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Pensionado or Solvencia Económica Propia

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soarer
  1/26/2015 12:49 EST

Hi all

I'm planning to retire in approx. 3 years from now and am currently researching my options, Panama being one of them.

I've read a lot about the various options to obtain residency, but there's a lot of conflicting information out there, so I though maybe somebody could help me to clarify a couple of things.

As I'm 42 now, I won't be receiving a state / corporate pension by the time I plan to retire. Instead, I'll have sufficient funds set aside to not having to work anymore. However, it is not very clear to me for which of the residency options I would qualify given my situation:

Pensionado: Most websites say I would have to prove a state / corporate pension of at least USD1000 per month. As I mentioned, this is not possible for me (not until I'm 63). Would it be possible to invest in a trust or something similar, obtain a confirmation of the monthly payments I get out of it and use this to get pensionado status? If yes, for how many years would I have to prove the monthly income?

Solvencia Económica Propia: For this, it seems I'd have to invest a certain amount in a Certificate of Deposit and / or real estate in Panama. However, the amounts and allocation of the assets vary greatly depending on which website I read. One says a total of USD200'000, with a max. of 80'000 in real estate. Another website says it's 300'000, but that it doesn't matter how much of it is invested in a CD and how much in real estate. Does anyone have any information about this?

Also, am I right in assuming that under the Solvencia Económica Propia program, the benefits of the pensionado program (e.g. duty free import of household items) would not apply?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Diego

ranadelnorte
  1/26/2015 18:20 EST

Congratulations on having done your research on various visa options. At this point it seems to me that you need to contact a Panamanian immigration lawyer. The initial consultation is free.

Here is my feedback on your questions. The $1,000 monthly income for pensionado status must be FOR LIFE. It is a bit more difficult to obtain that visa with an annuity or trust rather than with a government pension. The Panamnians really look into the solvency of the issuing annuity company, and many annuity companies don't agree to produce the kind of documentation required. The pensionado visa is the only one that allows duty-free import of $10,000 worth of used personal goods.

At your age you might want to look into the Friendly Nations visa for which the
financial requirements are much lower than for the Economic Sovency visa.

Good luck!

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BoqueteGirl
  1/27/2015 06:34 EST

I would also recommend the Friendly Nations visa. But please remember,,,,what your Panama Attorney tells you today, may not be in 3 years. Things change ALL the time here. If you make a trip down here and have an extended vacation to see if Panama is for you, apply then. Your Attorney can advise you on everything that is available to you now before your retirement.

If you have stuff you want to bring into Panama by container, share a container with someone who has a Pensionado and bringing stuff in. Most ship a 20 ft container, but share the cost and bump up to a 40 ft container. We shipped a 40 ft when we came and had plenty of room to share with someone. We only used a little over 1/2 of the container, which left about 10 feet for someone else.

soarer
  1/27/2015 11:43 EST

Wow, great advise, thank you very much. Strange that this friendly nations visa hasn't come up in my research. I will have to look into that further, sounds like I'd have to setup a corporation.

Also good idea about sharing a container, although it propably isn't for me. Coming from Switzerland, I guess my chances of finding a pensionado expat are rather slim.

And I agree, I might have reached a point where I need to consult a lawyer. Any recommendations for one that could cover visa, incorporation and real estate (I would be interested to know if there's any legal way to reduce the <2.1% property tax once the tax excemption - if any - runs out). I've read the name PTY a couple of times on this board ...

Again, thanks very much for your help. I shall buy you all a beer when I settle in Panama in 3 years ;-)

ranadelnorte
  1/27/2015 14:23 EST

Good news! Swiss citizens are eligible for the Friendly Nations visa, which is a fairly new visa option. Yes, you'd have to set up a corporation.

PTY is an abbreviation for Panama City, after the 3 letter code for the international airport here - like CDG for Paris Charles DeGaulle or YUL for Montreal Pierre Trudeau airport. It is just faster than writing out Panama City. Some people abbreviate to PC.

If you use the search function on this forum you'll find the names of many lawyers who can handle visa and real estate processes. Suggest you look at their websites, contact many of them by email and see who you think answers in a way that makes you feel most comfortable. Ask for references once you've made a choice, and be aware that some friendly expats charge a commission for lawyer recommendations, and some lawyers pay finder fees to those who recommend clients. I have no problem with these practices, unless the fees are charged without the client being fully aware.

