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Take it or leave it?

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vinoma
8/4/2010 17:35 EST

hello

we are considering a move from ny to london. both of us are in jobs in NY with a base of $280K. we have a 3 year old who still is in day care and we intend to continue that arrangement in london.

now, i have been offered a base of GBP100K plus 10K relocation assistance. and my wife is being offered a base of GBP 100K as well.

is this comparable? also, in terms of budgeting for some big expenses:

52000 GBP annual rent - we would like to rent a 3BR/3Bath place in a nice lively neighborhood with ample options for kids and a short commute to work in canary wharf

24000 GBP daycare/school for our little one.

do not want to own a car

what other significant expenses do i need to consider to decide if this is even a viable move for us.

also the GBP 10K relocation - is that enough to do a international move? we have furniture that fills up a 4BR place currently.

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gah26

From: United Kingdom
8/7/2010 08:57 EST

200K GBP is pretty decent. Of course, it depends on your lifestyle.

This website will give you an idea of what your take home pay will be:

http://listentotaxman.com/

If you are working in Canary Wharf I would concentrate on things in Central London on the Jubilee Line. In my opinion you can survive just fine without a car just about any place within Zone 1. Get yourself a tube map and a map of London and look for neighborhoods that are reasonably close to a Jubilee Line stop, like Marylebone and St. John's Wood (the American ghetto, tons of Americans here due to the American School) are both nice neighborhoods with just about everything you need within walking distance. Mayfair is lovely but certainly not lively and while you wouldn't need a car you'd struggle to find a corner shop to get a pint of milk. If you don't mind making a change on the tube you might consider Bayswater, Notting Hill or Holland Park. But, if you want to keep your commute simple, I would try to limit yourself to one tube line, no changes. Just my opinion.

Here are some property webistes so you can get an idea of what a 3 bed/3 bath property will go for:

primelocation
rightmove
findaproperty

To get an idea of neighborhoods:

upmystreet

Just a note on flat sizes. They're small. You say you live in a 4 bedroom house, I assume you live in a house outside of NYC. Even if you downsize to 3 bedrooms you WILL have to leave a lot of stuff at home. A double bedroom sometimes only fits a double bed. And there will probably be no closet. So, somehow you have to fit a double bed and a wardrobe and a dresser into a room that barely has room for a bed. The English seem to be more interested in having more bedrooms rather than decent sized bedrooms.

Aside from the expenses that you would expect like electric, phone etc, you will have to pay for a TV license, water and council tax.

The TV license is pretty insignificant at about £125/year which can be paid in installments.

Water will depend on whether you're metered so you obviously pay for what you use or not metered. We've lived in 2 places without meters. Our current flat is slightly smaller than our 1st flat, but we take the same amount of showers, wash the same amount of clothes, run the dishwasher the same amount etc, but our water bill dropped by 1/2 just because the flat is smaller square footage wise, I assume.

Council tax varies depending on what borough you live in. It is based on property value (although the value is based on something like 1992 prices) with bands from A through H. If you are looking for 3 bedrooms, I would assume you would be in one of the higher bands. Like I said this will vary greatly from borough to borough, but I would expect a minimum of £1500/year which can be paid in 10 installments.

If you intend to move all your stuff, you will either need a bigger housing budget if you want to live in Central London, or you will have to consider living outside of London and getting a car. So, it depends on how much stuff you decide to move whether £10,000 is adequate. Aside from the cost of actually moving, you should consider that you will need to replace nearly all your electrical appliances.

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vinoma
8/9/2010 09:10 EST

Thank you for all those tips. I sure need it as we get closer to negotiating the terms with my employer.

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Jordanlind
8/10/2010 07:17 EST

We relocated from Boston to London over a year ago and we LOVE it!

If either of you (or both of you) get a relo package, try to get the following options in your package(s). We got these features added and are very glad we had these things sorted.

1) Tax Prep: Ask the company to pay for tax prep for at least two years. It gets very complicated since you will have to file in both the US and the UK. There is a tax treaty between the two countries so you will not have to double pay taxes but it is still pretty complicated. There are ways to minimize your tax exposure in both the US and the UK especially if you are considered "non-domicile" in the UK, so if you are set up properly in the beginning, you can save a ton of taxes. Also, remember to add ALL the tax implications into your living formulas. Taxes are much higher here and there are very limited deductions. Remember that pretty much EVERYTHING is taxed in your relo package so you can assume a tax liability for all relo benefits like the value of the tax prep, moving expenses, exploratory visits, rent reimbursement, etc. You might want to consider adding this tax expense to an "up-front moving bonus" (which of course is taxed so gross it up!) The basic tax rates here are as follows: 20% up to 37.5, 40% up to 150K and 50% over 150K. They do not have the concept of "married filing jointly", but you can minimize your tax by getting the right advice. Just make sure you get a professional who understands both the US and UK tax systems.

2) Car Allowance: Ask for a car allowance even if you do not plan to get a car. A lot of UK companies expect to give car allowances as an option so you may as well ask. If you do not use the allowance, the amount is simply an add-on to your income 9txed of course!). I agree that you really do not need a car in London and it is often more difficult to drive in most sections of London. I would recommend registering for CityCar (car club) when you get here and you can pick up a car in your own neighborhood when you need it. It is typically a lot cheaper in the long run for those few times that you really need a car.

