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Portugal Expat Forum

Just Saying No to Panama

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fourspells
3/19/2014 13:40 EST

I've officially crossed Panama off our list to relocate. Now I'm confused, trying to get a grasp on where to start taking the tour around the country of Portugal. I'm African American and wonder if there are areas I should avoid due to racial tensions, if there are any. We were sold on Malta but changed our minds because of it. From the pictures I've seen, Porto is beautiful. I liked Vilamaura as well. If it's possible, I'd like to settle within a twenty minutes drive to the beaches, and even closer to places to shop and eat out if/when we get stir crazy. Residential neighborhoods suit us best as well as quaint, charming settings near the city center if it's possible. Any suggestions anyone? Thanking you each sincerely for your help in advance.

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craigandmicki
3/20/2014 07:35 EST

Say Yes to Portugal! The Portuguese are known for their interest in and welcoming attitude towards all peoples; this is one place where discrimination is rarely seen and people will love you for your smile and interest in their country. The most expensive urban area is Lisbon up to Cascais; less expensive urban area is Porto. Better weather in the Lisbon/Cascais corridor yet both offer gorgeous beaches, in-town living with short walks to all services and restaurants, and great public transit. The quaint residential areas are all over the place, where you can live in a village and walk to the stores and cafes. You truly must come here to explore it for yourself. Most people spend a couple weeks or a month at a base location and then visit areas to get a sense for them. Now, as Panama was on our list also yet we just never made it there--Portugal was just too appealing--can you tell us why Panama is off the list for you?

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craigandmicki
3/20/2014 07:35 EST

Say Yes to Portugal! The Portuguese are known for their interest in and welcoming attitude towards all peoples; this is one place where discrimination is rarely seen and people will love you for your smile and interest in their country. The most expensive urban area is Lisbon up to Cascais; less expensive urban area is Porto. Better weather in the Lisbon/Cascais corridor yet both offer gorgeous beaches, in-town living with short walks to all services and restaurants, and great public transit. The quaint residential areas are all over the place, where you can live in a village and walk to the stores and cafes. You truly must come here to explore it for yourself. Most people spend a couple weeks or a month at a base location and then visit areas to get a sense for them. Now, as Panama was on our list also yet we just never made it there--Portugal was just too appealing--can you tell us why Panama is off the list for you?

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fourspells
3/20/2014 11:03 EST

Hi Craigandmicki! Thanks for your response. Living in Panama suddenly made me uneasy. In what I'd gathered from "boots on the ground" blogs, there was a sense of frustration from expats living in the country. Many experienced cool indifference from those in authority (police, etc.) toward crimes committed against them....it seems there's no where to turn. I also didn't want to settle for a world where I had to bribe officials in order to get things done. Add to that, Panama's economy is dollar based which makes me uncomfortable. The final straw was when one expat detailed in great length how to prepare for some kind of "shift" towards turmoil and unrest there. I realize that no nation is exempt from the possibility, but since he went there, I'm taking it he might know that something's up. If that's the case indeed, then a gated community would be a prime target, IMO. My husband's retired and we're not rich by any stretch. And even if we were, it's no excuse for someone to think they can take what's ours because "we got it like that". We also scratched Belize off the list. It's dollar based as well. Although it's beautiful, I'm not sure if we could've made a living there if it deemed necessary.

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craigandmicki
3/20/2014 11:11 EST

Thanks for the insights. I discovered that we aren't happy in a 'third world', dirt streets kind of place where the indigenous people are so very poor. Here, people are so happy, helpful, easy going. Teens get up to give you a seat on the bus; everyone helps the elderly, from carrying their packages to helping them on and off the trains. You are welcomed immediately by the community. You have much to explore here, because Setubal and Seisimbra are also great sea-front, reasonbly priced choices for you. And Portugal is the one country where the poor European economy did NOT result in violent protests, as happened in Greece, Spain and Italy. Good Luck!

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LovetheBeach
3/27/2014 00:54 EST

craigandmicki, do you mind telling me what part of Portugal do you call home? I've never been to Portugal, but it is on my list of places that sound very interesting. Also, do you know much about Spain? How is Portugal different from Spain? Other than the obvious things like language. One of the Spanish cultural things I don't think I could ever get used to is the very late dinner times and very late nights. I'm usually in bed by 10:00, maybe 11:00 at the latest. Do the Portuguese have similar habits? Thank you!

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craigandmicki
3/27/2014 07:25 EST

We live in Cascais, on the Atlantic, 30 km west of Lisbon. As with any European country, meal times here differ from those in the US--but we've all happily adjusted. Lunch hour ranges from 1 to 2:30; tea is taken about 4 or 5 pm and dinner ranges from 8 to 10 pm...so it's a bit earlier than the Spain dinner hour. There are significant cultural differences as Portugal is highly tolerant of others...other religions, colors, nationalities....and is a much safer, friendlier place. Respect for elderly and children is high and visible everywhere. You'll find a number of articles and tips on this Expat Exchange that capture these examples in greater detail, so enjoy your research.

