Newworld1
10/9/2015 20:01 EST
I am a single male in my early 30s considering making a move to Thailand. I am tired of the big city rat race here in California and am interested in a slower more peaceful lifestyle that will allow me to live more comfortably, at least financially.
I traveled all through Thailand in 2009 and loved it. I am really thinking about moving back for an extended period of time, who knows how long.
I have 2 main concerns/questions I would love some feedback on.
1) Business. I've got money saved up that will allow for me to start up some sort of business once I get settled. I'll definitely need something profitable though as I am still many years away from retirement. Can you all share some typical or no so typical ways expats make a living in Thailand. I'd imagine tourism and food services are two of the big ones. From researching the net a lot of people seem to be "digital nomads" making a living online. I just don't have much experience in this space, although I could learn. Any ideas to help get my wheels spinning would be very helpful.
2) Social life. Are there a lot of young expats in Thailand ? Is it easy to make friends, meet women, hang out with locals ect...
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hawkesk
10/9/2015 22:40 EST
I don't want to rain on your parade but Thailand is no place to invest in right now. The economy is going down the toilet, the military coup is stifling growth, and work is just SO difficult to get off the ground here. You have the difficulty of trying to get a work permit, necessary to start ANY kind of business, and that's a crap shoot whether or not you even GET one, there is NO guarantee or logical process.
I highly recommend you join the Thai-Visa forum at Thaivisa.com
There you will receive a LOT of information. Some may disagree with me, but after living here nine years, I'm getting out. Thailand is now a GREAT place to visit, but living here? I wouldn't recommend it right now.
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hawkesk
10/9/2015 22:42 EST
P.S. - A thing to consider would be teaching English for a year to try it out. You don't need any type of degree, though a Bachelor's and TEFL/TESOL certificate will get you a higher starting pay. School year starts March/April. PM me if you want more details.
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caughtintheact
From: Thailand
10/10/2015 02:26 EST
In a separate reply, Hawkesh makes some good points.
I was able to do well here by going to grad school and that got me networked, which has served me well over the years. Not necessarily the route for everyone, however.
I am not necessarily as pessimistic as Hawkesh, though. There are always opportunities. Food and Beverages is one industry, and it is not unknown for expats to run bars or restaurants. Much will depend on your education and qualifications (specialties). The work permit can be a pain, and you need to study the requirements before making any decisions - see any decisions - see http://www.thaiworkpermit.com/work-permit-documents-but don't use it as gospel, as the requirements do change.
Young expats are to be found in many areas of Thailand, for example, in Bangkok, the Sukhumvit bar areas around Soi 23, Washington Square, etc. Many also frequent the beaches of Thailand like Pattaya, Phuket, Hua Hin, etc. You can also look around the web for expat clubs in Thailand
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hawkesk
10/10/2015 03:38 EST
Again, I highly recommend contacting members of ThaiVisa.com and get some real time stories. Sure, there are lots of bars and restaurants up for sale, but you have to ask yourself why are so many available in the first place?
There is no rule of law in Thailand as there is in SoCal. I have known too many people who have tried their hand at opening up a business here to get eaten by the sharks treading these waters. One of my best friends here owned a bar and let another guy manage it. This manager wound up stealing everything from the building including the copper pipes from the walls. My friend tried to take legal action against him only to find out this thief's brother-in-law was a Thai police officer. It wound up with my friend having to pay a LOT of money just to stay out of jail. The slander laws here are ridiculous. Even though this guy DID steal all the items from the bar, because my friend spoke the words that "he believed he stole the items," due to English-Thai translation, it was enough for this (connected) criminal to bring charges against the lawful owner. I know other friends who have had similar situations, and I actually know only one semi-successful bar owner, but since the coup, he is worried about the military bulldozing his property down because he is on prime beachfront property and the title is a little dodgy. And trying to find employees is a whole OTHER topic.
Pessimistic? No, just a realist. Like I posted earlier, times are VERY hard right now, very little discretionary spending money floating around here. If you decide to go ahead and try your luck, be sure you can afford to lose everything.
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DSTEINER
10/10/2015 09:05 EST
May I have your opinion on what the impact of the economic instability and coup is having on the cost of apartment and home rentals in the major locations such as Bangkok, chiang mai, Hua Hin, other?
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caughtintheact
From: Thailand
10/10/2015 09:50 EST
I recommend you do a web search for impact of economic slowdown on Thai housing costs and get some data instead of opinions.
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DSTEINER
10/10/2015 10:32 EST
I have tried that and the relevant current information is not available.
My impression is that both tourism and employment is down in Thailand which should be driving higher vacancies. If so, where is this prevalent and what impact is it having, if any, on rental/lease costs for a two bedroom furnished condo or house? Some of the information seems to indicate that there is no reduction in costs seen so far but the information may be a bit dated.
