Hi W. my answers that might not be the last word on it are in Capital letters. Apologies for that.

Is the milk in Uruguay pasteurized?
YES
Is raw milk available as an option?
NOT IN THE CITY IN SMALL TOWNS YES.

Are all the different types of livestock for food treated with hormones and antibiotics?
YES
If so, is organic meat reasonably priced?
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TELL BESIDES OF TRUSTING THE WORD OF THE PRODUCER. WHEN IS FOUND YES, PRETTY EXPENSIVE.
How much would a one pound organic steak cost in a store or market? IN ATLANTIDA 2.2POUNDS OF ORGANIC CHICKEN WOULD COST ABOUT 8 DOLLARS

I read some where that the municipal water is fluoridated. What a shame. YES IT IS AND IS ACID TOO.

Real sea salt is essential. The news indicates that salt is not to be served in restaurants? GOOD SALT COMES FROM BRAZIL. YOU NEED TO ASK FOR SALT IN RESTAURANTS, THE LAW SAYS CANNOT BE IN THE TABLE.

Are uruguays fooled into consuming low fat foods? YES, DO YOU THINK IT IS NOT RIGHT? WHY?

Are GMO crops prevalent there? Are the packages labeled? YES GMO ARE PREVALENT AND PACKAGES JUST STARTED TO SHOW THAT INFO. MOSTLY NOT AND THERE ARE VERY FEW REGULATIONS AND THEY ARE BARELY ENFORCED.

Do the fields get sprayed with herbicides there, or is more like the way the Amish do it... By weeding? SPRAYED A LOT.

Is all the bread and pasta bleached and "enriched" with bromine, niacin and iron?
MOSTLY YES, CANNOT TELL IF ALL.

Do people recycle? NO, THEY DON'T

Is seed saving outlawed like in the u.s.? NOT YET, BUT RICE, SOY AND CORN IS.

I know a tetnus shot is required to enter Uruguay and I recall someone saying to have it done in the u.s. Why? Any other opinions on this? YOU CAN HAVE IT HERE FOR FREE, OR YOU CAN JUST NOT HAVE IT (I KNOW PEOPLE WILL DISAGREE WITH ME AND I AM NOT GOING TO FIGHT BACK HERE IN THE FORUM BUT I CAN EXPLAIN IF NECESSARY)

Are people on the street upset about this Philip Morris law suit against Uruguay regarding the labeling of cigarettes as being harmful? I BELIEVE NOBODY CARES ABOUT THIS.

Are their restrictions on one trying to purchase or import vitamins? YES.
If a friend in the states wanted to mail me an unmarked box containing vitamins and supplements via ups, would they open it and inspect everything in customs? YES AND THEY ARE VERY LIKELY TO BE SIZED. What would be the result? THEY MIGHT PASS OR NOT.

Would the fresh and clean foods I seek be more available in Brazil? BRAZIL HAS STRONGER REGULATIONS AND THEY ARE MORE ENFORCED BUT ORGANIC FOOD IS NOT AVAILABLE ALL OVER AND NOT BODY CARES, THEY WANT CHEAP STUFF. Is bringing food over the boarder from Brazil any kind of issue? YES IF YOU PASS THROUGH CUSTOMS, IN RIVERA CUSTOMS IN +or- 5 kms INLAND.

i think these are all important questions and I sincerely appreciate anyone willing to take their time to answer one or more of them.

I hope this post doesn't come off as snobbish. After loosing my dad to cancer, I have become very food conscious and grow much of my own food for safety reasons.

Thanks again, NP

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I will tell you what I have found here in Atlantida. You will find a lot more choices in Montevideo and much less in very small towns.

Yes the milk is pasteurized. But you may find a farmer willing to sell raw milk.

Organic food is available on selected products, I have not found the price much different to regular prices in the supermarket for herbs and vegeatables.

Food labelling is minimal on many products, but I do see labels saying which country some of the fruit comes from.

I have never seen proof that OSE water is flouridated but the table salt is. I cannot think why they would do both.

Sea salt is hard to find especially if you want it plain. There are expensive brands with herbs in them.
You can ask for salt in a restaurant - it won't be sea salt though. You also now have to ask for mayo, ketchup etc. too.

Low fat items are available - mostly imports.

Yes, a lot of pesticides, and fungicides are used.

Most of the bread and flour is white but you can get other choices.

There is little recycling at source but from what I have read, the garbage is sorted after collection. You will find bins in some locations such as supermarket parking lots for recyclables and some bottles are money back. You will also see folk going through the garbage bins looking for stuff.

it is probably simpler to get the medical tests such as a PAP, tetanus and mammogram if needed before arriving but not necessary.

I can imagine your package would either be returned to the US or if you can produce a Dr. certificate from here and the items are not available here, you might be allowed at great cost to receive them.

There are health food stores that sell some things.

http://www.elnaranjo.com.uy/categoria_hierbas-extractos-medicinales.html

Most folk here ask someone visiting the US to bring them back a few things. You generally don't have problems bringing them with you.

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As far as tetanus is concerned, get the shot in Uruguay. You cannot get a single antigen vaccine for tetanus in the states. It has other vaccines as well. Here it is just tetanus and it's free. I know, I researched it with doctors and vaccination clinics, government entities responsible for vaccines stateside and if you want single antigen, you have to buy your own vial of vaccine for $200 or just come here and get the real thing for free.

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Great reply carlitos.

>Is the milk in Uruguay pasteurized?
>YES

They appear to be using recombinant bovine growth hormone also. :-/

>Is raw milk available as an option?
>NOT IN THE CITY IN SMALL TOWNS YES.

Yeah, if you live out in the country, you can get it from a neighbor. And the local almacen probably has it also.

>Are all the different types of livestock for food treated with
>hormones and antibiotics?
>YES

One thing that's better here is that the chicken feed doesn't have arsenic in it like it does in the US. But it still does have antibiotics and hormones.

I read somewhere also that it's a bad idea to each chicken wings, because things like steroids are often injected into the chicken's wings, causing you to get a higher dose. Fun stuff.

>If so, is organic meat reasonably priced?
>I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TELL BESIDES OF TRUSTING THE
>WORD OF THE PRODUCER. WHEN IS FOUND YES, PRETTY
>EXPENSIVE.

Most beef and lamb here is grass fed. Chicken is feed fed. Pork appears to be garbage fed.

So at least the cows aren't fed scrap candy or GMO corn. They're just now starting to get feed lots here. I see it sometimes advertised at butcher shops like it's a good thing.

>I read some where that the municipal water is fluoridated. What
>a shame. YES IT IS AND IS ACID TOO.

Yep. Wells are common though if you get outside the city and away from the coast.

>Real sea salt is essential. The news indicates that salt is not
>to be served in restaurants? GOOD SALT COMES FROM
>BRAZIL. YOU NEED TO ASK FOR SALT IN RESTAURANTS,
>THE LAW SAYS CANNOT BE IN THE TABLE.

They fluoridate the salt here also. It's possible to get unfluoridated salt at the grocery store (for now), but you have to go looking for it. Count on the salt you get at restaurants to be the fluoridated variety. So bring your own.

>Are uruguays fooled into consuming low fat foods? YES, DO
>YOU THINK IT IS NOT RIGHT? WHY?

There's a school of thought that says we need fats (including cholesterol) for good brain health.

