Tmaul
2/15/2013 06:40 EST
Hi everyone, my wife and I are thinking of retiring to Panama and I'm trying to get a feel for relocating costs. Can anyone give me an idea as to the cost to ship our household goods to Panama City, items would be possibly furniture, clothing, small appliances, small power tools, etc.
Thanks for your help
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JohnF13
2/15/2013 09:21 EST
I'm moving from Canada and just got a quote for shipping a 4' x 4' x 4' box (general household items, no furniture) weight 500 lbs from Ottawa to PC, cost by sea $600 or by air $1000. This guy is my regular shipper, I do quite a bit of business with them. Customs extra, of course!
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JohnF13
2/15/2013 09:35 EST
I believe he does.
Company is:
Cole Freight International, my local address for them is 140 Thad Johnson Road, Ottawa ON Tel # 613-738-2211, contact name Darko (yes, that is his real name!) ext 233. Email Darko.Kepic@Cole.ca
I would suggest that you only email him if you are serious - don't overburden him, he's busy!
John F.
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panamaguy
2/15/2013 09:47 EST
Hi the costs to ship household items to Panama far exceeds just buying new items when you get here and customs is always on the heavy side.I myself now living in Panama would not ship anything except prized personal possessions.You end up bringing far too much stuff you just do not need.Now is the time to reduce.
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panamajames
2/15/2013 10:30 EST
And I disagree with selling stuff in North America for nickels and buying things here to replace them. I made that mistake. If you have nice stuff, it is worth it to keep it, in my opinion. Of course we all have our opinions here. That is what this Expat Exchange is all about. If I had to do it over again, I would not bring a 20 foot container of the best of the best, I would have brought a 40 foot container and brought it all. I have friends who brought 2 of the 40 foot containers and haven't regreretted it for a moment.
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AuntieFlo
2/15/2013 10:38 EST
I ran into a guy who spent $20,000 shipping two cargo containers of stuff from the US to PC. He said it was because he couldn't give the stuff away in the US and he wouldn't have made anything on it in a garage sale. The shipper scammed him and when he opened the two containers they were only half full.
And what was in those containers? Box's of wicker baskets and trinkets and just stuff you collect when you have a house and cabinets and you fill them over 40 years. Yes there was furniture and every piece of household living you could ever need. He and his wife couldn't figure out how to donate to GoodWill or to the local Veterans Association. He said he spent the money to give those things away to the people in Panama.
Leave it all in the US. Don't put it in storage. Pack your clothes and a few pictures and move to Panama. You can get everything you need in the country. The only thing we miss is a good vacuum cleaner and my husbands set of knives for the kitchen. Other than that we don't miss anything.
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Paraguam
2/15/2013 11:07 EST
Much useful info here, but unmentioned is the quality/price of goods in Panama. As with Uruguay and other LatAm countries, everything I hear elsewhere is to the effect of "say goodbye to quality and variety, and don't expect to save much if any money replacing your stuff here." Including from world travelers I know personally who are entirely sympathetic to their new homelands and disgusted with the state ameriKa.
Neither are we looking for miracles in countries known to be 50-75 years behind ameriKa in many ways, often happily.
Obviously if you're wealthy none of this applies, but my friends and I are middle class, as I would guess a majority of folk in this forum are.
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802mark
From: Panama
2/15/2013 11:40 EST
Goods that are shipped here are junk at best. they are cheapy made, even high priced high end things I have found to be less then the same model in the u.s. many poor people here so they make things cheaper for a cheaper price. I bought the front load G.E. washer and dryer model and both were broken within a years time, the dryer went out after two cycles. took them 7 months to order the parts to fix it, I was the one who had to load it and unload it to get it down to them and back. once I got it back it worked for about a month and went out again. I threw it outside. when the washer went out I had a guy come over and rip out of the fancy bells and computer and hard wire it which seems to work.
light blubs down here won't last long either. most all goods here are not made to last.
