If you stay in Italy for longer than 7 days (if I recall correctly), you are required to declare your presence. If you are in a hotel, the hotel handles the declaration on your behalf, otherwise it is incumbent upon you to do so.

This might help: http://www.esteri.it/mae/en/ministero/servizi/stranieri/ingressosoggiornoinitalia/soggiorno_stranieri_in_italia.html

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Yes I found that afterwards but read what it says: Aliens coming from countries that do not apply the Schengen Convention the obligation to make a declaration of presence is satisfied through application of the USV sticker on the travel document at the moment of border control."

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Oh you are serious trouble. The Italian secret police are going to kidnap you and your family in the middle of the night and brought to an Italian black site for torture and interrogation. It really is no big deal. Almost nobody does it. If they find out, the police, if they are particularly angry, may shrug their shoulders and tell you not to do it again. The only way that this can affect you is if it is associated with a crime. If you rob a bank they may add the immigration charge to it. In other words, don't be too upset over this. It's no biggie.

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I have never heard of that. I usually rent a house for a month every summer and its through a private person. Too expensive to stay in a hotel with 5 kids.

However, when I flew to Puglia on my own this fall to look at properties they stopped me after I collected my luggage and demanded to know how much money I had and where I was staying....

Had to give them my angry black girl scowl......:)))

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Jergirl,

I think the difference is in whether you enter Italy directly (from outside Schengen) or from another Schengen country and the reson being that one way you go through Italian passport control and the other way you do not.

If you fly first into France, for example, and then on to Italy, you never present your passport to an Italian border control agent and thus no stamp whereas if you fly directly from the US to Italy, you *do* (well, you *might*) get that stamp.

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Choosing an expat health insurance provider is an important decision. Get a quote from our trusted expat health insurance partner, CIGNA. With Cigna Global Health Options, you can create an international health insurance plan that's perfectly tailored for the needs of you and your family.

At the consulate they told us the rule. But also said. But nobody does it. So.....

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Yes, that makes perfect sense, DoppioCittadino. Too bad it was not so clear. So this is another factor when trying to find flights. Sometimes I fly through Athens. There should be a possibility of claiming your presence when you enter Italy, even if you are coming from a Schengen country. (I was thinking "coming from" meant where my citizenship is.)

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Great question Jergirl - I have a similar question - is registration required for Italian (dual) citizens? I may decide to rent month to month initially, rather than opting for a long term lease.

Thanks!

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Teresa,

As an Italian citizen, you have to have a registered place of residence. Right now, your consulate has you listed in their AIRE (Registry of Italians Residing Abroad) database. If you move within the US, you are legally required to notify your current consulate (and your new consulate if you move to another jurisdiction) so that the AIRE can be updated.

If you move to Italy and obtain residenza, you will automatically be stricken from your former consulate's AIRE and instead be listed in the comune in which you are now legally resident.

The problem you will have as you described your plan is that you will not be able to apply for and obtain residenza status. And, without residenza, one really big problem is that you will not be able to join SSN (national healthcare).

It's not as bad as it sounds, but a far from perfect situation. If you plan to stay in Italy, you really need to establish residency in relatively quick order.

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Hi DoppioCittadino,

Thanks for the clarification. My earnings have been quite low while recovering from Lyme these last couple of years, and thus am receiving Medicaid as insurance through the Health Exchange. Once I establish residency in Italy, I will lose my insurance in the U.S.- no worries about that, as long as I can establish residency in Italy. (I have some either health issues I need to keep an eye on, so having health coverage is important to me). It seems a bit of a conundrum. I have some savings, and from what I've read, there may be other requirements I need to meet in order to be approved for residency (e.g. - am I working and my reason for relocating are two questions I've been told will /may be asked and which can effect their approval.)

One idea I've had is to perhaps go for two to three months before applying for residency, to make sure it's where I want to be. Even as I write this however, I find myself thinking "of course it's where I want to be!" Again, many uncertainties, which leave me feeling somewhat insecure.

My original question was: would I need to register at the Questera when I arrive if I am not applying for residence immediately?

Hope this makes sense. Very vulnerable questions, but want to ensure I have the right info.

Thanks so much!

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Teresa, you have Italian citizenship, correct?