It seems like they dropped the food chemicals on these people all at once, and they're noticeably fatter just in the last three years. Unfortunately they're all being told and believing the same old lies... calories in, calories out... you just need to exercise more... here, drink this diet coke. So I'm sure the diet food scam will be very effective here.


>Are GMO crops prevalent there? Are the packages labeled?
>YES GMO ARE PREVALENT AND PACKAGES JUST STARTED
>TO SHOW THAT INFO. MOSTLY NOT AND THERE ARE VERY
>FEW REGULATIONS AND THEY ARE BARELY ENFORCED.

I picked up a can of Del Monte spaghetti sauce about a year ago. I was able to compare the US ingredient list to the spanish language ingredient list sticker. It was like two different products. The spanish list didn't include any of the harmful chemicals. So I wouldn't trust ingredient labels here at all for the reasons carlitos says.

>Do the fields get sprayed with herbicides there, or is more like
>the way the Amish do it... By weeding? SPRAYED A LOT.

I haven't see crop dusting here with planes. But they're spayed with turbine sprayers pulled by tractors, or backpack sprayers.

They're in love with fungicides and glyphosate here.


>Do people recycle? NO, THEY DON'T

They burn plastic in the trash pile also. So hold you breath when you drive through the smoke cloud at the edge of town.

>Is seed saving outlawed like in the u.s.? NOT YET, BUT RICE,
>SOY AND CORN IS.

I didn't know this. But I doubt it's enforced on the individual level.

>I know a tetnus shot is required to enter Uruguay and I recall
>someone saying to have it done in the u.s. Why? Any other
>opinions on this? YOU CAN HAVE IT HERE FOR FREE, OR
>YOU CAN JUST NOT HAVE IT (I KNOW PEOPLE WILL
>DISAGREE WITH ME AND I AM NOT GOING TO FIGHT BACK
>HERE IN THE FORUM BUT I CAN EXPLAIN IF NECESSARY)

Yeah, this is a hot topic. Remember that things aren't enforced very uniformly.


>Is bringing food over the boarder from Brazil any kind of issue?
>YES IF YOU PASS THROUGH CUSTOMS, IN RIVERA
>CUSTOMS IN +or- 5 kms INLAND.

If you live in Rivera, you can shop in Brazil all the time.

>I hope this post doesn't come off as snobbish. After loosing my
>dad to cancer, I have become very food conscious and grow
>much of my own food for safety reasons.

Many expats here believe the way you do. For the locals, they mostly just want cheap.

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Raw milk is definitely delicious but you could always get raw milk and pasteurize it yourself. Just keep it at a temp of 145 degrees for 30 minutes…

From the CDC: You’re 150 times more likely to get foodborne illness from raw milk than pasteurized milk. Pasteurization kills typhoid fever, tuberculosis, diphtheria, brucellosis, as well as Salmonella, E. coli, and Listeria, which are responsible for causing numerous foodborne illnesses. The bacteria in raw milk can be especially dangerous to people with weakened immune systems, older adults, pregnant women, and children.

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My friend in La Paloma just found raw milk down the street from her... I have not tried to get it here in Montevideo but I will ask at the health food stores and let you know.

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I see we're hearing from the government plant again. How are things over at the NSA?

>Raw milk is definitely delicious but you could always get raw
>milk and pasteurize it yourself. Just keep it at a temp of 145
>degrees for 30 minutes…

Do not pasteurize your milk. Pasteurization is a good idea if you're drinking factory milk from the store because each liter of loving goodness contains blood, pus, and cow feces. When your own cow gets mastitis, you stop drinking the milk. When a factory cow gets mastitis, they hook up the suction device and suck it all out, mixing it with the milk. Don't worry, pasteurization will fix that right up.

If you have your own cow, you'll of course be much cleaner than this, and will care about the health of your cow.

>You have to pasteurize it to keep it from making you sick. But if
>you have your own cow, there's no reason why you can't

So wait, are you suggesting that people re-pasteurize store bought milk or pasteurize the milk from their own cow?


>From the CDC: You’re 150 times more likely to get foodborne
>illness from raw milk than pasteurized milk.

Lies.


>Pasteurization kills
>typhoid fever, tuberculosis, diphtheria, brucellosis, as well as
>Salmonella, E. coli, and Listeria, which are responsible for
>causing numerous foodborne illnesses. The bacteria in raw milk
>can be especially dangerous to people with weakened immune
>systems, older adults, pregnant women, and children.

Of course, the vast majority of raw milk doesn't contain these things because the vast majority of people with their own dairy cows don't do gross things with the milk.

Pasteurizing milk destroys anything good that was in it and turns it into something more like a cheese product. Don't consume dead food. It's that simple.

brian

PS: So we're crazy for overreacting about Jade Helm, but it's totally ok to overreact about raw milk.

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The CDC? That's a laugh. Aren't they the ones who lost a lot of deadly pathogens? It's the CDC that will kill us off not raw milk.

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How irresponsible for some people like “Carlitos” to be saying that the beef in Uruguay has hormones and antibiotics. According to an “El Pais” article (link provided) Uruguay is the only country in the world where the use of hormones or any other substance that promotes growth is prohibited. This is the case since 1962 and it’s strictly enforced. I understand that that goes for any other animal.

Also to say GMO are widespread is a total misrepresentation. Soy is the only product that is very difficult to produce without GMO seeds. Corn doesn’t need to, there is no advantage in using GMO so most Uruguayans don’t use it.

http://www.elpais.com.uy/economia/rurales/buscan-valorizar-carne-hormonas.html

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CrazyFarmer - you know what they say... Persuade, Change, Influence!!!

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She said, livestock not Hereford, besides only someone that knows people that has cattle and vets knows what they give to their animals and how enforced regulations are. Go to a carniceria and buy meet, are going to be able to tell there is no hormones nor antibiotics? how?, if you have a cattle and they are seek what would you do? kill and burn them? may be you do that, but some people just kill and sell them. One thing is reading the papers and other is to see the stuff and talk to people.
Now you want to call me irresponsible fine, I call you fool. A lot of people here is just like you, they want to mislead other to think this is paradise, but it is not, may it is better than other places, but it is full of problems and most of the people that come, bring money and hopes and leave hopeless and sometimes penniless.

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Carlitos:

You say “only someone that knows people that has cattle and vets knows what they give to their animals”, my question, do you know enough cattle owners and vets to accuse a whole country of using illegal means to artificially grow their animals?

You continue: “if you have a cattle and they are seek what would you do? kill and burn them?”, give medication to an animal that needs it is very far from giving it an illegal substance with the only purpose of making it big and fat.

You call me a fool because like other people I try to mislead people into thinking Uruguay is paradise. Well, I dare you to quote me on an occasion when tried to do that.

Speaking about misleading and giving wrong information.

Is tetanus shot required to enter Uruguay? The answer should have been “NO”, Period. Your answer was misleading. In reality it’s required to work, go to school or apply for residency but I’m sure there are ways around it if someone don’t want it.

Are GMOs prevalent? Your answer YES, Correct answer, NO. Again I have no idea where you get your information to speak for the whole country.

I could go on and on but I think I made my point.

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Guys, guys, hold on…

I can tell we all have strong opinions about this topic. What could be closer to home then someone poising or not poising our food? BUT, this conversation would be so much more productive if we refrain from attacking each other.

