artnbarb
12/30/2016 13:59 EST
I've searched but not found an answer, so here goes: First of all, hello everyone! This is my first post on this forum and I'm happy to have found you! I'm Barbara, and my husband is Art. We currently live in Florida but previously we lived in Umbria for 7 years, from 2003 until 2010. The only reason we moved backed to the states was because it was impossible to be retired in US$ and living in euro! When the exchange rate hit $1.60 we had throw in the towel and reluctantly returned to the U.S.
We now think it might be possible to spend 6 months in Italy, so we're trying to update ourselves on the current ER requirements. One thing I learned very quickly is NOT to say we only want to stay for 6 months! For the purpose of our ER Visa we will state that we want to move to Italy indefinitely, as it is our intention to return year after year, and yes, we might even move back permanently if the stars align correctly!
When we moved to Italy in 2003 we bought a house so we had no problem satisfying that requirement. This time will prove more challenging. Initially, and possibly for the entire 6 months, we will stay with a dear friend, our 'adopted' daughter, who has lived there for 20 years.
I read on a blog ( https://rickzullo.com/) that in addition to proof of ownership and a registered rental agreement, we could also write a letter stating that we will be hosted by a friend in Italy. I'm sure it would be better if our friend were an Italian rather than a fellow expat, but It is what it is.
I haven't seen this option discussed anywhere else and hoped someone here might have some insight. I don't want to show up at the consulate and blow our chances by submitting documents that might not work, and that might also prevent another request from being approved.
We have the income covered, the health insurance is taken care of, we'll be getting our car thru the Peugeot buy-back program, so the housing situation is really the only hurdle we still have to figure out.
Thank you all so much for any and all advice!
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DoppioCittadino
12/30/2016 16:21 EST
For a friend to "host" you, he/she will need to accept legal responsibility for you. On paper. In writing. This is not a good idea and probably would not work anyway.
Assuming you no longer own the home in Italy, you will need a proper lease of at least 13 months duration. There is no practical way around this requirement.
I am not sure about the Miami consulate, but I have it on good authority that the New York consulate is *currently* demanding €31000 per year *per person* guaranteed income.
Also, staying in Italy just 6 months at a time may not prove to be so easy, either. For one thing, you will be considered tax resident and thus owe Italian income taxes on your worldwide income for the entire year; you really cannot get around this as, to do so, you would have to admit that you are not residing in Italy full-time and thus violate the terms of your visa.
As you seem to (correctly) understand, the ER visa is issued to persons who intend to move to Italy permanently; taken from that view, all of the above requirements make complete sense and the suggestions ("we are going to live with a friend") cited make no sense at all if you think about it.
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artnbarb
12/30/2016 17:43 EST
Thanks for your reply!
As I stated in my original post, I think we're good as far as proof of income goes – we've been down this road before!
I'm not sure why you brought up taxes – we never had any trouble during the seven years we lived there. We always filed our taxes in the U.S. because of the agreement of reciprocity. Additionally we were told that the return should be filed in the country where the money originated, Anyway, we never had any problems, so I'd continue to file U.S taxes whether I lived in Italy 6 months or 12 months.
Now, regarding the letter from a 'host'. I did some more searching on this site and found this link ( http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-application-requirements/proof-accommodation/ ), which refers to Schengen countries in general, and might not even be needed for Italy. Further research at the Miami Consulates' site produced a copy of the letter ( http://www.consmiami.esteri.it/resource/2016/04/39293_f_cons97letteradiinvito2016.pdf )one would write/submit to be hosted. But because it's Italian, that link could be 10 years old and no longer accepted. If it IS still valid, it would certainly suggest that one could move to Italy if formally hosted.
I'm going to contact them to see if they'll clarify!
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velvet
12/30/2016 22:18 EST
Barb the tax treaties do not cover the wealth tax. Ignorance is not an acceptable reason. Any basic search will tell you that you are liable for a wealth tax.
If I was the visa processing officer I would look at the time you have spent in Italy to see if you have complied with all previous requirements. If you haven't ( not paying the wealth tax) and you have still have a house in Italy that you don't want to name as a residence but would prefer to be sponsored I would think you are trying to do something not quite right.
