802mark
From: Panama
2/25/2012 11:41 EST
I pause before I write this because it is hard to get the point across without sounding like a person who thinks they are better then another. I have read many post here and other places from expats who don't want to come here and be in a expat type place. They wish to mix with the locals and to learn their ways, many say we are trying to get away from gringos not just move from the u.s. to panama and be in the middle of them.
you are and always will be a gringo to them. gringo means rich, and a person they sometimes will try to charge twice for items. When my wife asked why the price for her was three times as much then for the lady in front of her, the man told her your rich you can afford to pay more.
I find this does happen a lot here. I once saw a ad for a hike, just a hike, it stated locals 10.00, tourist 20.00. why the extra 10.00? because you can afford it.
what I found out living here was at first no one wanted to even speak to us, my wife and I stood outside on the sideway to say hello to people as they went by, very few even looked up at us, some did say hello back. To them I guess we were just another tourist coming to invade their town for a few days before moving on.
This all changed when we hired a local lady to clean our home, she took my wife around town and before the week was out, people were waving at me and yelling my name and I had no clue to who they were, after 6 years here that still happens and I just wave back not knowing who this person even is.
everyone wanted to be our friend. coming from a back ground of having more then the avg kid growing up I knew all about people wanting to be my friend for the perks that they could get. I warned my wife of this, which she could not see. My wife came from nothing, she knew what it meant to have hunger, to do without basic needs. Things that I had no clue of growing up.
I tried to be helpful to people, it started out small, I gave our yardman a raise and a couch I didn't want. I also bought some plants from an old woman just to help her out. next thing I knew there were people asking my wife for a meeting with me, and everyday people were just showing up at my home wanting to ask for this and that. All I had to turn away.
yes I still do give and try to help others but it's people I pick not pick me.
You have very little in common with these people, even thou you might try to it's just to hard sometimes. I have few very friends here but even less locals.
They are very hard workers and they live on very little. Even the ones that work for me have never stolen a thing from me, even thou it would be very easy to take a tool out of my shop they do not. even thou they might need the money for something very important.
This week school starts back, we were given a list of all the supplies my daughter starting K. would need. it came up to 125.00 total. while shopping for these things I saw the cheap end of it and then the way over the top on some of these items.
I grabbed the way over the top end of these things and stopped myself from buying them, I do want the very best for my daughters but I knew the other kids wouldn't be able to have those things so I put them back and we bought just the cheap stuff everyone else would buy.
They already know she is my daughter and from a rich family, so I can't rub that in, I have been trying to get them to look at her as one of them so she won't have problems. This didn't work her first year in school, she had very little friends. she was born here just like them but with blonde hair and blue eyes and having a gringo daddy that picks her up everyday in a car she was kinda pushed aside.
at three years old I had the two boy's across the street come over for snacks and to play ball and ride the toy's. she had a great day with them, but their mother told us they could not play with her anymore, when asked why she stated it was just not right. we are gringo and they are hired help.
so you can see that even kids here think that it's not right to cross a line that has been made up. even thou I try to erase it, they will not.
so when you think you want to be in the middle of no where living among them and trying to be a good friend they will only let you in so much, and many times it's only because they want something in return.
now that's not always the case and yes you will find good life long real friends down here.
once I had a meeting to be at in panama city, I had a flat, and found that my jack wouldn't get the truck up high enough to pull the tire, two men in a large truck passing by stopped and saw the problem, pulled their jack and changed the tire while I stood there and watched. I tried to pay them, they refused and I had to force them to take a 20.00.
It's like the men here, they hunt for the older american lady because they know they can live with her high on the hog and not have to work, same for the ladies here hunting the gringo male. Hard to trust what your being told.
Post a Reply
 0 0 abuse
|
|
ihatescams
2/25/2012 14:26 EST
There is a lot of truth in this post. The assumption is you must rich if you are a gringo.
Living in Peru for 2 years it was a little different. The social settings were different.
I do not care if you were a Jivaro from the Amaones; if you asked a lady to dance with you no one refused.
I was regularly invited to peoples homes and the hospitality shown was an honor. They always offered the best they had.
Panama there is not that same openness. I get mixed feelings with the la gente here; I sense an undercurrent; that distancing you spoke of Mark.
