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Heating Cost of Apartment Using Gas Bombola

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LisaC1
1/27/2017 15:33 EST

We are strongly considering renting an apartment in a house in a small town, about 485 meters high, in southern Marche. The apartment is the first floor of an empty stand-alone house, built in the 1970's. It is about 80 - 90 mq. It only has an outdoor gas bombola or a fireplace for heat.

The owner's son had stayed there during winter some years back and stated that the prices to heat seemed "normal" and that the apartment stayed at a comfortable temperature. The entire house has been empty for some time.
Does anyone have a rough idea of what it would cost to heat per month, assuming an average temperature of 65 degrees? Also, do most houses use electricity to heat the water? We haven't asked about that.

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Sergios
1/27/2017 15:47 EST

Without basic information like insulation amounts, number of exposed walls, window types, condition of windows and doors....you get the idea. Your asking an impossible question to answer.
Keep in mind that Italy is not as cold as say northeastern USA. That being the case, heating systems are not as strong and houses, being mostly masonry, are not well insulated. These houses tend to be cold and damp in the winter unless you run heating, which can be expensive. Fire places, incidently, are the worst way to heat a home. As far as water heaters, the trend is to use tankless gas heaters but many older homes still use electric tank heaters. Heat pump air conditioners are effective and relatively inexpensive to buy but since they are electric can cost to run.
My villa (rental), in Sicily, only has heat pumps for heat so I purchased a pellet stove. It's nice to have constant, dry heat.

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lindanoto
1/27/2017 21:45 EST

le Marche? Has cold winters, true winter. Electricity is very expensive and most people learn to use most high wattage appliances in the off peak hours. If you mean those heaters that run off bombole - they actually add to the dampness and are usually only good as supplemental heating. I can't stand the smell.
A wood or pellet stove provides the best heat but between the two I will pick wood . We are in southeast Sicily so not nearly as cold as where you are going and we still light the stove even when it is 62. I need a dry home. If electricity goes out so does your pellet stove . The pellet stoves are nice though for less mess and easier control. We have access to good wood ( olive and lemon ) so it makes more sense for us , but even buying -wood is more economical. It also throws a heat nothing can match . think the dual wood or pellet stoves cost more but are really worth it. An open Camino is practically useless, though if you leave the vent open in summer it will actually cool your house .

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lindanoto
1/27/2017 21:47 EST

Hook up wood or pellet using the camino.

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rsetzer99
1/28/2017 03:57 EST

A would also recommend a pellet stove. Depending on how its laid out, you can heat most or all. They are not terribly expensive. I bought a fireplace insert pellet stove. Stone village house in Abruzzo. Bags of pellet cost 4.50 to 5.00 EU. I average a bag a day during Janurary, sometimes less as really turn it down when we are out.

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LisaC1
1/28/2017 11:47 EST

Can you get an insert for the fireplace to use a wood stove? We had previously asked the owner about our putting in a wood or pellet stove but he said a hole would need to be made. We didn't ask him specifically about the camino. Thanks everyone for your help! The house also has large windows which are nice but not so much in winter!

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lifelover
1/28/2017 12:10 EST

My architect talked about using inserts in fireplaces so I know it's possible . Says it's great. Takes all humidity out of room.

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proseh58
1/29/2017 04:53 EST

We just paid 260 euros for gas for the month of January in a 100 meter apartment in Puglia. Electricity was 120. This is the coldest time of the year, however. In spring, we pay less than 100 euros for both. Many things in Italy are cheaper than other countries, but utilities are more expensive.

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LisaC1
1/29/2017 13:17 EST

Thanks everyone,

We will look into fireplace inserts for either a pellet or wood stove.

Has anyone had experience with the electric radiators, filled with oil, that are portable? A friend just suggested that as well.

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Sergios
1/29/2017 14:02 EST

Electric is electric. Its expensive to run electric heaters. I would go with the pellet stove for its ease and safety. A good point was made about power failures, but the last time I had a power failure was 26 months ago, when I was living in the USA.

