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buying a used car from a dealer

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oscar76
  10/22/2016 03:36 EST

hello folks!
i have a few questions regarding buying a used car from a professional car dealer. and, since things work a little different here in germany, i better ask people that know about it. :-)
lets say i go to a dealer and see a used car that i like. price tag says 10000,-. now my questions:
1. is it normally possible to make a test drive?
2. is there any tax or other things added to the price, or is the 10000,- the final price?
(i know for new cars the vat is added, bit for used ones also?)
3. in germany, it is normal to get a discount from 10 or 20%, or even more, when you pay cash...what about panama?
4. do i have a warranty and if i do, do you have any experiences with that?
5. when and how do i pay? do i pay when i take the car, or when i make the contract? and do i need to go to the atm and get the money or can i pay with credit cards?
6. how long does it take for the dealer to make the car ready for me? i mean, lets say today i go there, like it, want it and buy it...when can i pick it up?
thanks a lot!

BoqueteGirl
  10/22/2016 10:47 EST

We purchased a used Pathfinder for $11K. wrote a check. Drove off lot. Your warranties vary on age of car. The dealer we used was a graduate of Notre Dame in the U.S. he has 3 dealerships in PC. Yes you will pay about 6% sales tax. (I think this is what we paid. it's been a long time.) You will have to have insurance on car before you drive off lot. The dealership will recommend someone. We were at the mercy of the dealership on insurance, but when we purchased it and got to Boquete and started researching insurance, we found the prices to be on par with what the dealership offered. So kept it until renewal time, then went with a local agent in Boquete. YES you will be able to test drive. You really don't want to walk around with that kind of cash in Panama. Please don't. He will work with you. You may go to the bank and get a certified check if you have a Panamanian bank account. You can only get $500. a day in cash machines here. Negotiated discounts can happen with the dealer. But don't expect too much of discount. Hope this helps just a little...

email: [email protected]
http://www.automarketpanama.com

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Jazzmann
  10/22/2016 11:10 EST

I cannot speak for Panama City but I was shopping with friends for a used car as recently as yesterday at a number of the dealers (6) in Chitré. Some dealers have a handful of late model used cars, others have none at all. My friends found one that happened to be at the dealership and was said to be owned by a customer so the sales person represented it to my friends. 1.) They did get to test drive it. 2.) Tax is paid only on a new vehicle so it is taxed ONLY once regardless of how many times it may subsequently sold. (I purchased a new truck and had the import tax waived because I was a Jubilado. The dealer handled the paperwork but it did take a few weeks) 3.) My friends successfully negotiated a discount from the original asking price. 4.) It is alleged that the remaining portion original warranty applies – “Welcome to Fantasy Island”. (In My experience the shade tree mechanics are mostly capable and the prices are very low – I said MOSTLY!!!) 5.) Pay in full at delivery but make sure that you get all the paperwork completed with the owner (not always the dealer – sometimes they just “broker” the transaction). You go to Banco National to pay the $20.00 and get a “pink slip” to take to the Alcaldia to transfer the plate to you (like England, the plate follows the vehicle) Then go to ATTT to transfer the title to you. The dealer may handle this, however, be sure that it is done. 6.) If the vehicle is ready, to your satisfaction, it is a question of how long the above paperwork takes. You will need to carry in the vehicle: a copy of the title, a copy of the insurance policy (they do not have insurance cards like the US), a copy of the transportation regulations book, a blank accident form (

Jazzmann
  10/22/2016 11:13 EST

The last part of my message did not get posted: ...a blank accident form (both available at the grocery store here in Las Tablas; usually), a fire extinguisher and reflective triangle.

joeslinky
  10/22/2016 11:23 EST

I am a used car dealer in the US. First of all most dealers are crooks! They are sometimes turned in that direction by the actions of the customers. I try and be honest with the customer, maybe that's why I'm not filthy rich.

When buying a car I'm sure the process is universal. Here you as a customer should demand. 1. Don't buy the car unless you can drive it before negotiations begin, I also suggest you take someone who knows how to check out a car if you are not mechanically inclined. All cars even new ones need something done to them. A transmission can cost $1,500 so be careful. 2. Payment: Before payment ask to see the title and check the VIN number matches the one on the car. Also verify the dealer is licensed. The payment should be at delivery of the car. Also the car may have taxes and license fees have to be paid at some point ask them who goes to the DMV, if it's you the payment for titling will have to be at the DMV by you. Finally, Dealers usually have a "processing fee", this is an additional profit to them, my advice is NOT to pay it. 3. Here in the USA most states allow to sell the car as-is so don't expect a warranty so please read #1 again. Recondition is on you, so be careful.

Verbal contracts are crap so get it in writing with signatures by both of you.

GOOD LUCK!

