We plan to move to Panama. We have visited a few times and read as much as possible. Your honest article is much appreciated. We also met someone on our last visit who was more honest than most: some information was disturbing but we still believe we will be better off overall. Life seems to be getting more and more difficult world wide.

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Mark802

Have I told you recently that you're a star?

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can I be a rock star??? they seem to have all the dang fun!!! lol.. thanks I appreciate you taking the time to post that.

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Thank you for all the great information on Panama, Mark! My wife and I will be on a recon visit there in 3 weeks.

My question to you is .... how much does gasoline cost, on average?

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Mark, excellent advice…. as always. Hopefully people considering a move to Panama will take your advice.

I have lived in Panama for six years, off and on from 1990 to 1999. Mark's information was accurate in 1999 when we left to come back the States and it is true now. My wife is from Panama and we are planning on moving back in a couple of years to retire for good. We go back to visit every two years or so and very little has changed in the interior where she is from. To me, that’s a good thing because we are looking for a slower paced life than we have now. You will certainly find that in the interior if that’s what you are looking for.

Here is another thing to ponder if you are considering a move: You will have to adapt to the way things are done in Panama - you should not expect Panama (or her citizens) to adapt to you! I love Panama, but it is still a third world country. Things move slowly there and there is no reason for them to hurry up and do anything – especially in any governmental capacity. If you can’t adapt to the mañana attitude, please don’t relocate there – you will not be a happy camper!

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last week I looked and reg gas per gal was 4.00 like I said some things are cheaper here and some things are higher here and some things are about the same.

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Thanks for taking the time to write an honest account, Mark. It is much appreciated, since as you know, there are many folks out there giving the rosy"$1200 a month" view.

The question I have for you is --would you RATHER live in Panama than any place else, even with the "negatives"? Or, would you go back to the U.S, or some other place?

The way of life as you describe it there (the "cheap" way, not the Gringo way) is pretty similar to how my husband and I live right now. We live WAY below our means so we can eat out, travel and SAVE money for our 6 month recon to Panama and beyond. We live in a small rental, share one older (1995) pickup truck and don't splurge on material goods. We do eat out, not extravagantly, though.

What I am saying is that it would not be much of a culture shock to us to downsize our standard of living, and I guess this would work in our favor.

As for buying a 250k house, for us, that's neither a desire, nor an option. We hope to be able to telecommute and earn U.S dollars while we are down there, but we have enough money saved up to live and travel pretty well while we are there. I would definitely agree that no one should jump on a plane and think they are headed to Shangri-La, no matter where they are going!

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Hi Susan

To reply to your first question I would rather be here in Panama hands down. I am not stuck here by any means. I could sell off what I have down here at a really huge profit and move someplace, but there isn't a place that I can say yes we would be better off there.

I still own a home in memphis, 9k sq ft, huge pool, basketball court, sitting on 5 acres all for 500k any takers? I can't sell it. I also own the one next door to it, 6500 sq ft on 4 acres, in door pool 295k, commerical property your after? two trailer parks with rental trailers 500k, a whole city block with a 25k sq ft building use to be a car dealership, 500k, these are just a few things that I couldn't sell off before the dollar tanked.

Now I understand that right now it's a buyers market in the u.s I could sale off everything here in panama for 5 times what I paid for it, and go back and buy anything for 40 cents on the dollar right now. but the draw backs to living in the u.s. makes it a place I don't want to be. plus I don't see the u.s. ever turning it around that one day whatever I buy there will be worth anything.

higher property taxes, less services, police writing tickets left and right to get income for their city, high crime rate, drugs, gangs, white on black crimes, the list goes on and on.

You know down here there isn't any drugs being sold or used by these school kids, even the teenagers. when you have two little girls in school what a blessing to me not to worry about that. These kids are not violent unlike u.s. kids that fight, stab and shoot each other. there is no race war here either, white, black, brown, tan, whatever they mainly look at you as a panamaian. unlike the u.s. where the blacks and whites stay pretty much within their own circle. They mix and blend more here. saying that thou, there are parts of this country where you will find darker skinned people more as a whole. that's because that's where they landed here years ago and dug in to that area and never left it.

If you get outside of any gringo area you can find a home a heck of a lot cheaper. you can live here on the cheap but 1200.00 per month to me is just just cutting it far to close.

I have everything that is major for life paid for down here so I don't have a car note, or a house note and I still will go through 2 to 3k per month. of course I have two little girls who I spoil to death, we go out to eat a lot, go on trips a lot within panama, I drink and smoke so theres a money pit right there, I also have 4 full time people who work for me.

I would say to you if your living that kind of lifestyle now in the u.s. you should be able to make it here as well. when was the last time you got your teeth cleaned for 20.00? or saw a doctor for 20.00? can you hire a full time maid for 250.00 per month? how long did it take for someone to stop and help you if you were broke down on the side of the road? I blew a back tire out on the main highway and only had time to get the back door open on my suv before two guys in a big truck stopped and not only helped but changed it for me while I stood there and watched them.. and I am a 49 year old man very able to change a tire.

these are some of the things you will find down here. many of the food stables the poor buy are capped by the government. like rice. chicken. cooking gas is another one that they put a price cap on. smaller tanks are far cheaper then the larger ones that all companies must use. I have seen the govenment bring in a large truck full of 20 pound bags of rice for 7.00 and sell it to everyone in that area.

My main point to everyone is you might be able to live here on 1200.00 but it's a low no thrills type of life. people on web sites want you to believe for that kind of money you can live here high on the hog and that's just not the case.

people who move here must understand that at first it will be great, it's all new and for many of us who have grown up in the big cities it's a wonderful site to see jungles, and untouched area's, clear streams, wild parrots ect. that will last for three months or so, then you will miss things back home, this all will pass in time here, and you will come full circle to where your happy here. it does take time for that to happen. I have not been to the u.s. in over 6 years and have no plans to go back.

on eating out, you can eat out here for around 4 to 5.00 at a local place. food is really good, service will not be. the local beer here is around .60 cents a bottle. I have eaten out all over this place as well as mom and dad stands on the side of the road and have never gotten sick from it. water here is very safe to drink, and in el valle it's better then the bottle water your buying at the store right out of the tap.

that being said, don't over do it either, your going to be eating things your not use too, or it being cooked not look your use to. also your going to be in areas that are hotter, wetter, and higher up then your use to as well. add that with stress of travel and it might run you down a little.

biggest error I made down here is to go to the beach with my lilly white booty, it was not really hot, and the clouds were covering the sun for most of the day, and I got burned big time. I blame it on the rum and cokes but no matter why, I was cooked. You know how it is when your so red your hot and then cold, that was me for four days. so keep that in mind. also when your out and about drink water, more then you would back home..

We went down the mountain to a small town the other day and it was around 12 degrees hotter down there then I am use to up here, when I got home I couldn't drink enough water to refuel my body and wasn't feeling well the rest of the day. so please keep that in mind and drink it even thou you don't think you want to or need too, because it will slip up on you.

also keep in mind this is a rain forest. there are snakes, bugs and spiders here many won't harm you but a few will. coral snakes and fer de lances are here and can make you very sick if your hit by one. if you can, kill it and bring it with you so they will know what got you. My yard man found a 8 ft boa in my hedge row last week. my cats were happy to see him removed and set free someplace else.

this is not to scare anyone please note that.. back home I had cotton mouth, rattlers, brown and black widow spiders. I don't see anymore snakes and spiders here then back home. just be aware they are here and what to do if you find one.

