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Buying a house

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Daphniefluff
  2/13/2017 17:50 EST

Hello out there

We are a retired couple hoping to move to Ireland in the next year. My husband was born in Dublin, I'm British, so hopefully no problems there, however, I have read of people having so, so many problems buying a house. We won't need a mortgage, so one hurdle we dont need to negociate.

If you have had problems buying a home, can you outline (I am not asking for personal details) the problems, encountered, and how you have overcome them.

One issue we might have is we have a very poor credit history in the U.K. (a crooked accountant screwed us real bad) but will need an Irish bank account,

So those if you with experience, we would really love to hear your stories.

FlowerFairy
  2/13/2017 19:05 EST

We went to Ireland February 2015 intending to retire and purchase a house. We had cash. We departed Ireland June 2016 to return to Australia. Irish Real Estate is dysfunctional. We put in five offers, had four building inspections all to no avail. Read my posts on this forum. The main problem if one gets over building inspections, lack of building permits, false land boundaries, etc is the fact that it appears to take a long time to close a deal. When you pay a deposit and go 'sale agreed' this does not guarantee purchase (though if purchase does fall over your deposit is returned). One can go months before one actually signs a contract and at the very last minute the Vendor can change his/her/their mind and either sell to someone else at a higher price or try and get more money out of you. Each and every property we sold was owned by an overseas Vendor who had purchased during the Celtic Tiger, paid too much, prices had fallen and they refused to maintain their properties and the damp in Ireland plays havoc with buildings if left vacant/neglected. Here in Australia is a building report comes in with faults one can negotiate and reduce the asking price. We found in Ireland the attitude was 'take it or leave it'. As an aside to this, a couple of the properties we put good offers in on but after building inspection tried to negotiate but failed, were sold at far less than we offered. Footnote: Difference between Ireland and Australia - we arrived back 12 June, signed a contract to purchase 27 June, moved in 12 August. Opening a bank account can be tricky. Amazing really, you can walk in to a car dealer, pay cash for a car with no problem at all. Trying to open a bank account is tricky from the point that one of the things you need is a bill from an utility provider and unless you have been renting you don't get one. The banks do not take into account a mobile phone contract. We got over that hurdle by taking a few documents with us from Australia (cannot remember exactly how we pulled it off). The banks also do no pay interest on your money. Once we realised buying a property was not going to be a quick process, we ended up sending our house fund back to Australia to earn 3% rather than 0.01%. until we purchased (which of course did not happen). Also, we brought a letter from the insurance company stating we had a no claims history in excess of five years which saved us a fair amount of money on car insurance. We do have dual British/Australian citizenship which helped as we could use both as and when needed. To go back to the initial point on buying a house. I researched for a couple of years and thought it would be easy to purchase a property, how wrong I was. In hindsight we should have rented for a year (many problems with that, in general expensive and lack of decent properties to rent depending on where you intend to live) but as we thought we would have found a property within 3 months (how wrong we were!) and ended up going from pillar to post between holiday home lets (expensive) until for the last six months we found a place for six months at winter rates. Not sure if the above is helpful or not. The country is beautiful and we still miss a lot of aspect so follow your dream but take off the rose tinted glasses, expect it to be difficult and you will probably breeze through. All the very best. If you can cope with the intense rain (the weather was the second deciding factor to return Downunder) you will find a beautiful country. Give it a year and if it doesn't pan out for your at least you will have spent time in a beautiful country with great people. Good Luck!

William RussellWilliam Russell
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FlowerFairy
  2/13/2017 19:11 EST

In my spiel there is an "...each and every property we sold..." which of course should be "put an offer in"

FlowerFairy
  2/13/2017 19:22 EST

You will also need to obtain a PPS No. (Personal Public Service Number) which is easy enough to get. You need this to purchase all sorts of things (car, house, etc). We completed the application the best we could (we left gaps where we could not answer) while still in Australia and had no problem. Our PPS No. was sent to our Australian address.

dave8408e
  2/14/2017 07:46 EST

I'd say that if you're paying cash for a house, your credit history is irrelevant. I paid cash for mine, and nobody cared what my credit history was. Most problems in buying a home seem to occur due to unprofessional estate agents who often work this as a second job, and solicitors who fail to work in a timely manner. The best suggestion I can offer is to find and hire a good engineer to survey any property you like before you make a purchase. Estate agents work on behalf of the selling party, not you, so do not trust in their opinion of the quality of the home -- get independent advice. I'd rather spend €800 to find out the house I like has hidden faults than go in blind. You can probably recoup the cost of the engineer when negotiating the purchase price if there are faults that need correcting.

dave8408e
  2/14/2017 07:47 EST

I'd say that if you're paying cash for a house, your credit history is irrelevant. I paid cash for mine, and nobody cared what my credit history was. Most problems in buying a home seem to occur due to unprofessional estate agents who often work this as a second job, and solicitors who fail to work in a timely manner. The best suggestion I can offer is to find and hire a good engineer to survey any property you like before you make a purchase. Estate agents work on behalf of the selling party, not you, so do not trust in their opinion of the quality of the home -- get independent advice. I'd rather spend €800 to find out the house I like has hidden faults than go in blind. You can probably recoup the cost of the engineer when negotiating the purchase price if there are faults that need correcting.