For example Ed NYC, please, go back and read your statement to Carlitos about his being irresponsible. Your post was excellent, informative and backed up with a link. If you had removed the first sentence then the topic would not be going into this hostile direction. Everyone, it's not productive to squabble. I assume we're all on the same side, right? Don't we all just want peace?

Oh yea, one more thing… I am one of the male gender.

Thank you kindly,

W.

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W.

Sorry for the she then.

Regards

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Hi Carlitos,

There's no way anyone could have know. I should have done a better job introducing myself rather than make everyone guess. No apology required, but thank you anyway.

About the low fat foods: I read a book that really opened my eyes and changed my life: THE SCIENCE OF SKINNY. In the book the author explains how it's preservatives that cause people to gain weight, not fat. The bottom line is you should use Olive oil on salads and coconut oil when cooking. Avoid all other fats because they are processed and are actually trans fats... Except maybe bacon fat and real butter.

Low fat foods substitute fat with sugar and highly processed chemicals ingredients. These are the real problem. We could all be so much healthier if we could get a soap box (method of communication) to educate people on a large scale like a TV show or something.

I also know how we could have healthy animals without antibiotics. The governments and scientists know of this better way, but for some reason they are withholding the truth.

Link: http://www.fao.org/fileadmin/templates/agns/pdf/jecfa/cta/68/Acidified_Sodium_Chlorite.pdf

The paper is about dipping, but when the animals drink the solution: poof. No more sickness. I know this to be true.

Peace be with you,

W

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>Are GMOs prevalent? Your answer YES, Correct answer, NO.
>Again I have no idea where you get your information to speak for
>the whole country.

Sorry, I live here. They're prevalent, both grown here and through imported food.

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I made a mistake in my last post. When I said: I know that to be true, I wish I had said: I speculate that this might be true. I really don't know enough about it to make a statement like that. Sorry in advance.

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I have worked in the meat industry for over 20 years and the last 12 years buying beef from argentina, brasil and Uruguay. As a generalisatio Uruguay beef, and lamb would be one of the most natural system you would find in the world. Extensively raised on grassland (average 4 years from birth to slaughter).
Hormones would add nothing to this system of raising cattle only costs!!

Similarly antibiotic useage again is a cost that would only be a last resort to save a sick animal.

You are more likely to have more veterinary treatments used on a farm where the owner has one or 2 cattle than a commercial farm that has 2000 cattle. If a small farmer loses one animal through illness this is a big loss to his business. A large farm will expect mortalities and will not "rush" into giving treatments.

It should also be noted that therapuetic useage of medication is allowed for organic certified animals too!


There are feedlots develping in Uruguay which do give potential for feed that includes medicated additives. The beef from these cattle are produced and exported to meet a specific EU quota that command a premium so would not be something readily on sale locally.

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My interpretación of the word “prevalent” in this case is: dominant and widespread. From what I can gather GMOs are far from being prevalent in Uruguay. I agree that they are legal to use and fairly available. Also let’s make clear that I’m talking exclusively of GMOs, not pestisides or any other quemicals. The two main uses are in the cultivation of Soy and Maize. Both of these are almost entirely for export.

The diet of the average Uruguayan consists of:

Meats of all kinds (non GMOs no hormones),

Fruits and vegetables (non GMOs) exept soy and maize

Wheat (non GMO) from here we get most of the bread and pastas which are very popular in Uruguay.

Potatoes, sweet potatoes and similar (non GMOs)

Conclusión: As far as I can tell you can easily avoid GMOs in Uruguay.
I include a list of GMOs products in Uruguay and again it’s extremely easy to substitute for a GMO free brand.

http://www.somosamigosdelatierra.org/07_alimentacion/transgenicos/transgenicos3.htm

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>There are feedlots develping in Uruguay which do give potential
>for feed that includes medicated additives. The beef from these
>cattle are produced and exported to meet a specific EU quota
>that command a premium so would not be something readily on
>sale locally.

I have, with my own eyes, seen feed lot beef advertised at butcher shops in Uruguay as though it were a selling point. They even use the english words "feed lot" on the sign.

Also, the Uruguayans have a spectacularly bad diet full of processed foods and coca-cola. They consume huge amounts of bleached flour, aspartame, HFCS, food dyes, MSG, Nitrates, and preservatives.

Much of the food is imported from outside of Uruguay, and this includes food imported from the US and Argentina, two of the most heavy GMO users in the world, as well as China.

So yes, it's possible to avoid GMO food here. But it's also possible to avoid it in the US. The vast majority of Uruguayans are clueless about food safety and avoiding chemical additives. And they're blowing up like balloons because of it. Uruguayans eat cheap, not healthy.

I'll leave the topic of gluten and frankenstein wheat for another day.

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Although I won't be calling off the drones and disconnecting the listening devices quite yet... I would have to agree with Loco on this one. That last post was legit.

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Starting on April 2015 by law all products containing GMOs have to be disclosed in the labels.

Brian said “Much of the food is imported from outside of Uruguay” , with all due respect this statement is wrong from the first word to the last. I’d say with all confidence that 99.99999% of the food consumed in Uruguay is locally produced.

Brian line: “the Uruguayans have a spectacularly bad diet full of processed foods and coca-cola”. Isn’t that the definition of stereotyping?

From the eyes of an expat might be difficult to understand what a local eats on a daily bases if you assume that a restaurant menu is the footprint of their diet. In other words, there are a whole array of home made meals that you’d never find in restaurants. All sorts of stews made with fresh ingredients from the feria with “zero” preservatives.

I live in NYC but I’m very often in Uruguay and I always miss home made Uruguayan foods. It’s up to you to eat healthy or not, the options are there. Unfortunately in my case in NYC the options are not always there, strawberries, peaches, tomatoes don’t taste the same or don’t taste at all here.

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Yes, after reading CrazyFarmer's last post again it does come across really insensitive and viciously stereotypical. For someone so PC he's really gone off the deep-end.

Though, I am reminded of the time I was at Tienda Inglesa and I was looking at the items in this woman's shopping cart. I was thinking, "Damn, she's eating REALLY healthy" but it doesn't seem to be the norm, not rare though.

The aspartame remark... True. lots of Zero, light, and diet type foods. The ballooning of the locals, eh, I don't see it. Most Uruguayans are still much thinner than the typical unhealthy, obese, overeating Americans (and there children) who gorge themselves on buffets and super-sized McDonald's menu items.

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Ok then what is drinking copious amounts of coke? It is a US commodity and they drink it over healthier choices. They are overweight by any country standards and that worries me they don't realize the harm sugar and HFCS does to them. So keep it civil, folks, Brian does see the obesity I see too. Processed foods too, but I suppose you find processed foods healthy?

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>Starting on April 2015 by law all products containing GMOs
>have to be disclosed in the labels.

I'll believe it when I see it. I don't expect this to be enforced here at all.


>Brian said “Much of the food is imported from outside of Uruguay”
>, with all due respect this statement is wrong from the first word
>to the last. I’d say with all confidence that 99.99999% of the food
>consumed in Uruguay is locally produced.

How often do they put peas, corn, or mushrooms on a chivito? Even though they could grow all of these things here, they get them from a can. Most of these cans appear to be imported either from argentina or china.

I've also watched as the ingredient lists on their locally produced food have gone from simple healthy ingredients, to chemical food in just three years.