Appreciate your offer of a beer.

soarer
  1/27/2015 23:31 EST

I was actually aware of the airport code. What I meant to say was PTYLawyers. Anyway, good advise again on contacting multiple lawyers and see what they have to say.

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volcan357
  1/28/2015 19:24 EST

I do not have the latest information however I obtained my residency via the Solvencia Economica program. At the time it was $100,000 but it has gone up. This program allows you to later apply for citizenship (after 5 years of residency). I actually did apply for citizenship and I am now a Panamanian citizen. If I had entered under the Pensionado program I wouldn't have been eligible. Be careful of what lawyer you end up using. Not all of them are honest and some will intentionally draw the process out to get more fees from you. You want a lawyer who is not only honest but one who can move the process along in a timely manner.

atlantafireman
  1/29/2015 08:42 EST

"Not all of them are honest and some will intentionally draw the process out to get more fees from you. You want a lawyer who is not only honest but one who can move the process along in a timely manner." There is the rub. I had hoped to leave U.S. attorney practices in the U.S. It is my experience that attorneys are the same throughout the world. Just swell. I have contacted three recommended attorney offices regarding a residency Visa. I qualify for a Pension Visa, but I prefer residency. Of the three offices contacted, ONE returned me email: cost of Residency Visa started with a $7000 RETAINER. The last time I was in Panama, I could buy a cold beer in the grocery store, for 35 cents, drink it as I shopped, and then pay for it when I bought my groceries. Admittedly, this was not in Panama City. 35 cents for a beer: $7000 retainer for an attorney. So far, I have been unimpressed with the limited attorneys I have contacted. I do want to find a reasonable attorney to apply for residency later this year.

volcan357
  1/29/2015 20:22 EST

Seven thousand dollars is way out of line. The bad thing about overcharging people for residency is that we need retirees to come to Panama. We need to encourage people and not discourage people to come here. Frankly we need the business. All the good attorneys that I know only speak Spanish except for one I know in David, Chiriqui. He received his law degree from the University of Louisiana. His name is Dr. Angulo. He is honest and I seriously doubt if he would charge anything near $7000. He helped me a lot during the first years I was here. I haven't used him in a long time but I can try and get some contact information if you wish. There is an immigration office in David and since David is smaller it might be easier to get it done in David. Panama City is pretty hectic. If you plan on renting a car it is much easier to drive in the David area. You can fly to David and rent a car at the airport. The immigration office in David is at the Chiriqui Mall where it is very easy to park. That is not the case at the Panama City immigration office. Hope this helps.

cheryl4209
  2/1/2015 17:59 EST

Rainelda Mata-Kelly, RMK lawfirm in Panama City have taken care of my Pensionado Visa and anything else Panama related for me and many of the reputable real estate firms and property managers I have met. She is US trained, fluent in English, as is her staff. Always a pleasure to do business there. 2K for Visa and Multiple Entry Permit. Check out her website.

panamajames
  2/2/2015 07:40 EST

She is the legal representative for International Living, so that says a world about her.........

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daamonturne
  2/2/2015 15:19 EST

My wife and I used Mayra Lamboglia or something like that in Panama City. She got us a friendly nation visa, bank account, corporation, drivers license, multi exit visa for $1600 last year (1/14). Her price have gone up I have heard, but she was fast (5 days) and complete. We have recommended her and to several others and they all like her.

Look her up on google she com

daamonturne
  2/2/2015 15:19 EST

My wife and I used Mayra Lamboglia or something like that in Panama City. She got us a friendly nation visa, bank account, corporation, drivers license, multi exit visa for $1600 last year (1/14). Her price have gone up I have heard, but she was fast (5 days) and complete. We have recommended her and to several others and they all like her.

Look her up on google she com

atlantafireman
  2/7/2015 21:55 EST

Thank you all very much for the information and the leads. I have this page bookmarked for future reference as well as bringing it back to active in several months if needed. $1500-$2000 is acceptable. $7000 was right out. All I wish to do is assimilate into Panama.

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