I know many people here in Boquete who live on social security only. Certain activities they can't take part in because their check has not arrived yet. Cost of living here is very good. Overall it is only 25% of what I paid in North America. Some things more expensive, some things a lot cheaper. My meager pension would not allow me a comfortable lifestyle in North America. Here in Panama, I live very well. jT

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IF you have to ask you can't afford it.. stay where you are.

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Ah, if only it were that simple! If you want to live
on-the cheap in Panama, how much are you willing
to give up? Dangerous sidewalks, loose dogs, garbage strewn everywhere, mediocre
goods and services- can
you accept things as they
are? Cheap???? You get
what you pay for. Panama
is fine just as it is. YOU'LL
determine its value to YOU.

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Inasmuch as I am fairly new to this blog and I haven't visited Panama yet, I can tell you from all of the research that I have done that Panama is a pure Capitalistic country where you get what you pay for. Pretty simple. I was reading a blog about a couple who bought a house on the cheap in a neighborhood that shall we say was a bit poor and rowdy. The house had no air conditioning and no screens on the windows. They go on to tell about the nightmares they had getting the power turned on and the late night music that blasts through the neighborhood every evening. On the other hand I read about people who have moved into one of the better expat communities who think they have died and gone to heaven. The only difference I can see is the amount of investment each has put up. The old saying applies in Panama as in the U.S. "You get what you pay for"

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You can live anywhere with social security. It all comes down to how much you receive and what are your expenses..

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Come down BEFORE you retire and check it out. If you plan on living on SS only ... then I would suggest renting something decent and learn the bus routes. Owning a car will put a dent in ones monthly SS.

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SS $ amount can vary a great deal. If you are at the minimum amount you can't afford to leave the USA, if you are at the maximum amount you probably have made a good living and don't really depend on it. The question should be can you live on $--- a month in Panama.

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Here is an example of a food cost plan: 1 Hojaldra with maple syrup and cinnamon and 1 Tortilla for breakfast and lots of water. Cost 15 cents for each item at the local restaurant, so breakfast is 30 cents. Lunch is 2 bananas and lots of water, so 15 cents more. I will have an egg cooked up with fried potatoes, and a tomatoe for 55 cents total. My total days meal can be $1.

I may also include lemons or oranges that fall off the trees all around me, and some of the strangest fruits, berries and vegetables in the wild when I go out hiking.

(Eggs are $1.40 a dozen, potatoes are 40 cents per pound, and tomatoes are 50 cents a pound.)

Sometimes people have extras from their garden and give me a bunch of bananas, or plantain, or a host of other vegetables and fruits.

I might splurge and for under 2 dollars a day, a cheap breakfast and lunch and for dinner a big plate of spaghetti and sauce with chicken pieces for $1.25, at my favourite typico restaurant.

You can't even compare food prices here in Panama to what it costs to eat in North America. Of course I could go out in Boquete for all you can eat, rib night at $17.

You have to know how many dollars you have, and eat and live accordingly.

For around 18 dollars a day if you stay for a month, you can get a really nice 5 room large apartment with Direct TV in the living room and all the American networks, high speed internet, complete kitchen facilities with full sized fridges and stoves, new Queen sized bed, large 3 piece washroom and shower with a hot water tank, not a suicide shower, a breath taking view from the mountains, outdoor patio, and completely furnished, just bring your toothbrush and clothing.

So you have to have at least $600 a month to live here in Boquete with the basics, in my opinion. I am extravagant and spend at least $1000. I enjoy my creature comforts. If you don't have $1000 a month per person, I don't think that you will be happy here......Thanks. jT

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NO your can't you will starve on your ss check living here, stay in new york and die faster.

listen up folks you watne to come here then forget about it being cheaper IT'S NOT... IT IS BETTER OVER ALLL GET IT? GOT IT> GOOD

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Oh yeah Mark. You're my hero. Lol

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I have a friend who called and said I'm coming to panama got my check approved and I am packing up.. what you get I asked, 1,027.00 per month. wow... so now what? he can't afford to live in the u.s. and he really can't afford to live here.

panama is NOT cheap people, yes some things are, but many are not. homes and land here are high. even junk land. how about 5.00 per meter, at that rate. well lets buy 10k meters at that price. which is equal to 2.47 acres so its 50k dollars. a little less then 25k per acre!! I got 3k per acre on some prime land before the crash.

my tv and computer run me 120.00 per month. my power bill is around 140.00 per month and we don't have a/c.

rent a home what 500.00 per month

food ?
washing?
bus or car?
gas for cooking and heating water?

water?

going out?

Now if you have say 2k or more on a s.s. check then you should be able to live here, anything less your pushing it.

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Mark is absolutely correct.My wife and I are now living in Panama and love the country and all it has to offer but if you think you can survive here on a $1000 a month stay up north as you cant do it for that.You will starve.This is not a third world country.In alot of ways it is much more advanced than Canada the great land of tax and regulations.So you have $1000 a month and then you need medical attention...how are you going to pay for that?Those days of cheap living are over in Panama.There are lots of starving expats trying to live off small pensions...try Cambodia.

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Panama James, am I understanding you correctly in that your food plan allows you to eat for $30.00/month??

