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Want to move to Italy

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Imodica
  2/5/2014 15:49 EST

My husband & I want to move. Would like his job to obviously send him but then are dragging their feet. Don't think we can afford on his early social security & our savings. How do people do it? We hear of people going all the time. Ideas and suggestions? - PLEASE!

nyctoitalia
  3/1/2014 08:02 EST

Hi. I don't have an answer, but I, too, am looking for information and suggestions on how people move to Italy without the security of job sponsorship. My dream is to move to Italy, I just have to find out how. Good luck to you as well. Ci vediamo in Italia!

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Sergios
  3/1/2014 09:27 EST

I'm waiting until I have a guaranteed pension when I retire next summer. I wished I could have done it earlier but I'm not independently wealthy and I had sons to raise.
If I could give one suggestion to those that have the time, develope a career that is independant of geography.

Enzocchio
  3/1/2014 10:19 EST

Was wondering why ? Share your story

Sergios
  3/1/2014 10:52 EST

Who's story?

Imodica
  3/6/2014 12:16 EST

Enzocchio -
Both my husband and I are tired of the US in general. There are no states that we can honestly say we would move to. I am 57 and my husband is 64. His retirement age next year for social security will bring in the extra $200/mo we need to use to live elsewhere.

We went to Italy the first time in 2010 and of course loved it- as everyone does. Went back in 2012 to see the southern part and loved it even more. We just love the history, the culture, the dolce vita of it all. I hear a great deal of American's moving to Ecuador and places like that and indeed it would be cheaper to live but that is not our type of lifestyle.

We are looking for an adventure at this point in our lives. If we won the lottery tomorrow - we would be gone already. Just have to work out the financial end of things.

So that's our story, went and loved it. My husband's family was from Sicily and we are still trying to work that angle of duel-citizenship.

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Enzocchio
  3/6/2014 12:39 EST

Do you have Skype by chance ? So that we can talk more about you and your husband retiring in Italy Also if you have relatives I living in Sicily there is no problem acquiring your citizenship especially if your husband is from there

Sergios
  3/6/2014 13:10 EST

On the citizenship side of this topic: To get citizenship there are two routes to take, one is to have your existing citizenship recognized and the other is to reacquire a lost citizenship. If your husbands father was an citizen when your husband was born (assuming he was born outside of Italy) then he may still be an Italian citizen. This also works for his father if he was born outside of Italy. In other words if your husbands grandfather was an Italian citizen when your fathers father was born then it follows down. Loss of citizenship is by means of naturalization. So being born before the parent naturalizes is what is needed.
The other route is to reacquire citizenship when you move back to Italy. For a first generation (if you lost your citizenship) then it could be returned within a year of application. Second generation (if your father lost it) then it takes 3 years. Incidentally, mothers come into play after 1947.
Enzocchio, do you have different information? I lost my Italian citizenship when my parents naturalized in the USA. I will be returning this summer to try to reacquire it in Sicily.

Imodica
  3/6/2014 13:16 EST

I don't have Skype right now. We don't have any contact with any relatives that might be living in Sicily. We hired a wonderful lady who has gotten some of the paperwork my husband needs to prove his bloodline. If I remember correctly, he still needs a few more papers. Has his grandfathers birth cert & grandmothers, marriage cert. I believe but I can't remember off hand what he is still required to get.

Enzocchio
  3/6/2014 14:16 EST

Sergio all you have to do is obtain your mother or father birth certificate in the town or city they lived in Italy And live 3 years in Italy and you can apply for your citizenship that's all

Enzocchio
  3/6/2014 14:19 EST

Well if you hired lady she will take care of especially if she's from Italy she know what's need to do if you run into any trouble contact me

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Imodica
  3/6/2014 15:03 EST

I supposed that works only for parents born in Italy but not grandparents, Enzocchio?

The lady who is assisting in getting the papers doesn't speak English so we are having a little difficulty but Google is great for translation (I hope) and that is how we are doing everything.

Hope to hear in the next few weeks if my husbands business (golf) will send him over there to sell for them. With a salary, it will be much easier for us to go. Again, without..... we are still trying to figure out costs.

Thank you both. You have been great to hear from!!!

whidden39
  3/6/2014 17:27 EST

Sergio: You mentioned the 1947 date -- the year my brother was born. I was born after 1947 and I have dual citizenship, but my brother doesn't qualify. I qualified through my mother's father. I've always been curious about what changed to produce this cutoff date.