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nick0126
1/29/2017 14:07 EST

your temperature estimate is no good if your 2500 feet up. I'm at 720 meters about 30 minutes north of you, and the fall, winter and early spring will required regular heating. Do they have a large fixed tank or do you have to have the small tanks delivered? you could end up with weekly delivery in the winter.

Fireplace wood deliveries are in the same ballpark as GPL. If you have modern electricity, oil electric might be a better option. Easier to set timers to turn off after you are snug under a couple down blankets... sounds like an adventure...

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LisaC1
1/29/2017 18:39 EST

Thanks everyone,

Nick, I believe it is a large outside tank but will need to ask.

Sergios, unfortunately, the area of Le Marche we like has had a lot of power outages due to the snow this year. We might also consider getting a generator if we go for a pellet stove.

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lindanoto
1/29/2017 19:29 EST

Regardless of what heating source you choose - when you get here, invest in heated mattress pads .
I have more than a few aches and pains from past injury, age . The heated mattress is like a magic tonic .

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LisaC1
1/29/2017 19:36 EST

Hi Linda,

We currently have heated mattress pads in Vermont and I couldn't live without them. Do you have a link to a source where we can buy them in Italy? I don't think it would work long-term to use ours with transformers.

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maluza86
1/30/2017 02:18 EST

Heated mattress pads are a must and are readily available at most large appliance stores. We bought ours from Euronics, but you can also order from Amazon.it (coperta elettrica materasso riscaldata)

https://www.amazon.it/Dreamland-Intelliheat-Heated-Mattress-Protector/dp/B005HHUMQS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1485760336&sr=8-1&keywords=mattress+heating+blankets

We also purchased a small oil filled electric heater you asked about earlier for our bathroom. In our bathrooms the heating elements are the towel bar so they don't give off as much heat as a normal radiator. The oil heater is great, warms the room quickly and does not use much electricity at all.

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lindanoto
1/30/2017 03:47 EST

You can get them just about anywhere. Euronics, sometimes Lidl , Auchon, Brico.
They are a staple here so not difficult to find.
Definitely to buy here, not try to convert.

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rsetzer99
1/30/2017 04:13 EST

They were everywhere this January. Even found them at the Conad. Stacks of space heaters in all the stores as well.

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LisaC1
1/30/2017 12:54 EST

Thanks, good to know about the heated mattress pads. At least the bed will be warm if nothing else!

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OldPro
1/31/2017 13:46 EST

I have encountered heating issues in several countries in Europe along these lines and the answer never seems to be the same.

One issue I have identified is what locals will consider 'normal' or acceptable is not necessarily what I am willing to accept.

The points about insulation for example, can be significant. If the rest of the house is empty, how much heat loss will that result in? Generally speaking, there is no insulation between floors so you are going to lose heat that would not be lost if that other floor was occupied.

How did the son who lived there in a previous winter heat the apartment? You haven't said what he did. Did he just use the fireplace and wear a coat all the time?

You are renting, does it make sense for you to invest in a way of heating the apartment to your satisfaction or should you be looking for somewhere that is heated already in a way you can live with?

I lived in an apartment once that had solar hot water. A tank and solar panels on the roof provided the only source of hot water. Kinda like playing 'shower roulette'. Today the sun shines and I can have a shower, yesterday, no sun, no shower. I lived in another apartment that had electric hot water on a 'on demand' system. When I turned the shower on, I could watch the electric meter start to spin around the dial at an awesome rate. That was a 'can I afford a shower today' set up. I also lived in an apartment that had central heating with hot water radiators in each room run off a central furnace and with individual thermostats on each radiator. Hot water was also supplied from the central furnace in the building. That was the only one in which I had no issue about heat or hot water. My rent in that one had a summer rate and a winter rate. Both fixed regardless of how much I ran air conditioning in summer or heating in winter or how many showers I wanted to have. Guess which one is the standard I would now apply to any rental I looked at.