>Brian line: “the Uruguayans have a spectacularly bad diet full
>of processed foods and coca-cola”. Isn’t that the definition of
>stereotyping?

oh please. Cultures exist. To point out a feature of a culture isn't stereotyping.

>From the eyes of an expat might be difficult to understand
>what a local eats on a daily bases if you assume that a
>restaurant menu is the footprint of their diet.

Yes, because I'm obviously so arrogant as to think that all uruguayans eat at restaurants just like I always do.

Do you think that just maybe, my attitudes come from my interactions with real actual uruguayans?

>In other words, there are a whole array of home made meals
>that you’d never find in restaurants. All sorts of stews made
>with fresh ingredients from the feria with “zero” preservatives.

On one occasion, I watched a uruguayan friend of ours make a fruit salad. She chopped up all these nice fruits, and I was really looking forward to having some. Then at the end, she put flavored powder in it. I looked at the package.... primary ingredient: aspartame. It also had some "natural flavors" and preservatives. Like I said, clueless.

(I can't believe I have to say this) I'm obviously not saying that all uruguayans eat this way. What I'm saying is that there are a lot of poor uruguayans who eat cheap.

>I live in NYC but I’m very often in Uruguay and I always miss
>home made Uruguayan foods. It’s up to you to eat healthy or
>not, the options are there.

And many don't know or don't care. Uruguayans are eating american style breakfast cereal now. How do I know? Because nearly all of the grocery stores have them now. And they wouldn't have them if they didn't sell. There was almost none of this when we arrived three years ago.

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Letsmove, I believe the coke here is made from sugar. I may be wrong though.

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Made from azucars. Notice the s at the end. It means various sweeteners not including aspartame. It has HFCS. If it says azucar without the s, then it is just sugar.

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To anyone who is interested HFCS is JMAF on a Spanish label.

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I've seen it both ways.

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Ahhh... that makes sense. What about Booger Sugar?

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>To anyone who is interested HFCS is JMAF on a Spanish label.

They frequently spell it out also... Jarabe de Maiz con Alto Fructosa

Personally, I wouldn't believe ingredient labels here in Uruguay anyway. Either there's a loophole in the law the companies are using, or they're simply lying because of poor enforcement. But I know for a fact that prepared foods here contain ingredients that don't show up on the spanish ingredient list. And the ingredient label stickers that are put on the can when ingredient labels are in another language often show different ingredients.

Also, the puree de tomate you use in your cooking, the uruguayan one that lists only tomatoes and water as ingredients... where did they get the water? From OSE? Does it contain fluoride, chlorine, and who knows what else?

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Coca Cola quit using that a long time ago

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Brian:
Judging by your responses I gotta say that I failed to communicate and make my point. I have an idea thought; I’d say people (not only Uruguayans) have two different choices when they decide to have a meal. Choice 1 “Fun Meal”, Choice 2 “Every day Meal”. In my last post I tried to explain that Uruguayans “Every day Meals” are not based on restaurant menus (Fun Meals). Uruguayans at home don’t eat cheeseburgers, chivitos (with all those toppings you mention), pizza, churros, etc.

“Fun Meals” include: restaurants food, birthday parties, weddings, Sunday’s asado with friends, holidays, etc.

When I’m in Uruguay I prefer to have dinner on friends’ houses instead of going to restaurants. That’s why I know that fast food “Fun Meals” are not what most people eat on an every day basis and the food by all standards is very fresh and healthy. I understand they’re not as careful or savvy as you seem to be, but then again, who is?

Your statement “the Uruguayans have a spectacularly bad diet full of processed foods and coca-cola”, whether a culture observation or a stereotype sentence is still far from the truth.

The chivito toppings and some other imported can foods from china still fail to qualify as “most foods are imported”.

Brian line: “Uruguayans are eating American style breakfast cereal now.” OK, I got you, is not a stereotype sentence but “pointing out a feature of a culture”. Now wouldn’t be more accurate to say “some” Uruguayans or “a lot”, or “many”, instead of throwing them all in the same basket?

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Have you seen the cereal isle at Tienda Inglesa? Pretty sad... None of the Uruguayans I am around eat cereal and I actually quit eating it myself. Of course I haven't lived here for generations like Crazyfarmer to see the plethora of cultural changes taking place.

Letsmove. Have you tried Paso de Los Toros yet? Best refresco EVER!

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ok, you're right. They're all health nuts and eat healthy food all the time.

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This thread is awesome. Thank you guys.

The picture that is being painted could not be better: Some people eat well most of the time. Poorer people eat lower quality foods and, unfortunately, the trend might be heading toward more highly processed foods. Meanwhile the government has passed a law which would appear to help.... If it were enforced and if people knew why it matters... Perfectly cloudy just like the u.s..

It's not a paradise of perfect food. If you are aware of the issues, you should be able to eat well, but it will cost more money and more effort. In the u.s. It's foolish for me to grow my own food because food is cheap. Regardless of that, I choose to do it anyway, but it really cuts into my free time; I compost. I save seeds. I use my greenhouse all winter for greens. I make my own granola cereal. I brew my own beer. I have five chickens for eggs. I make my shampoo and conditioner. I avoid tooth paste and fluoride as well as antibiotics and vaccinations.

Uruguay is not utopia unless you exert the effort. I guess I'm young enough to beleive that somehow we can make Uruguay better by focusing on the foods. It's a primary export and it's not totally screwed up yet. Now that we know better, maybe we can apply the lessons we learned in the u.s. to Uruguay?

Prosperity to all,
W.

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10abuse

Bravo! Well put. Your input here will be greatly appreciated.

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00abuse

Sellers of food up in Artigas recently sent the Department of Agriculture a letter complaining about the unrestricted importation of fruit, vegetables and raw meat of dubious origin coming across the border from Brazil and not being stopped or inspected and then being sold in Uruguay.

They describe Artigas as being the gateway for smuggling from Argentina and Brazil and are concerned about the risk to plant and animal health in Uruguay.

An unrelated article also discusses the importation of shoes containing high levels of lead and cadmium from China and that the standards here for this are lower than other countries.

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00abuse

You mention you have lost your father of cancer and yet you drink milk? Any milk? You're concerned about "people recycling" yet what your body recycles you give too little attention. I think you should study further on what is actually "healthy nutrition" for both children and adults. Best regards

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00abuse

ziggiedobe, are you suggesting by drinking raw milk that you can get cancer? Really?

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00abuse

I've been to Uruguay a couple of times. One of the things that struck me was how clean their food supply is. Their cattle graze and are not just eating corn in a feed lot. Meats tastes like they should.

I have an issue with gluten and frankly I found Uruguay to be a near paradise. Here in the US, many restaurants have no clue what I can or cannot eat. Not the case down in Uruguay. Food products are much better labeled down there.

Produce looks like it came out of a real garden, not the waxy shiny appearance of produce in an American market.

I'd take the food down there any day compared to the poisons sold here in the US.

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00abuse

hi Future Expat, thanks for your post, it is very helpful... we have been here almost 2 years and I can still remember how great the eggs tasted when we first got here... my husband was a chef and restaurant owner in the states and he says the ingredients here are superior. Some of my friends scared me about GMOS, there are not many but they were under the impression all soy and all round (not Roma or cherry) tomatos are GMOs, but recently we made friends with a neighbor who is an agronimist, actually with an advanced degree from UC Davis, and he consults agricultural ventures here and reassured me about a lot of tomatoes... I am now pursuing this source of information to get better informed and have a more comprehensive idea of the practices and use here of chemicals etc.