I have lost two computers, a cd player, the main radio, a printer and a big screen tv due to under current. now people say you should have had all that on a surge protector dummy... well I did, what most people don't understand is that a surge protector will only work if the power is over 120v. that it stops. it will not stop 40v coming in and that under current is what kills your stuff.
ceiling fans, I have seen tons of them with cheap blades which the weather makes them bend and then the whole fan is junk.
that list goes on and on. so any goods you bring from the states will be better.
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glennbaxley
2/15/2013 13:16 EST
We will be taking a little amount of personal belongings. Does anyone know about shipping by container? I.E. sizes cost time till arrival? Also depending on size we will be willing to share a container and costs.
Glenn
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lapapuja
2/15/2013 14:29 EST
It depends on where you shipping from. From Miami is not so bad, Idaho would be much more...
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NWsteph
2/15/2013 20:02 EST
We had a few estimates for about 8k. We live in a one bedroom condo and one small storage unit. They said a three bedroom would cost the same because they put it one container. I"m sure there are other options. It will take from 2 to 6 weeks also.
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johnny1950
2/15/2013 21:29 EST
We also checked in to shipping. We found a 20 foot container was about $8000.00 and a forty foot container was about $10,000.00 from Florida. That was door to door. The company was North American out of Daytona. Checked a few others and they were similar.
Johnny1950
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panamajames
2/16/2013 00:26 EST
That's correct. For an extra $2000 you can bring twice as much stuff. I consider my bed, which I hope I never have to part with, with an original cost of $4000, to be worth the trip, as well as everything else I brought, and I am only sad for the things that I left behind. You can replace many things here. I was very sad to sell my Toyota Truck, but when I came here, I bought a newer Toyota Truck. There is a fellow right now who is selling a fabulous pillow top Sealy King Size bed and box spring twins, because he is moving back to Florida after 5 years here in Panama, so I could have replaced my bed, but you don't know those things, or when they will happen. It's a decision. You don't want to sleep on an air mattress for 3 years waiting for the right stuff to come up for sale. If you can sell your stuff at a good price, good for you. If not, find a good reputable mover and bring it. There are budget movers out there. Don't use them. They have no connections here and you can have problems getting your stuff shipped and delivered. Professional moving companies only. If you are going to spend that kind of money moving your stuff, do your homework and don't go cheap. Do some Google searches. Bring us your bad movers and post their information. Bring us your good movers and post their information. By the way, the stuff is staying here forever. If I move back, I can sell it all here for a much better price than I could have sold it for in North America. There is an over abundance of stuff in North America. There is a shortage of good stuff here in Panama.
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JohnF13
2/16/2013 05:28 EST
Probably just me and likely comparing apples to oranges, but when I was bringing stuff in from India and China the cost for a 20 foot container with around 36,000 lbs of stuff (I was shipping heavy metal) was around $3,000 to the Port of Montreal, Canada. Another $1000 for land transport to my yard - so I find those estimates of $8000 VERY high.
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jonoyakker
2/16/2013 06:23 EST
A couple points to consider that weren't mentioned here...
*Your Gringo furniture may not be happy with conditions in the tropics
*Locally built furniture can be really beautiful, durable, and affordable.
*This is the perfect time and excuse to rid yourself of all the crap. Everytime I move, I downsize-less is more! I know this goes against the gringo mentality... Figure what's really, really important and bring that.
*If in doubt whether to bring something or buy in Panama, post your question here. The answer varies by cost, size and weight, etc
*Yes-due to the permanent US recession, it's harder to sell your stuff. We donated a bunch of stuff to Goodwill and got a hefty tax deduction (They let you fill out the value on the receipt)
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Tmaul
2/16/2013 06:34 EST
James,
We actually thought about selling everything but a few items we can't live without. Are you saying that we will not be able to find quality furnishings in Panama?
If a 4'x4'x4' is $600.00 to ship, I can't imagine what a 40' container would run.
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Tmaul
2/16/2013 06:55 EST
James,
Good advise. I like the idea of bringing your bad and good shippers and posting their information here.
Based on what I'm hearing, it may even be worth purchasing new appliances prior to moving and well worth the upgrade to a 40' container.