I took a walk with some local people here down a river it was so wondeful, it was like going back in time. to see the clear water and how it cut huge holes in the rocks and to see giant trees that had their whole root systems growing on top of the rock, I had walked up to some hanging vines that hung over my path, they were coming down from a large tree, I had gotten half way in them and this long green snake slipped down the vine so he could be nose to nose to me, Now until that day I thought that it was a huge miracle that Jesus walked on water, I did it that day and I think I beat his time!!!

You really don't have to worry about mosquitoes, dengue fever or malaria here. It is here and every once in a while you will hear of a out break some place but it is not common and you won't need shots to protect yourself from it. We have never had a problem with it at all

one thing I do find is there isn't as many mosquitoes as I had back home. I can at least sit outside at night without being carried off. back home at dusk you had to get inside. I think its because when the canal was being built many died from dengue fever or malaria and when the u.s. took the job over they had high counts as well, so we came down here and started a war on mosquitoes and pretty much wiped them out.

what I have seen here is it seems to come in waves at certain times of the year. like they are here and then gone. like flys, mosquitoes, and termites. they seem to have a breeding cycle that they will be all over the place for a two week time frame and then be gone.

ANTS... ants are king here. no matter what you do your going to have ants in your home and in your yard. you can go to battle with them and cut down their numbers but your NEVER going to stop them from being in your home. I couldn't start to count the kinds of ants that are here. If one of my kids spills a drop of sweet tea on the floor, within 10 mins there is 1,254 ants there cleaning it up.. yes I counted them I might be off one or two because I think I counted one of them twice. but that's how it is here. learn to live with it. we have little gecko's that will live with you as well. they will make a chirping sound that will make you jump the first time you hear it, many people hate the fact they are living with you, but these little guys eat their weight in mosquitoes and other bugs. the only draw back to them is they do poo a little black pellet with a spot of white on the tip and you will find that everywhere. I leave the porch light on at night that brings in the bugs and I bet there is around 50 gecko's living behind that light, they love it, the food comes to them. I have one I named george, he thinks he is better then all the rest just because his brother works for geico and is on tv a lot, he brags about it all the time. The others are sick of hearing about it.

we have very large toad frogs down here as well, very smart ones at that, one found my cat door and comes in and eats the cats food. I took him out to the river and set him free only to find him in the house the next night, after a few times doing this, I took him for a ride in the golf cart to the other side of the valle and set him free, so far he hasn't shown back up, of course it's kind of hard to flag down a taxi when your so small.

These are just a few small things that most people wouldn't even think about that down here makes it all fun and wonderful to sit back and get in touch with the world. I never had time to do any of this back in the states. never saw it, pass right by it in high gear.

I'm sitting here right now as I write this and looking out the window at a huge stand of bamboo that must be 60 ft tall, I have the window open and a cool breeze is flowing in with just a hint of perfume that is mixed with many kinds of flowers. The clouds are just peaking over the top of the mountain range that circle us, there are two birds I call rebels and yankees on my front porch table eating their fill off a fresh cut stalk of banana's my yard man just cut. I named them that because one is blue and the other is gray. They both have seemed to put the past war behind them and are working together to peel the skin back. My female cat is laying by my arm sound asleep without a care in the world, a large blue butterfly the size of my hand flew by 5 mins ago and there are around 50 yellow and white ones zooming all over the front yard. A group of 20 or so small green parrots landed in one of my orange trees a while ago and lucky for me they didn't stay long, they can be very loud. right now I see my wife and two daughters coming down the driveway from picking her up from school,, lord you can take me now, because it will NEVER get any better then this.

no matter where this letter finds you take time out to enjoy your day. tell someone today that you love them, give a hug and kiss to someone and get one in return. be safe, be wise and be well... love you all..

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802Mark, if anybody can read this post and not at least think about moving to Panama, they must either already be living in a paradise or they are nuts! Maybe using the word paradise isn't the right word, because you do describe some of the problems that would have to be dealt with or tolerated (bugs), but seriously, that's not a big deal considering all the benefits to living in Panama. I could almost picture you on your porch with your cat along with the bugs and loud birds enjoying a nice evening. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
By the way, I am a retired teacher and am currently substituting. Most people have no idea of how bad it is in many of our schools. You'd have to see it to believe it. The violence is off the charts in many of the schools. Most of them are in semi-lockdown mode. The police are everywhere. Young kids with a probation officer are common. Your kids are VERY LUCKY to not have to deal with this. You and your family are very fortunate to have what you have, bugs, loud birds and all.

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You have a really hard job there, I stand up for you and what you do, there is no way I would do it or put up with it. I remember back when I was 14 I went to a public school and my dad pulled me out after a month. Back then whites and blacks were always fighting, you couldn't sit in a class room and learn because kids would be yelling and not hearing a word from any of the teachers. The teachers hands where tied to do anything. I know the school system has gotten far worse. I read today that they might have to shut down the public schools in memphis due to lack of funds.

which I find funny because it seemed that every year they were adding more taxes to your home to help pay for these schools and they even added a 25.00 charge to every car tag that was suppose to be only two years to help pay for a/c for all those schools, which they never removed. That was 20 plus years ago. still getting that money.

I might not be right on this but I tell you what I would do if I had the power to do it. I would close every public school across the u.s. fire every teacher, sell every book, bus and school property. Fire all school board members.

I then would hire the top teachers in the u.s. to produce whatever class and grade level and record it. I would use public tv to play these lessons. 24/7. channel 1 first grade, on up to channel 12. have one test at the end of that years class, they would come to a building like a football stadium and take the test, if passed, they would get recorded and move on a grade, if not set back again.

every kid has a tv. or can get to one. this would allow kids to take the lessons at home, and on their time. it would also allow for grown ups who might need it as well, that could sit at home and learn.

I don't have the numbers on what the public schools need to run all year but I am betting it would be huge.

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802 Mark. Your post was very enlightening as to who you are giving advice about living in Panama. Being a self proclaimed millionaire / land Baron from Tenn.. I don't know how many,of your followers on this post are also in the same socio-economic bracket as you, but there are many people who are "just plain folk" without the monetary resources you evidently have, that are interested in a laid back life style in another country. My idea of relocating to Panama / Belize / or wherever, is not to sit at some Gringo bar, boozing with other Gringos. You seem to have alot of info on things there, but be aware not everybody wants to live like you. When we were there in Las Lajas in March, we met a Canadian who had a house on the beach, living a frugal but satistfying life. No, his house wasn't 10,000 sq ft like one of your many properties in the states, but a modest 1800 sq ft.. However his quality of life seems to equal your existence. By the way, our first night in Panama was in El Valle, even used the library for a quick internet connection, but even though the locals were nice, the mountains were not our deal. Being from California beaches, we were just too far from the ocean.

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Hi Mark,

Memphis?! I KNEW you were a fellow Tennessean...I live in Franklin (mid-state) and I have 2 kids at UT (Knoxville). I have been to Memphis several times. Mainly for ribs...blues...King Tut..well you know.

So you are down there drinking sweet tea...my husband will be glad to hear that, and also that you named a gecko..we named our squirrels up here.