Then the only requirement for residency is that you have a valid lease (of greater than 12 months, I believe) and that the apartment/house/whatever meets minimum requirements for square footage (the requirement is minimal), running hot and cold water, and sanitation facilities. Really, you would have to sign a lease for a shack in the woods to not pass.

As an Italian citizen, you have the absolute right to live in Italy, with or without a job.

As to registering your presence, it would be easy and harmless, so no reason not to do so. If you enter Italy directly and use your Italian passport at passport control (which you are legally required to do), you can just ask the official to stamp your passport and that should serve the same purpose.

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Thanks so much, DoppioCittadino.

As I mentioned in a different post, I've gotten a lot of mixed information regarding the apartment I would like to rent.
Apparently, the owner called someone at the commune and was told she can only provide a simple 12 month lease. She was also told because she and her husband are both listed as residents at the apartment, they cannot have a third resident. Neither she nor her husband will be living there. Does that make any sense? An expat friend in Italy thinks the owner was misinformed.

Thanks again for your support.

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TheresaIT -

We are having a similar problem. We have found a place we may rent for a year. However, she does not want to go to the expense of having a lawyer draw up a contract. We are also dual citizens and will need to buy a car and get health insurance. I was told we could try and go to the comune and say that the owner didn't want to do a contract. We would then ask that they visit us asap at the address to establish residency. I don't know if this would work though.

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My first apartment in Italy was at the summer home of a friend. Due to problems that I'm not sure about, to get residency the landlord drew up a contract for my wife and I to stay at his winter apartment, where he and his family also lived. Although we did not actually live there with them, we lived at the summer house, the commune accepted the contract and sent the inspector to verify.

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Sergios,

Are you able to give me any of the specifics or even better, the wording of the contract? This potential landlord from the sound of it, has never rented before. She does not want to go to the expense of having one drawn up and if it is something I could give her guidance on, perhaps she would be willing to write one herself.

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I don't live there anymore. When I see him next week I'll ask if he still has a copy of the contract.

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Thank you so very much Sergios!

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More likely the potential landlord does not want to declare the income. Do everything and anything with a REGISTERED contract only.

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It is possible to register a "contract gratuito" with the commune. You can find examples of the contract on-line although I'm not sure if this is acceptable by the Italian Consulate

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It is important that everyone in this thread understands what residency is and means. It is not "given out" willy-nilly.

With residency, you get to vote in both local and national elections.

With residency, you get to join the *local* SSN (national healthcare) and pay *local* taxes. Why did I emphasize *local*? Because, contrary to common belief, Italy's healthcare system is operated at the regional level with slightly varying benefits depending on where you are located. And, then, there are regional and city taxes. If residency were not strictly enforced, everyone would try to register in a region where they will get the best benefits / pay the lowest taxes.

So, to get residency, you need to show that you own a home and that said home is, indeed, your "prima casa" (primary residence), or show a long-term lease which is registered with the comune. Some owners don't like to register leases because, by doing so, they can no longer hide the rental income from tax authorities.

Every person living in Italy must be "resident" somewhere, without it you would not have access to any benefits whatsoever. As a newcomer to Italy, it is very important that you ensure that any rental agreement you enter into will allow you to legally establish residency; make sure your landlord knows that this is your intent and make sure your lease has an "out" in the event residency is denied.

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DoppioCittadino, what are the rules for which passport to use with passport control. I recently bought a one way flight from the US to Italy stopping overnight in Istanbul. When I booked the flight, I used my US passport thinkiing that the flight originated there. I used a Visa I had to buy to stay overnight in a hotel in Istanbul. When I got to Italy the next day, I used my US passport consistent with the first leg of this one way journey. I reasoned that switching the passport would raise red flags. I want to do the right thing in the future, but I may be woefully unaware of the rules that govern the use of passports for dual nationals. Can you help me out with this?

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whidden, check out this great post regarding your Italian passport: http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.org/your-italian-passport-an-operator-s-guide-t2209.html

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My kids have dual citizenship. American/ Irish and American/Swedish . I book their plane tickets using their American passports when the the flight originates in the us, using my cc for everything plus hotels.
Check into US airport with American passports .
When we land in Europe , they use their European passports. The US does not know about their European passports and we have never shown them to US officials.( based on advice from the Swedish authorities, when they got them at birth)

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Hi Doppio,

Our intention is to move permanently to Italy and establish residency. Being dual citizens, we are currently registered in A.I.R.E. at the Italian Consulate in Boston. We do vote now in the Italian elections. We need to figure out a way to get residency as that is indeed what we are seeking. The townhouse we may rent is currently for sale, thus she also wants the ability to show it if an interested party comes along. We are continuing our search for a house to buy once we move over.

