mfitch5998
10/13/2016 14:59 EST
My wife and I are planning to retire i Portugal after obtaining our retirement visas. My question is regarding the Schengen agreement. If have resident Visas from Portugal are we still limited to staying only 3 months at a time in other Schengen countries as we are now, or are we allowed to stay longer than that?
thanks for your help!
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craigandmicki
10/14/2016 08:02 EST
Your initial permission to stay 120 days in Portugal is actually your Schengen Visa. It permits you to travel round trip twice to the US during the 120 days. As passports aren't border-controlled among EU states, you can travel within the EU during that time without limit. Once you get your Type 1/Type D residence permit in Portugal, there are no limits nor requirements to travel. (This info comes from the Schengen Community Regulations as of 2016 and the SEF Immigration regulations updated in July 2016.)
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Sixyears
10/14/2016 08:27 EST
Craig do you always need a visa to visit even if it is only for a week? I am in the US and want to come over to look around in March or April. I have been reading all the posts about Visa requirements. My husband and I have been over to Europe a few times for up to 3 weeks and have never had to get anything. So just wondering if the rules have changed since our last trip years ago
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Yummmmmyme
10/14/2016 08:46 EST
Just adding to what what's being said, I was told that the two times includes the first time you enter Portugal, so you really only have one other trip. I've checked this out with two sources so far, because I've got 2 trips booked and I've been told if I take the second one I may not be allowed back in. If anyone has information other than this, I would love to know where it came from and if there's a piece of legislation I can use to show someone if needed. Obrigada :)
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mfitch5998
10/14/2016 09:55 EST
@Craigandmicki,
Obrigado for the information. So if we have our resident visa, and we later decided to spent 4 months in France for instance, there would be no issues with that. Glad to hear it as we may want to do something like that at some point in time. We really appreciate your help.
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craigandmicki
10/14/2016 11:52 EST
To sixyears question about when one needs a Visa to enter Portugal....gosh, no, you don't need a Visa for a short-term stay! You only need a visa if you stay 120 days in a Schengen country. You can find the details about your flexibility in travel if you go to the Schengen site--http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/
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craigandmicki
10/14/2016 12:47 EST
Yummmmmyme's post about how the two re-entries into a Schengen country during the initial 120 days: darling, I would love to send you the link to this regulation but you never believe anything I post, anyway.
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AnalogKid84
11/6/2016 12:28 EST
@craigandmicki,
You mentioned there were no travel restrictions or requirements on the Type-1/Type-D residence permit in reference to the Schengen area. Sorry to be a little off-topic, but do you know if the same freedom exists on that permit for travel outside the Schengen countries -- specifically, between Portugal and the U.S.?
Thank you.
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OldPro
11/6/2016 12:52 EST
Just noticed the comment by mfitch5998.
First, do not confuse the Visa with a Residence Permit. The first only gets you into the country for 120 days. The second is issued IN the country and allows you to live in that country for a longer period of time. ie. issued for a year.
It is being a legal Resident of Portugal that would allow you to travel for longer periods of time within other Schengen countries. HOWEVER, you must maintain your Residency in Portugal while doing that.
I don't know offhand what is required to maintain residency but I do know that those who gain residency through the 'Golden Visa' prograrm only have to spend 2 weeks a year in Portugal to maintain their residency. That implies obviously that those entering under a Type D visa have to spend more than that amount of time per year in the country. In other words, there will be a minimum number of days per year that you must be in Portugal to be able to maintain Residency.
So, going to France for 4 months may or may not be possible if you want to maintain your Portuguese Residency.
Perhaps someone else knows how many days per year you must be in Portugal to maintain your Residency.
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craigandmicki
11/6/2016 13:15 EST
To AnalogKid's question about travel while only holding the Type 1/D Visa....you have two exits from Portugal to the US during the initial 120 days this Visa covers, then no limits under your Residence Permit. Please see the Schengen Visa website for details.
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craigandmicki
11/6/2016 13:15 EST
To AnalogKid's question about travel while only holding the Type 1/D Visa....you have two exits from Portugal to the US during the initial 120 days this Visa covers, then no limits under your Residence Permit. Please see the Schengen Visa website for details.
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AnalogKid84
11/6/2016 18:28 EST
I realize I was unclear in my post; I was referring to travel conditions specifically under the "residence permit" obtained within Portugal. So:
(1) Thank you, Craigandmicki, for answering that; if travel under the *permit* is unlimited, my concern then switches to what is required to maintain legal residency, since I'm interested in moving toward naturalization.
(2) Thank you OldPro for addressing exactly that. Sometime in the near future I'll probably contact the SF Consulate with questions, and that will be one of them. If/when that happens, I'll report on what they say. (I'll also try to dig through Portuguese law.)