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well sure it does rg,, have you not seen those tv commericals were sally begs you to send in just a dollar a day, you saw how those kids looked all fat and happy, I saw one with a pair of nikes on.

family of four we will spend maybe 35.00 to 40 per day. that's a big breakfast, bacon, eggs, bread, fruit. lunch chicken, peas, salad, mashed potatos bread. dinner pork chops, salad, other vegs. soup.

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People do live here on $30 a month per person for food but I choose not to. I choose to live at $80 a month. I tracked my personal food costs one month and I was able to do $30. I could probably do zero. It was simply an experiment for me to see if it could be done. I wouldn't want to live that lifestyle, but I could survive if I had do. Panama in general is a food basket, and I have fruit trees and a vegetable garden that provides plenty at very little cost. I don't spray anything. My banana tree is ready to give me 40 or so bananas, my tomato plants bring me a few tomatoes every day, I trade for onions and potatoes. I have wild chayote growing in the canyon below, orange and lemon trees near the banana tree. Our growing season is 12 months of the year. My balcony has every spice known to mankind. I have more fruit and vegetables growing that I can consume, so I trade with some neighbours who grow avocado, cabbage, beets, lettuce, papaya, pineapple, mangos, fruits and vegetables that I don't even know the name of. I do not have a green thumb and we are not farmers. You put a 2x4 in the ground here in Panama and it will grow...I could put a vegan food plan together where my food cost could be zero. $30 was a dollar a day which is possible, but I am closer to $2.50 a day. My wife spends $40 a week on grocery items for the two of us, on average. $160 monthly divided by 30 is $2.50 each person per day. We could do better if we wanted to put it to a test. I could send you a typical shopping price list, except that this website does not allow it. Pork at $1.45 a pound and beef at $1.90 a pound, some of the cheaper cuts. Your very expensive Filete beef cut is $3.50 a pound. At the high end, pork is $2.20 a pound. My wife went to North America recently and went out to a restaurant to buy chicken wings and a few jugs of beer for the kids. In North America, the bill was way over $100. Here in Panama, $15 to $20. Cans of beer here, start at 35 cents.......happy hour at a restaurant from 3 to 6pm, 50 cents a beer. You choose your lifestyle and it will cost you accordingly. Live for cheap or live the high life. It's all based on how many dollars you have per month and knowing the best places to spend it. You can buy bananas at The Rey for 39 cents a pound or you can go to the market and for 40 cents they will cut you off a banana limb with about 5 pounds of bananas on it. You learn where the deals are, as you go. There is no book on it, as it would need updates every day. A guy is selling fresh fish in his truck one day, then he's gone. Someone else may start up that business later. It's all good. jT

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Well, all I can say is, "Kathleen Peddicord,
get out of the way! You've
got nuthin' on Panama James!!"

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Peddicord is a hustler. Getting people to buy her publications.

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international living magazine is about the same.

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Here is this survey from Don Winner where he reports the average expat lives on around $1000 per month. One thing worth mentioning is that most of the respondents are "double occupancy". Also, many bought their homes so they pay no rent.

http://panamaadvisoryinternationalgroup.com/blog/news-from-panama/update-to-cost-of-living-in-panama/

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Yes, that international living is a bunch of crap.theyre selling dreams trying to make people believe one can live almost free. Yeah right people, don't believe it. It costs to live anywhere you go.

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I love those kinds of magazines and articles. People follow their stupid advise, come here, find out it just aint so and then go back to their country and talk bad about their experience. Others read about their experienses and push it out to their friends ... and before ya know it, there's fewer expats coming this way each year. More for me I always say :)

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Hey guys, reading through the thread my first thoughts are that both panamajames and 802mark are both right....it really does depend on your lifestyle but it also depends on where you live. We live just outside PC but all our shopping etc is done within the city. I can't get a banana branch full of banannas for 40cents. Mine cost 32 cents a pound. Our pork chops cost us $2.99 a pound and the cheapest beer is 45 cents a tin (miss the 'pubs' in the UK though, all that lovely beer on tap!!!!).

Just as Mark said, theres the tv, computer, phones, electric, water, travel expenses, car expenses i.e. petrol, insurance and now the test every year. All these things and more have to be taken into account and that doesn't include going out to eat, entertainment, the theatre (if that's what you enjoy) or the movies....don't forget moving costs and the cost of bringing your container here, infact the list goes on....

If I had to offer any advice about the cost of living here in Panama, I would reiterate what Mark tells everyone who asks about living here. COME HERE and rent for 6/12 months and find out for yourself if it can be done.

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HECK I wasn't done with that post. my cat posted that much... sorry.. anyway.

the point is here people is if you can't make it in the u.s. on your retirement or SS check then you really can't make it here. I for one would really like to see panama make the visa law that states you must show at least 2500.00 per month and 3k per month for a spouse to be able to even apply for a visa.

now it's 1000.00 yes I know that sounds bad but I have had 5 expats come to me last month and beg for a small loan to help them get pass some hard times. people old enough to be my folks at that. so this is why I say NO NO NO don't come here if your on a small income. it's just not going to work out for you. save your money and time and look for something else.. and by the way I have been all over south and central america and it's not much better any where you look so it's not a kick in panama's butttt it's a kick in all who sale you the happy happy dream of retirement on pennies a day here and other places.