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Tmaul
2/16/2013 06:59 EST
Speaking of appliances, would one bring an electric or gas (propane) dryer. The last thing I want to do is pay to ship something that I or anyone else won't be able to use.
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Tmaul
2/16/2013 07:06 EST
This make sense in regard to wood furnishings, but what about appliances? Can you get the same quality?
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lapapuja
2/16/2013 07:26 EST
What you will have to do is contact a shipper in Panama. They can ask you all the right questions. There are too many variables and everyone's situation calls for a different solution. No matter how much weight you put into a 40 foot container it will be the same cost to bring to Panama. Some things you may not be able to bring. What is your residency status? Where in Panama will the container go? etc, etc, etc......
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lapapuja
2/16/2013 08:08 EST
If you plan on bringing your container in duty free based on a residency status then it would apply to used items only.
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panamajames
2/16/2013 09:33 EST
Let me just jump in here with my experiences. From the Pacific Northwest, not on the coast, but 4 or 5 hours inland, I shipped a 20 foot container for $12,000 and could have shipped a 40 foot for $14,000. There was a shipping cost by land to the coast via a transport truck, and then container by ship to Panama.
I ordered door to door service which included free insurance. They wrap everything and pack it in your driveway. They take the tables apart, and fill up dresser drawers with things, and pack it tight.
There can be furniture problems in the tropics with some antiques. On the beaches, the laquers and finishes will sometimes melt and drip off. The wood can move around a bit and drawers can be difficult to open in high humidity. It settles down eventually.
In Boquete with an average temperate of 70, some of the drawers of cupboards would not open well any more, so I sanded and did some sliders, and it's fine now.
Tax deductions from Good Will is a good idea for the remainder of the things that you can't or don't want to take.
Electric appliances cost more to operate in Panama. Gas is the choice of most people. Forget the fancy electronic appliances as the power is so bad here with brown outs and drop outs, that you will burn out the fancy electronics in no time. Sell those in North America. Basic electric appliances only. I brought an Electric 220 dryer because it was a Maytag from the dependability series 25 to 30 years ago. Still works like it was brand new. There is no natural gas, it is all Propane and the little canisters cost $6 and last for more than 3 months under normal use for stoves. You may have to change the fittings to fit the tanks. Easy to do here. I did one for my barbecue and it was a matter of cutting the plastic hose and attaching the new fitting with a plastic hose joiner and a clamp.
If you bring anything new in your container, rough it up so it looks like it's a year old. Use it before you come here. And take off the price tags. A lady friend of mine moved to El Valle with her container, and put her brand new huge Plasma TV at the very end of her container, thinking that no one would ever go back there. There was a problem with her container, not being sea-worthy, and they had to repack it in another container. Her Big Screen TV ended up being first for the customs agents to look at, as it ended up in the front now. It was in the original packaging and the price tags were on it. She had to pay duty, then they went to town in her container and emptied the whole thing, and found more new things with price tags on them.
You will be able to purchase quality furnishings in Panama. But you will pay high prices for these imports until you find the local guys who do good work, and there are a lot of them, they are all just very busy and don't advertise. You learn about them through the locals. It will take you a long time to find your list of good people, who will include plumbers, carpenters, electricians, house builders, tilers, roofers, car repair guys, computer guys and girls, electronics people, gardeners, maids, lawyers, accountants and other professional people. Think how long it has taken you to find all those people who are currently in your life. You are doing it all over again. So much fun.
If you are into your residency situation, then you can ship used items duty free, up to a specific amount.....Have fun people........I did.
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karlamaree
2/16/2013 11:12 EST
Great advice!!!! Fabulous idea of posting the good and bad movers. Also a place for good and bad builders, car repair, etc. would be handy for the communities. There is no Better Business Bureau in Panama (as far as i have been able to find).
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lapapuja
2/16/2013 12:03 EST
I used Albert M. White in Panama City. The only problem was that he is so busy that it can be difficult to reach him at times. You'll have to do a search to get the contact info. Been too many years and I no longer have it.