William RussellWilliam Russell
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William Russell's private medical insurance will cover you and your family wherever you may be. Whether you need primary care or complex surgery, you'll have access to the best hospitals & doctors available. Unlike some insurers, we also include medical evacuation and mental health cover in our plans (except SilverLite). Get a quote from our partner, William Russell.

William RussellWilliam Russell

William Russell's private medical insurance will cover you and your family wherever you may be. Whether you need primary care or complex surgery, you'll have access to the best hospitals & doctors available. Unlike some insurers, we also include medical evacuation and mental health cover in our plans (except SilverLite). Get a quote from our partner, William Russell.
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FlowerFairy
  2/14/2017 07:50 EST

Agree. Though unlike here in Australia none of the vendors would negotiate. Even though we threw away the cost of four building inspections it was money well spent. The real estate industry in Ireland definitely needs regulating.

Joshuak
  2/15/2017 19:32 EST

You do NOT need a PPS number to buy a car or house, or open a bank account in spite of what some people might tell you. If you intend to stay, you probably should start the process to get one. It can take a month or more for that. But you do need proof of a residence in Ireland to get a bank account. It must be a letter or bill from a Irish government Agency, or a commercial business that is regulated by the Government. They usually will tell you to bring in a electric or telephone bill. But if you are just arriving, you would not have either of those yet. I called my car insurance agent and had him send a letter on the Insurance Company letterhead to my rental address via the Irish POST. Then they had to send it by POST into the bank headquarters in Dublin along with my application for "approval". 23 days later I received my starting kit via the POST and I went to the bank and deposited my money. I have no idea why it took so long. I told the bank Manager that I hated to compare, but in the US I could walk into a bank and come out 30 minutes later with a account, money deposited, and a brand new debit card ready to use at a ATM or shop. In other words, be prepared for the "snail race" of Irish bureaucracy.

FlowerFairy
  2/15/2017 19:41 EST

We definitely needed a PPS No. We were advised of same by a solicitor (hence making application prior to leaving Australia) we also had to produce a PPS No. when we bought our car, paid deposits and a few other things.

Joshuak
  2/15/2017 22:29 EST

FlowerFairy: I have a feeling someone took advantage of you telling you needed a PPS number in order to buy a car or many other things. If you had to borrow money to buy the car, then maybe you needed a PPS. I bought 2 cars while I lived there and PPS was not used at all. I leased a house in a retirement Village from a tax exempt company that was created for Irish retirees with no PPS number. I opened a bank account, registered for electric service for the house I rented, ordered phone and internet service, bought a mobile phone service, bought car insurance, registered for discount cards at 2 supermarket chains, all without a PPS card. It was never asked for. BUT, in order to get a TV license I had to apply for a PPS card. I had lived there 4 months before I knew I needed the TV license which was free for those over 65, but one still had to apply for it. If I had known seniors over 65 got free travel with that card (Says FT+S) I would have applied earlier. It can take well over a month to get the PPS number and card depending on where in Ireland you live. If the people that started this post are able to apply for that card/number before they move there, I suggest they do so if it is convenient. If not, you can get most things you need without it. A "solicitor" / Lawyer will be glad to take your money to do things for you, even if not required.

FlowerFairy
  2/16/2017 01:25 EST

Solicitor did not take one penny from me. I contacted him to ask about conveyancing fees etc and he very kindly advised re PPS and also onforwarded the application form to me. No charge. I will agree to disagree re PPS as we were asked for it quite often but we did not spent a penny to get one. As you know, PPS is your identity for financial matters when and if required.

William RussellWilliam Russell
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William Russell's private medical insurance will cover you and your family wherever you may be. Whether you need primary care or complex surgery, you'll have access to the best hospitals & doctors available. Unlike some insurers, we also include medical evacuation and mental health cover in our plans (except SilverLite). Get a quote from our partner, William Russell.