I left the u.s. because I didn't like the way our govenment was going. that's the main reason. I could see the writing on the wall long before someone took out a pen, and what I have today I am so blessed to have because if I even tried today to do it, I would never be able to afford any of what I have. panama's real great deals set sail about 5 years ago. it's gone. now you pay top dollar for everything.

so that's it... don't believe the hype. come down here and spend a month or two or three before you pack up and move here full time.. I have posted this more times then I can count and I guess it either doesn't get posted, or if it does no one reads it.. or maybe they do and they think ahhhhh what's this guy know? everyone else is saying heck yes you can live like a king for 1k per month,, well that is so true if you live in the local dump and eat at the local dump you can be the king here.

I love all you people.. and that is what makes me so mad about all of it.. they smell money and will tell you a person who has never been here what you want to hear to get you here and then they get paid. that's how they live here like kings on your dollar..
Now if you have money then the world is yours down here,, anything and everything you could dream of can be yours. and I do mean everything. but if your counting pennies then please just stay home and cook on the bbq.

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An other option, would be to check out Ecuador. It' far less expensive, very beautiful and safe. Yes, Quito and Quyaquil are large cities and they do have crime like any other large city. Quenca, Salinas, Manta are smaller. The currency is the US dollar and some places have a strong expat community, but knowing Espanol is more important than it is here. Still you need to experience the reality before you make the plunge. It's simply different in other countries and if you don't have a lot of money, you will need to "shed your gringo" to get by. FYI

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ECUADOR NO,,,,,PANAMA NO,,,,STAY AWAY FROM ANY COUNTRY THAT USES THE DOLLAR AS A CURRANCY.... SO THE DOLLAR GOES SO DOES ECUADOR AND PANAMA...SORRY

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I've been saying that same thing for a long time. and people ask me why then are you here? well simple, I can grow food, chickens, and fish, I have the people and weapons to shoot anyone who comes to steal them... I won't freeze or die of heat and I'm two hours away from two million people who won't be able to come up here.

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please tell us why you feel this way and be specific.

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I thought the same thing about the collapse of the dollar but I read an article where the author states that basicly all countries will have to adjust their currency to the dollar. Don't know if that's true but I think the dollar has to have an effect worldwide. But no, I'm not bullish on the dollar.

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Tis true, I have the same concern about the dollar. However, Ecuador's true asset is oil. They are break evev at $70/Barrel which is one reason why gasoline has been at $1.48 / gal for the last ten years. They also, along with several other SA countries have a plan B. ........ No need to shout here. Just having a discussion.

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Its good to hear your honesty on this subject. I appreciate all (well most) of your comments and thank goodness you have taken the time to lay some reality on this subject. In the US now everyone wants something for nothing. In my experience those who end up in a comfortable place in life are the ones who were willing to do what everyone else didn't want to do.
International Living has painted a very pretty picture and now that a blind person can read the writing on the wall (about the economic disaster) everyone wants to live in paradise with servants on their social security.
Well folks it doesn't work that way. You have to "plan ahead" and put some work into life. If you are 65 years old and didn't plan/save for your retirement, you'd better be willing to make some major lifestyle changes, learn a new language and be prepared for a whole new cultural shift in life. Or as you say, "stay home, and barbeque".
I plan to rent first then take my time to find a place that I can keep a few horses, cows and some chickens....have a decent view of my "privacy" and enjoy this chapter of my life.
So keep the good advice coming! Can't wait to meet ya'll

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I'm not American, but I am still a fan of the US dollar for now. There is no other currency that isn't tied to the US dollar in one way or another. If all the currencies fail, the US dollar will end up on top of the heap. The Swiss Franc was making moves, then they tied it to the Euro and it dropped like a rock. Some people have already jumped ship on the US dollar and ended up in worse situations. The Chinese have too much American debt. You can buy property, but how much do you want to bet that property values are going to take a huge dive. Keep a balanced portfolio is all you can do. If anyone wants to speculate, tell us about it here.....Good place for a discussion. jT

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It becomes clearer to us that we are no longer secure (financially or physically) living in the US. We just finished a 3 year contract in Charlotte NC and moved back to our home in Tennessee. It was not safe to be in most of the greater Charlotte area not even during the day. Since we live in the country/mountains in Tennessee it is a lot safer. Yes we also own guns and know how to use them, but how sad to need weapons in our own home. However, East Tennessee is also known as the Meth State as the dealers cook/hide up in the mountains. These are just some of the reasons we are looking at moving to Panama, I would think the costs are probably comparable as we have here with the exceptions gas $3.50/gal yesterday. My husband (Vietnam Veteran) & I are deeply saddened by the downward spiral this country is in. We are looking for a place that offers safety & healthy lifestyle, happy atmosphere, nice people, mostly peacefulness we hope that will be Panama. We are much more fortunate than most because we can leave and feel comfortable living with other cultures. If cheap was the main thing we were concerned with East Tennessee is still that, probably more so than Panama.

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America's biggest problem right now is debt. If we don't stop this deficit spending we will topple like Egypt or Rome. That aside, the us is still a land of great opportunity, though its getting more difficult for businesses. The govt needs to get out of the way and let businesses run.
China will soon have more middle class people than the total us population. Their growth will not make us a second class country.