As far as bugs..we lived in AZ (and CA...don't get me started on that!) for 8 yeasr...so we know all about having scorpions in the house, tarantulas, rattlesnakes, even javelinas and mountain lions, in the yard. You are right about themosquitoes here in the South..they will carry you off. We also had the cicadas this year, which you are no doubt familiar with.

Thank God we don't own any real estate...I am in mortgage compliance, saw this mess coming in 2005, and got out. We are happy renters of a 2 bd/1 bath duplex. Yes, it's tight when the kids come home from college, but they go up to their dad's in Nashville sometimes, and with our very low cost of living (NO debt!), my daughter and I just took a very nice trip to Greece.

You sound like a very happy guy, which is so encouraging...we are going to be putting out faith in the Lord, quitting our jobs for (at least) 6 months, and looking at alternative income sources, so it is good to hear that the place we want to use as our "base of operations" is a good choice. Your description of the natural world really paints a lovely picture.

If you have heard of Franklin, it's kind of like Mayberry. It's really a wonderful place to raise kids. People are civil (for the most part, and it's the good ol' Southern culture. It's just dismal in the winter and humid and miserable in summer. We just walked home form the Bluegrass Festival, complete with clogging, where the biggest crime was a kid had cigarettes (lady cop took the and threw them in the trash). It is a very nice place all around, but still, it;s in the U.S. and we all need to explore options outside the US these days. We are so tired of paying $500 month for health insurance, and never meet the stupid deductible.

Oh by the way, we know very little Spanish, but we will try to learn...my husband lived in AZ his whole life, and you almost learn it by osmosis there, so he's ahead of me.

People stopping to help you change a tire sounds a lot like here in mid-TN...years ago, Billy Ray Cyrus was my neighbor and he stopped to help my ex change a tire!

In any case, my hubby and I want to get off the "work-buy-consume-die" plan, live slowly and deliberately, and it is just getting impossible here. We both both, sometimes conflicting schedules, and never see each other. That's not a life!

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I enjoyed reading your input. Even when I was teaching, I knew the problem was never money. The problem is where and how the money is spent. It's the old trickle down theory. What's left over goes to the students and teachers. Like any big business, greed rules.
As far as the teachers are concerned there are a lot of teachers that just shouldn't be teaching, but there are also many that leave because of lack of support and increased demands placed on them. I'd like to see someone come up with a way to give an eighth grader a test that reads at the third grade level and, if they don't pass, you lose pay or your job. Now that's stress (for the kids too).
I agree the educational system needs to be dismantled and started all over again. It is just too broken to fix. Throwing money into it is not the answer, just a waste of money.

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It might be helpful if you read other posts from 802Mark. This last post was the first time he ever talked about his property in Tenn. No matter what his financial situation is, he will give you an honest opinion about the good and bad of living in Panama (and he's not trying to sell something). I've been reading posts on many websites for a long time now, and the information he gives is very hard to find. Yes, he apparantly lives a life in Panama I couldn't possibly afford, but that isn't the point. The information he freely gives is what is important, not how he lives. He was just being real.

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Ok I read your post, I want to clear up some things. first off I am not rich by any means. I try to keep my bank account very slim. I started working when I was 14 and every dollar I ever made my dad made me save it and helped me buy something with it. He told me a long time ago I could make a lot more money putting it to work for me, then having it sit in a bank and draw little from it. If I sold a property today I would spend that money the following week. land has value, money does but its going down every day.

I own around 15 acres all total in tenn, wouldn't call that a land baron by anyone's standards. If I sold it all I would have a nice bank roll, but I can't sell it. That was the purpose of writing that, not to brag about anything.

I might just be taking your post the wrong way but it sounds like your poking a stick at me in a nice round about way.

If you go back and read my post on here, you will find tons of info. not
for rich folks only, but for just plain folks. what parts are safer then others, what to bring, what to leave, how things work down here, and what things cost just to name a few.

I know that money doesn't make anyone happy, and I have found people who live here that have nothing and smile all day long. the size of ones home or the number of zero's in the account has nothing to do with it at all.

The home I bought here in el valle is one of the first that was ever built here. It's old, around 3k sq ft. I didn't buy it for the home, I bought if for the 4 acres it sits on along main street. there is where the money is. But the house is fine for us and we are happy here. There are home's here you could put mine inside of a few times.

I drive a 2006 hyundai terracan I bought new for 22k while my buddy here drives a hummer he paid 89k for. My car gets me to the same places as his, just for a heck of a lot less. makes me no never mind, I am not here to try to impress anyone. he wears a 25k watch, mine is a 38.00 casio, but they both have the same time on them.

el valle isn't for everyone. nor is panama for that matter. as far as beaches, I can be sitting on it from my home in 35 mins. that's plenty close for me. having lived on the beach living with sand inside your home, in your bed and everywhere else isn't my cup of tea, and down on the beaches here your going to run a a/c a lot. unless your really use to the heat.

I state my opinion on here, which is from my views of what it is. All of you know that, it's up to you to do your own research and find what works for you. things here change like the weather, even laws, what is ok today might not be the next. what to me is very high priced might not be to you. that's why I post a avg home in this area will cost you 250k and up.

If that is out of one's reach that's fine, there are other homes in other area's that can be bought for 50k and up. There is one thing about me you should understand, if you live in a 100 million home, or if you live in a 50.00 tent I treat you both the same. There are people who live across the street from me who could buy and sell me ten times over, and I wave and say hello jose, hows the kids.

I have been lucky enough to meet the president here twice, and both times I found him to be humble and down to earth as the guys who work for me. both times he was in jeans and a t-shirt and went out of his way to come over and shake my hand and say hello. The man's worth around 800 million dollars. That's just one more thing I love about this country. I'm a no body gringo who couldn't even vote and he took time out to say hello.

my reasons for posting here are many. for one thing I knew no one when I first came here, so I paid a lot of money for things I shouldn't have. I made a lot of mistakes and errors, that I learned from and am trying to pass those lesson's on for free so you won't make the same ones.

I also post here because many sites are out right lie's which is for many the only source of info they can find about this country. I don't push el valle because I have something to gain by doing it. web site people do have something to gain, something to sale, they will help you for a fee. If someone ask me about shipping in a ford truck I tell them the stuff that they will charge you for that they didn't tell you about. They lie, they will tell you 2k to get it in, and once it's here the price will be a lot more, they have you and they know you will pay the extra to get your things. no web site is going to tell you that. three months to get a visa? maybe now you might get it, but when I came here people were waiting years for it. no site tells you that. They don't tell you about some roads that are really bad. Even here in el valle the main road just got repaved, but many of the side roads are nothing more then rocks and sand.

you talked about belize, I had read all the web sites about the place, went down there and looked it over, and it's got far to many draw backs that no one spoke of. while there I met a man who had one of those sites, and I told him to his face that his site was nothing but lie's and he only pointed out the few goods things that were there, he said yes I know, I said then why? he said because he had a lot of property he was trying to sell so he could get out of belize.

anyway good luck to you on your search I do hope you find what will make you happy. I wish that I had known you were in town so we could have had time to meet and talk face to face and you would have gotten to know me and I you. maybe then after I understood what your looking for I could have pointed you towards it, or at least towards the right people who might could have helped you.

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AHHH so your one of those redneck girls.. yeeahhh hawwww... know franklin well, have a lady friend who has a home there. Talk about a sleepy town that went boom when the country stars started buying there..

yes I am drinking sweet tea as I write this. the cicadas down here are about the same but they do a weird sound, unlike the ones back home, they sound more like a police siren.

glad you sold and got out when you did, I started and got rid of a lot but not all. Now I know I'm stuck with it unless I give it away cheap.

good ribs here are hard to come by so is good bbq. they don't know what fried catfish is either.