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00abuse

Hi futureexpat1

> Food products are much better labeled down there.

In my experience, the labels are frequently wrong, incomplete, or missing here. Next time you're at the grocery store, pick up a can of Del Monte brand spaghetti sauce in a can. See if you can find one where the spanish ingredient label doesn't cover the english ingredient label... and prepare to be shocked.

While I believe the food quality here is better than the US, it's declining here. The chemicals that took 30 years to develop in the US were dropped on these people all at once just within the last 3 years or so. And you can see it in their weight. Uruguayans are getting heavier by the minute. And they're lying to them about why just like they did the americans.

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00abuse

My reference to better labeling was referring to gluten. I was not referring to other ingredients.

They have a symbol down there which can be found on gluten free items and others are marked with the expression "sin T.A.C.C." which means without wheat, oats, rye or barley".

I can't vouch for other aspects of labeling in Uruguay.

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00abuse

I would seriously expect them to say those things aren't in it, then add an artificial source of gluten anyway. I have zero trust for food labels in any country now.

Also, I think gluten free is little more than a marketing gimmick. And by that I mean that the food producers see it that way. You as a person might find great benefit in not consuming gluten. But the food producers make gluten free food for one reason: money. People are willing to buy it so they make it. If they can get you to buy it while being disingenuous so that it's cheaper to produce, who cares. You bought it.

Maybe I'm cynical. But I just have no trust for food producers of any kind anymore. I say this as I watch my neighbor douse his lettuce with huge quantities of petrochemical fertilizers, fungicide, and glyphosate.

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00abuse

Thanks Crazy for such realistic eye opening post!

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00abuse

How much does the average dairy cow sell for? I definitely want 1-2 cows in milk along with a few goats.

How much is chicken feed?

Can I get coffee beans there? I need to bring my own sea salt with me? Like a 50 lb sack? :)

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00abuse

That makes me sad to read :(

I grow almost all of my own food and meat in the us because I have celiac disease and can not have gluten.

I spent 3.5 years in the hospital due to it. But in the city we get chemtrails from the planes overhead that give me a sore throat and cough.

I dream of coming to pdd to grow my own food and live in peace and not be poisioned.

Am I foolish to think this?

I'm coming to pdd to get away from gmo and meddling inconsiderate neighbors.

I want to make cheeses and breads, yummy things to sell to expats. Come get your eggs, veggies, milk and meat from the crazy American ganja lady thing.. like I do here in the us.

Over regulation of the mj industry here is bringing me to pdd.. bad idea?

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00abuse

You can find and buy a pregnant Jersey for $1000 USD. Goats are available but someone else can tell you the cost. Chicken feed, I buy whole corn for $360 peso for 50 kg. You can find coffee bean is certain stores but it is not common, Yes, do bring your sea salt, Most salt here has fluoride and/or iodine. Sea salt can be found but it is very expensive.

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$1000 for a dairy cow is what I would expect. I'd recommend a jersey. We've had both Jersey and Holstein cows. The Holstein could eat grass, but the milk would smell and taste like grass. The Jersey made higher quality milk with a higher fat content, and could eat grass instead of cow ration without affecting the milk. The Jersey makes less milk than the Holstein. But It was still a lot.

I'd also recommend a fenced area with a building for the cow(s). In the building, I'd have a milking stand, light, sink, water heater, pressure pump, and a hose. I'd put a concrete slab for humans and a dirt/straw floor for the cows. I'd also have rain gutters feeding a bathtub for water if you don't have a permanent source, and the spigot over the tub to make refilling easy. And it would be big enough to lock up the cows inside at night, maybe with even an alarm depending on where you live. Cows have a tendency to "walk away" in the middle of the night here. If I were to do it again, I'd have two Jerseys, the aforementioned building and fence, and a milking machine so I wouldn't have to deal with the small Jersey teats.

We have goats, but I don't think they're worth the trouble. My wife really likes them though.

Sheep are tasty. But you need good fences. They also stand around all day discussing creative ways to die.

>Am I foolish to think this?

Not at all. At least not for now. When you pick a place to live, you want to be surrounded by cow pasture. If you're surrounded by grapes, fruit trees, or row crops, you'll be sprayed by your neighbors instead of sprayed by airplanes.

>I'm coming to pdd to get away from
>gmo and meddling inconsiderate
>neighbors.

You want a big piece of land in the middle of nowhere. Our neighbors are definitely the meddling inconsiderate types.

>I want to make cheeses and breads,
>yummy things to sell to expats.
>Come get your eggs, veggies, milk
>and meat from the crazy American
>ganja lady thing.. like I do here in the
>us.

The americans will tell you they want to buy these things. Then when it comes time to sell, everyone will be too lazy to come find your place. You could easily peddle your wares at the expat meetings though. But this means you bring things to them. The expat buy and sell group might be a good place to sell your things also. But again, lazy and distance are incompatible.

>Over regulation of the mj industry
>here is bringing me to pdd.. bad
>idea?

Govco wants to regulate it here also. If you're going to go "by the book", you'll need a license to grow. And you can't just sell to anyone since it will be sold only in pharmacies. They also track the ID numbers of buyers I guess to bug people who are consuming too much.

In the US, there's so much hysteria surrounding this subject, that there's big budgets that include swat teams and helicopters with high tech equipment looking for grow houses or houses leaking certain wavelengths of light from their basement windows, etc. None of that exists here, including the hysteria.... like I said, a big piece of land in the middle of nowhere.

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00abuse

I agree totally.

I pay about $450 pesos for big bag of racion para ponedoras molido al piso. It's a generic ground chicken feed intended for egg type chickens.

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Mercado Libre is a kind of craigslist type website in Uruguay, here is what I found for 'dairy cows for sale'... first I translated that into Spanish using Google Translate ('vacas lecheras en venta') then typed it into Google search bar with Uruguay behind it... got this page as well as others... you can do this for lots of subjects and will find a lot of information... http://listado.mercadolibre.com.uy/otras-mascotas/venta-de-vacas-lecheras-holando

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And substitute Jersey for holando and you get the following:

http://listado.mercadolibre.com.uy/venta-de-vacas-lecheras-jersey#D[A:venta-de-vacas-lecheras-jersey]

I am like the Jersey milk cow over the Holando as they are smaller. They are like puppy dogs, They are so friendly and tranquil. Females, that is. The best milk and more cream than the holando.

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10abuse

I had hoped for jersey cows. So cows will walk away even after being tagged and branded? Hmm.. looks like I'll need to bring electrical shock fencing and building a barn and setting up my field cameras just like in the city here.

I can build soils relatively easily if I have the right number of critters. I pay .58 cents a lb for my custom chicken feed here ** i have celiac disease and gluten in the regular chicken feed made me sick from cross contamination **

I brew bokashi to jump start my compost here.. I do go through quite a bit of straw, hay and feed here.

A few of my friends are now starting to plan leaving colorado to move to pdd... it sounds like as long as we're just growing for ourselves and some to share we'll be fine. I may have to give up indoor growing in favor of several greenhouses and outdoir grows.

I have found my big narragansett turkeys a very good deterrent for thieves. They are big and mean and attack everyone that is not me or my bf lol. Too bad they go to freezer camp this weekend. They will be delicious!