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people need to stop reading the junk international living puts out,, they are in business to make money. if telling lies makes them money they will do it,, I have spent much time in Peru and therer is no way you can live on 1000 dollars a month and eat everyday.. for that matter I doubt if there is any place in S.America you can live on 1000 dollars a month,

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I totally agree with the last comment.NO you can not live in Panama for $1000 per month unless you are living in a mud hut and either catch or shoot what you eat.Again this International Living is giving alot of people a false hope of a cheap life in Panama.My wife looked everywhere for a bread maker and the best price $129.usI bought a car wash brush with an adjustable handle and it connects to the hose and it cost $34.95 us
Marigold seeds in small packets $1.75 us each
Need I say more

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Re: the dollar - and every other currency. The world banks all print trying to keep even with one another. As long as Bernanke keeps printing the $ will continue to lose purchasing power and eventually be worth nothing. Every fiat currency in history has gone to nothing. The only safe haven is gold. Buy coins, not bars and not numismatics.
Al Thomas
THE ALCHEMIST
syndicated financial column

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Your input is appreciated! Having hard numbers to look at helps immeasurably. I'm moving down from New York City, so it still seems dirt cheap to me (a typical monthly grocery bill here, not including drinking or going out to eat, is about $400 for two people), but it's nice to have an idea of what my budget will look like when I move. Keep it coming, please!

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Anyone can live here for $1000 a month, but you could do the same in the US. Don't own a car, live in a shack, homeschool your kids, grow your own food, wear old clothes, don't ever do anthing that costs money. If thats your lifestyle, yes come on down!

I was shocked at how much we paid to move here and am only now back on track after a year. Private school for my kid $8100 + $9,000 donation the first year. $1500 for a bargain house in the city, $600 a month for food, -- make sure you add the expenses for your lifestyle. Luckily, we bought our land in 2004 and will soon finish our home. Thanks Mark -- your posts are spot on and entertaining to boot.

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Scotty is right about living on a social security cheque. It would be tough, but if you are used to living on a fixed budget, I believe that it is way cheaper to live here than in North America.

I stay away from food and drink imports. I buy local from the farmers and tradespeople. I know my prices so that I don't get Gringo'd. I buy from Gringos who are entrepreneurial and have things for sale in their retirement. Bread, coffee, complete gourmet meals that you heat and serve, home made pickles, sewing, carpentry, electrical, plumbing.

Gringos who retire have 40 or 50 years of experience behind them.

Barter is commonplace.

A retired opthamologist explained to me the entire process of cataract removal and relieved any fears. Retired doctors and nurses are everywhere here. They aren't practising any more for dollars, but they aren't dead yet.

$24,000 a year is perfect and anything less puts you on a budget of sorts. $12,000 a year would be tough, but I know of people who are doing it.......

They buy mostly fresh fruits and vegetables from the locals and don't eat meat anymore. They have given up fried and fatty foods. Instead of a car, they bought a backpack and some good hiking shoes and walk everywhere.

They don't visit the Casinos anymore and choose the library instead where they have 15 computers to use, so they don't have to purchase internet services. They get together with other Gringos and plan exercise and dance-ercise routines to stay fit and healthy.

They plan movie nights and play cards and games in each others houses.

Some people want to retire near the locals and don't want any Gringos in their lives. It's your choice how you live here, and the nice thing is, you have choices. Thanks........jT

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Are you talking 24,000.00 a year per person or per couple?

Thank you,

Laurie

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My neighbour, a single gentleman, says he spends $20,000 a year by himself. So that might mean that two can live almost as cheaply as one as it doesn't cost us, a couple, much more than that.

I quit the two pack a day habit. I limit myself to MacDonalds, KFC and Pizza Hut once a month but I eat at restaurants a lot. I stick to the typical local style of restaurant here and get away with meals that cost me less than if I bought the groceries, cooked it myself, and with no dishes to wash (as long as I remembered to bring a few dollars with me).

Friends in North America sent me a note the other day, how a bunch of them went to one of my old favourite restaurants, and it only cost them $25 each for dinner. It costs me $25 a week for dinner out every night here. Mind you, a chicken may wander through the dining room. Very brave chickens here.

I just don't understand how people in Panama can say that it costs just as much to live here as it does in the States. Maybe if you live in Panama City, I don't know. Gasoline is probably the same. Imports from the US are probably the same or more expensive because they are imports. Maybe the southern states can compete with fruit and vegetables. We have a 12 month growing season here.

The Atlas beer company is right down the road where you can get the small bottles of beer for 35 cents in some stores. You learn where the deals are if you are a thrifty person. If you have all the money in the world, you just have to find the place that sells whatever it is that you would like to buy and pay the price. No Walmarts here. You have to do some hunting. And once you find it, buy a lot of them because they will probably never be there again. Try to find red Cayenne pepper. I found a bunch at the Rey the other day and bought all 10 bottles. I tried the local ketchups here and they can keep them. I still like Heinz. I hardly use ketchup anymore however.