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AnalogKid84
11/6/2016 20:04 EST
I realize I was unclear in my post; I was referring to travel conditions specifically under the "residence permit" obtained within Portugal. So:
(1) Thank you, Craigandmicki, for answering that; if travel under the *permit* is unlimited, my concern then switches to what is required to maintain legal residency, since I'm interested in moving toward naturalization.
(2) Thank you OldPro for addressing exactly that. Sometime in the near future I'll probably contact the SF Consulate with questions, and that will be one of them. When that happens, I'll report on what they say. (I'll also try to dig through Portuguese law.)
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meufado
12/2/2016 23:01 EST
I also have the exact question regarding minimum stay per year in Portugal to maintain residency and apply for permanent residence after year. I actually just started a new post before coming across this one..apologies!
Hope someone has more information. I couldn't find anything specific on SEF website.
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OldPro
12/4/2016 13:55 EST
It does seem to be hard to find the minimum stay requirement to maintain your Residency but I'm going to make an educated GUESS that is 183 days per year.
The Golden Visa stresses the advantage of only having to stay 7 days in the first year and 14 per year after that but nowhere can I find where it says something like, 'as compared to the normal X number of days per year to maintain residency.'
I'm guessing the 183 days because that is the number of days after which you are DEEMED to be resident for tax purposes, so it would make some sense that if it is the maximum number of days you can stay without being deemed a tax resident, then it would be the minimum number of days you have to stay to be deemed resident in general as well.
You have to be resident for 5 years before you can apply for Permanent Resident status meufado.
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craigandmicki
12/4/2016 18:56 EST
Minimum stay requirements: This is determined by the Schengen rules. Can be absent from the country for 5 months out of a year but accumulatively no more than 10 months in a 5 year period; if these limits are exceeded one can apply for a 2 yr renewal but not a 5 year/permanent residency. See comments at the article "Demystifying the Paper Trail".
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meufado
12/4/2016 20:54 EST
Thanks Susan for the link. However, I was surprised to find on the dutch website that the requirements are more relaxed
https://ind.nl/en/other/permanent-residence/Pages/permanent-residence-after-5-years.aspx
No mention of a 10month rule but they stipulate in a 3 year consecutive period no more than 4 consecutive months outside. This is in addition to no more than 6 consecutive months abroad a year which makes sense of course.
There is no mention of 10months in the SEF document, so I thought perhaps each country could override the EU rule and hoping that we could get away with just the 183 day minimum rule, like OldPro mentions :)
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Palo1955
12/5/2016 09:00 EST
You dont need a visa to visit the EU and travel EU countrys for up to 90 days. I will share our experience. We came to Lisbon Portugal on June 1 2016. Applied for a visa extention at 60 days here. They gave us an appointment date 60 days out and a letter to carry allowing us to stay legally. the cost was about $120 for each of us. We where told we needed to leave hust before our visa extention expired and stay out for 24 hours then we could return for 90 more days. We went to London for a week to reset our visa. For a retirement you need to apply from the USA or get an attorney when your here.
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meufado
12/5/2016 12:08 EST
Right Palo1955, however in my case I'm looking for a permanent residency option in Portugal/EU with the flexibility of visiting family in US and other countries for about 4 months a year. I was hoping to keep renewing the temporary residence permit granted by SEF till I reach the 5 year mark and then apply for Permanent Residency. But I want to be sure on the minimum residence for that - whether at least 183 days is sufficient per year or I need to comply with the max 10mo outside EU rule
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OldPro
12/6/2016 14:21 EST
I tend to trust craigandmicki's advice meufado. It sounds like you can be absent for the 183 but with the 10 month max total in 5 years.
Given your plans, I would not want to risk it without having got some professional advice from a reputable immigration lawyer in Portugal.
Most countries do have similar rules. Just to show how confusing it can be even when it seems straightforward to begin with, read here as an example:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/how-long-can-i-be-absent-from-canada-after-landing-t142271.0.html
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Yummmmmyme
12/10/2016 12:56 EST
@craigandmiki
Wow. Ouch!
Interestingly enough, I've actually always found ur info to be extremely helpful and accurate. I'm not sure what I've done that would warrant a comment like that from you, but I don't appreciate the disparaging aggression. If u have issues with anything I suggest here please feel free to offer your own experience or to contact me privately.
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Portoexpat
12/14/2016 14:59 EST
I am also making this plan to move and intend to spend time in France .,since EU is borderless as I understand you can stay where ever in the EU as long as you arrive in and leave from portugal. This is my understanding
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