Been there, done that, learned my lesson. I find comments about mattress heaters kinda amusing. If I need a mattress heater, I need to find a better place to live.

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lindanoto
2/1/2017 01:12 EST

People use mattress heaters in every country. USA,UK . Not an indication of a house's capacity to keep you warm . It is a comfort that many prefer if you suffer arthritis, the flu , or just like to keep the heating bills down ( I have none , as we burn our own wood.) My house inside average temps are 24- 26c right now. I still use my mattress heater 20 minutes on and I'm good.
On the flip side- as a holiday rental landlord , we get plenty of travelers who think nothing of running the heating unit in our places while leaving the windows open, take 2 hour showers twice a day off our on demand water heater ( gas) , in general live like they wouldn't if they had to think about the bill . I wouldn't have any long term renter , but if I did they would pay all there own utilities and my only job would be to supply them with up to standard ones. If looking for a rental I would think it is one of the first things I would investigate.

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LisaC1
2/2/2017 16:00 EST

Old Pro,

Unfortunately, I don't think we have a lot of options right now for places to rent. We need to bring our 2 dogs and 2 indoor cats, when our house in the US sells. We also need to have some outside space ie a garden, or my husband will not be happy.

As far as mattress pads go, they are the best. Not fun getting into a cold bed!

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nick0126
2/2/2017 16:38 EST

not sure what your connection to Marche is, but there are many more pleasant and milder areas in and near Abruzzo/Marche and Molise. I would be happy to connect you with English speaking person to help you find a more friendly house for your rental - there are thousands available. I suggest you find a place with decent train connections and not something too remote... PM me if you want a phone number of the contact...

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nick0126
2/2/2017 16:41 EST

careful with power generators. make sure it is an INVERTER, or it will burn thru Gasoline/oil like water. Inverters draw power as needed, cheap generators put out a fixed current whether you are using it or not... Honda has one of the best options sold in Italy

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nick0126
2/2/2017 16:41 EST

careful with power generators. make sure it is an INVERTER, or it will burn thru Gasoline/oil like water. Inverters draw power as needed, cheap generators put out a fixed current whether you are using it or not... Honda has one of the best options sold in Italy

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LisaC1
2/2/2017 16:48 EST

Hi Nick,

We have been visiting southern Marche for many years and really love the area. We also have spent some time in Abruzzo, but I prefer Le Marche. My husband does like Vasto a lot, but we probably wouldn't want to live in the city and the outskirts are pretty barren. The area we like in Le Marche is about 1/2 hour from the city of Fermo. My husband is 100% fluent in Italian (he graduated from the U. of Pisa Faculty of Veterinary Medicine) and I speak well enough, so we don't need an English speaker. Thanks very much for the offer though.

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lindanoto
2/4/2017 08:36 EST

Good Luck! I adore the le Marche region, I have roots and family there in Belvedere Ostrense , only about 25 minutes out from the Airport in Ancona. My dream would be a littl place in town there to visit during the good weather and to balance out living here in Sicily.

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LisaC1
2/4/2017 22:24 EST

Thanks Linda! I was just telling my husband, once we move, maybe we can take a little break for 3 or 4 weeks during the winter to be in a warmer place such as Sicily.

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rsetzer99
2/5/2017 02:59 EST

After this last january im leaning in that djrection as well! :)

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lindanoto
2/5/2017 16:53 EST

Today was 23c with glorious hot sun . Everything is lush and green .
That is not to say we have not had bad weather. It was a strange and difficult winter ( like much of Italy) .
I love every region but after living 8 years in Maine before leaving the States, most of the rest in New England , and a 4 year stint in Minnesota - no more cold or snow for me. Forget that.

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rsetzer99
2/5/2017 17:21 EST

Warm, around 15C, but very windy in Abruzzo this last week. Better than February in Wisconsin any time.

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