A while back I took my mom with me so we could do our grocery shopping and see looked down the veg dept and turned to me and said do you see what I see? orka!! there might have been four packs left, we both went for it, and even thou I did try to block her cart the old girl beat me to it.

they have not carried it since. it's was priced high too. about three weeks later we were all going to the beach and I happen to look over and saw a field of flowers and pulled over, it was a field of orka, I knew the flower right away. the guy sold me a 5 lb bag for 4.00. I got mom one too. we cut it up dusted them and froze it all. It's the little things you miss down here, sometimes you get lucky and find it.

I know all to well what your talking about "work-buy-consume-die" plan and your right it's time to slow it down and take in whats around you.

well glad to hear from you. if you need anything give me a holler!!

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OK, Ya caught me. I was being a smartass. My point was, as you reiterated, not everyone can afford 250K for a house. I don't begrudge you for what you've earned. I understand not being able to liquidate properties in the US. That's why I'm still in Fl. I appreciate your info, cuz my trip to Panama was far too short to gather much data. ( I did get a nice watermelon in Santiago, though.) However, I can't resist one more "poke". I drove from the library in El Valle to the Pan Am and it took 25 min. How in the heck can you be on the beach in 35?? PS: I have the same watch !

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AHHH HAAA I KNEW IT, I KNEW YOU WERE BEING A SMART ASS.. I love you thou.... thanks for stepping up and telling the truth...

ok so it took you 25 mins to get from el valle to pan american highway... ok all you had to do was turn left go one half block and take the first right and go about a mile maybe less and your sitting on the beach brother...

I am so MAD at you guys, why didn't you email me I would have taken you in my car and shown it to you. and by your time your watch must be running a heck of a lot faster then it should. it takes me around 35 mins and we are on the beach..

now saying that the beach on our side of panama is not clear. which I really do hate. I want to see fish, sharks and whatever else I am about to step on when I'm down there.. the water is not dirty with gas and paint and sewer thou, it's dirty because all the rain washes down the dirt from the mountains up here and pours into the ocean, so it's always dirty looking,, if you want clear water you have to go to the other side...

If I can help you guys please let me know I will try my best.

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Hello Mark,
I've come to appreciate honesty as a way to make things run a bit smoother. Frankly, you hit the mark with your postings. I've been to Panama several times, and I'm in the process of making my dream of living in Panama come true with the purchase of some land in the interior with the intention of building a home. I've already experienced the culture enough to anticipate the craziness of taking on that process.
From my experiences down in the interior, prices for a lot of things are not cheap, and fuel costs are dictating the prices of goods sold everywhere. However, you can buy a very nice home in some areas of the interior for much less than 250k. It really depends on what you want.
As far as everything you stated is the absolute truth, and more people should spend some real time in Panama before making a decision to live there. One day Mark I will have to meet you and shake your hand. Thanks!

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Thanks, I am glad that someone else who has been here can back up some of the things I have posted. glad your soon to be living your dream here as well.

You might already know this next part but many may not, so I'll post it anyway.

Many people want to come here and build their own home which I think is wonderful, first thing I found in my home as well as many others here, is they don't wire in enough plugs. Many times you'll find only one plug in, in a room.

I have a full bathroom for guest and there isn't a plug in there.

blue prints. many of you will find a blue print and buy it in the states. even thou they are stamped and approved by the designers in the u.s. they are worthless here. you can bring them, but they must be looked over and then stamped by person born here, he will charge you full price like he drew them for you, only for him to stamp them.

also we use blocks and cement and tile, and metal 2 by 4's. less wood the better.

when picking out a lot, make sure you talk to people who live around that lot, to see what they can tell you about it. many times they will know about the huge legal fight over that lot that still hasn't gone to court.

we have a rainy season here and your home should be bulit to keep that in mind.. I have seen wonderful lots that look great to build on, until I see them in the rainy season with 4 ft of water running across it.

don't think the power company will come out and run 500ft of wire to get to your home for free, this you must pay for. the only thing they hook up is from their line to your pole.

also I wanted to say that you are right, you can buy homes in the interior for a lot less, but I was speaking about el valle which is in the interior but homes here are 250k and up. just two thousand meters of land here will run you 80k and up.

Your so right on saying people should spend more time here first,, that is spot on!! don't get into a rush to buy something, RENT SOMETHING. give yourself time to get use to everything here, you might find area's that you really love and places you really hate.

This country in less then 35 mins drive will change from mountains to ocean, to hot to cool, to lots more rain to less. it all depends on what fits you.

anyway thanks again and I hope your move goes smooth and your happy with your new place.

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thank you so very much for your letter in regards to living in panama. We really want to know the real facts not the business' facts to get us there. We are thinking of visiting for three months would you recommend this for a first timer? Thank you so very much Evelynne USA

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If your a first timer out side of the states, then yes.. I picked after going all over central and south ameica. if you need more insight or help I will try my best to help you. write me at ricobreeze@aom

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Hi Mark

I currently live in Milwaukee, WI and everything you describe with the dogs, cookouts, loud music I hae right next door. I just came back from Panama and while there are a lot of trade offs it is still better than living in Mlwaukee. I've been burglerized 6 times in two years. I'm out of here for a slower, simpler way of life. I don't need nor want what the Jones have.

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Thats great and I agree with you on your point that you will find the same problems with the people next door from time to time. I am glad you came to panama and I am also glad that it appeals to you. I wish you all the best on your move here and on your new life.

The main thing with that post was to let people know how many of the local people act. when you live among them then you must be ready to go along with how they are. very loud music and huge groups of people are common on the weekends as well as hit and miss in the middle of the week. heck bring a case of beer and you'll fit right in with them.

You are like so many of us, we are tried of the work to buy type lifestyle. You find your in debt for everything and you must work all the time to try to pay for it. no time to enjoy it.

I have a friend that moved here a few years ago from new york, he bought a few acres by a river and built a small home, he gets some of his power from that river and some from solar. He grows fish and has a nice garden, he rides a big old street bike. He is happier here by far. He is always telling me what new this or that he has planted. He has to buy very little to live out there. He is far more fit and happier then when he first came here.

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Hello all,
As someone who lived in Central America for 4 years in the 90s, I agree with 802Mark's assessment of what you will generally experience, unless you are in the financial bracket to buy a home in a luxury gated community with a no rooster policy! I can't comment on Panama directly but here are a few generalities and observations from my time abroad.

Things have changed a lot since we lived in Honduras, the internet chiefly among them. We didn't have Skype or IM, and Hondutel held us hostage with insane long distance charges with connections that seemed to go around the world a couple times, as the time delay of about a quarter second made it nearly impossible not to talk over one another. So for our current plans to relocate abroad in the next 2 years, a good broadband internet connection will be a must.

The roosters were the one thing I never got used to. I'm a light sleeper as it is and they were always punctual starting around 4 am and earlier with a waning moon. They liked to hang out right under the bedroom window. The calls went right through those foam ear plugs. Like I said unless you are in a gated community without roosters they likely WILL be in your neighborhood. Not sure what we’re going to do about that this time around. Nothing probably.