It may be I was a novelty in Peru. There were times I did not see any foreigners for months.
Just another day in paradise...
Post a Reply
 0 0 abuse
|
|
|
|
susanellen40
2/25/2012 17:05 EST
A lot of places can be hard for outsiders to assimilate into, and some it is not possible to ever assimilate into. When I moved from NY to the south, I was viewed as a Yankee for a long time. Then, all of a sudden, I realized that I was being treated just like a local and felt like TN had always been my home. Just recently I realized that I was being charged the "local" price at one of the shops here that I regularly patronize, NOT the price that was posted (for the tourists). I know this won't happen all the time, but it was a good feeling when it did. I probably won't ever feel like I'm a "Panamanian", but that's just fine with me. I know who I am...A Yankee Red-Neck. :) Before we came down here, I read about customs and etiquette in Central and South America so I wouldn't say or do anything offensive during our travels. Very important for me as I tend to put my mouth into motion before putting my brain into gear. Wish I had that book with me now so I could recommend it, but it did say that Panamanian are always cordial, but hard to get to really KNOW. They will not enter your home (or even your yard) without being invited. The other day one of the bomberos (firemen) from the local firehouse came by our place looking for the yard man, and wouldn't come in the gate. We try to mirror what the Panamanians do so as not to offend, just as we would hope they would do in our homeland. I have learned a bit about the Panamanians that I really admire - their family values, work ethic, resourcefulness - and then some traits that might not be so great - lateness, fireworks, bad driving. Of course this is generalizing, like everyone thinking that all Southerners chew tobacco. While not ever fitting in completely is fine with me, I can see it really being bad for kids, and if I was going to move here with young kids, I would carefully consider where they go to school.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
lapapuja
2/25/2012 18:39 EST
All valid observations and it is refreshing to see someone speaking honestly about their experiences.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
bluewind
2/25/2012 19:56 EST
Parts of the Midwest can also be tough on people moving there. I lived in Minnesota for 23 years, and never was accepted by my neighbors Most of the people there have long roots in that state, and anybody that moves there is always considered on outsider, especially if your Latino like I am. Not everybody there is like that but most are.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
meanderingmiss
2/25/2012 23:21 EST
The hubs and I moved to Panama January 2011 so we've been here about 13 months now. We have friends from all over the world that live nearby (the states, Canada, Germany, Switzerland, etc…). We also have many friends that are locals. We've never felt like outsiders to them. We go out to eat, clubbing, travel together and they are born and raised Panamanians. They even pay for our movie tickets or meals if they invite us so I'm pretty sure they're not hanging out with us only because they want something from us.
I think it's just a matter of experience and how you approach the locals. We do have a gardener and maid. They work for us and we don't hang out with them outside of their work. We also have a restaurant and we don't hang out with the employees or management outside of their work. All our friends are purely for socialization. We have also made an effort to meld with the locals by living with them and working diligently to learn Spanish. We also live closer to Panama City. We're in La Chorrera. A lot of the people that live here work in Panama City and make way more than the average Panamanian so this might be a factor for easier integration.
Just wanted to let everyone know that just because you're gringo, doesn't mean you won't ever be able to integrate. If you come in with the attitude that you never will fully integrate, then I think you can count on definitely never fully integrating.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
|
|
802mark
From: Panama
2/25/2012 23:26 EST
your talking about the middle class type here, where I was mainly talking about the lower paid workers. You can have friends if they are on your same level.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
meanderingmiss
2/26/2012 00:13 EST
I think it's more of how you carry yourself. We have friends that make $400 and others that make $1,500 and more a month and they're in various occupations, from students and waiters to engineers and business owners. We're well above those income levels due to our online businesses and the restaurant.
What you're saying in a sense is true as far as befriending people on the same level...mentality level that is (not income level). We've had friends who have been millionaires and celebrities and those who have forsaken riches to help others. We choose to simply befriend like-minded people and not judge anyone based on the size of their wallet or paycheck.
We lived in Churuquita Grande (15 minutes out from Penonome) full time before opening the restaurant in La Chorrera and we used to hang out with our neighbors all the time. One was a taxi driver. Another was a bank teller. One was working at a hotel. I don’t remember all their occupations, but all had children. The hubs and I don’t have any children. Despite this, the wives and I would exchange cooking, families would traverse lawns for cookouts and birthday parties, and we would share front porches in the evenings drinking beer together. I can’t imagine that they made oodles of money either, but they were good people.