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artnbarb
12/31/2016 08:03 EST
I'm not even sure what a wealth tax is! Please explain.
No, we don't still have a house in Italy, we sold ii in 2010 when we moved back to the states. If we still owned the house we wouldn't have a problem!
I'm not sure why you assume that we're trying to do something wrong when we're trying to do it right!
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DoppioCittadino
12/31/2016 08:59 EST
Also, as fiscally/tax resident in Italy (that is, living there more than 183 days per year), in so far as I know, you were legally required to file Italian income tax returns annually, even if no tax was owed.
I have dual US/Italy citizenship so I am not certain of all the rules that apply to non-citizens, but I am pretty sure that you may have broken a number of them in the past, based on what you have told us so far. :(
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artnbarb
12/31/2016 09:16 EST
As stated previously, when we lived in Italy we abided by all the laws, up to and including paying the (ridiculous) RAI TV tax, but A) that's water under the bridge, and B) that's not the purpose of this post.
As a former expat I understand that many people think they can simply move to Italy with no paperwork and no preparation. We did our best to help people move to Italy legally, and used forums like this to help one another stay updated and informed. I was happy to find this forum since much has changed since 2010, but now I feel as if I'm being attacked rather than being helped. : (
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OldPro
12/31/2016 13:20 EST
Artnbarb, please LISTEN carefully. What you THINK you know and what you KNOW are two different things. You are being told you may well have messed up in the past and that you need to make sure you don't mess up in the future. Listen to what you are being told about taxes.
Let's assume you go through the hassle of applying and it gets you a visa to enter. You will then have to apply for a Residence Permit. Let's say that works. Then to maintain your residency so that you can return again next year for 6 months, you must meet the requirements of Residency which means you must spend 183 days or more in Italy per year. You can do that.
NOW, as a legal resident of Italy you are subject to Italian taxes. Do you understand that? You MUST file a tax return in Italy for every year you are legally resident. It does NOT matter if you are paying taxes in the USA. It does not matter that you consider yourself an American, not an Italian.
You will have to file tax returns in BOTH the USA and Italy for every year that you are legally resident in Italy. You may have to pay some taxes in Italy and some in the USA. You may have some choice over what sources of income you pay tax on in each country.
What you did in the past may or may not come up at some point. If it does you will have to deal with the consequences of your past ignorance and you can be sure they aren't going to just say, 'oh well, you didn't know any better, we'll just forget about it.'
The wealth tax you are being told of is a relatively new thing. It is something current Americans living in Italy aren't happy about. You need to learn about it and what it means to you.
I am saying to you in as polite but direct a way as possible, lose the attitude you seem to have about what the purpose of your post is and being attacked. You are not being 'attacked' people are trying to HELP you but you aren't listening.
You posted with one question but it became quite clear that it is not the only thing you need HELP with.
I would like to comment on your previous reason for leaving. The movement in the exchange rate between the USD and the Euro. The effect of exchange rates on a person who retires to another country happens to be one of my 'pet' subjects.
Anyone who retires to a country with a different currency than the currency their income is derived in, has to deal with exchange rate fluctuations.
For that reason, my advice to people is to make plans to deal with that. The way you deal with it is to allow a 'cushion' in your financial planning. For example, we work on a budget of thirds. One third of income for basic living expenses; one third for discretionary spending; one third for saving/investment.
Our income that is derived in one currency and then converted to the local currency has meant our income in local currency has moved up and down by as much as 25% in the last 10 years. As we have a 'cushion' of up to 66%, all that has meant to us is maybe one less holiday per year sometimes. We were prepared for that.
It is when people either have living costs that are too close to their total income that they run into trouble and have to leave because they cannot deal with the currency exchange. Or when they are unwilling to live with the swings in income because psychologically, they did not prepare themselves to do so.
Someone considering moving to another country where their income will be affected by currency fluctuations need to understand that they must have a 'cushion' to deal with that. In fact, they need TWO cushions. One is the financial cushion and the other is the psychological cushion.
The financial cushion is straightforward, either you have it or you don't. But psychologically, when our income in local currency is down by 25%, you can bet we moan and complain about it but we do not pack up and leave. We have learned to accept it as part of the package.
