Don't be amazed. Its common to see many expats take advantage of newcommers as they become self appointed Realtors and guides to the naive arrivals. The worse is to see how they are enriching their pockets by selling overpriced real Estate that you can probably purchase for half of that price by dealing with a local owners or licensed Realtors.

Unfortunately the new arrivals not speaking the language tend to navigate towards the English speaking expats and fall prey of their abuse. I have personally experienced this recently in Ecuador where I bought an ocean front apt in an older building for $60,000 where the expats realtors where guiding me to one for $180,000 telling me it was the least expensive available not knowing I speak the language as fluently as a native!

And by the way this activity is illegal because they do not have a working Visa and are definitely not a registered Real Estate professional.

These comments excludes the well meaning expats that are trying to create a new life for themselves and have acquired the proper visa and have taken the schooling and exams necessary to become a Real Estate professional in the country and have specialized in the English speaking Immigrant community. They are very professional and have been a blessing for those needing their services.
I too I'm a professional in the US and have to work my B.. off upgrading my professional knowledge every year to be able to renew my license and are very heavily supervised by the State as well as required to maintain a high level of professional ethics or lose my license.

This provides an excellent protection to the customers and makes all locals and foreigners customers feel safe and in good hands.
One of the many advantages of living in a first world country that regardless of its many faults is still an organized society where the rule of law its respected to a higher degree than in a 3rd world countries. This is something most of us forget or don't consider when moving to these worlds. Yesterday there was a lady in the Panama forum asking where she could find a plumber that spoke English and A friend of mine that was held up in Brazil was asked for money by the police to investigate the case!
Good luck to all but make sure you do your homework and know what you are doing before moving! Don't listen by the biased opinion of some others that either have financial motives or need company in their misery!

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off topic ?.....I am researching moving to panama w/my fience-we will be taking our first trip for at least a month soon.

I was wondering why Panama does not use MLS? I provide admin suport for a realtor/prop manager in New Orleans and that is one of the things I do for him.

Is it because property prices vary between native/"gringo" prices or that many people dont necessarly advertise?

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American expat living in Belize. Thinking of moving to Panama. Looking for a little more than sitting on the porch watching the waves roll in. DO NOT want to live in a big city but would like to have it available within an hours drive. Income is about 3500 USD a month. No apartment- prefer a house. any advice or phone # to call and talk. Thanks Tony

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Hey tony, I'm not a realtor but write me and I'll try to help with any questions you might have. ricobreeze@aol.com

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fithavenuekid,

What besides the bordom of just watching waves roll in would have you thinking of Panama over Belize? I am thinking of moving soon, if not for family concerns I would be in Ecuador now for a few months. Other countries I am planning to visit with the intention of moving are Belize,Panama and Nicaragua, I don't need a reason to go anywhere, only the thought but while I wait for family concerns to resolve I spend my time reading these forums and dreaming, also at my age I may not want to go to all 4 places, I am physically in good shape and I party hard but the wander lust though in tact is dimming so with the help of people on these forums I would like to narrow it down to two countries. I have a friend who owns a banna plantation in Nicaragua, a friend who owns a coffee plantation and a cattle ranch in Brazil and a friend who owns condominiums in Costa Rica but I am no longer in there league and I am sure they are are a bit biased.
Hope to here from you.



802mark,
This site has finally picked up some steam and you have helped, thanks. I enjoy reading your post but that one you did the night you where imbibing, wooh, it gave me an idea though, I have a kindred spirit out there, when I get there lets go out for a few or many, my treat you fill me in on Panama.

Bill

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Thanks bill, it's funny I post and post and have very few reply's but let me post one ugly one and boom!! everyone has something to say. LOL

I have been to belize and I can tell you it's a good place if you like clear ocean and jungle, for a week or two visit. To live there you got to be out there on the edge.

where to start.. well if you get sick, they will tell you to take the mia. express meaning you better go book a flight to the U.S. because we can't do a thing for you.

The roads there for the main part are crap.

the bugs will eat you alive.

the duty to bring in goods is 80 to 100 percent.

