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Long term Portugal resident's comments to me

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OldPro
  8/31/2016 12:49 EST

I recently got a private message from a long term resident of Portugal who shared his frustration with posters in this forum who just didn't seem to want to hear about the realities of moving to another country.

I quote, "I concur with all you write. But sadly I think it's falling on deaf ears. Due to International Living and other articles declaring Portugal a great place to retire, along with the false sense that "friendships" on internet forums provide, there has been, and will continue to be a huge number of retirees moving here literally blind - sight unseen and without a clue. I feel like I'm witnessing a train wreck. .........................
I've maintained a presence on expat forums because I like to help, but I'm thinking of quitting, it's just too frustrating!"

I'm not going to name this poster obviously but it might be worth thinking about what s/he wrote if you are in the early stages of making a move.

When a long term resident who obviously KNOWS what s/he is talking about and wants to help says s/he is thinking of quitting, what does it say about those s/he is trying to help?

I haven't been posting in this particular forum for a long period of time but I do see a lot of comments by people indicating that if they read anything they don't LIKE, they label it as 'negative' and dismiss it as attempting to interfere in their 'plans'.

Rather than listening to those who know, instead, they want to listen to and exchange information with people who know no more than they do themselves.

What's wrong with this picture?

terrig123
  8/31/2016 14:16 EST

What's wrong with this picture is that you are making assumptions about people you don't even know and are basically chastising them in public for making what you think are bad decisions. I do take this very seriously and I realize that any move abroad won't be easy. That's why I'm doing all this research and why I joined here; to ask questions, read, and learn. But you need to realize that not everyone will follow the same path you did. Seriously how many of us can retire in our 40's? You keep saying that many won't "stick." I'd like to know the percentage of those who don't stick because they miss their kids and grand kids back home. If we go in realizing that the move will be difficult and that we may not decide to stay, then why keep pushing the issue? Anyway I'm done here. If anyone can add useful thoughts and comments to my post on Ablufeira, please do so.
Thanks, Terri

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Xabay
  8/31/2016 14:25 EST

I'm with terrig123. It is most helpful to receive the kindly input from expats who have been through the expatriation process - that's what we're here to get. But input is one thing and browbeating is another. Please offer your advice, but then subside if it is not adopted. People have a zillion different personal reasons for wanting to live abroad, and no one expat's "solutions" or insights or personal experience will fit every newcomer's situation, and it is arrogant and unhelpful for commenting expats to think otherwise.

craigandmicki
  9/1/2016 06:49 EST

OldPro and others: It does become discouraging when facts fall on deaf ears; when the hours a few of us have invested into truly understanding and writing up the processes are ignored because they don't fit what the inquirer wanted to hear. The number of persons who won't do any research on their own is growing. People who misinterpret THEIR experiences as THE experience are misleading others. Posters who treat this forum like a primary school playground where we all make nice nice or evoke a charge of 'brow beating'. This is truly serious stuff; this is complicated stuff. I've not responded to some really wrong info I've seen posted and, sure enough, applications are rejected, timing is off, expenses have been paid. What is the balance we are meant to strike?

Sixyears
  9/1/2016 07:35 EST

I read these post to gain insight not impercial knowledge . My husband and I have a few years till we contemplate our retirement plans. I have done general research. I do know that each person has different experiences with every process. We are not finding our forever place. We have moved 6 times in 12 years due to work. It would be nice to find a place and chill for awhile. To learn a new language and embrace a new culture. If Portugal is not a fit then it isn't . Who knows what will happen in the world in a few years. We do plan on exploring different areas and speaking to people about their life in each. I am learning Portuguese to prepare for this trip because having traveled in Europe I am aware of the isolation one feels not knowing the language. The legal process may change next year for getting visas here so all the technical info now might not work later.
Even so I will continue to read your posts and enjoy the info given. It is appriciate in most instances. How about some stories of everyday happenings there. What do you embrace about the life there?

Xabay
  9/1/2016 13:35 EST

Craigandmicki, I have watched this forum for three years and know your advice has been generously offered, as well as well-founded and valuable. Thank you for all of it. I can well imagine that it is disappointing to you when people ignore it to their own detriment. But there is a big difference between sharing facts, as you and OldPro do, and forcing one's relocation philosophy on others, as OldPro also (and frequently) does. That's opinion, not fact. I don't mind hearing opinions here - it's another reason people are here. But opinions that are repeated and repeated in long screeds as an implicit rebuke to questioners qualify as browbeating. The proof is in the fact that people have felt the need to write messages defending themselves from it. As to your question about what to do when your advice falls on deaf ears, that's easy. Offer your advice on this board. If someone ignores it and you think they are making a disastrous mistake, PM them. If they continue down the road of error, wave them a fond farewell - they are not your children and you are not responsible if their plans go to pieces. What I do know is that *nobody* ever learned something by being hectored about it.