So if the currency fluctuations drove you away last time, what is different this time? Are you going to go through the process of gaining Residency once again and then if the currency fluctuations drop your income by say 25%, are you going to quit again?
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almare2
12/31/2016 14:59 EST
Good comment, OldPro. I also did not take your previous posts as being mean. Unfortunately, all these financial subjects are a fact of life. I also had the thought about the previous Italian tax returns not being filed and how they might impact artnbarb's applications for residency permits. With greater communication among governments, the tax laws are something one has to be very careful to comply with and keep abreast of as far as any changes are concerned.
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almare2
12/31/2016 15:03 EST
Artnbarb, there is a very long discussion of taxes for pensioners on this forum at http://www.expatexchange.com/expat/index.cfm?frmid=231&tpcid=3397702. It may be worth your while to read through it, to acquaint yourselves with the current laws. :-)
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lifelover
12/31/2016 15:09 EST
We have hired an Italian tax lawyer so I will share a bit of information we got.
" The Italian govt. is evaluating the opportunity to introduce a favourable tax regime to individuals interested in moving to Italy.An individual who has not been resident in Italy in the last 9 years and transfers his residence to Italy may be taxed on a territorial basis(instead of the worldwide principle provided for Italian tax residents)
According to the proposed system, the taxpayer would pay an annual charge of 1000 euros in lieu of income and capital gains tax in respect of income and gains with a foreign source. The taxpayer may extend the treatment to close family members by paying an additional 25,000 euro per year for each member involved.
In addition, the taxpayer would not have to declare non-Italian assets in his Italian tax return ("RW section" of the tax return.
You can work out those numbers to see if they would be useful to you if you still own real estate in the US, etc etc . Any home or property's (value ) owned in the US is included
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artnbarb
12/31/2016 15:11 EST
Wow. It seems like you have an ax to grind and some pet peeves to rant about and I was the lucky caller!
Under different circumstances I would happily discuss not only the tax situation, but also the reasons for our move back to the U.S. but now I feel as if I'm being attacked AND lectured to!
Certainly it's possible we screwed up in the past. Certainly it's possible that new laws and taxes have come into play, and that's why I came to this forum. I've never condoned those who try to bend or circumvent the law, especially when you're a guest in that country.
Obviously almare2 disagrees with me, but yes, I feel attacked and insulted by your judgemental, preachy post. Explain to me what the wealth tax is, don't just go on a binge about how ignorance is no excuse. I UNDERSTAND that, I do. I came here to meet like-minded people who love Italy as much as I do. I came here asking questions, asking for help. I came here in the spirit of friendship, but I'm not feeling it. I know a lot can be lost with the written word, but just as you have told me to lose my attitude, I would say the same to you.
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artnbarb
12/31/2016 15:54 EST
€100,000! Yikes! We could never afford that!
Thanks for the link to a previous thread, I'm going to read thru it now.
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almare2
12/31/2016 16:37 EST
There is an interesting summary of tax liabilities for expats resident in Italy at https://taxesforexpats.com/italy/us-tax-preparation-in-italy.html, under "Who Qualifies as a Resident of Italy?" and "Tax Rates in Italy." The last paragraph under the first head says, "Meeting any of these requirements makes a person an Italian resident for purposes of taxes."
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almare2
12/31/2016 16:41 EST
We are all trying to help. It would be very bad for you in your residency visa application process for the Italian government to discover that you should have been paying taxes on your income years ago (dividends, interest, and private pension, for example, though not Social Security) and levy you a huge fine and interest plus mess up your chances to gain residency. :-(
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artnbarb
12/31/2016 16:51 EST
Thanks again for the links, it IS very complicated. Thankfully our pensions are US government and Social Security so we have fewer complications than some.
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codybrandy
12/31/2016 19:20 EST
Dear OldPro...please stop attacking people...it's very unpleasant...you may have some knowledge but you come off as very unpleasant.
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lifelover
12/31/2016 20:15 EST
https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/italy-income-tax.html
Here is a more in depth link. You should consult
A tax lawyer. The wealth tax is no joke. The fines for not filing in time aren't either. Yikes!