Now that we’re in La Chorrera, the atmosphere is different. There’s more hustle and bustle, but we’ve still found some amazing friends in the locals and I think you can find that no matter where you are in the world. It just depends on having the same mentality. You can’t ever force a friendship if the personalities don’t mesh.
People can make you feel as though you don’t fit in no matter where you go. It happens in Panama, back home, and other countries too. We see it happen in the bubbles where large communities of ‘gringos’ live here. It used to happen to us back home. It depends on what perspective you view it from. Sometimes we meet people that we would never want to associate with and it has nothing to do with how much money they have or where in the world they’re from. We just have to remember that not all people are meant to be friends, but not everyone is the same. Some Panamanians are potential friends while other Panamanians aren’t, just like with some Americans, I’m sure, or Germans, or Canadians…the list could go on :)
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
davidjana
2/26/2012 09:53 EST
we human animals and our "in-group and out-group stuff! fascinating discussion without the rose colored glasses of salesmanship found everywhere in this expat scene?
In America I find class to be the great divide, greater than color, sex, religion - you don't find an American CEO golfing with a Delivery Person for UPS?
And something said about not going into the yard and respecting the customs of something like that must be profound? Not many people will notice something like that - loudness of speech, closeness of personal space - makes me aware to be more sensitive to such things, respect really, respect for their way. I just want access to somekind of social interaction really feel a need to evolve relationships so much as I can now, don't want to be isolated wherever I live and I sense from these pages that perhaps expats in general are a more thoughtful lot ?
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
|
|
davidjana
2/26/2012 11:18 EST
grew up dirt poor fatherless kid in the suburbs of washington dc and while remains to this day a divide, my own experience is that bridging the race divide has been a piece of cake for me compared to bridging the class divide .. "the suburbs, where trenchments rise as subtle as a well formed hedge"
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
rgpanama
2/26/2012 12:15 EST
ihatescams- don't youthink you are oversimplifying a very complicated subject?And ignoring the fact that people are individuals with different values based on their personal beliefs?
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
susanellen40
2/26/2012 15:40 EST
I'm sorry, but I don't relate with, or agree with, the big "race divide" observation as regards the US, especially in 2012.
I grew up in New York City, and it had every rave and nationality as my my neighbors. Further, growing up in the "poorer" area of town, made me have more in common with those kids...whatever race or nationality they happened to be. In my neighborhood in the 1980's, that happened to be Haitians (these immigrants were considered to be at the very bottom of the proverbial caste ladder then, are might still be). I always have felt more comfortable in a more modest environment, than in, say an Orange County CA shopping mall when I lived in CA.
Living in the southern US, which is certainly not backward like the stereotypes would have you believe, I nevertheless did see a hint of a race divide. Old ways die slowly. But even there, it is more of the economic stratum that you are in these days that determines who you tend to hang out with. A black man in TN or GA who is an executive is going to spend Saturdays playing golf with his colleagues rather than hanging out in the 'hood just to be around other blacks.
One observation that I will put out there, and others may agree, is that one of the most critical things about forming relationships with others is being able to communicate. After all, how else will you find out what your common ground is if you can't talk (or at least do sign language)? So, perhaps the key to "getting to know the locals" is learning to speak Spanish!
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
bluewind
2/26/2012 16:01 EST
Sorry, but I have to disagree with anyone that thinks racism in the US is a small issue these days. It is true that things have changed for the better since the 60's, but unfortunately racism is still a major problem
I taught for a number of years, and substitute teach now. You wouldn't believe how many times a person's race is brought up in conversation by many of the students I have worked with. I am Latino, and it is pretty common for some students to call me a racists. Some days, I'm against white people, other days I have a problem with blacks or even other latinos. Sometimes, I'm accused of being a racist against two colors in the same day; sometimes in the same class! Go figure.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
susanellen40
2/26/2012 16:36 EST
As I understand it, you are saying that they are "pulling the race card" (accusing you of being racist when no racism exists)?
Is so, that is completely different from actually BEING racist (i.e. having an enforcing policies that treat the races differently). Under the law, this would be called "disparate treatment". If someone is calling you a racist and you are not treating them differently because of race and they cannot prove disparate treatment, then it is just some kid using the proverbial race card as an excuse.
