raymoisa
12/7/2016 13:50 EST
omg. i just realized i may have broken the law. i thought i could come to italy from the u.s. for up to 90 days per visit.
but since january 1 i have come to italy several times, totaling more than 110 days at least and counting. i an in italy now, and i plan to leave in a few days and return for new year's but will they allow me to come in?
does anyone know the law on this? or the fine? or what they will do when i show up in rome on my next return?
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raymoisa
12/7/2016 13:54 EST
me again. to clarify, i heard recently that the rule is that u.s. tourists can visit for up to 90 days out of every 180 days, but i thought we could visit for up to 90 days, period.
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DoppioCittadino
12/7/2016 14:01 EST
Try this tool http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/border-crossing/schengen_calculator_en.html
Enter dates as ddmmyy (March 1, 2016 would be entered as 010316) and then click the Calculate button.
If you do overstay, first, try not to get caught, second plead ignorance, third hope that you do not get banished for 10 years.
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raymoisa
12/7/2016 14:21 EST
does anyone know what i may be fined if i try to enter italy in excess of the 90-day rule? has anyone out there been in this situation?
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DoppioCittadino
12/7/2016 14:30 EST
Do not even *try* to enter Italy if you know you are outside the 90/180 rule as you will most likely be turned away at passport control.
Fines and banishment: http://www.euro-dollar-currency.com/overstaying_schengen_visa.htm
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/fines-for-overstaying-in-schengen-and-for-how-many-days-of-limit-exceeded
This site says a 20-day overstay can result in a €700 fine: http://psimonmyway.com/the-consequences-of-having-an-overstaying-schengen-visa/
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OldPro
12/10/2016 11:46 EST
Raymoisa, there is ONE out here.
You say since January you have spent 110 days at least. Since January doesn't matter. It is in any 180 calendar days that matters. So you count backwards from now and see how many days you have been in the country in the LAST 180 days. That tells you if you are OK at present. As for returning for new year's, the same thing. Count backwards from the date you would then plan to LEAVE on and if you will have been in the country for less than 90 in the 180 you are OK.
But if not, that you did not know the rule means nothing. It is your responsibility to know that what you do in anything is legal.
You say you are IN Italy now and will leave soon. You need to worry about what will happen when you try to LEAVE if it will be more than 90 in the 180, never mind if you try to ENTER again.
You ask about the fine in a way that seems to indicate you think that if the fine isn't too much, you could maybe just pay it and carry on. If you get caught, that is NOT going to happen.
There are a couple of possible scenarios.
1. You exit without being stopped. All good if you stay out for 90 days or more from ALL of the Schengen countries combined. This is not just about Italy.
2. You are caught trying to exit after having exceeded the 90 day rule. Several things can happen at this point. You can just be given a slap on the wrist and a note put on their computer that will flag your passport next time. OR you get fined and a note put on the computer. If you get fined, chances are that will also mean you will miss your flight. Buying a new ticket will be up to you.
3. You try to re-enter for new year's within the 180 days having used up your 90 days. Again, either you will get caught or you will not. If not, you still have the potential to be caught when you leave again.
If you get caught TRYING to enter, you may or may not be fined but you will NOT be allowed to enter. There will be no if/and/or buts to that, you will NOT be allowed to enter. So the fine is simply the 'icing on the cake' in that case. So there is little point to asking about the fine. That will be the least of your worries.
Finally, IF they catch you entering or exiting and IF they believe you have KNOWINGLY overstayed, they CAN if they choose declare you 'Persona Non Grata' in ALL of the Schengen countries combined for 7 years.
The Schengen Rule does NOT require them to prove you knowingly overstayed, it requires YOU to prove you have not overstayed. They just have to suspect you of overstaying and ask you to prove you have not. The penalty they decide to impose depends on how they perceive your intent.
So I would suggest you think about this. FIRST do the actual calculation to determine if you are currently breaking the rule of 90 in the last 180 days. If you're over, you will have to worry about exiting.
My advice to you is to realize that what YOU want is irrelevant. You need to comply with the rule whether you like it or not.
Regarding returning for new year's, do the calculation again to see if you will be over the 90 in 180 counting backwards from when you plan to LEAVE again.
Trying to plead, 'I didn't know' as one poster suggested, won't wash when the agent sees you are nervous, etc. They do this all day, every day and can generally tell when someone is lying unless you are a very good liar. PRETENDING you didn't know and them realizing you are lying, will get you dealt with more harshly than telling the truth. Telling the truth is always the best way to go.
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Sergios
12/11/2016 02:22 EST
Listen to Old Pro on this. In my case I entered Italy on a tourist visa in March of 2015 and stayed three months. I did not have a non tourist visa but I knew I would eventually get my citizenship. During that three months I did nothing about my citizenship or permesso di soggiorno. I was an extended stay touris. I went back to the USA because I had an appointment at the Italian consulates (which turned out to be a total waist of time and money, but that is another story.) Then my wife and I returned to Italy two weeks later without a visa. No problems, no questions, no issues. For us it would not have mattered if we were caught because what I did learn at the consulate was that I, because I at the time was a "former" Italian citizen, had the right to enter Italy, without a visa, to reaquire my citizenship. However I was never asked by an agent. There are two points here. First is that you may not be caught but why take the risk. Second, if your intention is to move to Italy to reaquire your citizenship, then you have the right to enter Italy without a permanent visa.
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