terrig123
8/27/2016 00:25 EST
I'm posting this in response to the recent negativity and unkind comments that have been posted of late in the other topics. Just to be clear, my husband and I are doing a TON of research in the process of deciding if retiring in Portugal is something we wish to pursue or not. However, reading the steps involved is very different from hearing the first-hand experiences of others who have gone through the process. And when consulates require different things (as the one in SF does), it is very helpful for those things to be shared here. Also, what may seem like a dumb question to one person, can help others, so if anyone must be negative, please do it in a PM rather than for all to see. I'm here to learn, help others (if I can), and hopefully make some new friends. Thanks for reading this and good luck to all!
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PresentMonkey
8/27/2016 00:35 EST
Well said, Thank you for pointing it out. These boards helped us so much when we were going through the process. We are now only 5 days from hopping on our flight to Lisbon.
Don't give up hope and please continue to post questions and ignore those that are troublesome to you. You will get there in the end!
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craigandmicki
8/27/2016 07:10 EST
Why we joined....to help others, as we went thru this process 6 years ago when no single place for answers, instructions, forms existed; we joined to answer reasonable questions from persons who are willing to read, to do some research; we joined to apply our talents and provide legal, accurate advice versus simply reflect experiences that we might have misunderstood or that others have misunderstood and rationalized into 'common practice'. Yes, SF is a tough consul to use, making it even more difficult for those who arrive here under the SF process. Yes, we sometimes get frazzled by people who plagiarize others' work on this site, who can't read what's given them, who have asked the same questions for several years...yes, dears, the same persons, the same questions! This isn't a 'be nice, kids' site--it's an influential, fact-based resource for smart questions and enterprising adults. DO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO TROUBLE YOU...they are trying to explain something!
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Sixyears
8/27/2016 08:53 EST
That is exactly right. Thank you for saying our thoughts. It was my first time posting. Got it wrong obviously.
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Maineniac
8/27/2016 08:55 EST
terrig123; Well said and why I have not posted another question on this forum. It's sad and an insult to the founders of this forum. Theor goal for starting this website:
Our goal has never changed since we first launched nearly 20 years ago. We set out to create a platform that empowers expats to help each other. So when someone decides to move to another country, they can benefit from the wisdom gleaned by those that already have made that transition.
In other words, Expat Exchange isn't just for finding what you need... it's also about helping others along the way. Expats are often surprised how taking the time to make someone else's journey easier makes the entire expat experience so much more rewarding.
Deus te abençoe
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terrig123
8/27/2016 11:24 EST
craigandmicki: I read all the posts and thus far, no one here has troubled me personally. And even if they did, I would still read their replies since I'm here to learn. But some replies to others have been quite rude and I believe that is totally uncalled for. Also, you save in your reply that you're here to provide legal, accurate advice. Are you a lawyer? I have gained so much good information from you, and for that I say "thanks."
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OldPro
8/28/2016 17:18 EST
Terrig123, as someone who has had "first hand experience" of living in other countries, I would offer you the following link to read.
http://www.expatexchange.com/expat/index.cfm?frmid=260&tpcid=3407026
When I read that, "my husband and I are doing a TON of research in the process of deciding if retiring in Portugal is something we wish to pursue or not.", my response is that you might want to look at it from another perspective.
Retiring is not an ending, it is a beginning. Yet so often people seem to think of it and specifically choosing a place to live, as something they 'have to get right' because it is where they will spend the rest of their days. Did you do that when say, you bought your first home or got your first job?
Deciding where to live NEXT now that you are free to choose without the constraints of things like having to live near to where your job is etc. is no different than at any other time in your life.
If you perceive it as simply a NEXT rather than a forevermore decision, a great many things become easier in your decision making. For example, you can't get it WRONG which is what people fear when they see it as forevermore. It's just NEXT and that next may last a short time or a long time. No big deal,
That is one reason why I joined, to try and help people understand that retirement is NOT a one time, forevermore decision making process when it comes to choosing a country to try NEXT.
I have been retired now for 26 years (retired in early 40s). So far I've lived in half a dozen countries. Who knows if there will be another NEXT for me. I certainly don't know, I don't have a crystal ball.
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terrig123
8/28/2016 21:46 EST
Thanks OldPro. That's great that you were able to retire so early and travel/live in different places. Our situation is quite different as my husband will be 65 and I'll be 60 when we move to Europe. While that's still fairly young, I don't picture us moving every few years. We really like having a home base to come back to after our travels. Anyway, I worded that part of my post poorly. We definitely do want to move to Portugal but, as much can happen in the next few years, only time will tell if it remains feasible for us to do so.