I am not saying that there isn't racism on display in these times...just look at what happened last year in, I believe, Philly: a group of Black Panthers gathered outside of a polling place to menace and intimidate White, Hispanic and Asian voters, in some cases assaulting them, thereby preventing them from voting.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
ihatescams
2/26/2012 17:35 EST
@rgpanama - and what is your point? Until you stop measuring people by their ethnicity or economic status, you will not see them as folks. Complicate as much as you like. I just won't participate in inane chatter.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
802mark
From: Panama
2/26/2012 20:32 EST
I don't judge anyone by their skin color or how much money they make or don't make I judge them by their actions. You can make friends here, not saying you can't,, just saying for you gringo's that you should not trust it until it;s proven that it's real.
I do understand that most people here and I don't have much in common so that is why I say being in a area with other gringos is a little better. not much because I have met some like susan that is a red neck like me and we just have far to much in common,, by the way I'm still pissed off that she didn't bring me the BBQ that she swore that she was going too.... so let that be a lesson to all of you, you just can't trust anyone these days even your own kind....
today was so wonderful,, it was like sping all day and made me happy to just wake up to find that I lived another day!!!! big race today which was rained out.. so I ended up meeting some new folks and having dinner with debbie and whats his name... whats his name cooked and it was wonderful.... anyway that's what I love about this valle meeting new people that don't know which way is up and helping them on their way.
wish all of you could have been here. I sat at ty's today sharing my rum and coke with mona the monkey, that little thing can drink/ spill more then I can drink.. she played with the kids today and had a ball. got to see a friends new baby as well... life might be better some place else but I just don't know where that would be.. if someone knows tell me so I can move next door to you... just don't tell susan where
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
802mark
From: Panama
2/26/2012 20:38 EST
I do agree with you on that one 50/50... your right here in panama blacks, browns, white, ect all are just born in panama. no big deal, in the u.s. a black man isn't on the same level no matter how much he owns.. look at mike tyson.. millions of dollars, broke within a few years. now just another getto black.
here in panama there are some panamaians that are rich that wouldn't dare give me the time of day. so it goes both ways.
my wife and I were asked over for dinner one night with some new very rich friends from here, the dinner was great and afterwards all us guys stepped out to smoke a fine cigar, half way through it my wife came out and by the look on her face I knew she was ready to go, I told everyone thank you and we should do it again soon,, when my wife and I got into the car I asked what's going on? we are making new friends, and she said I don't want friends if they are going to be like that, why I asked? and she said all the ladies could talk about was who bought these high dollar shoes ect,, and then the lady said if your not worth at least a million dollars then she won't even speak to them.. meaning mainly the good people who work for her and others,,, so we never went back..
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
susanellen40
2/26/2012 21:56 EST
Today WAS gorgeous, Mark...what's-his-name's wife and I got some tacos and showed some tourists around. I am proud to tell folks who visit our town about all of the great restaurants and sites to see, like amazing waterfalls. Told them to get to Ty's by 2 to meet Mona the Monkey. Life is good, and I am glad that you are still my friend even though I reneged on the BBQ. BTW, I saw you on Panamanian TV hotdogging on that ATV for the camera.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
snyderman
2/26/2012 22:53 EST
Hey Mark,if the gal who said $1 mill is full of S-its no big deal-she is a small potato-If she thinks a mill is a benchmark,she is a loser -There is a lot more in life "-for get about it"
'
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
tunjio
2/27/2012 02:39 EST
i think panama will be much easier to handle than say,my experience in the late 90's riding my bicycle through tenesse after having crossed the full length of virginia to get there...i got across the appalachians in tenessee when i entered a town before cookesville where every one including the sheriff stopped to hurl racist slurs at me and even objects and all said to get out of their town,,the sheriff pulled me over and checked my ID and asked that i not stop in town to stay or visit because they dont see "my kind" around there....I took his advice to not be lynched by those fools...i ended up in cookesville riding into the next day and town,,cookes ville was a bit nicer because there i was given a motel room for the night but still advised to leave first thing in the morning before the manypeople see me...the motel registrar told me only one black kd was in that town and he was brought by a church and protected very close by the church.....it hasnt changed much even in 2012,,there are still public schools that hold segregated extracuricular activities because they cannot enforce intergrated students outside classroom and shcool hours....Many entire towns in USA including their officials just wont let people of other races integrate into their town....Even living in south asia few years where many foriegners are kidnapped and robbed and even murdered,many foriegners are simly not affected by it...In the USA,some towns will exclude every last outsider that is of a different race......not so bad in panama and many other countries where foriegners get treated a little different.......in tennessee, I met locals who were white and wanted to take me home to stay with their family for rest a night,,one store owner said he was a preacher and that i bring my groceries to the counter and he bagged them and doubled the quantity and refused to take my money...i returned most of the extras were too heavy to pedal on bicycle,he called local radio to play his request on my headphone radio "all i want to do is ride my Bicycle" i made it 20 days 1000 miles on my bicycle and then put it in trash in cookeville and caught bus to west coast arizona and into hawaii later.....