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caughtintheact
From: Thailand
10/10/2015 10:58 EST
Sorry, I don't do business research. You might want to contact some of the real estate companies like http://www.cbre.co.th/en
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DSTEINER
10/10/2015 11:34 EST
Whatever!!!!!
Please note was not asking you to do business research...only wanted a personal opinion since you had a rather strong set of comments at the beginning of this message string.
Sorry I caught you in a position where you really have no qualified opinions.
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Newworld1
10/10/2015 16:29 EST
Thanks for the honest feedback. I did not realize things were quite so unstable there at the moment. Out of curiosity where are you going to go ? Are any other SE Asian countries looking like they may have greener pastures ?
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Newworld1
10/10/2015 16:32 EST
Teaching english was actually my plan for the first 6-12 months. I was even thinking of checking out Vietnam as well. I figure this is a fairly risk adverse way to dip my toes in the water. Thanks!
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hawkesk
10/10/2015 18:29 EST
The problem with Thai "logic" is, because the market is collapsing, the obvious solution is to RAISE prices.
The majority of Asian property owners pay cash and will DIE before they will drop their price.
It doesn't mean there aren't deals to be found, but for reasons I can't post here for fear of being put in jail for a LONG time, I would not recommend buying any property. As I previously posted, there is no rule of law and this place is like a powder keg waiting for the fuse to be lit.
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hawkesk
10/10/2015 18:45 EST
To answer your two questions:
1. I'm moving to Mexico. A tourist visa costs ~$25, good for six months. A large part of why I'm moving is I am a musician but cannot play music in public, even as a volunteer, without a work permit that for all intents and purposes is impossible to obtain. Thai immigration pursues aggressively but in a haphazard manner.
2. From everything I've heard from teachers who have taught in Vietnam, it is wonderful. I've never heard of a teacher having a bad experience. They are very strict in requiring a Bachelor's degree, hence the better quality schools and conditions.
Thai schools are a zoo. We tell every new teacher, "You are not here to teach; you are here to give the _appearance_ of teaching." Again with the Thai "logic," they've created an environment where they got rid of a lot of foreign teachers because of illegal visa cheaters, but no change to try and attract quality teachers. Again, go to ThaiVisa.com where there is a MOUNTAIN of information. I taught for five years on a retirement visa. ABSOLUTELY illegal, yet the school assisted me complicitly. The low pay and visa insanity makes Thailand desperate for teachers. The school year starts around March, so mid-January to mid March is the time to get your cv out there.
Again, pm me for more details, and good luck!
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DSTEINER
10/11/2015 10:11 EST
Thanks ....I appreciate your candor.
My wife an I are selling our very large home and I am just entering my third week of retirement.
We are very familiar with Thailand and Vietnam and we lived in Singapore where we also have a home which is being rented by a trusted agent. I have not personally traveled to Thailand in about 8 years and it has been four years since I visited Vietnam. My wife has been back every year or two for extended periods as she has family in Singapore.
It sounds like much has changed. We plan on moving to the USA Northwest for three years and will use that as a travel base into Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. We will use this time and operating base to decide if and where we want to spend extended time after we move from Seattle.
At this point it sounds like Vietnam or Malaysia will be the priorities of our ibterest from a standpoint of visas, culture, people, language and cost of living, as well as the ability to travel both in country and out of country. We truly love Thailand but would need to see more stability before we select it as an extended living location.
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DSTEINER
10/11/2015 10:11 EST
Thanks ....I appreciate your candor.
My wife an I are selling our very large home and I am just entering my third week of retirement.
We are very familiar with Thailand and Vietnam and we lived in Singapore where we also have a home which is being rented by a trusted agent. I have not personally traveled to Thailand in about 8 years and it has been four years since I visited Vietnam. My wife has been back every year or two for extended periods as she has family in Singapore.
It sounds like much has changed. We plan on moving to the USA Northwest for three years and will use that as a travel base into Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam. We will use this time and operating base to decide if and where we want to spend extended time after we move from Seattle.
At this point it sounds like Vietnam or Malaysia will be the priorities of our ibterest from a standpoint of visas, culture, people, language and cost of living, as well as the ability to travel both in country and out of country. We truly love Thailand but would need to see more stability before we select it as an extended living location.
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Paymking
10/17/2015 09:14 EST
Where in Mexico and overall do you like living abroad ? My husband and I Texas native 60 & 55 yrs of age
Looking into early retirement -- we come from the boating and mechanical world -- super friendly and social fit-ins no matter where we are in the world
Considering - Thailand, Mexico, Barcelona,Cabo etc..