RICOBREEZE802MARK
  10/22/2016 11:43 EST

All great questions, but due to the fact that one car lot will run it's biz one way and the next another, I would say all the questions you have you need to be asking the dealer that you plan on buying from. Over all tho,

1. test drive? sure
2 tax 7 percent, because you are buying a used car from a car company, if you bought it from a single person you wouldn't pay that.
3. paying cash or a bank loan either way the dealership will get payment in full and has no need to reduce the price based on you paying cash. You might can haggle on the asking price. I tried that when I have bought new cars but they are not like the states, maybe times I have tried and they say that's the price take it or leave it.

4.warranty should be given but all tend to have time limits and what they will or will not cover. even new cars, like one of mine I didn't take it back to them for the three month oil change, I had it done some other place, that one act cancelled my warranty.
5. Best way to pay is have your bank wire the funds into theirs, or go to your bank with them and withdraw cash and hand it to them. I wouldn't think a used car lot would be able to take a c.card for 10k. they have to pay fees to the c.c. company as well.
6. as soon as you hand over the money for the car, you and that dealer then has to go to the office where that auto was first tagged, and do the transfer paperwork there. There are papers that they will have to sign over as well as their ID, which will have to also be stamped, which means going to yet another place for that stamp. they also have to do a back ground check to make sure the car doesn't have any pass due tickets or fines on that tag, if so the dealer would have to pay them first before the car can be put into your name. also remember that the tag that is on that car, stays with that car for it's entire life, if you sold it two years later, that tag goes with it, to the new owner. also keep in mind, that if that car is tagged in the city and say you have moved to the other side of the country, you will still be required to go back to the city and get your new tags, until you fill out the forms and pay the fees they ask of you to get that tag transfer to your local city. that must be done at the time you renew the tag for the next year. it use to be a copy of your ID. a copy of a power bill showing where you live, a letter from the local judge stating they know you and you live their, and 50.00. plus copies of all the cars paperwork. after you filed all that then the next year you should be able to pick up your new tag in your home town. one thing I learned a long time ago about that, panama city has millions of people and cars, and each month when your tags are due that place is overflowing with people trying to get the new tags, but a smaller city outside of panama city will not have near the numbers of people. I have walked in to pick up mine and was 2nd in line, in the city I was all the way out the door.

also know that many places offer a service to you to deal with all of that for you. I have four cars, so I have my guy who owns a shop take care of everything for me, he even has ins. he does the revisado 20.00 and goes to get the tags for 35.00, well worth it to me to not have to spend 4 days of my life standing in a line someplace.

also understand that we have toll roads so look to see if the car you are buying has the sticker on the front windshield, if so ask for the pay tab, it's a little card that you have to have to go to rey's and pay whatever amount in tolls and they scan that tab, that way you pass the toll and it takes the money right off, and it will show you the bal of what is on it. without that tab, you will have to take the old sticker off and go do all the paperwork to get a new one placed on it.

on buying your used car, take a hard look at everything, many cars here in panama have been wrecked so make sure to ask if it has ever been wrecked, and make sure you look at the paint very closely, I would pull the oil stick and to look and feel the oil, what you want to do is take your thumb and fore finger slide it down the stick getting the oil on those fingers and then pressing those fingers together really hard then slowly lift them apart, what you are looking for is, if it is stringy, if it is that's a old car lot trick to quiet a knocking lifter as well as keeping a car from smoking and burning oil, it is a additive they add to help hide those facts, check the air filter next, then drive the car, letting go of the wheel and see if it pulls one way or the other, if so look at the tires to see if that side is worn more then the other.
I would even request the car be put on a lift so you can have your person and you get a good look under it.

People here don't do the up keep on their cars, oil changes many times don't get done near as much as the should be, many cars are packed with all their family and then drove up to see grandma's house which is on a bad dirt road, many times the car has been close to the beach or even drove on the beach and that salty air and water eats em.

friend of mine bought a used car from a lady, the oil was dirty, I warned him about it, he bought it anyway saying he would have the oil changed, well ok, but how long has that motor been running with that old dirty oil in it? 2nd I told him ok change the oil and then flush the motor out with engine flush run it for about three hours and then drain it all out and change the oil again, he changed it but didn't do the engine flush and drain like I said, and within a week of the oil change all that dirt blocked the oil pick up and fired the motor. he didn't want to spend a extra 150.00 to do what I said, so now he can spend 1,500.00 on fixing the old motor.

another thing, if you are not a car guy hire someone that is to go with you and to look for red flags, and if the dealer has any problem letting you do any of the things I have said, then he has something to hide and you would be wise to walk.

last piece of wisdom I would like to say to you,, first off I buy new only, that way I know the whole history of that car, but I understand many people can't do that. If I were you I would NOT buy a car from a used dealer, I would check places like craigslist and encuentra24.com and the news paper, what you are looking for is a expat that is moving back to the u.s. and has to sale everything, cars and all. many times expats take far better care of their cars then locals, 2nd they don't use their cars to haul 25 people up a mountain, 3rd, they are in a hurry and they have to sale that car before they fly back home, so you have huge Bargaining power on your side, and with cash in hand. I have seen cars go for thousands below fair market value, many are the same cars the dealer has bought and now are asking you for thousands over what he paid.

just a few things for you to think about. wishing you luck with it all.