Sergios
  3/6/2014 18:57 EST

Women became people in Italy in 1947. There was a law change that Year. These arbitrary laws are ridiculous. If I was born after 1990 I would have retained my citizenship but since I wasn't, I lost it. Same with your brother. It could have come down to a matter of minutes but it would make no difference. The law is the law. Ridiculous.

maluza86
  3/6/2014 19:04 EST

I don’t think one loses their citizenship due to naturalization. My wife was naturalized in the US in 1972, she remains a US and Italian Citizen to this day. In fact, the only way she would lose her Italian citizenship is to officially renounce it, which she never did.On a separate note, I am renting a fully furnished apartment in San Vito Dei Normanni, Puglia Region, 10Km from the beach for only four hundred euro a month. It is a very nice city in Southern Italy. It would be a great place to start your Italian journey.

Enzocchio
  3/6/2014 19:41 EST

MaluzA puglia I heard is a beautiful place so do you live there? Going to be doing business there sometime in the near future. Definitely don't want to renounce your citizenship

maluza86
  3/6/2014 19:51 EST

Yes, my wife and I moved back to Italy 1 month ago. We live in San Vito Dei Normanni, where we met 21 years ago at San Vito Air Station, which has since been shuttered.

We have two boys living in San Vito with their wives...and 2 grandsons with another on the way.

What kind of business and when will you be there, would be great to meet up for a cappuccino!

Sergios
  3/6/2014 19:53 EST

Sorry but before 1990 italy did not allow dual citizenship other than in very specific cases. Therefore, naturalization was a defacto renunciation of citizenship. There must have been extenuating circumstances in your wife's case.
The specific cases referred to above is when a child is born in a country that recognizes citizenship by location (USA) to an Italian citizen. Since italy recognizes citizenship by blood, the child has dual citizenship. That is how so many Americans are able to claim their Italian citizenship.
In my case, I was born an Italian citizen and lost it when my parents naturalized before I was 18 years old. If they had waited until I was 18, then I would have had a choice.

maluza86
  3/6/2014 19:58 EST

I understand, just wanted to clarify the statement that one lost their citizenship by naturalization. My wife was born in Italy to an Italian mother. She never knew her blood father and was adopted and naturalized by her Italian Mother's American Husband in 1972. She did not lose her citizenship by naturalization.

Sergios
  3/6/2014 20:09 EST

Did she actually naturalize? Go through the process or did she become an American citizen by means of adoption by an American? There is a difference.

Enzocchio
  3/7/2014 05:58 EST

I am sorry am. confused ? Any ways I also speak italian and can translate

Enzocchio
  3/7/2014 06:05 EST

Maluza thats fine as long she Was Born in Italy and her mother was italian she will obtain her citizenship easily vise versa e persone non born or not a nationality she will obtain easily how ever there s a lot of foot work going there to obtain it. That we're I am specialized

maluza86
  3/7/2014 12:29 EST

My wife already has her "carta di Identita" and is only updating her residence info. I am in the process of acquiring my soggiorno, I am not looking to become a dual citizen, just a resident. Once I get my soggiorno I will apply for my Italian Cara di Identita. To get the soggiorno I had to go to the Questura in Brindisi, get fingerprinted, photographed etc. I also had to prove a form of income so I do not become a burden to the Italian government. Fortunately, for me, showing a copy of my military retirement was sufficient. Having an Italian/American wife, who speaks both languages to a "T" without any accents helps the situation immensely. I will then get my Certificate of Residency. Again, for me, since my wife is a dual citizen, with those documents and not becoming an actual Italian Citizen, I will also have access to Italian medical care, should I choose to use it.

There is a lot of good information on the US Embassy Website:

http://italy.usembassy.gov/acs/general-visiting.html

Here is a snapshot of some info to help those contemplating moving to, and living in Italy:

Resident

Americans staying in Italy for more than three (3) months are considered residents. This includes Americans who will work or transact business and persons who want to simply live in Italy.

Americans must have an entrance visa which should be obtained at an Italian consulate before coming to Italy, in order to remain in Italy more than three months and gain resident status. This procedure will take several weeks to complete so it is advisable to apply well in advance of the departure date. The visa will be granted only for the time indicated on the application. Americans already in Italy without a visa will have to leave Italy to obtain one before they will be able to gain resident status.