3) Return to US: Make sure you get a firm return package back to the US in case anything happens. The economy is not great here so plan for the worst. We have a friend who relocated here a year ago and is about to be laid off. He did not ask for this option in his package and is he ever regretting it!

4) Health Care: Get your health care sorted out and ask HR about added medical coverage. Many companies offer supplemental health care as a benefit, but some are cutting this out of their benefits plans. You are automatically covered under NHS, but for the first year of residency, you are limited to walk-ins and hospital emergency rooms. Once you live here for a year, you can register with a proper heath care facility and get a primary care physician, but until then, you have very limited choice of doctors and specialty care. This may be important for your children particularly.

5) Visas: If both of you get a job, that's great, but make sure BOTH of you have working visas. Typically a company will pay for a visa for the spouse so make sure you are covered if the other is not immediately accepting a job. Once you live here, it is very difficult for a foreigner to find a job without a working visa. Of course, get both visas completely finished BEFORE you leave the US since there is a lot of running around and paperwork to complete back there.

6) Ask for a temporary living allowance while your goods are in transit. It sometimes takes 8-12 weeks for the goods to arrive. And by the way, make sure you fill the paperwork out completely and accurately to avoid the shipment being held up in Customs. One other hint: stock up on stuff that you cannot get here and send it along with your shipment. No food or chemicals, liquids, etc. of course, but there are some things that I really miss here and end up stocking up on when I return to the US for visits.

7) Watch your insurances: Get proper coverage on your goods in transit for instance. Friends of ours had their containers arrive and they were filled with mold! They were apparently not covered for mold, so they really had to fight with the moving company. Also watch your life insurance. Some policies do not cover you if you move out of the country, so get that sorted before you leave. Ask your company for extensive transit insurance for your belongings. Also, when you move, take your valuables with you! Do not ship them if they are important and valuable.

Some other words of wisdom:

1) Research the area you plan to live in VERY carefully, especially if you have children! I live in the Putney area and it is a great place for children. It has parks, a great city centre, nice family style pubs, great schools and day care, etc. Yes there is a bit of a commute to the city center, but you make up for that with the area's features. There are of course many other areas of London that are terrific for families, but you really need to check out any specific neighborhood first.

2) Think carefully about your life back in the US if you plan to return in a few years. My husband is British for instance and he had a Green Card. However, before we left, he obtained his US citizenship, otherwise he would have had to reapply for a Green Card if we were away from the US for too long.

3) Consider keeping a health insurance policy in the US for major illnesses. The health care system here is not as bad as people make it out to be, but the US is still better for high end care. It is good to have the option of returning to the US for extremely complicated issues.

3) Get caught up on all heath visits, tests, eye exams, dentist visits, etc. before you leave. The rules for tests are different here, so for instance, women get mammograms every 3 years, not every year. NHS does not really have the concept of an annual physical. Basically, you go to the doctor when you have something wrong. You are covered for annual physicals however, when you have the extra health insurance coverage. You can of course get a physical any time you wish, but you pay extra for it if you are not covered.

4) Flats (apartments) are typically smaller and more compact so pick your flat carefully and don't take too much with you! External storage is VERY expensive here. Most flats have very little storage and closet space. I chose to store stuff back in the States and I am glad we did!

5) Everything is more expensive. You learn quickly to avoid cab rides and rely on public transport, but if you are not used to living with public transport, it can be daunting at first. Once you find your way around, you just have to plan your travel time accordingly because it can take up to two hours to get from one side of the city to the other. Look on the website Transport for London (tfl,gov.uk) and try a few example commutes before you pick an area in order to get a good idea about the length of your daily work commute.

6) Basic phone calling: When you get here, you can set up a VOIP line in the US (with a US number) that will ring through to your flat with no international charges to US callers. This really helps to keep in touch with family and friends in the US. Also, use Skype and Skype-to-Go.

7) Spend the time/money to digitize all your mementoes, pictures, etc. I did this and I have my pictures with me wherever I go! My actual pictures are stored in the US. Also, digitize all important documents and contracts.

Overall, if you plan to live in the UK, there are a lot of things that are different so come with the intention of embracing the culture. I definitely miss some American things, but I LOVE this city because I have an open mind about life here. I know a few 'crabby Americans' who complain constantly about the culture here and all the things they miss about the US. Of course it's different here, but it is also better and more exciting in some ways if you have the right attitude. The right approach will make all the difference in your family's experience.

Good luck and I hope this helps!

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Kguercio1
8/10/2010 11:43 EST

Thank you - so much info.

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vinoma
8/10/2010 12:53 EST

Thank you so much - that is such valuable information to work with.

Another question on the school system - or I should say pre-school. She will be 3 soon, so I think she is ready to go to pre-nursery/montessori. So two questions:

- Is there a long waiting to have your child enrolled in pre-nursery schools?

- Any recommendations on pre-schools in london?

- What should I be budgeting for this expense?

Btw its very encouraging to hear that you are enjoying yourself in london. I agree its all about the right attitude!

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fndgnemo
8/11/2010 14:18 EST

Can I add another question to your list in the event someone has an answer? I also have a three year old and he attends preschool two days a week in the US. Was wondering if there is a universal schedule for kids that age? Is it the norm that three year olds go five days a week all day long? Or do most do half day? Or is there flexibility? Thank you!

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