That's the reason that when you do find a place to stop to shop they don't have much. power is high there, so finding cold drinks can be a problem in many areas.

every cow I saw had huge blow fly boils on them, and a blow fly will lay a egg in you just as fast.

many cars and trucks are old rusted out junk because of the duty to bring new ones in.

The country is broke. once england handed it over, the people in charge stole everything they could grab.

tv, cell/home phones, and computer service is crap, go and complain and they will tell you they could care less, why because when I was there, there was one.

They had just talked the people there into allowing the government to borrow their S.S. funds to back a new phone company that would really change things there. with the promise to repay all of it plus a lot more.
they did that, the company bought a few trucks, slapped out some great ad's and after a few months, filed bankruptcy and left. the money was said to have been split between the government and this puppet company. o well you lost again.

so they don't have any funds to do anything even if they wanted to better the country. They charge like 20.00 per night per hotel room extra for a government tax. so a 40 per night room has to be 60.00.

many parts are very low and I found standing water on much of it. add to that a couple of hard storms that hit them and it's not a place you want to call home.

police and fire dept and hospital workers are few and far between.

I don't care for nicaragua either, there are a lot of left over army guys there with weapons and power. They take what they want, and to do anything there, they have their hands in it.

ecuador I have never been.

costa rica is a beautiful country, but since the tourist trade has all but died, the crime rate has shot off the carts. They are still looking for around 10 tourist that have gone missing in the past two years. expats are trying to get out, but the real estate market has tanked, they say the crime rate is one reason, the other is without the tourist trade the government is forced to make up money from some place, hum o yea TAXES. and who do they hit with them the hardest? yep good ole expats who live in all those 200k plus homes.. ahhh how sweet. If they outlawed the sex trade there, there would be zero tourist in that country.

colombia, wow what a wonderful place, great people, clean, I couldn't believe how clean the city was. I would pull up to a red light and look down at the side street, and not see as much as a marlboro butt. go back to the states and do that, and I would see a few thousand butts, bottles, glass, cans, condoms, a shoe, parts of a dead dog and the kitchen sink at each stop.

I would walk down the street and every single person that passed by would look me in the eye and say hello, or good day. I have never seen that much love in a country before.
The problem there thou is the FRAC. If they ever stop that, I'll be packing to move back. But right now it's not safe, you might be there for 5 years without a problem but one day it will find you. I've hiked my share of jungle, slept in trees, and ate what we found, but never chained to 5 other people for a year or more looking at the wrong end of a gun.

Panama just seemed to fit me, roads are good, and getter better, they are pouring money into all of them as I write this, they bought a ton of new city buses, and trash trucks, they are making the canal larger, they are starting a underground train system, their hospitals are really great, with some U.S. backed and doctors trained.

They use the u.s. dollar, which is a good and bad thing. They are use to seeing americans, because we have been here 100 years. Their whole army was shut down and all those guys were trained to become police officers, so you don't have to look very far to find one.

we have thousands of expats here. You can be in the mountains or on a beach within 30 mins. the weather here is perfect. hot thou in the low areas, spring time weather in the higher areas. no need for a/c or heaters. panama is a major city, with night live and great places to eat.

The city for me has it's draw backs thou, it's hot there, there are around 2 million out of the 3 that live here there, they have power and water shortages from time to time, it's noise level is to much. parking is a nightmare, they don't seem to think having parking spots more then three is needed. They don't use address's on anything, nor is there a mail service here. pobox type places are the only thing, like mail box ect.

It's safe here thou, crime is low for a place like this, many people are just hard working people trying to put food on the table.

True story, my buddy and I were out drinking, yes I know, anyway he went home and he dropped his money clip, which had around 1200.00 in it. he came back to the bar and we looked for it, nothing, serached the car, nothing. he said well someone must have seen it here and took it.

the next mourning his yard man who is around 65 years old, was out there working until he walked outside, the old man walked over and said sir I found this in the driveway. 1200.00. That is equal to him working for around 6 months. My buddy handed him 200.00 and thanked him.

Can you understand how honest this man had to be to do that? It's like a guy with millions putting a 20.00 bill in the church plate, and a old lady worth 200.00 putting a 20.00 in, which gift has more meaning?