Upon arrival in Italy, the American must obtain a permesso di soggiorno (permit of stay). As of December 11, 2006, an application "kit" for the permesso di soggiorno may be requested from one of 14,000 national post offices (Poste Italiane). The kit must then be returned to one of 5,332 designated Post Office acceptance locations. It is important that applicants keep a copy of the receipt issued by the Post Office. Additional information may be obtained from an Italian immigration website via Internet at: http://www.portaleimmigrazione.it. Within 20 days of receiving the permit to stay in Italy, Americans must go to the local Vital Statistics Bureau, Anagrafe of the Comune, to apply for residency. It generally takes one to two months to receive the certificate of residence (Certificato di Residenza).

In addition, as of March 10, 2012, under Italian law (Presidential Decree no. 179 of September 14, 2011) all American citizens who request an Italian permit of stay for more than 12 months are required to sign an “integration agreement” (accordo di integrazione) at the local prefecture (sportello unico per l’immigrazione) or at the provincial police headquarters (questura). By signing this agreement, Americans are compelled to achieve specific integration goals (e.g. acquire an adequate knowledge of the Italian language, of the Italian civil structure and culture) and accumulate a total of thirty credits. Simply signing the agreement will secure the first sixteen points. The remaining fourteen points must be earned over the next two years by taking classes or passing a test in the Italian language, on the civil structure and culture, and by successfully completing a variety of other requirements. Failure to complete the integration agreement with the required credits is punishable by expulsion from Italy. Additional information may be obtained from the Italian Ministry of Interior’s website at http://www.interno.it/mininterno/export/sites/default/en/sezioni/sala_stampa/notizie/news/09918_2012_03_12_integration_agreement.html

If the American wishes to relinquish Italian residency, he/she must apply at the Anagrafe for cancellation of residence and get a written statement that will allow them to take household goods out of Italy without difficulty and without the assessment of taxes after departure.

A motor vehicle may be imported duty-free within six months of receiving the certificate of residence from the Anagrafe and if owned for a period more than one year. Imported vehicles must be registered and Italian license plates obtained. For more detailed information, contact the vehicle registration office, Pubblico Registro Automobilistico (PRA).
Household goods may be imported duty free within six months of receiving the certificate of residence from the Anagrafe. An experienced and reliable shipping agent can simplify customs-free importation of household effects.

While in Italy, lost/stolen items should be reported to the local police and to the U.S. Consulate.
If the following documents are lost, replacements should be obtained from the offices indicated:

Permission to Stay (Permesso di Soggiorno) -from- Police Department (Questura)
Residence Permit (Certificato di Residenza) -from- Vital Statistics (Anagrafe)
Motor vehicle documents registered in Italy -from- Ispettorato della Motorizzazione Civile and Italian Automobile Club (ACI)
Passport or other identification issued by the U.S. Government -from- U.S. Consulate General

Sergios
  3/7/2014 13:35 EST

Thank you for this information. It's very useful.

Sergios
  3/7/2014 13:36 EST

Thank you for this information. It's very useful.

Imodica
  3/7/2014 14:22 EST

Hoping to find out within 2 weeks if my husbands work will send him to Italy. I can't wait. Thanks everyone. I want this adventure so badly.

Enzocchio
  3/7/2014 15:16 EST

Lucky man I wish my work would send me to Italy I would love it get paid and be in Italy my dream

maluza86
  3/7/2014 15:49 EST

I am enjoying living in Southern Italy. If anyone needs any assistance that I can provide being in Italy already, don't hesitate to ask. I don't have all the answers, but between my wife and I, we can surely find them!!

And remember for those of you who have only vacationed in Italy a couple of times, it is a lot different once you actually live here. Not better or worse than the US, just different culturally. There are some good (pretty funny) blogs here about culture shock, I recommend everyone contemplating the move read them.

As I said, I am lucky, my wife, and two older boys (Stepson's) are dual citizens and speak english and italian fluently. The kids have been back at least 12 years so they know the ins and outs of living (and working) here. My wife was born in Italy, lived here until she was 10, then moved to the States with her parents, then returned when she was 19. She stayed for 10 for 15 years until we met and got married, then left for 20 years...and now back!