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
annlive
2/28/2012 12:54 EST
I am very thankful for the lively discussion on this topic. I am going to Panama Mar 3-8. I'm a single mother with a 4 year old boy. This first trip I'm going alone and I'm very tall with blonde hair. I wonder how 'bad' it will be traveling alone. I am looking for towns/areas to consider moving to. I would like for my son to have a more well-adjusted view of the world other than the limited 'tunnel-vision' often created here in the US. I am hoping for him, and myself, to be able to make friends, including locals. I'm still investigating which school would be best for him. Does anyone have any advise about where is best to travel/reside as a single mom who wants a 'slower' pace of life and have good interaction with locals?
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
jeba
2/28/2012 13:16 EST
Hi,
what about Altos del Maria and the International School in Gorgona (if it has to be Panama)?
My kids are visiting that school and we are living in ADM. ADM is a very nice place to be because it is reasonably safe (at least I was told by people who have been residing here for longer), cooler and less humid weather (you can do without aircon), because it has some sort of social infrastructure (e. g. library, activity center, small gym), it's own internet forum which sometimes can be quite helpful, lots of expatriates who understand English, beautiful and quiet surroundings...
Was it not in Panama, I would love it. Because it is, will leave it.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
802mark
From: Panama
2/28/2012 13:31 EST
Heck yes I got a extra bedroom!!
I don't see you having trouble traveling single here, I see young ladies coming through our town all the time and no one bugs them.
interaction with locals you can have my main point on the post was to just use caution, go slow and keep a open mind as to how real the friendship is.
example I know a lady that is a gringo, very good looking and she is late 40's was having trouble finding american men her age to date, so after a while she had a fling with a local guy. that opened the flood gates to all the locals who thought they could get with her, even to the point of acting in rude ways towards her.
as far as slower paced life, that's all over panama so not one area is better then another for that, outside of panama city.
it depends on what type of life your looking for as to where, you like city, beach, condo's, a home, a farm the list goes on and on.
biggest jump is for your 4 year old if he can not speak and undestand spanish. They do learn it faster at that age, my 5 year old speaks it better then I do.
schools here, well you have the local schools then the private ones, at his age the local to me would be just fine. no need to pay 2k per year for K class to learn how to draw his hand.
where you end up will of course depends on your pocketbook.
They will think your rich even if your not, to them you have a lot more then they ever will. you say a smaller town, well if thats a smaller town with a big expat count then you will be safer then a little town with locals.
If you pick a school then you need to pick a area that is close to that school. like someone said the international school in gorgona, then you would need to be living there or in corondo.
I live in el valle de anton, it is a small town, lots of expat and super rich people from panama. It is very safe here, the weather is cool and fresh, and we do have local schools here, the problem is if I put my girl in the private school I'm looking at a 140km of driving per day.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
annlive
2/28/2012 16:43 EST
I will check out Altos del Maria.
Thanks for the info Mark. I would prefer something closer to the beach (a swim-able beach, as some countries I hear the beaches are not). I do need space for my big dog, as he will be coming with for the permanent move, so maybe a rental house. He is a great security measure, deterrent for crime, etc. (I would imagine as he stands almost as tall as my 4 yo) Internet availability is key. Other than that, I don't think I'm too picky.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
snyderman
2/29/2012 00:26 EST
We stayed in ADM for 3 nites in July-loved it but its 30 minutes down the hill to buy a quart of milk.That is why we bought in Coronado??