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Richardwhiteman
2/16/2013 22:01 EST
Any one have experience shipping tools, materials to build a home and appliances? Would there be duty on all of the above? What are the rules for bringing a used vehicle?
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jonoyakker
2/17/2013 04:41 EST
BBB is a scam anyway. Best way to find competent places is to post on web forums such as this.
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jonoyakker
2/17/2013 04:42 EST
I brought my tools down in a plastic tub on the plane. Guy just asked what they were...
Houses here are all cement and steel-you aren't going to ship those...
Cars aren't worth bringing down unless you have something special. Shipping and duty will choke you.
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eelydnew1
2/17/2013 09:58 EST
glennbaxley when and where are you shipping from? We want to ship May/June from Tampa Fl and would also like to share a container.
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karlamaree
2/17/2013 10:49 EST
I completely agree about the BBB, but do miss a trustworthy place to get opinions about service providers. Maybe in 30 years or so...
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jonoyakker
2/17/2013 14:50 EST
You need to know that you must exercise caution about posting negative info in Panama. There is no right to free speech-you could be sued. (Actually I am being sued in the States for a negative online review I wrote!)
So I think the best thing when requesting feedback on an enterprise, is to invite negative comments to be delivered through personal email. For positive feedback, public posts are fine of course.
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jonoyakker
2/17/2013 14:50 EST
You need to know that you must exercise caution about posting negative info in Panama. There is no right to free speech-you could be sued. (Actually I am being sued in the States for a negative online review I wrote!)
So I think the best thing when requesting feedback on an enterprise, is to invite negative comments to be delivered through personal email. For positive feedback, public posts are fine of course.
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cquilez
2/17/2013 15:04 EST
hummmm... but if everyone only posts positive reviews, us out of the country folk won't know where the pitfalls are. but point well taken
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802mark
From: Panama
2/17/2013 17:46 EST
well we can get close to saying it but I can't just up and say joe's casa is the worse place you can stay at. that opens me up to a lawsuit.
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wencar
3/3/2016 10:56 EST
Hi is a possible to have the email for your contact to find out about moving cost?
Thanks, have a great day
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Jonahbear
2/28/2017 08:49 EST
We are moving to Panama and I want to bring my family heirloom wood furniture about 9-10 pcs, I sold all my other furniture, but would love to keep these as they mean alot to me. I read you cannot bring wood furniture, is this true? I really hope not.
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golric
2/28/2017 10:00 EST
@jonahbear I have wood furniture that I shipped to Panama (3 years ago) and happy I brought all my goodies with me. Yes you can find some items in Panama but they are either not the quality or super expensive or if you live in the city just thinking about fighting with the traffic to go from one store to the other is not my cup of tea.
They will do pest control and fumigate when shipment is inspected @ customs.
Ask your moving company make sure that company handling your shipment in Panama is a trusted one.
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SAY
2/28/2017 12:12 EST
I shipped a 40 foot container of household goods and my car from Pennsylvania to Balboa port. From my door to the port, the cost was $3100.00 I'm glad I brought everything I did; I wish I had brought more. I have a pensionado visa, so I did not pay duties on household goods. I opted to pay duty on my car, so I could get it faster; it only cost $200.00 more than the exoneration process. My container with car cleared customs in 2 days
And this was in October, so it is recent information
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Jonahbear
2/28/2017 13:06 EST
What is "exoneration" charge? Did you ship wooden furniture? Did you ship any floor tools like a tables or drill press?
Thank you for the updated info!
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StanleySankey
2/28/2017 13:50 EST
@SAY
Can you please provide the details on whom you used as the shipping company and customs brokers.
Thanks
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SAY
2/28/2017 14:14 EST
Jonahbear
Yes, I shipped wood furniture. Any of those shipping websites that say you can't ship wood furniture to Panama, should be crossed off your list immediately. They don't know what they are doing. You will have to give your customs agent a list of your wood items and he/ she draws up the paperwork for the customs. It's that simple.