To answer your question, my wife and I spend $24,000 yearly on living. Vehicle, medical, travel, food, accomodation.......the works. We don't do without but have talked about cutting back a bit, from time to time......We probably won't.........jT

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I currently live in NYC, and we are in the process of moving to Panama next year. Initially we will have to live off a tight budget while we build our home etc. I'm not at retirement age and will be living off savings and investments. I do think that someone could live off 1000 month if they wanted to. I plan to for the 1st year or so. Whenever I visit, which is often, I'm always amazed at how little I spend while there. Now keeping in mind that we're zipping here there and everywhere and really not trying to be frugal. I guess it just depends on your lifestyle. We are vegetarians, eat out at a lot of the typico type places, don't mind picking fruit of trees, (actually quite like that!!) and take mostly buses. I purchased a small Panamanian home to live in while building so we will have little overhead as far as monthly bills etc. For us it will not be that hard to do, although not ideal. My point is it can be done. I agree w/ Jim, once you get the hang of things you'll know where all the bargains are and where not to go. If you can find a cute Panamanian rental for 3-400-which there are plenty- you can budget the rest. I say come down and visit for a few months to see what areas are suitable and the type of lifestyle you'll have. You'll get a good idea of things that way. Buenos suerte!! ~Cynthia*

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Panama James I like your style! I agree with you -- there really are two Panamas. I live in the city and it is a different economy. I think of it this way:

Panama City vs. Miami:
Panama City is a little cheaper

Chiriqui, Panama vs Sedona, Arizona:
Chiriqui is MUCH cheaper -- 12 month growing season, beautiful and clean

We can't wait to escape PC every weekend!

Scotty

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I couldn't agree with you more Scotty. I was born in a big city, probably 5 million by now. I moved to the country in my twenties and never went back. When I came to Panama, I stayed in the city for awhile and realized that I was a country boy at heart, from the big smoke. I enjoy my times in the city nightlife, but I can't wait to get back to Boquete and the country again. Farmers markets and entrepreneurs at the street markets, selling their wares. John Denver and the Eagles had the right idea, and I got a peaceful easy feeling, rocky mountain high. Just as a note about Costa Rica, if you haven't seen this note yet: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/05/us-costarica-quake-idUSBRE8840XK20120905

....jT

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Do you mind me asking what your social security is? Mine is only $863 and I'm considering the move but don't know if it's enough.

Also, how much is internet service and cable and land line?

Thanks!

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Can You Opt out of Medicare?

http://blog.ehealthinsurance.com/2012/02/can-you-opt-out-of-medicare-and-still-collect-social-security/

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The Government started off giving me a $900 monthly pension in 2005 and it was enough, and an additional $400 in 2009 which was really good, and another $550 coming in 2013, so that is even comfortably liveable at that point. $863 a month sounds pretty light, even for Panama....forget about Panama City......you would be looking at a small town in the bread basket of rural Panama....fish and farm and hunt for good deals......If you have some savings and you can barter with your talents, and find a rich Panmanian woman, you should be alright.....jT

Internet services at the libraries and some restaurants and stores is free, and wireless. I buy a claro stick for $5 and it lasts me for 15 days, so $10 a month for snail internet performance, probably 128k on a speed test. You can pay more. In our apartment complex, the internet costs about $75 a month for a decent 512k. Everyone uses Cel phones here. I buy $15 cards on my $20 phone and it lasts a few months depending on my calls. There is a trick here that Panamanians use. They call someone with one ring and hang up. That means, to call them and use up your Gringo minutes because you are so much richer than they are. Satellite and cable services are $30 to $50 a month. There are package deals with cable & wireless........too many options to list.......Thanks. jT

Date Posted: 9/6/2012 3:59 PM

Do you mind me asking what your social security is? Mine is only $863 and I'm considering the move but don't know if it's enough.

Also, how much is internet service and cable and land line?

Thanks!

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It's not enought,, you have to have at less 1000.00 per month to apply for a visa. stay where you are, we do not want people that onlt have that much to live on coming down here to try to live.... stay at your mothers house and eat her food, or come here and eat whatever my dog doesn't eat....... who pays your way now? with 800.00 per month.. are you kidding me? dont' come here, or do and beg in the streets with the rest of the expats who thought they could live here like kings for those pennies....

not trying to make funny of your income,, just making fun of you for thinking you can make it here on that,, heck you can't make it in the u.s. on that..... we don't hand out food stamps here in panama, we don't help people in need. here.. we don't have churches who hand you free food and a place to sleep... get it? go away...

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well you could live here in Panama on that amount if you didnt eat,need medical attention,ride on a bus,buy toilet paper,toothpaste,clothes and forget sun block...as Mark said stay where you are as there are tonnes of expats who have tried and they dont last long ...cant quite make it to the next cheque...dont come.

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and for those of you who actually read Don Winner...read all his articles with the thought that someone is paying him to promote what ever he writes about.....he is a promoter/salesman ..ask the people with real life experiences ....living in Panama day to day....and the same goes for International LIving....read that but check the facts out yourself...not some magazine trying to become another giant....

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00abuse

Good evening everyone. I am rather new to this forum, but can i ask why the hostility to the gentleman asking if he could live there on his social security? Isn't this a forum to ask such questions and to find out information? Many people are looking to find a place that is less expensive due to different circumstances in their lives and are just looking for information. I don't understand the negative comments about where he may live now and saying to come there and eat what someones dog eats...? Did I miss a post where the gentleman asked if he could get food stamps or hand outs from a church or a place to live? If I did I apologize. I was just taken back by the response to someones genuine request for simple information.

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30abuse

ok...everybody calm the hell down. I'll answer this and will probably get a s*&t load of flack for it.

Sure you can live on 8 bills a month but you have to be willing to live like a campesino dude...I mean toatlly like a Panamanian in the country side. That means rice and beans and ocassional meat... minimal health care, never going out to eat...never owing a car, no internet other than free "internet por todo". ...and a million other things you take for granted up in the states.