Second hardest thing to get used to was the pace of work and life in general. For me, it took at least 6 months to slow down enough to be able to carry on day to day activities without getting irritated or at least wondering how people could seemingly accomplish so little in a day (as I saw it). Coming to grips with the cultural differences was important to my sanity, even though I speak Spanish decently for a gringo and could communicate well. Slow down and breathe. That's why you want to move there anyway.

Consider where you will live in relation to good fruit and vegetable produce access. We would go to the market, see what fresh food was available, and then plan meals around what we bought. It was really interesting to realize how much of our produce in the US comes from all over the world, giving that illusion that everything is always in season. Not having access to good food was probably the main reason we decided to move back to the US. So good produce is another must have for our location choice.

Mail wouldn't come for weeks, but that wouldn't be nearly the concern these days given web connectivity. Even still, you will probably be expecting care packages from back home with little goodies you can't find.

Regarding wildlife - my wife found a scorpion in the shower one night, and we always slept under a mosquito net even though we had good screens (malaria was a consideration). Using nets and long sleeves and pants if going out around dusk kept us malaria free. So yes, there are perceived pests everywhere and you will have to learn to co-exist. You have to be much more diligent about food handling or the ants will carry away the kitchen or you'll get a roach infestation. Roaches seem to multiply exponentially in the tropics if they have food sources plus they like to fly at night! Ick!

Even with these little annoyances and irritations my time abroad was the best of times. There is no substitute for the perspectives and experiences gained when living in a different culture. We are planning to depart again, this time for good. Country still undetermined. I’m sure I will be posting many questions…

And one more thing…about happiness – don’t relocate to find happiness. Make sure yo're happy before you go. Becoming an expat in the third world after living in the efficient comfort of the US or Europe seems to amplify one’s state of mind. If you are a fun loving, carefree person who craves life, it will be an even greater experience. If you are depressed and miserable and think living where the toucans fly will do the trick, think again. I witnessed at least a dozen gringos self destruct, all of whom were or turned into substance abusers. Two of them took their lives, both successful business people. At the time it was hard to believe they could live in such a beautiful, peaceful place and go off the deep end, but of course that has nothing to do with being happy.

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Great info! Still wanna check it out, tho. We can't afford any of that stuff here in NJ anyway. Even with a decent pension (with great health benefits,) and ss, we are still falling behind every month. I'm ready to learn a new language and experience another part of the world and Panama keeps coming up on top.

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Ok Mark we hear you.However, you never mentioned the many discounts one can get once the "pensionado" visa kicks in.It shoud help a lot for most of us.
I will be relocating to PTY on August 31.Found a nice furnished apt to rent from an American women for $800 in La Cresta a very nice neighborhood.
At present the only thing i have to figure out is the best way to get my 9 year old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel "Rosco" there all safe and sound.Anyone know of a good pet courier for Panama?I will be shipping him out of Miami and bit concerned about the heat this time of year.

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ARTHOW,, you are so right, I have not written about the discounts that a pensionado gets here. I should have posted that a long time ago. I will post here on what all they are.. thank you for pointing that out.. as far as your dog check with the airlines, I found that many will not take the pet if the temps are so high. so will allow you to bring a carry on inside the plane, depends on the size I guess. we brought two cats on as our carry on, but the dog we had was to large and had to fly on another carrier.

Panama Pensionado Benefits
Discounts of 50% off the ticket price charged for movies, theaters and Panama sporting events like soccer, boxing, baseball etc. Charitable events would not offer this discount to the Pensionado.
30% Discount for City Buses, Panama Trains and Boats (not cruise boats).
25% on airfare if flight is in country or if ticket purchased with COPA airlines in Panama.
Hotels discount 50% from Monday to Thursday and 30% on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
25% discount of food eaten in a sit down inside restaurant.
15% discount in fast food establishments.
15% discount services in hospitals and private clinics.
10% discount in for prescription medicines in pharmacies.
Discounts in the following medical services:
20% discount fees for medical doctors
15% for dentist fees.
15% for optometric examinations.
Health Insurance shall adjust fees for Pensionados & Jubilados.
20% discount on any professional services utilized in Panama.
20% discount for all prosthetic devices.
50% discount on the price of a Panama passport.
25% discount on your electric bill up to 600KW's and then the discount is gone if the usage is over this figure.
25% discount to the basic residential phone service charges when the phone (one phone only)is registered in the name of the Pensionado
25% discount on primary residential water bill if the bill is in the name of the Pensionado and the monthly bill does not exceed $30.00
A Pensionado can buy a car every two years free of import duty.
A Pensionado can bring in $10,000 worth of personal goods one time with no import duty.

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Mark,thank you for listing a those great discounts.As you know,this is one(pensionado) thing that is attracting many of the baby boomers to Panama.
I am also doing some investments in a few small small business with two friends there also and i have a good feeling that i should along with their help, do just fine there.
Mark,you are one precise individual!

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Just a note. Remember, rich Gringos, when you ask for your 25% discount at eating establishments, you're taking 25% away from the local people. I doubt the government subsidises the locals so 'pensionados' can eat cheap in their country.

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There always seems to be someone that looks at the glass half empty!

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arthow. Half full, half empty, whatever you want to call it. For you to want to live 'on the cheap' at the expense of the locals, just isn't morally right. I don't care about your analogies.

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Ed,it is the Panama government that came up with the pensionado program as an incentive to encourage more Americans,ect to reside or retire in Panama.I believe that many of us will give back two fold with our investments,ect
(such as i am doing)instead of just looking for"cheap eats"on the back of the working class.

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Oh yeah Elduke,before you rush to judgement,i am investing in two business encounters in Panama.Infact one is the food and beverage industry.Cheap eats uh?

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Good for you. Hope your investment monies trickle down to the locals, like Maria and her two sons that run the little taco stands in Santiago. Lord knows they need it.

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Elduke,what are you doing to invest or make life better there for the locals there since you seem so concerned?As for me i will be putting several people to work and some of them at a much better wage!I think i have nothing to feel ashamed about at all.So sure i am going to take advantage of my benefits for medical,ect also.Better and afforadble than what i can have in the USA hopefully.

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arthow. I repeat, good for you. I'm sure you're in it to MAKE money for yourself. As for me, I'm not trying to make money in Panama, just spending and enjoying the country and locals. I hope you get your inexpensive medical, you may need it for your arm.

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Elduke,yeah whatever!

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a; LOL

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OK you two are going to come to blows.. play nice.. lol...

I knew someone had to be fighting on here when I opened the mail and saw that many links..

listen, the discounts for pensionado's and older people here were set up to help people that were poor and older. To ease the burden on them on things that they might need. there has been no help from the government for a long time, just this past year they passed a law to give 100.00 per month to older people.

you have to make the call what you will use and you will not. many of the discounts should be used. eating out is one of them, but that depends on where your eating out. If your in a very high priced place then by all means use your discount. If your eating a 5.00 meal at some mom and pop type places, then you should never use it.

I think many of us understand that and I would hope wouldn't take advantage of that discount.

No discount is paid back by the government to these people. It is a law passed and pushed on all food places.

when my wife had her resturant her meal prices were from 3.00 to 8.00 and I have seen very rich panamaian's demand their discount, so yes the discount is abused, it boils down to your morals as to when you should or shouldn't take it. I for one could never do it.

if I needed a discount on a 5.00 meal then I don't think I should be eating out to start with.