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
lizzysmom
2/29/2012 08:59 EST
There is a little Chino market in Sora that sells milk and last minute necessities. It's about a half mile from the ADM gate. Could have saved you the drive down to Coronado. Did you ask anyone?
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
jonoyakker
3/3/2012 03:19 EST
Mark, I've thought about your post...It's no secret that Panamanians aren't the warmest people of the Latin Americans but they have also had the most exposure to gringos through the canal and now through expats.
I believe we as gringos have jaded them to avoid us because we culturally tend to be cold. Many of us are just plain arrogant as well. I'm generalizing of course but I've traveled all over the world and gringos (N. America and Europe) are way more cold than Latin Americans. That's obvious.
Many Panamanians will bend over backwards for you if you are kind and friendly to them. Hell, we picked up a rental car the other day and the guy in the office helped me with my cellphone problem to the point of making calls for us and even he even escorted us to the phone store on his way home! He wouldn't take any money for his time but I'll be writing his boss a nice letter.
I make it a practice to make eye contact with everyone I come across everywhere and I usually offer a greeting and I find that Panamians are generally responsive.
I don't exactly want to live like them but I want to learn from them. I want to slow down, care more for others, enjoy the moment, worry less.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
jonoyakker
3/3/2012 03:20 EST
Mark, I've thought about your post...It's no secret that Panamanians aren't the warmest people of the Latin Americans but they have also had the most exposure to gringos through the canal and now through expats.
I believe we as gringos have jaded them to avoid us because we culturally tend to be cold. Many of us are just plain arrogant as well. I'm generalizing of course but I've traveled all over the world and gringos (N. America and Europe) are way more cold than Latin Americans. That's obvious.
Many Panamanians will bend over backwards for you if you are kind and friendly to them. Hell, we picked up a rental car the other day and the guy in the office helped me with my cellphone problem to the point of making calls for us and even he even escorted us to the phone store on his way home! He wouldn't take any money for his time but I'll be writing his boss a nice letter.
I make it a practice to make eye contact with everyone I come across everywhere and I usually offer a greeting and I find that Panamians are generally responsive.
I don't exactly want to live like them but I want to learn from them. I want to slow down, care more for others, enjoy the moment, worry less.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
jrod1944
3/16/2012 21:42 EST
802Mark
You hit on some good points in your post. However I think you need to quit trying so hard. Just be yourself and treat others only as you want to be treated. They are not those people they are fellow humans looking for the same things we are. They want the best for their children just like we. Lines don't excist we put them there. A 3 year old may be able to make friends as well as an olther child. Just another point of view.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
rnic464
3/20/2012 21:57 EST
Hello,
I am looking for some preliminary info on moving to Panama. I have been considering the move for about a year. I hope you guys have patients with me. I am retired and live on about $3500.00 monthly annuity. Would I be able to live on that comfortably? I don't live too extravagant. I just would like a little A/C and water. I am kinda leaning towards the beach. However that could change. I would think renting would be a good thing to make sure its for me. I just like a cold beer and good friendship once in a while. Thanks in advance. The Texan
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
802mark
From: Panama
3/20/2012 23:11 EST
Whats up REDNECK..
YEAH you can live like a freaking king on 3500.00
with a/c and yes you can even buy some bottle water. and yes you are right rent first until you understand where you really want to live..
cold beer is cheap and so is the friendship. women cost a little extra to be your friend but well worth it...
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
tharin4prez
3/23/2012 14:56 EST
I don't come in here often anymore ... but I do read most posts now and again. Mark is spot on w/ his second paragraph way up there at the beginning. It's especially hard for me when I do business somewhere in town I don't frequent often ... I'm blonde w/ blue eyes and it seems I have a giant ATM tattoo on my forehead.
I married Carmen some 20 years ago and have been in & out of Panama ever since. We have a house in a typical Panamanian neighborhood in Arraijan. I retired [at least thought I did] this past summer and moved down that way for good. For vacations here and there the place and neighborhood seemed fine as usual. But when we moved permanently over the summer, the place seemed WAY CROWDED and too loud! So we remodeled and put the place up for sale. While Carmen and the boys stay to sell the house, I came up here to the states and took a position w/ the company I worked for when I retired from the military to save a little more $$$ so we can build another home on our Penonome property.