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OldPro
1/1/2017 13:13 EST
Codybrandy, I do not 'attack' people. I am simply direct in what I say. If someone cannot tell the difference and chooses to 'read in' to what I write, something that is not there, that is not my problem, it is their problem.
I simply tell it like it I see it and that's ALL I do. I wrote to HELP the OP and nothing else. IF the OP or you CHOOSE to interpret what I write as 'attacking', so be it.
Let me give you an example to consider. Your car breaks down and you have it towed to a garage. After taking a look, the mechanic says to you, 'you need a new engine.' You say, 'why? It worked fine yesterday.' The mechanic says, 'well, your engine seized because it was out of oil. I can see where it had a gasket leaking for some time and so I can guess that you never checked they oil and that's why you are where you are today.' You then respond, 'Oh, so it's all my fault is it? Why are you attacking me.?'
That's how I see this situation. I see the same reaction all the time by people who do not like to hear what they are being told. YES, it is their own fault but telling them so is NOT attacking them, it is simply telling them the truth.
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artnbarb
1/1/2017 13:56 EST
Thanks to all who have given me practical advice, links to current laws and their take on our situation. I appreciate those who shared their advice and stories in the spirit of friendship.
Every group seems to have that one mean-spirited know-it-all, and I seem to have poked that bear! Sorry it didn't work out between us, but there's just too much negativity in the world to subject myself to more!
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artnbarb
1/1/2017 14:03 EST
I forgot to add: the good news is that we'll be staying in Italy less than 183 days! woohoo!
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OldPro
1/1/2017 18:16 EST
1. For 90 days no visa required.
2. Up to 120 days with a Type D visa.
3. For over 120 days Residency required.
4. To maintain Residency and therefore be able to return next year, 183 days + required.
Which is it gonna be? You make no sense whatsoever. Woohoo!
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almare2
1/1/2017 20:11 EST
So you will be visiting Italy on a Schengen tourist visa waiver, i.e.,, 90 days in every 180? In order to maintain the ER permesso di soggiorno, you would need to be actually living in Italy.
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almare2
1/1/2017 20:12 EST
So you will be visiting Italy on a Schengen tourist visa waiver, i.e.,, 90 days in every 180? In order to maintain the ER permesso di soggiorno, you would need to be actually living in Italy.
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proseh58
1/2/2017 13:01 EST
Barb,
I'm a Floridian living in Puglia, coming up on our year anniversary here. Can you tell me what information you're seeking? I couldn't tell from your post. I'd be happy to help.
Pamela
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OldPro
1/2/2017 13:11 EST
And YOU are not answering the question.
You started out saying you want to stay for 6 months EVERY year. Either you have now changed that to staying no more than 90 days in a year or you somehow think you can stay just under 183 days every year and avoid taxes.
If you think you can do the latter, you are wrong. Woohoo!
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artnbarb
1/2/2017 15:08 EST
This is turning into a 'who's on first?' routine! Yes, we plan to stay 6 months, no we're not trying to avoid any taxes. We have researched and consulted with tax authorities and feel confident that what we plan to do is legal with regards to both countries, and represents NO deceptive or illegal activities by us. That is ALL I'm going to say about the tax issue. It was NOT my question, it was NOT the reason I came here. I appreciate being updated on new laws and regulations, but this was NOT my question.
I came here asking about being sponsored or hosted in lieu of having a rental agreement. The few people who commented on that doubted it would work without having any idea what they were talking about. and some even suggested we were trying to do something illegal!
As I later posted, further research led me to a site that made it seem like being hosted was a viable option. I haven't been able to call the consulate to clarify this, but despite the animosity and failure to answer my original question, I'll be more than happy to share whatever information I get from them. We should all be here to help one another get through the maze that is Italian bureaucracy. Fair enough? Buon cappodanno!
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OldPro
1/3/2017 13:59 EST
You're just not making any sense here artnbarb.
You write, "Yes, we plan to stay 6 months"
HOW do you plan to do that? You will need a type D visa which is good for 120 days and will have to apply for a Residency Permit during that time so that you can stay for the last 2 months LEGALLY.