I can hardly wait to visit in april/may. I might end up staying though ;)

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00abuse

Even prize bulls have been shot and sold as meat here.
The police tracked down some of the thieves using DNA of the bull but theft of animals is not unheard of.

http://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion/crece-temor-medio-rural-matanza.html

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00abuse

That's awful!!

I think I found a property thanks to @edy :) I need someone to go look at it to make sure it's what I'm needing.

I'll be selling off all my beloved critters, but I can buy 2 pregnant jersey cows and a milk machine for selling just 1 of my ayam cemani or svart honas chickens in the spring.

I guess I'll be hatching a lot soon so I'll have enough rare breed chickens to sell to fund my move :) :) :)

What kind of critter predators do I need to worry about? Here I have foxes, raccoons, skunks, feral cats and dogs and hawks to worry about as well as people.

Are canning jars readily available? 6mm clear plastic to make a high tunnel type of greenhouse

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00abuse

>What kind of critter predators do I
>need to worry about? Here I have
>foxes, raccoons, skunks, feral cats
>and dogs and hawks to worry about
>as well as people.

Neighbors will definitely steal animals here including random people driving down the road.

They have an animal here called a "comadreja". If you look it up in google translate, you get back "weasel". It's not a weasel. It looks like a possum. But it's more aggressive. It could easily take out chickens and especially rabbits.

There are foxes in the really rural areas, but not where we are.

The biggest problem will be stray dogs, or even just the neighbor's dog who gets set loose every night for "protection".

Cats and birds of prey will take little chickens but not full grown chickens.

You're going to lose chickens on a regular basis. Count on it.


>Are canning jars readily available?

Yes. There's a place on Ordonez (also called Propios) called El Granero. They're a great source of foods that can be hard to find. Behind them is a place called Mercado Modelo. Among other things is a shop that sells tools and all kinds of things. They sell canning jars with lids for something like $1 a piece. They won't be as good as ball jars. But they do the job.

>6mm clear plastic to make a high
>tunnel type of greenhouse

Yes, this is really common here. They call it nylon, but it's not nylon. My neighbors have exactly the tunnel greenhouse you're describing.

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00abuse

Wow! I want some of those narragansett turkeys. Been looking for geese as they set up an alarm when intruders come on the property. I find geese all right here and have seen turkeys that seem to be wandering around off peoples property. Big brown ones. Don't know what kind they are. Smuggle in some narragansett turkeys, please. My Jerseys do not wander past the fence which is not electric. But some will test a fence and if the posts are rotted, just maybe that fence will fall down with help from the Jersey.

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00abuse

Turkeys are unbelievably dumb, and may even be more dumb than chickens. A friend of ours had turkeys. She says never again. As an example, they would escape and take one bite out of every tomato on her tomato plants. Also, not enough meat for the quantity of food they eat. And they're sort of like pigs... all that food and work, and when you're done, you get to eat turkey.

Also, a female jersey cow will go to extraordinary lengths to get to male cows when she's in the mood.

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00abuse

Turkeys... my mother helped raised domestic ones when she was a girl and she told me that the domestic ones are really dumb... but the wild ones are smart. She said the domestic ones had it bred out of them. She said they are so dumb that in a heavy rain they will stand there and open their mouths to the sky and they will drown if you don't stop them.

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00abuse

Hahaha Narragansett turkeys are heritage breed turkeys.. so they are considered wild turkeys. They do not seem to eat that much, but it is hard for me to tell as I honestly have probably 100 birds. I go through 100 lbs of chicken feed a week.

The turkeys are still walking around. I will proces them this weekend hopefully. Well, it is almost Thanksgiving. Is there thanksgiving in Uruguay? Or a harvest festival?

@ crazy farmer I like your idea of a utopian place in Uruguay. Is there land near you for sale? I'm thinking a community thing maybe the way I want to go.

We're very hardworking and talented in building and making things. Back in the day I asked my bf to make me sonething to capture the power of butane to use over and iver again to safely make my hash and he did. :) that man could build me a rocket to the moon if he had the materials.

He built each of my chicken pens/coops in less than 1 working day. Built me raised beds for my gardens. Then 7 foot tall fences to keep my chickens out of my gardens. Predator proof chicken housing. Lol.. tinkered with my incubators. Put a turbo on the 4matic mercedes station wagon. Super handy!

What are other villages besides pdd that are conducive for sustainable off grid living? I'm not committed to pdd..

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00abuse

>Is there thanksgiving in Uruguay? Or
>a harvest festival?

No. But they've just recently started making turkeys available here. You can get them frozen (I think) at Geant. They also have deli turkey at the Geant deli counter. They're small and expensive.

>@ crazy farmer I like your idea of a
>utopian place in Uruguay. Is there
>land near you for sale? I'm thinking a
>community thing maybe the way I
>want to go.

Where we are was meant as a compromise between rural and close enough to Montevideo to get there easily. My daughter and her husband commute in every day for medical school. And we visit Montevideo frequently. But it's definitely not an ideal location. There are thieves a plenty. And we're too close to our neighbors because our property is an awkward shape. You probably want a place more rural with more space and cows for neighbors.


>We're very hardworking and
>talented in building and making
>things. Back in the day I asked my bf
>to make me sonething to capture
>the power of butane to use over and
>iver again to safely make my hash
>and he did. :) that man could build
>me a rocket to the moon if he had
>the materials.

Being resourceful is priceless here.

>He built each of my chicken
>pens/coops in less than 1 working
>day.

Expect it to take much longer here. :-)

>What are other villages besides pdd
>that are conducive for sustainable
>off grid living? I'm not committed to
>pdd..

We like Minas and Rivera. The cost of living is lower in Rivera (and probably Chuy) because of the proximity to brazil.

brian

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00abuse

Here is an interesting article by a Dr on why is important to know the food you are consuming and where its coming from:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/12/prions-alzheimers-lyme-disease.aspx?e_cid=20151112Z1_DNL_art_1&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20151112Z1&et_cid=DM90130&et_rid=1211920354

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00abuse

We processed 1 turkey this past weekend and 1 chicken (cornish x broiler meat chicken.. the super fast growing grocery store chicken breed here in the usa) had a heart attack and died.

We're sending off a few more chickens and the other turkey this weekend before I have to go to court over my neighbor that we USED to be good friends with for 6 years apparently went off his medication and my roosters with crow reduction surgeries are bothering him from my basement. Yes, it is that ridiculous. He rents and we own.

The buying of the property next door is going well.

After discussing it with my bf more, he pointed out subsistence farming is not retirement. So, we want to still grow our own food and cannabis and maybe have a few goats and cows for cheese/milk.., or just buy a house or land 15-20 minute walk from the beach and just have our gardens and really really retire.

I'm 42 & he is 39.. I'm just over the whole suburban sprawl, blizzard conditions, and constant traffic life here. We're young enough to enjoy "retirement " & between all our properties being rented out could live nicely on our rental income.

I'm looking forward to visiting Uruguay and possibly meeting some of you and finding a suitable place to settle down in.

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00abuse

You will need to look into growing cannabis here.
From what I have read, you can have three plants if you are a citizen or permanent resident over 18 years.
You must register with the government which gives them the right to come and inspect your plants to make sure you are not producing more than the amount of product allowed each month. The product is for your own use and you cannot sell any of it.

