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obstacles to retiring in Italy

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Ewoodoff
  3/17/2015 09:00 EST

Hi All,
I have been hearing that's it's very difficult to get the necessary visa/permission to retire in Italy (we don't have Italian blood). The Italian consulate wrote back to an inquiry of mine about the amount of income necessary to prove - $4000 per month per person. That would mean my husband and I would have to show an income of $8000 a month! This doesn't seem reasonable - is this really adhered to? We would both be retire age and with enough income but not nearly that much. Does anyone have advice?

Jergirl
  3/17/2015 10:43 EST

Wow, that does sound like a lot. I guess if you were renting, you would need more than if you owned a house. I would also like to to hear about this.

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maluza86
  3/17/2015 11:28 EST

If you scroll back a few pages you will find a post on Italian Citizenship that provides a wealth of information.

It is not that difficult to obtain residency in Italy so be persistent. What I've found on these posts, especially from those that have not gone through either process is confusion between "residency" requirements and "citizenship" requirements. As I've posted previously I am a permanent resident but not a citizen.

What I don't understand is the "misinformation" put forth by the Italian consulate...or misunderstanding.

Regardless please read below:

http--www.understandingitaly.com-living-content-residency.html


I provided a copy of my military retirement statement when I filed my paperwork for my Soggiorno at the Questura in Brindisi. You have to show that you will "not become a burden to the Italian Government". The actual amount has been brought into question on this forum many times and it seems even within the Italian beuractratic system there are numerous inconsistencies, however the amount required is no where near the amount you were quoted!

http://www.interno.gov.it/mininterno/export/sites/default/en/sezioni/sala_stampa/notizie/news/09918_2012_03_12_integration_agreement.html

http://img.poliziadistato.it/docs/0554_initaliainregola_English.pdf

Accordingly to become a long term EC Resident you need to show an:
Annual income equal to the amount of the ANNUAL Italian social
security benefit which was €5,061.68 in 2007, so it’s probably increased a little bit for 2014, but not much.
That's ANNUAL income, not PER MONTH.

Also with the € trading at $1.04 and headed towards parity its a lot easier and a great time to make the move!!

Please let me know if you need any further information or if I can be of any assistance.

Regards

Jergirl
  3/17/2015 15:09 EST

encouraging. sorry for getting off-topic but I can't help wondering how Italian social security benefits are so low.

Enzocchio
  3/17/2015 15:14 EST

Just move to Italy they can't tell you to leave and every thing is slow there anyways if you need more help let me know

maluza86
  3/17/2015 15:48 EST

It's considered the "minimum Social allowance".

http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/empl_portal/SSRinEU/Your%20social%20security%20rights%20in%20Italy_en.pdf


http://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/view/10723/

We've found something's are more expensive but many are a lot cheaper...especially TV/Satellite, Internet and cellphone. Stateside we were paying $240 for three cell phones on a family plan, $100+ for satellite TV, another $100+ for Internet and phone roughly $500 total. Here we pay $25 for better cellphone plans for 2 phones and $50 for Sky Satellite, home phone and high speed internet 12Mbs....

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detulliolaw
  3/18/2015 04:42 EST

The visa for elective residence allows access to Italy, with an aim to reside, for foreigners intending to settle in our country and who are able to autonomously subsidise themselves, without carrying out any work activity (Article 13 of Attachment A of the interministerial Decree MAE n°850 from 2011, regarding the definition of the typologies of entrance visas and the necessary requirements in order to obtain them).
To such end, the foreigner will have to provide adequate and documented warranties about the availability of a dwelling to be elected as his/her own place of residence, as well as vast financial resources. Such resources, which should not be inferior to 31,000 euros a year (i.e. triple yearly amount as opposed to the amount estimated in chart A attached to the directive issued by the Ministry of Internal Affairs on March 1st 2000, reporting the means of sustenance needed for the access and the residence of foreigners in the State’s territory), will have to derive from the entitlement to substantial incomes (i.e. pensions, life annuities), from the possession of real estate properties, from the entitlement to stable economic-commercial activities or from other sources which are different from subordinate employment.
The same visa will be issued to the cohabiting spouse, as well as to cohabiting underage and adult dependent children, providing that the aforementioned financial resources are deemed as adequate for them too. Furthermore, if the visa is requred for the spouse as well, the total amount of the monthly incomes will have to increase by 20%. Such increase will be of at least 5% for every child that the visa was requested for.
The Embassy and the Consulates, providing that a dwelling property is purchased in Italy, will proceed by applying the “minimal financial requirement” as provided by the italian regulation (about 31,000 euros a year). In other cases, in compliance with such regulation, the assessment on the effectiveness of these requirements is entirely left to the discretion of the Embassy.
The duration of the issued visa for Elective Residence will be of 1 year and the visa will be renewable at the competent police headquarters providing that the original requirements are still valid. The entrance visa will have to be converted into a residency permit within 8 days from the arrival to Italy, as for all other typologies of long-lasting visas. Such residency permit cannot be renewed or postponed if the foreigner turns out to have interrupted his/her stay in Italy for a period lasting longer than six months, except if such interrubtion was due to the necessity of abiding by military duties or other significant and substantiated motivations.
With this typology of visa it will never be possible to carry out any work activity in Italy.
It is necessary to inform that, after 5 years, it is possible to request an EC permit of residency for long-term stayers which has permanent validity and allows its holder to benefit from a treatment which is subtantially equal to the one granted to the citizens of the EU member countries.

De Tullio Law Firm

Sergios
  3/18/2015 04:56 EST

Thank you De Tullio Law Firm.

maluza86
  3/18/2015 05:36 EST

Thank you detullio Law Firm for the "legal" document. But it seems neither the consulates, embassies or local questura follow or know of the exact monetary requirements. Even this document uses wording such as "should not be inferior" etc, which leaves a huge area open for interpretation.

From your perspective, what monetary requirements have you seen required to put forth?

In Southern Italy, talking with numerous Bristish and US expats I have seen A lot less.

detulliolaw
  3/18/2015 06:43 EST

There is a discretionary element in the judgement of the financial requirements. However, please be aware that there is a substantial difference between the position of EU citizens and non EU citizens.
In general terms, elective domicile is accorded to high income non EU citiziens.
For what concerns EU citizens, resident permit will be accorded if they can prove to have sufficient financial means to support themselves while they are in the Italian territory together with a private health insurance.
This means that financial requirements for EU citizens are substantially less.

De Tullio Law Firm

Sergios
  3/19/2015 01:15 EST

What about the middle ground? Former Italian citizens that intend to require their citizenship through residency?

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Sergios
  3/19/2015 01:18 EST

Sorry. Re- aquire citizenship

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