Keep your dreams alive!!

Ciao,

maluza86
  3/17/2014 12:52 EST

Got my soggiorno!! Wow, after countless hours and three trips to the Questura, including finger prints and photos, I took my 16 Euro stamp (bollo) to the Questura yesterday. Amazing 10 minutes in line, all paperwork was ready and I now have my soggiorno. On to the certificate of residence then the carta d'identita!!

SarahBeauchamp
  3/17/2014 13:31 EST

Please, please, tell me what that means! I am in constant contact with the Detroit consulate. Despite my pasting the language from the Embassy website and sending it to them, they tell me that I can either stay 90 days or less OR have a lease before I go. I have foreign family members with residency permits, so it looks like I qualify.

maluza86
  3/17/2014 13:49 EST

A soggiorno is a permit of stay. Without one you are a tourist. A soggiorno allows you to stay in the country legally after the 90 days. You are supposed to apply for one within the first week of arriving in country and it takes up to 30 days to process.

Here is the official language (read below for the unofficial):

Americans staying in Italy for more than three (3) months are considered residents. This includes Americans who will work or transact business and persons who want to simply live in Italy.

Americans must have an entrance visa which should be obtained at an Italian consulate before coming to Italy, in order to remain in Italy more than three months and gain resident status. This procedure will take several weeks to complete so it is advisable to apply well in advance of the departure date. The visa will be granted only for the time indicated on the application. Americans already in Italy without a visa will have to leave Italy to obtain one before they will be able to gain resident status.

Upon arrival in Italy, the American must obtain a permesso di soggiorno (permit of stay). As of December 11, 2006, an application "kit" for the permesso di soggiorno may be requested from one of 14,000 national post offices (Poste Italiane). The kit must then be returned to one of 5,332 designated Post Office acceptance locations. It is important that applicants keep a copy of the receipt issued by the Post Office. Additional information may be obtained from an Italian immigration website via Internet at: http://www.portaleimmigrazione.it. Within 20 days of receiving the permit to stay in Italy, Americans must go to the local Vital Statistics Bureau, Anagrafe of the Comune, to apply for residency. It generally takes one to two months to receive the certificate of residence (Certificato di Residenza).

Here is what I did:-) No visa. My wife is a dual citizen and has a carta d'identita. Her parents are residents as are two children. We went to the questura the first week and I filled out all the info for a "soggiorno". Basically she is my sponsor. She signed, I had to prove income as to not become a burden on the Italian government. I showed a copy of my military retirement and disability pay...got fingerprinted, photo's...went back 30 days later, paid my 16 Euro bolo, signed my soggiorno and as they say here...basta, finito!

SarahBeauchamp
  3/17/2014 14:10 EST

My Consul says that I must apply before I leave the US. He also states that I need a lease. I have family with whom I could live, who have signed documents as such, but they, too are foreigners, and apparently I can't stay more than 90 days without obtaining a lease in advance.
As I had planned to travel, it is becoming impossible.
Thanks for your input. I think that the fact that there is no Italian bloodline removes me from luck.
However, if I can apply after arrival, that would be perfect.
Does anyone have a rule that I could use to demonstrate that?

Sergios
  3/17/2014 16:36 EST

Can't your relatives set up a lease for you? Perhaps at a vacation rental that can be renewed month by month. Once you're there then you can make different arraignments.
Rules are rules with the consulate. They are very inflexible.

whidden39
  3/17/2014 20:50 EST

Congrats, Maluza! Will you also need a codice fiscal?

maluza86
  3/18/2014 03:17 EST

Yes, that is next on the list...different document, different town! The questura is in Brindisi, to get my codice fiscale i have to go to the Anagrafe, which is in Ostuni, after that to get my Italian carta d'identita at the commune in San Vito....

However, unlike you, i am not becoming a dual citizen as it will affect my contract work at this time. Since you are already a dual citizen, as my wife is, you don't need a soggiorno as that is a permit for non-citizens to stay.

maluza86
  3/18/2014 05:56 EST

I should clarify...I don't need to get any other documentation to live here legally, as that is what the soggiorno is for. However, to use the Italian social medical system I will need a codice fiscale and carta d'identita. Also my soggiorno does not allow me to work in Italy...that's a whole other beauractratic process!

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