Portugal Residency AdvisorsPortugal Residency Advisors
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Portugal Residency Advisors is a full-service consulting firm dedicated to providing personalized services to individuals and families seeking to relocate to Portugal. With a team of experienced professionals and strategic partnerships, we are well-positioned to assist clients with all aspects of the relocation process.

Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

Portugal Residency AdvisorsPortugal Residency Advisors

Portugal Residency Advisors is a full-service consulting firm dedicated to providing personalized services to individuals and families seeking to relocate to Portugal. With a team of experienced professionals and strategic partnerships, we are well-positioned to assist clients with all aspects of the relocation process.
Connect

Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

craigandmicki
  9/1/2016 13:43 EST

To SixYears post about hearing stories and impressions of Portugal: One of my favorite resources for this is Julie Dawn Fox's blog. Julie has lived here for several years, travels the entire country and posts clear, thoughtful insights about these areas and life here in general. She also provides helpful advice about using public transit, area festivals and foods. I think you will enjoy her blog!

OldPro
  9/2/2016 11:03 EST

We are off today for a couple of weeks hiking in the Swiss Alps.

No doubt when we return and I look at this forum, I will see the same people still inventing problems for themselves . LOL

I take the point about cutting them loose to sink (not swim) on their own.

terrig123
  9/2/2016 13:04 EST

Enjoy your trip. We'll certainly enjoy the break from your bullying (at least I will.) By the way, you never answered my question as to what percentage of those who don't stick left because they missed their kids/grandkids. In fact, you actually never answered any of my questions. Anyway, I joined a group on Facebook yesterday and I've already learned way more in one day than I have in weeks here. Too bad because this could have been a great place for info sharing in a helpful and civilized manner.

CascaisPortugal
  9/2/2016 13:31 EST

which FB group is this Terrig123 ?

wilsonworld
  9/2/2016 13:41 EST

Please only PM the answer. Don't want to turn that place toxic also :(

Portugal Residency AdvisorsPortugal Residency Advisors
Connect

Portugal Residency Advisors is a full-service consulting firm dedicated to providing personalized services to individuals and families seeking to relocate to Portugal. With a team of experienced professionals and strategic partnerships, we are well-positioned to assist clients with all aspects of the relocation process.

Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

Portugal Residency AdvisorsPortugal Residency Advisors

Portugal Residency Advisors is a full-service consulting firm dedicated to providing personalized services to individuals and families seeking to relocate to Portugal. With a team of experienced professionals and strategic partnerships, we are well-positioned to assist clients with all aspects of the relocation process.
Connect

Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

dajo
  9/2/2016 16:21 EST

Hello Terrig123,
I would really appreciate if you could pm the Facebook info to me as well, that is, if you want to. I haven't been on this forum very long but I've already had enough of the ignorant comments.
Thanks in advance.
Phil

craigandmicki
  9/2/2016 17:00 EST

A few members have asked about FB sites of people living in Portugal. There are about 20 such sites. Search for these to find the most helpful: US Expat Taxes; Americans in Portugal; Americans Living in Portugal; Residential Properties in Cascais/Lisbon/Sintra. AngloInfo and InterNations are informational sites.

OutOfHereUSA
  12/15/2016 23:08 EST

I think people who want to plan out their entire experience of living somewhere overseas should stay home.
I've travelled the world and have NEVER made a reservation for anything before hand.
Have some faith you will find a place to sleep once you get there, and bring one small suitcase like Rick Steves does. You can survive, really.
If no one ever told you, they have tooth paste, clothes, razors and drugs just about any civilized place in the world. IF Europeans don't have it, YOU probably don't need it.
Flying by the seat of your pants opens your trip to be a real adventure, not some God forsaken planned mess.

Sixyears
  12/16/2016 09:09 EST

Old pro changing your name doesn't change your post. What you do or have done in the past is not important to others. Everyone does things differently. Please stop imposing your opinions on others.

wilsonworld
  12/16/2016 14:01 EST

OutOfHereUSA/OldPro

With all due respect, that is a insanely narrominded, childish way of thinking when addressing people in this forum who are coming here to seek, share, and advise on topics with other like-minded folks.