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PresentMonkey
8/28/2016 22:23 EST
To Old Pro:
Thank you for your post to Terrig123. It is very good advice. We have lived in two different cities in Thailand for two and a half years. We moved knowing it was not going to be our final home base. And we are indeed leaving to go to our NEXT home in Coimbra, Portugal.
I think everyone needs routine and a few things around them to have a familiar feeling of home. So in packing up our worldly possessions that fit in 3 medium size boxes I am looking at them and feeling anxious and excited for our next adventure.
Moving out of ones home country is difficult and very stressful. All of a sudden you are illiterate, uneducated and a minority. Wow, what an eye opener! To all of those that are planning on moving country, please look at the stages of culture shock and know that when you are out and about and you feel overwhelmed, take a break, grab a coffee or go home and put on some familiar music or an English program or movie.
Know it is ok to have a melt down, just don't unpack and live there, have a rest and start again. Each day will get easier and you will be having an incredible experience!
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OldPro
8/29/2016 13:53 EST
Terrig123, when you write, "Our situation is quite different as my husband will be 65 and I'll be 60 when we move to Europe. While that's still fairly young, I don't picture us moving every few years.", that is where I find that people get an idea in their head without having any actual experience to base it on.
Age has nothing to do with whether someone will 'stick' or not. While I retired early and moved around a few times, I married later and my wife and I made her first move 10 years ago.
When we made that move, I was very much aware that from my own experience and observing others who had moved, that only 1-2 out of 10 stayed beyond 5 years. It isn't empirical evidence but I think if you ask those who have moved from the USA to Portugal as you are contemplating, they would give you similar observations. But they have to have been there more than 5 years to do so. That is why I always suggest listening more to those who have been there long enough to know.
So I emphasized to my wife that the move was just a move like any other move people make in their lifetime. It was not necessarily a forevermore decision. She accepted that but at the same time, she felt quite sure that we had picked the perfect place and could see no reason why it would not be a long term home.
As it turned out, we were quite happy with that move but after 3 years we were both ready to move on. It just lacked some things and although there were many good points, we didn't want to put up with the bad points. So we moved on. We have now been in our current location for 7 years and I see no move on the horizon. But I never rule it out for tomorrow and I'm now 70!
So when you say you 'don't picture moving after a few years', I have to question how you arrive at that picture.
The problem with forming that picture is that it sets you up psychologically for 'failure'. I have seen people move and after a few years become unhappy. But they won't give up and move on because it means they have to tell their family and friends that their 'retirement paradise' didn't turn out to be such a paradise after all. More importantly, they have to tell themselves they got it 'wrong'.
So I go back to the idea of 'NEXT'. If what you 'picture' is moving to Portugal and staying for as long as you want to with NO time expectation in that 'picture', a lot of things change.
For example, you are far more likely to ignore buying a home and just renting. That is always a smart move until you know if you are likely to 'stick'. You are also more likely to make the move with less 'stuff' since you don't want to be moving a houseful of goods and then having to move them again if you decide to move on.
Look at how many people post in this forum about buying a home when they haven't even spent any real amount of time in the country before. If you accept my number of 1-2 out of 10 'sticking', what does that tell you about their decision to buy? They do so because they don't 'picture themselves moving again any time soon'. Well, 8 out of 10 of them must be getting that wrong. Of all the people I have seen move to their 'retirement paradise' and buy a home, I have never seen ONE leave with more money than they arrived with and most left with a lot less money than they had when they arrived. I attribute that loss to how they looked at the move to begin with.
I see where we live as being in 3 phases. Pre-working life; working life; post-working life (retirement). In phase 1 we generally live where our parents decide to live, we have no control. In phase 2, we live where we need to live for work, we have limited control. In phase 3, we're FREE to live wherever we want more or less. Phase 3 is obviously the best phase to be in!
My advice to anyone retiring and thinking of moving to another country is to go ahead and do that. But think of it as going to try a place and see how you like it, don't think of it as 'permanent'. It may be, it may not be, either way is fine if you did not set up an expectation either way.
Trying to get people to understand this message is a big part of why I joined this and other forums. I have seen so many leave unhappy, disillusioned and poorer financially because of how they made decisions based on a 'picture' of retirement that was formed with no basis of experience or listening to those who know.