Panama wants you to come here and retire, and they make it easy for you to do that, low level of income is needed, and once your approved you get discounts on all kinds of things, even eating out.

so I picked panama, it fit me all around better then any other place I have been. It's been 6 years living here and I have no regrets.

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That was by far the best post I have ever read! I always read your posts because you always give good advise, but you really outdid yourself. WOW! I have been researching like crazy for months and never got this kind of information.
I've been working my butt off getting all the paperwork to apply for a pensionado visa to Costa Rica, but now I'm not sure. Panama was my second choice and I was considering Nicaragua. I was within a hair of arranging another trip to Costa Rica this summer, but maybe a trip to Panama might make more sense. I am single and expect to do a lot of traveling before I settle down anyway. I know the process for applying for a visa for Panama is a lot easier than CR. I liked Bocas Del Toro a lot, but it seemed real remote.
Any suggestiong? Your amazing.

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Bluewind, go to craigs list, click on costa rica then click on rants and raves and start reading the many post there. They get after each other pretty hard on there, but many post are how bad costa rica is.

It is great your doing research on these places that is a very smart move on your part, but you must take a very hard look at the sites your looking at and what is being told on them. It's all ice cream and sugar land. fun fun fun the most wonderful place in the world.

They are selling something and it's not called truth. to many, this is the only way they can make a living or be able to sell you their home so they can get out.

It's not easy to make the change from the states to any place down here, you are going to run into roadblocks from time to time but it's how you handle those, and how they effect you as a person that will make you ok with it, or crazy to the point you just throw your hands up and leave.

everyone that moves to these places must be able to leave their U.S. mind set at home. things don't run like they do where your from, and for many they try to change these people ways. That will not happen, so your the one that will have to adjust.

panama has everything costa rica does with a ton less of the bad things.

duty is far cheaper
taxes are far cheaper, some homes have 20 year tax free.
health care is better
less crime
more police
better roads
us dollar
far richer people here
canal income which takes the tax burden off the people.
lots of expats
nice golf courses
many more banks
new city buses
underground train system being put in

let me talk about real estate. we have been hit just like the world on this down turn. there are hundreds of condos here that american's put down money on, planning to move here, and when it hit back home they lost their money. so those units are sitting there which can be picked up at a reduced cost. also homes that were bought with the idea of being able to live here 6 months then go back to the states, then they lost their investment money and are forced to sell their home here to be able to live off of it in the u.s.

with the housing market in the u.s. so soft right now, people here can sell their home for a better price and go to the u.s. and buy the same size home for half many here hate to do that, but they have lost their income as well and that is how they see being able to live. the draw back to that is they are back in the u.s. where taxes are going up on that home and services are being cut. where police officers are handing out tickets left and right to bring in money for the broke states while crime is going un checked.

bocas del toro;;

I find that this place is a young persons surfer type hang out. it is remote, if you love the ocean and boating is your thing it's a good fit. but you also have to look at the fact that many of those islands don't have power or water, many of the kids were born there, and there is very little work for them, so they hang out and smoke pot and end up stealing. It's more for tourist and your going to be paying tourist prices to eat out as well.

There is not much there to do, outside of fishing and water sports. the people there end up partying and drinking for the most part. If that's the lifestyle you are looking for then it might be a good fit for you.

Any place you pick you will have draw backs. What I did was pick a place where I was close enough to it all. I live in the mountains, I am 30 mins driving time to the ocean. another hour to the city. I hate the city, but I have to go from time to time, so I can pop in and be out fast. If it's raining here in the mountains I can pop down the hill and spend the day on the beach. If I need the nightlife we'll go to the city for a day. so when I wake up depending on what I feel like doing I'm a short drive to it all. if your in bocas and you have to go to the city your spending 12 hours on a bus.

many post seem to be good ones on where they live, even if it's not true because they can't face the fact that they are stuck there and it's hard to say we made a mistake, If I felt that way I wouldn't still be living here going on 6 years I would have long been gone. I have spend years in the places I write about, none is based on a weeks run at it where everything seems cool because it's NEW. The only place I didn't spend years in was belize because in the short weeks I was there was more then enough to allow me to say this place isn't for me, far to many draw backs from the start.