Grabbing your bag and heading off on a whirlwind adventure with faith to the wind is not the representation and common ground of people I see posting here.

You traveled the world with no end goal intended or needed. You had a great time and tons of experiences. We get that. Many others of us have also.

What appears to be a much more prevalent theme is of folks seeking residence, of long term situations. Maybe one year, maybe a lifetime, maybe they are not even sure yet. But, they are inquiring, researching, investigation many of the variables which may drive their decisions.

These people include families with children, people with pets, people furthering their education, people that have limited income and are seeking a suitable place they can afford. People with health conditions that require a certain climate. The list goes on and on.

Flying by the seat of your pants has a time and place, as does carefully performing due diligence to insure your future is comfortable.

And Rick Steves? Seriously? Do you really think he is sitting in paradise with just a suitcase? He has a very comfortable home and uses his suitcase doing a fantastic job as a professional travel writer. I don't think referencing him aligns with the reality of the posters to this forum.

Again, you've traveled the world. You have experience. We get that.

To everyone else that contributes insightful, positive, information and comments - Thank you and keep it up. It is so much appreciated!!

OldPro
  12/17/2016 12:59 EST

Ummm, I do not post under any other name here.

While I can see why some might think a post is by me, in fact, I am not the only person in the world who thinks the same way about some things.

Making an assumption that someone is posting under more than one name, leaves you open to 'foot IN mouth' disease.

In this case, a couple of feet are in a couple of mouths.

crshedd
  12/18/2016 15:15 EST

i am fairly new here and think i've posted once, so take what i have to say for what it's worth.
i have read with interest with much of what old pro says. i find him to be a great source of information. that said, he also sounds like an old curmudgeon. his posts are short and bold yet without warmth. i hope to glean more info from him in my research of possible retirement options, but know that he comes across as a bit harsh. i give him the benefit of doubt that he doesn't mean to sound that way, but that is just him.
keep up the postings, old pro, knowing that i am listening. i may ignore, but i am listening.

Scarlatti
  12/18/2016 16:30 EST

same here! :)

Picareno
  1/14/2017 12:22 EST

I too have been scratching my head over the increasingly judgemental and often critical comments at this post. We currently are in Lagos and have run into people of all ages and backgrounds who have immigrated to the area for all kinds of reasons. This trip is part of a very careful and slow process visiting many different countries. That's just our style. We are the opposite of some who have just taken off quickly for a new life...and kudoes to both approaches. We're finding happy expats who've had all kinds of reasoning and lifestyles... and are quite satisfied. I read this forum the way I read Wikipedia: as a start to research and not a final answer to my queries...and certainly not an assessment of my intellectual strengths and/or frailties. I realize that some of the cyber-bullying I've started reading here is rampant all over but I hope this deplorable trend will not last on this forum which I've truly enjoyed for years. A little less of You're such an idiot" and a little more "this is my favorite restaurant" will be greatly appreciated.

Paks
  1/15/2017 01:27 EST

I agree fully with Picareno!

tommaria
  1/16/2017 08:30 EST

Even though I immigrated to US when little from Azores , my husband who is American and I had decided to buy a vacation/retirement home in (Azores) after visiting a few times and loved it & want to live there upon retirement in a few years. The decision wasn't based on reading this forum, but appreciated the advice,opinions and thoughts on this forum, even though we already made the commitment. We do realize also it is a bit different in Portugal than the US so we are always learning their way of life, laws, the way they do things, There is no need to be so critical of others, if one is in disagreement just ignore unless it's a wrong statement, then PM to correct. If one is really interested in moving then one will have to visit and see for themselves and not rely solely on what others say, but use it as helpful tips. There are books also, like "CultureShock! Portugal: A Survival Guide to Customs and Etiquette", it was very helpful to us. We still have much to learn, still living in US!!! :) cheers!

Sixyears
  1/16/2017 08:39 EST

Hi,
You are right, My husband and I use this forum as a suggestion not as dye in the wool facts. We appriciate the info but when we see certain people who constantly post negative things and belittle others we just delete it. I don't believe anyone can make a life altering choice until they have stayed there and viewed the country a few times. Our idea is to look see and then if we like we move maybe for a few months a few years whatever. No one knows what the next day will bring. It is nice to look forward to something new different and exciting .

wilsonworld
  1/16/2017 09:47 EST

Tommaria - Thanks for the suggestion. I just ordered the book!

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