adrianmarcantony
3/29/2017 13:17 EST
I have begun looking into attaining Italian citizenship and have run up against some confusion as to my status vis a vis this statement copied from the Italian Consulate: - descendant of Italian citizens who are eligible for and wish to have their Italian citizenship recognized Citizenship is passed on from parent to child without limitation of generation, on the condition that none of the ancestors has ever renounced or lost their citizenship. (link ricostruzione).
It was my understanding that if I had a parent who was born an Italian citizen, then I had a basis for attaining Italian citizenship myself. Here are the details: Both my parents are of Italian decent. My father's father renounced his Italian citizenship in 1905 in order to become a naturalized U.S. citizen. My father was born in Italy in 1916 and lived there until he was 9 years old. Despite this, he was considered to be a U.S. citizen through his father's naturalization. My mother was born in the U.S. in 1916 but her father made a petition for naturalization in 1917. Hence, she was an Italian citizen through her parents when she was born. She then became naturalized through her parent's petition sometime after 1917. My question is: do I have a claim to Italian citizenship through my mother, based on what I have described, or did this claim become void upon her father's petition for naturalization. Hoping for some clarity here, and thanking anyone in advance who might be of help.
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JacksterJam
3/29/2017 13:37 EST
From a citizenship website: "Your mother was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948 and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis."
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DoppioCittadino
3/29/2017 14:00 EST
At the time in question, your mother would have lost her Italian citizenship (presuming she was still a minor) when her father naturalized.
Secondarily, your mother could not have passed Italian citizenship to you if you were born before January 1, 1948; prior to that date, Italian citizenship was passed only by the father.
In either situation above, there is a good chance you could obtain Italian citizenship through a court challenge. There is at least one Italian attorney who specializes in these cases and had had numerous successes. Google "luigi paiano" for info.
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Sergios
3/29/2017 14:14 EST
You also have a right to move to Italy, without a visa, and establish residency. You can get your citizenship after 2 years of residency. You will need to get your permesso di sogiorno [based on your waiting for citizenship] Once you have the permesso, you get residency. It is a definite
advantage over all the other people that require a residency Visa. In my experience it is a much easier way to get your citizenship than waiting on the consulates. You still need to have all your documentation in order.
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adrianmarcantony
3/29/2017 15:23 EST
I was born after 1948, my mother was, I'm assuming, an American citizen through her father's naturalization, but she was born in America of Italian citizenship as her father did not apply for naturalization until a year after she was born. So, it seems like I don't have a claim?
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DoppioCittadino
3/29/2017 15:50 EST
There were some rule changes regarding derivative citizenship (what your mother got when her father naturalized) that took effect in the early part of the 1900's - specifically 1912 I think but cannot be certain.
Your simplest route may be as Sergios suggested. See the "ACQUISITION BY CLAIM" section on this page for details - http://www.esteri.it/mae/en/italiani_nel_mondo/serviziconsolari/cittadinanza.html
Your grandfather qualifies as a "second degree" ancestor, so you just get in under the wire.
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adrianmarcantony
3/29/2017 15:55 EST
Again, thanks for the replies regarding my questions about eligibility for Italian citizenship, all very helpful, and I have sent a note to the attorney in Bologna,
Luigi Paiano.
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DoppioCittadino
3/29/2017 15:58 EST
Apologies - I think both Sergios and I were actually speaking of citizenship by "NATURALISATION" as described on the page I linked above (unless you are actually well under the age of eighteen at this moment). It is a three year process, not two.
Note that, since it is a naturalization process, there are some additional requirements as compared to jus sanguinis. For one thing, you will have to demonstrate (at the end of the three year period, not the start) basic Italian language skills and knowledge of the Italian government and political system.
Sergios - correct me if I am wrong.
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Sergios
3/30/2017 03:08 EST
No, not naturalization. If, as you say your mother was still an Italian citizen at your birth after 1948, then you are an italian citizen by jure sanguinis. It is specified in article 7 of the 1912 law 555. Now you have the option of getting your citizenship recognized [not reinstated] by dealing with the consulate or you can come to italy and go through the comune. In my case it took about 8 months to complete because the agent I was using in Palermo was incompetent.
If, on the other hand, your mother lost her citizenship before you were born, it is the same process as above except that you are requesting to have your citizenship reinstated. The difference is that your children from before the reinstatement will not be italian citizens and they must also apply for reinstatement. For you, since it was your mother, you must maintain residency in italy for about 2 years. For them, your children, it is a three year residency.