I post here only because I hope that someone will read it and check into it before they ruin their lives, many times the move will drain all your savings and you have one shot to get it right. Your then stuck in a place once the new wears off where your not happy and then you don't have the means to move on.

I picked panama based on all the facts between these places and found it was the overall best. Not because I have a ax to grind with any of these other places. I can live anyplace in the world I wish.

do you have any idea how great it is, to wake up to spring time weather everyday, watch birds and butterflies zooming all over the place, walk out and pick three kinds of fruit right off my trees, look at a huge circle of mountians, not be scared to allow my girls to play and run in the front yard, not be kept up all night with the sounds of gun fire and car radios blasting base tones, and police horns screaming, or having to watch out for crack heads that will steal anything they can grab, ssshhshshhhh listen, "The Sound of Silence"

ask yourself, what am I selling? what I'm I offering for money? would I gain anything by you or anyone moving here? well that last question I must be honest and say YES. I would gain something from you moving here. a new friend

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I agree with bluewind, I have read all of your post and enjoyed them but you just out did your self, this is what we who are still trying to work this out need, not hearing we need to come down and check it out ourselves, anyone who has made it this far can figure that out for themselves. Belize was last on my short list so after reading your post it was easy to check that one off. Columbia was a thought at one time but the FARC was my reason for checking that one off. Ecuador is still high on the list, I will at least visit it because I want very much to meet some of the poeple I feel I have become friends with from the Ecuador forum. My Nicaraguan friend went to Panama to check it out for us and his report along with your post puts it back near the top.

Thanks for your post, there have been some other good posters but no one seems to stay around long, please keep it up, you know that we need it and we want you to know we appreciate.

Thanks

Bill

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thanks bill that means a lot to me. I am just happy that what little I posted helped someone.

If anyone has a question just let me know I will try my best to help you if I can. the main thing I do is I don't pull any punches, and put lipstick on a pig. it is what it is and that's the info people trying to make up their mind has to have.

Many sites I have read are full of it, just trying to get you hooked into something to grab your cash.

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Although I am planing to go to Panama to consider a move there, I would like to clear up some posts about Belize. I have lived here for 2 yrs now in the corozal area known as Consejo shores.. No we dont have malls, shopping centers , movie houses etc. Most roads suck and the people are not that expat friendly. However unless you live in Belize city the crime is almost a non issue. The electric is stable 99 % of the time. If your looking for a really laid back life watching the waves come in than Belize MIGHT be for you. We take a quick 10 min boat ride to Chetmaul Mexico to get the mall, shopping and movie thing. There is a sams club and plenty of resturants and night life there, then back to Consejo for lots of peace and quiet. So why would I consider Panama?? Mexico is getting to be the place you DONT want to go to. Things are getting BAD all over their country and without the advantage of going to "chet" it can get real boring here. The MAJOR benifit of Belize is its an ENGLISH speaking country and all legal and non legal paperwork is in English. Cars and trucks are crap here so bring your own. The QRP program allows you to bring in ONE duty free. As well as household goods not to exceed 10,000USD. I am not entirely unhappy here but with the hassle that going over the border has become puts a damper on things. So dont just check off Belize. Its not as bad as some make it out to be. My wife and I speak very little Spanish so I may find that Panama is more of a hassle ( language wise) than going over the border to Mexico.

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ColoradoBill. The major reason is having to go to Chetumal Mexico to get malls, resturants and shopping. It has gotten harder and more expensive to get there, and truth be known, you can get all the basics in Belize but not much else..

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Thanks 5thave, I was raised in Florida and love the beach but there is a reason I live in Colorado, I think I would be happier in the hills and drive to the beach like 802mark. Belize was a long shot and Marks post finished off, I needed to strike two of my 4 possibles off so now I just need one more off the list. Looks like we might have to go to Panama and be 802marks new best friends, that might a good thing.

Keep posting, I like this.

Bill

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