Yes, bring your tools - all of them. Bring your wheelbarrow, your hedge clippers, rakes,your ladders - all of them. You will find that not many Panamanian workers have tools and ladders. They simply can't afford them. And in a lot of cases, they don't have the vehicles to transport them. It's amazing to me all the people and tools that they can fit on their bicycles.
They will come and do the work for you at an inexpensive rate, but chances are you will have to provide the tools. In fact, that would be a good business here - tool rental for all the expats that didn't bring tools and need something for a few hours.
There are several things that make up the exoneration costs. Remember, even if you use your pensionado to import a car, you will still have to pay the taxes on the car. The other charges will include a lawyer to do 1/2 of the paperwork and a custom agent to do the other 1/2. The charge for the exoneration will be separate from the charge of clearing customs. Then there is the daily storage fee that you will have to pay while this paperwork is being done. Most of the people I spoke with said that it took about 3 weeks to get their car through customs using the exoneration process.
The exact charge will depend on the lawyer's and agent's fees and storage fees and whatever Panama fees there are. And then, of course, your taxes.
How close the difference in charges will be between exoneration or just paying duty will depend on the value of your vehicle. Ask your custom's agent for the estimation.
My customs agent was Heidi Kam, and she had the estimation within $5.00 of the final fee.
She can be reached at 507-236-0018 or by email at hkam@gakam.com. We corresponded only by email. She's very efficient. She helped me so much that I can't even put it into words.
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SAY
2/28/2017 14:22 EST
Stanley,
I used IContainers. They are a freight forwarding company from Spain. They have a Miami office. They do not do the packing. They arrange the trucking company and the shipping company and the paperwork and do all the stuff of which we know nothing. A 20 foot container was $2700. When I decided to pack the car in the container, I upgraded to a 40 foot, which cost $400.00 more
The cost will vary from which port you need to ship and the distance of your house from the port.
You can reach them at 305-964-8731. Of course, fuel prices have risen since I shipped. So that will probably increase the cost. IContainers is a no-frill company. They just get the work done.
I gave the information about my customs agent on my previous post to Jonahbear
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Jonahbear
2/28/2017 14:58 EST
You are a welcome fount of knowledge! Thanks so much. The company we purchased our container from wants a thousand dollars to off load it from the truck at our storage units (so we can pack it) and another thousand to reload it on the truck to take it to the RR. Does this match your experience?
Also, my previous message should have said "tablesaw" and drill press. I have a complete woodworking shop that will just about fill a 40' container and I've heard that anything with a motor or wheels is taxed or dutied, or somehow charged extra - any ideas on that?
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SAY
2/28/2017 15:29 EST
If any of you decide to use IContainers, make sure you tell them that you want express release to your customs agent
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SAY
2/28/2017 15:54 EST
I didn't purchase a container. The shipping company sent a truck to my house with the container on the back. We had 2 hours to load, and the truck driver waited in his truck until we finished, and he sealed the back and took off Philly
I didn't have anyone to help load the container, so I hired a local moving company, They were so fast that my household goods were in the container within 1/2 hour. It took a little longer to load the car and secure it.
I lived within 2 hours of a port, so that might be making the difference. If you are far inland, they make different arrangements
When you ship a container, you have to complete a packing list, which the custom agents use to determine duties,. That packing list needs to be in English and in Spanish. Make sure you identify any used items as USED in your item description.
You would need to ask Heidy your questions about duty charges. Mine stuff was all used, and I came on a pensionado. The only thing I had on wheels was a little plastic drawer set.
Once I got everything packed and finished the horrendous yard sales, the rest was easy
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ArkansasGirl
3/29/2017 14:35 EST
If I'm moving to Boquete, which port do you have your belongings shipped to in Panama? I noticed there are a few choices.
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stgibson
3/31/2017 18:44 EST
We can help with household moving and do door to door service from the US, Canada and Europe. We handle all ground freight, ocean freight, documentation and customs clearance.
G&B Import/Export, S.A.
sg.thwoods@gmail.com
507-6900-0764 (Panama)
843-603-1020 (USA)
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