISIS. So bassically by pulling out of Iraq after it was destroyed is what created ISIS. ISIS grew and invaded Syria and other parts in the middle east and it became a war zone...nobody wants to live in a war zone so lets move to Europe...it's close and all it takes is a short sail to greece. Thank the US politicians for making another huge mess.

In my opinion the situation in the US is going to be worse than in Europe because the new elected president is going to be even worse than Bush and Obama. You have someone like Trump (check Trump University on google) and Clinton who is worse in terms of corruption (getting millions of dollars for lectures... today you call it a lecture but in the past it used to be called bribe)....both will do so much damage to the US economy that you can not imagine. So the US is not going to be in a better shape the Europe in anything.

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Nothing new here, WAR has always been good business. Ever since the spear, shield and the sword maker not to mention the producers of food and as of late transportation providers and security WAR = MAKING MONEY! But let's not forget it's smaller or side benefits if you will; thinning out the heard so to speak (after all there has to be some population control) - right? After all why would the World condone genocide, mass famine like in Darfurt and other places. And of course there is the oil. We all condemn it but who does really want to pay $8 a gallon.....oh wait the Europeans...never mind!

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I tend to think that it was a bit crude to look for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

To have weapons of mass destruction all that is needed is to be in charge of enough money to get these weapons flown in within 24 hours. Presumably value for money is constantly increasing, effectively similar to Moore's Law, quite literally more bang for your buck.

Nowadays any tin pot dictator in a country the size of the Isle Of Man effectively has weapons of mass destruction. If such a person knows that he has got aids or cancer he may well decide that he will go out with a bang.

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Rather than talking about Hungary your post was nothing more than a political rant about America. Just shut up. This was not the place for your rant. How did it help anyone wanting to move to Hungary. No don't answer. I am not interested.

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Noahnow, please don't move to Hungary (why do you think I want to help you move to Hungary?!), we don't need somone like you here to polute the environment. Go back to the US, a POS like you belongs there.

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No doubt that any pothead dictator can have a few short range missiles and a "dirty" bomb on short notice for the right price. Suspect that even reputable arms dealers do some of their craft under the radar for the right price!

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peddington, I have no problem with "thinning out the heard". The problem is that because of the mess the US made in the Middle East, the "heard" is moving to Europe (most of it passed Hungary). This is a huge problem to the EU.

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Exactly the problem. Of course, the EU, particularly Germany, UK, and France are also culpable for supporting these insane wars of regime change in the name of big oil resulting in destruction of the ME. I have often thought that refugees should, assuming they are actually real refugees, be apportioned relative to the number of bombs dropped on a given country. If that were the case then the US would have to take nearly all of them.

But, an even larger issue is as Peddington refers to, global overpopulation. This is compounded by shifting and dwindling resources caused by global warming. There are large numbers of humans living in regions that will be depleted of food and water resources, not to mention basics such as employment and education, who are looking at Europe and North America as places with "plenty" and they see it as basic survival to come and take from the rich. If the rich are so stupid as to invite them all the better. But, we have seen that there is also a lot of politics involved and old hatreds have arisen resulting in renewed border walls. This problem will grow and not end so permanent solutions must be implemented. Orban's decision, a rare good decision on his part who is otherwise a very poor example of leadership, to keep out all muslims was the correct one. So, ironically Hungary has been the leader on this subject and the people of Hungary can sit back in relief they aren't dealing with the problems we see in the other european countries with soft hearts who now regret their decisions.

BUt, the real problem is overpopulation and historically this problem is dealt with by nature using natural processes which includes disease and war. Soon, the planet will only be able to sustain roughly 400 million so a large culling is pre-ordained unless the human species deals with this directly which I cannot see happening due to religious concepts. I see Hillary Clinton as one example of where this is heading. She is so dangerous it is unbelievable anyone would willingly consider her as President but the "people" keep electing the worst of the species to be our leaders. It is all heading for a "Perfect Storm". Maybe Hungary will get their heads out of their asses and elect actual leaders who represent the people and not the plutocrats? If so, we might remain relatively unaffected. Under US hegemony the world will end up looking like the Matt Damon movie and relatively soon.

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WAY TO GO "BOR" ! Of course you right on the money as far as Mrs. Oral sex is not sex! The US will be in serious do-do if she get's elected. Of course I'm not so trilled about the rest of the candidates but s they say "an honest man will not run for that office"!

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In 2020 or earlier we will have in charge :-
Russia Putin
USA Trump or Clinton
UK Johnson or Corbyn

North Korea will have the rocket technology to get something very unpleasant to anywhere on the planet. (Of course this delivery method is not necessary. They could just do what Sergeant Wilson did in the exercise on 'Dad's Army', just post it in the normal mail system).

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i found the way this thread evolved fascinating. with a few macro digressions arising to say the least. as someone married to a hungarian who comes back for summer only,(due to working in Middle East) i am surprised the issue of pensions has not been raised. In the hopefully not too distant future we should be back for good. Part of that plan relies on accessing a UK pension. I fear Brexit may damage that. What do others think? I concur with an awful lot of what Bor has written, and ironically we too have a cottage at Lake,are you on the North side i wonder

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As an American living in Hungary, should Brexit actually happen -which I seriously doubt, you would become like us and need a Permanent resident visa, and begin to pay for your medical expenses out of pocket. We are retired and the US (so far) permits us to live anywhere as long as we still file our annual income taxes and ensure the US has access to examine our bank accounts.ninam pretty certain this would be the same for you.

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To throw in my to squids I think GB is doing the right thing. They don't want to be dominated by a European Parliament and I applaud that. But I suspect the EU will play hard ball because there is a lot at stake. They must discourage anyone else like Hungary, Greece or anyone else from leaving! So who is to say! Initially our Brit brothers and sisters will surely take it in the belly and it will hurt but they will recover. Eventually they will be fine! As far as the pension the US for example has signed agreements with Hungary, Romania and others not to double tax pensions. Beyond that I'm not sure what the ramifications would be. I' sure "Bor" will enlighten us and I always enjoy reading his comments! Good luck and God bless!

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In the EU Halls Of Power there would no doubt be perpetual orgasms if Greece did a Leave. After leaving the EU, their debts to Germany would still be valid and still be in Euros. But Greece would no longer be a routine net receiver of EU money.

Here is a Big Conspiracy Theory. The overwhelming number of 'basket cases' that are now in the EU and will be net receivers of money for a long while were all let in by The Real Powers That Be who were thinking very long term. In the very long term a lot of these basket cases could have their economies turned around by circumstances that we may or may not be able to guess at now, such as better democracies / governments, having some kind of natural resources that will be in great demand, better education that enables their populations to become technologically in demand etc, etc.

One example of this in South Africa is Zimbabwe. It has lots of resources that should give it a very healthy economy. It just needs running more democratically, less corruptly and more efficiently. So, 'sell USA*, buy Zimbabwe**',

* Now at the height of its power, cannot get higher.

** Basket case, you cannot lose and there is a lot of potential upside.

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