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Good luck with that, Lisa. Have you found info on line on how to buy into the healthcare system until residency is established?

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Teresa,

I really don't think buying into healthcare prior to residency is necessary.

First of all, everyone in Italy, citizen or not, gets free emergency healthcare under most all circumstances. Second, even seeing a private physician is relatively inexpensive (by US standards; say around €40 for an office visit). Third, you can request a "ATTESTAZIONE DEL DIRITTO ALL'ASSISTENZA SANITARIA PER I CITTADINI CHE RIENTRANO TEMPORANEAMENTE SUL TERRITORIO NAZIOWALE" from your consulate; this is a letter attesting to the fact that you are registered in their AIRE and are entitled to emergency healthcare while in Italy for a period of up to 3 months.

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DoppioCittadino, I have the same question as Whidden. Thanks for providing the link regarding which passport to use when traveling to/from Italy, but find it confusing.

I was "scolded" by an immigration official when existing Italy using my US passport, as it appeared I overstayed my visit. She told me I should have used my Italian passport.

Can you or someone explain best practice in simple language?

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Hi Theresa,

A bigger concern right now is how to buy a car.

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In simple language:

Both countries require, by law, that you enter and exit with your native passport. You exit the US using your US passport, enter Italy/EU using your Italian passport, exit Italy/EU using your Italian passport, and re-enter the US using your US passport.

Now, the above refers specifically to passport control/customs authorities. Airlines are another matter entirely. For example, if you book a flight to Italy that has a return flight more than 90 days after arrival, you will need to at the least show your Italian passport to the airline, or they will not let you board - airlines are responsible for ensuring that you have the necessary visa or other privilege to enter/remain in any country they fly you to.

Similarly, the airline in Italy may not allow you to board a flight to the US if you do not have a return flight booked within 90 days unless you prove (by way of your US passport) that you have the right to remain in the US.

Does that make sense?

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Theresa,

When you leave the US, use your US passport. When you arrive in Europe, put your US passport away and show your Italian passport to immigration officials. When leaving Italy/the EU, show your Italian passport to passport control. Once you land in the US, put your Italian passport away and show your US passport. Note - I always show my US passport at the airline ticket counter in the US/Italy. Otherwise, they will want to see your visa for staying in the US.

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Hi Lisa,

Thanks for clarifying. Rather than clutter the topic, am sending a PM.

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Doppio, Thanks for the link and subsequent posts. I'm finally clear on how this works. Still learning what it means to be a dual citizen.

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can't imagine it makes any difference now to change your behavior. Che sara' sara'...

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Thanks DoppioCittadino. Yes, thanks for breaking it down. Makes perfect sense - or at least the protocol is clear! LOL!

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Then what does an AIRE registered dual citizen do? I am not a foreigner? I will not be in a hotel. I do not have a lease.

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According to another government page, only Schengen people have to register (unless a hotel does it for them). Non-Schengen folks do it by getting the airport stamp in the passport. The only trouble I've heard about is overstaying the 90 days (even by a day) or, in the case of a permesso, failing to renew it and then getting detected when staying in a hotel.

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Yes, that appears to be correct; see paragraph 3 of http://www.esteri.it/mae/it/ministero/servizi/stranieri/ingressosoggiornoinitalia/soggiorno_stranieri_in_italia.html.

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But I think the "coming from" (Per lo straniero che proviene da Paesi che non applicano la Convenzione di Schengen) means how you crossed the Italian border, not where your residency is.

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You may be right. Another page, http://www.stranieriinitalia.it/l-esperto-risponde/archivio-giuridico-modulistica/modulistica-varia/dichiarazione-di-presenza-soggiorni-brevi-modulo-per-la-questura.html gives more details. I suppose that's because one's passport is not stamped (even though one goes through the non-EU passport line at the airport), the Italians want to kniw that you're in Italy, not still in another country. Complicated!

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However, I would imagine that that's not applicable if you have simply made an intra-airport transfer in a Schengen country as Italy would be the first to stamp your passport.

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