Fine, you do that, it gets you 6 months for the FIRST year. But if as you say you will not be staying over 183 days, then you will not meet the requirement to MAINTAIN that Residency which means NEXT year you would have to start all over if you wanted to stay for 6 months again.
So now you say you plan to stay 6 months but not over 183 days. That then begs the question of whether you have now changed your mind and only plan to stay 6 months for ONE year only. Not EVERY year as you originally wrote.
This isn't a case of, 'who's on first', this is a case of you simply not being clear in your writing as to what it is you NOW intend to do. Has it changed from '6 months every year' to '6 months one time only.'?
IF and I stress the IF, you still plan to visit for 6 months every year as originally stated, how do you plan to do that? You cannot expect to get a new visa every year and new residency every year as well.
You want people to answer the question you originally asked. You don't want anyone questioning you about anything else. I get that but look at it from another perspective.
If someone asks me for directions to the edge of a cliff, I can just give theM an answer. OR, I can first ask why they want to go to the edge of the cliff? Personally, I prefer to make sure they aren't planning to drive over the edge of the cliff, before I give them directions.
The question that they asked me is not the question I need an answer to before I will give them an answer to the question they asked. Get it?
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DoppioCittadino
1/3/2017 14:31 EST
Barb,
I don't think you will be able to pull off the "6 months per year" thing for more than one year.
The only way to stay legally in Italy for more than 90 days (out of any 180 blah, blah, blah) is to obtain an Elective Residency visa. One thing that is often not clear is that this visa only gives you permission to *enter* Italy; you still need permission to stay - that is, once in Italy you will need to apply for a Permesso di Soggiorno. And, for that, you will need a valid lease of at least 13 months duration or a legally binding document from your host stating that they will be entirely responsible for you while you are in Italy (frankly, only a fool would sign such a document). If you don't apply for your PdiS in a reasonable amount of time, your ER visa is worthless.
Once you have established residency and gotten that PdiS, you are for all intents and purposes tax-resident. The only way to not be tax-resident is to leave Italy before 183 days has elapsed and, effectively, cancel your ER status. Next year, when you want to return, you would have to begin the entire process all over again and, I think I can assure you, you will have a difficult time getting that *next* ER visa...
The simple fact is, there is no legal way for you to do what you want to do. As a non-Italian / non-EU citizen, you can move to Italy permanently on an ER visa or visit for 90 days out of any 180 day period - there are no in-between options available.
Also, I have been hanging out on this and many other related boards for more than 10 years and I have never, ever, read of anyone who got an ER visa based on a letter from a friend (or relative) with whom they intended to stay.
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almare2
1/3/2017 14:45 EST
I agree with OldPro. I also have been researching this business for quite a while, and what he says is correct.
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islandblues
1/3/2017 15:42 EST
hi, i just wanted to provide a small bit of input regarding the ER visa. i just obtained mine via miami in october. they were very strident about the income. i am single, 57, and they were clearly looking for something in the six figures ++ for me alone. i presented a thorough package in duplicate with six months of every financial statement from multiple sources and still they wanted more. the point here for artnbarb is this: with the visa in my passport i was also handed a printed form stating that i was required to apply for my PdS within 7 days of arriving in italy, and for you maybe more importantly these words: and i quote:THIS VISA IS ISSUED SOLEY TO THOSE APPLICANTS WHO ARE PLANNING TO MOVE PERMENANTLY TO ITALY. THE ER VISA MUST BE REQUESTED AND OBTAINED ONLY ONCE. THIS OFFICE WILL NOT ACCEPT FUTURE ELECTIVE RESIDENCE VISA REQUESTS FROM THE SAME APPLICANTS. failure to comply .... punishable by expulsion. etc etc
since you can only apply from your home state (unless you move) it appears you have one shot at the ER visa. it looks like they have had issues in the past and this paper is a clear warning not to try for it again if you are lucky enough to grab the brass ring the first go round. hope this has been helpful! liz.
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OldPro
1/6/2017 13:19 EST
I'm waiting to hear how they are going to do this for 6 months every year but not become tax resident.
There must be a secret way I don't know about. Can't wait to hear what it is.