Some people make the same mistakes over and over again; some learn from their mistakes; a few learn from the mistakes of others who went before them.
P.S. Although I am responding to you terrig123, I am writing to all those contemplating a move and am in no way implying anything about you personally. I wish you well in your retirement, wherever and however many places you live it in.
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terrig123
8/29/2016 18:03 EST
Thanks OldPro, What I actually said was that I don't see us moving every few years as in, once we find a place we like, we will set down roots and make it home. We don't have kids so we can do whatever we like and live wherever we like. Of course that may change, which no one can predict.
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OldPro
8/30/2016 12:25 EST
OK, but you may move through several countries during the first few years of your retirement before you find that place to settle down. It may not be in Portugal.
So again, all I'm saying is no one should assume the first place they try moving to in retirement is going to be the last place they move to.
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terrig123
8/30/2016 18:17 EST
OldPro, Is there a reason why you feel you must write a 917 word treatise on my life choices? How would you feel if I questioned every comment you made here? We've chosen Portugal for many reasons not the least of which is that real estate is still affordable compared with the rest of Europe. Yes we plan to buy at some point. When and where are still to be determined but we will know the perfect place for us when we see it. I realize that our choices may not be the wisest or most prudent way to go but they are our choices.
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kawazaki
8/30/2016 18:47 EST
Why I joined? To find helpful information for my quest to move to Portugal. I did not join to read squabbles between children. People, keep it civil.
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terrig123
8/30/2016 20:27 EST
Well said kawazaki! I won't post an more replies to OldPro here. I too wish to learn and possibly develop a network of like-minded folks for when the time comes for us to move.
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kawazaki
8/30/2016 21:07 EST
My Portuguese friend and I spent several months researching, getting documents, notaries, e-mails to Consulate, calls to SEF, photocopies, scratching our heads, and wading through lack of information, misinformation, and bureaucracy. We read the blogs here and found that much of our experience was different. I now have my 1st year residency, IRS #, Social Security, health care, bank accounts, and VISA card. Now I am preparing to move which is another task unto itself. This seems easy compared to the previous part. In summary, you must be very determined to want to move to Portugal. I can't speak for other countries. Good luck.
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OldPro
9/1/2016 11:31 EST
Actually, I don't think it was Xabay. I see people ignoring what they don't want to hear almost every day on forums.
I'm not here to be your 'friend' or 'make nice' with you. I'm here to share 26 years of experience of moving to and living in other countries. If someone takes exception to how I write something and sees a personal insult in anything that is contrary to how they are thinking, that is THEIR problem not mine.
You CAN lead a horse to water and you CAN"T make it drink. That's a simple fact. I see that simple fact applying here all the time.
As I said to another poster with years of experience living in other countries who was frustrated with trying to 'lead horses to water', only to see them not drink, you may need to try and lead a 100 to get just 1 to drink. Forget the 99 and feel encouraged that you helped the 1 able to hear.
There is a Hebraic saying, "It is not incumbent upon you to complete the work, but neither are you at liberty to desist from it."
In terms of participating in forums such as this, I interpret that as saying, 'you don't have to get every horse to drink, but you should keep leading them to the water.
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dajo
9/1/2016 17:34 EST
Hello,
I am new to this forum but here is my two cents. I joined to learn in order to try to avoid as many unnecessary pitfalls in my future as possible.
I can't and won't speak for anyone else but the advice and opinions are helpful. All of it is useful In some way. If you have thin skin, move along. If you believe that you know more than someone else because your living in Portugal, you are correct, to a point. It is shallow to think just because a person asks a question about Portugal they are naive. I think the advice should be specific to the topic and let the life choices alone. Perhaps they have lived in twenty countries. Just not Portugal.
That is backpacker mentality. I've got more patches on my backpack than you!
The thing with this forum is the lack of resumes! Prove that you've done this and that better or faster or longer than the next person.
Nobody cares what you've done.
I would love to see answers to questions on posts that have specific questions. If the post asks for opinions/ advice then have at it. The poster then should read all of it and remember what the old saying is about opinions.
Personally, if I want an opinion, the title or the text will state that.
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terrig123
9/1/2016 18:01 EST
To OldPro, You called me a horse....how is that not uncalled for? Why can't it sink in to your thick skull that I do take this seriously? I have been listening but as no two situations are the same, the way you did things 20 plus years ago may not work for me or for anybody else. I have received so many pm's in support of my standing up to you that if I printed them out, I could paper a wall. Please stop being a bully and go enjoy your retirement!
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