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00abuse

>We're young enough to enjoy "retirement " & between all our properties being rented out could live nicely on our rental income. <
Apparently you have not checked with the UY department of immigration to see if rental income is an acceptable form of income for residency especially since it can be very variable.
You mention that your bones are looking for warm sun and beaches. You need to be aware that according to this forum UY can be cold in the winter (in the 30's Fahrenheit and even lower), is humid and houses are not well insulated..
There are other places in South and central America which are warm all year round and have fine beaches as well where you can also farm. Not to mention they are much cheaper.
I can see you are fed up having those storms, neighbors and traffic.
Good luck and keep us informed if you find a place where you can avoid all these things.

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00abuse

kimbo47. Could you please explain to people on this forum seeking answers to questions about Uruguay that you do not live in Uruguay nor have you ever been to Uruguay yet you present yourself as someone with astute knowledge of this country. Thank you.

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00abuse

I hesitate to say this because last time I said something similar to Kimbo he was highly insulted but I agree and I often find the same problem. He does not live here, in fact has never been here, yet frequently he's giving advice to potential visitors/residents. Is this not strange?... also he often suggests people try other countries instead which I find strange too. What if someone said "Kimbo, there are other South American countries where this kind of behavior would be much more welcome and I suggest you explore those" how would he feel? It just sounds rude and condescending to me.

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Well I stopped responding to Kimbo's messages when he said that the 10 bucks I was charging then per hour to help expats around was far too much and blablabla, I am now charging 12 and I am doing alright. That motivates me to provide a high quality service and that's what matters for me and for my clients. Now. I understand Kimbo is not a resident here and If I well remember the closest he's been from Uruguay was Buenos Aires. Having said that, I appreciate his researches and information. I have not found any incorrect information so far. He has a huge advantage over many, He is a native spanish speaker, One does not need to have an experience to be an expert in some facts, Reading and cross referencing information is enough. Let me use an extreme example. I've never been in a war. But will all the images and things I see about wars, I am sure I don't want to have that experience to be able to know in fact about wars. And Please ladies, don't get me wrong on this. I appreciate your presence and advises.
good luck.

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00abuse

Unfortunately, I have seen where kimbo will refute expat's experiences here with his 'opinion' which misleads people who want to know about Uruguay and what
to expect. I find it disingenuous that he says our experiences and reporting of these experiences are false. I concede he asks a lot of great questions and also reiterates information from past forum subjects to save expats the trouble of explaining a topic repeatedly. However, he should not trump experiences with
his opinion. It misleads.

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00abuse

>Unfortunately, I have seen where kimbo will refute expat's experiences here with his 'opinion' which misleads people who want to know about Uruguay and what
to expect.<
I fail to see your point! If anyone is misleading is your post with inaccurate, misleading and inflammatory information.
If anything I have done the CONTRARY always praising the good folks in this forum and specifically congratulated Morrell for the excellent knowledge on UY and Crazyfarmer for his deep dissertation in world affairs and how it affects UY. Above all for being a straight shooter and stating the THRUTH not a rosy picture. Also Carlitos for his honesty and UY citizen point of view and OPINIONS.. All I know about UY I have learned on this excellent forum so the only thing I can do is refer newbies to the great postings on this forum so they can learn like I have, which is exactly what I have been doing. So letsmove, I challenge you to point to a posting where I have refuted expats experiences on this forum and misled newbies.

As far as opinions we all have them and thank God we still have the liberty of free speech whether you agree with others or not. This forum is a free interchange of knowledge and opinions WITHOUT personal attacks and you seem to be the exception.

>I find it disingenuous that he says our experiences and reporting of these experiences are false<

Again I challenge you to indicate a posting of mine where I say the experiences of expats are false. By the way who is OUR? Is that you and your family or have you been authorized to speak for other expats and put words into their mouth?
Again a broken record stating untrue information. Who is really the mislead-er?

>I concede he asks a lot of great questions and also reiterates information from past forum subjects to save expats the trouble of explaining a topic repeatedly.<

I definitely lead newbies to the great information that has been posted in the past by excellent expats with massive information, not only to save repetition (assuming people will feel like repeating their past postings) but mainly to ensure they can benefit from the same excellent information I have benefited since it may never be re posted and instead get useless posting like yours that do nothing for hungry newbies. Instead of wasting time with personal attacks and disseminating false information why don't you use the time to answer questions especially if you feel like you say. That would be the way to become helpful not by personal attacks. By the way this forum has always been distinguished by an excellent group of knowledgeable, well intended and respectful posters that have not fostered personal attacks which is what makes this posting so prolific and excellent. They know how to exchange ideas, information and opinions w/o attacking others.
The moment you start fomenting personal attacks, people start withdrawing from posting and newbies like myself lose the knowledge and benefits we now get from this forum.

>
However, he should not trump experiences with
his opinion. It misleads.
By the way I have still not decided if I will vote for Trump! lol.
The broken record again! I have never doubted expats personal experiences. They are facts! But I do have and will continue to have opinions and as long as I have the freedom to do so will express them and you and no one will take away that right! By the way that is the reason some of you have expressed in this forum that led you to leave your home to preserve this and other freedoms. Grow up and learn how to exchange ideas and discuss opinions or whatever at a higher level w/o personal attacks.

I can see I must have stepped on your toes with one of my postings, so for that I'm sorry but you can be sure it was not intentional whatever it was.

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to doublekindness:
we live in Punta del Este and i want to reassure you that winters are chilly but NO snow - so a big step up from blizzards! and 3 seasons are fantastic. Also rental income from the USA is acceptable to immigration. That's what my income is. Good luck! You will love Uruguay!

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Kimbo. I have already pointed out to you in a PM one such incident to avoid embarrassing you. But you do need to let people know you are not here nor speaking from personal experience. Sorry you take all this so personally.

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00abuse

I agree this is not personal and I also have found good contributions from Kimbo here. Yet I do have the same sense as letsmove that sometimes it's good common sense but other times it's more personal an opinion... I don't want to get too personal but what I mean is it seems Kimbo is a cautious person, logical, and also has resources to carry out his plans. And no sense of urgency. And his own criteria for what is important. Some people make determinations in other ways and as adults they really need to make those calls for themselves. For example, we came without having visited first. We just moved here. There were times when Kimbo seems to be scolding someone for thinking of doing just that, and in a perfect world yes, but our choice was very thought out and the right one for us, and is working out. So the difference between fact and opinion can get cloudy since people have different ways of operating and adventuring, and what is reckless in one person's world is the proper amount of risk taking in another's... my thought is, stick to the facts and leave them, as adults, to make their own judgement calls on how to proceed. Thanks for staying friendly and keeping this as a discussion rather than a confrontation.

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00abuse

No snow sounds wonderful to me!

We cut and hsul our own wood here to cut down on heating bills so I can run 10k watts in grow lights indoors.

You would be very surprised at how large I have been known to grow cannabis plants indoors and outdoors. :) and I only need enough for me and enough to share.

I'm excited to meet Edy when we come. She has been ever so helpful!

We're planning on using Airbnb for our temporary housing needs for our first visit. It's a trustworthy way of paying for a rental and see reviews and no cash changes hands. One hears stories...

Last year at this time of the year it was-19f here. Right now the wind is whipping furiously pushing another blizzard in.

I could just rent off Airbnb for a bit all over Uruguay, transpirtation is something I'm trying to figure out.