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lindanoto
1/6/2017 13:48 EST
I understand that many questions posted to this forum are sometimes a bit convoluted, or instead, lacking information needed to give the best reply . I also understand why a lot of people post once then never return- but Why the know it all, bullying tone? This is not what this is supposed to be about.
Why don't all the "experts" list the amount of time here living in Italy,
status ( resident, citizen, type of visa)
and their personal experience?
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velvet
1/6/2017 15:14 EST
lindanoto. When entering any forum to seek advice people can either take or leave what is given. I have found that when posters give advice I then do my own research to confirm what has been pointed out. I may not like the tone of how this advice is given, but in the end it's the advice I am after and not to have people as my best friends.
I have always received good advice and usually in a polite way.
The whole living in Italy dream is as you say ' a bit convoluted', and those of us in different countries get different advice.
I don't think people have to give their history as to how long they have lived in Italy to make their advice more valid.
As to the so called bullying. Really. We are all adults.
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lindanoto
1/6/2017 17:42 EST
Ok, what about someone just being a jerk?
I don't think it is too much to ask for basic "adult like" behavior.
It is part of the reason less and less people post or bother to respond after awhile.
Run thru this thread, seems I am not alone in finding it a bit tiresome.
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artnbarb
1/6/2017 18:08 EST
A few have posted here, several others have sent private messages saying they are sorry for the bulling, know-it-all behavior of some on the board. While I appreciate the good will of some (probably most) of the people here, I won't be back. And now they'll say catty things about me leaving, which is why I'm leaving.
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almare2
1/6/2017 19:25 EST
artnbarb, Please do keep us informed if you do manage to stay 6 months a year on an elective residency visa without paying taxes and whether, doing so, you manage to retain the ER visa after the first year. Many of us others would like to know how to do this, too! :-)
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codybrandy
1/7/2017 04:41 EST
It seems the only way to "handle" our resident 'blowhard' is to stop reading his posts and stop responding to him. I can affirm that loosing ArtandBarb as posters is a loss...I have followed their Italian blogs for years and they are witty, charming and helpful. They come here to ask an honest question and get lambasted by someone who, true has some knowledge but just loves the sound of his own voice and doesn't know when to stop. We all know who the truly helpful posters are...let's honor them.
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Sergios
1/7/2017 05:16 EST
In defense of oldpro, he is knowledgeable if a bit impatient. I too can get impatient as well. I hope I haven't come off that way. The questions asked, although they may appear straightforward and simple, are at times very complex and difficult to answer without additional details. People new to the site should be made aware that they should provide as much info as possible without being belittled. That can be difficult to do at times.
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rsetzer99
1/7/2017 05:20 EST
I've seen much much worse on some other forums. Sometimes people might be somewhat less 'diplomatic' than one might like, but if the information is accurate and to the point, you take what you can get. I spent nearly a year haunting forums before we made our move just last month. Information on ER Visas was sometimes wildly off the mark, and, frequently, posts were made just by people who for some reason were rejected and wanted to make a one and done complaint.
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OldPro
1/9/2017 17:05 EST
Codybrandy, I suggest you go back and read this thread from the beginning and then comment on whether losing the OP is a loss or not.
NO ONE including me 'lambasted' the OP. But right from the first comments by DoppioCittadino, velvet, relevant questions and points were raised, to which she replied, " but now I feel as if I'm being attacked rather than being helped."
I then advised her that she was not being attacked and to LISTEN to what she was being told.
She might not have liked being told that by me but not liking it doesn't make it bad advice or 'lambasting her'..
Her response was to say, 'just give me the directions to the edge of the cliff that I asked for and don't ask me why I want to go there'.
Your response apparently is that I and presumably anyone else should then have just gave her those directions and 'know when to stop' telling her it isn't a good idea to go to the edge of a cliff.
She hasn't shown how they will stay for 6 months each year to prove what she has been told is wrong. She has apparently run away without showing everyone is wrong to say it can't be done OR has run away without admitting she was wrong and apologizing for not listening in the first place.
In the end, that is what this thread came down to. Her insisting they could stay 6 months per year without becoming tax resident and EVERYONE else saying, no they could not.