The vast difference that you will find here is that these Panamanians who live on that dollar figure of 800 a month have a saftey net you don't have...family!!! Very stong family ties amount to the Panamanian version of Medicaide, food stamps and all the other programs existing in the USA for someone in your position... that are in no way available here.

My suggestion if you are willing and able to do so ...is to find a way...in the States of in Canada if that's where you are...to start a little biz...maybe an internet biz that will give you another 4-5 hundred a month so you can live the type of life you're used to in the north...here in Panama.

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00abuse

so now you'd have around 1200-1300 a month...still no livin large but you'd get by...on 800 kiddo...sorry to tell you those days are over here in Panama...if they ever existed to begin with. Rethink all of this BEFORE coming! Or try maybe Equador or one of the lesser known South American countries.

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00abuse

Well I will be happy to tell you why I tried to step on his or her dreams and was ugly about it.

last week I had three expats come to me begging for money to buy food,the other needed money for his power bill, yet another just needed a little cash to get them through some hard times.

A few years ago I rented one of my apts. to a man who became sick, was broke, had overstayed his visa and had fines for that, and the care he needed was going to cost a lot due to him having to stay in a full care home for a long time. so the only way out for him was to go back to the u.s. where he could get that care from the V.A. hospital for free.. this man had no family and no money. who do you think got stuck paying every bit of that BILL to get him back to the u.s.? ME.

I see expats all the time drinking the cool aid and thinking that what they just read on some web site is true that they can live the good life on pennies a day here, and you can't.

at 800 a month s.s. check that isn't enought to even apply for a visa to live here.

you need to understand that there is NO GOVERNMENT HELP here for expats if you don't have money you don't eat. they don't have a church group that goes around and feeds the poor around here. There is no safety net for you here.

just like in costa rica they have a lot of expats that walk the streets and beg for money or pull scams on other expats just to be able to eat. many have turned to crime as well.

the same thing is starting to happen here as well. It hurts me to see these expats begging for money here. so that is why I was so ugly about it, I take the gloves off and hit you in the face maybe to help you before you add your name to the list of people who become beggers as well to be able to eat here.

I think and wish panama would push the visa amount up to 2,000.00 per month income to apply for a visa here. as it is it's 1000.00. at 2k per month yes you can live here and I would help anyone that wants to try to make the move here, but if you have 1k or so please don't try it.

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01abuse

When I begin using a new forum I read or review the subject of posts for as far back as I can go. Doing so on the Panama forum would show that this question comes up about every six weeks by a new participant. Repetitive replys of an answer the poster doesn't want to hear has to be frustrating.

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00abuse

Vlastelica, some of the people who post here give you the real deal they don't give you something you want to hear. These folks live there and they know what's going on. I was there for a month and I can tell you , these posters know their stuff.

All of the info I got from here before I went was spot on.

No offense but be glad there is no sugar coating here. You're on your own when you up and decide to move to another country. Nobody's going to give you anything free. This info is priceless if you're considering the move.

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00abuse

I am a bit ashamed that while I share your sentiments about some of the venomous responses to this man, I remained silent. I'm relatively new also and I think I can safely say that the vast majority of the conversations and advice are positive and helpful. I am moving to Panama not only to start a small business (and yes things will be tight) but I bring the best of the American spirit with me and I am leaving behind any vestiges of hostility, that seems at times to have reached celebratory levels in some segments of American society. Good luck and God speed on your future endeavors and keep posting!

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00abuse

Here's the drill in a nut shell guys...I tried to soften it up a bit but if you're looking for the unedited version and the absolute truth...someone who will tell you what the rest of us only have the balls to think?...better listen to Mark802

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00abuse

If you have ever watched the old American Idol with Simon Cowell, Mark is your Simon Cowell. Paula was on drugs like International Living so forget them, so I liked the Randy approach ....Dawg, Dood.....Listen........$800 or $900 is very light, if that is all you have every month. If you have some savings, if you are an entrepreneurial type, then you have a chance. I know a Gringo on social security who was a welder. He makes iron and steel flowers and decorative things for the rich expats in Boquete. He's in demand because he's artistic and he's good. You can rent a table for $6 at the Gringo market and display your talents. I know a fellow who saw a great garage operation, excellent mechanic and great location, but it needed some business help. He promoted it as the Gringo place to go, met new clients at the front entrance and shook hands, did extra work complimentary, and picked up the business dramatically, then put the money into hoists and tools and more people. There are many people in Panama who had a rough time of it in North America and have come to Panama for a new start in life. All that you can do is try it. Spend 6 months here and see how it works out for you. Listen to Mark when he says that you won't be getting any handouts. The locals here live on very little but they do have family to fall back on as Tizzy mentioned. She knows of what she speaks. Simon Cowell was wrong about a few singers, one being Jennifer Hudson who ended up winning an Oscar. Others he boohoo'd ended up with fame and fortune. Be as tough on yourself as he was on singers, and even if you can't hold a tune to save your life, you might be able to learn to sing if you had to. How about Tiny Tim, and Gomer Pyle.......Gollee.....
Come on a holiday and see if you think it can work out, but listen closely to those who live here, because they know...Are you feeling lucky......jT

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10abuse

Your advice is duly noted. Thanks to you and all the trailblazers who have gone before us on our individual journeys!!!