The law, in italian, is below. Keep in mind that new laws have come into effect but they do not apply to people affected by the previous laws. Read this law carefully to fully understand what it says. Think of citizenship as cooties that you catch from your parents. If your mother or Father was an italian, then they pass it on to you. But if they were cured of their italianess, then you dont get it and have to ask italy to give it back to you. The law below is in Italian but you may find an english translation. You are interested in articles 7, 8, and 9. Where it says 2 years of residency, that has been reduced to "less than 1 year" for first degree [if you had been a citizens but lost it thru naturalization or other means. If you father or mother were citizens then it takes two years. If your grandparents were citizens, then 3 years. I also included a guide to go thru.
you.http://catlab.psy.vanderbilt.edu/palmeri/genealogy/wp-content/uploads/Cittadinanza%20ENG%20(detroit).pdf
http://www.amblima.esteri.it/resource/2007/03/12736_f_amb61Legge13giugno1912n_555sullacittadinanzaitaliana.htm
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DoppioCittadino
3/30/2017 08:56 EST
Sergios,
I thought the rule you are referencing would apply (in this case) only to the mother who was born an Italian citizen and then lost that citizenship.
I do not believe it applies to her son/daughter as son/daughter was never an Italian citizen and thus cannot use the reacquisition process.
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Sergios
3/30/2017 09:31 EST
Your eligible for citizenship if there is a direct Italian ascendant. You do not need to have been one yourself.
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adrianmarcantony
3/30/2017 10:54 EST
Sergios, I think you have it right. My mother, born in the U.S. to Italian parents who were still Italian citizens but who were seeking naturalization after my mother was born carried her along when they acquired U.S. citizenship. I was born after 1948, but if I proceed with this it will likely take 2 years.
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Sergios
3/30/2017 11:05 EST
Those two years in Italy are as a resident with previlages other than voting.
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DoppioCittadino
3/30/2017 14:59 EST
Sergios,
Okay, I get that, but how do you explain the differences between:
ACQUISITION BY CLAIM
FOREIGN DESCENDENTS OF ITALIANS UP TO THE SECOND DEGREE, OR BORN IN ITALY.
Foreign or Stateless descendents (up to the second degree) of Italian citizens can claim citizenship.
Requirements include one or more of the following:
service in the Italian armed forces;
employment by the Italian government, even abroad;
residence in Italy for at least 2 years before reaching the legal age of 18.
and...
NATURALISATION
Required legal residence in Italy for:
3 years for descendents of former Italian citizens up to the second degree and for foreigners born on Italian soil;
http://www.esteri.it/mae/en/italiani_nel_mondo/serviziconsolari/cittadinanza.html
I admit it, I am confused.
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JacksterJam
3/30/2017 15:40 EST
Doppio, I think the difference is between whether one's descendent remained an Italian citizen. For example, my grandfather gave up his Italian citizenship the year before my mother was born. Her older 12 siblings born to an Italian citizen, and their children (my cousins), can claim citizenship. By the time my mother was born, my grandfather had given up his Italian citizenship so I can't claim it, but I can go through the naturalization process after three years of residency in Italy. Since my mother was not an Italian citizen, I also can not go through her.
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JacksterJam
3/30/2017 15:54 EST
Doppio, I should add that that was how my situation, and that of my cousins, stands as explained to me by the Italian Ministry. I also didn't read the entire law on citizenship; only the part that applied specifically to my situation.
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DoppioCittadino
3/30/2017 16:32 EST
Jackster,
That is my understanding as well - Adrian's mother (if still living) can "reacquire" her citizenship but Adrian must use the "naturalization" process. The difference being that mother once actually had Italian citizenship whereas Adrian never did...
I'm still confused.
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JacksterJam
3/30/2017 17:11 EST
Doppio, Adrian's grandfather renounced his Italian citizenship, just as mine did, so she can't claim citizenship through him. As for citizenship through her mother, Adrian's mother did not re-claim her Italian citizenship; I suppose that if she had, Adrian might have been able to go through her mothe instead of naturalization. I am not sure I'm helping to clear up any confusion. lol
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Sergios
3/30/2017 19:11 EST
You can call it naturalization but it is different. Actual naturalization takes 10 years. This process is greatly abbreviated due to the Italian family connection. Additionally, because of that connection you are allowed to enter and stay in Italy with fewer restrictions as would be applied to a non Italian wanting to enter Italy.
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Sergios
3/30/2017 19:20 EST
The difference is that you are reaquirring a lost citizenship even though it was lost by your parent or grandparent.
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