Your liking her blogging doesn't make her a loss. As far as I am concerned, the loss is her loss.
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almare2
1/9/2017 17:54 EST
I quite agree. She seemed to have a kind of la-la attitude about it all, and I have yet to understand how they think they can get around the laws as they exist. They also seem to misunderstand the tax treaty. They may be in for a nasty surprise in the end. I think everyone who gave advice was trying to be helpful. We have all been in the situation of trying to figure out what we can and can't do, and although what we can actually do may not be what we want to do, wishing and basing our assumptions on "information" from sources outside the Italian system who tell us otherwise ain't gonna make it so. Neither will killing the messenger. :-)
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velvet
1/10/2017 01:09 EST
It is always disappointing in life when the things you want to do don't match up with the things you can do. I would rather find out the issues from experienced people and then confirm with the appropriate professionals.
I too have read the OP's blog from time to time, but that doesn't change the fact that she Is only interested in doing what she wants to do.
My employment brings me into contact with embassies and migration issues so I have an understanding of what they look for. If you have lived overseas previously the first issue a visa processing person would look at is if you have complied with all the regulations of living in that country.
People must be aware that tax or tax avoidance is now a very big issue. Of course we would all like to think that we are the little guys and that governments are not interested in us. They are though.
One should also be careful about what they admit on a public forum. Internet searches are so easy to do for government organisations, and a lot of information can be gathered this way.
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codybrandy
1/10/2017 04:26 EST
Just love the sound of your own voice don't you...sorry not reading past words Oldpro...too many pleasant people out there commenting!
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velvet
1/10/2017 04:34 EST
codybrandy. Wow . Are you serious. I don't understand your reaction. As said previously if you don't like what is written don't respond.
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rsetzer99
1/10/2017 05:53 EST
It wasn't the what, it was the how.
There are some guidelines on how to be diplomatic online.
First. Caps, while traditionally used for emphasis, are seen in a discussion as either shouting, in the case of multiple words in cap, or insistence in the case of just one word.
Using phrases that basically say - No, your wrong. Rephrasing to say something like, - I do not believe that is correct. - Insisting people are heading for disaster also rarely swings them around to another way of thinking. It is basically a less nasty way of saying - Don't be stupid.
It is true that the OP did seem stuck on the 6 month idea. And, granted, could not provide the secret formula. There were at least several posts that said that in the experience of those on this forum, and additionally, people known by those on this forum, that the strategy could have a number of pitfalls. But did follow that up to request that if there were facts that had not yet been presented, to please being them forward as this forum is more than just a advice column, it is a knowledge base.
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rsetzer99
1/10/2017 06:01 EST
"Of course we would all like to think that we are the little guys and that governments are not interested in us"
As a retired accountant who handled many types of audits, the statement is basically true. They generally cannot be bothered to move out of their seats to track you down, But, just as in nature, if you willingly put yourself within range, they are certainly not going to pass up an easy meal. And in the case of immigration issues, one will always have to make eye contact with bureaucrats from time to time. So have your documents neat and organized, and speak when spoken to.
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almare2
1/10/2017 06:20 EST
rsetzer99, Very good post. My own teeth are set on edge by the use of caps. They really aren't necessary in a civil discussion and often serve only to raise the hackles of the person being addressed, even though the information given is correct and useful. I am an editor, and I know that if a sentence is phrased well, the emphasis will fall on the important words without the need to CAPITALIZE ;-)
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emiliaromagna
1/10/2017 09:44 EST
Thank you. rsetzer99, for your sensible comments. Considering that generally posters are retirees, one would think/hope for a more mature approach to posting on the forum. Woohooing back and forth most certainly is not mature, rather childish. Neither is capitalizing to make one's point. No need for it especially since, more than anything, it seems to expose the poster as being angry and impatient.
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wobbster
1/20/2017 17:40 EST
It's hard to see how this could be a good idea for a US citizen moving to Italy, even if you are a gazillionaire. If you make this huge payment up front in year 1, you'd still have to pay US taxes on your US income starting in year 2. So, you'd get scant benefit from the provisions on double taxation. It's not even clear if this lump payment would be considered taxation from the point of view of the double taxation treaty.
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