sdwellers
3/18/2017 12:31 EST
My wife and I (US Citizens), are buying an apartment in a small town in Umbria...we would like to retire and spend at least 6 - 9 months per year in italy, and then 3-6 months with my folks in the USA. Any advice on which Visa to pursue? Just trying to surmise if we should just do the 3 months tourist visa and leave and come back or go for the Permissio Di Sorgiorno? I have read all the posts on residency requirements etc...so have an idea on requirements...
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JacksterJam
3/18/2017 13:23 EST
It is likely that the elective residence visa for retirees would be your only option for a stay of longer than 90 days. Keep in mind that if you reside in Italy for 183+ days in a calendar year, you will be liable to pay Italian income tax on your world-wide income, including pensions and social security benefits, as well as taxes on all foreign assets, city and regional taxes, etc.
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sdwellers
3/18/2017 13:25 EST
Thank you for that...can I ask you, if we stay for 90 days, do we have to leave country for 90 days before returning?
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LisaC1
3/18/2017 14:10 EST
Hi Jackster,
I am a bit confused by this:
" Keep in mind that if you reside in Italy for 183+ days in a calendar year, you will be liable to pay Italian income tax on your world-wide income, including pensions and social security benefits, as well as taxes on all foreign assets, city and regional taxes, etc. "
As you know, we will be moving in September and various forum members have told us that we will have to pay tax on our worldwide income from September through December 2017. I understand that we won't have to pay the wealth tax for this year but we are liable for income tax all the same.
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JacksterJam
3/18/2017 14:10 EST
After a 90-day stay, you will have to leave the entire Schengen area for 90 days before you can return.
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JacksterJam
3/18/2017 14:16 EST
Lisa, I believe that as a dual citizen, the taxation rules differ in terms of date-related requirements. I don't know how taxation rules apply to Italian citizens moving back to Italy at any given time during the tax year.
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JacksterJam
3/18/2017 14:21 EST
Lisa, another thought on the topic. I've also read elsewhere that what you have been told is true. Confirmation from a commercialista might be worth the time, if you haven't already talked with one.
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sdwellers
3/18/2017 14:50 EST
So do you think it would it be possible for us to at least obtain a Permesso di Soggiorno for an extended stay at least a couple/few times? Or is this the same as a "residency permit"?
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LisaC1
3/18/2017 14:51 EST
Hi Jackster,
I will definitely be speaking with a commercialista and will report back once I have an answer. I really don't understand, though, how a dual citizen would be treated any differently as far as establishing residency, though. I would think that anyone who is residing permanently in Italy would be subject to its income taxes. That seems like the fairest thing to me. Having said this, though, I know of a number of people (not dual citizens) who certainly live in Italy for more than half a year. They are not paying income taxes at all in Italy. Either they have been ill-advised or misinformed. It does not seem correct to me or the right thing to do.
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JacksterJam
3/18/2017 15:31 EST
sdwellers, I'm not sure what you mean by obtain a permesso di soggirono "at least a couple of times." As a U.S. retiree, if you want to stay in Italy for more than 90 days, you will need to apply for, and be issued, what is called the "elective residence" visa. Once you have that, within 8 days of arrival, you must apply for the "elective residence" Permesso di Soggiorno (permit to stay, or what some people call the "residence" permit). When you receive your first permesso di soggiorno, you will have to sign an Integration Agreement that states that you must attend a civics/culture class of 10 hours, learn the Italian language, and pass a written exam, take an oral exam (in Italian) on the Italian constitution, and, of course, follow all Italian laws, which includes tax laws. These are not "temporary" permits, although they must be renewed. As far as Italy is concerned, one's intent is to reside in Italy. The first permit is issued for a year, subsequent renewals are issued at two-year intervals. There are other visas available, each with their own requirements, which will also apply to the specific permesso di soggiorno required. If you are coming as a retiree and want to stay longer than three months, the "elective residence" visa/permesso is probably your only option. However, here is a list of the types of visas Italy issues: Schengen Tourist/Transit
Schengen Business
Study
Subordinate Work
Religious Activity
Dependents of U.S. Military
Civilian Employees Assigned to U.S. / NATO Bases
Family of non-EU citizens resident in Italy.
Elective Residency
Independent Work
Research
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JacksterJam
3/18/2017 15:56 EST
Sorry, the visa types were entered in list form, but this system put them in line form. With commas: Schengen Tourist/Transit,
Schengen Business,
Study,
Subordinate Work,
Religious Activity,
Dependents of U.S. Military,
Civilian Employees Assigned to U.S. / NATO Bases,
Family of non-EU citizens resident in Italy,
Elective Residency,
Independent Work,
Research.
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