We come with one small Pomeranian
Husband wants to know if he can bring his weapons :-)
Your advice suggestions appreciated
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hawkesk
10/17/2015 16:07 EST
I believe I responded to another post you made about moving to Thailand. To be sure, thaivisa.com has excellent info and many quality members to answer any and all questions about Thailand. One of my major beefs with Thailand is the work permit situation. I am a musician and CANNOT play in public (even as a volunteer) without a work permit which is near impossible to get. Don't get me wrong, Thailand has many charms and plenty of clean fun to be had, but if you are depending on income from business here, I personally wouldn't take the risk. I've seen too many friends gobbled up by the land shark/predators lurking about.
I'm moving to Zihuatanejo, Mexico (remember "The Shawshank Redemption?"). A friend of mine has a band there and I can play music as a volunteer without a work permit. I'm also a scuba instructor and may find some part time fun stuff there. I'm still keeping the option of returning to Thailand. I have a pension that makes it very comfortable to maintain a nice life style.
As a final note, I understand a desire to see life outside the U.S. I come back once a year to visit family and friends, and every time I do it reminds me why I don;t live there.
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Thaihank
10/28/2015 14:33 EST
You have several obsticals to move to Thailand.
The magic number is 50 for a non immigrant retirement visa. It requires $30,000 U.S. In the bank or an income of $2,000 U.S. A month. As a young man, you would be better off looking for a job in Thailand and being sponsored by the Company recruiting you.
Most of the younger women are travelers. For a Farang, foreigner, the visa limit is 60 days for a USCitizen with an option for another 30 days if you make a visa run going out of Thailand and returning.
You can marry a Thai. That allows you to stay. Most are looking for money, not love. If you get divorced, you lose your status.
If you are a college graduate you can teach English in a school. There are specific requirements, including Thai customs. There is a limit on how long you can teach. Not more than 2 years.
Thaihank
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hawkesk
10/28/2015 17:28 EST
Thaihank - spot on except for the last remark of a two year limit. There is currently no limit as to how many years a farang can teach and Thailand is desperate for teachers at this moment. You don't even have to have a degree or TEFL/TESOL. You just need a pulse and you will find work as a teacher. I taught for 4 years, only a two-year junior college degree and a TESOL. I saw MANY people come through with absolutely NO qualifications (one who is a good friend of mine half way through his 3rd year of employment).
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hawkesk
10/28/2015 17:29 EST
Thaihank - spot on except for the last remark of a two year limit. There is currently no limit as to how many years a farang can teach and Thailand is desperate for teachers at this moment. You don't even have to have a degree or TEFL/TESOL. You just need a pulse and you will find work as a teacher. I taught for 4 years, only a two-year junior college degree and a TESOL. I saw MANY people come through with absolutely NO qualifications (one who is a good friend of mine half way through his 3rd year of employment).
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lonewolf15
10/29/2015 08:30 EST
He must be interested in opinions; otherwise, he wouldn't be posting on this forum.
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lonewolf15
10/29/2015 08:33 EST
Actually, no one asked you to do any business research. Obviously, you have nothing meaningful to add to the forum, and your sarcasm is boring.
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lonewolf15
10/29/2015 09:13 EST
I wouldn't want to rain on your parade, but I would give your proposed move to Thailand some serious thought. I traveled to Thailand probably 20 times starting in 1990 and, like you, I loved it. So I moved to Bangkok when I retired last April. Now that I've been here for six months, I'm thinking it was a great place to visit, but I'm not so sure I want to continue living here. The main reasons are reliability and quality. While Thai people are extremely kind, they are not very reliable. They don't do what they say they are going to do. They say they will call back, but they don't. They say they will deliver something at a certain time, and then they show up extremely late, or perhaps even early, or maybe not at all. I've had two different suppliers tell me that they will make a door for me, and after six months, I still don't have the door. There just doesn't seem to be any sense of commitment, and that leads to a lot of frustration. The "mai pen rai" attitude about everything was kind of cute when I was a tourist, but now that I live here, it's pretty frustrating.
Added to that, the quality of a lot of the goods here is fairly substandard. Take furniture as an example. It is very difficult to find furniture made in Thailand that isn't cheap-looking and/or poorly constructed. And most of the major stores have the same stuff, so there's not a great selection. And the imported stuff is quite expensive.
While I won't go so far as to say that I regret my move, I will have to say that I'm already thinking Thailand will end up being a stepping stone to some other country for me. I'm running into too many obstacles with commonplace needs and problems that shouldn't be so hard to fix.
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hawkesk
10/29/2015 20:23 EST
I left Thailand a week ago and the exchange rate was ~35 baht to the dollar.
A legitimate school will pay about 30-35k baht per month with paid vacation and EXTREMELY limited benefits. Very limited upward mobility.
International schools will pay 50-80k baht with paid vacation and VERY good benefits, and it's a great career path.
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wealthychef
10/29/2015 22:01 EST
When you say "international schools," you seem to be contrasting them with "legitimate schools." Are international schools illegitimate? Not living there, I'm not sure what you mean by "international school." Is that a school for children of people from other countries who live in Thailand for work etc.?
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