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oscar76
  10/22/2016 12:55 EST

thanks a lot!!!!
well, the main reason for me to go to a dealer is that i want the whole deal getting done quickly and without me nerding to go here and there for insurance or whatever.
so, did i understand it right?
the dealer can and will do all of that paperstuff for me, if i want?
so i go there, choose the car, he gets all the paperstuff done (no down payment needed for that?) and i come back, pay and get the car?
how many days does it usually take until i can go with the car?

BoqueteGirl
  10/22/2016 18:40 EST

A "reputable" dealership will take care of ALL the paperwork. Our dealership did and sent us transfer paperwork and tile change to our address in Boquete. We received this in about 3 weeks. Then we went down upon renewal (one year later) and had all paperwork changed at renewal. Absolutely NO issues. We took the car right away. No hassles with a "reputable" dealer.

oscar76
  10/23/2016 02:44 EST

hm...the tax question is a little confusing, because some of you say you need to pay and others say no.
it is clear that from a private person i do not pay any tax. also it is clear that there is the tax for new cars.
but for a used one bought from a car dealer that has been owned by a private person before?
in germany it works like this:
when a business buys a car they get the vat back from the government and when they sell it later, they then pay the tax from the new sell price. that means, buying a used car from a business has vat.
but a private person does not get the tax back, so when reselling it, they do not need to pay anything to the government, so there is no tax.
and when a car dealer sells a car that has been owned by a private person, he pays tax on the difference between the buying and selling price. so yes, there is a tax but you as the customer do not see it.
i hope my english is good enough for you to understand what i mean.
in germany we don't care about the tax anyway because ALL prices here that you see ANYWHERE are inkluding tax. but in panama it is more like in the usa, price tags show net prices.

jonoyakker
  10/23/2016 03:02 EST

I didn't see this mentioned here but I have heard several times that if you buy a car from a retiree (who did not pay tax on the purchase) that you will have to pay it when you buy it.

RICOBREEZE802MARK
  10/23/2016 09:05 EST

well call the dealer you have picked and ask him if I buy a 10k car from you what if any tax do you add? 2nd point maybe a mixing up here, there is duty tax on a car that has been brought into panama and then there is taxes that a biz. must pay when they sale a used car. those are two issues. If you go out to eat today, look at your bill you will be charged a tax on that meal, because the place that sold it to you has to pay taxes on every meal that's the price of having a biz. If I went out and bought the food from a store and came home and cooked it and told you to come over for dinner, then I didn't pay any tax. duty tax is placed on every new and used car that is shipped into panama.

That is the reason that when you go to a new car lot they really don't have but about less then 8 cars on the lot, because the rest of his stock is sitting behind a fence in the free zone, until you pick one you want, then you buy it, which has that duty tax added to it, they take your money and pay that duty, which gets that car released from the free zone and they bring it to the dealership.

I would not trust any used car lot to take my money without me being there on the spot to oversee and sign all paperwork showing the car is now mine and then me taking the car that same day. no way, so again, if a car has been shipped in, duty has to be paid. then if it is resold, only a tax has to be paid. now jon. posted another issue, that is when panama allows a retired person to bring in a car duty free, which is one of the visa perks, but as jon stated, once that person sales that car the duty tax then must be paid.

that just keeps a retired person from shipping in many cars to resale without having to pay the duty, so they said if it's yours and you are driving it and not for resale it's free, but once u do resale it you pay the duty.

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expatdude
  11/10/2016 22:15 EST

I didn't pay taxes on the used car I bought, but then I bought it from an individual. Anyway I'm leaving the country soon, I might just sell it as well. Good luck with the dealer, it should be a quick one day process for you to drive off the lot.

SAY
  11/11/2016 09:01 EST

I know that people on the forum have talked about the VIN number, but there is another major issue: the engine number. I brought my car with me, and I started the registration in David. The first thing they check is the engine number. They take a picture of it and have the p0lice in Panama City verify that the car is not stolen. When that check comes back ok, the registration process can continue.

While I was waiting my turn for the officer to check my engine number, the family in front of me was encountering major problems. This Panamanian family had taken a bus from the Bocas to David to buy a used a car. It was a man, his wife, his children and his in-laws. They bought the car from a dealership one block from the police station. When the officer checked the car's engine number, he found two numbers missing. The officer got in touch with Panama City who told him to impound the car. The VIN number looked fine.

That family had to catch a cab to the bus station and take a bus back to the Bocas sans car until the Police could make a determination about the car's rightful ownership.

I don't know how you check the engine number when buying a used car from a dealership, but it would behoove you to find the process.

This just happened 2 weeks ago. I don't know if it has always been the procedure, but it is now

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