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AMEN, Mark. My point was, use the discounts for transportation, health care, etc., but if I need a $2.50 discount on a $10 meal, well, I just cant do it. We don't eat at fancy places, so Mom, and Pop, (usually just Mom), taco stands, hole in the wall places suit us just fine. In Santiago, I watched my wife, who knows 8 words of Spanish, and a local grandmother who knew 8 English words, carry on a conversation for 20 minutes at her roadside taco stand. That's what it's all about for us.








































































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Thanks Mark,that is sort of what i knew already and not going there to prey on the backs of anyone.
I am sure Elduke is very sincere in his comments but lets put things in a prospective also pot favor!

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Thanks Mark,that is sort of what i knew already and not going there to prey on the backs of anyone.
I am sure Elduke is very sincere in his comments but lets put things in a prospective also por favor!

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Prespective that is -)

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Mark , you lay a good middle of the road outlook on things.
Will be coming back in Sept.
I am moving back very soon. I know longer can take what is happening here in the states.
For the newcomers when you get to Panama or where ever you go...give back to the country nourish nature and respect the people and you will get back 10 fold....
Mark ,I will meet you at Ty's the middle of Sept. for a cold one.
Michele

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thanks,, were all looking forward to your return, be safe until then..

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In my opinion (who ask for my opinion) whatever your reasons for going/moving to Panama are its truly best not to get ugly. Enjoy being part of and learning a new culture. Chill the F out.

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WOW ,,, first off many people who move here, do so because they are looking for a change in life, yes it's not the u.s. by a long shot. but still we all grew up where common sence and service is the norm, you tell us to chill the F OUT, like by moving here we should put up with apes in charge and go ok that's fine. I have paid my internet bills three times in the same month and was told were cutting off your service because you didn't pay us, I was told the same thing last month on my power bill..

people like you I hate,, well ok don't like,, because your the ones who say o if you don't like it then GO HOME...

One can only bend so much, yes you must bend to live here, but to what point do you bend until you break?

learning a new culture is great, but when it becomes a nightmare due to a case of the dumbas' it's not go along to get along anymore..

we all understand it's not the u.s. but many don't understand your dealing with a retared child.

we bitc$ BECASUE it's so simple but yet they make it so complex. go to 5 lines and wait 6 hours to pay 2,00 at each for a stamp. what crap, all to be able to hire your kin folks...

I say get UGLY,, then maybe someone with half a brain cell will see what's going on and fix the problem.. or just shut up and chill the F out and wait in line.

who enjoy's being a part of and learning a new culture of apes? when you know that if you push the handle it flushes the turds, but yet they don't know what that handle does, so to you , shut up and don't say anything about the can, that is full and it stinks to go in there, just go along with it because your a guest here in their home,

you know that's like going to a friends home in the u.s. and the bathroom is over flowing with turds and you dare not say anything because you are a guest there... please..

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Mark,you go guy!I have traveled all over the globe and decided on Panama because for one thing i have a few nice local amigos here and they just might make it a little less hard to deal with with some of the nonsense that they know here!

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Having local friends here is like having a money in your pocket, They will be able to cut the red tape many times for you.

remember there is 3 million people who live here, but they all have big families and many friends. someone always knows somebody that works where you might need something done.

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A little "palm grease" here and there don't hurt either. ;)

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arthow: You're going to throw more $ at the locals you hire and raise the prices for everyone. I just read of a lady who hired a full time housekeeper at a better wage than 'usual' - now we'll have to pay more and more and more and the services won't improve. Stop thinking like an American, that throwing money at it will make everything better - it will be just the reverse; soon we'll be complaining how expensive everything in Panama is, & we are to blame!!

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I wish some of you would stop your complaining or rushing to judgement over something you really don't understand or know nothing about the circumstances.For one think my business partner is from Panama and he will be pretty much be in charge of the hiring and wages.He knows very will that sometimes you get what you pay for.So stop with your nonsense and get a life!

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sorry you think that is rushing to judgment arthow - only know what you say; that you're going to pay better wages. It'll be just like Hawaii where we raised the prices so badly, natives couldn't even afford their family homes any longer because of taxes, etc. If you think we weren't to blame for that, you'd better get a little broader perspective than just your own prosperity. It's already happening in Panama because of the influx of expats so it's not nonsense; open your eyes.

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Expats do change things around them. This is why many times, there is a price for them and a price for us. they feel we all are rich and should pay more. Many times a price to do a job is a heck of a lot cheaper then we would pay to get it done in the u.s. so many of us will pay that extra they charge us because it seems far lower.

when I first came here, labor was 6.00 per day, now they want 15.00 per day. of course the min. wage law went up during that time as well.

I pay my workers more then the law tells me I have to,and I don't work them near as much as other people, and I do give them many perks.

land here has gone up and yes many of the locals even thou they sell it and make a lot of money, can't afford to rebuy something else here. They have to move down the mountain and find cheaper places to live.

In c.r. the fines went out the roof over traffic tickets, they had wrote thousands to the locals and to the expats, the locals refused to pay them and had a sit in about it, so they dismissed those tickets, many expats tickets were not dismissed. The locals claimed they just couldn't afford a 300.00 ticket and it was unfair to charge them so much when they made so little.

many times when I am about to built something, I just say I'll pay this amount, you want the job or not. I never pay what they ask, because I know it's 30 percent more because I am gringo. so I take my own gringo discount, many times they will take it and do the work.

learn how to say no thanks and be ready to walk away

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LOL. Guess I'm not the only guy to piss off Senor arthow. This made my day!!

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Well,i am leaving the USA because the Republicans and their corporate welfare agenda's are ruining the country.
Now go blow it out your nose!

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I am now going to let you all have the last words on this because you can't reason with androids.So knock yourselves out.I have a nice life to live here and good luck hangin at the pubs,ect!

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arthow. Get spell check for your computer. I love it. Blame Bush and the GOP. In Panama, you'll find someone new to blame. Let us know where you are in Panama, so I can avoid you.

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Elduke,there you go again.I knew you had to be a wingnut!You started this crap .Your mentality is one reason i am leaving the U.S.So don't worry i will avoid your likes as if the plague.I am sure you are a last word freak so knock yourself out!

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arthow. Reading some posts back, I can see just how full of yourself you are. Suffice it to say, you are not one to just ask how to ship a dog, you have to state it's a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. LOL. No chance of our paths crossing. Sounds like y'all a city boy. Won't see yo white ass on the beach.

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wow, don't understand what you guys fight has to do with posting things about panama. maybe you two can email each other and work it out in private.

the u.s is a great country, or was, I love the u.s. but it was time I headed out years ago. To point blame at one party just isn't right. both of them are to blame as well as our officals dating back many years. In the 30's really, when they turned over power to the federal reserve to start printing our money and then loaning it to us with interest. That was a bright call..

many american's have no clue that the federal reserve has nothing to do with our federal government. They are a private corp. they can print trillions of dollars and hand it out to any country they wish, and you the tax payer is on the hook to repay it.

many people lost their homes and jobs, because the bankers handed out home loans to people that they knew had no way to pay the notes, and they sold these before the people defaulted on them.

now they get a bail out on your back. Now we are so far in debt and the government's broke that there has been talk about cutting your s.s. checks and health ins. to help keep the wars going.

once they stop the food stamps, your going to see the u.s. people take to the streets.. this is the reason we left years ago to get set up someplace that we would have a better chance to make it once the dollar became nothing more then pretty paper. and that is coming soon.. china has been dumping our dollar for gold, and they have stopped buying our bonds, and now they are stopping the loans to us.

most all tv and news papers are in the hands of a very few. that is why when ron paul wins a straw poll, they don't want to talk about it, because they fear him, he wants to end the fed, and he wants to stop all wars. every other person in the running is going to keep things the way they have been for years.