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00abuse

I think his reply was well put. To give up what little you have and to jump from the US to Panama, a country that you have not adequately prepared yourself for is setting yourself up for a disaster.
The US and the Panamanian govt will not bail you out! Even if you have $4000 a month to spend you MUST prepare yourself and do a lot of research.
I've met people who've traveled to Panama on a vacation, then returned home and sold everything to move here. Then after 2 months they hate it because #1 they don't speak Spanish
#2 They hate the culture because it's not like "home" and
#3 They were never happy in the US & they bring their miserable attitudes with them!
ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING! SO PICK A GOOD ONE!
#4. And frequently: they are running from the US because of a "problem" ( financial, legal, medical, mental, whatever...) and the problem does not just disappear......
And frankly he is doing them a favor. Please don't move to any country without enough money to sustain yourself! You become a burden for others and very often end up in a situation with tragic results.

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00abuse

Amen

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00abuse

Re: Mark and TizzyLizzy's comments. Maybe that's why Belize requires $2000 US for their pensionado program?? BTW. Junkyard Dog alive and doing well.

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00abuse

I've been thinking about this person who originally asked the question and possibly there's a way for him/her to do it. Now...let's say you have another 1 or 2 pals with the same amount of doe re mi who want to become "escapee's" with you.They better be your bestest friends as there's nothing that'll f&^k up a friendship faster than living together or marriage haha!( other than maybe loaning that friend money...a total no no) So now you have let's say 3 people x 865= around 2500 balls a month...THAT... you guys could do! Splitting the essentials like your roof, cable, internet and that sort of thing....and a little s&^tbox car for grocery shopping and getting yourself to a decent doctor...when split 3 ways? You could do that!
Although my preference has always been to live alone ...I did live in a commune in the late 60's and it was actually pretty nice to have folks around and all of us chipped in to cover basics. It's a particularly good idea as we get older so that when you have the BIG ONE someone who gives a s&^t if you're still going to be able to pay your part of the action...survives the heart attack...just sayin'

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00abuse

BTW welcome back JKD...on a scale of 1-10...how's your moooooood doing dude? ha!

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00abuse

Tizz. 9.5, 'bout like the quake in CR. Just layin' low, like any old surfer from Cali. Quakes in Cali are dime a dozen, but a quake in the mountains would be different. How you doin'? Just readin' this post and gettin' a kick out of it. You pose an interesting situation for people pooling their incomes to live there for 'cheep'. TC. J.Y.D

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00abuse

I just happen to have a 23.5 acre or 9 Hectare farm with only remnants of buildings that you could build a commune on, in Penonome. It's on the river, you can raise cattle, grow crops, build a communal house structure for multiple occupancy. I don't need it now. Maybe never will. I could sell it cheap at $5000 per building lot. If you get enough communal minded people together, you can buy the whole thing, one piece at a time. That was my plan many years ago when I bought it. A safety net for then the sh*t hit the fan. To start a North American Commune and housing project. I'm doing other things now in Chiriqui Province. It could be a cheap way of starting out in Cocle province Panama and living on Social Security. It's a bread basket there. Food and farms galore, hospital, short distance from the ocean, big enough for a MacDonalds. I got rid of my pony tail, tooley oil and granny glasses, but I lived the hippy lifestyle for many years and still enjoy organic fruits and veggies. We'll call the place, "The Panama Forum Social Security Farm." If you need it, it's there..........jT

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00abuse

Panama James...Love the title of the Commune!!! Too funny...Safari tents or yurts...?? :)

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00abuse

I vote Yurts! In a circle paths leading to a main lodge in the middle....aww just like old home week in Big Sur!

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00abuse

Thanks Vlastelica. I thought the name was just perfect for the project. My original plan was Geodesic Domes. They are compact enough to fit into a family car, yet large enough when constructed to sleep a family of 4 very comfortably. Plenty of headroom inside too, central height is 2.135m (7ft). The dome has painted additions. I was thinking camoflage to blend into the jungle, yet mailboxes on the outside to receive your social security cheques. And all the while, maintaining very stylish windows. And then I found these fibreglass and acrylic domes that assemble in a few hours that are the size of a regular house, depending on how many pieces you want to pop together. I had this whole community planned and divided into neighborhoods. I just never got around to it. Maybe one day..........jT

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00abuse

Yurts are good. A little too temporary for me. If we were more nomadic and wanted to cart them around, it would make more sense........ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FinishedYurt.jpg ....................The main lodge in the middle should be the first structure built......then we build a few individual camoflage domes. I have seen these go up in an hour or two, they snap together and you bolt them. Wind won't pick them up because of the outer shape. You can't hang pictures worth a darn on the inside. It's an inexpensive house, to be sure........jT

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00abuse

go look at Calearth.org or .com.

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00abuse

I see you think very higly of yourself mark and not so much other people.. who said and who do you think paid to help the guy get back to the States. and you but the big ME.. if you are going to help someone, don't expect kudos , do it because you want to, if it makes you angry to help people than don't do it,, but really from reading some of your other post, you seem so be naturally miserable and want everyone to know it...

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10abuse

Trueno 815 my post wasn't to get kudos from you or anyone else, the main point of that post was don't come here without enough money to take care of yourself. stop reading the web sites they say you can live like a king for under 1k. not true. the story I told was of one man who thought he could and found himself stuck and sick. I had no choice but to help him, did I want too? NO I didn't want to spend my money to bail out a fool, but since he was renting a apt. from me I had no choice.