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bebeshor
3/27/2014 09:49 EST

Hello,
regarding differences between Portugal and Spain - here are my two cents. I do not think that Spanish people are less friendly than the Portuguese, but they are definitely more limited in English. The level of English in Spain is quite low (even for people who claim to speak it). Among Southern Europe, Portugal is the best in this aspect. Further, Portugal is cheaper. Healthcare is probably better in Spain. Many private insurers offer health insurance that covers providers in Spain as well. Spaniards have better sense of humor; Portuguese tend to be more on the dramatic side. Overall, Portugal has much stronger feminine energy compared to Spain.
I am not retired; moved to Portugal 5 years ago and my husband and I do not regret it despite the substantially lower income we live on here.

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LovetheBeach
3/27/2014 22:18 EST

Thank you, CraigandMickie for that great bit of information! Every little bit helps when one is doing one's research.

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LovetheBeach
3/27/2014 22:34 EST

Thank you, bebeshor, for your contribution to my inquiry. Quite a few years ago, I knew slightly a Portuguese family who immigrated to the U.S. They were extremely welcoming and friendly, and I think I understand what you mean by "feminine energy". Those ladies had everything well in hand! Mama was very highly respected and deferred to. I really want to be near the sea, and from my limited research, it looks like Portugal wins where budget is considered. I know that South America is less expensive, and I will probably spend some time there, but I've had my heart set on living in Europe for at least a few years ever since I was a kid. Are there many English speaking expats outside of Lisbon and Cascais? Is there good public transportation outside of the big cities? I really would like to live without the expense and upkeep of an automobile. Thanks again for your help!

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PrometeyBezkrilov
5/15/2014 19:54 EST

@fourspells
I don't think Belize is dollar based. "I realize that no nation is exempt from the possibility, but since he went there, I'm taking it he might know that something's up."
Hate to disappoint you, but something is up even in Europe and more so in the States. http://www.sprottmoney.com/news/ask-the-expert-jim-willie-may-2014

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fourspells
5/17/2014 16:39 EST

@prometeyBezkrilov. I know you're right...."more so in the states". For us it's just a matter of where to go, even while knowing anywhere we go won't be good for long. Belize, if I'm understanding correctly, chugs along on tourism for the most part. And there was a comment I noted from someone in Panama who seemed to think something was up down there as well. In the end, I'm convinced there won't be too many places financially stable in the world once it all hits the fan.

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fourspells
5/17/2014 17:08 EST

Well....we are one day back from visiting Portugal for two weeks. And I must say that my husband and I were NOT disappointed!! We spent a few days in Porto, walked its cobbled, hilly streets and spent an afternoon among the folks down at the river. We ate dinner there. We took a day a took a drove through Gaia across the river and visited its beaches. Gaia and its surrounding area was not one of our favorite places. We liked it better in Porto. While in Porto we used the metro and rode the cable cars. Next, we did Lisbon a few days and did grocery shopping and visited the malls. I didn't think I would be impressed with Cascais because as you said, it's a more expensive city. HOWEVER... we found the place breathtaking and fell in love with it!!! By far, Cascais was our favorite town. It appears the best of all worlds in Portugal. We also drove through Sintra and I loved it there as well. But I will never get used to my hubby driving along mountains curvy roads. He looks around too much and he scared me lifeless. So Sintra is out! We ended our stay in Portimao in the Algarve for a little R&R. We were told it's touristy and it was...a lot of British vacation there. Our hotel was excellent, clean and modern and also beachfront. The people were helpful, easy going and kind. One thing, I wasn't all that impressed with most foods we ate up and down the cost. But perhaps, we kept choosing poorly We kept wondering if we just weren't going to the right places. Even that is by no means a deal breaker for the country. I found the supermarkets Jumbo, Continente and Pingo Doce carried most the things I need to make my own delicious meals. Admittedly, the first thing I did at the airport coming home was grab a bag of Cheetos and rip into it with gusto. I missed the salt, added ingredients and artificial colors...my system was craving them!

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PrometeyBezkrilov
6/3/2014 16:33 EST

I hope you guys had a chance to look at the countryside. A hobby farm is what may save our asses from what's coming. Don't count on your pensions, they can always be devalued so that the only things you will be able to buy is a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread. Just to get a perspective on what is coming listen to this. Don't get shocked, just prepare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvaZIeidxCo

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RedJasper
8/10/2014 19:37 EST

I looked at your links about the supposed global economic catastrophe that is coming. These links featured people who were talking sheer gobbledygook. I am a former US federal financial regulator. While there are many economic troubles in the world, and no doubt many more to come, the word salad spewed out on the web pages to which you linked do not provide any useful facts or reliable economic prognosis.

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