If you can't change something then it's time for you to think about your family and do what you have to do to make it.

panama just stamped their first one dollar coin, and I for one am hoping that they don't stop there, but also print coins up to 100.00 each. even a small third world place like this can see the writing on the wall and know it's time to do something to protect against the dollar fall.

you might loose by selling out but at least you won't loose it all. taxes are going to go up on your home or land, to the point you won't be able to pay them, and once that happens, they will be there in force to take it from you and sell it off.

you make people poor, take away their homes, and jobs, and when they can't eat they will get in line and do whatever you tell them. they start by making you dumb, there is proof of this, a person only has to look up a test that was given to kids in the 8th grade many years ago, and take a look at one today.

why are you safer here? because there already is a huge base of very poor people. I don't see kids here with lab tops, and a ipod, most ride a bike or walk, they can't miss something they never had to start with. compare that with any teenager in the u.s. these kids down here wear 12.00 jeans and 20.00 shoes, not 200.00 nike's. they eat beans, rice and chicken, they don't have to go out for take out food 4 times a week. many of these kids have never eaten a big mac.

I had a car when I was 15. many people here have never owned a car and they are in their late 80's.

I don't know what is going to happen, but everything I see isn't good for the u.s. I am scared about it yes, but I did what I though was best for me and my family. I love where we live, it has it's draw backs sure, but it's still a better place and we have a better life here, I couldn't see bringing up my girls in the u.s. to much has gone wrong for that. to much drug use, gangs and crime.

It's peaceful here, the air is clean and the drinking water is as well. you can grow crops all year long, and the weather is never to cold or hot to kill a person sleeping outside.

I look to see more and more of you sell out and move here, it's a good pick, but the clock is ticking.

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Mark,true that both parties are to blame.However, the Republicans with their sacred cow ,big tax breaks for the wealthy elite,huge subsidies for the oil companies,corporate
welfare agenda are a big cause of the problem.Then they yell huge cuts on the backs of the working class.Give me a break!
If Obama and the Democrats are for something they are against it even if they were for it before.They want the economy to fail for their own political gain!And that's the bottom line!

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Really appreciate, this forum - keep learning so much about Panama. I am sick of the designer clothes children in other countires think are important I am interested to know what you have in place for your daughters' education.

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Thanks, Mark -we agree completely. My brother, who has no clue about what's really going on, sent me an article yesterday about the "disappearing middle class" and how "scary" this is. I replied that there never really was a middle class...it was always a farce. To keep people mired in consumerism and debt so that they would be too busy to see what's really happening around them.

I was in Athens during the riots, and let me tell you, if the people in the US get half as mad as the Greeks were, it's going to be a bloodbath here.

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Thot this was a Panama educational forum ???

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Yes that is the question. right now she is going to K. here in town. when she gets up in the grades here, then I will have to do one or two things, either hire a teacher to come here each day and home school her, or buy another home close to a private school and put her there.

they are building a private school down the mountian but it's a good 45 min drive from here. that's a little much to do each day, I mean I drive her down and then what, hang out for 8 hours, and then drive back, or drop her off and drive home and then drive back to pick her up and then drive back. its to much either way. might come out better just buying a home down there, after all I have two daughters and the young one hasn't started yet.

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well everyone saw what happen in new orleans, that was nothing.

there was a middle class that is where all of the tax base came from. If your not on food stamps your in the middle class. 46 million people are now on food stamps.

the poor didn't pay taxes, the rich didn't pay taxes, so who was left to pay them. every year they wanted more and more, it got to the point I was working for them for 5 months out of each year.

I bust my b, and then go to the grocery store and see a woman with gold rings and chains on, with two baskets full of nothing but meat, and she pays for it all with food stamps, she then goes outside and puts it all in her two year old 50k suv. makes me want to work more so she can have more free stuff.

now all the increase on food stamps, is not coming from the poor, no they already had been getting them for years, all these new people are, or I should say were middle class signing up for them, these were people who once paid into the system, that are now not paying in, but taking out.

many people left new orleans before it hit, the ones who stayed, stripped a wal mart to the bone in a day. even two black female poilce officers were filmed inside stealing dvds.

americans have more guns then any other country on the planet. we have been at war for most of our years as a country, even fought a war with each other.

when the dollar falls, you won't be allow to leave the country. all modes of transport, will be under FEMA.

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And yet Mark i still get many Americans telling me i better be carefull moving out of the country especially to a place like Panama.lol
I get a kick out of hearing the the U.S. is the "best country in the world"by so many that haven't even been out of it.It is a great place and i think many of you expats tend to downplay that to an extreme at times.How-
ever,seems to me that it is being transformed in a corporate welfare state more and each day and still many Americans just don't get it and want to lay the blame on the working class such as the unions,ect!This is one reason i will never vote Republican.Ever listen to some of those confederate Senators and congressmen?A real piece of work they are.

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arthow,

Your trying to lay the blame of all the u.s. problems on the other team, not the one you play on. the fact is both sides of those teams played for each other, they were all bought out by big corps. as well as other countries. There isn't many jobs working for the public that a person can start day one with very little money and within a very few years be worth 50 to 100 million dollars.

Financial disclosure forms released Friday by the nation's 100 senators show there are at least 40 millionaires among them -- 22 Republicans and 18 Democrats. All but six of them are men.
and that's just what they claim, no word on the hidden money they all have. or stocks in corps. that are getting paid for the war.


your country, your money, your freedoms have been bought and sold.

people will tell you many things, you have to look at what that person knows and doesn't know. I don't go to how to get rich speeches given by a homeless person.

there is a much higher power that your not seeing, it isn't rep. or dem. they control nothing, they are mere puppets on strings that are there to give you the dream that you some how have a say in your government. If there was only one side, rep or dem, not both, you still would be in the same mess your in today, who could they keep you busy blaming then?

to split it up like they do, then you can fight it's all the rep. fault, and the reps. can point the finger at the dem. they keep us and our power cut in half, if there was just one, then when things went bad we would throw all of the bums out and start over. but then again they would soon be bought and sold and do as they are told as well. then we would start a whole new government.

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Amen!! 802mark. For those of you still in the USA--remember--RE-ELECT NO INCUMENTS...PASS IT ON!

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Who died and made 802Mark God?;-)

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We took a vote :-)

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802mark,
that is the most honest article I have ever seen in regard to moving to Panama...the idea that it is dirt cheap is totally false...it is actually about the same as living in the southern USA pricewise...in fact you can buy a home for less money in Florida on the water on the Gulf Coast for less money...and have all the conveniences’ of the US...it is simply a matter of you likes and dislikes culturally...if you want to live in a foreign country for the kick of it...like tropical weather and such then Panama is lovely...I spend much of the year there myself...but cheap? It ain't...unless you want to live like a peasant!
I've experienced the barking dog and rosster syndrome and it's not pleasant...if you'd hate that kind of noise in north america you'll hate it in Panama too!

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count me in leafwarbler (o:

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Once again por favor,you guys seem to ignore the "pesionado" visa,it helps for the many of us who qualify!