William RussellWilliam Russell

William Russell's private medical insurance will cover you and your family wherever you may be. Whether you need primary care or complex surgery, you'll have access to the best hospitals & doctors available. Unlike some insurers, we also include medical evacuation and mental health cover in our plans (except SilverLite). Get a quote from our partner, William Russell.
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Joshuak
  2/16/2017 15:41 EST

Sorry FlowerFairy, you need to ONLY consider the FACTS: First of all, the PPS number and card are only for use with the Irish Social Welfare system. It is not connected directly to the financial systems. Second, you cannot receive a PPS number from outside Ireland. If you received that number from the system at your Australian address, it was done in violation of Irish law. By Law, it is used for registration to work and your employer files with the tax people so the tax paid from your salary goes into the system to give you credit for paying the tax. It also is used for registration for a Irish medical card (if you qualify), and also for the EU travel medical card. I only received the EU travel medical card. Please try to understand, the PPS card has nothing to do with commercial financial transactions. It is strictly for Government use. If any commercial entity asked you for that number, it may be they have illegal plans for using your PERSONAL PUBLIC SERVICE NUMBER. In order to get the PPS, you need to prove you have a Irish home address. And you must have a reason to have that number. If a person is a Irish citizen, and over 65, they would get certain benefits from that card. One would be the TV license, another is free travel on the bus and train systems, another is a electricity credit every month, and a European Union Emergency Medical card for travel in other countries of the EU. Now, if you do not wish to believe what I tell you, please go to: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfaresystem/personal_public_service_number.html and look it up before you post false information. In other words, you don't know what you are writing about. In the US we have a SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER that is similar but used for financial systems also. Many commercial entities will ask for that number, but they may not have a legal reason to have it. That is why there is so much financial fraud here in US. I have no idea what you have in Australia, but probably something similar. Please do not base your thinking on either of those countries with the Irish PPS. They may not be even close to the same. LOOK IT UP !!

FlowerFairy
  2/16/2017 16:01 EST

Joshuak, with respect this is my last word but, with respect, a lot of what you say is nonsense. All the best.

KevinfromKinsaleviaNYC
  2/16/2017 16:11 EST

Joshuak, please stop being mean-spirited. We are all entitled to our opinions but your version of the "facts" do not necessarily align with the experiences of others.

Allow me to give you my experience with the PPS process.

When I purchased my home in ireland I was advised by EVERYONE I spoke with that I needed to register and receive a PPS number before I made the purchase. I was told that the reason was that the government needed to apply my stamp duty payment to a legal person in Ireland.

Next, regarding bank accounts, I applied for accounts with both Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Bank. BOTH of their application forms asked for my PPS number.

By the way, I applied for and received my PPS number ENTIRELY while I was in the U.S. Same with the bank accounts.

So say what you might about how the two largest banks in ireland AS WELL AS my solicitor and estate agent AS WELL AS the Irish Dept Of Social Protection ALL broke the law and ALL gave me the wrong advice.

You might stand a better chance of getting along with people on this forum if you stopped assuming that we are all idiots.

FlowerFairy
  2/16/2017 16:20 EST

Thank you KevinfromKinsaleviaNYC.

dave8408e
  2/16/2017 18:36 EST

I'll tell you this about PPS -- if you buy a house, you'll need a PPS number, because it's required to pay your property stamp sales tax to complete the transfer. As the gov't wants your money, they'll happily issue a PPS.

Joshuak
  2/16/2017 22:50 EST

Maybe you are supposed to have the PPS to pay the Government stamp fee, but I would bet they would accept the money without it. All I am pointing out is the FACT that if you look on the Government website I posted, PPS numbers sent outside Ireland were not obtained according to Irish law. And statements that the PPS was needed to buy cars and "other things" is just not true. Just read that website !! If you are non - EU or not a Dual, you better do everything by the book and not give them an excuse to deny you remaining. I agree with the requirement of 50K Euro income per person. Health insurance alone will be 1000 Euro per person, per month or more as retirees age. Ireland does not have any laws concerning pre-existing conditions. There will come a day when retirees from non EU may not be able to buy any insurance and the Irish Government will have to care for them if they allow them in with no conditions. Once you get the Irish passport, they would not let you die with no health coverage. As I posted before, Ireland does not need retirees that do not work or pay INCOME taxes. They will need young workers that pay taxes in order for the country to survive economically. And now that they require 100000 Euro income per retiree couple, they will start paying taxes on all income over 36,000 Euro. Ireland is not as cheap a country to live in as you think. I see postings here on this forum that ask about getting a job to supplement their pensions. That tells me the future for them does not bode well. My Wife and I never considered living the rest of our lives in Ireland, but we could if we wanted to. But we realized the healthcare costs would be a big problem in the future. Why do you not see many British retirees in Ireland ? You will see them going to Bulgaria and some to Hungary. Because the retiree costs are cheaper in those countries and both are in the EU. In my travels I met some Americans living in the Budapest area that tell me the cost of living is about 30% of the USA. I do not know the conditions of the immigration rules. One family told me their mother was from there so they have Dual status.
Do I think you are all Idiots ? No, but if you try maybe you could convince me. Ireland will not be Ireland as we know it if it fills up with immigrant retirees with low incomes. The native Irish are already complaining about people coming from other EU countries and sucking up the Social Welfare system and healthcare system. My neighbors where we lived for that year in the retirement village complained about having to wait for tests at the hospital and appointments to see their doctors due to EU people that moved there. You might not like what I am telling you, but it is what I saw in my times over there. Just look at the website I posted and you will see how to get a PPS card, and what it is to be used for.

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