I'm not here for the beauty contest, nor do I care what you think of me this is a site to help expats with questions, not a site to voice your thoughts on me. your whole post was a waste of time both mine, the readers and yours.

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00abuse

I love threads like these!

Just from the previous 80+ posts, at least 5 future expats have lost the initiative to seek Panama as a new home.

BTW ... Here's something else for some to think about. When the big muddy river expansion is complete, there will be thousands of people returning to their respectful country's, thus leaving a gaping hole in Panama's economy again .. just like when the bases pulled out.

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00abuse

No My post was not a waste of time, I got the response I thought I would get,, showing again that you are swimming in your own misery..

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00abuse

This is a question that comes up a lot on the forum. Some people get bent about repeat questions,a Lott of us realize that the question is new to you.
Don't take offense to anyone attitude.

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00abuse

This is a question that comes up a lot on the forum. Some people get bent about repeat questions,a Lott of us realize that the question is new to you.
Don't take offense to anyone attitude.

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00abuse

to trueno815, if Mark18 is living in misery, I want to join him. I have met Mark in Panama and he knows what he is talking about. I've been going to Panama for the last 7 years and I have seen how the prices of everything has gone up. Mark does help people, and he may write about it on this site, but it's not for your or anyone else's approval. The facts are the facts, if you don't like it stay off the site, this is an INFORMATIONAL SITE, people ask questions, people respond and may provide a real life experience.

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00abuse

@players162 I am not saying he doesn't help anyone, I only said if someone is going to help someone don't complain about it,, that is all I have to say on this subject,

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00abuse

@players162 I am not saying he doesn't help anyone, I only said if someone is going to help someone don't complain about it,, that is all I have to say on this subject,

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00abuse

Its true many repeat questions and some are nice enough to repeat answers. Personally I think people should do their homework and look through the archives

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00abuse

Interesting trueno815 that you were able to pick up on that. Mark does come across as a miserable pr*ck who needs an enema badly, sometimes. Perhaps he doesn't realize how he sounds to other people, or maybe this is all an act, sort of like showbiz for Mark........he can act illiterate and not spell to save his life while on the blog, but perhaps in real life he's not like that at all. During the daytime he could be a very nice mild mannered literate person, but at night time he gets on the blogs and that other personality comes out. Good to hear your thoughts.....I thought it was just me..........jT

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00abuse

Ok, You are right I can't spell, never could and yes sometimes my words get mixed up, happy now? Yes I do come across a little harsh sometimes, but are we not all adults here? I am willing to help anyone who ask but first get off your lazy butt and do a search, most questions on here have been asked over and over and the search block is on the left hand side of this site. Now if you can't find what your looking for ask someone here,they will tell you...
like the lady asking if they needed a police report from all police stations, yes I poked a little fun at it but so what, it was lite humor. I am frank with the replies I make, many don't like that. but I am what I am, at least when I do post it's a true statement.

panamajames are you true to this board? I mean you post your replies stating how wonderful your neck of the woods are, and how you can get this done and that done in no time.. how you know a place for someone to rent and whatever the person's question is you have the perfect reply. you make it sound so good.. BUT Have you once posted on here that you CHARGE 1,000.00 for your bank service? or that you get a kick back commission on any thing you rent up there?

see I don't mind a fellow making a dollar as long as you let that be known up front, so the people you hand out this advise too about where you live can judge it. I don't charge anyone a dime. I don't make my living off of expats who don't know what side of panama is closer to colombia. These people are trying to ask real questions to make up their minds where they want to live in this country. most don't have a clue so they depend on people that have already moved here to be up front and tell them the truth about these places without a hidden motive.

This is a free site set up to help other people, NOT to run a business from. But if they allow that then fine, all I say is be up front with that, state that, yes I can help you and this is what I charge for my service.

I am in no way miserable, if I was I would sale this place and be on a jet to some place new. El VALLE DE ANTON, for most is out of reach, which I like, we don't need another expat with a s.s. check of 1,200.00 per month

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00abuse

Gee fellow. Take your meds and get some rest.

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00abuse

Rbirdog is right Mark. Take a pill and chill. I personally don't care if you are illiterate or can't spell or never got to high school. That's your business. You deal with it well. I have been helping people since 2005 with banking in Panama and I have never charged one nickel for that service. Find me a person who I charged for my bank services in Panama and I will give you $1000. I spent 30 years in and out of banks and credit unions in North America. In 2005 we were getting people in Panama up to 8% in interest on CD's and for the past 2.5 years, we have been getting them up to 8.5% on CD's and 5.5% on savings accounts. We have all made a bundle over the years......It's changing now and the best I can do for people is get them 6% and some other products I can do 7%. If people want to play the game, I charge them $1000 to get a Corporation. The $1000 goes to a lawyer. If you can find one cheaper, let me know. As for apartments, I own the apartments so you obviously know nothing of what you speak. I have an E-Cedula and I work here legally in Panama. People hire me for $10 an hour to take care of properties here for them that they buy. I travel for them. I take pictures, I meet with their realtors and lawyers. I am their eyes and ears here in Panama for them, someone they can trust. I have recently added the rental and the sale of cars here in Boquete to what I do. I give out free information on this site. If people want expat services, they have to come to Boquete and talk to me or at least e-mail. Thanks. jT

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00abuse