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pahonex. This is informational. arthow might be your neighbor. beware.

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Hey Mark. (aka Panamanian God). I know you and I have had our differences on this site, but your soon to be neighbor (arthow) takes the cake. Be thankful this guy is going to be in the city. Serious question. Can you own a gun there? I know a guy that lived in Penoneme years ago who said he and local friends used to go hunting. If and when we move to Panama, is there a way to find oportunities to volunteer at the local level? My wife teaches piano, kids 5 yo and up, and would love to find a way to help teach children. Oh yeah, one last jab at arthow. Most people on this forum asked about moving dogs, cats, birds, etc.. But you, arthow, specified a "Cavalier King Charles Spaniel". You are so full of yourself, it's pathetic. I saw many dogs, read, MUTTS, in the country, and I would bet a weeks worth of Marks beer, that none had a pedigree like your beloved 'Roscoe". No, there's no chance of running to each other. Y'all sound like a city boy. Yo white ass will never see the beach, thank God. Mark, keep up the good work.

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I have collected a bunch of information on moving pets to Panama. Post your email address and I will forward it to you.

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Yes you can own a gun here.. you need a full time visa first, then you apply for a gun permit,, then it takes a year to get it passed then they take a bullet from that gun.. gun wihtout that permit will cost you around 5 years of your life in a heck hole... read this...

http://www.panama-guide.com/article.php/20110818101828553

that's way I say shot em, kill em and dump their body down the road and go back to bed,.

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was that correct athow? are you mad because your so called way if thinking, was shot down? because most of the people on here don't believe it your one sided BULL SHI... ? O IT MUST BE ALL OUR FAULT..

trust me if I was god, I would turn you into a pile of dog shi@


look people like me on here because I TELL IT LIKE IT IS... you like it or you don't I really could care less then a tick turd.

you don't live here RIGHT>?>>>> I'VE LIVED HERE 6 YEARS I HAVE BEEN ALL OVER,, SO PEOPLE ASK AND I TELL THEM WHAT I KNOW,.. '

so what is your problem with me? did I rain on your tutu? did I somehow steal your thunder?> I don't do this to make my head larger I do it to HELP PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO DON'T HAVE A FREAKING CLUE about what it is like living here..'

HOW DARE YOU ATTACK ME... people like you and some of the reply's I read makes me what to stop posting.. let all of you that have missed the boat find out the hard way.. like I had to.. spend that money some of you add nothing to this site outside of can I live like a king on 1200.00? I was told I could... ha the freaking ha..


that's about how I feel about your views on the u.s. government... stick your head in the sand and your a@@ REALLY HIGH IN THE AIR...

NO I AM NOT GOD,, NO I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING. YES I AM SOMETIMES WRONG..

ALL I AM TRYING TO DO IS HELP PEOPLE ON HERE,,, I HELP YOU AND YOU BITE ME. STAY IN THE U.S. DON'T COME HERE.

SORRY EVERYONE I HATE SIMPLE MINDED PEOPLE.

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Hey Mark ,chill out.Whom is attacking whom here?I was only kidding with the God reference.If it makes you feel better going after me then knock yourselves out.
Yeah i'm a city boy from
good old Boston and it takes the likes of Whitey Bulger to bother me!Think any of you rednecks or conferderates scare me?Better think again,i grew up in the City deal with it.Better yet,have fun ragging on me because i get a big laugh out of it too!Actually shouldn't you all be dating one of your cousins tonight?Except Mark that is.;-)

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Just what I thought. A northener with a fancy dog. BTW. My cousin is Hot !! Whitey? Y'all and him wouldn't last 24 hours in redneck country.

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Ok Elduke,atleast you have a sense of humor and i'll give you that.LOL

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sorry arthow, I took your post to be a attack on me, it's very hard to undertand sometimes what is said by reading something what a person means.

I am southern, but I never dated any of my cousins, they were just all to darn ugly for me, I did have a hot aunt thou.

I'll debate your views on things, but I don't disagree with you because your from boston, I really don't care where a person is from, north south makes me no never mind.

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Hello everyone....first can this nut case please leave this forum..arthow...or whatever your name is....please ,do not come to Panama,there already are enough ugly americans. If you must come please stay in the city where your life expectancy will not be long with your attitude!
I want to address looptiz comment about Panama as being as expensive as Fl.
where I own two houses...the difference is as follows:
I lived in Panama for 10 months and then came back to Fl. because I cannot sell my home here yet. I rented a large villa in El Valle while I was there"The Mermaid House" as locals call it...Mark knows it. The lights I kept on around the large perimeter all night,pool pump that ran every day and the normal use of power minus the ac which is not needed. My electric at most..$50. per month...have large property in Fl....electric $300-350 per month. Water..panama,$4.00..Fl.$19.00.......cable,internet and local phone service...$187 per month,Panama-internet,cable, phone $50-100 depending on plan. Taxes and Property Ins. on Fl. primary residence,$8000. per year(and no, I do not live on the water)if I did live on the water you could put a 1 infront of that eight. Medical and dental like night and day in comparision with price. And yes, I do all my medical and dental work in Panama and have excellant care there!! I notice that groceries have gone up alot in Panama well guess what...here too even in cheap old Fl. ....Almost $5 for a gallon of milk ,I paid $4.28 cents for a pack of 4 sticks of butter...two fresh peaches that were on sale $2.25 for the two and on and on. You may not be able to get fresh peaches in Panama but those big watermelons for $2 a piece make up for that one....and so on so on.
But, I do agree with Looptiz, you must live where the quality of life for you is the best and what you can live with and are looking for in life.GOD BLESS and that evens goes for you arthrow

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Seems I had to post to be removed from notifications on this thread...was thinking this would be a great resource as my wife and I plan to leave the US (again).

Unfortunately I have to come to grips with the fact that there lurks in just about every forum people who have their own religious, political, or otherwise personal agendas. I thought the discussion was about cost of living in Panama...oh well, adios!

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ahh beek, sorry we didn't fill in all the blanks to your questions, maybe post your own and ask something. I will try to help you without telling you about the falling dollar.

panamalady just posted a great post comparing prices here and in FLA.

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I am visiting 9/3/-17/2011 and planning on retiring in the Spring of 2012.
I would also like to know about bringing pets in (Small lap dog.)
Thanks,
Tim

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There were a couple of good informative threads back in April about shipping pets. Type pets into the search box ..........

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please enter your email address and I will send you all the information I have on transporting pets to Panama

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tsherrod@savantsolutions.com

Thanks,

Tim

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Thanks,
Tim

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God knoweth all. Seriously though, Mark. I heard the same thing about Viques (can't spell it) from some fellow sailors. Said water is nice, but the leftover ordinance, ie, bombs, pose a real health issue. Cruising World magazine had an article about this place and advised against going ashore. They cited the same concerns that you stated.

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arthow. Glad you appreciate my sarcastic sense of humor. Yeah, I'm from the South. SOUTH CALIFORNIA. LOL and now SOUTH FLORIDA. Got to be near the beaches. Surfs up, Dude lol

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@ eelydnew1

I would love some info about shipping pets. I'm familiar w/ most of the paperwork etc but any insight would be helpful since I'll be shipping 9 cats, a bird and a large iguana. The exotics are my biggest concern. My email is LLOLLICHOPS11@aol.com

Thanks!!
Cynthia*

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