We're hoping to get a good feel in April /May. IF we find somewhere we love we hope to begin a move in October.

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Estimated Carlitos,
I thought private conversations via telephone were private, kind of like attorney client priviliges. Since you decided to make them public i feel I also have the liberty to comment.

YES, i did find your fees high specially when I pay $10 per hour to my handyman and nine to the house cleaning company here in the USA.
I paid a lot less than $10/hr for a guide in Ecuador, Panama, Mexico, Colombia, Nicaragua, Dominican republic and Peru. In Ecuador and Nicaragua I paid $50 for a taxicab all day who also served me as a guide. So Yes based in my experience I found your charge high for ME. I'm in a limited budget and need to control my expenses carefully.

But that does not mean you are not an excellent and honest person! It does not even mean that you are expensive in an ABSOLUTE manner. It just means that measured, based on my experiences, its expensive FOR ME ONLY. As you have pointed out you have others that are paying even more and find your rates acceptable based on THEIR experiences and I'm sure you are giving them the best of you and excellent information coming from a native Uruguayan that also has lived in the USA. They can't do better than that! I I just need to talk to someone just to get some tips and basic info much like on this forum (or expats meetings) without cost or need to hire.
Anyway I don't know what any of this has to do with not answering my queries on this forum which is provided freely by all the good people that generously and uninterested provide excellent information and exchange ideas and opinions. As I always say "two heads are better than one and 3 is even better". That is what makes this forum great to learn from very different others and their experiences and opinions. The final decision is always yours.
Anyway I hope I don't lose your very much appreciated and excellent advice and opinions which can also benefit other reading the forum to learn.
As far as the rest of your post I agree totally even though that info was part of our private conversation.
I do, do exhaustive research and read, among others, some of the info in some of the sites Crazyfarmer has recommended and make sure I have done my thorough homework before I move a finger. I also try to relate what is going on in the world to how it can presently or in the future affect UY or other countries.

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I present myself with the total knowledge I posses not only of UY & willingly share with newbies & others. I don't believe anything I have said is untrue. 85% of what I know about UY I have learned from the good folks on this forum.
I don't think everyone who post on this forum lives in UY, nor does it matter, if they have good knowledge to share or opinions on others post.

Nor do I believe people have presented themselves as residents or not, but if it makes you happy I do not live in UY otherwise I would not be asking questions or referring myself as a newbie looking to acquire information to make an EDUCATED decision about UY. If you had taken the time to read some of my postings you would have seen this information, but I have repeated it for benefit. Its also clearly stated in "About Kimbo47"on this forum.

While we are on the subject you may want to at least identify yourself as where you live and citizenship in the About section of this forum so everyone would know who you are..

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edykizaki
I guess this is pick on Kimbo47 week and some of you are trying to turn this forum into a personality debate based on your opinions. I respect your opinions and information why can't you do the same? How is your post helpful to newbies looking for info on UY?

>He does not live here, in fact has never been here, yet frequently he's giving advice to potential visitors/residents. Is this not strange?<

Not anymore than you living there and continuously asking for advice about the country , its laws and customs. And you don't need to live there to be educated and knowledgeable of other countries and world affairs. This is what I share.
Last time I checked UY was part of the world and affected by what happens there whether you wanted it or not. And others have the right to know before they make a decision. And any info by anyone (living or not in UY) is greatly appreciated, especially by newbies like myself and I try to give back, in the areas I can, not only always receive.
Most of you were educated before you arrived in UY.

>also he often suggests people try other countries instead which I find strange too.<
That is absolutely correct if the country fits the requirement of the poster and I have the knowledge. I would certainly appreciate this info if someone that has experience in another country would share.

You seem to be biased and inflexible about UY and believe its paradise that fits all and period! And if anyone dares to share info or an opinion about somewhere else you would immediately initiate a personal attack.
That is not the purpose of this forum and hopefully others would agree and not nurture this behavior.

>What if someone said "Kimbo, there are other South American countries where this kind of behavior would be much more welcome and I suggest you explore those" how would he feel? It just sounds rude and condescending to me.<

I have lost you here! Seems like you are in an attack mode. You need to define what you mean by "kind of behavior" Is posting a kind of behavior? This does not make any sense.
In any case if I was looking for a specific requirement and someone said we don't have this in UY but I have seen it in Argentina I would be very grateful and I assume others would also.

>It just sounds rude and condescending to me.<

What is IT?? And posting with applicable info or suggestions about other places that may have what someone is looking for can never be rude or condescending!

You said it right TO ME! (edykizaki)

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edykizaki,
let me first tell you I use the forum to educate myself about UY and share with others what I can in subjects I have knowledge, not for PERSONAL ATTACKS!
Secondly your whole posting is criticizing others opinions when in reality the posting is full of all YOUR OWN OPINIONS .
> Kimbo does not have a sense of urgency, seems to be scolding someone, etc , etc. ALL YOUR OPINIONS!
Of course everyone needs to make their own decision but that does not preclude receiving information or advice (not opinions). I never have received any negative comments from posters I have recommended to visit the country same as many other posters have. This seems to bother you because you did different. And I will continue to do so because I believe its good advice one I have exercised in other countries which have helped me tremendously. A picture is worth a thousand words. It wasn't till I visited a specific country that I woke up to the reality not the rosy picture others had been painting including reputable magazines. And the reverse was also something I experienced

I have no idea of what you are talking about stating "facts and opinions can get cloudy"? They seem very clear and different to me! Also they are different from advice. I have advised people to visit the country to get the whole picture. How is that an opinion? I believe you are so biased an into your own OPINIONS that you get get confused easily and choose to attack personally.
I congratulate you on your decision to move w/o visiting the country and how well its working out for you but i will bet you that someone on this forum or somewhere else recommended you visit the country before deciding to move. You chose differently and i respect that, same as you should respect what anybody else decides as we are all different and have different goals and needs.

I hope you will continue to post in this forum good usable and honest information for the newbies and refrain from any personal attack that contributes nothing and I'm sure nobody wants to read.

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Hi Kimbo, thanks, you make some good points. I do stand behind my post. Moving on.

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Kimbo- dince you mentioned it, what are other south american counties that are easy to kove to from the us?

Keep in mind, I have a DUI **driving under the influence of alcohol ** & this prevents me from visiting much less moving to another country.


I also grow cannabis. I do not want to go to jail for growing a plant.

Uruguay is the only country I have found that I feel good about retiring to.

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Double,
in my travels i never looked at how the specifics you mention would affect entry into the country. Having said that , i don't believe the DUI would show up in an FBI criminal report and if it did i would think that would be easy to explain specially if you are not going to drive. As far as cannabis i have no idea but if you had a large piece of land unless you were selling it or getting stoned i don't think anyone would give a dam.

Anyway if UY its ok with DUI'S arrests and growing Cannabis i would recommend you go there. Some other countries you have to be squeaky clean to be admitted.
And you certainly don't want to go to jail for growing a plant.

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@letsmove & @Kimbo. I agree with both, with letsmove on the account that any indirect info should be disclosed as indirect, however, any valid information, whether direct or hearsay, will still be valid. Lastly, even direct, personal experience carries a high degree of subjectivism.
I value the information found in this forum more than Wikipedia.

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Hello,

It's not snobbish!
You've (very) good questions!

Best regards,

Eduard Lid

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