Yes, I do fly back every few weeks to be w/ the family
I digress ... what I was getting at is, I've been in this Arraijan house since '91 and if you ask anyone, they'll tell you they know me. After all, I'm the only white guy around, and to the outsider, I seem very out of place in an typical Panamanian suberb. Do I know them? NOPE. I know who my neighbors are on both sides and across the road. But have no clue who lives on the street behind me or up the road more than 3 houses. And the rude part is I don't really care either. I wave and say hi when we pass going to/from the bus stop.
It took many years to get some of these folks to STOP coming over for handouts. A can of soup here or a bag of rice there ... or even someone asking if they can pick my bananas or limes as if I didn't want them from my own trees !!??
One can make great friends in Panama and I have. But deep inside I know it’s still a friendship of convenience. We barter when necessary kind of thing. And I know there are others on here that know what I mean.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
Nickimt
3/28/2012 21:27 EST
Hi Mark, again, I can appreciate all you do for this forum. I've not been here for a while to view because I've been planning my trip to Panama. My husband and I are retired and we will be there for all of April. This should prove to be quite interesting. Any recommendations on things we should definitely do while there? We're staying in The city for a while and Boquete for a while. Then we're going to roam around with our suitcases in tow. I hear Elle Valle is quite the place. Lucky you.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
eldukedeplas
3/28/2012 22:31 EST
If you are driving, check out the metal sculptor / wood artist after you leave the city. If I remember correctly, it's before Penoneme. Mark has some of his stuff, so maybe he knows precisely where he is.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
|
|
802mark
From: Panama
3/29/2012 22:55 EST
yes please send a few days in the city, that way you will know how much your thankful to be out of there. el valle is nice but so is many other places along the main highway that leads up to us. if you love it hot and beach then down there is where you need to be, if you love cooler weather and don't mind the rain then up the mountain you need to go...
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
Nickimt
3/30/2012 09:34 EST
Understood, we're also looking for property. We've been to C.R. Stayed for quite a while there as well. We felt te under-current you spoke about with the locals. I speak a small amount fof Spanish and ccould understand a lot of things the Ticos were saying about us, beautiful place but ........ So anyway, we're going to get a feel for Panama , check out Coronado as well for property and have lots of fun while there. I'm not duiving into any kind of purchase right now. Panama was on the top of my list for property.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
robinskelton
3/30/2012 11:26 EST
Mark, You keep saying "hot beach and cool El Valle" Let the record stand, My opinion is "warm beach and cold rainy El Valle" an 80 degree beach day with a wind is NOT HOT!!!
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
robinskelton
3/30/2012 11:30 EST
Nick, When you get to Coronado, stop in my office and I will show you around the place. No pressure - I am at Premier Realty just south of McDonalds about 300 meters.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
802mark
From: Panama
3/30/2012 17:24 EST
HUMM ok el valle is at 2060 ft. and your beach is what? sea level? so I might say we are cool. not cold, it has NEVER been cold here. I do have a fireplace, but it has never been used by me in 7 years, and I don't have any type of heaters in my home at all. you might not think its hot down there wind or no wind, but I can prove my point that your temp. gauge is busted because all one has to do is drive down there and start looking at the a/c units sometimes 4 in a row on every gringo home down there, to be able to say someone thinks it's dang hot.
now maybe just maybe its due to the fact that you and I came from a place where we did have hotter temps and if you moved to the beach from day one it might be the same to you, were I moved here from hotter temps and cold weather, so compared to that it's never cold to me nor to hot here. but once I go back down it is hot.. so many that is why we think they way we do and we don't agree.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
robinskelton
3/30/2012 17:36 EST
Mark, I have been in my place fro 5 months now and I have not turned on the a/c once. Nor have I turned on a fan. And most nights I use a blanket to keep warm. So, yes it is a matter of opinion. And, yes I came from Phoenix, AZ an that is HOT. Most people here are from Canada and that is COLD and I can definately see how they would think this is Hot here at the beach.
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
|
|
capt
3/31/2012 07:24 EST
Yes, up here in Canada we live in igloos, and your right it is cold!!!
Post a Reply
00abuse
|
|
|
|
